Teyla

[GhostPoet]

Ok, I like all the other characters in the show. But this one seems to just have nothing going for her. It's not the actress fault, it's the material (or lack of) she is given. Occasionally she has a great moment. But she has no real PURPOSE...nothing drives her.

So, this thread is here in hopes of making figure out something to improve her character...something maybe the writers will notice and find interesting.

We already have her trying to save her people from the Wraith, but the Wraith are not going to be that big this season and possibly next, what with a new enemy and all. So that purpose goes down the drain.

The same goes for her wraith-genes. If the Wraith are going to be a secondary villain, that really does nothing for her and it hasn't in the past either.

Why is she there? What is her driving points? What is her past like? Is it all just boring farmer-type life? Or did she come from a darker past before that? Something that drove her to live in a small community.

I'd like to see more grit rubbed into the characters life. Maybe she wasn't always so nice and friendly. What if she had a darker past? What if she was a creation by some other race. Something to fight the Wraith and she was sort of a hitman. Stuff happened and then she broke free and lived a quiet life with farmers until SGA came onto the scene and woke up the Wraith. Something like THAT...

Any ideas?

[jds1982]

Well we know she lived with her father and the other Athosians on that one planet for quite a while. I agree that they need to give her more of a backstory, because all she's really been since season one is a prop. They just pull her out when they need a sensitive person or need to connect with the Wraith or their tech, and when they're done with her it's back to the closet.

[FoolishPleasure]

I think she is fairly pretty, but boring as heck (the stick fighting/warrior thing doesn't count as true character development to me). With all the rumors of SGA losing a reg, I think she would be the easiest to replace.

I've never liked her, but I think most folks around here already know that. ;)

[The Sweet Guy]

I'm not a fan of Teyla but I'd hate to see her replaced. The writers just need to put some effort in and actually develop her. Why waste the 3 years of development (what little there may be) to replace with someone new. They've already replaced Ford, why another?

[Descent]

I'm not a fan of Teyla but I'd hate to see her replaced. The writers just need to put some effort in and actually develop her. Why waste the 3 years of development (what little there may be) to replace with someone new. They've already replaced Ford, why another?

Very good point ----> :beckett: :eek:

Teyla just needs to be written for more. The writers need to STOP relying on Sheppard and Mckay so much.

[saberhagen83]

I'm not a fan of Teyla but I'd hate to see her replaced. The writers just need to put some effort in and actually develop her. Why waste the 3 years of development (what little there may be) to replace with someone new. They've already replaced Ford, why another?

Agreed. They really need to work on Teyla. It would get rather boring and stupid if they just threw out a charcater that hasn't got developed, like Ford. They need to start making a ep or two that could focus on her character.

[The Ori]

In my opinion it's TPTB's fault they can make her so much more interesting and show sum depth in her, but they haven't they should go into her back story!!

But this season there seems to be even less of her!! I swear stargate could go on forever and still be sooo goood!!

[Dr McKay]

im sure with some better stories we will grow to love her, but at the moment, she seems to speek a few lines per episode then have an episode where she has a big involvement here and there but thats it, its a real shame, because she is a good character and could be great with more stories :D

[tears of blood]

to replace with someone new. They've already replaced Ford, why another?

to replace a character you pretty much need to write a backstory for them and give them a purpose for being there, much like how Ronon got his much needed episode(Sateda) a replacement for Teyla would need a genuine reason to be a part of the Atlantis team and to fight against the wraith, otherwise you"l run the risk of the character becoming old and stale to the audience.

this is proberly one of the reasons why it hasnt been considered if at all

that being said its still early days for Atlantis if nothing has changed for Teyla by season 4 by some degree then you should be worried and be assuming she"l get replaced, as for now just hope she gets better.

[SerpentGuard]

Maybe the writers should make her ascend and then come back later, or they should send Teyla to Earth or have the Athosians re-locate to Earth or someting to give them a story...

I'd love to see more Athosian based episodes, with Halling and Jinto (characters we havn't seen since the begining)

[GateLadyM]

The writers have had three years to turn Teyla into something interesting but she is still a wallflower in a tank top. I gave up on her last season.

Now with talk of bringing over SG1 characters I can see Teyla disappearing and Vala coming in and it would certainly bring some much needed pizzazz. While I doubt they would do that, it would tweak my interest. :)

[tears of blood]

The writers have had three years to turn Teyla into something interesting but she is still a wallflower in a tank top. I gave up on her last season.

Now with talk of bringing over SG1 characters I can see Teyla disappearing and Vala coming :)

that wouldnt really flow very well, Vala has no real relationship with any of the SGA Characters, so in reality she"l just be Vala in a different surrounding, this is something personally i wouldnt like to see, if any of the Cast from SG1 should appear in SGA, it would more likely be Carter.. since she has a relationship with Mckay, shes intelligent, the humour and banter between both Mckay and Carter during the episodes in itself would be more intresting then Vala, dont get me wrong Claudia Black is a great actress but she belongs more on SG1 since she flows well with the other characters/actors, (her relationship with Daniel) and the almost mutual respect from the Mitchell and Teal"c characters.

Besides the future of SG1 is still up in the air at the moment.

[travis]

Well I peronally like Teyla though there's not really much of her recently. I think the character has a lots of potential. I really hate for them to kill her off as thats just a lame excuse to bring some one else in. I mean come on their writers arn't they, where's the creativity. This is sci-fi there really no excuse in IMO. I think they could sacrafice McKay and insert more Teyla. I just think that Mckay get to much screen time and story. Any way I do hope they do make use of her character in the second half of season 3.:)

[Easter Lily]

Well I peronally like Teyla though there's not really much of her recently. I think the character has a lots of potential. I really hate for them to kill her off as thats just a lame excuse to bring some one else in. I mean come on their writers arn't they, where's the creativity. This is sci-fi there really no excuse in IMO. I think they could sacrafice McKay and insert more Teyla. I just think that Mckay get to much screen time and story. Any way I do hope they do make use of her character in the second half of season 3.:)
I suspect that they find writing McKay a lot easier and a lot more fun than writing about Teyla. ;)
She's not a bad character... just underused. The character has spurts of activity and then gets relegated into the background. Obviously they're using her more and more as a sounding board for various characters but it'll be nice to see her make things happen for a change.
It's a sad indictment on the writing that of the two aliens, Ronon... the relative newcomer has much more distinctive qualities. And I agree with the original post, I would like to have seen Teyla as more of driven character. However, I doubt they can do too much with that now... she's pretty much fixed in a mould.

[Linzi]

I like Teyla. I would agree she has been underused at times, but I certainly don't think she's useless or needs replacing. Why is it so many say, 'I don't like so and so, they're useless, so let's replace her/him?'
There are some characters on SGA I like alot more than others, some I don't think are great characters, some I haven't warmed to, a couple that are inconsistently written for, some who just seem a little boring to me. At times some of the actors performances haven't been solid enough for me, resulting in me not being convinced of a characters role in the show.
However, I don't want any of them to be replaced. That would change the dynamic of the show, and I like the dynamic how it is.
Teyla's a member of Sheppard's team and as such is important in that right alone. The show, for me, is all about that team of four people, with a couple of Atlantis based characters included in the mix from time to time.
Her wraith DNA storyline in season 1 was interesting, and has been used from time to time in subsequent episodes, as her ability to sense the wraith, helping the team to know when the wraith are around, and that alone has been helpful, and been her primary purpose on the show.
I think she's a very pretty woman, or at least I should say Rachel is, as she looks like Teyla! It doesn't bother me what she wears, to be honest. Both the regular female characters wear a fair amount of make-up and sometimes wear tight, figure hugging clothes to accentuate their feminity. I personally don't have a problem with that.
I do think, however, there is a difficulty writing for the stoic, graceful and wise alien warrior role. Teyla's speech is restricted to maintain her 'alienness', and this makes it difficult for her to blend in with humans, and sometimes her dialogue is a little stilted. I don't see how that can be resolved as that would change who she is. For some reason Ronon uses contractions, and Teyla generally doesn't, which, again, can make Teyla seem a little distant, or 'unworldly'.
So, I'd like to see more Teyla and her interactions with the team, but I think I know already who she is and what her purpose is, so, for me, although I'd like to see more of her at times, and see more development of her character, I'm not unhappy with Teyla.

[Cat_the_Alien]

I can definitely see some potential with Teyla, especially in terms of her relationships with the others. There's some pretty obvious chemistry between her and Ronan, and relationship with Sheppard seems like it could become something special (in a fraternal, non-romantic way). I see there could be some major friction between Teyla and Weir, an avenue that's not been explored. I don't believe that a natural leader such as Teyla would willingly lie down and submit to an alien authority. As much as she may want to accept Wier's decisions, in real life, there would most likely be friction, culminating in a power struggle. Instead, Teyla seems to just go along with everything her buddy Elizabeth says these days. (Guess who's taking a Personality course. ;) )

I think Teyla has a lot of potential. There are so few female characters in the vast "out there" of television who are portrayed as strong leaders, and not controlling, psychotic fem-nazis or weak, ineffectual individuals who need male support to make decisions. All in all though, I'm not a huge fan of her character as she is right now, and I wouldn't shed tears if she was replaced (unless they did an incredibly sad death scene, a la Full Circle, which has me bawling every time I see it).

[GhostPoet]

Well we know she lived with her father and the other Athosians on that one planet for quite a while. I agree that they need to give her more of a backstory, because all she's really been since season one is a prop. They just pull her out when they need a sensitive person or need to connect with the Wraith or their tech, and when they're done with her it's back to the closet.


Yup, you're right.

It's amazing...three seasons and she has changed from her first appearance...
I'd be shocked if they end up getting rid of the character the rumors are talking about...he has more character development than she has BY FAR.

[Descent]

They need to provide something fresh for both the character and Rachel to use. Like they did with her and Sora in Season 1.

[GhostPoet]

I can definitely see some potential with Teyla, especially in terms of her relationships with the others. There's some pretty obvious chemistry between her and Ronan, and relationship with Sheppard seems like it could become something special (in a fraternal, non-romantic way). I see there could be some major friction between Teyla and Weir, an avenue that's not been explored. I don't believe that a natural leader such as Teyla would willingly lie down and submit to an alien authority. As much as she may want to accept Wier's decisions, in real life, there would most likely be friction, culminating in a power struggle. Instead, Teyla seems to just go along with everything her buddy Elizabeth says these days. (Guess who's taking a Personality course. ;) )

I think Teyla has a lot of potential. There are so few female characters in the vast "out there" of television who are portrayed as strong leaders, and not controlling, psychotic fem-nazis or weak, ineffectual individuals who need male support to make decisions. All in all though, I'm not a huge fan of her character as she is right now, and I wouldn't shed tears if she was replaced (unless they did an incredibly sad death scene, a la Full Circle, which has me bawling every time I see it).

Yeah, I'd love to see her become a strong female role model. Right now she's just there to agree with everyone. I think one of the few episodes I really enjoyed her in was the one where everyone except her was influenced by that device recently...other than that...I would barely notice if she wasn't there anymore.

[Kirath]

Its just like Ford. The character has great potential but they don't give the character anything to do or set him/her apart. There are tons of potential stories ideas for Teyla and the Athosians. I just hope they don't get rid of the character because its easier to just have Hewlett and Flanningan shoot one liners back and forth.

[GhostPoet]

I did think about having her people wiped out and then having that failure haunt her of not being able to save them...but we already have the tough, hard-hearted hero in Ronan...
She needs to offer something different from the rest of the group. I've been thinking hard on what that is...and so far I just can't think of it.

We have the hero, we have the brains/ego, we have the tough guy, we have the leader and we have the moral compass/doctor...

What is missing here?

[Kirath]

Its not about her filling a specific formula. Teyla needs to evolve into her own person with her own voice,goals emotional baggage etc.. We haven't had a Teyla-centric episode since The Gift. most of us could think of 20 or so half decent Teyla story ideas just sitting on our couch why can't the writers?

[The Sweet Guy]

I'd say Critical Mass was the last big Teyla episode, though she was only supporting in it.

This has been my only major complaint about Season 3. They have been writing a lot more character-based episodes (Sateda, Real World, M&MM, Common Ground and Phantoms to an extent) but Teyla still hasn't got much to work with besides interaction with Sheppard

[Descent]

Yeah. Critical Mass was the last time she got anything important to do. I mean, Weir even got an episode this season, why not Teyla?

[Jeyla4ever]

Well, I guess you guys forgot Michael as another very good Teyla episode and she was great in Allies as well...

It's a shame that people can't get past the idea that Teyla is a poster girl....She is that but so much more.....way more....

For me, she is the best developed character thus far....the so called centric episodes don't phase me and have not been the best episodes at all...
As a Teyla fan, I don't need to see Teyla continously to appreciatiate her role....and as far as story lines she has had enough to see how well her character has grown while still maintaining her identity as a leader, warrior and liasion for the people of earth...

All I have to say is that the writers may not have concentrated on Teyla this season..that I won't deny, but the little they have given her is significant....

She's not there as the ultimate main character...and I guess there was a lack of other characters that required priority this season.....

For me, the writers spoke beautiful of how they view Teyla....while everyone else on the team back on Earth either missed Teyla or were hitting rock bottom in depression or were anxious to get back to the fight, Teyla was recongnized as a skillful person and worthy of joining the Genii's, continued to lead her people even against the odds, and was able to find other avenues to protect and fight against the Wraith.....

I think the writers know exactly where they want to take her and know the potential of this character...but they can't have her be the center of attention....

Personally, I think the best episodes are the team focused episodes....Phantoms, Irresistible, Misbegotten, Sateda, The Return, are just a few that I really enjoyed this season because they involved the team...for me, I get more character development from these episodes than from any character centric episode....

Teyla is one of those characters and there aren't many that can stand next to Caldwell and still hold her head high, that can put down Rodney with a wink in her eye, that can hold Sheppard down with just a glance, that can whip Ronon's butt with just calling his name, that can lead Atlantis without needing Weir next to her, that can care for a wounded should Carson need assistance...and that can fight any ship like any pro Wraith....and still whip the new enemies while holding a P-90 in her hands...

If that isn't a great character, I have no clue what is....

[travis]

I suspect that they find writing McKay a lot easier and a lot more fun than writing about Teyla. ;)
She's not a bad character... just underused. The character has spurts of activity and then gets relegated into the background. Obviously they're using her more and more as a sounding board for various characters but it'll be nice to see her make things happen for a change.
It's a sad indictment on the writing that of the two aliens, Ronon... the relative newcomer has much more distinctive qualities. And I agree with the original post, I would like to have seen Teyla as more of driven character. However, I doubt they can do too much with that now... she's pretty much fixed in a mould.
I'm sure they do. We all know that he's great and funny and that he can be written into any story so even more reason to work on Teyla.
It's just that he's kinda like teachers pet(so to speak) so others in turn gets neglected. Though they might not have an ep on Teyla for the rest of the season but surely they can make here character more active so that sha is part of the team, not just an alien character thats used for convenience.

[bluealien]

I find Teyla one of the most interesting and facinating characters on the show. She doesn't have to get loads of screen time to show me that. The two characters that take up most of the screentime are Sheppard and McKay and as they are the leads the show it will remain that way.

I love team eps and we have had a good share of them this season where Teyla played just an important a role as any of the other team members. She is just as important to the team as Ronan or McKay. She has many amazing qualities and has shown us her strenght and wisdom on many ocasions. Being a member of Sheppards team is important enough on its own. Do we expect Sheppard to go through the gate each week with just McKay to watch his back and as much as Ronan is a strong warrior he is also a bit of a loose canon. Would Sheppard have been able to resue Ronan in Sateda without Teylas help. Would the team even be alive (Rodney most certainly would not have been) in Phantoms if it had not been for Teyla - and she even got to save the day in that ep.

Would the team have gotten out of so many scrapes with the Wraith if Teyla had not been able to sence their presence in time to warn her team. She is also the voice of reason - which sadly Weir has lacked on too many occasions. Teyla plays a very important role on Atlantis and I don't need to see a whole Teyla centric episode to make me appreciate this. Background eps to me are a bit overated. I don't need to get in depth details of their past lives as with Weir in TRW - it bored me to death. I much prefer team eps where everyone gets to do something and as I have said we have had a good share of these this season.

