Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Skydiver]

Hi Denise, my digi-box is what gives me access to digital tv and lets me have access to the internet at the basic level that's all
I'm sorry that my post spoiled Threads for you but i did put in spoiler space with the name of
the episode so i thought that was still ok, has
that changed now? or can i still use spoiler space but with maybe alot more space before i start to post?

that's ok tara. as long as you don't mind, if i catch spoilers that i stick in the tags for you

[Skydiver]

sometimes i think they're writing a different sam carter. a large part of the time, we have this member of SG-1, who just happens to be a woman and does all these things. Her gender is rarely an issue and what's more important is her doing her job


then with s7 we get them trying to write this woman who's a member of sg-1....the emphasis in some storylines is on her gender. and we got guys writing a woman who, probably totally unintentionally, write her how they'd LIKE her to be, not how she is.

they mary sue'd her a bit, wrote the perfect woman instead of writing a character who happened to be a woman

man, that is confusing, but i hope you get what i mean. no one set out to bash her or destroy her...they just didn't have a handle on writing a woman. It's the same way with tealc'.....when was the last time we saw them writing the man and not the jaffa????

The closest they ever came was affinity and teal'c didn't come off very good in that one.

the writers seem to be pretty good writing the characters when they're 'in the groove', ie jack in command, daniel translating, sam sciencing, teal'c jaffaing....but when it comes time to write jack the husband/father, daniel the action hero, sam the woman or teal'c the neighborhood stud then it gets a bit harder

not just for them but for us. they're taking characters we know and breaking them out of the mold

[hrh36]

,
man, that is confusing, but i hope you get what i mean. no one set out to bash her or destroy her...they just didn't have a handle on writing a woman. It's the same way with tealc'.....when was the last time we saw them writing the man and not the jaffa????

The closest they ever came was affinity and teal'c didn't come off very good in that one.

the writers seem to be pretty good writing the characters when they're 'in the groove', ie jack in command, daniel translating, sam sciencing, teal'c jaffaing....but when it comes time to write jack the husband/father, daniel the action hero, sam the woman or teal'c the neighborhood stud then it gets a bit harder

not just for them but for us. they're taking characters we know and breaking them out of the mold

Very well said! And I have the perfect solution.

Maybe the writers can kill two birds with one stone in writing convincing nonJaffa Teal'c and nonromance Sam by having Brad Wright write a "2 people in a room" story about Teal'c and Sam!

We've had Jack and Sam: Solitudes
Jack and Teal'c: Tangent
Jack and Daniel: Abyss
Teal'c and Daniel: Changeling and Orpheus

I liked all these episodes and I think they were all generally well-liked 'cause the characters came off well in them.

So now it's time for Sam and Teal'c dilemma/danger/storyline.

I think I'll head over to the Mallozzi thread to suggest this. Wish me luck.

hrh

[astrogeologist]

I want to start by saying that Sam is and always has been my favorite SG1 character and one of my favorite characters of all time, and that's mostly because of Amanda Tapping.

It's also because in spite of being written as an incredibly smart, talented, strong woman, Sam is also portrayed as a human being with faults, flaws and weaknesses.

Such mistakes give Amanda and the writers interesting material to work with, as long as they don't push it too far. I don't want to see Sam as an inadequate soldier or commander. I want to see her succeed often--she is my hero, after all. As you pointed out, she's got 2nd place in the number of on-screen hits to her credit. Heck, look at Death Knell. She kicked Super Soldier butt in that one.

In my opinion, they need to show her being more successful at command, at this point.

Yes, the vulnerabilities make her human... and therefore more real.. and not so much of a comic-book hero. The important point is that they maintain the proper balance - that they don't push the mistakes too far.

And I agree - I don't want to see Carter as an inadequate soldier or commander. Bring on the spunky and competent Carter that we saw in Foothold, Exodus/Enemies and so many of the other episodes cited earlier in this thread.

