Exodus, Part 2 (304)

[GateWorld]

<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s3/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/3041.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s3/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">EXODUS, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 304</FONT>
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The Galactica launches its mission to rescue the inhabitants of New Caprica against all odds, leading to a final showdown between the human survivors and their Cylon oppressors.

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[Sharrpe95]

I have no words to describe how awesome that episode was... this was the first time that television got me teary eyed. I don't think anything can top that episode.

[Cap116]

Best BSG episode, yet!

[Cap116]

Best Episode of BSG, yet! Abosutely Great!

[Selin Peers]

Perhapes quality TV leaves you energized, dazed and pissed off all wrapped up in one episode!

[Major Fischer]

* The Lee/Dee scene was painful to watch, and not really because of her. He's whiny and depressed, first he argues that they have to leave the New Capricans behind and now he feels guilty about it? If I have to have an Adama in charge of the Pegesus can I have Dee in charge since she seems to be the only militarily competent one in that marriage.

* The kiss was incredibly ackward. I litterally had to look away from the screen. Please get divorced so I can like watching these two characters again.

* Poor Tigh, I feel so bad for him in the scene with Anders during the teaser. He knows as well as Sam does what has to be done. Kate Vernon is brilliant, I hate her character but she's a loss to the show. She was also really beautiful crying. I didn't think I'd feel bad when she died.... but I kind of do. She goes down in a long list of women who have found themselves stuck between their loved ones and a war.

* Baltar and Three's conversation about hate and civilizations teaching their children reminds me of the story of the king of Persia who had a servent whisper "remember the Greeks" in his ear every day until he threw himself into battle against them. There are elements of Iraq there, and I wonder what Baltar really thought would happen to him if the cylons left, but it's more other things. I do admire Baltar for saying something that is marginally in humanities best interests and not his own. Beautiful dialogue.

* I love that Baltar considers Roslin and Zarek to be the most dangerous people to be out and free.

* The shots of ships in clouds are really beautiful. This is some of the best battle footage I've ever seen and that buisness of Galacitca falling like a rock was really good. It was a tactic I didn't expect even though I knew Galactica would be in the atmosphere.

* "You sure have a sense of the dramatic." Damn right she does and that's why we love her so. This had a sweet sense of concern on Zarek's part for Laura, even if he did hand a gun to a NCP officer to protect her. But he can be forgiveen his ignorance. I wonder if Jammer may survive the next episode because of this.

* Wow... I can't believe I admire Baltar.

* Well, that was an honorable end for the Battlestar Pegesus. Beautiful CGI.

* Predictably Maya is dead. Too bad she had a job, I liked the character. Three is so adorably ackward with Hera. I think I like that storyline.

* Ah, glad to know one of my theories about Casey was right.

* Mary's eyes are amazing. So much there. Tory's actress is really good too, much better than I had given her credit for. I think she really does love Laura as much as Billy did.

* Yay, gone is the porn 'stach!

[Smashing Young Man]

Best...episode...yet. Hands down. And it obviously had the biggest budget, too.

The heroic death of the Pegasus......the death of Saul's wife...and, best of all, the death of Adama's mustache!

Then, of course, the colonials' escape, as well as Kara's mind getting screwed up even more what with losing the child she never truely had.

My favorite scene was that of the Galactica plunging through the atmosphere, releasing her vipers, and jumping before smashing into the ground. What a sequence! In fact, that is the best sequence involving a spaceship of any kind in any sci-fi movie or tv show ever, in my opinion. Mega-props to the special effects team.

Great stuff!

[titans]

BEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN IN TV - THE GALACTICA ATMOSPHERE JUMP!!

WORST THING EVER TO HAPPEN TO TV - PEGGY GETTING DESTROYED!!

when Tigh killed Ellen I actually thought I was gonna cry (o.k. I really wasn't, but it sounds more dramatic)

[Scooteristi]

So Baltar will now revert to the role he had in TOS, chasing in a Base Ship scheming to rule over the human race. Hmmm...

The whole thing seems rushed, but at least we know where the Pegasus ended up in this series.

[titans]

GREATEST EPISODE IN TV HISTORY!!! FOR ANY SHOW!!

My thoughts on Peggy getting destroyed...NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN YOU RON MOORE!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!

My thoughts on Galactica's atomsphere jump...I had to change my underwear...twice!!

[titans]

GREATEST EPISODE IN TV HISTORY!!! FOR ANY SHOW!!

My thoughts on Peggy getting destroyed...NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN YOU RON MOORE!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!

My thoughts on Galactica's atomsphere jump...I had to change my underwear...twice!!

[ShadowMaat]

OK, that scene with the Galactica burning up in the atmosphere and then jumping out again? BRILLIANT! Fantastic effects shot! Loved it!

And the resolution to Bizarro Starbuck World... Ha. Ockham's Razor in action. :D Although methinks of all the possibilites, that's the one most likely to frack with Kara.

Loved everything about this ep. I'm amazed Tigh killed Ellen. I really thought he wouldn't go through with it or that he'd find a way to smuggle her back or something. Wow.

I wonder what's gonna happen with Hera now?

[Backlash]

If they kill Gaeta next week, I'll be really pissed.

Galactica's entry was awesome. Too bad about the Pegasus.

Now I'm wondering where Baltus' storyline is going.

[random_rodder]

Best. Episode. Ever.

The CGI in this one ep outperformed virtually all others. Even in most movies (Serenity being the exception).

[TheGreatLordGeorge]

Great ep, thoghut it was funny, this episode sets the series back to where the original left off.

Pegasus took on multiple base ships

Baltar is with the cylons

[Selin Peers]

The Galactica Drop is going to probably be one of the best moments of Sci-Fi footage, EVER! It just gripped me and held me, stunning, and mythologically enrapturing! It was like a Phoenix roaring back into the lifes of the people in a stunning, shock and awe kind of way! IT WAS AWESOME!!!

[titans]

At least Peggy went out taking with it THREE Basestars!! She went out like the badass she was!!

[ShadowMaat]

My prediction? Baltar "rescues" the baby and brings her back to Galactica as some kind of peace offering.

If that effects shot of the Galactica doesn't win some awards... heads will roll. :P

[FoolishPleasure]

This show can be incredibly irritating, sometimes boring, but when it "hits", it is the best stuff on TV. Tonight was a hit out of the ballpark. :)

[KillerMercury]

That was a great episode. I loved it when Galactica was just plummeting, and then jumped. That was genius!

I feel kinda bad for Kara not being Kacey's real mom. Sure, we all knew it wasn't possible, but I kinda got attached to the kid too.

And could somebody just please break Lee and Dee up? It's just unnatural.

Overall: 9/10

[titans]

Tell me the Tigh / Ellen sceen wasn't heart wrenching! Even a cynic like me felt so bad for tigh. God that mans been through alot, and to then have to do that...god!

[ShadowMaat]

I didn't feel any real pity for Tigh. But then, he's never been one of my favorite characters and I liked Ellen even less so I wasn't sorry to see her go. Surprised, but not sorry.

I hope Gaeta survives the next couple of eps, at least. He's turning out to be pretty cool. :)

[Vienna]

The opening scene with Lee and dee. Lee has a massive guilt complex for knowingly leaving behind his father and the settlers on NC. Dee doesn't seem to be to terribly uncomfortable with the idea of leaving Galactica and the NC settlers to their fate. Oh gods..that kiss was the most ice cold kiss - EVER. Colliding icebergs generate more heat than this awkward pairing.

Oh gods..Tigh...oh gods...He murdered his wife! I knew she was not leaving NC, but never suspected that it would be in this fashion..never...

Galactica jumping into the atmosphere - BOOM, BABY!!!

Casey isn't Kara's after all. This was too painful for me to watch. My thoughts and words are too jumbled over this at the moment. Poor, poor Kara.

[GobiasSumCoffee]

Awesome awesome episode.

+Saul and Ellen was brilliant. I never reallly like her character but great performance from both of them.

+BSG jumping into New Caprica.

+Kacey not being Starbucks kid. Leoben is the master of mind games

+damn everything was great

cant wait till next week

[titans]

I miss Peggy!!:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[SG1Poz]

What an episode!

If the extreme CGI in this one doesn't get nominated for an award, I'll be surprised.
I was on th edge of my seat when Galactica was dropping. I was like "What the Frak?" I couldn't understand waht they were doing.

Great writing!!

I'm loving this show!