Ronan hardly gets more than a few lines per episode, Carson doesn't even feature in every episode but yet I love both of these characters because like Teyla when they do feature they are fantastic. Atlantis will continue to feature more Sheppard, as he is the leading man and McKay as others have said seems to be a writers dream, but to me they have also given us great moments with Teyla, Ronan and Carson and I have enjoyed all of them.

I look forward to many more Teyla scenes and am confident that we will see more of her in the second half of the season.

[the fifth man]

Yeah. Critical Mass was the last time she got anything important to do. I mean, Weir even got an episode this season, why not Teyla?

Well, the season is only half over. She may still play an important role in some of the last 10 eps this season. Although sadly, it is kind of doubtful.:( TPTB really have seemed to push her aside for the most part.

[MacGyver`]

I agree to a certain extent. The writers just need to focus more on her development, just like the way they did with John and McKay.

[spirited Chihiro]

I dont think teyla is useless in season 3 at all!!! Sure she doesnt have a lot to say, but what she does say and when and how she says it is perfect!! Like others have said....her character has the ability to observe and act only when it is necessary and appropriate. For example, in phantoms..she paid obvious attention to rodney and who was it that ultimately saved the team?

It would be fabulous for us to get a specific Teyla episode, but from what i hear for the 2nd half of this series, there could be some major teyla moments, which would be excellent!!! i cant wait!!

But i dont think people should say that she is doing nothing...sure she might not be saying a lot...but she is often the voice of reason, and her actions in many of the episodes show just the impact her character can have!

Dont know how much this made sense...bit late here
But...what i want people to understand is that sure we all want teyla to say more and be seen more...but she hasnt been useless at all!

[seldear]

As Kiath noted, I don't think that a character in a show should be relegated to merely a role. "The pretty one" "the intelligent one" "the clever, yet sensitive one".

Stereotyping much?

I'm still quite angry that there will be no episode exploring Teyla's background in Season Three, although I didn't think much of The Real World as a character piece for Weir. It showcased some lovely acting by Torri, but told us very little that we didn't already know about Weir, and almost nothing that has any relevance to her time and place in Atlantis.

In truth, even Teyla's part in Critical Mass had no relevance to Atlantis the city. She got to interact with Carson, but there was no sign that the other characters (Weir, Sheppard, Rodney, Ronon) were even aware that her mentor died.

As other people have noted, Sheppard and McKay get the lion's share of stories - it's old, familiar ground for writers: two white males - the action hero and the geeky technical second. By comparison, Teyla, Weir, Ronon, and Carson all are left out in the cold when it comes to actual episodes showcasing not only their acting skills but also their character developments and plotlines in the show.

Teyla's handicap and advantage is that she doesn't fit any of the pre-designed (or, as some may note, preordained) stereotypical roles for a sci-fi show, and doesn't have a functional position in the show of her own right.

A bold set of writers, willing to step out into uncharted territory, could take the character a long way. Since Teyla, as a character, moves fluidly between roles - a kind of Pegasus "Everyman" - there are no limits to where she can go. Sheppard will always be hampered by the "must be a hero" hat, Rodney by his "must be technologically brilliant", Weir by "must be a strong, female leader" - but those characters are bound by Earth limits: what is possible on Earth. Teyla isn't from Earth - what we think of as 'the norm' has nothing to do with her except in our minds, a prejudice that we allow to hobble our perceptions of her and what she can do. (Witness the people who still think of her as definable solely by her clothing.)

Unfortunately, it is easier to just dismiss the character, claim she's boring, that there's no backstory to tell, and that she doesn't serve any purpose - whether verbally, on blogs and forums, or in action, by cutting her out of the show's plotlines and reducing her to nothing more than a dismissive mention in a fanfic.

Teyla is not being used to her full capacity in the show right now. I can guarantee she will never be - but then, neither will Carson, Ronon, or Weir.

I would, however, like to see more about her interactions with Weir, Carson, and Rodney in particular, more about her people and her people's customs, and her integration into Atlantis. Scenes here, scenes there, and an episode that allows us to look at not only what she's capable of now, but where she comes from and how that affects her position and interactions in Atlantis.

Every second TV show features a military guy with a hero complex, an intelligent scientist with bad social skills, a woman struggling to lead strong personalities in an unconventional scenario. (Yeesh. I just realised that those descriptions perfectly describe Booth, Brennan, and the new boss in the TV show Bones. QED.)

Let's see the innovative and inventive development of a woman from a culture that truly lives communally, that believes in prophecy and mysticism but will fight with advanced weaponry, that has been reduced to a lower level of technology from a higher one, that carries none of the social baggage for a female leader.

I'd be cheering it, even if nobody else in the science-fiction universe was.

Sel.

[ColCaldwell]

Well what that can do to help her out is downgrade characters that are way over used, i.e. Sheppard.

[Luz]

Well what that can do to help her out is downgrade characters that are way over used, i.e. Sheppard.
Nah! tptb know McKay and Sheppard are the most well liked characters, and this would never happen.
I wonder if tptb know the difference between Teyla and the furniture, most of the time she's just standing there in the background looking pretty but not doing much else.

[maxbo]

This need to stereotype characters and the difficulty in finding a suitable little character-type box for Teyla seems to be the main reason for the 1,001 "Teyla is boring, let's get rid of her" posts. Because Teyla doesn't really fit into any one clearly defined character-type, some fans don't know how to deal with her so they want her gone. Some viewers say that she's just the alien babe, but she's not. Other viewers say that she's just a warrior princess type, but she's not, and the list goes on.

I, on the other hand, love that Teyla is a complex character that doesn't fit within a nice little stereotypical character niche. Because she's not from Earth, she's not limited by Earth customs so her storyline possibilities are unlimited. All she needs are writers who can think outside the box to fully realize her potential. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone on the current SGA writing staff can deliver the goods so I've had to temper my expectations.

Based on what the current writing staff has given us, I've been more pleased than disappointed with what I've seen of Teyla - more because of what Rachel has brought to the role than because of the writing. She seems to have such a good grasp of her character that I can easily imagine Teyla's background and get a taste of Teyla's world, even if the writing falls short.

As for Season 3, despite the lack of Teyla screen time, I've been enjoying it because what I've seen of Teyla, I've loved. Season 3 has had more of a Team feeling and the Team interaction is the glue that holds my interest in SGA.

Would I like to see more Teyla scenes? Of course, I would (she's my favorite character), but I don't want to see more Teyla scenes at the expense of the other characters nor do I want to see a lot of meaningless scenes for Teyla, like some of the meaningless scenes given to Sheppard and McKay. The writers love for Sheppard and McKay hasn't always been a good thing for those characters. The one advantage of the lack of screen time for Teyla is that she entered Season 3 the least damaged. I don't want the writers to start writing more for her if it means that they will damage the character.

It's been good to see TPTB try to balance things a bit more this season, even in the character-centric episodes, however, they still have a long way to go.

[ToasterOnFire]

I think the problems with Teyla's lack of development comes down to two things:

1) Her role is difficult to define. It could be TPTB's attempt to not stick her character into a stereotypical role of geek/military/tough guy/etc, but I see it more as TPTB not knowing what her role is, and that uncertainty leaks over onto the screen. I don't get the feeling that they've sat down and mapped out who Teyla is and where she's going (I don't think they've done that for most of the characters either, but Teyla in particular is really standing out this season). This uncertainly ultimately leads to Teyla getting throw-away lines, chewing scenery, and overall wasted opportunities for her development.

2) She's a woman. Over the years, TPTB have convinced me that they prefer writing for men (Jack, Daniel, McKay, Shep) than women (Teyla, Weir, Carter, heck even though Vala gets lots of screentime she doesn't really get substantial storylines compared to the other newbie Mitchell). They also prefer focusing on male-male friendships (Jack and Daniel, Shep and McKay) and haven't really shown solid female-female friendships since Sam and Janet. Weir/Teyla gets a nod only once a season or so, and according to interviews a lot of the Sam/Vala friendship has ended up on the cutting room floor. This won't change unless TPTB actively addresses it or unless they bring in new writers who will put more of the focus on the women.

[GhostPoet]

This need to stereotype characters and the difficulty in finding a suitable little character-type box for Teyla seems to be the main reason for the 1,001 "Teyla is boring, let's get rid of her" posts. Because Teyla doesn't really fit into any one clearly defined character-type, some fans don't know how to deal with her so they want her gone. Some viewers say that she's just the alien babe, but she's not. Other viewers say that she's just a warrior princess type, but she's not, and the list goes on.

I, on the other hand, love that Teyla is a complex character that doesn't fit within a nice little stereotypical character niche. Because she's not from Earth, she's not limited by Earth customs so her storyline possibilities are unlimited. All she needs are writers who can think outside the box to fully realize her potential. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone on the current SGA writing staff can deliver the goods so I've had to temper my expectations.

Based on what the current writing staff has given us, I've been more pleased than disappointed with what I've seen of Teyla - more because of what Rachel has brought to the role than because of the writing. She seems to have such a good grasp of her character that I can easily imagine Teyla's background and get a taste of Teyla's world, even if the writing falls short.

As for Season 3, despite the lack of Teyla screen time, I've been enjoying it because what I've seen of Teyla, I've loved. Season 3 has had more of a Team feeling and the Team interaction is the glue that holds my interest in SGA.

Would I like to see more Teyla scenes? Of course, I would (she's my favorite character), but I don't want to see more Teyla scenes at the expense of the other characters nor do I want to see a lot of meaningless scenes for Teyla, like some of the meaningless scenes given to Sheppard and McKay. The writers love for Sheppard and McKay hasn't always been a good thing for those characters. The one advantage of the lack of screen time for Teyla is that she entered Season 3 the least damaged. I don't want the writers to start writing more for her if it means that they will damage the character.

It's been good to see TPTB try to balance things a bit more this season, even in the character-centric episodes, however, they still have a long way to go.


As a writer myself, I understand that ALL characters are at their core basic level given a stereotype...it's up to the writer to let that character evolve out of that stereotype naturally...the core is the stereotype...but the layers on top of it are what give the character it's depth and keep it from being a flat, basic character.

Now that they are fighting the Reps...why is she here? What does she contribute to the team in terms of interaction and character growth?

I think maybe a story about her past really WOULD help a lot...she seems like a story that's been written but half of the plot has been left out...she needs more backstory and give her something to do that shows off her skills. She's a diplomat...she's a warrior and she's moral. So let's see THAT more and less of her smiling as someone else gives their lines. Let's see her step out of the shadows of the other characters and stand BESIDE them....not behind.

[RepliHawk]

It would be good if they make an episode just about her.

[maxbo]

It would be good if they make an episode just about her.

Yes, I would love to see a Teyla episode, but I doubt we'll get one. What would be even better would be if they would just significantly include her in more episodes. I don't need character-centric episodes because if they center too much on one character, it could be too boring so I would prefer it if they would make an effort to write well for Teyla in each episode.


As a writer myself, I understand that ALL characters are at their core basic level given a stereotype...it's up to the writer to let that character evolve out of that stereotype naturally...the core is the stereotype...but the layers on top of it are what give the character it's depth and keep it from being a flat, basic character.

Now that they are fighting the Reps...why is she here? What does she contribute to the team in terms of interaction and character growth?

Why is she in Atlantis? For the same reason that she joined with Atlantis - to fight to free her people from tyranny. Why should it matter if the oppressors are Wraith or not? Unless you believe that the Asurans are just going to let the PG residents live their lives freely. As for the second part of your question, if you don't believe that she's contributed anything to the team dynamics already then I suspect that you never will because the writing for all the characters is lacking, IMO, and unless you're interested enough to use your imagination to add to the crumbs that TPTB have doled out, then you're not going to be impressed by any of the characters, even the most visible, arguably best developed character, McKay.

Regarding character growth, so far, the writers have made it all too clear that they don't have a clue who these characters are and that they're just making it up as they go along. Because of this, Teyla has strangely benefited from being ignored because she's remained the most consistently written character. The characters they write the most for have been all over the place and I don't consider that character development.

Thankfully, it appears that TPTB are trying to get back on track, but I'll try to reserve judgment until the end of the season.


I think maybe a story about her past really WOULD help a lot...she seems like a story that's been written but half of the plot has been left out...she needs more backstory and give her something to do that shows off her skills. She's a diplomat...she's a warrior and she's moral. So let's see THAT more and less of her smiling as someone else gives their lines. Let's see her step out of the shadows of the other characters and stand BESIDE them....not behind.

Of course she needs more backstory, they all need more backstory (I'm still waiting for Sheppard's backstory, but I fear that TPTB believe they've covered his backstory with Phantoms), but I doubt we're ever going to get it because TPTB are not going to devote less time to writing the characters they're most comfortable with, Sheppard and Rodney, to write for Teyla -- nope, it's just not going to happen. It wouldn't be so bad if they could continue to write episodes like like Sateda, Common Ground, and McKay and Mrs Miller, where while centering on one character they also took the time to write for the other characters.

Or, better yet, if they continued to write episodes like The Return where every character was significantly included.

[Luz]

The problem the way I see it seems to be that for decades not only sci-fi but t.v in general has been dominated by male roles. Sci-Fi is to a lot of people all about the male action (and male on male action), I can think as far as the Star Trek days (because that's the oldest sci-fi show I can remember watching), and I think back to other sci-fi shows (again not only sci-fi has been like this) and the dominating figures have been men prominently.
I'd dare saying that the most hard core fans of the genre see the women (not just the watchers, but also the female characters) as intruders on their turf, why should they care about what happens to women, why do they have to put up with women?, why are women running interference against their slash?. Screw women, who cares about them?, deep inside they wish they could go back to the days of Spock and Kirk when it was all about the guys.
You see that here, people who are more than happy when it's all about the Sheppard and McKay show, and to hell with everyone else. And tptb seem more than happy to oblige, I love the boys, but I wish tptb would make the effort of thinking outside of the box, and adapting to the new times, that they realized that some of us do in fact want to see more of the ladies, that some of us do care.
But I don't put too much stock on that happening since tptb seem to be living (very comfy I might add) in the seventies still.

[GhostPoet]

The problem the way I see it seems to be that for decades not only sci-fi but t.v in general has been dominated by male roles. Sci-Fi is to a lot of people all about the male action (and male on male action), I can think as far as the Star Trek days (because that's the oldest sci-fi show I can remember watching), and I think back to other sci-fi shows (again not only sci-fi has been like this) and the dominating figures have been men prominently.
I'd dare saying that the most hard core fans of the genre see the women (not just the watchers, but also the female characters) as intruders on their turf, why should they care about what happens to women, why do they have to put up with women?, why are women running interference against their slash?. Screw women, who cares about them?, deep inside they wish they could go back to the days of Spock and Kirk when it was all about the guys.
You see that here, people who are more than happy when it's all about the Sheppard and McKay show, and to hell with everyone else. And tptb seem more than happy to oblige, I love the boys, but I wish tptb would make the effort of thinking outside of the box, and adapting to the new times, that they realized that some of us do in fact want to see more of the ladies, that some of us do care.
But I don't put too much stock on that happening since tptb seem to be living (very comfy I might add) in the seventies still.

How about she joins SGA as a full fledged officer?

[kymeric]

Teyla is NEELIX!

Remember voyager back before we all got bored and stopped watching it? His character joined up to be a guide, but within the first year they were past the area of space that he was familliar with, making him unecessary.

Now they really DONT need Teyla. Other than that shes been there from the beginning, and her unique wraithy abilities theres no real reason for her or rhonin to be there.... apart from personal reasons.

[tears of blood]

Teyla is NEELIX!

Remember voyager back before we all got bored and stopped watching it? His character joined up to be a guide, but within the first year they were past the area of space that he was familliar with, making him unecessary.


Actually No, he was neccessary, as the series progressed he became more a part of the crew then anyone else , i remember a half dozen stories that were focused on Neelix all throughout the show, his relationship with Naomi Wildman, Tuvoc.. Tom.. and the other members of the crew, yes he wasnt a main character, but he appeared quite a lot, when he was needed

much like the Holographic doctor, they both were side characters but very much apart of the show in general.