From a previous post: Life is about balance. Some folks (including AT, although not myself ) were getting tired of 'Super Sam' or 'Little Miss Perfect' Carter... so they've introduced some vulnerabilities and other such facets to her character... ok, fine... and AT was simply fantastic in Gemini and Grace and I thought both were wonderful episodes.

But life is all about balance... and the four original characters of SG-1 are supposed to be heroes... how much 'vulnerability or weakness' is appropriate? And how much should be revealed at one time? Balance does not mean 50-50... Entire post, with pics

sometimes i think they're writing a different sam carter. a large part of the time, we have this member of SG-1, who just happens to be a woman and does all these things. Her gender is rarely an issue and what's more important is her doing her job


then with s7 we get them trying to write this woman who's a member of sg-1....the emphasis in some storylines is on her gender. and we got guys writing a woman who, probably totally unintentionally, write her how they'd LIKE her to be, not how she is.

they mary sue'd her a bit, wrote the perfect woman instead of writing a character who happened to be a woman

man, that is confusing, but i hope you get what i mean. no one set out to bash her or destroy her...they just didn't have a handle on writing a woman. It's the same way with tealc'.....when was the last time we saw them writing the man and not the jaffa????

The closest they ever came was affinity and teal'c didn't come off very good in that one.

the writers seem to be pretty good writing the characters when they're 'in the groove', ie jack in command, daniel translating, sam sciencing, teal'c jaffaing....but when it comes time to write jack the husband/father, daniel the action hero, sam the woman or teal'c the neighborhood stud then it gets a bit harder

not just for them but for us. they're taking characters we know and breaking them out of the mold

Great post Skydiver! Nicely worded.

Great points, Astrogeologist. This makes alot of sense. Sounds like you are looking for balance for the character---get back to competent kick-butt scientist Carter as the most important part of her character. Your point about showing mistakes by the other characters is a good one too. I think they have all made mistakes, but Carter's lastest in Gemini stands out.

Well, the writers have a great opportunity to write Carter in season nine in a balanced way. Hopefully they will do that. And your right---AT has done such a good job playing Carter in a number of ways (e.g., competent, strong, independent, gentle, vulnerable, smart, funny, etc). She has had the opportunity to make the character three-dimensional.

I really have my hopes up that they will give us some great scenes of Carter leading competently in the field in Season 9.

As this thread has developed, the wonderful comments have made me remember great Sam scenes and lines that I had forgotten from earlier episodes. The polls (which are great fun) have made me re-evaluate my opinions on which episodes were the 'Best Carter Episodes'.

There have been
episodes where we got to see Sam the sharp scientist,
episodes where we got to see Carter the competent field officer
episodes where we got to see AT's wonderful acting range
episodes where we got to see the vulnerable, emotional side of Carter
episodes where we got to see the human side that makes mistakes
episodes where we got to see the side of Carter that isn't a battle-hard soldier
episodes featuring Carter's personal romantic life
episodes featuring the science-fiction development of her character
episodes where we got to see Sam's relationship with her father

• sharp scientist; e.g., A Matter of Time
• competent field officer: e.g., FIAD, Foothold
• AT's acting range: e.g., Grace and Gemini, but the list here is tremendously long
• the human side that makes mistakes; e.g. Red Sky and Gemini
• not the battle-hardened soldier; e.g., First Commandment
• personal romantic life; e.g., Grace, Chimera, Affinity, Threads
• science-fiction development; e.g., In The Line of Duty, Tokra, Jolinar's Memories
• relationship with Jacob; e.g., Secrets, Tokra, Jolinar's Memories, Enemies/Exodus, Threads

And after our discussion over the past couple of months, I now think that Foothold, is the best episode for showing competent, take-charge, kick-ass Carter - who yet comes across as approachable and human.


Taking action.

Standing up to Maybourne.

The human, vulnerable side - where the 'guys' convince her that she's just having drug-induced hallucinations. She relents and goes with them.

Shooting 'Jack' without hesitation and then holding strong in the aftermath.


Foothold showed a competent officer who coped with a dangerous first-time situation for Earth - aliens actually taking over the SGC. Carter's character was not referred to as girly or weak, but simply competent - she rose to the occassion admirably.