Did anyone catch the secret password for tonight? I missed it:( Thanks.

[Arative]

Damn, what a fine episode.

The scene between Tigh and Ellen was really touching. I honestly didn't think he'd have the balls to kill her. Shows how totally committed he is to the cause or he is just insane. Now I know in season 1, Adama said that Ellen brings out the worst in Tigh, so does everyone think we've seen the end of Saul's drinking days or is he going to go deep into the bottle to drown his sorrows now?

I really have a new found respect for Baltar and I just really think James Callis' acting is excellent. I thought that Gaeta was going to shoot him and Six would save him and somehow convince him he is a cylon.

What a glorious end to the Pegasus, took out 3 basestars, granted two were from being rammed but damn I hate to see her go. The CGI in this episode was excellent. Loved every minute of it. Loved the look on all the cylon's faces when Sharon said "Adama's back" They were like Oh crap.

The only thing I really didn't like about this episode and the new caprica story line in general is that it feels like a series reboot. Back down to one battlestar, Roslin is president again. Somewhat feels like the mini series again.

[Hairy_Little_Muffin]

Yeah by far the best episode ever.

Did anyone catch how at the end they played the same track at the end of the season two episode Home Part II, I think it was called "Reuniting the fleet."

How could that have not been any cooler.

Oh and I just love it when Roslin says, "My ships up there."

[ShadowMaat]

Roslin isn't president, though. Technically Baltar is still president, but in his absence, shouldn't Zarek be in command?

Tigh has gone way, WAY off the deep end and I think we're in for a very scary Dread Pirate Saul in the coming season. Drinking will only be a part of it. The better part, probably.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I loved the father/son moment of the Galactica just before Adama's son left - feel good moments like that just make me go all 'oooouuu wow that's patriotic'

'Put down the gun, and when I find her you can hold her too.' then suddenly BANGBANG in the legs....aww...she tried crawling after her.

GREAT EP.

[Major Fischer]

Roslin isn't president, though. Technically Baltar is still president, but in his absence, shouldn't Zarek be in command?


I'm pretty sure we'll see the technicalities of that worked out next week. I think you are correct, but I think we may also be looking at a radical change in colonial government.

[SG1Poz]

I had no doubt that Saul would carry through with assasinating Ellen.

She caused the deaths of three of their team (Plus!) , hence he knew she was a liablity. Yes it was sad..sad enough to bring a tear but now we know how dedicated Saul is to the cause. I wonder if they'll give him a glass eye?

[ToasterOnFire]

Wow. Just wow. I completely and utterly forgive the fact that Exodus pt 1 was so slow, because pt 2 SO made up for it. Spectacular special effects, fast plot, just completely riveting from start to finish. This is why I love BSG. :)

-Holy crap, Tigh killed his wife. I had a feeling it would happen, but what a sock in the gut when it did. I ended up liking Ellen toward the end - sure she started off as a manipulative twit but in the last few eps she did everything for Tigh. What a sad scene. And did she know she was drinking poison, or is that just my twisted mind? Wow. :(

-I saw the "two battlestars just jumped into orbit" in the trailer last week and was somewhat irked by that spoiler. But it turned out that that scene wasn't what I thought it was going to be - it was a double fake set up by the drones. Nice twist! And I admit I had about 2 seconds there when I thought the Galactica was going to bite it before the Pegasus jumped in.

-Galactica plummeting into the atmosphere to drop off fighters only to jump away at the last second or so? Awesome. Bonus points for having the people on the planet still feel its displacement of air.

-What a bittersweet reunion on Galactica! Starbuck returns only to realize that her child really isn't hers. Tigh returns after killing his wife. Lee and Dee return after losing the Pegasus. Roslin returns only to realize they've lost Hera. I felt joy and pain at the same time.

-On that note, losing Hera seemed too easy. This is the child that everyone was so bent on saving and protecting? I get the feeling that her loss was caused by internal cylon betrayal, but TPTB aren't ready to reveal exactly who did it yet. Still, Tory is on my watch list...

-I'd imagine this is the end of Baltar as part of the fleet. If TPTB stick with TOS canon, he's going to hang out with the cylons (and gain a maniacal laugh :D).

-Looks like the actor who plays Ladon shows up in the next ep too. Yay for him.

-Aw, Zarek was looking out for Roslin! I can see him becoming her VP. On a related note, I'm bummed that we didn't get a Roslin/Adama reunion scene.

-Roslin regaining her presidential chair

-Still not feeling the Lee/Dee love, but I gained some respect for Dee this ep. Lee still bugs me.

-End of the Adamastache! Hurray! :D


-My major irk: what happened to Sharon? After the revelation that her child is still alive, we only get to see her at the very end back on Galactica? Bummer.


Any idea why skiffy is rerunning this ep back to back?

[titans]

Poor Tigh. God he was such a broken shell of himself at the end.

What great writing and acting.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm pretty sure we'll see the technicalities of that worked out next week. I think you are correct, but I think we may also be looking at a radical change in colonial government.

Yeah, I'll be interested to see how it gets handled. Can I say that I find Roslin's blithe reassumption (BIG assumption) of command to be a little... unsettling? I know she's supposed to be one of the good ones, but she's been making me uneasy since S2.

[Arative]

Roslin isn't president, though. Technically Baltar is still president, but in his absence, shouldn't Zarek be in command?

Tigh has gone way, WAY off the deep end and I think we're in for a very scary Dread Pirate Saul in the coming season. Drinking will only be a part of it. The better part, probably.

But she is back on her ship! And Zarek didn't seem to mind.

Oh I also loved the fact that Adama accepted death and the Pegasus came in, I was like hell yeah! I really think Pegasus went before her time but the problem was everytime Pegasus went up aganist a basestar, she kicked major ass, she was almost too strong.

[Macphisto]

Wow. That was one of the greatest hours of television I have ever seen; maybe the best.

-I didn't like Ellen and I've never been overly fond of Saul, but that was heartbreaking. Ellen really did love him and really wasn't trying to hurt anyone. Saul clearly loved her too.

-Galactica descending was amazing. Better than most of what you see in the movies.

-Pegasus' sacrifice was also fantastic. I wish they could have kept the ship but it was necessary to save lives. I think they took out at least three Base Stars. The Cylons will not soon forget Pegasus.

-Poor Starbuck and what a wicked Cylon Leoben is. Wow.

-Baltar is now with the Cylons and yet I don't think his role is anything like what it was in the original. Should be interesting.

-Hera is now in the Cylons' hands. Will the sides fight over the baby or will the humans just hope they can find Earth?

-Will the Cylons continue to pursue the humans or will they leave them be for a while?

[ShadowMaat]

But she is back on her ship! And Zarek didn't seem to mind.
Yeah, but there are still laws to deal with. In order for her to assume command again they're gonna have to rewrite some pretty major edicts regarding colonial government.

[CaraRose]

Just my general thoughts:

1. This ep made up for how much Exodus P1 sucked.

2. I second all motions that galactica falling through the atmosphere kicked @$$.

3. Poor Kara. That was just plain cruel. She's going to be frakked up more than ever. I wonder if Leoben intends to continue to try and get his hands on her though? Crazy @$$ weasel, I just don't see him disapearing.

4. Poor Tigh. Never thought I'd say that, but poor Tigh. I felt bad for him.

5. Go Lee.

6. Hera's with the Cylons now. Hrm...

7. So, what IS happening with Starbuck's missing ovaries, then?

8. Interesting preview. It seems that some of the New Caprica resistance are going to be forming their own little court to judge and execute collaborators. Doesn't look like its approved by Rosalin or Adama, and their acting covertly. I don't believe Gaita's gonna buy it though.

9. For a bit of speculation and analysis here--- The cylons are just beginning to understand love. Leoben = Posessive/obsessive love; Caprica 6 = somewhat more evolved and compassionate love but still egoistic in its nature; Sharon = true love, proved by her willingness to sacrifice for her love for Helo.

The fact that we see cylons moving though more dissent among themselves is improtant. Without outside influences, they were uniform. The fact that they don't have names, but used model numbers, indicates to me that some level of individuality was missing. Before, all 6's were like each other enough that they WERE, in some odd way, each other, even with seperate programs and thoughts. They started from the same base programming and personality.

Being exposed to human egoism, human emotion, and seperated from the cylon society starts to change cylon models into individuals. Those individuals come back and further begin to change the others because they now differ in thought from the consensus. The society began as highly altruistic, and I think is shifting, moderately, and the individual is beginning to stand out more and care about their own concerns over that of their societies.

