Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Some really good Carterfic!

Forbidden, Intrusion, and Trespass by Julia Reynolds.

Julia Reynolds wrote great Sam stuff! What is she up to these days?

When Rheanna was in the fandom she wrote good Jackfic but did justice to Sam. Her 3-part epic, Totality, really showcases competant soldier and leader Sam. Oh, and in this fic Rheanna whumps her good, too.

http://sg1-heliopolis.com/archive/53/totalitypart.html

[ChopinGal]

Madam President

Quick, make haste ... the Royal Invitation has been edited ... so sorry! Methinks you will find the Menu now ... I hope it meets with your approval.

I promise not to have the aforementioned drink served. That, and sloe gin, will be banned from the bar.

The musical selections are wonderful and I will start tuning up my lyre immediately.

J

[MajorSam]

To All Citizens of Samanda

Gourmet Food will include Asgard appetizers (be careful of the yellow cubes, they're a bit zesty); main entree will be a delicious repast of Tollan Tortellini and Tok'ra Tettrazini, along with the fish of the day, imported from a small pond in Minnesota. For dessert, there will be an ample supply of donuts and blue jello.


Please respond as soon as possible so the preparations can begin.

Aaaah, an excellent selection good Jester!!!! I do admit a liking to such exotic foods as The Yellow Ones. Though our Queen has a distate for them (I suggest Security hides them if she makes an appearance!!!) They had a spring to my step and a lightness to my heart. I ask you, my Jester, to keep a watchful eye so I do not indulge too much in the wonderful deserts. It would not do for me to be heavy and lagging while on my Samanda-Training weekends!

[astrogeologist]

exactly. Originally, AT's issues were sam becoming 'jack's girl'....but in affinity and chimera she became Pete's Girl. part of what sam was and how she acted was defined by her relationship with Pete.
AT didn't want her character's social life to be the focus of the show....yet that's just what it became. Even ignoring the whole hot button topic of the Pete Situation, pete's presence was a defining force in Sam's life and a singular focus in 2.5 episodes (chimera and affinity and then part of threads)

What she was so afraid of happening with Sam and Jack is precisely what happened with Sam and Pete. Because of that, folks spent a lot less time actually discussing sam as CO of sg-1 and discussing sam as half of a couple

Well worded, Skydiver!

I totally agree with you in regards to the choices TPTB made in regards to Sam's personal relationships. I liked Narim, Orlin, Martouf, ... I even really liked Barret (I also agree he and Sam had great chemistry together). In all honesty, Amanda is so wonderful that you can see a comfort level between her and nearly all of the men she's had to work with. I could easily see a relationship develop with any of them and be believable. However, the writers chose to kill each one off.

Great observation, ForeverSG1! I agree with you that Amanda somehow comes across as capable of having a relationship with almost any of the guys that have been on the show... (well, except Felger...? )

Over the past two years, we've slowly seen a nice portion of that comraderie come back, but it's still falls short of where it once was. I know AT has often commented that she wanted Sam to be known as more than Jack's girl, or any man's woman for that matter. I truly wish the writers could learn to understand that women are capable of having loving relationships with a significant other and still be strong and independent women.

I love my husband, he completes my life. Where my own personal attributes are lacking, his are complimentary and vice versa making each of us a better person. It's not a manipulative or controlling relationship, which I totally felt was the case with Sam and Pete.

I enjoyed the first 10 minutes of Chimera. I thought seeing Sam experience life through her new relationship with Pete was actually sweet. He treated her not as a Major in the USAF, nor as a scientist, but simply as a woman. Regardless of how wonderful someone's job is, I doubt there is a female alive who doesn't enjoy feeling desirable on occassion. To expect Sam to be any different would be idiotic. Sam is nearly forty years old, I don't believe her questioning the direction she has taking in her left to be untrue to Sam's character. At some point even someone like Sam would wonder if she was giving up too much for her job and at least want to experience that which she was lacking.

However, I detested how the writers portrayed Pete at the end of the Chimera, nor have I care for where they took his character in any of the other episodes. They had a great opportunity to really put Sam into a wonderful relationship but from day one I felt nothing more than sadness and pity for Sam.

