Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[chocdoc]

Unfortunately there is a really big double standard for what is good for the male characters of Stargate(television) and what is good for the females. I started thinking about it more after I listened to MS at the Dallas convention Con today. A fan asked him if 'Daniel was ever going to get a woman'. MS's response was Daniel has had many women as well as been had by many women. He then went on to say that he hoped a relationship for Daniel was not in the works and that he didn't want one.

In the first couple of years, Daniel's character was used as a sperm donor for Hathor and Jack's character was pretty much drugged, married and sexually involved with someone he had known for only minutes.

In eight years time, Sam has been with one man and one man only.

If Sam's character had been sexually violated as the men had been, they're would have been an uproar. If she had been with as many men as Daniel has women, she would have been called a slut. For the past year she's been attacked because she made the decision to either follow her heart and betray her duty to be with Jack...or follow her head and betray a man with whom she doesn't solely love. It just seems to me that the writers have put Sam into a position where nothing she does will be good enough on a personal level.

For a man in the case of Daniel, it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a full-time relationship, because he can be involved in sexual and/or preverse relationships like that with Vala and at the end of the day, he's a stud for getting the hot chick.

Maybe I'm a bit off base here, it's just something that I've been mulling over the past few hours.

ForeverSG1

I think you are right. There is a clear double standard here. Sam is seen by some as a character who carries an adolescent crush on her boss, and in the meantime leads another guy on--uses him. Of course others interpret her behavior totally differently. She knows she cannot be with Jack because they are too loyal to SG1 and Stargate command, but she wants to experience love in her life (oh how dare she), she really likes Pete and it feels good to date someone and be serious, yet she ends up realizing that this is not the guy for her.


You're right---Sam has only had one man in eight years. The male characters can do anything they darn well please.

I've been thinking that it is easy to put all the blame on the writers in regard to sam's personal side---but maybe some of the problem lies in some of the fans' biased perceptions of what men and women should be allowed to do and how their actions are interpreted. I do think a there is a gender bias that is operating here as well.

[ChopinGal]

Unfortunately there is a really big double standard for what is good for the male characters of Stargate(television) and what is good for the females. I started thinking about it more after I listened to MS at the Dallas convention Con today. A fan asked him if 'Daniel was ever going to get a woman'. MS's response was Daniel has had many women as well as been had by many women. He then went on to say that he hoped a relationship for Daniel was not in the works and that he didn't want one.

In the first couple of years, Daniel's character was used as a sperm donor for Hathor and Jack's character was pretty much drugged, married and sexually involved with someone he had known for only minutes.

In eight years time, Sam has been with one man and one man only.

If Sam's character had been sexually violated as the men had been, they're would have been an uproar. If she had been with as many men as Daniel has women, she would have been called a slut. For the past year she's been attacked because she made the decision to either follow her heart and betray her duty to be with Jack...or follow her head and betray a man with whom she doesn't solely love. It just seems to me that the writers have put Sam into a position where nothing she does will be good enough on a personal level.

For a man in the case of Daniel, it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a full-time relationship, because he can be involved in sexual and/or preverse relationships like that with Vala and at the end of the day, he's a stud for getting the hot chick.

Maybe I'm a bit off base here, it's just something that I've been mulling over the past few hours.

ForeverSG1

First of all, you went to your first scifi con today!! Wow - good for you! Hope this doesn't rule out GABIT in London though!

So write more about the day and your experience - did you get to see or hear Teryl Rothery? I still miss her character so much.

I think you just made some good points. I didn't ever stop to think about the guys' sexual adventures through the seasons ... the scorecard certainly isn't even, is it? You're right ... it seems that Sam has only been with Pete the way she has been written. What if the tables were turned? The old double standard seems to be alive and well ... and it's still the woman who gets more harshly judged.