Okay, enough babbling.

[Backlash]

I don't think the people of the fleet will have a hard time accepting Roslin as pres, since the main reason they voted for Baltar was settlement on NC. Look how that turned out.

[Arative]

Yeah, but there are still laws to deal with. In order for her to assume command again they're gonna have to rewrite some pretty major edicts regarding colonial government.

I bet she's declared President for life or something. Or we'll get at the beginning of next episode, the previously on and then get a line 4 months later and everything is magically resolved.

But yeah I agree they need to resolve it with out resolving it stupidly. RDM though doesn't really treat the audience like a bunch of idiots so we should get a good explanation

[titans]

R.I.P. Pegasus...you will be missed

R.I.P. Ellen Tigh...you won't be missed so much.

R.I.P. the Adamastache...You MOST CERTAINLY will be missed.

[Vienna]

Just my general thoughts:

1. This ep made up for how much Exodus P1 sucked.

2. I second all motions that galactica falling through the atmosphere kicked @$$.

3. Poor Kara. That was just plain cruel. She's going to be frakked up more than ever. I wonder if Leoben intends to continue to try and get his hands on her though? Crazy @$$ weasel, I just don't see him disapearing.

4. Poor Tigh. Never thought I'd say that, but poor Tigh. I felt bad for him.

5. Go Lee.

6. Hera's with the Cylons now. Hrm...

7. So, what IS happening with Starbuck's missing ovaries, then?

8. Interesting preview. It seems that some of the New Caprica resistance are going to be forming their own little court to judge and execute collaborators. Doesn't look like its approved by Rosalin or Adama, and their acting covertly. I don't believe Gaita's gonna buy it though.

9. For a bit of speculation and analysis here--- The cylons are just beginning to understand love. Leoben = Posessive/obsessive love; Caprica 6 = somewhat more evolved and compassionate love but still egoistic in its nature; Sharon = true love, proved by her willingness to sacrifice for her love for Helo.

The fact that we see cylons moving though more dissent among themselves is improtant. Without outside influences, they were uniform. The fact that they don't have names, but used model numbers, indicates to me that some level of individuality was missing. Before, all 6's were like each other enough that they WERE, in some odd way, each other, even with seperate programs and thoughts. They started from the same base programming and personality.

Being exposed to human egoism, human emotion, and seperated from the cylon society starts to change cylon models into individuals. Those individuals come back and further begin to change the others because they now differ in thought from the consensus. The society began as highly altruistic, and I think is shifting, moderately, and the individual is beginning to stand out more and care about their own concerns over that of their societies.

Okay, enough babbling.

You are quite right about the preview..I'm not happy that Kara, Sam, Tyrol and Tigh are involved in this. Also, it seems that Kara and Tigh are not getting any help coping with their respective tragedies.

[ToasterOnFire]

The command structure questions are interesting - strictly speaking Zarek should be the new president since Baltar isn't around anymore. But Zarek could always step down for Roslin. (Would he though, or would he want a fresh election to make sure the people's voices are heard? And would he run against her?)

Heh, on another forum someone said Roslin's new campaign slogan should be "Remember what happened last time you voted against me?" She'd win for sure. :D

[Vash]

R.I.P Pegasus, may another Battlestar like you appear.

Wow, what a great episode!

[Vyse]

Incredible episode. Will miss the Pegasus but it does make the story work better. Absolutely heart-wrenching when Saul had to kill his wife, the poor guy. This show just gets better and better, it may even turn out to be better than Babylon 5 eventually!

[Arative]

This is bugging me and it is the second time I've heard it but the flute playing when Adama shaves, I swear it comes right out of the Lord of the rings trilogy. Anyone else think this or I'm just losing my mind? Which of course is a strong possibilty.

[Vyse]

Just loved how the Pegasus rammed into the Basestar and then it's launch bay crashing into a second one while you saw it's name. "The Beast" fought hard till the bitter end.

[Arative]

Just loved how the Pegasus rammed into the Basestar and then it's launch bay crashing into a second one while you saw it's name. "The Beast" fought hard till the bitter end.

Best way ever to the end of a great ship. For about 10 seconds after Pegasus rammed into the first basestar I thought she was just going to keep on going and they would be able to claim her later.

[CKO]

damn that was one good ep, i actaully did feel bad for Tigh for having to kill his wife.. and what a bitter sweet reunion on the galactica....... someone please split lee/dee up..... that kiss was gag worthy.......... and talk bout toture for Kara..

[daniel9]

-I'd imagine this is the end of Baltar as part of the fleet. If TPTB stick with TOS canon, he's going to hang out with the cylons (and gain a maniacal laugh :D).

id unno i cant really see him turning into the baltar in the tos. i mean he was pure evil. he took orders from lucifer. he was the cylon leader. he didnt have a speck of "love" in him for anyone. hejust about tricked the humans every single possible way they can be tricked. this baltar of course has love in him. supposedly takes commands from God. actually has a conscience and actually cares for both humans and cylons to a point. probably will never be called imperius leader by the cylons lol. as for the maniacal laugh hm who knows he might get that

[HarshCritic]

Incredible episode. Will miss the Pegasus but it does make the story work better. Absolutely heart-wrenching when Saul had to kill his wife, the poor guy. This show just gets better and better, it may even turn out to be better than Babylon 5 eventually!


That was the best part of the ep. The rest was pretty mch expected. You knew something tragic was going to happen, so the Pegasus, instead of Adama , didn't survive. Now they're back on BSG. I'm happy things are the way they should be, but this ep wasn't just so, so for me.

[titans]

Man what an episode. I had to watch it twice to calm down. I was literally jumping up & down on my couch when Galactica was dropping into the atmosphere (I'm hyper) My thoughts (which take precident over everyone elses thougts)...

1. How heart wrenching was it when Tigh killed Ellen. God He's a good actor. Sad, sad sceen, but done so well.

2. The Galactica Atmosphere jump=BRILLIANT! What a great scene, effects, execution! Has to be the greatest scene of the series!

3. Pegasus. Man I HATED seeing The Beast bite the dust. I don't see why the show can't have two Battlestars. But if she had to go (and man I wish she didn't) taking out THREE Basestars is the way to do it! Pegasus you will be missed!

4. And to the greatest loss of them all...The Adamastache. You Adamastache will truely be missed.

I think this was CLEARLY the best episode of the series. From top to bottom it was non stop perfection. Ron Moore you are a genius!

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

I hereby posthumously rechristen the Pegasus as the Battlestar Thunderchild.

[ShadowMaat]

This is bugging me and it is the second time I've heard it but the flute playing when Adama shaves, I swear it comes right out of the Lord of the rings trilogy. Anyone else think this or I'm just losing my mind? Which of course is a strong possibilty.

The flute music is one of the recurring themes in the show. I know it's used in the song "One Good Lighter" (a big Adama/Lee scene), but it's used in other pieces as well, which is where I think the shaving bit is from.

I have the urge to go listen to my S1 CD again...

[Major Fischer]

The flute music is one of the recurring themes in the show. I know it's used in the song "One Good Lighter" (a big Adama/Lee scene), but it's used in other pieces as well, which is where I think the shaving bit is from.

I have the urge to go listen to my S1 CD again...

It's also used in the "I'm bringing the family back togeather." scene from Home Part 1. It's their triumphant music. I think the melody is an old celtic toon, and when it has words (in Hand of God)... I'm pretty sure they are in chinese--but that I can't be sure of.

[Macharius0]

OMG, please tell me someone will be posting hi res caps of the battle, the Galactica dropping like a hot rock, or the end of the Pegasus! I'd love to have those as my desktop!!!

Bill Adama pulled off the most outside-the-box plan I've ever seen, I cheered when Galactica jumped away within spitting distance of the ground. Did not see that coming...and loved it, I really thought she was going to hit!!! I can just see Starbuck's toes curling with glee had she seen when Adama pulled that off.

On the flip side, that was certainly a heroic end to the Pegasus, but I have to question Lee's thinking. The fleet's now lost its best ship, hands down. I'd rather see the Galactica get destroyed, then have them rename the Pegasus in her honor.

Yes, it was a ballsy plan, and granted it saved the day, but what now? The fleet's stuck with the Galactica. It's got WAY weaker guns, practically no computers or advanced tech, no flight simulators, no facilities for building new Vipers/Raptors, and only one functional launch bay.