[seldear]

I agree that TPTB aren't doing any of the women on either show a favour in consigning them to background.


why are women running interference against their slash?. Screw women, who cares about them?, deep inside they wish they could go back to the days of Spock and Kirk when it was all about the guys.
In all honesty, the worst vitriol against "running interference against their slash" tends to be from female slash fans who object to het pairings that break up their slash pairing.

Witness the people who claimed that Shep's flirting in S2 and the flashback scene in No Man's Land only made him more homosexual.

These days, in modern fandom, most of the fans are female, and while a great many of them love their hawt boyz, there are lots who are looking for strong female characters who are given things to do and parts to play.

This isn't happening in Atlantis - for either Teyla or Elizabeth.

Maxbo, I agree that an increase in scenes and things to do would be just as beneficial for Teyla as an entire episode. She is part of the team as defined by episodes such as Sateda and [/i]The Return[/i]. No, she doesn't have "a role", but the fact that she can be the diplomat, the soldier, or the one picking up on the technology - that she is flexible and capable of things beyond merely one stereotype - makes her more valuable to the team, rather than less.

I was once told that one of the reasons the Australian SAS are highly-prized in military operations is because they are trained to deal with every situation: all terrains, sea insertions, air insertions, etc. Unlike other special forces groups which tend to train for a specific type of situation, they are capable of taking on a variety of situations as they come.

Episodes like Phantoms show me just how useful a Jack-of-all-trades is in the kind of unexpected situations that Pegasus seems to breed. She doesn't have to be a 'Master' at anything, and people who think she does are missing the way the character has been developed.

For those who do like Teyla, Rachel Luttrell herself has said that her character has more to do in the second half of Season Three. Joe Mallozzi has indicated that there are some fairly major scenes involving Teyla in Sunday and Submersion, and according to a script that someone I know got hold of, The Ark features a Teyla-centric situation, with a team-angle.

In addition to which, the writers are also well aware of the shortage of Teyla so far in Season Three, and are allegedly working at episodes that use Teyla in Season Four.

Sel.

[GhostPoet]

Teyla is NEELIX!

Remember voyager back before we all got bored and stopped watching it? His character joined up to be a guide, but within the first year they were past the area of space that he was familliar with, making him unecessary.

Now they really DONT need Teyla. Other than that shes been there from the beginning, and her unique wraithy abilities theres no real reason for her or rhonin to be there.... apart from personal reasons.


If we are gonna use Trek examples...then she has got to be Uhuru. She has a purpose every now and then...though very limited. She's mainly there to add lines to the other cast members.

She SHOULD be like Troy. She was a strong female character who did more than just smiled and bounced lines off other peoples lines...she had her own life, her own personality and purpose.

[FoolishPleasure]

She SHOULD be like Troy. She was a strong female character who did more than just smiled and bounced lines off other peoples lines...she had her own life, her own personality and purpose.
No, no, no more Deanna Troi, I thought she was useless! In one recent episode Teyla actually said, "I feel they are not truthful" and I just about gagged with her Deanna channeling. :S

Teyla is a LEADER, and that is the direction the writers need to take her, and it is a direction they have rarely touched. I don't want to see magical Teyla reading minds with the, "I feel this and that", and standing around looking hot in her tight clothing.

We have never seen Teyla actually step forward and take charge and LEAD. In "Phantoms", we were subjected to wimpy Teyla crying, "John" for 30 minutes, when, as the only team member unaffected, she should have taken charge and whacked sense into Sheppard, or used assertiveness to snap Rodney out of his hallucination. It was the perfect opportunity to see Teyla take command and solve the problem, but instead we have her shot and left as a helpless female needing assistance, crying out for a man. Ugh.

I liked Teyla in "Trinity" where we actually saw her DO something and stand up for herself. THAT is the Teyla I want to see. It is infuriating to see these writers continually write Teyla and Elizabeth as MarySue's instead of the strong leaders they should be.

[GhostPoet]

I agree that TPTB aren't doing any of the women on either show a favour in consigning them to background.


In all honesty, the worst vitriol against "running interference against their slash" tends to be from female slash fans who object to het pairings that break up their slash pairing.

Witness the people who claimed that Shep's flirting in S2 and the flashback scene in No Man's Land only made him more homosexual.

These days, in modern fandom, most of the fans are female, and while a great many of them love their hawt boyz, there are lots who are looking for strong female characters who are given things to do and parts to play.

This isn't happening in Atlantis - for either Teyla or Elizabeth.

Maxbo, I agree that an increase in scenes and things to do would be just as beneficial for Teyla as an entire episode. She is part of the team as defined by episodes such as Sateda and [/i]The Return[/i]. No, she doesn't have "a role", but the fact that she can be the diplomat, the soldier, or the one picking up on the technology - that she is flexible and capable of things beyond merely one stereotype - makes her more valuable to the team, rather than less.

I was once told that one of the reasons the Australian SAS are highly-prized in military operations is because they are trained to deal with every situation: all terrains, sea insertions, air insertions, etc. Unlike other special forces groups which tend to train for a specific type of situation, they are capable of taking on a variety of situations as they come.

Episodes like Phantoms show me just how useful a Jack-of-all-trades is in the kind of unexpected situations that Pegasus seems to breed. She doesn't have to be a 'Master' at anything, and people who think she does are missing the way the character has been developed.

For those who do like Teyla, Rachel Luttrell herself has said that her character has more to do in the second half of Season Three. Joe Mallozzi has indicated that there are some fairly major scenes involving Teyla in Sunday and Submersion, and according to a script that someone I know got hold of, The Ark features a Teyla-centric situation, with a team-angle.

In addition to which, the writers are also well aware of the shortage of Teyla so far in Season Three, and are allegedly working at episodes that use Teyla in Season Four.

Sel.


I can't argue with your post. (blast it!) So, I'm going to applaud you and agree completely.

=)

[NubianQueen]

I heard a rumor that the next Teyla centric episode won't air until season 4. What needless torture. It is not fair, to watch should a cool character in the side lines. Why would TPTB push her character into the background?

[Mikaeru]

I find Telya to be the best character out of the entire series. She is the only character on SGA that has maintaned her integrity and is like the show's only source of morality throughout any situation.

Her character is unique on the show, not just because she's an outsider, but unlike Ronan who joined and is way to gung-ho; she on a regular basis points out to all the other characters when what they are doing is wrong. Without Telya the show would just be way to dark at times for me to even watch. I can't even recall a time when anyone from Earth helping an alien world without completely selfish motives behind it... However remember "The Tower," Teyla rushed to the aid of the villiagers that were being abused and couldn't stand how they were living in an injust society.

I know find it reassuring that when everyone else of the show is being immoral and completely selfcentered, that Telya will speak up against their course of actions.

(Weir has some integrity, however she is obligated to do what is best for Earth and the expedition)

[RepliHawk]

I find Telya to be the best character out of the entire series. She is the only character on SGA that has maintaned her integrity and is like the show's only source of morality throughout any situation.

Her character is unique on the show, not just because she's an outsider, but unlike Ronan who joined and is way to gung-ho; she on a regular basis points out to all the other characters when what they are doing is wrong. Without Telya the show would just be way to dark at times for me to even watch. I can't even recall a time when anyone from Earth helping an alien world without completely selfish motives behind it... However remember "The Tower," Teyla rushed to the aid of the villiagers that were being abused and couldn't stand how they were living in an injust society.

I know find it reassuring that when everyone else of the show is being immoral and completely selfcentered, that Telya will speak up against their course of actions.

(Weir has some integrity, however she is obligated to do what is best for Earth and the expedition)

Yeah tayla rocks

[seldear]

We have never seen Teyla actually step forward and take charge and LEAD. In "Phantoms", we were subjected to wimpy Teyla crying, "John" for 30 minutes, when, as the only team member unaffected, she should have taken charge and whacked sense into Sheppard, or used assertiveness to snap Rodney out of his hallucination. It was the perfect opportunity to see Teyla take command and solve the problem, but instead we have her shot and left as a helpless female needing assistance, crying out for a man. Ugh.
Okay.

I'm guessing that I was watching a different version of Phantoms to the one described above!

In Phantoms, what I saw was an injured woman trying to make sense of a situation that made very little to her: people seeing things that she did not and having to deal with being injured at the same time. The only team-mate she had in close proximity thought she was someone else and her attempts to reach him failed to break through his flashback.

You know, I'm slightly disturbed by the fact that being shot in the leg means that a woman should not ask the nearest person for help if he happens to be a man. She must be betraying the image of strong women leaders everywhere, since being shot in the leg and requiring help is clearly a sign of weakness!

If I recall correctly, Teyla did take control of the situation. She got John to return to the cave by feeding into his flashback when all other attempts failed. She got John to help her into the cave by sheer force of will - her injury was such that she couldn't put weight on the leg. She took one look at Rodney's work, and knew how close he was and what needed to be done to solve the problem.
I don't know about other people's standards for leadership, but taking the initiative, finding means to get the job done without destroying one's own integrity or requiring people to wreck their own, as well as taking the information presented, choosing a solution, and implementing it while working around several problems, pretty much defines not only leadership to me, but good leadership to boot!

Earlier, in Season 2's Aurora, when Rodney was intent on going into the Aurora's virtual reality system, Teyla was the one who pointed out that John was a better choice than Rodney since Rodney's technical expertise might be needed outside, and persuaded both John and Rodney with her arguments.

Teyla was the one who kept an eye on the situation outside the virtual reality system when John and Rodney were inside, and the one who initiated the cover for her team-mates when Caldwell wanted to know what was going on.
Even as far back as in Season 1's Letters From Pegasus, Teyla made the decision to stay behind to collect Orin's people when John was going to head back to Atlantis with his information. She was willing to leave the safety of the 'jumper and take her chances with the Wraith among people she cared about and felt responsible for.

And, in the same episode, John showed himself willing to take his chances for Teyla - someone he cared about and felt responsible for.
No, Teyla doesn't give orders that people jump to do immediately. But a person who gives orders that other people follow is not automatically a leader - they're merely a commander. A leader is someone who inspires people to follow her - and the best leaders are those who know when to speak and when to stay silent.

As I see it, Teyla's definitely a leader. She doesn't have to lead all the time, but when she does - as in Phantoms, as well as other episodes - it's definitely impressive.

Sel.

[maxbo]

Excellent post, seldear. I must have seen your version of Phantoms because there wasn't a wimpy Teyla in the version I saw either. What I did see was a character who kept her wits about her while in pain and unable to walk without assistance because of her leg injury.

As for that puzzling comment that Teyla should have been assertive enough to snap Rodney out of his hallucination... well, considering that Rodney was already lucid by the time Teyla saw him again, there was nothing for Teyla to snap him out of. :confused:

In addition, Teyla saved Rodney's life by ruining John's aim. And, the last scene really showed how much attention she paid to Rodney's instructions by remembering that 2 people were needed to turn off the generator - one to isolate the conduits and one to monitor the laptop.

Nope, no wimpy Teyla in the version of Phantoms that I saw.

As for leadership, I agree that leadership is more than just being in the position to give people orders. In addition to the great examples of you list in Aurora and Letters from Pegasus, of Teyla doing what's needed to get the job done, I would also add Epiphany and The Long Goodbye. Epiphany reminded me of Phantoms in that when Rodney needed assistance, he turned to Teyla. I suspect that over the last 2 + years that Teyla is the team member who has shown the most interest in Rodney's work so he's confident that she pays attention when he talks about things that would probably make Sheppard and Ronon's eyes glaze over.

In The Long Goodbye, Teyla demonstrated that she could make the tough decisions, if necessary, without useless handwringing.

[NubianQueen]

Wow I never really thought of that regarding Teyla. She does at times seem interested in the things that Rodney seems keen in explaining to her. She is also intellegent enough tp understand his work.

I wonder if TPTB will allow her to kind of become Rodney's protege, in resepects to the actual physical application toward Rodney's techno babble.

In other words, she could be the physical manisfestation toward the stuff Rodney implies needs to be done.

NQ

[maxbo]

Wow I never really thought of that regarding Teyla. She does at times seem interested in the things that Rodney seems keen in explaining to her. She is also intellegent enough tp understand his work.

I wonder if TPTB will allow her to kind of become Rodney's protege, in resepects to the actual physical application toward Rodney's techno babble.

In other words, she could be the physical manisfestation toward the stuff Rodney implies needs to be done.

NQ

I know, it's interesting how much Teyla absorbs, not just from Rodney, but probably from everyone on Atlantis and that bluffing scene in Aurora is a perfect example of how much Teyla has picked up while in Atlantis. In a way she's probably already Rodney's protege, at least while in the field because I don't see Shep or Ronon being patient enough to work closely with Rodney, unless they were all in immediate danger. :D

And, I also remember her comment in Home, where she wondered what her people could have achieved if not for the Wraith. I don't know if her keen interest in learning stems from being raised in a world that's been stifled or, if it's a combination of that and her natural curiosity about the world. Whatever the reason, I would love to see TPTB continue to include this aspect of her personality in episodes.

[Rosehawk]

For those who do like Teyla, Rachel Luttrell herself has said that her character has more to do in the second half of Season Three. Joe Mallozzi has indicated that there are some fairly major scenes involving Teyla in Sunday and Submersion, and according to a script that someone I know got hold of, The Ark features a Teyla-centric situation, with a team-angle.

In addition to which, the writers are also well aware of the shortage of Teyla so far in Season Three, and are allegedly working at episodes that use Teyla in Season Four.

Sel.

I sure hope this does happen. There is a strength in Teyla's character that needs to be brought to the center more often.

I would really like to see more of how she deals with the contridictions of her beliefs with the science of Atlantis. They always just seem to touch on this but never go into it. Teyla does seem to absorb alot of information as several have said, at some point all that information has to come to a head with her personal, deep rooted beliefs. We have seen hints about the differences, I would just like to see more conflict and how Telya would handle it.

[jenks]

The only reason I see for keeping Teyla as part of the team is her ability to use Wraith tech...

[rdc137]

I wouldn't mind seeing Teyla and Ronan replaced with Carter and Daniel on Sheppard's team. It would bring back the "McCarter" banter and Daniel would have to "break in a new Cornel.".

[GateLadyM]

You know, I'm slightly disturbed by the fact that being shot in the leg means that a woman should not ask the nearest person for help if he happens to be a man. She must be betraying the image of strong women leaders everywhere, since being shot in the leg and requiring help is clearly a sign of weakness!
It was a sign of weakness. The writers turned her into Mary Sue for this episode. She was begging Sheppard to be himself all the way through because she was completely helpless and almost in tears, and it got very annoying after awhile.


Even as far back as in Season 1's Letters From Pegasus, Teyla made the decision to stay behind to collect Orin's people when John was going to head back to Atlantis with his information. She was willing to leave the safety of the 'jumper and take her chances with the Wraith among people she cared about and felt responsible for.

And, in the same episode, John showed himself willing to take his chances for Teyla - someone he cared about and felt responsible for.
LFT is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Teyla is. If Sheppard had died trying to save her friend (after she laid the guilt trip on him for not helping), then not only our team in Atlantis would have all died, but all of Teyla's people would have been killed or taken as well. Atlantis needed the information on the Wraith fleet, and staying to help one or two people was a poor decision. Sheppard should have been reprimanded for caving in to her whim and it definitely showed Teyla leads from the heart, instead of the head. That is not the type of person you want in charge in a life or death situation.


. . she on a regular basis points out to all the other characters when what they are doing is wrong.
I don't like that part of Teyla's character at all. The "holier-than-thou" attitude is a real turn-off to me.

Maybe its just bad writing. Overall I really don't care if she stays or if she goes. I just find her more irritating than interesting.

[bluealien]

It was a sign of weakness. The writers turned her into Mary Sue for this episode. She was begging Sheppard to be himself all the way through because she was completely helpless and almost in tears, and it got very annoying after awhile.


She was shot in the leg and in pain - yet she still managed to keep herself together. The marine who was shot was crying like a baby and McKay did his fair share of whining. Even while wounded she still managed to get around, save Rodneys life and get hallunicating Sheppard into the cave to help her disarm the Wraith device. So in fact she saved the day - I would call this the action of a strong and capable leader.


