Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I only watched Heroes once, but I was under the impression that the Janet/Daniel action was taking place quite a ways from the gate, whereas the Sam/Jack action was taking place near the gate. Did anyone else have this same impression?

First impression (because I only got to see it once) was that Sam and co. were fighting in open flat land while Janet and co were on an incline in a wooded area.

Anyone care to clarify? AG, got any pics of these scenes?

[astrogeologist]

First impression (because I only got to see it once) was that Sam and co. were fighting in open flat land while Janet and co were on an incline in a wooded area.

Anyone care to clarify? AG, got any pics of these scenes?

Don't have any pics... but my memory agrees with your TH... I seem to remember trees around Daniel and Janet, but Sam, Teal'c and Jack were out in a clearing or some sort... with rocks (or ruin pieces) to use as 'cover'. The Jaffa that Jack got up after was off in the trees...

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

We *have* seen Sam get angry and pissed off... and even express it

You're right, AG. Thanks for reminding us of those marvelous scenes.

I was just trying to think of a way they could have had Sam react Jack getting shot that would not have seemed so... controversial, as it turns out. :/

IIRC, Sam did just run over to Jack and hover. She didn't feel for a pulse, try to pull him away or even get down out of the line of fire, herself. I just think the scene could have been better done.

[ChopinGal]

I read Blue Feather before I was aware that Sam bashing was a popular sport in some circles. I was totally taken aback... What bitter vitriol! It seemed pretty clear to me that the author had some kind of vendetta against Sam.

I only watched Heroes once, but I was under the impression that the Janet/Daniel action was taking place quite a ways from the gate, whereas the Sam/Jack action was taking place near the gate. Did anyone else have this same impression?

Welcome Strix, I have read the Knife's Edge and it was a wonderful tag to Desperate Measures, very well written and clever. Looking forward to reading more of your work soon. Do you have a website?

Regarding Blue Feather, did you interpret the story itself as "bitter vitriol", or the comments and summary by the author?

[NearlyCircular]

Welcome to our world, Strix! My impression of the scene in Heroes was the same as yours. I think part of it was the terrain issue that Tok'ra mentioned and also by the fact that they were using the radios to communicate. Even before SG1 came, when Wells got hit, I believe he was some distance from Dixon.

NC

[chocdoc]

Actually, I'm surprised that they've allowed Sam to be shown as holding it together so well - to be honest, I would have expected male writers to have written Sam-the-woman as losing it... getting hysterical... or throwing a temper tantrum... or just generally being bit*hy in times of stress or anger. So, I've been very pleasantly surprised that they haven't done these more stereotypical scenes for Sam. I've been impressed that they've let Sam hold it together with class -even when someone like McKay is a total a$$, Sam was allowed to handle it with reserve and a little humor. Very classy.

A part of me wonders if AT hasn't had a hand in this facet of Sam Carter's character... AT has made a point of trying to protect Sam from a lot of the stereotypical 'how females are written and portrayed' scenes. And AT wants to portray women on the screen in a positive fashion.

It's not that I don't want to see Sam get angry, I'm just *very* very afraid of how badly such a scene could be written... and then shredded by the Sam-bashers.. and the folks who just can't handle a strong female character.

Completely agree with you here. I think Sam definitely holds things together very well.

A scene that some sam bashing has taken place is Sam's anger toward Dr. Lee in Paradise Lost. Some fans claimed that this expression of anger and frustration (which I thought AT did beautifully), shows that she is incapable of being a leader, and that she will not have respect from others around her. So, yes, it is dangerous for Sam to show any kind of emotion for some fans--they want her to be in the background.

For me, this scene was fabulous---AT's face showing frustration and her voice was amazing to me. If Jack, Daniel, or Teal'c had expressed the same level of frustration---this would have been interpreted that the character has such depth and passion.

[astrogeologist]

You're right, AG. Thanks for reminding us of those marvelous scenes.

I was just trying to think of a way they could have had Sam react Jack getting shot that would not have seemed so... controversial, as it turns out. :/

IIRC, Sam did just run over to Jack and hover. She didn't feel for a pulse, try to pull him away or even get down out of the line of fire, herself. I just think the scene could have been better done.

Yes - it would have been great to see her 'keep her game face on' and kneel down beside him while sending rounds off at the Jaffa. Then maybe see her drag him over behind a rock and then resume firing for a moment and then snatching a moment to assess his injuries/status. But the way that they filmed that entire battle scene just didn't lend itself to giving Sam a chance to display any of that. They just showed Jack getting up... and it looked pretty lame - almost like 'shoot me', but that's because we can't see the whole picture. And Sam's 'scene' is so short - all you get to see is her going 'Colonel' and falling to her knees beside him. And in that short few seconds, her attention is completely on him. And that's all we get to see of that! It sort of reminded me of the lame scene in The Nox, where Jack is shot, so Sam yells 'Colonel' as she moves towards him and out from behind her cover and the Jaffa easily kills her. Errr... can I say that I didn't like that scene either?