On top of that, she needs twice the manpower just to crew, was falling apart from lack of maintenence, and now she took all that damage from Adama's little yo-yo maneuver AND playing bloody knuckles with four baseships.

I'm really glad the Galactica survived, don't get me wrong. I just hope that before Lee jumped in to save his dad that he stripped the Pegasus down to the hull plating. If not, I'm pretty sure the loss of all those supplies and technology is going to come back and bite the fleet in the ass before long.

All that aside though, BEST EPISODE EVER!!! I'd like to give props and a shout out to Richard Gibbs and Bear McCreary for their phenomonal musical score.

[ShadowMaat]

It does sound Celtic. Or possibly Eastern. I think the words to the opening theme song are... Hindi? Or something in that general category. Dunno if that language is recurring or if they use a mix.

I think there's an S2 disc, I should buy it...

[Arative]

It's also used in the "I'm bringing the family back togeather." scene from Home Part 1. It's their triumphant music. I think the melody is an old celtic toon, and when it has words (in Hand of God)... I'm pretty sure they are in chinese--but that I can't be sure of.

Maybe that is where I am remembering it from, I did just recently rewatch season one and I'm about a 3rd of the way through season 2 again. (got a big flatscreen)

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe that is where I am remembering it from, I did just recently rewatch season one and I'm about a 3rd of the way through season 2 again. (got a big flatscreen)

It does at times sound LOTR-ish, but then, LOTR sounds a bit Celtic, too. :)

As for the Adamastache... I was actually getting used to it. Now I'm gonna have to adapt all over again. :P

[Major Fischer]

I think there's an S2 disc, I should buy it...

There is a season 2 disc, it's what's in my car cd player right now. If it means much I think its better than the season 1 disc... and the season 1 disc is also among the CDs in my car right now :)

[Chig]

Damn.
Too bad nothing much happened except the moustache scene tonight....
They need to pick up the pace a bit.
Oh well, I really did not need to sleep tonight anyway.

[ShadowMaat]

Damn.
Too bad nothing much happened except the moustache scene tonight....
They need to pick up the pace a bit.
Oh well, I really did not need to sleep tonight anyway.

LOL! Really. If they go any slower even the snail races are gonna outpace them. ;)

[xSEED]

great ep so far. dvr'd it watching now. did anders kill ellen?

[Chig]

Here's to adranaline!

I usually record the episodes to share with my sister across town. I had to call her and torment her by not telling her why this episode blew me away.
So wrong, but I had to let all this nervous energy out some way. Maybe I will make her wait a while before I share this episode with her.

[THSEX1138]

My second best episode of all time!! (The Mini Series can never be topped ) and that's saying a lot ! As for the Pegasus I have no words..sniff sniff. I felt so bad for Kara Thrace. The emotions expressed on the hanger deck by Katee Sackhoff has to be one of her greatest acting scenes yet. 10 out of a possible 10. I got a snot bubble in my nose when Adama knew it was over and a tear was about to drop but when the Pegasus showed up I yelled to the top of my lungs!!! So very emotional... I have to admit waiting for season 3 seemed like an unreasonably long time but episodes like this were well worth it. They put a lot of thought and heart into this one,

[Callsign:Spooky]

I don't think anything can top that episode.



Wait.

[daniel9]

for????? lol

[Callsign:Spooky]

I just about shat myself when the Peg took out not one but TWO!!!11!!oneoneone Basestars. If you gotta go do as much damage as possible along the way! :cool: :D

[chris777]

On the flip side, that was certainly a heroic end to the Pegasus, but I have to question Lee's thinking. The fleet's now lost its best ship, hands down. I'd rather see the Galactica get destroyed, then have them rename the Pegasus in her honor.

Yes, it was a ballsy plan, and granted it saved the day, but what now? The fleet's stuck with the Galactica. It's got WAY weaker guns, practically no computers or advanced tech, no flight simulators, no facilities for building new Vipers/Raptors, and only one functional launch bay.

On top of that, she needs twice the manpower just to crew, was falling apart from lack of maintenence, and now she took all that damage from Adama's little yo-yo maneuver AND playing bloody knuckles with four baseships.

I'm really glad the Galactica survived, don't get me wrong. I just hope that before Lee jumped in to save his dad that he stripped the Pegasus down to the hull plating. If not, I'm pretty sure the loss of all those supplies and technology is going to come back and bite the fleet in the ass before long.

well I had pretty much thought the same thing, that the pegasus would get a rebadge.(i guess it was more wishful thinking since we all knew one of the battlestars would buy the farm as a diversion so the colonist could get away) My guess is the bridge set on galactica, is far cooler than the one for pegasus. so they nixed it, Plus the galactica looks far easier (ie cheaper) to render in cgi.

Hopefully saul will keep the boss beard, and get a cool eyepatch to match.
I still get the ahab vibe from him.
And as for ellen that was a mercy killing, he put her down soft and sweet , much nicer than anders, or anyone else would have done, thats why he did it, he knew they wouldnt be so kind.

Now after such a big off ramp they rebooted the series to the status quo

[Vyse]

What a mind-warp with Starbuck also! Seeing at the end that the kid was someone else's, boy is she going to go crazy after all that?!

[titans]

I just about shat myself when the Peg took out not one but TWO!!!11!!oneoneone Basestars. If you gotta go do as much damage as possible along the way! :cool: :D


THREE!! She took out THREE Basestars!

[Major Fischer]

Shadow, the podcast illuminates some of your concerns about Laura just sort of assuming the presidency/leadership role without being the president yet.

RDM says that the bit with Tory and Roslin talking about Hera was originally the ending of an entire subplot in Collaborators, which they decided to truncate and move for the emotional value. I suspect that it was filmed to be after the political resolution that will take place in that episode.

Note that Roslin's changed her clothes when she really has no reason to have a change of clothes on Colonial One.

[Callsign:Spooky]

On the flip side, that was certainly a heroic end to the Pegasus, but I have to question Lee's thinking. The fleet's now lost its best ship, hands down. I'd rather see the Galactica get destroyed, then have them rename the Pegasus in her honor.

Yes, it was a ballsy plan, and granted it saved the day, but what now? The fleet's stuck with the Galactica. It's got WAY weaker guns, practically no computers or advanced tech, no flight simulators, no facilities for building new Vipers/Raptors, and only one functional launch bay.

On top of that, she needs twice the manpower just to crew, was falling apart from lack of maintenance, and now she took all that damage from Adama's little yo-yo maneuver AND playing bloody knuckles with four baseships.

I'm really glad the Galactica survived, don't get me wrong. I just hope that before Lee jumped in to save his dad that he stripped the Pegasus down to the hull plating. If not, I'm pretty sure the loss of all those supplies and technology is going to come back and bite the fleet in the ass before long.

All that aside though, BEST EPISODE EVER!!! I'd like to give props and a shout out to Richard Gibbs and Bear McCreary for their phenomonal musical score.


Well a lot of what you are stating is assumed. We have no idea how bad she was falling apart once the Pegasus came on the scene. The Pegasus could very well have supplemented repairs with goods and parts from her own inventory. We also know that the Galactica can go toe to toe with a Basestar and survive. So realisticly its like trading in a 2004 for a 2006 model car. You may get more bells and whistles but it still gets you from A to B. Newer does not always equal better.
At the end of the day it would have been better not to loose either but since it was a choice between loosing one or both IMHO I think Lee made the right call. Esp since they took out, at minimum, 3 basestars doing it.

PS- Where has it ever been mentioned that the Pegasus has its own facilities for producing more ships? :confused:

[Smashing Young Man]

I just want to say how wonderfully done the scene was where the camera was pulling back from Galactica as she was surrounded by and being pounded on by the base ships—almost as if to give the viewers a wide shot of her inevitable destruction—only to bring the Pegasus into frame at JUST the moment you think Galactica was going to explode into a million pieces.

I mean...I knew the Pegasus was going to show up—last week's preview gave that much away—but it was so masterfully done that that little spoiler was driven straight from my mind, and I really believed for a moment that the Galactica was doomed.

What a great way to bring us back to the Battlestar Galactica I knew and loved from the first two seasons. I really wasn't happy with the thought that the majority of this season was going to be based on New Caprica, with the occasional bit of plotting and drama happening on the two battlestars.

Frankly, I'm glad the Pegasus is gone as well. Having just the one combat ship for protection really does give the show a better sense of humanity skirting the ragged edge of extinction.

