Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[ChopinGal]

Re: Plot twist with Jacob Carter, RC, and Sam ...

I think that would be the most brilliant thing ever to happen in Stargate... I can TOTALLY see it alll!!!!

Spoiler:

That would be almost as good as Replicarter killing Jack!! Can you IMAGINE what Sam would go through...!?

I think I'm definately going to write a fic about that... a few years and it might be done!

BTW, are any of you guys Beta's at all???

Oh, yes, there's a good story in there for sure ... I may beat you to it!

As to being a Beta ... explain, please. Still fairly new at all this and I'm thinking that these Beta persons are proof readers for fanfic? Am I right? How does one become a Beta? Is it like becoming a Phi Beta Kappa?!

[ChopinGal]

What do you think about adding Hathor to the list? It was the first time we saw Sam leading a team into combat, and I loved the gals vs. guys scenario.
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The writing was sharp in that episode. Sam had some really good one-liners ... especially when she was about to break out of their cell with Janet and, later, when she knocks Hammond out!

AstroG, I just know you'll be able to provide the exact quotes and maybe a couple screen caps?! Please, please ....

[ChopinGal]

....we could do it by season, let everyone vote on the best sam episode of each season, then take those 7 winners (or 8) and let them run against each other to get the best sam episode over all

I think you're on to something here. That makes good sense - and it would narrow the range. I'm okay with this - what does everyone else think?!

[Skydiver]

I was thinking, i could set the poll to run a week each. That way everyone should have a chance to get their votes in.

question, should it be one vote per person or should i allow more than one? LIke maybe everyone can pick their 3 favorites in each season

[astrogeologist]

I was thinking, i could set the poll to run a week each. That way everyone should have a chance to get their votes in.

question, should it be one vote per person or should i allow more than one? LIke maybe everyone can pick their 3 favorites in each season

Wow - so many great ideas!

I *really* like the idea of folks being able to vote for more than one episode... for their top three or some such!

And I think folks will need at least a week or two to get their votes in (sometimes folks go out of town for a week or so).
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[lucylou]

Hiya,

I'm another person who thinks that Sam's a great character. I think its great to see such a strong and intelligent female character in a military role who's portayed with such strength but also with so much emotion and depth and feeling. Sam's so complex and Amanda is so good at portraying her in a way that shows strength and vulnerability at the same time. The emotional growth of the character has been an amazing part of the show to watch and I can't wait to see more of it as the show continues.

Lucy

[astrogeologist]

Hiya,

I'm another person who thinks that Sam's a great character. I think its great to see such a strong and intelligent female character in a military role who's portayed with such strength but also with so much emotion and depth and feeling. Sam's so complex and Amanda is so good at portraying her in a way that shows strength and vulnerability at the same time. The emotional growth of the character has been an amazing part of the show to watch and I can't wait to see more of it as the show continues.

Lucy

Welcome aboard Lucylou!

I agree that the 'strength and vulnerability at the same time' is a major part of what makes Carter an admirable character who is, at the same time, endearing. Few actors can accomplish such a portrayal!
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[MajorSam]

WELCOME Lucylou!!!!

Always glad to get another person! Come often, post more!!!

Oh, yes, there's a good story in there for sure ... I may beat you to it!

As to being a Beta ... explain, please. Still fairly new at all this and I'm thinking that these Beta persons are proof readers for fanfic? Am I right? How does one become a Beta? Is it like becoming a Phi Beta Kappa?!

Yeah, A beta is a proof reader, editor, helper type person. To become one, I guess when people look around for a Beta, just... say you're one, and there ya go, Beta! (Yeah, that's just my understanding)

Regarding the whole voting thing, i think it should be for the three top

[ChopinGal]

Hiya,

I'm another person who thinks that Sam's a great character. I think its great to see such a strong and intelligent female character in a military role who's portayed with such strength but also with so much emotion and depth and feeling. Sam's so complex and Amanda is so good at portraying her in a way that shows strength and vulnerability at the same time. The emotional growth of the character has been an amazing part of the show to watch and I can't wait to see more of it as the show continues.

Lucy

Welcome Aboard from across the pond! Hope you stay with us and post some more.

Yes, AT gives a three-dimensional reading of the character at all times and that's why she's one of the best actors out there in that vast wasteland of TV.

