The origin of Origin?

[unknown.entity]

For Origin to start, it would require the presence of an ascended being (to worship). Now, we know Origin was the reason the Ancients left their home world. Does that imply that there were ascended Ori present at that time? If so, why didn't the ascended Ori simply wipe them out using their powers? It's not like there were ascended Ancients to stop them back then.

Also, why would the remaining Alteran population believe in Origin when they were the ones who made up the religion?

[any_gopher]

I don't think it was so much the Origin religion that drove away the Alterans, but rather the rift between the Alterans and those would later become known as the Ori. That's just my wild guess.

[SaberBlade]

Both Ancients and Orii were on an evolutionary path to ascention, but neither had achieved it yet.

Origin is something that should have happened when they decided to create life and have them worship them. Create life, let it evolve and when you ascended and the life you have created has evolved enough, then would be the best time to give them Origin so people can freely worship you. Creating the religion before having the worshippers would be getting way ahead of themselves.

[mlund05]

didnt someone in one of early season 9 episodes say something about the ori telling there followers in the their galaxy that they were created like 10000 years ago even there was some evidence to the contrary?

[SaberBlade]

Evidence was found that there was a race of humans that predated what the Orii claimed was the creation time of the current people, however I can't recall it ever been said this was 10,000 years ago.

The Orii could have said "we created your life 10,000 years ago" which would completely ignore the fact the people they created had to evolve. Anything like technology or even basic cave paintings could have made them doubt origin. Or they could have said "we created you 100,000 years ago and watched you evolve and grow" in which case, the alien technology would have been the reason they doubted origin.

Either way, Origin was trying to cover something like the fact Ancients or Orii were human or even existed as knowing their gods were once human could sort of screw things up. Once people stop believing, their power would fall fast because they wouldn't have people to feed on.

I just thought they meant they had proof about the existance of Ancients or the Orii before they left/ascended because they had found advanced technology. To me it was like the Orii were trying to hide their own mortal existance or the existance of the Ancients, which in turn would hide the fact there was a whole other civilisation, a mortal civilsation, before them

[An-Alteran]

For Origin to start, it would require the presence of an ascended being (to worship). Now, we know Origin was the reason the Ancients left their home world. Does that imply that there were ascended Ori present at that time? If so, why didn't the ascended Ori simply wipe them out using their powers? It's not like there were ascended Ancients to stop them back then.

Also, why would the remaining Alteran population believe in Origin when they were the ones who made up the religion?

I think the devide was over this:
The Ori ewanted to better themselves to become better than others.

The Alterans wanted to better themselves to become better than they once were.

One is selfish and greed centered,
the other is merely self-centered.

[nerus]

The Alterans and the Ori fell out due to their different personalities. The Ori belived acesion was a religious thing and the Alterans scientific. So the Ori tried to destory the Alterans.

[IcyNeko]

42

[jenks]

didnt someone in one of early season 9 episodes say something about the ori telling there followers in the their galaxy that they were created like 10000 years ago even there was some evidence to the contrary?

Sounds familiar

[Peoples_General]

For Origin to start, it would require the presence of an ascended being (to worship). Now, we know Origin was the reason the Ancients left their home world. Does that imply that there were ascended Ori present at that time? If so, why didn't the ascended Ori simply wipe them out using their powers? It's not like there were ascended Ancients to stop them back then.

Also, why would the remaining Alteran population believe in Origin when they were the ones who made up the religion?

Here's what I think happened back in the Altera galaxy 50million or so years ago...

--------

The Alterans were 1 people, they were very advanced with technology, but at the same time, they were also a spiritual people.

One group believed in Free Will, letting things be as they become. They were spiritual themselves, but they weren't fanatical about it. They saw spirituality along with technology as part of gaining wisdom and knowledge about the universe.

Another group, had a more "Group Mentality" about them. They were spiritual and decided to focus on this and became fanatical. They also viewed technology as something they could use to enhance their dogma around the universe, feeling that they are GODS for they were creating humans along planets in their galaxy.

Soon, they somehow grew apart, due to their differences. Then both groups started to evolve to the point where they can ascend. So now you have Ascended Ori and Ascended Ancient living in the same galaxy. They fought a devastating Ascended War with the Ancients being driven away along with their un-ascended Ancient breatheren.

Due to the Ancient's many experimentations they caused a lot of problems. Thus the Ori saying that the Ancients (who did not agree with the Ori fanaticism and thus "Strayed from the Path") were evil.