I have to agree with some of the posters above: Roslin's flopping down in the President's chair in "her" ship seemed more than a little presumptuous. Even sitting aside Zarek, I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be others in the fleet who have political aspirations, and maybe even be well-qualified for the job. Given what the people have been through, one would think the circumstances would have done much to bring forth at least a few natural born leaders.

Ah well...we'll see what the rest of the season brings. I sure hope they didn't blow their wad early. This one is going to be hard top!

[Callsign:Spooky]

THREE!! She took out THREE Basestars!


Not in her death throws.

One when she entered the fray.
One when she went head long into that SoaB.
And one where a piece of her hull tumbled into the basestar.


Did I miss one?

EDIT: Nope...Two. One of the pods tumbled into the other one. :D

[Legionnaire]

Hmmmmmm yes so certainly an episode for the books.

RIP Ellen, gonna miss hating you, unless you turn out to be a cylon, which would be quite interesting.

As stated many times, great CGI, some of the best I've seen, the Galactica jump was gorgeous to watch and the maneuvers were awesome, I especially like Hotdog's line there as he is about to be launched.

Call me stupid but I didn't beleive the cylons would get Hera, I thought for sure she'd be back on the fleet and Sharon would find out about it, but I guess not, now it will be interesting to see what this baby will do for the Cylons, what will happen because they have her.

I'm glad to see the moustache go, I always felt it just didn't fit right in this context.

I'm also glad that there is just one Battlestar now, as I liked things before there were two ships and everyone got split up, hopefully Lee and Starbuck will both be back in the cockpit kicking butt again like the good ole days.

And speaking of Lee Adama, perhaps some of you are in denial or something, but what I just saw was him saving his old man's butt, many other peoples lives, and most importantly, Galactica. Pegasus didnt save them, Lee Adama saved them, and he did it in the utmost glory, sacrificing his own ship, risking the lives of his crew and his wife, and making an even riskier move than Bill Adama, because if Lee had never showed up, at least there would still be one Battlestar with the civilian fleet, but with Lee leaving them to fight, he risked losing both Battlestars and leaving the civilian fleet almost completely defenseless (yea Peggy's vipers stayed back but if both Battlestars were destroyed, theres only so much Vipers can do without a base) and therefor the destruction of humanity.

[Lady Snow]

And speaking of Lee Adama, perhaps some of you are in denial or something, but what I just saw was him saving his old man's butt, many other peoples lives, and most importantly, Galactica. Pegasus didnt save them, Lee Adama saved them, and he did it in the utmost glory, sacrificing his own ship, risking the lives of his crew and his wife, and making an even riskier move than Bill Adama, because if Lee had never showed up, at least there would still be one Battlestar with the civilian fleet, but with Lee leaving them to fight, he risked losing both Battlestars and leaving the civilian fleet almost completely defenseless (yea Peggy's vipers stayed back but if both Battlestars were destroyed, theres only so much Vipers can do without a base) and therefor the destruction of humanity.

Word. This was Lee deciding something on his own - and something that had many many positive ramifications. It could have led to disaster, yes, but it was taking the risk that counted... a risk that the Old Man would have taken.


Anyhow, this episode blew my mind. I, for one, am immensely thankful Skiffy's showing it again, as I don't see it getting old anytime soon. It was amazingly intense and had me clutching a pillow for the whole frakking thing. :)

One last question: do you think they could fit a few more emotions into an hour of television? ;)

[alaskannut]

Best. Hour. Of television. EVER!!!! Holy fracking mother of god that was incredible...I'm going to be rewatching that episode every day for the next month!

[akbar56]

Am I the only one who noticed that Ellen actually killed herself? Sure Tigh brought over the poison but she asked for the cup. She knew she was going to die and he gave her the honor of doing it herself (plus I dont think he had the balls to do it. Sure he can send anyone else to die but his own woman?)

[Xenocide]

So realisticly its like trading in a 2004 for a 2006 model car. You may get more bells and whistles but it still gets you from A to B. Newer does not always equal better.

More like a 1950 for a 2006 car, because remember at the beginning of the miniseries, the Galactica was being decommisioned. And its also said that its the last of its kind in existence and is 50 years old.

[wontgetfooledagain]

I hate that Pegasus had to die, but I think it was for the good of the show. Things (storywise) were getting a little spread out between the two ships, I think.

[kharn the betrayer]

this was wow...

+Ellen and Tigh was heart wenching for me despite the fact I REALY REALY hated Ellen but even I felt sad at that scene

+Adama got rid of that stupid mustache

+Galactica plummeting through the atmoshphere launching vipers

+Pegasus destroying 3 base stars in a very badass fasion

-Pegasus got destroyed...however the beast shall live in the fact its last moments had it destroy 3 basestars >:D

-Dee and lee scene at the start though sim starting to like Dee again so please PLEASE get them out of that stupid relationship

[LiquidBlue]

Good Episode.

However, I am bothered by Laura's presumption. Not only should Zarek legally succeed Baltar (Just as Laura became president in the mini-series), but he also has the credibility to lead the fleet. Who did the Cylons immediately arrest and keep in confinement during the entire occupation? Laura? No, Zarek.

[Legionnaire]

Good Episode.

However, I am bothered by Laura's presumption. Not only should Zarek legally succeed Baltar (Just as Laura became president in the mini-series), but he also has the credibility to lead the fleet. Who did the Cylons immediately arrest and keep in confinement during the entire occupation? Laura? No, Zarek.

You know what, that is a good point and I admit that I was a little bit bothered by this too, as she wasnt elected again so she shouldn't just be president. Give Zarek a chance :)

[Orion's Star]

Good Episode.

However, I am bothered by Laura's presumption. Not only should Zarek legally succeed Baltar (Just as Laura became president in the mini-series), but he also has the credibility to lead the fleet. Who did the Cylons immediately arrest and keep in confinement during the entire occupation? Laura? No, Zarek.

I am not sure that Laura is presuming anything. I think it is forgotten that the Colonial One is also Laura's home, that's where she has always lived. Yes she has been the president while she's lived there, but it's still her home. Just because she sits in the chair, doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I think considering how the relationship between Zarek and Roslin has developed so far this season, that things may work out toward some kind of power sharing between the two.

Or who knows, maybe Adama will just get fed up, say frak it, and TELL the fleet that Roslin is in charge. Cause he feels like it. :P

[White Knight]

Ho. Ly. FRAK! That was hands down the best episode of the series yet. The action, the thrills, the suspense, the drama, the tension, the emotion... I can barely describe how I'm feeling. Galactica's free-fall had be cheering and on the edge of my seat, Ellen's death had me almost to tears (which is really saying something - imagine of Adama or Roslin died?) and I especially loved the final scene of Adama shaving his moustache: it was so symbolic, so well done, and yet so simple.

That, of course, brings questions about the future: and what a future they've set up. The gang's all together *physically*, but what about emotionally, spiritually, politically, economically? What's gonna happen to the Pegasus crew? The NCP? Baltar? The old veterans who've not (apparently) been replaced? The new families that've formed on the surface? What're Apollo, D, Helo, Sharon, Starbuck and the Chief gonna do? So many questions, so few episodes...


However, I am bothered by Laura's presumption. Not only should Zarek legally succeed Baltar (Just as Laura became president in the mini-series), but he also has the credibility to lead the fleet. Who did the Cylons immediately arrest and keep in confinement during the entire occupation? Laura? No, Zarek.
I suspect this will be something that'll be explored in the next few episodes. BSG has a pretty good track record of not just taking something as granted - remember after the S2 premire, how long it took to get everything settled again? My money is that either Zarek will give up position or there'll be another election or - Gods forbid - Zarek will take office.

Mind you, if Adama got on the wireless and asked if anyone in the fleet had objections to Roslin becoming President again, after what happened last time, is there really anyone in their right mind who's object?

[Back40]

It's also used in the "I'm bringing the family back togeather." scene from Home Part 1. It's their triumphant music. I think the melody is an old celtic toon, and when it has words (in Hand of God)... I'm pretty sure they are in chinese--but that I can't be sure of.

Was first used in "The Hand of God" epi from season 1 where Lee took out the Cylon refinery singlehandedly - track with words in Irish Gaelic ("Wander My Friends") when Lee returns to the Galactica triumphant after completing the mission and the scene between Lee and his dad about the lighter ("A Good Lighter") before the mission. Reprised as "Reuniting the Fleet" in season 2 "Home Part 1". Definitely Celtic, they use either Irish flute or uileann pipes for lead instrument depending on the reprisal.