She also got to contrive a techie solution to jamming the alien's disguise-device.

And somehow it didn't come across as 'Super Sam' to me. In this episode, Carter simply came across as the competent scifi hero - I could see this role being played by any male lead of a science fiction show and they wouldn't have to change anything.
.
.
As we continue to critique the seasons for the best Carter episode, I keep comparing my choices to Foothold, an episode I now appreciate because of the discussions on this thread. To be honest, I hadn't seen Foothold in ages and much of it had faded in my memory before folks brought it up again here on this thread. But thanks to the insightful comments posted here by all of you folks, I realize now that Foothold is one of Carter's best episodes for positively portraying women on TV.
.
.

[astrogeologist]

Very well said! And I have the perfect solution.

Maybe the writers can kill two birds with one stone in writing convincing nonJaffa Teal'c and nonromance Sam by having Brad Wright write a "2 people in a room" story about Teal'c and Sam!

We've had Jack and Sam: Solitudes
Jack and Teal'c: Tangent
Jack and Daniel: Abyss
Teal'c and Daniel: Changeling and Orpheus

I liked all these episodes and I think they were all generally well-liked 'cause the characters came off well in them.

So now it's time for Sam and Teal'c dilemma/danger/storyline.

I think I'll head over to the Mallozzi thread to suggest this. Wish me luck.

hrh

Great comments hrh36! Some more Sam/Teal'c moments would be perfect - and an episode where they feature a Sam/Teal'c story would be great. I'd like to see something offworld where the two of them work together to solve a crisis or problem. Something where they get to remark on what they've seen in each other over the years... competency, bravery, valor, respect... such things.
.
.

[Skydiver]

Very well said! And I have the perfect solution.

Maybe the writers can kill two birds with one stone in writing convincing nonJaffa Teal'c and nonromance Sam by having Brad Wright write a "2 people in a room" story about Teal'c and Sam!

i would LOVE to see teal'c and sam's relationship explored. Ok, in fic, i'm a s/t romance junkie at times, but on the show, i love them together.

to me they're such perfect friends...not always close in the 'paint my nails' kind, but close in the 'i trust you with not only my life but my secrets as well'

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Just because Sam is my favourite character, and I have adopted the Sam thread as my home, and vote in the Sam polls, doesn't mean I don't like the other characters.

Um... Why does the onus have to fall on a Sam Thread to open Jack, Teal'c or Daniel polls?

I'm sure that not one person in this Sam Thread would object to a Daniel Thread-sponsored Fav Daniel eps poll and the same goes for the other characters. Why complain to "us?"

The reason I don't post in the Jack/thunk and Daniel/thunk kind of threads is because, well, I'm not a hundred percent sure about this, but I have a feeling they are more about appreciation of their bodies than their characters or acting.

<nods> I don't go there, either, and if this thread had turned into yet another shallow, hot babe thread I'd have dropped out long ago. Same as I would do if it turned into yet another ship thread.

I love the new Hathor screenshots Astrogeologist! After looking at your Solitudes pictures I decided to watch that episode again last night. And I think I might watch Hathor tonight .

I second that! You've made me want to pull out my old tapes and rewatch from season one.(I don't have tv, so I haven't seen a rerun in years.) You've made me realize that there are so many gems in the eps that I have forgotten.

So, yes, thanks, (((Astrogeologist))).

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

i would LOVE to see teal'c and sam's relationship explored. Ok, in fic, i'm a s/t romance junkie at times, but on the show, i love them together.

to me they're such perfect friends...not always close in the 'paint my nails' kind, but close in the 'i trust you with not only my life but my secrets as well'

Oh, goodness, so would I. C'mon, Chris Judge, next time you write for an ep, make it a Sam/Teal'c action/adventure/moral quandry type thing. I know you've got it in you!

Denise, you do Sam and Teal'c friendship(and... beyond ) so well! I can't really think of any other fic writers, off hand, that explore Teal'c and Sam.