[astrogeologist]

Completely agree with you here. I think Sam definitely holds things together very well.

A scene that some sam bashing has taken place is Sam's anger toward Dr. Lee in Paradise Lost. Some fans claimed that this expression of anger and frustration (which I thought AT did beautifully), shows that she is incapable of being a leader, and that she will not have respect from others around her. So, yes, it is dangerous for Sam to show any kind of emotion for some fans--they want her to be in the background.

For me, this scene was fabulous---AT's face showing frustration and her voice was amazing to me. If Jack, Daniel, or Teal'c had expressed the same level of frustration---this would have been interpreted that the character has such depth and passion.

Great example, chocdoc!

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

The writers may be bending over backwards to keep Sam from being the stereotypical emotional female, as Sky said. IMO the last 2 seasons they've done a lot of damage to Sam in this regard, on the personal level at least.

Another reason might be that as a woman in the military, Sam would be used to keeping it all inside. She wouldn't dare show her emotions to her colleagues, for fear of losing face not only for herself, but for all women in the armed forces. However, since this is a television show, and they show us the characters outside their work environment at times, the writers could have shown us how she felt when she was off duty or alone.

Do you suppose this could also be another case of the mostly male writing staff showing the female as responding the way that they would like a woman to act? It's certainly easier to deal with a woman(or man) who accepts whatever happens without reacting badly.

NC

Good observations/questions.

First off, <sigh> I just cringe when that "s" word comes up - stereotype. That's a Sam basher special, in my experience. So is "cliche."

And, yes, I think the writers are a little too bent out of shape by political correctness to write Sam's emotions honestly - or, at least, consistently.

And this from someone who cuts the PTB a lot of slack.

Jack b*tches. Teal'c cries. Daniel has fits.

Women don't b*tch? We don't cry? When did we start being such impassive towers of emotional blandness? Am I not getting my memos, again?

This week, in Canada, four young men, RCMP officers(US equivalent is the FBI I'd guess) were killed in the line of duty. I saw high ranking officers, male and female, break down and cry in public. I saw the security guard who alerted the RCMP to the problem visibly shaken; he admits to having survivor's guilt and can't work, he can't sleep since that awful day - and he wasn't even there when the men were killed!

I did not consider, for one moment, that any of them were weak. Anymore than I consider myself weak for shedding a tear for these strangers and their families.

I have military men in my family who complain loudly, in long, strong, strings of invective (otherwise known as b*itching) who throw things, like boots, pieces of machinery that refuse to work, and, yes, even fits.

If real people in the police and the military show emotion, why shouldn't Sam be allowed to?

I won't argue that Sam wants to do well by women in the force, and also that her emotional makeup is such that she doesn't get all emotional all the time. But when fans bash Sam for those few times when she does react as being a stereotypical hissy, hussy, b*tch and all sorts of other negatives, I can't help but think, "hypocrite."

<grrrr> I haven't had to defend Sam's character in a long time. Just one more reason why I love this thread.

[ForeverSg1]

To date, I think that they have allowed Sam to handle her anger and frustration with class. Maybe she goes home and kicks holes in the gypsum sheetrock walls of her house and then spends the next couple of days repairing the wall? Or maybe she goes off on her motorcycle and let's it rip on some trails. Maybe she goes to the firing range and takes it out on the targets? Or maybe she just goes to the gym and beat the crap out of a punching bag? A few short, no-dialogue scenes like that could be a classy way to handle showing Sam's anger without allowing much chance for the Sam-bashers (or women-haters) to stuff her into the 'bit*hy-box'.

I wasn't trying to imply that we haven't occassionally been able to see Sam blow-up or become angry. It's that she doesn't seem to hold any grudges whatsoever. It's like at the end of the day, she just lets everything slide off of her back.

I would love to see Sam in the gym beating the tar out of a punching bag inorder to let off some steam after an really bad day. Throw a wrench across her lab, something...anything. I really don't know how she managed to deal with McKay without hitting him. The man was nearly slanderous. The fact that she allowed herself to be spoken to in that manner or that her superiors allowed it to even happen was infuriating to me.

I agree that the way she behaves is a very good way to live life; it's not good to bottle things up and carry a hatred for someone forever, but being tortured or kidnapped by someone should really push those limits.

I don't consider myself a very vindictive person, but if someone hurt a member of my family, or tortured one of my children... I would come unglued. I don't even know if I have it in me to forgive that person let alone forget what they did and move on with my life. I honestly don't know how Sam can go through everything she has over the past eight years and keep her sanity let alone her compassion and ability to forgive.

