Stargate SG1 vs Star Trek DS9

[faz]

I wanted to start this topic because i really think that stargate SG1 has become lacluster and quite frankly boring as it comes to an end.

I make the comparison with DS9 because both shows main premise in the final 2/3 or so seasons was the war with their respective enemies. What really gets me is that there are only 2 episodes left till SG1 is cancelled and they have crappy episode fillers like the one last night.
I mean those of you who watched DS9 in its final seasons will know it was truly writing genius. The action, suspense and brilliant stories wanted everyone wanting more because of their ability to make the atmosphere feel that you were part of a real true war. When it cancelled i was v sad, however the show could not have gone out better! I wish i could say the same for SG1.

In SG1 season 10 we have no nice space battles, the good races are non-existant anymore; where are the asgard, the tokra and others, all we have is earth sitting happy every episode, and the boring jaffa and character centric episodes. you would think there wasnt even a war!!

I bought season 4-7 of DS9 off of play a few weeks ago and watched those brilliant war seasons again, and having watched the episodes in SG1 season ten am not ashamed to say that its most probably been one of the most boring seasons i have watched. Im not surprised that sci fi cancelled SG1 and regrettably glad that it will end soon!

[g.o.d]

I haven't seen a single DS9 episode but I've heard the same form many fans on the other forums.It's a shame we have those filler boring episodes(I hate them) in the very last season.I hope we'll see our allies next week.

[BuggyMan]

I agree, DS9 was great at the end while SG1 is the same like always: Some good episodes surrounded by those damn fillers.
Both introduced a formidable new villain but in contrast to DS9 the writers of SG1 seem to ignore the main plot deliberately. Instead they take shots on the Sci-Fi network for cancelling "their" series. In fact the writers "cancelled" it by producing garbage ep after garbage ep.

[Daniel Jackson]

I wanted to start this topic because i really think that stargate SG1 has become lacluster and quite frankly boring as it comes to an end.

I make the comparison with DS9 because both shows main premise in the final 2/3 or so seasons was the war with their respective enemies. What really gets me is that there are only 2 episodes left till SG1 is cancelled and they have crappy episode fillers like the one last night.

When cancellation was announced, there were only three episodes left to make: "Family Ties," "Dominion," and a Season 10 finale that would end on a cliffhanger. The Season 10 finale was reworked into the Series Finale, "Unending." The Ori show will be concluded in Stargate: The Ark of Truth.

I mean those of you who watched DS9 in its final seasons will know it was truly writing genius. The action, suspense and brilliant stories wanted everyone wanting more because of their ability to make the atmosphere feel that you were part of a real true war. When it cancelled i was v sad, however the show could not have gone out better! I wish i could say the same for SG1.

DS9 wasn't cancelled, the producers brought it to an end. Season 6 was to be the final season, so they decided to go out with a bang with a year-long war. The show got renewed for Season 7, so the war got extended. They began Season 7 knowing that it would be the final season. This is why they were able to plan a 9-episode arc to end the series.

This is comparable to SG-1 Season 8 where most episodes were about bringing ongoing stories to an end culminating in an epic climax with "Reckoning, Parts 1 & 2" and "Threads" followed by the series finale, "Moebius, Parts 1 & 2."

SciFi renewed the show. Oops!

In SG1 season 10 we have no nice space battles, the good races are non-existant anymore; where are the asgard, the tokra and others, all we have is earth sitting happy every episode, and the boring jaffa and character centric episodes. you would think there wasnt even a war!!

No epic space battles? Check out...

"Flesh and Blood"
"The Pegasus Project"
"Counterstrike"
"Company of Thieves"
"Dominion" (I'm hoping!)

What do you mean by, "The good races are not existant anymore?"

The Asguard are rebuilding their empire. They probably don't have ships capable of combatting the Ori warships, so they're out of the picture for now. It's been rumored that Thor will return for the series finale. The alliance with the Tok'ra ended in Season 7's "Death Knell." We've seen one Tok'ra spy in Season 8's "Endgame," and then we saw Selmak in "Reckoning, Parts 1 & 2" and "Threads." With the Goa'uld defeated (except Ba'al), there's no point to keep the Tok'ra around, because their purpose was to provide a mirror contrast to the Goa'uld.

I bought season 4-7 of DS9 off of play a few weeks ago and watched those brilliant war seasons again

The war only spanned Seasons 6 & 7. The Dominion were only in a handful of episodes durring Seasons 4 & 5.

having watched the episodes in SG1 season ten am not ashamed to say that its most probably been one of the most boring seasons i have watched.

I think this is because you are expecting too much. Not every episode is going to deal with the Ori. Deal with it! Personally, I'm sick of the Ori. I'm glad there's been plenty of stand-alone episodes.

