Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[ForeverSg1]

This is really bringing up some interesting thoughts. When I rewatched Reckoning part two the other night spoilers for s8's reckoning 2

Spoiler:

and Sam had activated that wall to pull away and her and Jacob went into the chamber, I was wanting to yell out to Sam to not go in there... because I was scared.

And it showed *me* that I wasn't cut out to do what Sam does. I honestly think I would have been done in in the second season with Jolinar's rape (what else can you really call it?). I really wonder if Sam 'would' be able to go on with everything that had happened to her over the years? That's one of my irks with the writing that all those emotional/physical abuses Sam's been through have been glossed over. Look what they did with Jack and his experience in season 6's Abyss. (i'm babbling ) Anyhoo, I guess the point of this post is that I'm not as strong as Sam is... and would anyone 'really' be that strong and resilient? Have the writers done Sam Carter a disserve?

Sally

The thing about Sam that makes her experiences so utterly different and perhaps a bit annoying at times is that she appears to be so completely forgiving and understanding about everything.

With every obstacle in her life she seems to gractiously just accept it and move on without any residual affects; no distrust or disliking for those involved. As MajorSal said in her quote, Sam is virtually raped by Jolinar but after the initial shock of it all, she accepts it and moves on. We never see any distrust from her and the Tok'ra (well other than Anise).

She is blended a second time in Nightwatchers and again just shrugs it off as if it were nothing.

In Desperate Measures, she is used as a lab rat by Adrian Conrad and yet when Sam sees his dead body on the Prometheus we really see no reaction from her. One would have thought that seeing the man who was responsible for her abduction would have caused some sort of mental flashback, angst, something.

In New Order, Sam is kidnapped and tortured by the replicator Fifth, but in Gemini when Sam speaks of Fifth it's with pity and regret in her voice. There is no heat, no show of pain. In fact, we see her almost excuse his actions due to the fact that he is child-like and has feelings for her.

However, each of the other main characters have had story arcs written into their characters that lasted many years. We've seen them struggle in dealing with feelings they have towards specific people. We've seen their anger, pain and frustration in dealing with people who have wronged them.

Over the past eight years, we have seen Teal'c expose his feelings for Apophis: his utter hatred of all the things Apophis did to him. We saw the pain and hate in his eyes each time he had to deal with Tanith, and we felt his raw desire to avenge Sho'nac's death by killing Tanith with his own hands.

Jack has openly worn his dislike and distrust for people on his sleeve. We hear him voice his discontent with any and all situations. We see him verbally attack and question the Tok'ra, the Tollan, Kinsey, ect. We watch him mock Baal continually and see him gloat when Baal is forced to come to him for help.

We see Daniel kill all the symbiotes in Bloodlines for what has been done to his wife Share. We see him deal with his anger and frustration for Teal'c after Share is killed. Since his ascension we have seen Daniel question and become frustrated with Oma and the ascended way have dealing with things. In Full Circle, we watch Daniel frustration reach a breaking point when he goes against all the rules of Ascension and attacks Anubis. In Threads,

Spoiler:

he doesn't just accept that he's dead again and take the path of enlightenment once more;

he pushes, questions and delves to find answers he needs.

Each of the other characters have spent years dealing with deep seeded emotional issues, yet one of the few we have been allowed to see with Sam is one of frustration for not having a boyfriend, a relationship, a family. We
were lucky with Sam in the beginning seasons, we did get to see her delve somewhat in dealing with Jolinar and her father, but over the years they've been steadly putting Sam into a position of eager acceptance or repressive denial, and neither in my opinion has allowed Sam to grow and change in a positive manner.

I know AT's new baby may unintentionally change the way we see Sam on screen. There is a possibility that she may not be the SoldierSam that she has been in the past, but the writers still have a great opportunity to really do some great thing with Sam. My only fear is that with all the new characters, and especially a new male character, that too many of the new storylines will revolve around them and Sam will once again become a filler character as she was in season six. I can accept no Sam in the first five episodes, but without Jack in season nine, I'm not sure if I can accept a water-downed version of the Sam we have come to know and love.

ForeverSG1

[Skydiver]

you do have a point. they seem to ignore sam's emotional impacts. such as jolinar, who's been pretty much ignored for a few years. and the conrad situation

i mean, doesn't sam ever get royally pissed off?

or maybe they're too afraid of making her the 'emotional female' that they write her with a lot of self control? maybe they make her more emotionally stable than the boys while also allowing the boys to emote to make them more human

course, you know, if they fulfilled all those emotional bits on the show what would we write about????