Can you tell I play both the CDs end to end on a regular basis? :)

Oh, and I'm a nut job for Celtic music too.....

[Major Fischer]

I'm still not sure there is a presumption there. Laura didn't say she was in charge of the fleet or that she was the president. Yes, she sat in a chair, but there were dozens of other refugees in the room and none of them had sat in the chair, one presumes that they know she's around and the people actually there saved it for her ;)

The conversation with Tory is just about Maya and Hera, it's not about fleet buisness. According to the episode's podcast the material from the last scene with Laura and Tory was in fact lifted from the end of Collaborators because they removed an entire plot from that episode about the search for Hera within the fleet. It does make Roslin look like she's president, but when they filmed that they had presumably dealt with the political situation.

Given that Zarek is the president at this point, and he knew she was going to Colonial One, is it really our place to say she was wrong to do that. Right now Colonial One is just a colonial heavy transport and it apparently has hundreds of people on it that are just there for the ride. Presumably whichever ship Zarek ended up on is "Colonial One" right now because that is a designation that goes with whatever ship the president is on.

Someone up thread said that there have to be other people in the fleet with political asperations or "natural leaders" would stand up. It's my contention that Laura Roslin is a natural leader. She can't help that, and I suspect that at this point she's going to be an overwelmingly popular leader. Something like 17,000 people voted for her to start with, I suspect as morbid as this sounds, those 2,000 civilians that stayed on ships and didn't land on New Caprica and thus had a greater likelyhood to live through the experiance were Roslin' supporters and now you pile in the fact that A) she was proven right. B) many parents know her personally because she's taken care of their kids so she's no longer an evil meglomaniac C) she is a popular reisistence figure (Baltar says so in this episode).

Now Zarek is as well... but that was already a card he had in his hands from pre-cylon attack. Zarek is a smart political animal (and obviously right now rather likes Roslin) so I doubt he'd try and get in the way of a popular upswing in support for Roslin.

[Excali5033]

The song is called "Wander My Friends" and it's in Gaelic. It started off in "The Hand of God" as sort of the Adama family song but has kind of turned into the Colonial victory theme.

I have mixed feelings about Ellen's death. I'll have to watch it again because I didn't see it coming (I usually catch these things, I must be getting senile) until she dropped the cup.

Galactica dropping into the atmosphere was mind blowing. I saw it jump into the sky and thought How on Earth can she fly? Oh...she...can't! Truly one of the most amazing FX shots in television history.

I like Zarek the lovable scoundrel, but I don't know if I like the Roslin/Zarek crimefighting duo. I'm hoping it's an enemy of my enemy scenario.

Pegasus had to go, frankly. She was bad*** and I loved every second she was out there kicking toaster butt, but she's too powerful. At least she didn't go out like a b*tch. And splitting up the military characters between the two was getting to be a strain.

Baltar is FAR too shades of gray to ever be like the old Count (thank goodness).

Poor Saul and Kara... :( But I cheered when she stabbed that motherfraker in the guts!

Just when I was getting USED to the 'stache...ah well.

Why must Fridays be seven days apart? *shakes fist*

[hU$h3rN7242c]

At least Peggy went out taking with it THREE Basestars!! She went out like the badass she was!!

This episode was unbelievable. All I can say is, who else other than Admiral Adama would have the brass ballz the size of grapefruits to do an in atmosphere jump, launch vipers and then jump out before they crash on the surface. That take more guts than a blind jump, like Cain did.

And yeah Lee was whinning about staying behind, but when you talk about saving humanity and you have to sit back while the "old man" goes to save everyone, its gonna eat on you. And to think, he ordered the Pegasus in to take the brunt of the belting from the base ships. But oh yeah, the Beast took out three frackin basestars. To bad she's gone.

But, I can help but wonder, what's going on in Tigh's head when they're all cheering Adama and Tigh is wondering off in shock at the prices he paid to free everyone, including killing his own wife. Damn, that's got to hurt.

All in all, kudos to RDM and crew. Great episode, and great storytelling.

And yes, the Dee/Lee thing was just awkward. its like going to a party seeing the couple that comes off as perfect for each other and you want to go wretch in the jungle juice. :mckay:

[roleplayer]

Problem I have with the episode and rest of the series now is the massive character retcon.

So what is Lee Commander of now? His dressingroom? Or will he be stripped of his rank and we just 'reset' to a pre-determined "Lee is the KAG, better luck next time" And if so what avout everyone else who got promoted, like the new XOs of Pegasus and Galactica respectively :P

It was a good episode for me until Pegasus got destroyed, blowing it up was a bad move, IMO.

(Also, everyone seems so happy Peg killed 3 basestars, keeping in mind the cylons have planets where they can just build more and they're fully automated basically computer ships, so 3 - 1 is a poor ratio for the Galactica fleet seeing as they can never replace the pegasus, and in a few months the cyclons will just build more base stars :P)

[Back40]

Am I right in guessing that the Pegasus didn't jump away with the Galactica in order to continue to draw the fire of the basestars so that the last of the Colonial ships could escape from NC?

[shockwave]

a great episode, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time

too bad the Pegasus is gone, but it went out in a great way

so the cylons have hera now heh, when are sharon and helo gonna find out?

good to see Simon have some more scenes, but cavil was missing this time

[foxhound22]

Unbelievable episode!

Seriously the best episode to date. As far as Lee is concerned, I would assume that he would be reduced in rank to Major and assume the duties of the CAG. Or maybe he becomes the ship's XO, but he doesn't seem to have the mean streak needed to be the CO's enforcer.

Really looking forward to seeing where the series goes from here. I just hope that poor Gaeta comes through this.

[Freek]

Very Very good!

[Agent_Dark]

Given that Zarek is the president at this point, and he knew she was going to Colonial One, is it really our place to say she was wrong to do that. Right now Colonial One is just a colonial heavy transport and it apparently has hundreds of people on it that are just there for the ride. Presumably whichever ship Zarek ended up on is "Colonial One" right now because that is a designation that goes with whatever ship the president is on.

Someone up thread said that there have to be other people in the fleet with political asperations or "natural leaders" would stand up. It's my contention that Laura Roslin is a natural leader. She can't help that, and I suspect that at this point she's going to be an overwelmingly popular leader. Something like 17,000 people voted for her to start with, I suspect as morbid as this sounds, those 2,000 civilians that stayed on ships and didn't land on New Caprica and thus had a greater likelyhood to live through the experiance were Roslin' supporters and now you pile in the fact that A) she was proven right. B) many parents know her personally because she's taken care of their kids so she's no longer an evil meglomaniac C) she is a popular reisistence figure (Baltar says so in this episode).

Now Zarek is as well... but that was already a card he had in his hands from pre-cylon attack. Zarek is a smart political animal (and obviously right now rather likes Roslin) so I doubt he'd try and get in the way of a popular upswing in support for Roslin.

Are we even sure that Zarek still had any position in the New Caprica government? After all he was in a cylon detention cell...

[DarkOne]

They will most likely call for new elections. Adama should run and would be elected at this point and have Rosilin as his Vice President who will handle the day to day civilian stuff. Just a thought.

[ShadowMaat]

Gods, I hope not. I'm sick of elections. Find a loophole to make her president again WITHOUT elections if you have to, but please spare us more of the political grandstanding.

[pizzadude]

I am not sure that Laura is presuming anything. I think it is forgotten that the Colonial One is also Laura's home, that's where she has always lived. Yes she has been the president while she's lived there, but it's still her home. Just because she sits in the chair, doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I think considering how the relationship between Zarek and Roslin has developed so far this season, that things may work out toward some kind of power sharing between the two.

Or who knows, maybe Adama will just get fed up, say frak it, and TELL the fleet that Roslin is in charge. Cause he feels like it. :P

I'm fairly sure that whichever ship the president (whoever that may be) is on will be called Colonial One.

[White Knight]

Zarek and the political situation: he's not gonna try and sieze power 'cause he's not stupid. As soon as someone in the fleet mentions "government" everyone's gonna think of the election: they voted in Baltar, and look what happened. If anyone other than Roslin took the Presidency there'd be a full-scale riot amongst the fleet.

[AlphaBlu]

That. Was. Amazing.

Best ep they've done.