LFT is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Teyla is. If Sheppard had died trying to save her friend (after she laid the guilt trip on him for not helping), then not only our team in Atlantis would have all died, but all of Teyla's people would have been killed or taken as well. Atlantis needed the information on the Wraith fleet, and staying to help one or two people was a poor decision. Sheppard should have been reprimanded for caving in to her whim and it definitely showed Teyla leads from the heart, instead of the head. That is not the type of person you want in charge in a life or death situation.

Again LFP showed Teyla to be a strong, caring and loyal friend who like Sheppard would do anything for her family - and Orin was like family to her. Did we just expect her to walk away without trying to help her family. Even in obvious pain Teyla accepted Johns orders to leave the planet and ONLY after they got stuck on the planet did she ask John to go to where they agreed to meet Orin. Why should it only be the privilage of John to do anything to save the people he cares about, and not Teyla. She has left her people and put her life at risk to help the Atlantians fight the Wraith so why should she be expected to help Johns people and not for him to help hers. As she said she was not trying to save everyone - just Orins family. John decided to help her because HE came to the realisation that helping save a few would at least count for something. Waiting a little while longer didn't put the mission or anyone on Atlantis at risk and I was a bit surprised by the casual manner Weir took the info. It didn't seem all that urgent at all and she really didin't do anything with it.



I don't like that part of Teyla's character at all. The "holier-than-thou" attitude is a real turn-off to me.

Teyla has pointed out her concerns over certain issues and she has been proven correct. She had every reason to be wary of the decision making of Weir and maybe if she had listened to Teyla's concerns they would not have
ended up in the terrible predicaments they found themselves in, not only putting Atlantis at risk but earth as well.


Maybe its just bad writing. Overall I really don't care if she stays or if she goes. I just find her more irritating than interesting.

I find Teyla to the most consistantly written character and IMO definitley one of the least irritating characters on the show.

[NubianQueen]

I find Teyla to the most consistantly written character and IMO definitley one of the least irritating characters on the show.

Me as well.

Hello folks! My name is Magene and I have become am an avid poster on the Scifi SGA bboard, especially on Teyla's threads. I go by Madgy on the Scifi Bboard and I figured that maybe TPTB read the threads on the SGA bboard on Scifi.com.

I have posted many comments regarding the character Teyla and how much they are under using her and her potential for a much needed progressive story arc.

I have debated that she need to develop interpersonal relationships with her people more. Other fans as well as myself of SGA would like to see Teyla's childhood, we would like to know where she learned to be a good warrior, we would like to see her struggles to become the supposed "leader of her people" and we often wondered if she had a boyfriend or a love interest prior to the SGA team arrival on her planet.

We also would like to see her in a relationship outside of SGA. Like with the Athosian guys, the "good" Genii guys, other Pegasus guys. Or a relationship within SGA, like Ronon or Beckett or even Bates if he shows up again.

But My personal favorite hookup is Teyla with Michael, I really miss that character on SGA. I know that they would preovide a good "progressive" story arc for the show.

Honestly, I kinda felt let out this third season with what ous posters on the Scifi BBoard wouls like to call the "Golden Three" this season has been mostly about McKay, Sheppard and some of Weir. While my favorite characters Teyla, Beckett and sometimes Ronon are in the back ground twiddling their thumbs window dressing.

I posted on another forum called Mind Venom and a friend mentioned that I would not see any Teyla episodes this season. I was pretty much Heart Broken, and I got to admit I was pretty bitter on the SGA scifi boards.

Mostly because of the lack of use of Rachel's Character. After scanning this board for about three days now I was wondering if any of you had the email, or mailing address of Rachel and the Writers/Preoducer/Execs, whoever will listen to a Heart Broken SGA fan.


NQ

[expendable_crewman]

She was shot in the leg and in pain - yet she still managed to keep herself together. The marine who was shot was crying like a baby and McKay did his fair share of whining. Even while wounded she still managed to get around, save Rodneys life and get hallunicating Sheppard into the cave to help her disarm the Wraith device. So in fact she saved the day - I would call this the action of a strong and capable leader.I agree. It was a save that was accomplished while wounded and while she was going in and out of consciousness. If I was going to complain about a female character needing an assist, the last character and ep I'd use would be Teyla in Phantoms. That move to jolt Sheppard's weapon in time to save Rodney was an assist, but she was the one making it. Getting Sheppard into the cave was an assist and she made that one as well. Figuring out the final steps to disable the weapon & getting Sheppard to wrench the conduit while she gave him directions, slam dunk.


Again LFP showed Teyla to be a strong, caring and loyal friend who like Sheppard would do anything for her family - and Orin was like family to her. Did we just expect her to walk away without trying to help her family. Even in obvious pain Teyla accepted Johns orders to leave the planet and ONLY after they got stuck on the planet did she ask John to go to where they agreed to meet Orin. Why should it only be the privilage of John to do anything to save the people he cares about, and not Teyla. She has left her people and put her life at risk to help the Atlantians fight the Wraith so why should she be expected to help Johns people and not for him to help hers. As she said she was not trying to save everyone - just Orins family. John decided to help her because HE came to the realisation that helping save a few would at least count for something. Waiting a little while longer didn't put the mission or anyone on Atlantis at risk and I was a bit surprised by the casual manner Weir took the info. It didn't seem all that urgent at all and she really didin't do anything with it.I'm with you on this one too. One of Teyla's assets has been her connection to the Pegasus. That connection is presented within the context of the series as far, far more than a temporary association. The Pegasus is her home. Her connection can't be valuable to Atlantis one moment, and dismissed the next, not without creating issues. LFP was a wonderful episode for several reasons. One of its highlights was the conflict in the Jumper, where Teyla's connection to the Pegasus was, IMO, supposed to become more evident to the viewers when shown through the horror of a culling on a world people by *her* friends. Meanwhile, on Atlantis, the folks with whom we the viewers identified were preparing for the same fate. The contrast was powerful. I thought it was a great ep and it defined Teyla as strong and loyal.


Teyla has pointed out her concerns over certain issues and she has been proven correct. She had every reason to be wary of the decision making of Weir and maybe if she had listened to Teyla's concerns they would not have ended up in the terrible predicaments they found themselves in, not only putting Atlantis at risk but earth as well.Childhood's End comes to mind. While Rodney and Sheppard took a more reckless "What can happen in a few hours?" attitude, Teyla was the voice of caution. Only after the Wraith device was discovered did Speppard and Rodney realize how reckless it was to disable a shield that protected children. Getting that ZPM was *everything* except, in the end, it wasn't. The ensuing hustle to turn on the shield made for a good ending but it did not negate the fact that Teyla was right.


I find Teyla to the most consistantly written character and IMO definitley one of the least irritating characters on the show.I'm still waiting for the show to take off and for that to happen I really think the show needs to feel less like it's trying to bring Earth to the Pegasus and more like it's an expedition to another galaxy. I think the show can get a bit bolder, find out there's more out there, and help the audience feel like the Pegasus is a far away place. I've always pictured Teyla as having a significant role in fleshing out the Pegasus.

[Luz]

It was a sign of weakness. The writers turned her into Mary Sue for this episode. She was begging Sheppard to be himself all the way through because she was completely helpless and almost in tears, and it got very annoying after awhile.


It got tiring after the first fifty times didn't it?, JohnJhonJohnJohn, and I'm still trying to understand why instead of begging (quite pathetically if I might add) why didn't she just crawl there and pull the plug herself?. but I guess having her begging for forty minutes wasn't enough.


LFT is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Teyla is. If Sheppard had died trying to save her friend (after she laid the guilt trip on him for not helping), then not only our team in Atlantis would have all died, but all of Teyla's people would have been killed or taken as well. Atlantis needed the information on the Wraith fleet, and staying to help one or two people was a poor decision. Sheppard should have been reprimanded for caving in to her whim and it definitely showed Teyla leads from the heart, instead of the head. That is not the type of person you want in charge in a life or death situation.

She was really selfish there, and showed her immaturity, she practically stomped her feet on the ground, and blackmailed Sheppard into waiting for her friends. To hell with their mission, sure some people were going to die, but Sheppard waited and people died anyway, she should have kept a cool head and realized that bringing the info was more important than saving her friends.
Seems to me Sheppard dealt with her like you deal with a disgruntled teen, by partially giving up just to temporarily shut her up. "There we're staying, happy now?, give me a break".

[expendable_crewman]

and I'm still trying to understand why instead of begging (quite pathetically if I might add) why didn't she just crawl there and pull the plug herself?. but I guess having her begging for forty minutes wasn't enough.I can help with this. It was demonstrated early on in the episode that someone shot her. I think it was between minute fifteen and minute twenty, although I could be wrong about the minute mark.

At the end of the episode, Sheppard was in front of the conduit and Teyla, who was shot and could not walk without support, was not. Does that help?


She was really selfish there, and showed her immaturity, she practically stomped her feet on the ground, and blackmailed Sheppard into waiting for her friends. To hell with their mission, sure some people were going to die, but Sheppard waited and people died anyway, she should have kept a cool head and realized that bringing the info was more important than saving her friends.
Seems to me Sheppard dealt with her like you deal with a disgruntled teen, by partially giving up just to temporarily shut her up. "There we're staying, happy now?, give me a break".These points make sense only if the Sheppard character is reduced to wishy-washy and brainless. Season one Sheppard thought out of the box and went all out to defend friends. By the way, as far as "leaving no one behind" goes, Sheppard didn't invent the concept nor did the Earth expedition invent loyalty to friends and introduce it when it arrived in the Pegasus.

LFP puts two strong characters in conflict in a situation where *both* characters are right. It was a good way for the audience to remember the Pegasus was Teyla's home and not just the place she got stuck in when the way home was lost. If Teyla had not shown spine in LFP, her character would have lost credibility.

From a writer's standpoint, I believe we were *supposed* to understand that by the episode's end Sheppard concurred (with the above) or he would not have continued to give Teyla his trust or keep her on his team.

Unless we were to think Sheppard is weak and stupid.

I don't see how we can have it both ways.

[Jeyla4ever]

It got tiring after the first fifty times didn't it?, JohnJhonJohnJohn, and I'm still trying to understand why instead of begging (quite pathetically if I might add) why didn't she just crawl there and pull the plug herself?. but I guess having her begging for forty minutes wasn't enough.


She was really selfish there, and showed her immaturity, she practically stomped her feet on the ground, and blackmailed Sheppard into waiting for her friends. To hell with their mission, sure some people were going to die, but Sheppard waited and people died anyway, she should have kept a cool head and realized that bringing the info was more important than saving her friends.
Seems to me Sheppard dealt with her like you deal with a disgruntled teen, by partially giving up just to temporarily shut her up. "There we're staying, happy now?, give me a break".

Not only is Teyla a capable and strong leader, she is also one that others follow...so much so that even meeting her for a brief period of time, Sheppard chose her to be a part of his team...that has to mean something, unless Sheppard now is a bad military commander and leader as well...and to add to that, Weir didn't have a problem with it either so if Teyla was such a poor leader and team member where does that leave those two?

As far as Phantoms...Teyla saved the day! and everyone knew it....she was not affected by the Wraith device and yet she was in the worst possible situation. Watching her friends go down so horribly and knowing their demise must have been something awful...at least the others were concentrating in their own little nightmare....Teyla was witnessing their nightmare as well as her own real version of Phantoms.....seeing her friends in that state must have been crushing...

Now, I"d like to know in which scene we saw Teyla about to burst in tears....
If anything she maintain control of the situation and found ways to get her friends back to normal..she knew what had to be done...she knew and told John to take her back to Carson...she knew that they were all in danger and that John was going to go after all of them except her.

She knew that Ronon was hallucinating and wasn't able to distinguish any of them except for her....

She did what the others couldn't do....she took control of the situation and knowing that she was the only one that could get John to do anything, she reacted and got the job done..and not only that, John trusted her and listened to her even in the form of his friend. All of this in spite of the fact that she was injured....she didn't whine or complain and she did what no other could do....she ordered John around even in his hallucinating state and saved all of them in the process!

In LFP...maybe some of you watched a different episode than I did..but if my memory serves me correctly...not only did they gather additional information for staying in that planet *the beam of light that neither one of them had seen before* John was able to take a closer look and get a real sense of what was coming..all viable information that they wouldn't have gotten had they not stayed in the planet..in addition, John's last words in this episodes where the same ones that Teyla had used earlier to state her reasons for wanting to stay...if anything John stayed not only because he was not going to leave without her, but also because he does hold her opinion highly otherwise, he wouldn't have stayed..Like EC wrote above, John knows what he's doing and he admitted that in the end, something good came out of that horrible experience...and he acknowledge Teyla for it...in the end, the purpose of that episode was to show the different views from two leaders, warriors fighting for the same cause.....Teyla represents the entire Pegasus Galaxy for she advocates for all of them...John is there to defend Atlantis and Earth...and in these two you have the perfect combination of what is right.....both trying to do what is best for everyone...and in between trying to understand each others role....respectfully and successfully!

Neither one was wrong...neither one was right..in the end, it was a no win situation, but they were able to save a few and that in itself is the right thing to do...and John knew it!

and so much so, that he sacrificed himself to do what is right! otherwise, then I guess your argument should be, he did it only for Teyla.....then even that argument states the strong influence that she has over him....which points back to how John listens to Teyla even while hallucinating! ;)

[bluealien]

It got tiring after the first fifty times didn't it?, JohnJhonJohnJohn, and I'm still trying to understand why instead of begging (quite pathetically if I might add) why didn't she just crawl there and pull the plug herself?. but I guess having her begging for forty minutes wasn't enough.

I didn't see any begging and I would say that 50 times is a gross exaggeration. Maybe about 5 times - but John was in a hallunicatory state so Teyla had to keep trying to get through to him.


She was really selfish there, and showed her immaturity, she practically stomped her feet on the ground, and blackmailed Sheppard into waiting for her friends.

No stomping of feet occured and no blackmailing. If you go and watch the ep again you will see that as I said before, Teya accepted Johns orders to leave the planet - and it was done quietly and calmly. You could see she was upset having to abandon her close friends but she accepted Johns orders to get the intel back to Atlantis. What is selfish about wanting to save a few lives. If that had been Rodney or Ronan or anyone John considered close I don't believe for a moment that he would have not fought to try and save them - so why is this so selfish when Teyla is the one wanting to save her family. John weighed up the situation and realised that as they were already stuck on the planet he would go and wait where Teyla had agreed to meet Orin.




To hell with their mission, sure some people were going to die, but Sheppard waited and people died anyway, she should have kept a cool head and realized that bringing the info was more important than saving her friends.

She did keep a cool head and yes people did die but Teyla was not trying to save everyone - just Orin and his family. They were stuck on the planet with no way of getting through the gate - so she was not compromising the mission. And as I stated already Weir didn't really do anything with the info. It didn't seem that waiting an hour or so getting the info back made any difference at all.



Seems to me Sheppard dealt with her like you deal with a disgruntled teen, by partially giving up just to temporarily shut her up. "There we're staying, happy now?, give me a break".

John dealt with her as a trusted friend and HE came to the realisation that saving a few counted for something. He seemed more aware of this at the end than even Teyla.

[FoolishPleasure]

. . . but John was in a hallunicatory state so Teyla had to keep trying to get through to him.
Obviously the "John" begging wasn't working. Why the heck didn't she try slapping him to wake him up? Her leg was injured, not her hand. My husband kept yelling at the TV, "Just whack him in the head and bring him to his senses!"


No stomping of feet occured and no blackmailing. If you go and watch the ep again you will see that as I said before, Teya accepted Johns orders to leave the planet - and it was done quietly and calmly. You could see she was upset having to abandon her close friends but she accepted Johns orders to get the intel back to Atlantis. What is selfish about wanting to save a few lives. If that had been Rodney or Ronan or anyone John considered close I don't believe for a moment that he would have not fought to try and save them - so why is this so selfish when Teyla is the one wanting to save her family. John weighed up the situation and realised that as they were already stuck on the planet he would go and wait where Teyla had agreed to meet Orin.
First - John did NOT want to return to the planet. He went because Teyla wouldn't shut up about it. Once they returned to the planet, the gate was closed off and they couldn't escape. If Teyla had listened to Sheppard's logic in the first place, they never would have been in danger at all. BTW - she was not trying to rescue any family. She wanted to help a friend from a trading community. I'm sorry, that isn't important enough to risk an entire civilization. Teyla should have realized that, especially with her background of sacrifice.