Im not surprised that sci fi cancelled SG1 and regrettably glad that it will end soon!

SciFi's cancellation of SG-1 had nothing to do with the quality of the show, evidence by the decission to cancel SG-1 just after the 6th episode of the season had aired. SciFi cancelled the show for budgetary reasons.

[GateShip One]

I bought season 4-7 of DS9 off of play a few weeks ago and watched those brilliant war seasons again, and having watched the episodes in SG1 season ten am not ashamed to say that its most probably been one of the most boring seasons i have watched. Im not surprised that sci fi cancelled SG1 and regrettably glad that it will end soon!

With only 2 episodes left, I'm going to call Season 10 my favourite year of Stargate SG-1. I really enjoy the character-centric episodes, because afterall, what we care about are the characters. The war with the Ori is really just an excuse to see the characters in action.

[faz]

When cancellation was announced, there were only three episodes left to make: "Family Ties," "Dominion," and a Season 10 finale that would end on a cliffhanger. The Season 10 finale was reworked into the Series Finale, "Unending." The Ori show will be concluded in Stargate: The Ark of Truth.

Thats no excuse!, even if they didnt know that the series was going to end, why are most of the episodes crap?

DS9 wasn't cancelled, the producers brought it to an end.

Yep sorry i meant to say ended.

This is comparable to SG-1 Season 8 where most episodes were about bringing ongoing stories to an end culminating in an epic climax with "Reckoning, Parts 1 & 2" and "Threads" followed by the series finale, "Moebius, Parts 1 & 2."

Yep those eps were great, but to my knowledge that season had far less fillers than season 10 no?..... lets count fillers in season 10..

1. Morpheus
2. Uninvited
3. 200
4. Memento Mori
5. Bounty
6. Bad Guys
7. Family Ties

over a 3rd of the eps were fillers and crap!

No epic space battles? Check out...

"Flesh and Blood"
"The Pegasus Project"
"Counterstrike"
"Company of Thieves"
"Dominion" (I'm hoping!)

You call them epic? yes, i'd call some of them decent space battles but i was talking more along the lines of the kinda battle that we saw when the earth and allies fleet fought with the ori ships the first time they came through the gate. If memory serves me correct DS9 had space battles with much greater scope, realism and frequency. Im just saying i wish that the stargate writers would create more of an atmosphere that there was a real war and more 'fighting' would certainly do that!

The war only spanned Seasons 6 & 7. The Dominion were only in a handful of episodes durring Seasons 4 & 5.

I think this is because you are expecting too much. Not every episode is going to deal with the Ori. Deal with it! Personally, I'm sick of the Ori. I'm glad there's been plenty of stand-alone episodes.

The war only spanned seasons 6 & 7?!? have u even watched deep space nine? Season 5 layed the groundwork for the oncoming war action in season 6 and 7. There were 7 dominion centric episodes in season 5 of DS9, the same number of fillers in season 10 of SG1!

1. Apocalypse Rising
2. The Ship
3. Nor The Battle To The Strong
4. In Purgatory's Shadow (1)
5. By Inferno's Light (2)
6. Soldiers Of The Empire
7. Call To Arms (1)

[Daniel Jackson]

Thats no excuse!, even if they didnt know that the series was going to end, why are most of the episodes crap?

I've seen up to 10-17 "Talion." From Season 10, the only episode I found to be crap is "Morpheus." "200" was OK, but it was ultimately fluff. Obviously it was going to be a one-off comedy, but it doesn't have any substance, it's just a series of disconnected jokes. I expected more than that.

Yep those eps were great, but to my knowledge that season had far less fillers than season 10 no?

That's because the producers had a contract that said SG-1 would return for Season 11 which would feature the conclussion to the Ori saga. With only three episodes left, SciFi cancelled the show. Oops!

lets count fillers in season 10..

1. Morpheus
2. Uninvited
3. 200
4. Memento Mori
5. Bounty
6. Bad Guys
7. Family Ties

over a 3rd of the eps were fillers and crap!

The "filler episodes" are half of why I watch. If the show became a serial, I'd stop watching. I don't like serials.

You call them epic?

Yes, I do. Two space ships duking it out can be epic. It all depends on how the story unfolds. The episodes I provided are epic to me.

yes, i'd call some of them decent space battles but i was talking more along the lines of the kinda battle that we saw when the earth and allies fleet fought with the ori ships the first time they came through the gate.

SG-1 has always reserved that for season finales.

If memory serves me correct DS9 had space battles with much greater scope, realism and frequency.

DS9 had a bigger budget.