[Skydiver]

it's been an hour and there's been no posts? my goodness the samandans are busy

LOL

ok, here's bruce, croped from astro's lovely caps

[ChopinGal]

you do have a point. they seem to ignore sam's emotional impacts. such as jolinar, who's been pretty much ignored for a few years. and the conrad situation

i mean, doesn't sam ever get royally pissed off?

or maybe they're too afraid of making her the 'emotional female' that they write her with a lot of self control? maybe they make her more emotionally stable than the boys while also allowing the boys to emote to make them more human

course, you know, if they fulfilled all those emotional bits on the show what would we write about????

NC and Sky, great back-to-back posts on Sam's emotions and how the darker emotions are shown by the guys, but Sam seems to weather her storms and move on in calmer waters.

Now that she's coming back for a S9, maybe it will be time to allow Sam to better express her darker side ... drop the defenses and let 'er rip! She was getting ready to do just that when she walked the beach in The Light and O'Neill grabbed her and shook her. Of course, she was under the influence of an alien technology. I'd love to see a scene where she's just good and angry and doesn't give a damn about the consequences at the time. I'd love to see her male teammates react to her in that situation.

Well, S9 is starting to film, baby is almost here, and Spring is coming ... so, before you know it, Amanda will be back in front of the cameras in late May and doing her thing. Let's see what happens!

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

it's been an hour and there's been no posts? my goodness the samandans are busy

Ah, a whole hour sans post. That explains how I was able to get caught up so quickly.

As to One Flew Over the Stargate, LOL!

Maybourne in drag as Nurse Ratchett??!! Now there's a vision ....

Oi!

Blue Feather: Never read it but thanks for the heads up. I can't stand politific.

Could that Heroes scene have been better written/played? Yeahsureyabetcha. I'd have liked to see Sam react as she did, run over to Jac - as she did - but then notice the Jaffa that Jack seemed to have been heading toward. She could have grit her teeth, grabed at her radio to say, "Teal'c, the Jaffa have made Janet's position!" and then taken off after them, full of anger and hate, with Teal'c on her tail.

This scene could have been interpreted any way the fans would have wanted it to; ship or non-ship. Sam could have shown anger at Jack getting shot, her worry for her friend as well as for Daniel and Wells, and it would have let Sam let out steam, in line with that other discussion about how little Sam gets to react to bad stuff.

[astrogeologist]

We *have* seen Sam get angry and pissed off... and even express it

- she told Maybourne off with some of the best 'tell 'em off lines' I think I've ever heard:
"Maybourne, you are an idiot every day of the week!
Why couldn't you have just taken one day off?!"

- she got pissed off and disgusted with McKay... and told him to 'Go suck a lemon'... beings that he said he was deathly allergic to citrus and all. .. and he'd made abrasive comments about the lemon chicken...

- she got angry and disgusted with Jack when he wouldn't talk about Daniel's death
- and she told Teal'c not to give her any of the 'way of the warrior crap'

- she told off the General in 'Chain Reaction' when she found out that they had been withholding information from her... and then she simply walked out on him at the end, refusing to even acknowledge his apology

- she got pissed and cranky with Dr. Lee in Paradise Lost

- she told off the videographer as he accosted her in the hallway after Janet was killed in Heroes.

And I'm sure that the folks with better memories than mine can cite more examples than what my feeble memory has access to

All in all, I have to say that I like how they've shown Carter on this front - displaying and/or managing her anger. Why do I like what they've done? Because they've shown her handle it with class.. a little humor... and dignity and intelligence. And, folks, we *so* need to see a few of our top female heroes portrayed in this type of favorable light. OK, so it's probably not realistic... but the last thing we need is any more fodder for the Sam-bashers and anti-shippers (who often appear to be one and the same). And, frankly, I'm afraid of how it might come off if they let Sam act petulant and bitterly angry and blindly-grudge-holding as they write Jack. I don't like it in Jack - and don't understand the folks who think it's cute - or admirable.

To date, I think that they have allowed Sam to handle her anger and frustration with class. Maybe she goes home and kicks holes in the gypsum sheetrock walls of her house and then spends the next couple of days repairing the wall? Or maybe she goes off on her motorcycle and let's it rip on some trails. Maybe she goes to the firing range and takes it out on the targets? Or maybe she just goes to the gym and beat the crap out of a punching bag? A few short, no-dialogue scenes like that could be a classy way to handle showing Sam's anger without allowing much chance for the Sam-bashers (or women-haters) to stuff her into the 'bit*hy-box'.