As much as I want to see a resolution between Sam and Jack, I hope more than anything thing that Sam is finally allowed to be in a truly loving relationship: where she respected and trusted. But more importantly where she can be strong, independent and openly happy for once in her life.

/* Stepping down from soap box */ ForeverSG1

Similar to Hyde Park in London, soapboxes are welcome in the Land of 'Sam is a Great Character'!
Fantastic post ForeverSG1! Good to have you aboard our little kingdom... err, thread.

You brought up some great points, and I couldn't agree more!
Thanks for posting!

[chocdoc]

This discussion has zeroed in on the 'issue' very astutely. I actually enjoy seeing the personal side of the main characters, *but* the personal insights and information must be interwoven into the main storyline... or at the least, not detract from it. Over the past couple of seasons, Carter's scenes have been overwhelmed by the personal issues, leaving the other characters to handle the main scifi drama. Add in that TPTB wanted to show some 'vulnerabilties' for Carter... and it added up to too much - and Carter was left out of the cool scifi (and most of the heroic actions).

The comparison with Daniel's character is extremely apt, as their two characters have numerous similarities, both in science/academia and in temperament (they both have heart).

Of note, Chimera and Threads are episodes where almost all of the main content of Carter's scenes were personal soap-opera material... and Daniel's character carried the weight of the cool scifi developments in both of those episodes - adding to the overall rating and appreciation of his character... adding to his status as one of the true legendary heroes of SG-1. I can't fault Daniel-fans for being extremely pleased with Dr. Jackson's character development.

(I'd put Affinity in the same category as Chimera and Threads, but I haven't seen the episode or read the transcript, I've only read synopses and such.)
.
I do remember reading quotes from interviews with AT where she stated that she has never wanted the character of Carter as 'defined' by whether or not she 'had a man'. She's also stated that she thought that Carter getting a boyfriend was a good idea for the balance and health of Carter's overall character - but again, AT didn't feel that this 'boyfriend issue or presence' should ever be a mainline issue for Carter on screen. (I'm using my own words here from what I remember - if anyone has links to interviews where AT talks about this, please post them).

After Season 7 wrapped, I also got the impression (from various interviews) that AT was looking forward to Colonel Carter leading SG-1 in Season 8. Now that Season 8 has finished filming, I'd sure like to know how she feels about how Season 8 portrayed that aspect of Sam.

AT strikes me as someone who is able to see the positive sides of what comes along in life. Not like a Polyanna, but as a realist who wants to enjoy life as she lives it.

I could be wrong, but from what I've read of AT interviews, AT seemed to be looking forward to Carter leading and commanding, and I don't think that AT ever wanted to see Sam's scenes become predominantly soap-opera material.

However, AT is able to deal with reality. She's given a script - or rather portions of 2-4 scripts to film over a day - and she just figures out how to handle it to the best of her ability. And with that filming schedule that they have had over the past two years - the actors probably can't do much more than the best acting they can - and then they have to trust the writers and directors to put it all together into positive and intersting episodes and story arcs.

I have a 'mental' candle burning (Keeper of the Flame!) that Season 9 will bring us back on track with Carter's character development.

Kick-ass, competent Carter who has a softer side (and a big heart), but can get the job done anyway! Put her in the front seat of a jet or an X-302 or such! Put her behind the lines with Teal'c - and get them both banged up and dirty... hey - let her save his life... take a bullet for him or some such! Have an episode where she saves some kids or some such... the interaction with the kids would be great - but let her get dirty and banged up and save their lives, don't just make her the mommy figure or some such!

I have countless cool Carter plot ideas... but will wait to post the rest!
.

The comments by so many about how Carter has been written over the last two seasons are so good! We definitely need to see Carter back in the front seat of a jet again soon. And yes, please, a good Teal'c/Carter survival story is just waiting to happen!

I hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to play the devil's advocate here a bit about how Carter has been protrayed over the last two seasons. I should preface my comments with the fact that I am neither an anti-SJ shipper or a pro-SJ shipper. I would be fine if Carter and O'Neill get together as long as they don't break the regs, but if they don't, that is fine with me too.