. . .as I stated already Weir didn't really do anything with the info. It didn't seem that waiting an hour or so getting the info back made any difference at all.
We have no idea what the people in Atlantis did with the info. They certainly knew to evacuate the Athosians from the mainland because the fleet was so huge.

As for "Phantoms" - the writers missed an incredibly good opportunity to make it a Teyla-centric episode by having her uninjured and the only sane person while her team went bonkers around her. It would have been a marvelous opportunity to see her fighting, negotiating, and cool-under-pressure skills. Alas, all we got was, "JOHN. . .PLEASE!" for 40 minutes. Ugh.

[maxbo]

Obviously the "John" begging wasn't working. Why the heck didn't she try slapping him to wake him up? Her leg was injured, not her hand. My husband kept yelling at the TV, "Just whack him in the head and bring him to his senses!"

How would hitting him have nullified the affects of the Wraith generator? Not only would it have been risky to use violence against someone who was already in the midst of violent hallucinations, but John was also still within range of the still functional Wraith generator. So, even if hitting him would have snapped him out of it, what would have prevented the generator from affecting him again?

Also, if, as some believe, Teyla's Wraith DNA prevented those affected by the generator from attacking her, then how would John have processed the fact that she was hitting him? I suspect that Teyla's hitting him would have triggered an event where he was helpless and I can all too easily imagine the criticism that would have been directed at Teyla for attacking a helpless, delusional John.



First - John did NOT want to return to the planet. He went because Teyla wouldn't shut up about it. Once they returned to the planet, the gate was closed off and they couldn't escape. If Teyla had listened to Sheppard's logic in the first place, they never would have been in danger at all. BTW - she was not trying to rescue any family. She wanted to help a friend from a trading community. I'm sorry, that isn't important enough to risk an entire civilization. Teyla should have realized that, especially with her background of sacrifice.

There's one problem with this argument... it's not based on fact.

John didn't return to Orin's planet because Teyla "wouldn't shut up about it". He returned to the planet (after he and Teyla saw 2 Hive ships drop out of hyperspace), to exit through the planet's stargate. He only landed on the planet because the Wraith, by dialing in, prevented them from accessing the gate so he had no choice but to land on the planet and wait them out. It was only then that he decided that if he had to wait, then he might as well wait where Orin was to wait for possible rescue.



We have no idea what the people in Atlantis did with the info. They certainly knew to evacuate the Athosians from the mainland because the fleet was so huge.

No, we don't know what they did with the info, but it's safe to say that they would have evacuated the Athosians anyway because that's the usual MO whenever there is a Hive ship threat.


As for "Phantoms" - the writers missed an incredibly good opportunity to make it a Teyla-centric episode by having her uninjured and the only sane person while her team went bonkers around her. It would have been a marvelous opportunity to see her fighting, negotiating, and cool-under-pressure skills.

This is the only part of your post that I agree with. It would have been great to have seen an uninjured Teyla try to work through the situations in Phantoms.


Alas, all we got was, "JOHN. . .PLEASE!" for 40 minutes. Ugh.

That's not even close to what was shown on screen so I'll just file this comment away with the one where you said Teyla should have snapped Rodney out of his hallucination, even though she was no where near Rodney when he was hallucinating.

[Chailyn]

I agree that 'Phantoms' was a bit disappointing for Teyla, IMO. She could have easily been the star of this one.

I wish that she had left John, realizing that the only way to help him and Ronon, was to help Rodney turn that thing off. It would have given some nice McKay-Teyla moments too, which have been severely lacking over the past two seasons. Also, I didn't buy that Teyla can look at McKay's laptop and grasp everything, unless we're to believe that McKay has been giving her lessons. As someone who deals with people who don't know how to turn on a computer, I wished Teyla was put in a position where she would have had to force McKay out of his hallucinations and instruct her how to disable the machine, instead of McKay doing most of it. It would have taken her out of her comfort zone and created nice drama for her, knowing that if she couldn't do it right, Ronon and John might kill each other. But alas, it was not to be. :cool:

I admit that I haven't been able to warm-up to Teyla much. There are times when I like her, but mostly I'm just indifferent. Her actions in LTP didn't really annoy me, only because everything worked out for the best (and I would be worried about my friends too), but

she did sour me a bit in "The Storm" when she forced Carson and Ford to wait on those hunters. It wasn't so much that she wanted to wait for them, because I can totally see her wanting to save her people, but it was the way she did it that rubbed me the wrong way. When they wanted to leave, she calmly said something like "then I will remain here to wait for them". Uh...no. I'll admit that it hit on a pet peeve of mine, so I am biased here, but I hate passive-aggressive behavior. She knew they wouldn't leave her alone on the Mainland with a hurricane on its way. So, they caved. Then, when the hunters boarded, she lightly scolded Carson for not wanting to fly in weather that had worsened because they were waiting for her people. She said something like, "I hope you're right Dr., because we will not get another chance once the storm is here." Sheesh. Don't put this on Carson. Another thing I don't like--backseat driving. I'm looking at you too, Ford! ;)

But, overall I don't want to see her replaced. I want the writers to start writing for her. She has potential and I want to like her, but I'm just getting tired of waiting. :(

[Jeyla4ever]

Chailyn;5902300]I agree that 'Phantoms' was a bit disappointing for Teyla, IMO. She could have easily been the star of this one.

So true, but this was meant to be for Sheppard and his backstory, so again...McKay and Sheppard took the role for this one as well..although I have to say I did see this as a good team episode...which I think was the idea the writers were going for....and I personally don't care for character centric episodes...only a few have really interested me....



I wish that she had left John, realizing that the only way to help him and Ronon, was to help Rodney turn that thing off. It would have given some nice McKay-Teyla moments too, which have been severely lacking over the past two seasons. Also, I didn't buy that Teyla can look at McKay's laptop and grasp everything, unless we're to believe that McKay has been giving her lessons. As someone who deals with people who don't know how to turn on a computer, I wished Teyla was put in a position where she would have had to force McKay out of his hallucinations and instruct her how to disable the machine, instead of McKay doing most of it. It would have taken her out of her comfort zone and created nice drama for her, knowing that if she couldn't do it right, Ronon and John might kill each other. But alas, it was not to be. :cool:

I think that the fact that she was injured and couldn't walk prevented her from going anywhere....and the idea was to have her be next to John and be a representation of his own hallucination.....if she had done that and not gotten hurt then we wouldn't have had a Phantoms episode!

If anything, I've liked the little tidbits that we've gotten from Teyla and McKay....mind you they have been brief but they've been good....

As far as Teyla knowing how to use and read the computer..well, if you go back to Intruder, Teyla was in charge of Atlantis along with Zelenka while the main guys were gone....she must have had some training by Weir and the others if she was left to run the place...in addition we have seen her use the camera, and other equipments that can lead us to believe that Teyla has been spending time with others like Carson and Rodney and Weir in order for them to trust her to be able to lead Atlantis in their abscense...so, the fact that she was able to read it and figure it out is very believable...in addition, she was helping Rodney before John came over to ask how were things going...she even told Rodney that it was more important to shut down the machine than to figure out what and how it runs....so the backstory was there enough for us to figure it out and believe it! Having Teyla figure it out on her own would have been really great....but then again, it would have conflicted with Rodney's portion of the story and that wasn't meant to be....

In the end, I think Teyla's role was use very well in this episode...of coarse they could have done things very differently but overall....the scenario for Teyla was more believable and acceptable than some of the other scenarios for the other characters.....she struggled her own fears and overcame them and did what had to be done even when physically unable to do it..so much so that even Rodney knew she could do it..he said, I"ve already told you how to do it


I admit that I haven't been able to warm-up to Teyla much. There are times when I like her, but mostly I'm just indifferent. Her actions in LTP didn't really annoy me, only because everything worked out for the best (and I would be worried about my friends too), but

she did sour me a bit in "The Storm" when she forced Carson and Ford to wait on those hunters. It wasn't so much that she wanted to wait for them, because I can totally see her wanting to save her people, but it was the way she did it that rubbed me the wrong way. When they wanted to leave, she calmly said something like "then I will remain here to wait for them". Uh...no. I'll admit that it hit on a pet peeve of mine, so I am biased here, but I hate passive-aggressive behavior. She knew they wouldn't leave her alone on the Mainland with a hurricane on its way. So, they caved. Then, when the hunters boarded, she lightly scolded Carson for not wanting to fly in weather that had worsened because they were waiting for her people. She said something like, "I hope you're right Dr., because we will not get another chance once the storm is here." Sheesh. Don't put this on Carson. Another thing I don't like--backseat driving. I'm looking at you too, Ford! ;)

Teyla's role is not a passive/aggressive, at all. I've worked with the likes of those..and she's doesn't fit the description at all...she's the opposite....when many in Atlantis have done the unthinkable and made the most stupidest decisions ever and she has even warned them...she has maintained her composure and has even followed along for the sake of all of them....and you'll never hear Teyla say, I told you so....

In the Storm, Teyla has done what she has always done...advocate for people. She's done it for many..she did it for the Assurians, and she will continue to do it...she is a person that is very much into looking out for others that cannot look out for themselves... As a leader of her people, she will put her life on the line for them and that is what she was doing in the storm...anything else, would have made her look like a coward and a poor leader. She told them to leave, and just because she said it without hesitation doesn't mean that she was indirectly telling them anything else. I give Carson and Ford more credit than that....That was their decision and if anything it was their fault that they got stuck there and thought of Teyla before going to Atlantis...and frankly, that is expected of them as well....Teyla is not like the people from Earth who choose which battles to fight and which not to fight....she has witnessed to many deaths in her lifetime that the Earthling will never understand....Life for her is more precious and has more meaning because for her everyday is a blessing...something that the Earthlings take for granted.

In understanding Teyla's background you will see that she is different and she doesn't fit your normal description..her life has been a life of fear and yet at the same time she has had to live as normal a life as possible....so whenever she can fight and defend and stand up to what she believes, she will let no one stand in her way...and that only comes from her life experiences and what distinguishes her from the others as not only a great leader but a compassionate woman who fights for life not only for herself but for others first..and the Earthlings have come to understand and respect Teyla for that...because in the end, they know that she will do the same for any of them. :teyla:

Her comment to Beckett was not a scold..it was a fact and again..she was only reiterating what the others already knew...and they respect her and listen to her for it. Again, Carson is not a baby or an idiot...he clearly spoke to Ford when he wanted to go and help John and Carson spoke up....everyone there knew the situation and they did the best with what little they had.


But, overall I don't want to see her replaced. I want the writers to start writing for her. She has potential and I want to like her, but I'm just getting tired of waiting.

I can't disagree with you on this! Teyla is my favorite character. The writers created her and although I know that she is never going to take the place of Sheppard, or McKay...I think they have enough there to make her shine like I know she does everytime they give her something to bite on!:teyla:

[Chailyn]

So true, but this was meant to be for Sheppard and his backstory

Yeah, I know. I guess I just didn't think it worked that great as a Sheppard ep. I would have preferred that Teyla got the lead in this, instead of being taken out early, since she was the only one not affected. I think it would have strengthened her character more than it did Sheppard's.


As far as Teyla knowing how to use and read the computer..well, if you go back to Intruder, Teyla was in charge of Atlantis along with Zelenka while the main guys were gone....she must have had some training by Weir and the others if she was left to run the place

I agree, but that's also what bugs me. We never got to see any of this. There was very little transition from Teyla as the leader of a non-Earth trading village, to Teyla sitting at a computer using a webcam. :confused:

I think that one of Teyla's most important allures is that she isn't from Earth. She comes from not only a different culture, but a different world. She has no idea what an Earth computer looks like. My grandmother, God bless her, has a computer in her living room, and yet still calls me when she can't figure out how to use the scroll bar. My point is that Teyla's "alieness" has been greatly downplayed to the point where unless you're a frequent viewer, you could confuse her for just another Earthling. Let her and Ronon have "techie" classes with Zelenka or, God forbid, Rodney. ;) Remind us that they're not from Earth once in a while. Do they like the food? Could our manners be misunderstood? They don't have to be long, major scenes, but I think that realistic little moments like those could really spark some more interest in the Teyla and Ronon characters, plus we'd get to see them bond more with their teammates. It just seems crazy that Rodney seems to have more social ills than them.

And, I guess we just have two different interpretations about "The Storm" episode. But, that's cool. :)

I just think it's a shame to create characters and then not seem to put the effort into them. I guess that I would like to see Teyla struggle with her identity on Atlantis more than what we've been given. She hinted to it, but again we haven't seen her struggles fitting in. She's living with people from another galaxy. She's adapted too easily in my opinion. And if there's a reason why she can adapt so quickly, then I need to know it and see it. I would like to see more struggle, more progression, and not just stick fighting. I guess I just don't want to see her go the road of Ford. :)

[NubianQueen]

I am getting wary of all the Mckay and Sheppard centric episodes. I wanna learn more about the Warith and I see more guest star appearances like Connor Trinneer return. He was so very sexy and I loved his chemistry with Rachel on screen.

When are we going to learn more about her backstory? More about her(character wise), I honestly don't see a flaw in her, if she has one. I love her decision making skills. But I think that her only flaw if she had one was her lack of interpersonal relationships with the Athosian people.

I honestly don't think that they are going to have an episode incorporating Teyla's people. How come?

NQ

[maxbo]

Yeah, I know. I guess I just didn't think it worked that great as a Sheppard ep. I would have preferred that Teyla got the lead in this, instead of being taken out early, since she was the only one not affected. I think it would have strengthened her character more than it did Sheppard's.

If TPTB intended Phantoms to be a Sheppard episode, then I agree that they didn't accomplish their goal because it was more of a team episode than a single character episode. And, I also agree that it would have been great to see an uninjured Teyla here, that way she could have been more in the foreground. Considering that there isn't a Teyla-centric episode this season, I don't know why they passed up the opportunity to center on Teyla here. It would have been interesting to see the events in Phantoms unfold through Teyla's eyes and watch her struggle to try to save her friends.


I agree, but that's also what bugs me. We never got to see any of this. There was very little transition from Teyla as the leader of a non-Earth trading village, to Teyla sitting at a computer using a webcam. :confused:

Not seeing Teyla learning about computers is par for the course for SGA, after all, we never got to see Shep teach Rodney how to use a gun, we never got to see Teyla learn how to use firearms and, except for a few episodes in Season 1, we haven't seen SGA explore Atlantis, yet, apparently, they've already explored a good deal of it. I was sorry to hear that because I was hoping that SGA would begin to focus on Atlantis more in the future.


I think that one of Teyla's most important allures is that she isn't from Earth. She comes from not only a different culture, but a different world. She has no idea what an Earth computer looks like. My grandmother, God bless her, has a computer in her living room, and yet still calls me when she can't figure out how to use the scroll bar.

As someone who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the computer age, I can tell you from personal experience that if you're not interested in computers then it doesn't matter whether you know what one looks like or not. In other words, being from Earth, isn't going to make using a computer for the first time any easier, if you not interested in them in the first place. I'm pleased to say that I'm now quite proficient with computers and it didn't take years to become so - all it took was motivation (work and school).

I have no trouble believing that Teyla has picked up whatever computer skills she's needed over the past 2+ years because she was motivated to do so. She knew she had to make the alliance with SGA work and because SGA is heavily tech based, she had to learn as much about technology as possible. In addition to being motivated, I believe that her natural curiosity also spurred her to learn as much as she could. I remember the scene in Home where she wondered if her people could have acheived as much as the people of Earth, if not for the Wraith. I also remember her wry response to Shep in Rising that her people had mastered fire long ago. The Home scene seen to indicate that Teyla regretted not being able to accomplish more and the Rising scene seemed to indicate that she was proud of what little her people had been able to master.