Im just saying i wish that the stargate writers would create more of an atmosphere that there was a real war and more 'fighting' would certainly do that!

That would make for a boring show. I want variety, not Stargate Ori.

The war only spanned seasons 6 & 7?!? have u even watched deep space nine? Season 5 layed the groundwork for the oncoming war action in season 6 and 7. There were 7 dominion centric episodes in season 5 of DS9, the same number of fillers in season 10 of SG1!

Yes, I've seen all of Seasons 1-3 and most of Seasons 4-7, missing maybe one or two episodes per season from Seasons 4-7.

The war began in the Season 5 finale "Call to Arms."

Here's a list of episodes that relate to the Jem'Hadar, the Vorta, the Changelings, or the Dominion as a whole.

Season 2 (1 of 26 Episodes)
2-26 "The Jem'Hadar"

Season 3 (7 of 26 Episodes)

Spoiler:

3-01 "The Search, Part I"
3-02 "The Search, Part II"
3-06 "The Abandoned"
3-14 "Heart of Stone"
3-20 "Improbable Cause"
3-21 "The Die is Cast"
3-26 "The Adversary"

Season 4 (6 of 25 Episodes)

Spoiler:

4-04 "Hippocratic Oath"
4-07 "Starship Down"
4-11 "Homefront"
4-12 "Paradise Lost"
4-23 "To the Death"
4-26 "Broken Link"

Season 5 (7 of 26 Episodes)

Spoiler:

5-01 "Apocalypse Rising"
5-02 "The Ship"
5-14 "In Purgatory's Shadow"
5-15 "By Inferno's Light"
5-21 "Soldier's of the Empire"
5-23 "Blaze of Glory"
5-26 "Call to Arms"

Season 6 (10 of 26 Episodes)

Spoiler:

6-01 "A Time to Stand"
6-02 "Rocks and Shoals"
6-03 "Sons and Daughters"
6-04 "Behind the Lines"
6-05 "Favor the Bold"
6-06 "Sacrifice of Angels"
6-10 "The Magnificent Ferengi"
6-14 "One Little Ship"
6-22 "Valiant"
6-26 "Tears of the Prophets"

Season 7 (12 of 25 Episodes)

Spoiler:

7-06 "Treachery, Faith and the Great River"
7-07 "Once More Unto the Breach"
7-08 "The Siege of AR-558"
7-17 "Penumbra"
7-18 "Til Death Do Us Part"
7-19 "Strange Bedfellows"
7-20 "The Changing Face of Evil"
7-21 "When it Rains..."
7-22 "Tacking into the Wind"
7-23 "Extreme Measures"
7-24 "The Dogs of War"
7-25 "What You Leave Behind"

Now let's compare to the Ori episodes of SG-1...

Season 9 (12 of 20 Episodes)

Spoiler:

9-02 "Avalon, Part 2"
9-03 "Origin"
9-05 "The Powers That Be"
9-06 "Beachhead"
9-08 "Babylon"
9-10 "The Fourth Horseman, Part 1"
9-11 "The Fourth Horseman, Part 2"
9-15 "Ethon"
9-17 "The Scourge"
9-18 "Arthor's Mantle"
9-19 "Crusade"
9-20 "Camelot"

Season 10 (9 or 10 of 20 Episodes)

Spoiler:

10-01 "Flesh and Blood"
10-03 "The Pegasus Project"
10-07 "Counterstrike"
10-10 "The Quest, Part 1"
10-11 "The Quest, Part 2"
10-12 "Line in the Sand"
10-13 "The Road Not Taken"
10-14 "The Shroud"
10-19 "Dominion"
10-20 "Unending" (not sure about this one)

As you can see, the Ori episodes on SG-1 take up more of the season than the Dominion stories did on DS9.

[Mitchell82]

Thats no excuse!, even if they didnt know that the series was going to end, why are most of the episodes crap?



Yep sorry i meant to say ended.



Yep those eps were great, but to my knowledge that season had far less fillers than season 10 no?..... lets count fillers in season 10..

1. Morpheus
2. Uninvited
3. 200
4. Memento Mori
5. Bounty
6. Bad Guys
7. Family Ties

over a 3rd of the eps were fillers and crap!



You call them epic? yes, i'd call some of them decent space battles but i was talking more along the lines of the kinda battle that we saw when the earth and allies fleet fought with the ori ships the first time they came through the gate. If memory serves me correct DS9 had space battles with much greater scope, realism and frequency. Im just saying i wish that the stargate writers would create more of an atmosphere that there was a real war and more 'fighting' would certainly do that!