[NearlyCircular]

Unfortunately there is a really big double standard for what is good for the male characters of Stargate(television) and what is good for the females. I started thinking about it more after I listened to MS at the Dallas convention Con today. A fan asked him if 'Daniel was ever going to get a woman'. MS's response was Daniel has had many women as well as been had by many women. He then went on to say that he hoped a relationship for Daniel was not in the works and that he didn't want one.

In the first couple of years, Daniel's character was used as a sperm donor for Hathor and Jack's character was pretty much drugged, married and sexually involved with someone he had known for only minutes.

In eight years time, Sam has been with one man and one man only.

If Sam's character had been sexually violated as the men had been, they're would have been an uproar. If she had been with as many men as Daniel has women, she would have been called a slut. For the past year she's been attacked because she made the decision to either follow her heart and betray her duty to be with Jack...or follow her head and betray a man with whom she doesn't solely love. It just seems to me that the writers have put Sam into a position where nothing she does will be good enough on a personal level.

For a man in the case of Daniel, it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a full-time relationship, because he can be involved in sexual and/or preverse relationships like that with Vala and at the end of the day, he's a stud for getting the hot chick.

Maybe I'm a bit off base here, it's just something that I've been mulling over the past few hours.

ForeverSG1

The double standard is certainly in existence here. I think part of it is that for decades, television creators have assumed that the typical audience for scifi is predominantly young and male, and have written to appeal to what that group of fans wants (or what the writers think they want.) In a typical series, there's usually room for only 1 or 2 heroes and of course they're male. There were sometimes female guest stars, but they usually served as romantic interest for a male star. Any regular female characters were in supporting roles, (Can you say "Hailing frequencies open"?) and maybe had a featured role once a season. When we turn on a scifi show, unfortunately, we've come to expect that. It's not surprising, then, that viewers who have come to expect action and nothing but action in scifi (including the girl on every planet variety), are confused when they encounter something like the last 2 seasons of SG1. Television writers just don't seem to know how to write a female character unless they inject some soap opera material. In SG1, I think they've done a better job than any scifi show ever, but obviously, not everyone agrees.

BTW, if you understood the Star Trek reference, I'm not knocking Uhura here. I think that character was a pioneer in scifi television and was one of my favorite characters at the time.

NC

[astrogeologist]

BTW, if you understood the Star Trek reference, I'm not knocking Uhura here. I think that character was a pioneer in scifi television and was one of my favorite characters at the time.

I definitely caught and understood the ST Uhura reference... and I believe that Nichelle Nichols was going to quit the series because she was given so little to do (amongst the boys), but someone very well known (I'm forgetting who it was right now) told her that with any such role in a major network TV series, she was advancing the exposure and expectations and future possibilities for black women everywhere. So she stayed... even with the scripts that gave her so little to do... and even though she felt like more of a piece of the props or settings. As the years passed and Star Trek grew into an empire with a legacy, I think she became proud of what she was a part of. For myself, I feel that she deserved so much more from the scripts and the series... but those were the times. She was a groundbreaker.
.

[ForeverSg1]

I was just getting ready to hit send and post this when I saw ChopinGals most recent post here - perfect timing!
I think I can see the different ‘sides’ and opinions of what has happened to the character over the years. The next question becomes, where does the character go from here? Have the writers sacrificed Sam Carter on the altar of ship and personal relationships over the past couple of seasons? I think that Season 9 will answer that question. What they come up with to deal with RDA’s and AT’s absences will probably dictate the direction and future for Sam Carter. Will they sacrifice Colonel Carter for S/J ship? In other words, will they write Carter as giving up her post on SG-1, and perhaps her commission in the Air Force, to pursue a relationship with Jack?

Wow, what a volatile question…! I would assume that there would be lots of S/J shippers who wouldn’t care if Sam gave up her commission – as long as Sam and Jack were together. But other shippers, e.g., MajorSam, have stated earlier in this thread, that that’s not the way that they want to see Sam and Jack get together.