[hrh36]

i would LOVE to see teal'c and sam's relationship explored. Ok, in fic, i'm a s/t romance junkie at times, but on the show, i love them together.

to me they're such perfect friends...not always close in the 'paint my nails' kind, but close in the 'i trust you with not only my life but my secrets as well'

Pardon me, I'm just getting my head around the picture of Sam and Teal'c "painting their nails" together!

Now there's an image. . . . Hmmm, I'd rather not go there.

But definitely agree with the trust you with my life and spill my guts to you part. Though we haven't seen Teal'c open up to Sam, have we? I'd loooove to see that.

Yep, I'd love Chris Judge to write the ep. I read in a con report though that he doesn't write for Sam 'cause he doesn't want to do the science research. Well, it doesn't have to be a science ep. Come up with some other imaginative scenario like you did to get yourself riding a fire truck in Changeling. I have confidence he could do it. And he wrote Sam real great in that ep.

hrh

[Coley]

Hi - I'm loving all the comment on Sams character regression/development!!!
I don't mind her making mistakes - but hate her been written as acting unprofessionally - I've heard about one such incident in season 8 - Sam just wouldn't do that. Plus one member of the thread suggested at the end of Chimera the writers should have included to Pete - in the end scene - "first we need to have a little talk about trust" That would have done!!

Though I guess it is easy to be wise after the event!

I prefer her kick ass mode - like astrogeologist.

I'm not quite sure I buy her being fooled by replicarter. In the past she's proven herself to be very shrewed - so a bit of a turn around!! I can't comment much as I haven't seen any of season 8 - Should I look forward to it or not?

[Skydiver]

Oh, goodness, so would I. C'mon, Chris Judge, next time you write for an ep, make it a Sam/Teal'c action/adventure/moral quandry type thing. I know you've got it in you!

Denise, you do Sam and Teal'c friendship(and... beyond ) so well! I can't really think of any other fic writers, off hand, that explore Teal'c and Sam.

smothers gracie in a hug
thanks sweetie

i joke that there are 6 whole sam/teal'c writers, but there really aren't that many. Adi, geonn...some of the daniel writers write sam/teal'c, but it's more of a 'ok, we gotta pair off j/d so s/t are left over' kind of writing at times

I'd love to see a sam/teal'c version of tangent, or maybe if they'd have written what happened with s&t on the planet in Fifth Race

[Coley]

Skydiver - watched parts of Serpents Venom thanks to you!!

Other great moments:

at the start, the Tok'ra are coming through the Stargate - Jack enters the control room

Jack - Tealc?
Sam - Tok'ra
Jack - Too bad

The writers have done this a few times spun three words starting with the same letter - In Chimera Sam and Daniel waiting for the lift. The doors open and there is O'Neill:-

Jack - Carter (a bit surprised)
Sam - Colonel (a little shiftily)
Daniel (yawning) Cofee!


Back to SV

Getting ready to leave on the mission Jack goes to help Daniel with his mountains of books

Jack - Sure you got everything? - slightly sarcastic
Daniel - You want to try and reprogram that mine without the proper translation?
Jack - Thought of a laptop?
Daniel - Well I have one - I just couldn't find Baxation? Venetion? symbology on cd on archaeology.com
Jack gently pushed Daniels glasses further up on his nose - which was quite sweet!!

On the ship Sam is reading Daniels books

Jack - Do you understand any of that?
Sam - It's all Venetion? to me sir!

The mine is onboard, wrong keying in has been made - the mine is about to go off. It is suggested that they release it

Jacob - If we release the mine now and it explodes the mission will be ruined
Daniel - And if we don't release the mine now we will be ruined

Sam has just figured out what they did wrong

Sam - Technology like this requires a zero
Daniel - Why
Sam - Trust me it's a math thing!

Some wonderful stuff in that ep - thanks for the reminder Skydiver!!