I hope they keep Sam as they have with respect to her anger-management. Let the guys look childish and vengeful - the fans will accept it better than they will if Sam were to do it.

----

That all aside, I would like to say that I agree wholeheartedly that I'd like to see more of Sam dealing with the fallout of Jolinar. I'd like to see Sam working Goa'uld tech like the hand device and the healing device - and emotionally dealing with how that makes her feel. I'd also like to hear and see more of the effects of Jolinar's memories on Sam. Hopefully, they won't make Sam a Tokra in Season 9... and maybe we can still have an episode of two that has references to, and/or repercussions from, Jolinar's legacy.

And, I agree, that the format of 42-minute weekly shows do not allow the writers to satisfy both the fans who want fast-paced action with lots of imminent peril... with the slower-paced drama of angst and emotional fallout. I'm a fan who likes both... and I watch a variety of different types of shows.
.

[MajorSam]

Hey Everyone, hope everything's going well! I'm just popping in to say I'm off in just a few hours!!!! I'll try to get on as much as I can, but if not, then ((((((((Samanda)))))))) Hope you all have a good next few weeks, if Amanda has baby... I'm with you guys at the party in Spirit!!! I hope to have tons and tons of pages when I get back. I really regret not being able to get into the amazing discussions the past week or so, but I have read everything. Once I get back... I'll try to get on more, and into those more!!!!!

Have fun, see you in a while, I'll miss you all very much!

MSam

[deepspace]

Just as I get back the president is leaving. Hope you have a great trip Majorsam.
Hi again everyone. Time for me to go read... lots of pages.

Coley, Oh yea we say times: Wanted - How to Speed Read by I. Z. Decevus - respond to Deepspace

ROFLOL! Me! Speed read! Hah. I am in fact the slowest reader I’ve ever met! People are always astonished at how slowly I get through books.
--deepspace

[NearlyCircular]

Great discussion of the way that Sam's dark side emotions have or haven't been shown on screen! Emotion wise, the writers seem to do a good job of writing a grieving Sam and a concerned Sam. There have been very few times we've seen a pissed off Sam, mentioned by astrog, but overall, she's been shown as the "good soldier". It's probably a combination of several things, most of which you've already mentioned.

As astrog mentioned, it is a science fiction show, not a soap opera, so they can't dwell on emotional fallout too much. But as has been pointed out, they have shown the guys having to deal with their problems, beginning with the original movie, so why not do the same for Sam?

The writers may be bending over backwards to keep Sam from being the stereotypical emotional female, as Sky said. IMO the last 2 seasons they've done a lot of damage to Sam in this regard, on the personal level at least.

Another reason might be that as a woman in the military, Sam would be used to keeping it all inside. She wouldn't dare show her emotions to her colleagues, for fear of losing face not only for herself, but for all women in the armed forces. However, since this is a television show, and they show us the characters outside their work environment at times, the writers could have shown us how she felt when she was off duty or alone.

Do you suppose this could also be another case of the mostly male writing staff showing the female as responding the way that they would like a woman to act? It's certainly easier to deal with a woman(or man) who accepts whatever happens without reacting badly.

NC

[astrogeologist]

Great discussion of the way that Sam's dark side emotions have or haven't been shown on screen! Emotion wise, the writers seem to do a good job of writing a grieving Sam and a concerned Sam. There have been very few times we've seen a pissed off Sam, mentioned by astrog, but overall, she's been shown as the "good soldier". It's probably a combination of several things, most of which you've already mentioned.

As astrog mentioned, it is a science fiction show, not a soap opera, so they can't dwell on emotional fallout too much. But as has been pointed out, they have shown the guys having to deal with their problems, beginning with the original movie, so why not do the same for Sam?

The writers may be bending over backwards to keep Sam from being the stereotypical emotional female, as Sky said. IMO the last 2 seasons they've done a lot of damage to Sam in this regard, on the personal level at least.

Another reason might be that as a woman in the military, Sam would be used to keeping it all inside. She wouldn't dare show her emotions to her colleagues, for fear of losing face not only for herself, but for all women in the armed forces. However, since this is a television show, and they show us the characters outside their work environment at times, the writers could have shown us how she felt when she was off duty or alone.