[ChopinGal]

... Yeah, A beta is a proof reader, editor, helper type person. To become one, I guess when people look around for a Beta, just... say you're one, and there ya go, Beta! (Yeah, that's just my understanding)

Regarding the whole voting thing, i think it should be for the three top

When you wrote this, I thought of Harlan, clapping his hands and saying "Kumtraya!"

I can see AstroG or me clapping our hands and saying "Beta!"

And voting for our three top episodes sounds good - that's across all the seasons, I'd presume; otherwise, we'd be getting too high in the numbers again, right?

[lucylou]

Thank you for the welcome everyone! As a big Sam and Amanda fan I will deffinately be posting here more often!

I was wondering, there has been so much negativity in various places about Sam and her relationship with Pete. What do you all think of it? I personally don't mind it. I know I'm probably in a minority but I think it's good that they're not showing Sam pining for Jack all the time and having her experiencing a relationship with someone else. I used to be a die hard shipper but I don't seem to be so much anymore. I'm all for character development and giving the actors and actresses on the shows a chance to portray all the aspects of their characters that they can and I love the fact that through Sams relationship with Pete we get to see a whole new side of her that we wouldn't have seen if she was just there pining for Jack. It gives a whole new emotional depth to the character that just wouldn't have been explored if it hadn't been for Pete and I personally think that it's good that they chose to explore the character that way. If they want to keep her a believable military officer there's no way she could be with Jack unless one of them leaves and through bringing in Pete we've learnt a whole lot more about her. It gives us more to relate to and it gives Amanda some great material.

Lucy

[astrogeologist]

Thank you for the welcome everyone! As a big Sam and Amanda fan I will deffinately be posting here more often!

I was wondering, there has been so much negativity in various places about Sam and her relationship with Pete. What do you all think of it? I personally don't mind it. I know I'm probably in a minority but I think it's good that they're not showing Sam pining for Jack all the time and having her experiencing a relationship with someone else. I used to be a die hard shipper but I don't seem to be so much anymore. I'm all for character development and giving the actors and actresses on the shows a chance to portray all the aspects of their characters that they can and I love the fact that through Sams relationship with Pete we get to see a whole new side of her that we wouldn't have seen if she was just there pining for Jack. It gives a whole new emotional depth to the character that just wouldn't have been explored if it hadn't been for Pete and I personally think that it's good that they chose to explore the character that way. If they want to keep her a believable military officer there's no way she could be with Jack unless one of them leaves and through bringing in Pete we've learnt a whole lot more about her. It gives us more to relate to and it gives Amanda some great material.

Lucy

Well put! And I think that that's why they brought in a boyfriend for Sam. To round her out... to give her character depth... to give AT a wider range for her acting talents... I was all for the idea of a boyfriend for Sam - and I still am... in fact, I think they should have made references to occassional dating thoughout the series - for all of the 4 main characters. That said, I didn't like the morning bedroom scenes in Chimera - where Pete demands information she can't give him... and then he storms out... and then follows her to the stakeout. IMHO, those final scenes were poorly written for the ramifications to the character of Sam Carter.

I also don't think that they should have written the whole Pete engagement scenes (Affinity)... They are detracting from the wonderful female character that they constructed over 6-7 years on the show. The character of Sam Carter will only get so much screen time... they need to redirect their focus back onto her professional competency and heroism.
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[NearlyCircular]

Hiya,

I'm another person who thinks that Sam's a great character. I think its great to see such a strong and intelligent female character in a military role who's portayed with such strength but also with so much emotion and depth and feeling. Sam's so complex and Amanda is so good at portraying her in a way that shows strength and vulnerability at the same time. The emotional growth of the character has been an amazing part of the show to watch and I can't wait to see more of it as the show continues.

Lucy

Good to hear from you lucylou!

I've been rewatching the 1st season, and you're exactly right about the growth of the character. Comparing her then to now is interesting. She looked so young and naive back then, and now you can see more of a battle-hardened warrior. But she still has some of those characteristics that made her so interesting from the beginning: her strength, her scientific curiousity and wonderment, and yes, her vulnerability is still here. And of course, Amanda has done an excellent job showing them all throughout.
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[MajorSam]

When you wrote this, I thought of Harlan, clapping his hands and saying "Kumtraya!"