And also I completely agree that Carter's personal life certainly has gained more attention in these last two seasons. For me, the main problem is how the writers have written the Sam/Pete relationship. As I said before, I really wished they had developed a relationship with someone who makes sense in the stargate world like Agent Barrett!! And poor David DeLuise---they did not write Pete well at all!! And I also agree that we should have seen Carter lead the team more in season eight.

That said, I don't think the last two seasons have been "dominated" by her personal life. It just seems that this is so because it stands out in two episodes (actually three but haven't seen Threads yet) out of 40 episodes, where it has not stood out before. All the things that Carter has done in the other 37 episodes go to the background when in fact she has done a number of huge things in the scifi world. I think it is easy to take her contributions for granted--I'm not sure why though. Her story arc is not all-consumed by her personal struggle regarding relationships and family (which I actually don't think is a terrible thing if it is one of several story arcs), but it feels like it to some because it is focused on at all in the last two seasons relative to the previous seasons.

Her contributions that could be taken for granted are: Spoilers for season 7 and 8 below:

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Take season 8:

--New Order---Sam figures out how to get to the Asgard (and takes on a very dangerous mission and risks her life along with Teal'c) and is the reason why Jack is saved. Not bad. Also, captured by Fifth and endures torture and is clever enough to convince Fifth to let her go.

--Lockdown---punches out one of her own in order to try to stop Anibus---doesn't completely stop him but does send him to a frozen planet. Go resourceful Sam.

--Icon--leads SG teams to rescue Daniel. Brave and tactical Sam.

--Avatar---works with Dr. Lee to figure out how to save Teal'c. Volunteers to go into the game. Not supersam here--just trying to figure out how to deal with situation. Friend Sam.

--Affinity---yep romantic sam here, it is true. Teal'c too!! My least favorite episode by far because of the pete/sam storyline and just as disappointing, the Teal'c with his neighbor storyline. Teal'c sleeping with his neighbor was not good writing for me---Not good on Teal'c's personal life here either.


--Covenant---deals with acquaintance who knows too much. In the end, helps to convince him not to commit suicide. The softer side of Sam. Compassionate sam.

---Gemini---all about sam in the scifi world---sam faces replicarter. Disagreements here about how sam was written. From good she makes mistakes to how gullible could she be. If you hate Sam, you'll bash her to no end; if you like her, you'll forgive this mistake and see how she deals with it.

--It's Good to be King---leads the team effectively in the beginning. Does all the normal sam techno stuff, helping O'Neill. Competent techno Sam.

Season 7:

Fallen/Homecoming: Sam is extremely sensitive to Daniel when he can't remember who he is. She is the one that tells him how wonderful he is--how passionate he is, etc. Sensitive and good friend Sam. also kick-butt sam in tackling Jaffa.

Orpheus---Sam sympathizes with Daniel and helps him all he can with his memories again. Sympathizes with Teal'c too, although this was more of a Teal'c and Daniel story.

Revisions---competent Sam again helping a people realize what the Link really is. Competent techno sam.

Space race---Sam as a speed-junky--the fun, lighter side of sam too.

Evolution 2: Carter is leader of recon mission to discover what Anibus is doing with his soldiers.

Fallout---Carter helps Jonas out with problem with naquadria mine. Willing to risk her life here. Brave Sam.

Grace-- yes, this is about her personal life somewhat---she has a severe concussion, is hallucinating, probably is going to die---yes she is doing some evaluating of her life under these circumstances. Good for her. Reflective Sam.

Death Knell---resourceful soldier under dire circumstances---true grit Sam.

Heroes---devastated by Janet's death. Glad Jack is still alive. Gives great tribute to Janet with help from Teal'c.


Resurrection---may not be the most riveting scifi show, but competent sam again here with Agent Barrett.


Left out alot but way too long of a post. Sorry. I think all of Sam's contributions get pushed to the wayside here and for some fans Sam is only defined by her lovelife. I think that negates all the things that she does do that is central to the scifi stories. Her abilities and strengths are taken for granted. I don't know that this happens for the male characters.