I know that we really just have to wait and see… but I sincerely hope that the writers can find a way to make good on what they’ve seemed to promise in Threads – without sacrificing Colonel Sam Carter in the process. Or am I asking for too much?
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I totally feel the same way as MajorSam. I would really love to see Sam and
Jack together, but not at the detriment of the team or Sam's career. I know
many shippers would love to see AT come back next year pregnant and an
arc about S/J having a baby written into the storyline. I, personally do not
want to see anything like this. It's nice to see aspects of the character's
personal life, but I think having a child would become a negative aspect in
Sam's life at this point in time.

Sam questioned this herself in Affinity...

Sam: What about children?
Jack: What about them?
Sam: Do I take maternity leave and then come back?
Do I drop the kids off at daycare on the way to some
unexplored planet on the edge of crab nebula?
Jack : Carter, there are people on this base who have families.

Yes some people on base have families, but I don't think Sam
would be the kind of mother who could drop her kids off at a
daycare, knowing there was a chance when she walked through
the Stargate that she may not be back for days, weeks, or if ever.
We saw how devoted she was to Cassie in Singularity. Just
a few days with this young girl and she couldn't leave her.
Could you imagine how same would feel about her own newborn
child?

Maybe if Jack did indeed retire and decided to be a stay-at-home
dad I could see this type of storyline added, but Sam is not even
forty years old. She is still in the prime of her life, she has the
potential to surpass O'Neill in rank and position. Jack is a great
soldier, but Sam is a soldier and a brilliant astrophysists. Even
when Sam's time came to step down as a soldier, I don't believe
she would give up the scientific side of herself. She has a compulsive
personality that is driven by work. We saw in Ascension that Sam
doesn't really know how to just sit back and enjoy herself. She has
to be constantly busy or she is lost.

Jack on the other hand, I can totally see Jack retired staying home
with the kids: doing the whole carpool and classroom helper thing.
Would I miss Jack in a active role, yes, but we have already lost him
in such a position.

ForeverSG1

[Skydiver]

there IS a huge doublestandard

look at teal'c....he slept with sho'nac while drey'ac was still alive. yes, their marriage was rocky, but if sam had slept with narim while she was engaged with pete, she'd have been a slut, or worse (and let's not even go into the krista bit while he was relatively in a relationship with ishta)

daniel, lessee, there's shaur'i, his lovely wife to whom he was devoted to....she was killed in FIAD and in the very next eps he was sleeping with kira (no we never saw it, but when a man defends a woman like he did kira, they're intimate)....and it's ok. but if sam had shacked up with jack within days/hours of breaking up with pete, she'd have been crucified

it's a sad, but accurate, statement on society that men and women are held to different standards of behavior. men have multiple partners, they're studs, women are sluts

[NearlyCircular]

I definitely caught and understood the ST Uhura reference... and I believe that Nicholle Nichols was going to quit the series because she was given so little to do (amongst the boys), but someone very well known (I'm forgetting who it was right now) told her that with any such role in a major network TV series, she was advancing the exposure and expectations and future possibilities for black women everywhere. So she stayed... even with the scripts that gave her so little to do... and even though she felt like more of a piece of the props or settings. As the years passed and Star Trek grew into an empire with a legacy, I think she became proud of what she was a part of. For myself, I feel that she deserved so much more from the scripts and the series... but those were the times. She was a groundbreaker.
.

I hadn't heard that she wanted to leave the show, but I'm glad she stayed on as well. It was a thankless role in many ways, but she managed to strike a chord in a lot of people. I think I've read that Whoopi Goldberg was inspired by the character, and that was one of the reasons she wanted to be on STNG.

NC

[Skydiver]

Jack on the other hand, I can totally see Jack retired staying home
with the kids: doing the whole carpool and classroom helper thing.
Would I miss Jack in a active role, yes, but we have already lost him
in such a position.

ForeverSG1

oh me too. especially since that's pretty much why rda is taking time off

[MajorSam]

Hello fellow Samandans!!!