[Skydiver]

Um... Why does the onus have to fall on a Sam Thread to open Jack, Teal'c or Daniel polls?

it doesn't. if someone wants it, they can start it. I too don't care for the thunk threads simply because, well the few times i've been in there it's drooling. i'm not in the mood for drooling, i like to talk...err type

[Coley]

ChopinGal - Idioms are alive and kicking - this one's for you - and a bit of fun!!
Idioms part one:-

Everyone has pulled out all the stops and you're leaving no stone unturned in coming up with great Sam moments. Thanks to everyone who has thrown their hat into the ring regarding this. I'm certainly enjoying myself remembering all those great moments.

I've got to say it - this thread beats all others hands down - everyone is so positive! It is evident we have all been bitten by the same bug and think Sam knocks the spots off all other Sci Fi women.
It's not possible to sum her up in a nutshell. She had far too many facets to be able to do that without selling her short.
It's fair to say there are no flies on our Sam. She's a lady on the level - though it has to be said she sometimes plays it fast and lose with technology, but by and large she's head and shoulders above anyone at the SGC. Despite her superior intellect she's graceful and sensitive enough not to ride roughshod over anyone else's theories - she just patiently explains their shortcomings - apart from MacKay that is, to whom she usually gives short shrift - but lets face it Sam can often drive a coach and horses through his suggestions!
She has abundant patience with O'Neill to whom all science is just mumbo-jumbo!She's always right as nine pence and bright as a button.
She never has an axe to grind with anyone, but certainly sees red when dealing with NID rogues!

As sure as eggs is eggs you can bank on Sam when the red balloons go up. She is unflappable - even when things are hanging by a thread. There's no stopping her once she gets the bit between her teeth and by hook or by crook she'll solve the problem. She's willing to carry the can if things go wrong (Avenger 2.0) - but certainly pulls out all the stops to make amends. Even when things go down to the wire she never loses her nerve and always seems to save the day in the end.

Season 7 proved she's a bit of a dark horse and she's been hiding her light under a bushel. You've got to admit she was dressed to kill in Chimera in her bib and tucker - Pete was certainly in the bag. Now I'm no dyed in the wool shipper - but I certainly hoped that Pete would turn out to be a flash in the pan. Now I hear she has fallen for him hook line and sinker and it looks like they will be tying the knot. I bet all shippers out there are sorry that at the end of Chimera curiosity didn't kill the cat!!

Back to fave Sam moments - they will have to follow. You usually start this sort of task by trying to separate the wheat from the chaff first. Well I've gone through the process and Sam moments seem to be virtually all wheat and no chaff - which leaves me back at square 1!!

Congratulations on Amanda's nomination - You bring home the bacon girl!! Though I too wonder why she was supporting actress???!!!

Right I'm flat out of relevant off the cuff idioms and part 2 is off topic from this one! Must go and stoke the fire - it's brass monkeys outside!!

[deepspace]

I agree that we haven't had many episodes showing the friendship between Sam and Teal'c. Most episodes with Teal'c being a main character have been Jaffa rebellion episodes. It woulds be interesting if they explored their friendship in a life or death situation, or something similar.

Love everything you said about 'Foothold' astrogeologist. I watched it a little while ago, just before joining here, and it's definitely one of my favourites. And it sure shows the Sam I like most.
(and I love seeing those screencaps, over and over again!)

Tok'ra Hostess: I'm sure that not one person in this Sam Thread would object to a Daniel Thread-sponsored Fav Daniel eps poll and the same goes for the other characters. Why complain to "us?"

Polls for best eps for all the characters would be great, and I would certainly participate! All I was saying was that I wouldn't necissarily be able to think up something to say in the 'character appreciation' threads for the others on a regular basis, so therefore I only post here.

Tok'ra Hostess: <nods> I don't go there, either, and if this thread had turned into yet another shallow, hot babe thread I'd have dropped out long ago. Same as I would do if it turned into yet another ship thread.

If this had been one of those threads I would probably have never joined. Not that I'm saying I don't think Amanda/Sam is incredibly beautiful, only that I like discussing what she does more than anything. And I'm not anti-ship either, I just feel more at home here.

I love everyone's comments, it's giving me some different perspectives while rewatching season 1 on dvd.