But perhaps that's why I love this character so much, because she is far great person than I have ever hoped to be.

ForeverSG1

[NearlyCircular]

Ok, screen caps from Heroes 2. The first four are obviously of the battle scene, and note the level ground apparently all around and trees in the background. The second four are of Janet and crew, first of all having to run into the woods, then clearly on a slope, working on Wells.







NC

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Ok, screen caps from Heroes 2. The first four are obviously of the battle scene, and note the level ground apparently all around and trees in the background. The second four are of Janet and crew, first of all having to run into the woods, then clearly on a slope, working on Wells.

[

Thanks, NC. I had tried to explain this to a bunch of Sam bashing fans on another list, back when the ep aired, but I was told that the lay of the land was pretty much the same for both groups. My memory not being what is was(... I thnk... can't remember... ), I couldn't argue the point. But these pics clearly show that the two groups were nowhere near each other.

[jckfan55]

A scene that some sam bashing has taken place is Sam's anger toward Dr. Lee in Paradise Lost. Some fans claimed that this expression of anger and frustration (which I thought AT did beautifully), shows that she is incapable of being a leader, and that she will not have respect from others around her.

These are probably the same people who would see no problem with Jack almost killing the zealot in Red Sky in a fit of rage. Don't get me wrong, I thought that was a great scene. But using it as an example, I doubt there were calls for Hammond to remove him from command for that little outburst.

[astrogeologist]

Every new cast member makes me afraid that Sam/Amanda is going to be pushed aside.
I know they're reinventing Stargate, but please don't forget Sam...

I completely commisserate with you MajorSal... I'm feeling much the same way... Sam was (is) such a great character... (hmmm... great name for something?)... at any rate, Stargate and AT created something special with the character of Sam Carter over the first several seasons. A hero with depth, humanity and admirable qualities in abundance. The writing for Sam's character over the past couple of seasons has divided the fan base... and turned some fans away from the character... while others have rallied around for support. For the overall health of the character within the larger scope of the Stargate universe and fanbase, I hope that they can write Season 9 storylines that appeal to a wider audience in a positive manner for the character... storylines that generate the sort of general fan positive approval that we saw from so many of the early season Sam-centric episodes.

As for pushing Sam/Amanda aside, it certainly appears as if they are prepared to be able to write stories either without Sam/AT or with Sam/AT as a minor, secondary character. We can't know what the complete impact of AT's new baby will be on what AT feels that she can put into filming each week.

I was hoping that Season 9 would bring us back into an overall 'balance' of storylines for the character of SC.... with some Season 9 heroic scifi storylines to balance some of the heavy weight and impact of the personal soap-opera storylines of Seasons 7 & 8. I still have hope... even though I know that so much is dependant on factors that I just don't have control of (or knowledge of). But I still have hope... even when I get cynical and depressed about what seems to be happening with my favorite character... I still have hope... that in the *next* episode.......

[NearlyCircular]

Yes - it would have been great to see her 'keep her game face on' and kneel down beside him while sending rounds off at the Jaffa. Then maybe see her drag him over behind a rock and then resume firing for a moment and then snatching a moment to assess his injuries/status. But the way that they filmed that entire battle scene just didn't lend itself to giving Sam a chance to display any of that. They just showed Jack getting up... and it looked pretty lame - almost like 'shoot me', but that's because we can't see the whole picture. And Sam's 'scene' is so short - all you get to see is her going 'Colonel' and falling to her knees beside him. And in that short few seconds, her attention is completely on him. And that's all we get to see of that! It sort of reminded me of the lame scene in The Nox, where Jack is shot, so Sam yells 'Colonel' as she moves towards him and out from behind her cover and the Jaffa easily kills her. Errr... can I say that I didn't like that scene either?

It's funny that you should mention that scene with the Nox. As I was looking at the transcripts for Heroes, the "author" included comments, and here they are along with the dialog and description of the action.

"Grenade launched at Jaffa. Jack sees a Jaffa moving through the trees to his left.<can't be sure But I think this is the same one that moves in on Janet and Daniels position.> Jack gets up to go for him when a staff blast hits him square in the abdomen. Slow motion from here on.Blast knocks Jack.


SAM: *real slow* sir! *gets up* <Okie she does this every time.One that really sticks out. The Nox> Teal'c looks over.but continue to fire. Jack hits the ground, slow <this is a great shot because> just beyond him we see the pel'tac coming round again.He's out. Eyes shut not moving. Still slow motion we see more Jaffa being shot as Dixon looks over to Jack, Sam rushes to his side as time returns to normal. He's still not moving and we can see the smoke moving off him."


I do agree with both of you about the scene with the Nox. It's another scene that just didn't feel right.

NC