[Agent_Dark]

Aaaah, an excellent selection good Jester!!!! I do admit a liking to such exotic foods as The Yellow Ones. Though our Queen has a distate for them (I suggest Security hides them if she makes an appearance!!!)

Do not concern yourself Madame President, it will be taken care of. And as Head of Security, I feel it is my duty to personally test all food prepared for poisons or other nasty ailments. Please send samples to my office at the soonest.

[Agent_Dark]

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=1520
I think all of Sam's contributions get pushed to the wayside here and for some fans Sam is only defined by her lovelife. I think that negates all the things that she does do that is central to the scifi stories. Her abilities and strengths are taken for granted. I don't know that this happens for the male characters.

Great comments chocdoc. That last part sums it up perfectly.

[astrogeologist]

My thoughts are that lately we have seen snippets of Sam the leader and Sam the scientist and Sam the friend, but those moments seem to be overshadowed by too many scenes showing Sam worrying about her personal relationships. We don't see Jack or Daniel or Teal'c dealing with those types of issues. If relationship problems are presented for the guys, it's usually done in the context of the show, as a way of progressing the plot, not just as an add-on. NC

NC - Spectacular quotes!
Perfect for our discussion - thanks so much for sharing them with us here!
Definitely worthy of some Blue Jello...

and just in case anyone is wondering - it's freshly made... there've been so many wonderful posts lately that the Blue Jello doesn't stay in my fridge long before it's claimed by another great post!

.

[majorsal]

spoilers for s7's chimera and s8's threads

i think, when it comes to sam's personal life, they tend to write an idealized sam. she's tall, pretty, smart, sexy and the writers write her as they'd like to see (or maybe fantastize about...using fantasize in the platonic meaning) a woman act.

they don't necessarily write Stargate Sam in a relationship, but Samantha carter, who happens to be a USAF officer how they'd like to see her acting.

I have no issue with showing sam's personal life...but i'd rather have her personal life be part of an episode, the C plot maybe, rather than plot line A that drives a whole episode

threads spoilage

Spoiler:

i think that Pete served his purpose. he broke the black widow's curse....which largely came about simply because the writers just weren't paying attention to how often they were using sam as the sg1 love interest adn killing off her boyfriend of the week for angst value. Daniel has just as much of a curse, he seems destined to get involved with women who are goa'ulds, psychopaths and murderers. but daniel's curse isn't as spoken of as much as sam's was

anyway, pete served a purpose. he broke the curse. he showed that sam does mess some things up. she's not perfect in her interpersonal relationships. he set up some tension between sam and the rest of her team (be it interpreted as shippy or not) and he allowed sam to grow.
he served a purpose and now he's gone.

I think he was handled very clumsily from the very beginning...but that's all water under the bridge

Spoiler:

I seem to remember it being you that made the statement that they should have had Pete be Daniel's friend instead of her brothers. That way, they could have had him stumble upon the 'Osiris at Daniel's house' scenario by accident, and not because he was staking her out at the stateout. In fact (don't gag at my repetitiveness please ), if they'd cut out the whole 'I want to know what you do and I'm going to find out behind your back' thinger, Pete could have just been a guy that Sam was going out with. No nagging, no checking up, no following, and him just showing up at his good friend Daniel's house and accidently being involved in the situation. For the life of me, I'll never figure out why they went the way they did. Didn't help the Pete character, and didn't help Sam.

[/rant over]

Sally

[astrogeologist]

The comments by so many about how Carter has been written over the last two seasons are so good! We definitely need to see Carter back in the front seat of a jet again soon. And yes, please, a good Teal'c/Carter survival story is just waiting to happen!

I hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to play the devil's advocate here a bit about how Carter has been portrayed over the last two seasons.

Chocdoc's Great List of Carter's positive contributions in Seasons 7&8
+ great notations of the 'different sides of Sam'

I think all of Sam's contributions get pushed to the wayside here and for some fans Sam is only defined by her lovelife. I think that negates all the things that she does do that is central to the scifi stories. Her abilities and strengths are taken for granted. I don't know that this happens for the male characters.

Fantastic post Chocdoc!

Loved your list of Sam moments and Sam facets for Seasons 7 & 8!

Absolutely perfect comments and critiques for our thread 'Sam is a great character'.