I can see AstroG or me clapping our hands and saying "Beta!"

HAHAHAHAA, that's hilarious because that's DEFINATELY something I would do... Kumtraya OR beta!!! (I actuall DO do the Kumtraya thing with some people... haha)

Thank you for the welcome everyone! As a big Sam and Amanda fan I will deffinately be posting here more often!

I was wondering, there has been so much negativity in various places about Sam and her relationship with Pete. What do you all think of it? I personally don't mind it. I know I'm probably in a minority but I think it's good that they're not showing Sam pining for Jack all the time and having her experiencing a relationship with someone else. I used to be a die hard shipper but I don't seem to be so much anymore. I'm all for character development and giving the actors and actresses on the shows a chance to portray all the aspects of their characters that they can and I love the fact that through Sams relationship with Pete we get to see a whole new side of her that we wouldn't have seen if she was just there pining for Jack. It gives a whole new emotional depth to the character that just wouldn't have been explored if it hadn't been for Pete and I personally think that it's good that they chose to explore the character that way. If they want to keep her a believable military officer there's no way she could be with Jack unless one of them leaves and through bringing in Pete we've learnt a whole lot more about her. It gives us more to relate to and it gives Amanda some great material.

Lucy

Dear lord is Pete a touchy subject... We have talked about ship throughout this thread, but I can't remember if we ever had a full-on discussion about Pete... Have we? I'm sorry if we have, but I don't remember talking about it, so here's some of my take on it all.

At first, I liked Pete. I thought he was nice, caring, honest, and basically ok for Sam. I still maintained my fierce devotion to Sam/Jack, however. With Sam/Jack there’s been SOO much history. Then one episode they slam down a whole new guy Sam is suddenly sleeping with. That I didn’t like. Yes, there was the whole convo. in Grace, but I don’t like how just two episodes later she’s doing some random Cop.

He’s a friend of Mark’s. I’m going on assumptions here, but I don’t think Mark likes the military at ALL, so has probably been pressuring Sam into getting a nice normal b/f for sometime. Did she just all of a sudden give in? I don’t think so. Sam doesn’t like letting other people trying to get her to do things she doesn’t want to. She always tries to do everything herself, applying her knowledge, learning new things. Why can’t that apply to boyfriends as well? I’d think she would just go out and look for one herself, if she really wanted one, rather than taking the easy way out and giving in to Mark.

Pete was all nice and cute. He doesn’t push Sam about what she does, or how she can’t get away from it to go “bowling” or whatever. Curiousness like that is something I would expect from anyone outside the SGC dating Sam. However, I started seeing things I didn’t like when he took her to the dance. A fancy dance, with a bunch of old people. “It’s nice knowing some people still stay together no matter what, isn’t it?” That is SUCH a harsh set-up’ped hint. He can already tell that Sam isn’t fully invested in the relationship, and so he’s trying to, what, guilt her into it? I dunno, I just didn’t like how he did that.

Then, she hops in bed with him. I don’t know anything about Sam’s ways of dealing with relationships, but she doesn’t seem to me to be a bed-hopper. We don’t know how long they’ve been going out, but it can’t have been THAT long. 2 episodes, remember. As well though I myself am not an expert on adult dating patterns.

The next morning, he just leaves her in bed when she can’t tell him more about what she does. He doesn’t believe that she’s doing something important enough that he could get hurt having the knowledge. If he really liked her, wouldn’t he have let off for a while longer? Guys usually don’t just leave their girlfriends in bed after their first night together. He does a huge speil about trust, and then goes and calls up the FBI. Yes, Sam doesn’t know about this, but still, regarding Pete, I think that’s just WRONG. Caring concern only goes so far for me.

TPTB, if they wanted to bring in a nice bit of normalcy for Sam should have brought in an actual normal person, not someone who’s suspicious and does background checks on people, like SO many people in Stargate already do.