BYE

[Thermonuclearboy]

As to the political situation, I think it's highly likely that Baltar's conduct will lead to a vote of no-confidence, or impeachment, or however the Colonies did it. If Zarek didn't press the issue, that could lead to a new election, which Roslyn would probably win unapposed.

This is the first time I ever felt anything other than utter contempt for Saul Tigh. When he said to Adama, "We didn't save everyone," did anyone else get the sense he wasn't just talking about his wife? He finally realizes what a monster he has become.

I have a bad feeling Gaeta's going down. I mean, it would be just the tragic twist BSG would throw at us. And when Dee is finally revealed as a Cylon sleeper agent, I'll be very happy indeed.

[titans]

I have a bad feeling Gaeta's going down. I mean, it would be just the tragic twist BSG would throw at us.

All Gaeta has to do is say "umm guys I was the one who was feeding you secrets..ya know our system...the one with the dog bowl? That was all me!" and bang problem solved. Besides they kill Gaeta who will be the ambiguously gay charachter on the show??

[wontgetfooledagain]

What reason would the "courts" have to believe him if Gaeta revealed that he was the informant? What evidence of this does he have?

[Thermonuclearboy]

Well, if Tyrol is part of this assassination squad, he'd be able to verify Gaeta's story, since he was the one Gaeta was communicatiing with. Assuming Tyrol is there. And assuming he doesn't have one of his "stupid Chief!" moments.

But I think Gaeta's days are numbered, frankly. Alas.

[yaaayoubetcha]

I didn't think there could be a better ending to space battle than in S4 of B5 when Sherridan took the rebelling Earth fleet back to Earth.

I was wrong.

This outright rocked. Glad it happened this way though. Pegasus was far too big a plot mistake to keep going indefinately but at least taking out a couple Basestars in its final seconds was a good death.

Mostly, glad to see it gone. As somebody above mentioned, it was too overpowered for the theme of the show. Still, the scene after all the raptors jumped and you saw it head on, all the little fires on its hull...awesome.

I'm interested to see how they resolve the presidency issue, but I suspect they'll do another 'x years/months later' cut since RDM doesn't seem to like to deal in details. Oh that year on the planet and the current lack of civilian gov't...nah...that's all fixed now and that's all you need to know.

This is a real opportunity for tptb to turn Tigh into a truly great/scary character and I hope they take advantage.

Technically Lee can be returned to Captain, or whatever rank without it being an actual retcon/reboot of his character. He knowingly disobeyed a direct order from a Flag officer. As punishment he could be stripped of his command (since he has no ship anyway) and reduced in rank to say...Captain and returned to pilot/CAG duties. It would be a technically ok way to do it without damaging either of the Adama characters.

I've got to say that I'm glad the whole Kara/Casey thing is over. I've always found it somewhat sexist writing that the most popular way to depower/undo a strong female character is to make them a mother. Invariably they start writing the ladies doing comepletely out of character things 'for the baby'. Sure Kara may or may not have wanted a baby but under those circumstances...in prison, knowing the cylons lie for their own purposes, knowing that that particular model has lied to her previously and enjoys messing with her head...why would she ever go from her initial reaction of "that's not a baby, it's a cylon" all the way to the opposite pole of not only holding a Cylon hand at the end of last ep but beyond that to actually running back into the detention center for the child?

Ah well...still after all that...:sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: starbucks outta :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam:

[Oka]

Amazing episode. 10/10. I feel sorry for Col. Tigh. The ending was perfect.

[Przemos19]

Great episode...
But I found out something interesting - there is scene at about 23:50 to 23:59 when we see Lee Adama on Pegasus and then... LEE Adama running from prison on NC.
So - LEE A CYLON?!

[Mainer82]

I actually thought that they were going to destry the Battlestar and Adama for a minute.... then I expected Pegasus to jump in. I'm sad that it's destroyed but it had to be done. I'm hoping they have an episode that focuses on reparing the ship.

[Tempis]

The viola music at the end sounds a bit like Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber.

[thelung187]

The viola music at the end sounds a bit like Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber.

From "Platoon"? I didn't catch that.

All in all, probably one of the best developed pieces for television ever done. I was amazed at the CGI of Galactica in the atmosphere, laughed where Gaeta said "You'll get your wish" or whatever to Gaius, and was intrigued by next week's episode.

That said, if you go to scifi.com, go under the battlestar tab, and look at the episode for next week ("Collaborators"), you'll see that they have a Flash animation of screenshots. In the screenshots, there is a picture of Rosalin and some holy looking guy and a crowd on Colonial One, her holding up her right hand. I'm making an educated guess that she, not Zarek, will be el presidente.


Besides they kill Gaeta who will be the ambiguously gay charachter on the show??

that made me laugh out loud :) But yeah, the whole "I gave you the frequencies, dog bowl, etc.", him = off the hook.

[mgehman]

Just to let everyone know the episode is already available on iTunes. I'm downloading it now. :cameron:

[madk99]

Obviously, one has to account much of the successful rescue effort to the fact that the cylons were fragmented. Even though they came up with a final solution that rivaled the original 'final solution', they did not execute it well.

If they had decided that they should nuke the city, then it follows that they had decided the entire coexistance experiement had been a bust -- and, therefore, they should continue with the original plans of genocide. Which means that the cylon ground toops would have engaged and easily destroyed much of civie population. This also means that the raiders would have engaged the civilian fleet. No doubt they would have taken out quite a few. They were concentrated, slow moving, unarmed ships that had to wait for the boarding of tens of thousands of passengers.

Yes, I understand that there was fighter cover dropped in by Galactica and that the insurgents ("Damn Surgeons!") were engaging the bulletheads. But we did not see as much carnage as one might expect. I think the implication is that the full force of the Cylon was not yet targeting civilians. I think we can assume that in the rapidly developing battlefield, the chain of command took time. That fact, as much as anything was a large factor in the successful escape.

I think we can compare this battle to many real battles in which the winner and loser was determined by luck, incompetance, and sheer balls. This can overcome strategic advantages.

So. Now with the failed experiement behind then -- what is "The Plan"??

[Callsign:Spooky]

Wander My Friends is an excellent tune. iTunes is reporting that I've listened to it 57 times, the last being on Sept 18. It’s a good but overused song. I personally would like to hear something new.

[LoneStar1836]

Great episode. I’m not ready to label it as the best episode to date because there were parts/aspects that I wasn’t completely happy with, but it was an impressive episode.

The visual effects/CGI were top notch. The episode was absolutely beautiful to watch.

I was kind of stunned to see how large the Pegasus was compared to a basestar. For some reason I had it in my mind that basestars were just…well bigger. I mean the frakking flight pod took out another basestar by itself. And did anyone notice that (if you slow down the tape) it looked as it some Raiders were kamikazing into the Pegasus as it was making its own death run at a basestar?


-Holy crap, Tigh killed his wife. I had a feeling it would happen, but what a sock in the gut when it did. I ended up liking Ellen toward the end - sure she started off as a manipulative twit but in the last few eps she did everything for Tigh. What a sad scene. And did she know she was drinking poison, or is that just my twisted mind? Wow. :(I’d like to think that she didn’t know. She loved the man too much to think that he would do that, and I don’t think she had the kind of integrity to knowingly kill herself.

I’ve always liked Tigh, in that I find the strengths and weaknesses of his character interesting, not necessarily because I think he’s a great person. Ellen played into who he was, plus she was a character of her own. I loved to hate her, but I found her death scene sad. :( For all her downfallings, she truly loved the man to endure what she has and do what she did even though she was a terrible influence on Tigh many a time.

I kind of get why Tigh killed her (more for his own honor/integrity and in someway Ellen’s), but she was no longer a liability. Adama was coming and all they had to do was keep her secured until it was time to leave. Her death was needless. It was basically an honor killing, imo.

Excellent acting by Michael Hogan and the actress that plays Ellen. Especially during his return to Galactica scene. Best two emotional scenes in the episode for me.


This is the first time I ever felt anything other than utter contempt for Saul Tigh. When he said to Adama, "We didn't save everyone," did anyone else get the sense he wasn't just talking about his wife? He finally realizes what a monster he has become..I did.