.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Accounting

Nuts! Too bad; I was hoping you could've blown the shield with that big gun in your sig pic.

[Skydiver]

spoilers for s7's chimera and s8's threads

Spoiler:

I seem to remember it being you that made the statement that they should have had Pete be Daniel's friend instead of her brothers. That way, they could have had him stumble upon the 'Osiris at Daniel's house' scenario by accident, and not because he was staking her out at the stateout. In fact (don't gag at my repetitiveness please ), if they'd cut out the whole 'I want to know what you do and I'm going to find out behind your back' thinger, Pete could have just been a guy that Sam was going out with. No nagging, no checking up, no following, and him just showing up at his good friend Daniel's house and accidently being involved in the situation. For the life of me, I'll never figure out why they went the way they did. Didn't help the Pete character, and didn't help Sam.

[/rant over]

Sally

yep, poor pete's character fell victim to a huge honkin plot hole...and has irreperably suffered from it

[astrogeologist]

spoilers for s7's chimera and s8's threads

Spoiler:

I seem to remember it being you that made the statement that they should have had Pete be Daniel's friend instead of her brothers. That way, they could have had him stumble upon the 'Osiris at Daniel's house' scenario by accident, and not because he was staking her out at the stateout. In fact (don't gag at my repetitiveness please ), if they'd cut out the whole 'I want to know what you do and I'm going to find out behind your back' thinger, Pete could have just been a guy that Sam was going out with. No nagging, no checking up, no following, and him just showing up at his good friend Daniel's house and accidently being involved in the situation. For the life of me, I'll never figure out why they went the way they did. Didn't help the Pete character, and didn't help Sam. [/rant over]

Sally

Great ideas Skydiver and MajorSal!
Those scenarios would have worked beautifully!

.

[MajorSam]

Do not concern yourself Madame President, it will be taken care of. And as Head of Security, I feel it is my duty to personally test all food prepared for poisons or other nasty ailments. Please send samples to my office at the soonest.

*Sends samples* I salute you for your selfless acts while carrying out your duties as HOS (Head of homeworld Security!? ) I'm certain the Queen will appreciate greatly your self-dangerement!

spoilers for s7's chimera and s8's threads

Spoiler:

I seem to remember it being you that made the statement that they should have had Pete be Daniel's friend instead of her brothers. That way, they could have had him stumble upon the 'Osiris at Daniel's house' scenario by accident, and not because he was staking her out at the stateout. In fact (don't gag at my repetitiveness please ), if they'd cut out the whole 'I want to know what you do and I'm going to find out behind your back' thinger, Pete could have just been a guy that Sam was going out with. No nagging, no checking up, no following, and him just showing up at his good friend Daniel's house and accidently being involved in the situation. For the life of me, I'll never figure out why they went the way they did. Didn't help the Pete character, and didn't help Sam.

[/rant over]

Sally

Beautiful. I don't see why TPTB can't come up with these simple things

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I hope you guys don't mind, but I would like to play the devil's advocate here a bit about how Carter has been protrayed over the last two seasons.

<snip>

That said, I don't think the last two seasons have been "dominated" by her personal life. It just seems that this is so because it stands out in two episodes (actually three but haven't seen Threads yet) out of 40 episodes, where it has not stood out before. All the things that Carter has done in the other 37 episodes go to the background when in fact she has done a number of huge things in the scifi world. I think it is easy to take her contributions for granted--I'm not sure why though. Her story arc is not all-consumed by her personal struggle regarding relationships and family....

<again with the snippage>

I think all of Sam's contributions get pushed to the wayside here and for some fans Sam is only defined by her lovelife. I think that negates all the things that she does do that is central to the scifi stories. Her abilities and strengths are taken for granted. I don't know that this happens for the male characters.

Well said, Chocdoc. I agree, 2 or 3 eps out of eight seasons ain't half bad. While I love the scifi angle, and Sam's personal/romance material could, perhaps, have been better written, the same can be said for some of the purely scifi-ish eps, as well.

I think that we're somewhat spoiled with Stargate, because it gives us so little personal life/romance stuff, as compared to just about every other scifi tv show.