If I were Sam, by now I would be having serious doubts about things. And then he pops up at the stake-out. Um... HELLO!?!? After continues, purposeful withholding of info. From Sam, he stalks her down to a VERY dangerous situation. He potentially could have messed up everything, and caused harm to Sam, her team, and maybe even let Osiris out. Sam should have dropped him right then and there. She would never Accept that kind of crap from ANYONE on her team, or working with her, or just…anyone. She’s an accomplished military officer, who does not accept anyone putting anyone on her team in danger. Can you honestly see her saying to herself “oh well, he’s not in the military, so he wouldn’t know or understand about it” He’s a Police officer. He knows exactly, and understands it perfectly.

No, she just says “oh dear, my Petey’s hurt, after stalking me down to a showdown with a system lord. Well I’ll have to tell him everything then!”

Um… WHAT!?!?!? I really didn’t like that. I thought they completely went against everything that they’ve been trying to bring Sam to be.

Spoiler Affinity

Spoiler:

Now after Affinity, they’re engaged. I strongly believe that they are just not compatible for marriage! Amanda has said herself, at the very least, Sam would never have accepted his proposal in a work-situation, right after something major has happened, after which she starts makin out with him! That’s unprofessional, and just plain wrong.

I also don’t think they have the right qualities, or compatibilities to go with each other.

In relation to Sam/Jack. (I’ll try to keep Sam/Jack preaching out of it!) Some people are shippers, some aren’t, some don’t care. However, from what I can ascertain, every one of those groups acknowledges that there is ship there. We’ve seen through the years how Sam deals with everything that’s come up with her and Jack. She takes relationships seriously, and she takes Jack seriously. He respects her, trusts her, has seen her at her best, he’s seen her at her lows. He can read her mind when needed, and they work with the best teamwork you could ever hope to get. Sam reciprocates these feelings. With Pete, she doesn’t, or at least not that we’ve ever seen. Unless there have been some MAJOR stuff with them off-screen, Sam would know it too. With bringing in Pete, they’ve made her way more of a “Pining away” than she ever has been with Jack.

If they do resolve Sam and Jack, it will show how Sam survived through all the years with her dignity and pride of Jack. She was able to push aside her feelings to get more important things done. Like Saving the Earth! It shows how, with all the things thrown at her, she was still able to maintain professionalism, and hasn’t betrayed herself at all. If they got/get Sam and Jack together, I think it will show how her selflessness, and everything else, has paid off. Her sometimes pain will have been worth something. She wants something, she fights for it. Waiting is another form of fighting, against one’s own desires and needs. With Pete I think she’s betrayed these ideals she’s been upholding for years and years.

Aaaaand now I think I’ve gone on for quite a while now, and should probably let others butt in and say what they think. I think that with the involvement of Pete we definitely have learned more about Sam, but I don’t like what we’ve learned. I think they completely went the wrong way with Pete though. My views might change with Threads and Moeby, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

I hope that all made sense and that I didn’t get TOO off the Sam focus. I’m not smushing anyone else’s opinions, diversity is one of the joys of the net. I’m just very passionate about mine.

Lucylou, i'm in no way trying to shut you down or anything. please post more about your thoughts on Pete and Sam, i'm always interested in seeing what people who like Pete see and think.

MSam

(Holy CRAP was that a massive post... If anyone actually read the whole thing, WOW, thanks!)

PS. I can't find where I said about rounding Sam out... I think we've definately got insights, yes, and Amanda has done a fabulous job, but I wouldn't say she's "rounded out" It's added depths and understandings and stuff, but not in a positive for Sam way. Amanda's afraid of becoming known as "Jack's Girl" like we've all said, we, at least, would never think of Sam that way. Pete, IMO, has done way worse damage to her. Countless of the Sam-haters I see go on and on about how Pete's destroyed her. It's one of their main reasons. I'm not taht extreme, I adore Sam and welcome all new insights, even if I don't personally like what they say about Sam.

[Starfury]

Note: This was originally posted in the "Amanda Tapping's Best Performance" thread. I reposted it here because it's more on-topic in this thread.

I want to start by saying that Sam is and always has been my favorite SG1 character and one of my favorite characters of all time, and that's mostly because of Amanda Tapping.

It's also because in spite of being written as an incredibly smart, talented, strong woman, Sam is also portrayed as a human being with faults, flaws and weaknesses.