I don't ever expect to see TPTB take much time to explore the various Pegasus galaxy cultures or customs, but I agree with you that it would enrich SGA if they would give us tiny scenes that highlight some of the differences between Teyla's Athosian culture, Ronon's Satedan culture and some of the cultures of Earth.


I am getting wary of all the Mckay and Sheppard centric episodes. I wanna learn more about the Warith and I see more guest star appearances like Connor Trinneer return. He was so very sexy and I loved his chemistry with Rachel on screen.

When are we going to learn more about her backstory? More about her(character wise), I honestly don't see a flaw in her, if she has one. I love her decision making skills. But I think that her only flaw if she had one was her lack of interpersonal relationships with the Athosian people.

I honestly don't think that they are going to have an episode incorporating Teyla's people. How come?

Although I'm still loving the Shep and Rodney episodes, I agree that TPTB have to mix things up a bit. Especially when you consider that even in non-Shep and/or Rodney-centric episodes, they are still usually heavily featured.

I hope to see Michael return also, he and Teyla had a strange dynamic and it would be interesting to see what happens next. I, too, would love to find out more about Teyla, and, while I wouldn't mind a Teyla-centric episode, it's not necessary because, if written properly, bits of Teyla's backstory could be incorporated in non-Teyla centric episodes just as effectively, IMO.

For instance, I learned more about John in that short cafeteria scene in Sateda than in several Season 2 episodes and Sateda wasn't a Shep-centric episode. In addition, that scene followed up on Teyla's feelings from Season 1. And, Carson and Rodney's infirmary scene was also informative because it gave me an addition glimpse into their characters and their friendship. And all of this occurred in an episode that didn't center on any of those characters. Sateda was a great Ronon-centric episode that also included the other characters.

As for Teyla's flaws, she's got them, thank goodness, otherwise, I wouldn't find her interesting. Unfortunately, I doubt that we'll see the Athosians in any significant way in the future because they were immediately moved off stage to the mainland, just as the exploration of Atlantis also took place off stage - because TPTB just doesn't want to focus on those aspects of SGA.

[NubianQueen]

Why wouldn't the TPTB want to learn more about the Athosians. For me the Athosians of SGA are equivalent to the Jaffa of SG1. I found the Jaffa to be awesome people.

I bet the Athosians are awesome as well. However the way the TPTB are making the Athosians out to be is just this simple nomatic group.

Teal'c came from a highly civilizated society, the Jaffa, even though they were slaves of the Go'ald, they has technology that rivaled the SG1.

Teyla's people well not much can be said. So that drives me crazy with curiosity. When are we gonna learn more about Teyla's people? What else do they have to offer the Pegasus galaxy?

Message to the Writers: Quit making the Athosians this untanigable group of people. Flesh them out a bit, we already know more about the Genii than we do the Athosians.

I dunno but if I were Teyla I would stop being the Leader of the AthoSians and just explore the galaxy, because that tribe is holding her back.

[seldear]

LFT is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Teyla is. If Sheppard had died trying to save her friend (after she laid the guilt trip on him for not helping), then not only our team in Atlantis would have all died, but all of Teyla's people would have been killed or taken as well. Atlantis needed the information on the Wraith fleet, and staying to help one or two people was a poor decision. Sheppard should have been reprimanded for caving in to her whim and it definitely showed Teyla leads from the heart, instead of the head. That is not the type of person you want in charge in a life or death situation.

Let's play us a game here.

Spoilers for The Return Part One:

The Return part one is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Sheppard is. If the team died trying to save Atlantis from the Pegasus replicators, then not only our team in Atlantis would die, but all of Earth would be open to attack by the replicators. Earth needed firstly to stop the replicator threat in Atlantis, and one way that it certainly should not be done is by sending the four people who collectively have intimate knowledge of the city, of Earth codes and command structures, political acumen, and technological skill to Atlantis.

Sheppard's decision to go back to Atlantis is a poor decision and actually risks Earth. It definitely shows Sheppard leads with heart and not the head (or, if you want to point out that he misses being involved in Atlantis, it shows that he leads with the ego, not the head).

That is definitely not the kind of person you want to "lead" you around...

{end of comparison}

Do you understand?

Sheppard has, in The Return done exactly the same thing as Teyla did in Letters - risking an entire planet to satisfy his own needs on a personal scale - and yet I'm sure nobody's pointing out what a terrible leader he is.

Incidentally, Teyla made the decision to stay in LFP. She asked Sheppard to stay, and when he wouldn't, she took things into her own hands and told him he could come back for her later. I don't feel it was a guilt trip, I don't see Teyla working that way. She let him have his 'out' and gave him her permission to leave her behind.

Sheppard chose to respect her wishes, take the risk in the cloaked jumper and stay - a calculated one, based a little more on heart, and a little less on head. And he does the same thing in The Return Pt 1: makes a decision based on what he personally wants and not what is best for Atlantis and Earth. Precisely what Teyla is accused of doing and which allegedly makes her a 'bad leader'.

Sel.

[NoDot]

- and yet I'm sure nobody's pointing out what a terrible leader he is.To my knowledge, he's bashed right behind Weir. (I think it's his miso-Wraith-ic behavior from Misbegotten that lands him a lot of flac.)

[rarocks24]

Let's play us a game here.

Spoilers for The Return Part One:

The Return part one is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Sheppard is. If the team died trying to save Atlantis from the Pegasus replicators, then not only our team in Atlantis would die, but all of Earth would be open to attack by the replicators. Earth needed firstly to stop the replicator threat in Atlantis, and one way that it certainly should not be done is by sending the four people who collectively have intimate knowledge of the city, of Earth codes and command structures, political acumen, and technological skill to Atlantis.

Sheppard's decision to go back to Atlantis is a poor decision and actually risks Earth. It definitely shows Sheppard leads with heart and not the head (or, if you want to point out that he misses being involved in Atlantis, it shows that he leads with the ego, not the head).

That is definitely not the kind of person you want to "lead" you around...

{end of comparison}

Do you understand?

Sheppard has, in The Return done exactly the same thing as Teyla did in Letters - risking an entire planet to satisfy his own needs on a personal scale - and yet I'm sure nobody's pointing out what a terrible leader he is.

Incidentally, Teyla made the decision to stay in LFP. She asked Sheppard to stay, and when he wouldn't, she took things into her own hands and told him he could come back for her later. I don't feel it was a guilt trip, I don't see Teyla working that way. She let him have his 'out' and gave him her permission to leave her behind.

Sheppard chose to respect her wishes, take the risk in the cloaked jumper and stay - a calculated one, based a little more on heart, and a little less on head. And he does the same thing in The Return Pt 1: makes a decision based on what he personally wants and not what is best for Atlantis and Earth. Precisely what Teyla is accused of doing and which allegedly makes her a 'bad leader'.

Sel.

Dude...first off, yes, Sheppard launched an unordered rescue attempt to save Atlantis. On the other hand, it's not as if Daedalus isn't on it's way with a whole bunch of nukes anyways. :rolleyes:

Second, Sheppard has nothing here, Pegasus is his home.

[Rootortoise]

Let's play us a game here.

Spoilers for The Return Part One:

The Return part one is the one episode that shows what a terrible "leader" Sheppard is. If the team died trying to save Atlantis from the Pegasus replicators, then not only our team in Atlantis would die, but all of Earth would be open to attack by the replicators. Earth needed firstly to stop the replicator threat in Atlantis, and one way that it certainly should not be done is by sending the four people who collectively have intimate knowledge of the city, of Earth codes and command structures, political acumen, and technological skill to Atlantis.

Sheppard's decision to go back to Atlantis is a poor decision and actually risks Earth. It definitely shows Sheppard leads with heart and not the head (or, if you want to point out that he misses being involved in Atlantis, it shows that he leads with the ego, not the head).

That is definitely not the kind of person you want to "lead" you around...

{end of comparison}

Do you understand?

Sheppard has, in The Return done exactly the same thing as Teyla did in Letters - risking an entire planet to satisfy his own needs on a personal scale - and yet I'm sure nobody's pointing out what a terrible leader he is.

Incidentally, Teyla made the decision to stay in LFP. She asked Sheppard to stay, and when he wouldn't, she took things into her own hands and told him he could come back for her later. I don't feel it was a guilt trip, I don't see Teyla working that way. She let him have his 'out' and gave him her permission to leave her behind.

Sheppard chose to respect her wishes, take the risk in the cloaked jumper and stay - a calculated one, based a little more on heart, and a little less on head. And he does the same thing in The Return Pt 1: makes a decision based on what he personally wants and not what is best for Atlantis and Earth. Precisely what Teyla is accused of doing and which allegedly makes her a 'bad leader'.

Sel.
actually it wasnt just sheppard carson, rodney and elizabeth were all for going back and saving atlantis..they all made a decision to go back and save their home. they made sure they had a plan, and went to ronon and teyla for help. teyla wanting to stay in LFP put her life and sheppards in danger, and she guilted him into staying (knowing full well he wouldnt leave without her) she had no plan, it was just those two against a whole armada of wraith cruisers, darts and hives.

[NubianQueen]

OKay y'all, I guess TPTB will have to further prove Teyla's leadership capablilities because obviously there are those that doubt that she is an effective leader, based on an episode where she felt strongly and passionate about saving her father's friend's family.

So to all of you nay sayers, both Teyla and Sheppard have done things that most people believe is unbefitting of a leader. So stop pointing fingers at these characters and twisting it around about how one leadership decision was worthier that the others.

Queeny

[Osiris-RA]

Its just like Ford. The character has great potential but they don't give the character anything to do or set him/her apart. There are tons of potential stories ideas for Teyla and the Athosians. I just hope they don't get rid of the character because its easier to just have Hewlett and Flanningan shoot one liners back and forth.
Yeah. Ford had a lot of potential as a character, and personally, I thought he was more interesting. Folks who go against the grain always add a little spice, but apparantly SGA can't afford or doesn't approve of Ford's particular type of spice. :-/

I like Teyla purely because she's the only female on the show whom I can categorize as "cool". I'd love it if they gave her a little more to work with, the actress has great potential.

Maybe if she let her hair grow natural...

[jenks]

Dude...first off, yes, Sheppard launched an unordered rescue attempt to save Atlantis. On the other hand, it's not as if Daedalus isn't on it's way with a whole bunch of nukes anyways. :rolleyes:

Second, Sheppard has nothing here, Pegasus is his home.

Hmmm, I don't really think thats the point, why should Deddy have to bail him out... everytime he doesn't get what he wants he reacts like a brat, I'be noticed it alot in Sheppard...

[Kirath]

actually it wasnt just sheppard carson, rodney and elizabeth were all for going back and saving atlantis..they all made a decision to go back and save their home. they made sure they had a plan, and went to ronon and teyla for help. teyla wanting to stay in LFP put her life and sheppards in danger, and she guilted him into staying (knowing full well he wouldnt leave without her) she had no plan, it was just those two against a whole armada of wraith cruisers, darts and hives.

Bashing Teyla for not wanting to leave a close friend behind. Shepard does it all the time. In the pilot his attempt to rescue sumner and the rest awakened the wraith. In hotzone he ordered Bates to let him out of the room he was quarantined in and in doing so allowed he virus to spread to populated areas of the city.
Season 3 spoliers
In Allies he continued his attack on the Hive ships when he was ordered back to the Daedalus. In Sateda he went nuts when Caldwell ,his superior officer, was hesitant to risk a recently battle damaged Daedalus in a possible confrontation with a hiveship. in The Return part 1 just because they were all for it doesn't mean that it wasn't an act of insubordination. He's a military officer. He's supposed to follow orders. "We all thought it was a good idea" wouldn't go over well at a court martial.

In LFP Teyla understood John's position. she didn't ask him to stay, she only stated that she wasn't willing to leave her friend and his family behind. Teyla was perfectly willing to let John return to Atlantis while searched for him. She didn't complain when he tried to go straight to the gate when the cullling began. Teyla only wanted to save a family friend but didn't let her emotions get in the way of completing the mission. Teyla has lost her entire family to the Wraith and to the people of Pegasus there is no greater crime than leaving another to die at the hands of the them. remember the Teyla/Ronon subplot in Trinity. when Teyla found out the reason Ronon shot Kell, she understood and was willing to conceal from the others In her place you would not have done the same?

[bluealien]

Bashing Teyla for not wanting to leave a close friend behind. Shepard does it all the time. In the pilot his attempt to rescue sumner and the rest awakened the wraith. In hotzone he ordered Bates to let him out of the room he was quarantined in and in doing so allowed he virus to spread to populated areas of the city.
Season 3 spoliers
In Allies he continued his attack on the Hive ships when he was ordered back to the Daedalus. In Sateda he went nuts when Caldwell ,his superior officer, was hesitant to risk a recently battle damaged Daedalus in a possible confrontation with a hiveship. in The Return part 1 just because they were all for it doesn't mean that it wasn't an act of insubordination. He's a military officer. He's supposed to follow orders. "We all thought it was a good idea" wouldn't go over well at a court martial.

In LFP Teyla understood John's position. she didn't ask him to stay, she only stated that she wasn't willing to leave her friend and his family behind. Teyla was perfectly willing to let John return to Atlantis while searched for him. She didn't complain when he tried to go straight to the gate when the cullling began. Teyla only wanted to save a family friend but didn't let her emotions get in the way of completing the mission. Teyla has lost her entire family to the Wraith and to the people of Pegasus there is no greater crime than leaving another to die at the hands of the them. remember the Teyla/Ronon subplot in Trinity. when Teyla found out the reason Ronon shot Kell, she understood and was willing to conceal from the others In her place you would not have done the same?


Well said,

Its getting pretty tiresome that its fine for Sheppard to do whatever he likes to save the people he cares about - but Teyla is a bad leader when she tries to do the same.


Teyla didn't put anyones life at risk in LFP - she ACCEPTED Sheppards orders to leave the planet and ONLY after they got stuck there did she mention again that John should wait at the place she had agreed with Orin.

The Wraith Armada was not on its way to Atlantis - it was heading to the planet to cull everyone and they were in a cloaked jumper so were not in any danger. There was no clock ticking to get the intel back to Atlantis at any particular time and no lives were hanging in the balance because of this intel. When John did pass on the info to Weir - she didn't rush off and do anything with it. So why would waiting a few more hours on the planet jeopardise the mission. John put his own life at risk when he left the jumper - eventhough Teyla tried to stop him.

Teyla didn't do anything more than try and save a few lives that were like family to her. She was not asking John to go around and randomly save people - just one family. Her compassion and loyalty to those she cares about is no different to what Sheppard did for Ronan when he was willing to put the entire crew of the Daedalus at risk to save one man. Both Teyla and John are great leaders because they lead from the heart as well as the head.

[Luz]

I cannot begin to tell you how funny it is to see some people who so readily attack other characters for their mistakes, but are so quick to find excuses when it comes to their perfect Teyla.


In LFP Teyla understood John's position. she didn't ask him to stay, she only stated that she wasn't willing to leave her friend and his family behind.

TEYLA: If they do come, stay far from the Stargate. Take your family to the far tree line, there, (she points) and wait for us.
SHEPPARD: Teyla ...
TEYLA: One family, Major, that is all I ask.
(John looks round at the villagers, then turns to Orin.)
SHEPPARD: I’m sorry, Orin, I can’t make that promise.
TEYLA (to John): It will be the very least we can do.
(Orin looks hopefully at John.)
SHEPPARD: If there’s time.

I don't about you, but to me it looked like Teyla forcing Sheppard's hand, IMO she's very passive aggressive, she acts all righteous most of the time, doesn't say what she really thinks, and just stands aside with her holier than thou attitude.

[bluealien]

I cannot begin to tell you how funny it is to see some people who so readily attack other characters for their mistakes, but are so quick to find excuses when it comes to their perfect Teyla.

I don't see anything funny. Who is attacking anyone here!!! and what mistakes are you talking about. I really didn't see any mistakes just a difference of opinions.



TEYLA: If they do come, stay far from the Stargate. Take your family to the far tree line, there, (she points) and wait for us.
SHEPPARD: Teyla ...
TEYLA: One family, Major, that is all I ask.
(John looks round at the villagers, then turns to Orin.)
SHEPPARD: I’m sorry, Orin, I can’t make that promise.
TEYLA (to John): It will be the very least we can do.
(Orin looks hopefully at John.)
SHEPPARD: If there’s time.