The war only spanned seasons 6 & 7?!? have u even watched deep space nine? Season 5 layed the groundwork for the oncoming war action in season 6 and 7. There were 7 dominion centric episodes in season 5 of DS9, the same number of fillers in season 10 of SG1!

1. Apocalypse Rising
2. The Ship
3. Nor The Battle To The Strong
4. In Purgatory's Shadow (1)
5. By Inferno's Light (2)
6. Soldiers Of The Empire
7. Call To Arms (1)

First off that's your opinion and so is his so respect it. In your opinion they were crappy episodes in his and mine as well as others they wernt. I happen to like the fill eps and don't think they are pieces of crap and yes it is an excuse as they would have focused way more atention to the Ori if they had more notice. All but bounty and Uninvited were filler eps as they dealt with already established stories. all those eps were good or great IMO. I think it will go out with a bang and so far havent seen anything to tell me otherwise.

[Zamboni]

The stargate writers should have taken a lesson from the BSG writers. Even for fillers the BSG episodes were really intense and in most cases, advanced the main story arc in some way (or at least, laid foundations for future arcs).

Oh well no point complaining about it now, not like they're gonna reshoot the end or something.

No, the only hope for us is that in 10 years, George Lucas will buy off the franchise and re-edit all the space battles and insert 10 episodes involving the furlings which look surprisingly like certain creatures from episode six...

[the fifth man]

Personally, I've enjoyed almost all the so called "filler" episodes in Season 10 of SG-1. IMO, this season has been one of the show's finest.

[david2708]

Sacrelige!! To even mention Stargate in the same breath as the epic DS9.
Although you'd have to say Stargate is a bit of a joke in comparison-well-a big joke actually.

[ZatNKitel]

I've recently rediscovered DS9 - after watching it through as a kid, and I must say its far more epic complex and arc driven than Stargate. For me the real appeal of Deep Space Nine wasn’t just a large involved war, but the fact that the writers used the war to develop the characters, both main characters and the huge number of guest stars.

Looking back Stargate would have seemed somewhat comparable to DS9 if it had ended after season 8. However, the two shows have always been very different - SG-1 has always maintained a strong humor element, while DS9 was usually rather dark and gritty. You do have to admit that Deep Space Nine had some pretty bad episodes mixed in there (mainly early in the series).

If it came down to it I would say that Deep Space Nine was all in all a better written and executed show - but it suffered some because of a developing inaccessibility as the show went on. Stargate has focused more on independent stories - which are usually enjoyable. I do think that Stargate at its peak was (and probably still is to a lesser degree) one of the best science fiction television shows ever. I personally would place DS9 as the best science fiction television show.

I apologize for the rambling - just my two cents worth...

[freetoken]

FAZ - just because something doesn't appeal to your personal tastes doesn't mean that thing is bad! Several of the episodes you listed as bad are in fact pretty good TV.

Personally I never cared much for DS9 - too boring (characters, actors), more Socialism as Galactic Saviour (the theme of the Star Trek master story line), presenting totally alien (to humans) characters as being essentially human-character flawed (a real problem in sci-fi in general) etc.

Endless story themes (what you call 'arcs') help create a background in which to cast characters but they also make for an easy out if a writer is lacking for a new idea. When you have an endless war of A vs B, if you need another episode you just write about another battle in that war. The problem with these scenarios (and which SG1 also repeats, alas) is the lack of understanding of what a war really is, how costly it is, and the idea that a truly alien civilization would approach the whole process the same way as humans.


BTW, technically SG1 was not so much 'cancelled' but rather not renewed. Why is that important here? Because SG1 was not renewed because it is/was a bad show - on the contrary it is still good TV and one of SciFi's better rated hours. However it was clearly not in SciFi's business interests to pour more money into a show when a cheaper one (Atlantis) could bring in just as big (or slightly larger) crowds.

[ussrelativity]

I would like to see more heavier combat. If the Wraith ever send more hive ships at Atlantis, I would love to see drone salvos damaging them, along with 2 or 3 304s outmanuvering the Wraith.

Granted, this is slightly off-topic, but for the future of Stargate, this might be a nice idea.

[Bragi]

I don't agree with the original poster.

I like stand-alone episodes. I like the Ori, and I've liked the last four seasons more than the Showtime era.

I don't understand why so many people have this weird hyper-idealization of the first few seasons. They like to pretend that the show only started doing stand-alones, or using cheap gimmicks or cliche plot devices in the last two years, and that the Jack O'Neill years were one, very long continuos story arc that didn't take a single break from the Goa'uld-war plotline nor use any kind of cliche plot device or standard sci-fi narrative.

Hell, the last two seasons should stand out as the best simply because they didn't have clips shows. (Well, season 10 isn't finished yet, so there could still be a clips-show.)