Do you suppose this could also be another case of the mostly male writing staff showing the female as responding the way that they would like a woman to act? It's certainly easier to deal with a woman(or man) who accepts whatever happens without reacting badly. NC

Actually, I'm surprised that they've allowed Sam to be shown as holding it together so well - to be honest, I would have expected male writers to have written Sam-the-woman as losing it... getting hysterical... or throwing a temper tantrum... or just generally being bit*hy in times of stress or anger. So, I've been very pleasantly surprised that they haven't done these more stereotypical scenes for Sam. I've been impressed that they've let Sam hold it together with class -even when someone like McKay is a total a$$, Sam was allowed to handle it with reserve and a little humor. Very classy.

A part of me wonders if AT hasn't had a hand in this facet of Sam Carter's character... AT has made a point of trying to protect Sam from a lot of the stereotypical 'how females are written and portrayed' scenes. And AT wants to portray women on the screen in a positive fashion.

It's not that I don't want to see Sam get angry, I'm just *very* very afraid of how badly such a scene could be written... and then shredded by the Sam-bashers.. and the folks who just can't handle a strong female character.

[NearlyCircular]

Yes astrog, you're right. If they did show her as angry very often, we'd hear not only the B word by the bashers, but "this is why women shouldn't be in the military," and even if not spoken out loud, there would be the inevitable "must be that time of the month"

NC

[Uber]

Actually, I'm surprised that they've allowed Sam to be shown as holding it together so well - to be honest, I would have expected male writers to have written Sam-the-woman as losing it... getting hysterical... or throwing a temper tantrum... or just generally being bit*hy in times of stress or anger. So, I've been very pleasantly surprised that they haven't done these more stereotypical scenes for Sam. I've been impressed that they've let Sam hold it together with class -even when someone like McKay is a total a$$, Sam was allowed to handle it with reserve and a little humor. Very classy.

A part of me wonders if AT hasn't had a hand in this facet of Sam Carter's character... AT has made a point of trying to protect Sam from a lot of the stereotypical 'how females are written and portrayed' scenes. And AT wants to portray women on the screen in a positive fashion.

It's not that I don't want to see Sam get angry, I'm just *very* very afraid of how badly such a scene could be written... and then shredded by the Sam-bashers.. and the folks who just can't handle a strong female character.

I just saw the "Timeline to the Future: Legacy of the Gate" and it was interesting how AT talked about some of the lines she was originally given as Sam Carter - she said that women don't talk that way... She also pointed out that the writers were originally forcing her into what she termed as a woman's libber who needed to prove herself to the guys, which she felt was a tired scenario. She felt that it was more interesting to have her as just an integral part of the team who, oh by the way, was a woman. I tend to agree.

Regarding the emotional sides of the character: You all may have noted by my sig that I am a Jack/Sam shipper. However, this does not mean that I need a bunch of soppy romantic sequences. As someone pointed out earlier (NC I think), this is not a soap opera...it's a scifi show! I didn't fall in love with Stargate because I want Jack and Sam to get together in the long run, I fell in love with Stargate because it's a well-crafted science fiction show with a great mythology, a strong ensemble cast and superb special effects.

That being said, how many times have we seen shows come and go that had super special effects, but the characters were flat and one-dimensional? They are practically a dime a dozen. But with Stargate, the characters are multi-dimensional - they are heroes, they are soldiers, they are scientists, and they are also friends and lovers and sons and daughters and fathers. I loved the show where General Hammond retired because of his concern for his grandkids (Chain Reaction, I think)... it made connect to him because I got to see more of him than just "open the iris."

I like seeing the other sides of the characters, their softer sides. I like seeing aspects of their personalities and characters that we wouldn't necessarily see if they went offworld and kicked Goa'uld butt every week. To me, seeing some of their emotional failings or character flaws or attractions or whatever...this all just makes me more connected to the show and to the characters because they aren't super beings. They have feelings and lives beyond travelling to P4X-595. They have family and friends and relationships and they have struggles maintaining the balance in their lives.

Why not explore the other characters personal lives more? Does Daniel live in an emotional bubble? I'm not a humongous Daniel fan, but I hope they explore that side of his character a little. Same with Teal'c and Isht'a. I want to know more about their families and interests and lives - because it makes the show about the people and not about the special effects. Again, I'm not saying make it ALL about the emotional/interpersonal relationships (this isn't "As The Stargate Turns"), but the theme can be woven into the storylines to add that extra dimension.