I don't about you, but to me it looked like Teyla forcing Sheppard's hand, IMO she's very passive aggressive, she acts all righteous most of the time, doesn't say what she really thinks, and just stands aside with her holier than thou attitude.




John isn't the type of guy to have his hand forced by anyone. He is quite capable of making his own decisions without anyone forcing his hand. He made his decision on the events that transpired after the above conversation and I explained exactly what occured after they were stuck on the planet.

If wanting to save your family is acting all righteous then as I also said before John must also suffer from this affliction.

[SGLAB]

TEYLA: If they do come, stay far from the Stargate. Take your family to the far tree line, there, (she points) and wait for us.
SHEPPARD: Teyla ...
TEYLA: One family, Major, that is all I ask.
(John looks round at the villagers, then turns to Orin.)
SHEPPARD: I’m sorry, Orin, I can’t make that promise.
TEYLA (to John): It will be the very least we can do.
(Orin looks hopefully at John.)
SHEPPARD: If there’s time.

I don't about you, but to me it looked like Teyla forcing Sheppard's hand, IMO she's very passive aggressive, she acts all righteous most of the time, doesn't say what she really thinks, and just stands aside with her holier than thou attitude.

This is exactly the scene I had a problem with. She should have discussed this with John in private instead of asking right in front of her friend. That made it very personal and I it seemed like she thought it was perfectly acceptable play on his emotions like that. Yes it worked out in the end, but I felt she handled it poorly and never came to realize that.

[maxbo]

I cannot begin to tell you how funny it is to see some people who so readily attack other characters for their mistakes, but are so quick to find excuses when it comes to their perfect Teyla.

What's the basis for this comment? I just read over the other posts and I didn't see anyone attacking other characters. Nor, did I see posters finding excuses for "their perfect Teyla."

What I did read were posters explaining why they understood Teyla's actions in LFP, and, other posters explaining why they didn't understand her actions. No attacking - just differences of opinions.



TEYLA: If they do come, stay far from the Stargate. Take your family to the far tree line, there, (she points) and wait for us.
SHEPPARD: Teyla ...
TEYLA: One family, Major, that is all I ask.
(John looks round at the villagers, then turns to Orin.)
SHEPPARD: I’m sorry, Orin, I can’t make that promise.
TEYLA (to John): It will be the very least we can do.
(Orin looks hopefully at John.)
SHEPPARD: If there’s time.

I don't about you, but to me it looked like Teyla forcing Sheppard's hand, IMO she's very passive aggressive, she acts all righteous most of the time, doesn't say what she really thinks, and just stands aside with her holier than thou attitude.


This is exactly the scene I had a problem with. She should have discussed this with John in private instead of asking right in front of her friend. That made it very personal and I it seemed like she thought it was perfectly acceptable play on his emotions like that. Yes it worked out in the end, but I felt she handled it poorly and never came to realize that.

In that scene, there's no question that Teyla blindsided John and could have handled the situation better, but you know what? I loved that she messed up because it showed that she's human and far from "perfect." I didn't see a woman who thought it was acceptable to play on Sheppard's emotions, IMO, that scene showed a woman who was far more focused on trying to save her friends than she was about being the diplomat.

Was it unfair to put Sheppard in that situation? Of course, it was unfair, however, with a seemingly unstoppable enemy bearing down on them, I understood Teyla's position, just as I understood John's. He didn't know those people so he didn't have a personal stake in going above and beyond to help them when he had a mission to complete.

IMO, neither character was right or wrong in the scenes that followed, they were just human and this fact made for several uncomfortable and powerful scenes.

[SGLAB]

In that scene, there's no question that Teyla blindsided John and could have handled the situation better, but you know what? I loved that she messed up because it showed that she's human and far from "perfect." I didn't see a woman who thought it was acceptable to play on Sheppard's emotions, IMO, that scene showed a woman who was far more focused on trying to save her friends than she was about being the diplomat.

You're right. It does show she's not perfect and that's a good thing. I just didn't feel like there was any resolution to that conflict and that she didn't seem to realize later that it was wrong of her to do that to him. I think it's something the writers tend to fail at in Stargate. They'll throw out some conflict between two characters and either do a poor job of resolving it or just drop it without trying to resolve it at all.

[Luz]

What's the basis for this comment? I just read over the other posts and I didn't see anyone attacking other characters. Nor, did I see posters finding excuses for "their perfect Teyla."


For a moment there it seemed like this thread was going to turn into a Sheppard bashing session just to prove that no one can criticize Teyla because other people have done in other people's opinion worse.
As far as LFP goes, I found Teyla's behavior poor, she resorted to emotionally blackmailing Sheppard "okay, you leave me here, don't worry about me even though I'm probably gonna have the life sucked out of me like my friends there", passive-aggressive.
I wish she'd be a bit more energetic, more pro-active, instead of just standing around keeping her mouth shut, and then acting all self righteous when people don't follow her feebly made suggestions. Honestly, that sarcastic little self satisfied smile she gives when she thinks someone is doing something wrong doesn't cut it.

[FoolishPleasure]

Unfortunately it's a trend I've seen all to often on other threads frequented by Teyla fans, bashing other characters to the ground while making Teyla untouchable.
As far as LFP goes, I found Teyla's behavior poor, she resorted to emotionally blackmailing Sheppard "okay, you leave me here, don't worry about me even though I'm probably gonna have the life sucked out of me like my friends there", passive-aggressive.
I wish she'd be a bit more energetic, more pro-active, instead of just standing around keeping her mouth shut, and then acting all self righteous when people don't follow her feebly made suggestions. Honestly, that sarcastic little self satisfied smile she gives when she thinks someone is doing something wrong doesn't cut it.

I really took a dislike to Teyla in this episode, and felt the same way about her "emotional blackmail". Teyla has spent a lifetime of dodging the Wraith and she, more than anyone, should have understood there are sacrifices we make so that the majority can live. The writers should have had Teyla pass on saving her friends in order to save her own people, and deal with the emotional consequences. It would have made for some great (much needed) character development, but instead we get a bunch of petty bickering between her and Sheppard.

But I didn't like Sheppard in this episode either - as a good officer, he should have stood his ground, not caving in to emotional tirades from a subordinate. He should have told her, "Tough, we have to get back to Atlantis" and done a bit of explaining about collateral damage in times of war. ;)

[Luz]

But I didn't like Sheppard in this episode either - as a good officer, he should have stood his ground, not caving in to emotional tirades from a subordinate. He should have told her, "Tough, we have to get back to Atlantis" and done a bit of explaining about collateral damage in times of war. ;)
Well, I did like Sheppard on that episode, but ITA, he shouldn't have caved, he should have told her to suck it up, they had more important things to focus on.

On a totally unrelated note, did they ever found out what that big light thingy that looked like a tornado was?.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h280/Schumpeter/rayoflight.jpg

[kymeric]

You're right. It does show she's not perfect and that's a good thing. I just didn't feel like there was any resolution to that conflict and that she didn't seem to realize later that it was wrong of her to do that to him. I think it's something the writers tend to fail at in Stargate. They'll throw out some conflict between two characters and either do a poor job of resolving it or just drop it without trying to resolve it at all.

Sounds like real life to me :-D

[maxbo]

Why wouldn't the TPTB want to learn more about the Athosians. For me the Athosians of SGA are equivalent to the Jaffa of SG1. I found the Jaffa to be awesome people.

I bet the Athosians are awesome as well. However the way the TPTB are making the Athosians out to be is just this simple nomatic group.

Teal'c came from a highly civilizated society, the Jaffa, even though they were slaves of the Go'ald, they has technology that rivaled the SG1.

Teyla's people well not much can be said. So that drives me crazy with curiosity. When are we gonna learn more about Teyla's people? What else do they have to offer the Pegasus galaxy?

Message to the Writers: Quit making the Athosians this untanigable group of people. Flesh them out a bit, we already know more about the Genii than we do the Athosians.

I dunno but if I were Teyla I would stop being the Leader of the AthoSians and just explore the galaxy, because that tribe is holding her back.

I've given up on hoping that TPTB will delve into Athosian history, so I've turned to fanfic to fill gaps. Unfortunately, Athosian-related fanfic is also sparse. However, I just found a new fic that you may enjoy, The Thermopylae (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3203289/1/) by Tipper.

This fanfic author is one of the best Team fanfic writers I've come across because although she focuses on Sheppard and McKay (like most fanfic writers :D ), when she includes other characters in her fics, she really writes for those characters rather than just using them to react to Sheppard and/or McKay.

This author has such an incredible gift for nailing the characters' voices that reading her fanfic often feels like watching a very good SGA episode.

There are other very good Team fanfic writers out there, but your post made me think of this fic because it's rare that Athosian history is touched on in fanfic, especially Team fanfic.

[bluealien]

=Luz;5941864]Well, I did like Sheppard on that episode, but ITA, he shouldn't have caved, he should have told her to suck it up, they had more important things to focus on.

Saving lives is not important?.


So when Sheppard wanted to risk the entire crew of the Daedalus for one man - and put the only ship Altantis has in danger - Caldwell should really have told John to suck it up as they had more pressing things to focus on and not cave to a subordinate. But he did cave or compromise as I would call it because after listening to Sheppard he decided that it was worth the risk to try and save a life and that is what Sheppard did in LFP - upon weighing up the situation he came to the decision that they could help a few people and by doing so at least it would count for something amongst the carnage he had witnessed. So there was no arm twisting, no manipulation but two people coming to a compromise that resulted in saving the lives of a few people and this is never considered unimportant.

[Jeyla4ever]

Well said blue!

Did anyone realize that there was a resolution....John at the end quoted Teyla's words to him to Weir...which to me imply that in the end, he recognized that he was wrong....one life is worth saving in this galaxy!

As my friend pointed out...John held a child in his arms at the end there right before he was almost beamed up by the Wraith...a child means innocence, purity....who wouldn't go and save a child?

anyone?

John was wrong....and he for whatever reason..whatever demons he was fighting with...Teyla made him see that he was wrong.....she did nothing but want to save her family and he didn't want to or didn't see it....but when he heard her say that she would stay, he realized that she really did care for these people why, because he realized that he wasn't going to leave her behind...cause he cared for her....

not only that..he came to realize his wrong doings..like I said, when he saw the lives that they actually did saved..these were families, children...and it mattered to save just a few!

The only thing Teyla believed as my friend put it is that she thought John wouldn't have a problem with saving lives...he's never had it before....why now?

I think John was fighting in between his own demons of being the soldier that listens to his superior...clearly this wasn't the normal John that risked his life and went and argue with Weir in the balcony for the people he didn't even know in Rising...so, there was more to this that was going on in him....Teyla did what any human being would do, go and save her family, her friends...she never underminded John and she never went against anything he said until the point where she had control of her own decision and she had every right to do that!

[NubianQueen]

At the same token, Teyla does have a flaw.

Remember in the episode where the Genii and the SGA team teamed up to check out a wraith hive ship. Remember when Teyla and that one Genii solider (Sora's father) were arguing about saving the guy from the Hive incubators.

In my opinion Teyla should have listened to that Genii solider and leave that dude in the hive incubator alone. But instead she went in and tried to save him and helped to cause the hive ship to wake up and kill Sora's father in the process.

Teyla can be stubborn at times. And I believe she learned her lesson because she made an enemy (Sora) because of her actions. Now you hardly see her stand up to the SGA team when making ethical decisions. Hence, "Michael", I always felt like she could have done more but she held back, Teyla was on the fence about the whole experiment.

I believe that in Teyla's mind, she was at fault for Sora's father's death at that hive ship. And rightly so Sora still seeks revenge on Teyla. Teyla's got some serious enemies in the Genii community.

She had better watch her back. Sora is lurking somewhere in the shadows, just waiting for her time to strike.

NQ

[expendable_crewman]

At the same token, Teyla does have a flaw.

Remember in the episode where the Genii and the SGA team teamed up to check out a wraith hive ship. Remember when Teyla and that one Genii solider (Sora's father) were arguing about saving the guy from the Hive incubators.

In my opinion Teyla should have listened to that Genii solider and leave that dude in the hive incubator alone. But instead she went in and tried to save him and helped to cause the hive ship to wake up and kill Sora's father in the process.

Teyla can be stubborn at times. And I believe she learned her lesson because she made an enemy (Sora) because of her actions. Now you hardly see her stand up to the SGA team when making ethical decisions. Hence, "Michael", I always felt like she could have done more but she held back, Teyla was on the fence about the whole experiment.

I believe that in Teyla's mind, she was at fault for Sora's father's death at that hive ship. And rightly so Sora still seeks revenge on Teyla. Teyla's got some serious enemies in the Genii community.

She had better watch her back. Sora is lurking somewhere in the shadows, just waiting for her time to strike.

NQI'll check out the ep again, but I'm pretty sure the decision to rescue the cocooned people was a team decision. Everyone is together with her when they find that part of the Hive ship. Sheppard (again, I'm pretty sure but not 100%) tells Teyla to stay and take care of the cocooned people. After the team and Cowen go, Sora's father then refuses to let Teyla help a prisoner and a conflict ensues.

I know I thought the scene went the way that you saw it the first time I watched the ep and I was surprised when I re-watched it to see Sheppard saying something to Teyla about it.

Hey, I could be totally wrong and I'll check it out when I get home. Anyone else have the season one DVD?

As for Sora, I saw a spot on a special content thing with Torri Higginson joking that as far as unfinished business goes, Sora was a prisoner in Atlantis. I also heard that a clip of Sora being exchanged for Genii nukes was filmed for, but later snipped from, Seige 2. I'd love to see Sora pop up somewhere and interact with Teyla.

While I don't agree that Teyla and Sora still have a grudge ... and while I do not see Teyla as being in the wrong in The Underground, I like the two women together on screen.

[expendable_crewman]

Saving lives is not important?.


So when Sheppard wanted to risk the entire crew of the Daedalus for one man - and put the only ship Altantis has in danger - Caldwell should really have told John to suck it up as they had more pressing things to focus on and not cave to a subordinate. But he did cave or compromise as I would call it because after listening to Sheppard he decided that it was worth the risk to try and save a life and that is what Sheppard did in LFP - upon weighing up the situation he came to the decision that they could help a few people and by doing so at least it would count for something amongst the carnage he had witnessed. So there was no arm twisting, no manipulation but two people coming to a compromise that resulted in saving the lives of a few people and this is never considered unimportant.Bluealien, I tried to give you a green jello for saying in just one paragrpah what would have taken me four or five paragraphs, but the forum stopped me and said I needed to spread the love. I must agree with you a lot!

Anyway, I loved the LFP comparison to Sateda and the Caldwell / Sheppard conversation. It's nice to see when / where the episode writing is consistent.

[Kirath]

At the same token, Teyla does have a flaw.

Remember in the episode where the Genii and the SGA team teamed up to check out a wraith hive ship. Remember when Teyla and that one Genii solider (Sora's father) were arguing about saving the guy from the Hive incubators.

In my opinion Teyla should have listened to that Genii solider and leave that dude in the hive incubator alone. But instead she went in and tried to save him and helped to cause the hive ship to wake up and kill Sora's father in the process.

Teyla can be stubborn at times. And I believe she learned her lesson because she made an enemy (Sora) because of her actions. Now you hardly see her stand up to the SGA team when making ethical decisions. Hence, "Michael", I always felt like she could have done more but she held back, Teyla was on the fence about the whole experiment.

I believe that in Teyla's mind, she was at fault for Sora's father's death at that hive ship. And rightly so Sora still seeks revenge on Teyla. Teyla's got some serious enemies in the Genii community.

She had better watch her back. Sora is lurking somewhere in the shadows, just waiting for her time to strike.