I have recently been tasked with the job of creating a satire! I have chosen to write a short story on "The stereotyping of women in film and television" and though that Samanda would be a GREAT place to ask for help, get other's ideas/opinions, especially considering our recent topics of discussion.

Any and all comments/ideas etc. will be greatly appreciated

MSam

[astrogeologist]

.
For Season 5's Red Sky...

I wanted to comment on a cute Amanda/Sam moment from the show. It's from s5's Red Sky, when Sam's explaining something scientific to Jack and Daniel, but she's using apples and oranges as representations.

Love the image of Carter using food props to explain astrophysics again...
reminds me of 'the donut explanation' to Hammond in A Matter of Time...

It's when she's done with the little essay, and when she puts the fruit back in their specific baskets... I'm thinking this is more Amanda than Sam, because she accidently mixes the fruit together, but quickly puts them in their right baskets before she stands up. I thought that was so cute and so Amanda!

The commentary for Red Sky & the fruit in the wrong basket scene. I just cracked up when AT said she realized as she was playing the scene that she had put the 2 kinds in the wrong baskets and thought "oh, no--they'll think Carter is rude" and fixed it.

Yeah, on the commentary, she and Martin Wood joke about that, and then they go into a discussion about how much of Amanda he sees in Carter and vice versa. The Martin Wood commentaries are really good, IMO.

I think this scene and the commentaries give us a glimpse of one of the little facets of Sam Carter that is really AT. And, just how *great* is it, that AT thought some might think of Carter as rude for not putting the fruit back in its original baskets? I think it's a great commentary on AT's parents and how they brought her up. They should be proud of the results! Who can't like someone who's so polite and considerate?

Also from the same episode was this little scene (precursor to the fruit explanation):

Sam and Jack are walking thru the village
SAM: Sir, I've been thinking.
JACK: I'd be SHOCKED if you EVER stopped, Carter!
She then gives him a sideways look that I *so* wanted a screen cap of, but they were walking away from the camera and through the crowd, so other bodies got in the way of a clean, non-blurry shot.
.
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Screen caps are from the episode Red Sky
Transcript excerpt is from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website
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[Agent_Dark]

But you will be checking in with us here at the SaGC, right?

And, I wanted to say 'Wow!' one more time about your sig pics, Agent Dark. I browsed through your collection yesterday and I was very impressed. Great candid snapshots of Sam Carter! Question: where do you get your pics from? I know they are not all from DVDs because there is one of Geek!Sam from Moebius.
.

Hehe I assume they're DVD screencaps - I didn't actually do 'em myself. Amanda's official website, http://www.amandatapping.com , has a great gallery of photos of all of Amanda's work. So I just browsed through them and grabbed the ones I liked, then photochopped my name on em. As for the Geek!Sam one, I got that from *cough* other sources *cough*

And ForeverSg1, please tell us all about the con!

[lord-anubis]

i just heard my new fav sam quote its from reckening part2

cater-you blow up one star and every one excpcts you to walk on water.

[Skydiver]

stereotyping huh?

how about examples

to be a strong female character she should be butch
strong females can't be married or have kids....that emotional attachment makes them weak
most females are there to be arm jewelry for the male lead
a female can't lead a tv show, especially a scifi show
emotion makes you weak

as for the men

males can't have a family, unless they're there to be pawns between the hero and the villian
males can't show emotion without being weak
women are the brains, men are the brawn
to be a hero, a man must have a tragic past

and let's not forget the biggie...men who are promiscious are studs, women are sluts

[astrogeologist]

i just heard my new fav sam quote its from reckening part2

cater-you blow up one star and every one excpcts you to walk on water.

LordAnubis - That's a great Carter quote - you will like NearlyCircular's sig
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[lord-anubis]

LordAnubis - That's a great Carter quote - you will like NearlyCircular's sig
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lol thats a great sig