Now, granted, we see more of Sam in this particular role, more than likely because of the whole Sam/Jack dynamic that TPTB feels it must address periodically...like the whole thing with Pete, etc. But her strengths on the battlefield/her shortcomings when it comes to interpersonal relationships all make up Carter, who is a superb character and I wouldn't change a thing about her.

/ Mary Beth takes bow, steps off soap box

[NearlyCircular]

I didn't fall in love with Stargate because I want Jack and Sam to get together in the long run, I fell in love with Stargate because it's a well-crafted science fiction show with a great mythology, a strong ensemble cast and superb special effects.

That being said, how many times have we seen shows come and go that had super special effects, but the characters were flat and one-dimensional? They are practically a dime a dozen. But with Stargate, the characters are multi-dimensional - they are heroes, they are soldiers, they are scientists, and they are also friends and lovers and sons and daughters and fathers. I loved the show where General Hammond retired because of his concern for his grandkids (Chain Reaction, I think)... it made connect to him because I got to see more of him than just "open the iris."

I like seeing the other sides of the characters, their softer sides. I like seeing aspects of their personalities and characters that we wouldn't necessarily see if they went offworld and kicked Goa'uld butt every week. To me, seeing some of their emotional failings or character flaws or attractions or whatever...this all just makes me more connected to the show and to the characters because they aren't super beings. They have feelings and lives beyond travelling to P4X-595. They have family and friends and relationships and they have struggles maintaining the balance in their lives.

Very well stated! I was a Star Trek fan for almost the entire run of the franchise, partially because it was one of the few scifi shows available at the time, but also because I did like the writing and characters. But, it doesn't resonate with me the way that SG1 does, mainly because of what you've stated here. (And if I'm honest, because there was no character like Sam ) In the Trek universe, things seemed almost too perfect, and most of my favorite episodes there were ones that highlighted the personal interactions between the characters. But maybe we're not the "typical" science fiction fan, whatever that is.

NC

[Strix varia]

Blue Feather: Never read it but thanks for the heads up. I can't stand politific.

I read Blue Feather before I was aware that Sam bashing was a popular sport in some circles. I was totally taken aback... What bitter vitriol! It seemed pretty clear to me that the author had some kind of vendetta against Sam.

I only watched Heroes once, but I was under the impression that the Janet/Daniel action was taking place quite a ways from the gate, whereas the Sam/Jack action was taking place near the gate. Did anyone else have this same impression?

[astrogeologist]

Hiya Strix! And welcome aboard!
So glad to see you joining us and posting with us!
Strix is a great SG-1 fanfic author who writes great Sam-whump stories.
I highly recommend 'The Knife's Edge of Madness' to anyone who hasn't had a chance to read it! It's an AU ending to Desperate Measures... something requests were posted for awhile back in our SaGC thread.

Skydiver had a great welcome message:

'Grab some blue jellow and an orange t-shirt and make yourself comfortable'...

and

*Wake me when Sam gets back*

Other SaGC mottos and quotes that you will find posted on the walls:

"Welcome to MY life!" (which has to be said with a knowing grin)

And on the SaGC firing range, the targets each have the following across the top:
"Maybourne, you are an idiot every day of the week!
Why couldn't you have just taken one day off?!"

Posted on the SaGC locker room door:
Y’know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water!
Next up: parting the Red Sea.

On the wall of the SaGC gym/workout room:
You have untapped greatness inside you
.

I read Blue Feather before I was aware that Sam bashing was a popular sport in some circles. I was totally taken aback... What bitter vitriol! It seemed pretty clear to me that the author had some kind of vendetta against Sam.

I can't remember if I read that fic or not, but after the comments on this thread over the past day or so... I'm definitely not going back to look at it now... don't need to read Sam-bashing. We did, however, have a respectful and thoughtful discussion about the possible origins of Sam-bashing and such a few pages back... mumbles to self and wanders into the SaGC archives...which are growing... may have to ask (plead) with the Royal Accountant for the funds (beans) to purchase an annex or a new and larger storage facility.... ... ah, yes, here it is... sam-bashing was discussed around in thread pages numbered in the late 80's to early 90's... and I did a summary of sorts on page 92, post 1831.

I only watched Heroes once, but I was under the impression that the Janet/Daniel action was taking place quite a ways from the gate, whereas the Sam/Jack action was taking place near the gate. Did anyone else have this same impression?

I couldn't tell who was where.. I couldn't get a clear picture of the set-up or who was where or how things were positioned relative to each other.
.