NQ
Just rewatched the scene. As Teyla neared the cocoon the man woke up.
The Wraith weren't alerted to their position until sora's father shot the prisoner in cold blood. He was conscious and begging for help and Tyrus killed him to shut him up, rather then just cutting him free. as if the Wraith guard wouldn't have heard the automatic weapons fire. Teyla has issues with leaving people in the hands of the Wraith, just like Sheppard doesn't leave a man behind or Ronan's proclamtion that he won't leave pegasus until every single wraith is dead. It's called being human. Teyla has had to watch the Wraith harvest her friends and family like cattle all her life so you can't expect her to sit by and do nothing. its her version of a Jaffa revenge thing. That scene was meant to show just how ruthless the Genii are. You have a guy screaming for help and all they had to do was cut him free, but i'll just shoot instead. the Genii planned to double cross the team from the get go regardless of what Teyla did. their soldiers were already lying in wait for the team when they came thru the gate. Though Teyla should have remembered that it wasn't a rescue mission, the teams conflict with the Genni was not her fault.

[expendable_crewman]

I did the homework on Underground as promised.

Teyla and friends reach the part of the hive ship that has cocooned prisoners. Someone (Sheppard's team) makes note of this to the others, suggesting that there might be a prisoner still alive.

Cowen says they have no time to save people.

Sheppard says to Cowen that the cocooned people could be his (Genii) for all he, Cowen, knows. Then Sheppard tells Teyla to take care of it, which is interesting, considering Underground is before LFP.

Teyla goes to look for live prisoners. Tyrus and Cowen exchange glances, like yeah, they really don't have time for this, and Tyrus seems to be reassuring Cowen (my take on it) by volunteering to stay with Teyla.

McKay, Sheppard, and Cowen take off.

My take on that sequence was that per Sheppard's orders (with which she concurred wholeheartedly) Teyla was supposed to look for living victims and Tyrus was to make sure she didn't save anyone.

[seldear]

I haven't really been keeping up with this thread, and I don't believe I will in future.

People who don't want to believe anything good of her or see anything worthwhile in her (as seems to be the state of quite a few posters here) are unlikely to change their minds - no matter what I, or anyone else - fan, actor, or PTB - say.

There are aspects I dislike about all the characters; that doesn't mean I write off any character wholesale - they each have positives that I allow myself to be open to. Similarly, there are aspects I dislike about many fans on this board; and as a general rule, I try to avoid writing them off wholesale.

Heading back to the original purpose of the thread:

Whatever other people may think of Teyla, it seems that TPTB think enough of the character to be looking at not only episodes centered around Teyla, but also a plot-arc for her in Season Four.

Friends of Science Fiction Convention Report (http://community.livejournal.com/teylafen/55331.html) (Sydney): guests were Rachel Luttrell, David Nykl, and Tony Amendola. The link goes to an LJ community of Teyla-fans, so the focus of the report is about Rachel's panel.

cheers,
Sel.

[FoolishPleasure]

My take on that sequence was that per Sheppard's orders (with which she concurred wholeheartedly) Teyla was supposed to look for living victims and Tyrus was to make sure she didn't save anyone.

Remember - the team's infiltration of a hive ship was for recon purposes. They did not want the Wraith to know they had ever been there. Rescuing someone would have tipped off the Wraith that someone had been there.

As the transcript shows:

TEYLA: What are you doing?!

TYRUS: You want to free him. We can save none of them!

TEYLA: What?!

COCOON MAN: Please! Help!

TEYLA: You would leave him here to die?

TYRUS: Listen to me, the Wraith must not know we were ever here!

[TEYLA tries to help the man. TYRUS shoves her away.]

TYRUS: I said no!

TYRUS: [whispering] If you free him, they will know he was taken then.

TEYLA: [whispering] You are not the man I believed you to be.

TYRUS: This ship is closest to our world. The Genii will be the first to die if they awaken!
COCOON MAN: [louder] Help me!

[TEYLA makes a move to help the cocoon man. TYRUS raises his gun at her.]

TYRUS: I said leave him!

COCOON MAN: NO!!

TYRUS: Be silent! [shoots the man]

COCOON MAN: Ahhh! [dies]

As you can see, Tyrus was worried about his entire race as THEY would bear the full force of the Wraith fury if they discovered humans had been on their ship! Teyla was worried about ONE person. Teyla should have realized how important this mission was - sometimes you have to sacrifice one person. She not only got Tyrus killed, but put all the Genii people at risk. She should have been severely reprimanded for her behavior during this mission.

[NubianQueen]

Statement on Teyla's action to follow orders from Sheppard regarding saving survivors on the hive ship "the cocoon man".

Teyla was following Sheppard's orders, so what was her crime? What did she do wrong? The answer is NOTHING!

Some posters on here blame Teyla for following orders from Sheppard in this episode and then turn around and blame her for speaking out, standing for what she believes in and trying to make the best out of a situation by saving her father's friend's family and other people on a distant planet, in another episode.

SO where does this bashing stem from?

[NubianQueen]

At the same token, Teyla does have a flaw.

Remember in the episode where the Genii and the SGA team teamed up to check out a wraith hive ship. Remember when Teyla and that one Genii solider (Sora's father) were arguing about saving the guy from the Hive incubators.

In my opinion Teyla should have listened to that Genii solider and leave that dude in the hive incubator alone. But instead she went in and tried to save him and helped to cause the hive ship to wake up and kill Sora's father in the process.

Teyla can be stubborn at times. And I believe she learned her lesson because she made an enemy (Sora) because of her actions. Now you hardly see her stand up to the SGA team when making ethical decisions. Hence, "Michael", I always felt like she could have done more but she held back, Teyla was on the fence about the whole experiment.

I believe that in Teyla's mind, she was at fault for Sora's father's death at that hive ship. And rightly so Sora still seeks revenge on Teyla. Teyla's got some serious enemies in the Genii community.

She had better watch her back. Sora is lurking somewhere in the shadows, just waiting for her time to strike.

NQ

I stand corrected. After indeed rewatching the entire episode of Underground and particularly that hive scene. I was wrong in partially blaming Teyla for waking up the Wraith and killing Sora's Dad.

It was clearly out of her control. She was indeed following orders, given directly from Sheppard. She tried to carry them out but Sora's father prevented her from doing so and from his P.O.V with good reason pointed out by Foolishpleasure.

SO in the end, Teyla was in the right. And Sora needs to accept the fact that Teyla was telling her the truth about her father's death.


NQ

[expendable_crewman]

Remember - the team's infiltration of a hive ship was for recon purposes. They did not want the Wraith to know they had ever been there. Rescuing someone would have tipped off the Wraith that someone had been there.

As the transcript shows:

TEYLA: What are you doing?!

TYRUS: You want to free him. We can save none of them!

TEYLA: What?!

COCOON MAN: Please! Help!

TEYLA: You would leave him here to die?

TYRUS: Listen to me, the Wraith must not know we were ever here!

[TEYLA tries to help the man. TYRUS shoves her away.]

TYRUS: I said no!

TYRUS: [whispering] If you free him, they will know he was taken then.

TEYLA: [whispering] You are not the man I believed you to be.

TYRUS: This ship is closest to our world. The Genii will be the first to die if they awaken!
COCOON MAN: [louder] Help me!

[TEYLA makes a move to help the cocoon man. TYRUS raises his gun at her.]

TYRUS: I said leave him!

COCOON MAN: NO!!

TYRUS: Be silent! [shoots the man]

COCOON MAN: Ahhh! [dies]

As you can see, Tyrus was worried about his entire race as THEY would bear the full force of the Wraith fury if they discovered humans had been on their ship! Teyla was worried about ONE person. Teyla should have realized how important this mission was - sometimes you have to sacrifice one person. She not only got Tyrus killed, but put all the Genii people at risk. She should have been severely reprimanded for her behavior during this mission.You must have missed the first part of my post. However, it's understandable if one is in a hurry. I can help by adding the part of the episode transcript that you left out ... it comes directly before the sequence you inserted and places the Teyla / Tyrus conflict in context:

LATER. The team makes its way carefully through the ship, Cowen indicating which way they should go. After a while they enter a large chamber. Around the walls are the skeletal bodies of humans, wrapped in spiderweb-like cocooning.

McKAY: Oh, my God!

(He bends down to a body sitting on the floor.)

TEYLA: These people were cocooned for a later feeding. Some of them may still be alive.

COWEN: We don't have time for this.

SHEPPARD: They could be your people for all you know. Alright, Teyla, take care of this. We'll meet you back at the ship. McKay, you're with me.

TYRUS (to Cowen): I'll stay with her. (He hands Cowen the Wraith data device.) Go. We'll meet you back at the ship.

(Cowen follows after John and Rodney. Teyla and Tyrus start to walk around the chamber, investigating the bodies.)

The only reason Teyla separates from Sheppard and McKay is to look for Wraith culling survivors, at Sheppard's command.

I get it that in that scene there was an unpleasant result. I saw a leader and a father execute an unarmed civilian. It was very unpleasant. I suspect that within the context of the episode, the total episode, the scene was there to show the lengths to which the Genii would go without regard for others. As Sheppard pointed out, the prisoner could have been Genii. Tyrus really didn't know. Didn't care. On the other hand, the true hero does have regard for others as well as guidelines for behavior / codes of conduct that should not be discarded.

Even in military scenarios. The military has a bucketload of rules and when a soldier shoots an unarmed civilian, he or she is prosecuted as a criminal, rightly so.

If I read your reply quickly, it looks like you're suggesting Teyla should be reprimanded for attempting to save a life as ordered ... while Tyrus is a patriot and a victim for taking one. You didn't really mean that, did you?

[FoolishPleasure]

If I read your reply quickly, it looks like you're suggesting Teyla should be reprimanded for attempting to save a life as ordered ... while Tyrus is a patriot and a victim for taking one. You didn't really mean that, did you?
I did read your first part of the transcript and both Cowen and Tyrus were willing to leave one, or a few of their "own" in order for their recon mission to be successful. The Genii would be the race in jeopardy if the boarding party was discovered, and they knew it. Neither Sheppard nor Teyla had a worry for their own at this point. Tyrus didn't want to kill anyone, but he knew for sure they would be suspected if Teyla actually removed someone. If Teyla had heeded the advice from Cowen and Tyrus and left that one man, no one on the mission would have died, and it would have been successful.

I actually had a problem with Sheppard here as well. As an officer in a command situation, he should have known it was irresponsible to remove anyone and still keep the mission secret.

Leaving behind a villager, informant, civilian happens all the time, and will be done again. While the military tries to help best it can, their number one priority is the success of the mission. Sometimes innocents are purposely sacrificed. Its called "collateral damage" and it is acceptable in some circumstances.

[expendable_crewman]

I did read your first part of the transcript and both Cowen and Tyrus were willing to leave one, or a few of their "own" in order for their recon mission to be successful. The Genii would be the race in jeopardy if the boarding party was discovered, and they knew it. Neither Sheppard nor Teyla had a worry for their own at this point.Teyla had been worrying about her race as it pertains to living in jeopardy of death by Wraith from infancy. As she explained in Rising, the Wraith scourge had gone on time out of mind. Tempering her fear of the Wraith with courage and compassion has been a plus for this character.

Sheppard and the Atlantis expedition began losing team members to the Wraith in the series opener. In addition, Sheppard was a combat-trained military officer. Living in jepardy of attack by an enemy was not new to him.

It's what you do in a crisis, even a crisis of survival, that defines your humanity.

This has been a nice theme in Stargate. I like it.
Tyrus didn't want to kill anyoneHe was written quite clearly killing someone. The choices made by this character and by Cowen, who throughout the episode threatened to injure or kill Atlantis team members, were tools to instruct the viewer as to the nature of the Genii in future episodes. The Genii, under Cowen, have adhered to the background as laid down by this episode.
but he knew for sure they would be suspected if Teyla actually removed someone. If Teyla had heeded the advice from Cowen and Tyrus and left that one man, no one on the mission would have died, and it would have been successful.Okay, I'm going to have trouble with the act of shooting to death an unarmed civilian by one character getting blamed on the character actually trying to save that civilian, but that's because I spent ten years in the Marines and I know the military doesn't function that way.

There are two scenarios in which the military can encounter civilians on a mission. One involves a covert operation and the other comes during action. Under fire, some latitude is given to military personnel for mistakes. Mistakes. But to go into an enemy camp and actually leave behind civilian prisoners would be anathema to me. Tactically speaking, in the scenario presented during Underground, saving the man was infinitely better for the mission than executing him.
I actually had a problem with Sheppard here as well. As an officer in a command situation, he should have known it was irresponsible to remove anyone and still keep the mission secret.

Leaving behind a villager, informant, civilian happens all the time, and will be done again. While the military tries to help best it can, their number one priority is the success of the mission. Sometimes innocents are purposely sacrificed. Its called "collateral damage" and it is acceptable in some circumstances.Collateral damage is dramatized on TV quite frequently and believe me with gross inaccuracies. There's been a lot of talk on this thread about who is and who is not worth saving, who should be sacrificed, and when.

In the context of the Underground episode, we the viewers are being introduced to a dangerous, self-serving, and duplicitous new enemy. The Genii went on to fit the bill nicely.

As far as the rest goes, Sheppard and Teyla's reaction to the "food chamber" was the closest to RL. When I see chatter about sacrificing innocents, I'm reminded of the distance we at our computers have from that particular reality. I wonder how cavalier those chatterers would be about sacrificing innocents when the sacrificing is getting done by them or someone they know.

When you're charged to defend people, you do it with standards.

Missions are about people. People are the big picture. And when people get in the way, if all the players are honorable, missions change. Believe me, you want it that way.

[andebry]

Teyla had been worrying about her race as it pertains to living in jeopardy of death by Wraith from infancy. As she explained in Rising, the Wraith scourge had gone on time out of mind. Tempering her fear of the Wraith with courage and compassion has been a plus for this character.

Sheppard and the Atlantis expedition began losing team members to the Wraith in the series opener. In addition, Sheppard was a combat-trained military officer. Living in jepardy of attack by an enemy was not new to him.

It's what you do in a crisis, even a crisis of survival, that defines your humanity.

This has been a nice theme in Stargate. I like it.He was written quite clearly killing someone. The choices made by this character and by Cowen, who throughout the episode threatened to injure or kill Atlantis team members, were tools to instruct the viewer as to the nature of the Genii in future episodes. The Genii, under Cowen, have adhered to the background as laid down by this episode.Okay, I'm going to have trouble with the act of shooting to death an unarmed civilian by one character getting blamed on the character actually trying to save that civilian, but that's because I spent ten years in the Marines and I know the military doesn't function that way.

There are two scenarios in which the military can encounter civilians on a mission. One involves a covert operation and the other comes during action. Under fire, some latitude is given to military personnel for mistakes. Mistakes. But to go into an enemy camp and actually leave behind civilian prisoners would be anathema to me. Tactically speaking, in the scenario presented during Underground, saving the man was infinitely better for the mission than executing him.Collateral damage is dramatized on TV quite frequently and believe me with gross inaccuracies. There's been a lot of talk on this thread about who is and who is not worth saving, who should be sacrificed, and when.

In the context of the Underground episode, we the viewers are being introduced to a dangerous, self-serving, and duplicitous new enemy. The Genii went on to fit the bill nicely.

As far as the rest goes, Sheppard and Teyla's reaction to the "food chamber" was the closest to RL. When I see chatter about sacrificing innocents, I'm reminded of the distance we at our computers have from that particular reality. I wonder how cavalier those chatterers would be about sacrificing innocents when the sacrificing is getting done by them or someone they know.

When you're charged to defend people, you do it with standards.

Missions are about people. People are the big picture. And when people get in the way, if all the players are honorable, missions change. Believe me, you want it that way.



Very nicely put. Having also been in the military I know that purposely killing a civilian is not acceptable. Freeing that one person would not have alerted the wraith. In the Lost boys/Hive episodes Ford talks about the lack of internal security on wraith ships and how he escaped. In the very least, helping that man would have kept him quiet without firing a weapon -- which did alert the wraith to their presence,

[Jeyla4ever]

Are we forgetting that ultimately even Cowen disregarded the fact that Tyrus was out there..if he cared so much, why didn't he fight to go back and get him or at least go himself and try....

No, he was too busy already knowing that the Genii would be waiting for them once the puddle jumper landed...they were using the team and they were not in no mission to save anyone...all they wanted was that technology for themselves...at any cost...even if it meant one of their own....