It is from this that we get the qoutes saying that the Ori came and laid low the evil ones (Ancients).

Soon enough, the Ancients were driven off and they wandered the universe until they came upon the Milky Way and made a new home for themselves.

Meanwhile the Ori remained in the Altera galaxy and gained power in that galaxy. Soon, to keep their followers from discovering anything about the Ancients they hid those Ancient devices incase that might corrupt some of the people into "turning away from Origin".

[ogre_one]

Greetings, new member here with an interesting question. My apologies if this sounds a little too Daniel Jackson. I know origin was a commentary on organized religion versus independent beliefs, but has anyone ever heard this was directly aimed at Christianity? According to wikipedia, there was an early Christian scholar/theologian, and one of the most distinguished early fathers of the Christian Church, whose name was Origen Adamantius. It wouldn't be the first time SG writers skewed a former or current religion.

[Fan-e-Gate]

Greetings, new member here with an interesting question. My apologies if this sounds a little too Daniel Jackson. I know origin was a commentary on organized religion versus independent beliefs, but has anyone ever heard this was directly aimed at Christianity? According to wikipedia, there was an early Christian scholar/theologian, and one of the most distinguished early fathers of the Christian Church, whose name was Origen Adamantius. It wouldn't be the first time SG writers skewed a former or current religion.

No I haven't actually heard about it.
Personally I don't think so as generally stargate has avoided commentary on current religions.
That said I felt that their commentary on Origin could have easily been about Christianity. I mean no offence to anyone and of course this is my pure opinion.
eg. The Ori/ancients/alterrans/ascended beings seeded life.
They have the power to change the direction of people. They can guide people and gift them for being good etc.
The Ori galaxy people felt comfort in knowing about them

Of course the only real difference is that we know that the Ori were once normal people and that they are evil. That and they don't offer freewill but that is because they are evil.
but I felt it was hypocritical of the SG team to talk about Origin's shortcomings (esp one of the Daniel episodes. Can't remember which)

Again I am not Christian and I don't mean any offence.

[akren]

Insofar as I have been able to acern for myself & IMVHO, the Origin faith seems to have been conceived by the Orii after their Ascension in their home galaxy. As unknown.entity said, the Orii would have to be Ascended first before creating a religion to worship them as gods, otherwise the energy transference gleaned from their followers believe in them would be for moot.

According to Merlin, the Orii had the best of intentions when they stated (to guide the lowers on the mortal plane on their way of thinking), but as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

There are a lot of positive merits to Origin, which I feel weren't touched upon nearly enough as the doom & gloom (makes for better viewing ); although there are references thrown in here & there throughout the series (most notably in 'Line in the Sand' [s10] & SG SG-1: AoT). One nice example I can give is : "And Lestus said to the people of the Low Planes, emulate not the behaviour of your neighbors, lest their sins take purchase in your own house' (i.e.: do unto to others as you would have them do unto you & don't engauge in bad behaviour that others do unless it brings you down, too).

The Orii seem became corrupted by their power they gained from their followers, instituted dogma (banning & 'removal' of any heretical act/object/person that contridicts the Book of Origin, their followers supposed creation @ the hands of the Orii XxXxX years ago, etc), the Priors twisted the words in the Book of Origin during the invasion of the Milkyway to justify their 'Holy Crusade', & somewhere alone the way; like, it unfortunately seems, many people & many religious & spiritual paths, they became lost along the way, their morals less than noble & inturpertation by others along the way (not ragging on anyone's beliefs, just MVHO & personal feelings on the matter).

As for veiled references to Christainity, the only one that comes to mind is when Daniel mentions to Vala in Origin that the central icon is fire & that is it seen as good on Earth until the MNiddle Ages, when it is seen as bad, which the Ascended Ancients may or may not have something ot do with (we are never told or eloborated on this point); alrthough writers have tried to steer clear of this point for various & somewhat obvious reasons.

As a roughish thief once said 'getting there [Ascension] & bettering ourselves might just be what its all about'.

[Anubis-]

According to Merlin, the Orii had the best of intentions when they stated (to guide the lowers on the mortal plane on their way of thinking), but as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

If I remember correctly, that was Orlin, not Merlin who says that?

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

If I remember correctly, that was Orlin, not Merlin who says that?

Nope, it was actually Merlin who said that in the second part of "The Quest".