In "Gemini" [spoiler tags added]

Spoiler:

she made a mistake, but they all did and hoped that they could avert the replicators getting to this galaxy. they were all at fault there, you cant lay it all on carter. oniell should have ordered them to destroy replicarter immediately but they all underestimated her cunning, and needed to take the chance in order to gain an advantage over the replicators.

While I agree that the fault does not lie solely with Carter, I do think it lies primarily with her.
Gemini

Spoiler:

Both O'Neill and Teal'c wanted to kill Replicarter from the start; Sam convinced them not to. Then once Carter and Teal'c were at the Alpha Site with Replicarter, O'Neill and Teal'c continued to warn her of the danger. Carter is Teal'c's CO, therefore the decision to kill Replicarter had to come from her or O'Neill. O'Neill wasn't there; he was relying on Carter's judgement. She persuaded him to trust Replicarter. And she was wrong. She let her personal feelings--her connection with Replicarter--be manipulated. She played right into the enemy's hands as Replicarter knew she would. You can argue all you want about her reasons, but bottom line, she was wrong, and her error of judgement put the galaxy in danger. So she's right to blame herself. I don't see that she's beating herself up unduly about it at this point.

in "Emancipation" she didnt let him live out of compassion, she let him live because it was worse for him to live having been beaten by a woman. she was tottally capable of killing him, but he would have been getting off too easy that way.

I disagree. Soldiers don't let a mortal threat live because killing them would be "too easy," (except in movies where they do all sorts of idiotic things) (and I don't think that's what Sam was doing in this case either). They kill the enemy before the enemy has a chance to kill them. Carter had no reason to believe that Turghan wouldn't just turn around and kill her, or that once they left he wouldn't just start brutalising his women back into submission. His past pattern of behavior indicated that the latter would have been more likely. I'm inclined to think that it was simply pathetic writing, but from a characterization point of view, it came off as Sam being reluctant to kill someone who was and realistically continued to be a mortal threat to her as well as the women of his tribe...the man was perfectly willing to stone his own daughter to death to protect the status quo, and she's gonna trust his word that he'll let it change just because she beat him? I don't think so. As a soldier, the smart thing to do would have been to kill him. But it's a lot easier to pull the trigger of an automatic weapon and mow your enemies down in combat than it is to do it "up close and personal". Sam wasn't ready to do that (see "The First Commandment" for another such incident). And while that's not necessarily a bad thing for Sam as a person, as a warrior and a soldier, it was the wrong move.

Carter is not weak at all. A true warrior doesnt just kill everything unfeelingly anyways, thats what a psychopath does, a true soldier or warrior, does what is neccasary, kills where neccasary, but when possible, finds a better way to achieve the mission objective. if that involves killing than thats what you do, but you dont enjoy it, or want to kill, you do it because you have to kill. if you do want to measure strength in body count though, there was a website i found like two years ago that had body counts for the team through season 1-5 and it went oniell, carter, teal'c, daniel. so she still is the second most efective warrior on the team

Yep, looking for reasonable alternatives to killing is good practice and good strategy, however, it must be based on an accurate assesment of risk vs. potential gain. I think that is not the case with the examples above. Sam let her feelings about the situation get in the way of a calculated, strategic decision.

Again, I don't think that's an indication of poor characterization (except in the case of Turghan in "Emancipation"). I think it's good characterization, for two reasons: it shows that Sam isn't always perfect, and with a character as universally adept as Sam Carter, that's important, because it makes her more realistic and more human. Real people do make mistakes. Soldiers do make errors of judgement (and tragically, people often die as a result). And they have to live with the consequences. And that's reason #2 why I think it's good for the character: Such mistakes give Amanda and the writers interesting material to work with, as long as they don't push it too far. I don't want to see Sam as an inadequate soldier or commander. I want to see her succeed often--she is my hero, after all. As you pointed out, she's got 2nd place in the number of on-screen hits to her credit. Heck, look at Death Knell. She kicked Super Soldier butt in that one.

In my opinion, they need to show her being more successful at command, at this point. But even if they choose not to, if they decide to say "you know what, this is the 1 thing in the entire universe that Sam's not cut out for: she's a great 2IC but she isn't the best commander on the block, OK?" I could live with that. I wouldn't like it because she has been shown as an effective leader many times in the past, but I could accept it because like I said, I don't need or want Sam to be perfect at everything. That's not what I love about her.