Merlin's device in relation to ascended beings?

[Deckker]

We have always seen the ascended beings as all knowing, they are very powerful, they seem to have the power to do anything as they please. I mean look at the Ori Galaxy.

However Merlin's device creates a paradox, while they have a code of non-interference, Merlin found a way to hide his work from them. Which means he is "smarter" than the rest.

So does that mean the ascended beings are just as filled with mistakes, stupidity as humans in their own way?

[Sauron18]

Well, they don't know everything, and they certainly have their limits. They exist on a higher plane of existance, but that plane is also subject to rules similar to those of our plane, relatively anyways.

For example, distance is a factor for ascended beings. While they can get from one side of the galaxy to another, they can't get there immedeatley, but rather it takes them time to do so, enough to make them prefer stargate travel to simple travelling.

As such, their knowledge is also limited, and they can't oversee all dimensions. Merlin's device transports things to such a dimension, so that they can't reach it from their ascended plane. The fact that Merlin did this doesn't mean he's necessarily smarter than the rest, it just means he had a reason to use the knowledge.

[IcyNeko]

Uhhh... I think you're confusing quite a few things, Sauron18.

Ascended form ancients don't have to use stargate travel to go from one place to another. It is rather instantaneous. Daniel appears to Jack several times without going through a stargate (which would trigger alarms). Daniel witnessed Rya'c and Bra'tac's capture in secrecy.

I think the only time we see ancients using stargates is when they either take partial physical form or when they have just ascended. The times we've seen it... Oma took partial physical form in order for her to interact with Shifu (carry him). Shifu took full/partial human form to interact with Daniel. Daniel was in partial human form when he ascended. All three cases required use of the stargate because they were still in a partial state.

[SaberBlade]

It's been made perfectly clear that being ascended doesn't make you all knowing, so Merlin as a Lantean would have been one of the smartest people alive, even more so if he continued to study and educate himself when he was ascended.

So in fact, you could say he was smarter than them to create the weapon, but not smarter than them to hide what he was planning on doing. If he was that smart, he wouldn't have needed to shift himself to another dimension to work without interference.

[Blitz]

Easy point to make -

Ascended beings are all knowing (Ori and Alterans)

SO, even though the Alterans hid the Milky Way - The Ori would know about it if their all knowing. They should of noticed gravitational pulls and other things..yet they didnt.

Much the same way the Ori could hide something from the Alterans if they wanted (Im assuming here)....so like someone else said

The ascended plain has its own rules and boundaries...they cant JUST create something...which a being all powerful could....they cant just change time, they cant do a lot of things.

[Sauron18]

Ascended form ancients don't have to use stargate travel to go from one place to another. It is rather instantaneous. Daniel appears to Jack several times without going through a stargate (which would trigger alarms). Daniel witnessed Rya'c and Bra'tac's capture in secrecy.

They don't need to use it to move around the universe, no, but they can't travel instantaneousley from place to place, this was my point.

They can move independently through the universe, but at a limited speed, not immedeatley. This has been shown before, as well as the fact that using the stargate is quicker than going alone.

Yes, they're quick, but the stargate is quicker, and if need be they will use it. Remember Athar? She was an ascended being who was allowed quite a bit of power, and she used the stargate to move from one planet to another instantaneously.

I think the only time we see ancients using stargates is when they either take partial physical form or when they have just ascended. The times we've seen it... Oma took partial physical form in order for her to interact with Shifu (carry him). Shifu took full/partial human form to interact with Daniel. Daniel was in partial human form when he ascended. All three cases required use of the stargate because they were still in a partial state.

Again, we've seen little of ascended beings doing their things, but of what we have seen we can see that they do require a stargate to travel great distances instantaneously.

I reference Athar once again. She showed us that Ascended beings, although powerful, are limited by distance. They're quick, but a stargate is quicker, and though within a solar system it may seem like they can go anywhere instantaneously (Full Circle), it does take time for them to move across greater distances (Sanctuary).

[BuggyMan]

SO, even though the Alterans hid the Milky Way - The Ori would know about it if their all knowing. They should of noticed gravitational pulls and other things..yet they didnt.

I think they didn't hide our galaxy but rather the life in it. But I agree that ascended beings are not omniscient.
I am not sure if they can travel instantaneous to other places. They are still bound by the laws of physics as they are still part of the universe. So unless the (sg-)universe allows instantaneous travel in some way it is impossible for them just like for us. Even if there was some way, they could be oblivious to it.
But they certainly can use hyperspace (or something better) to travel. We can do it with hyperdrives so I think they could have an even easier way to do that.

[dispader]

I think they didn't hide our galaxy but rather the life in it. But I agree that ascended beings are not omniscient.
I am not sure if they can travel instantaneous to other places. They are still bound by the laws of physics as they are still part of the universe. So unless the (sg-)universe allows instantaneous travel in some way it is impossible for them just like for us. Even if there was some way, they could be oblivious to it.
But they certainly can use hyperspace (or something better) to travel. We can do it with hyperdrives so I think they could have an even easier way to do that.

I agree. I also wonder (spoilers from The Shroud)...

Spoiler:

If the Ori can even see what goes on in our galaxy. They know it is there but do the Ancients/Others block their veiw so to speak. If that is the case they may not have even been aware that the Sangrael was comming thru the supergate seconds from going off.

[JanusAncient]

A lot is wrong with that whole Merlin debacle. But, it isn't that he was smarter, it's that he was the only one willing to create the weapon. Adria should be able to figure out the weapon, as stated by someone else, given enough time. So, if it was a one shot deal, she should be able to create another. So, the Ancient's might disappear in the movie. Ascended beings aren't all knowing, but they know enough to make it appear that way. They know the big stuff, galaxy wide wars, the Sangraal. The Ori knew about it, and even if they didn't know that it was coming through the Supergate, they had to have known that the Supergate was active. And, Adria didn't appear to be on her way through to their galaxy, with that weapon onboard so, they had to have figured something out, otherwise the writers are making them as stupid as the Goa'uld.

[dispader]

Maybe not as stupid but perhaps exponentially more arrogant.

[Coremae]

Adria could never use Merlin's weapon in the milky way galaxy. I know that the Alterans have a non interference clause, but with their butts on the line... run Adria run.