-On that note, losing Hera seemed too easy. This is the child that everyone was so bent on saving and protecting? I get the feeling that her loss was caused by internal cylon betrayal, but TPTB aren't ready to reveal exactly who did it yet. Still, Tory is on my watch list...My major nitpick was why didn’t they already have some of the population on the transport ships? Especially important people like Maya and the baby. I know they were trying to keep her hidden but I wonder why they couldn’t have smuggled her on to one of the ships very near the deadline for the rescue. One would assume that since the Cylons confiscated the launch keys, then they wouldn’t worry so much about people being on the ships. I would assume that people were still living on these ships. Nothing was ever said that the ships were off limits, at least not that I can remember. Yeah, they were in a ship yard and the gate was being guarded by a chromdome after the chaos began, but that’s not definitive evidence that they were off limits. I’m going to assume for the sake of maintaining the intelligence levels of the top people involved that the ships were being guarded and people were prohibited from being on them. Otherwise someone should have thought about making sure she was safely aboard one of the ships before the chaos broke out, thus cutting down on the chance that the she and the baby would be killed.

Obviously for the sake of the upcoming storylines, the baby had to fall into the hands of the Cylons, but otherwise I still have some questions about the conditions surrounding the accessibility of the ships.


PS- Where has it ever been mentioned that the Pegasus has its own facilities for producing more ships? :confused:In “Scar”. That’s why they were hanging around and mining those asteroids so that the refined product could be used by Pegasus to replenish the Viper fleet.


Galactica dropping into the atmosphere was mind blowing. I saw it jump into the sky and thought How on Earth can she fly? Oh...she...can't! Truly one of the most amazing FX shots in television history.I think I was stunned by what was happening and was like how the hell is the BSG not going to crash. I totally did not see the interatmospheric jump coming…into or out of.


Poor Saul and Kara... :( But I cheered when she stabbed that motherfraker in the guts!Especially when she twisted it for good measure.


Problem I have with the episode and rest of the series now is the massive character retcon.

So what is Lee Commander of now? His dressingroom? Or will he be stripped of his rank and we just 'reset' to a pre-determined "Lee is the KAG, better luck next time" And if so what avout everyone else who got promoted, like the new XOs of Pegasus and Galactica respectively :PYeah, I would really like to know how all of that will shake out. There is no way Tigh will stand for Lee outranking him on his own ship. I just hope Helo has been promoted from Lt. during all this time, and that he gets to keep whatever rank he’s at.

As far as who’s president and who isn’t, Zarek is the legal president since he was Baltar’s VP. I hope they don’t just let Roslin waltz back into office. She herself was one of the strongest backers of upholding democracy as they know it, so her just taking back the office goes against her character. I don’t think Zarek will just move aside for her either unless he feels guilty for suggesting Baltar play the “planet card” in order to get elected. If it takes another election then so be it, but first they will have to come up with someway to make Zarek step down or agree to another election. Just putting her back in power (without another election) is a copout unless they have some really good reasoning behind it.

Now about what they left behind on New Caprica. I wonder if anyone will consider going back to the planet to salvage from what was left behind. They had to have left valuable equipment behind not to mention foodstuffs. The websodes mentioned that there were farms being cultivated. With Pegasus, Cloud 9, and several other ships now destroyed, there has to put a crimp in supplying food to the fleet. Granted several thousand died when Cloud 9 blew up and took several other ships with it, and there were probably a thousand or so killed on New Caprica during the occupation and rescue, but they have still got to have over 30,000 people to feed. Besides. They have to go back and get Jake. ;) I’m thinking no one bothered to make sure he was evacuated. :(

[Macharius0]

Well a lot of what you are stating is assumed. We have no idea how bad she was falling apart once the Pegasus came on the scene. The Pegasus could very well have supplemented repairs with goods and parts from her own inventory. We also know that the Galactica can go toe to toe with a Basestar and survive. So realisticly its like trading in a 2004 for a 2006 model car. You may get more bells and whistles but it still gets you from A to B. Newer does not always equal better.
At the end of the day it would have been better not to loose either but since it was a choice between loosing one or both IMHO I think Lee made the right call. Esp since they took out, at minimum, 3 basestars doing it.

PS- Where has it ever been mentioned that the Pegasus has its own facilities for producing more ships? :confused:

I see where you're going. But I've got some pretty decent proof to back up my theories.

In regards to how badly Galactica was falling apart, in pretty much most of the scenes from the end of S2 and the start of S3 showed Galactica in a state of disrepair. There were a few I remember where Adama had to use a flashlight just to get to the CIC because all the corridor lights had burned out an noone was around to fix them. Who knows what else was in the same state, I'm guessing a lot.

As far as repairs, even if Pegasus gave Galactica the supplies she'd needed to get back in fighting form, they probably used them all up and more during the ensuing battle. For example, Half the electronics on her bridge are now burned out after what I'm calling "The Adama Maneuver", during the battle that followed almost all of her major systems were disabled. She was a hairs bredth away from blowing up when the Beast arrived. She probably needs a complete overhaul and two years in a shipyard, neither of which she can get.

All that action also frakked her up pretty good. It looked like one of her dorsal turret mounts took a direct hit right near the end, so that's 20% of her main battery out of action right there, I can't even count the number of other hits she took. Looked like her defensive fire was almost gone when the Beast arrived. Looking at her bridge displays even before that particular pummeling showed she had damage along her entire port flight pod, engines, and half her prow just at a glance. That's probably half her weapons and all her flight capabilities right there, plus engine damage (Helo reported that their maneuvering thrusters were out too).

Also, she probably took considerable hull damage just from dropping through the atmo and jumping out. It would have exposed her superheated hull (which wasn't designed for that in the first place) to the extreme cold of the void. Her entire hull probably has thousands of fissures and other shatter damage, if not outright buckling. It's like dropping a glass that had ice in it for a long time into a sink full of hot water, the thing breaks. (I forgot that and did it last week, so it's entirely possible, nearly cut off my finger in the process.)

As far as excanaging a 2004 car for a 2006 model. The Galactica is already 50 years older thant the Pegasus, and as such has much less in the way of technology and upgrades. She's got no prow battery thet we've seen yet, while the Pegasus used hers to great effect. Galactica's design is for use against the original Cylon Basestars, not the new ones. She was built for another time, and her design flaws are well evident, I'll elaborate if you wish later. And when all this started she'd been stripped and on the way to be a museum piece, while the Pegasus was just going in for an overhaul and was otherwise combat ready. The difference between the two would be something akin to a Sherman Tank going up against a Russian T-72, whereas the Pegasus is more like an Abrams. Which would you rather be fighting in? I love the Galactica, but would you really want to pick her when there's a better weapon in the Pegasus?

I'm not sure Lee made the right call when he left the Beast to get slaughtered. All the ships he was trying to protect on New Caprica were jumping as soon as they got off the ground, so they should have been pretty safe from the Cylon Baseships.

He could have stood off at range and used Pegasus prow weaponry to much better effect than throwing himself in the middle of three or four baseships, then jumped away without getting stuck in the middle and trampled like he did. The Cylons had already taken a lot of damage at that point to be pretty disoriented, and they didn't know where the fleet was jumping to anyways. Plus causing all that damage to the Cylons wouldn't have made much difference anyways, they had at least three more Baseships out there somewhere. I think 7 had originally found New Caprica last season. The Colonials will never win a numbers game against the Cylons, not at this point.

That's all I'll put for now. One more thing though, regarding your PS, Pegasus being able to build her own Vipers and such was the entire premise of the S2 ep. "Scar" the first five minutes tell you all you need to hear in that regard.

Thanks for your comments, liked them very much. Go Galactica!

[Przemos19]

And thanks to Cylon Lee Adama fleet has no pegasus, no viper factory and limited chances.

[thenakedgod]

DAMN. i just finished watching The Exodus, part 2 (had to dvr is as i was out friday night), and i just have to say how utterly amazing and just bad-ass this episode was. everything was done so well. and not to mention the way galactica jumps in to the atmosphere, falls towards the ground, launches its vipers, then jumps out.. HOLY CRAP! i know everyone else here thinks that was probably the best bit of action from any movie or show ever.. i would have to agree. i had to rewind and watch it two more times because it was that awesome. i was cheering and yelling at how great that was. and then pegasus coming to the rescue, then getting destroyed.. wow.

this show is definitely the best sci-fi show on tv, and probably the best ever.

[Descent]

That was amazing. Absolutely amazing. I would not hesitate to call it the best BSG episode ever. From Ellen's death (which, didn't sadden me too much) to Galactica falling to the Pegasus' Sacrifice to the very end. This episode was perfect to me.

Exodus Part 2 gets **** from me, no question about it.

[Legionnaire]

I'm not sure Lee made the right call when he left the Beast to get slaughtered. All the ships he was trying to protect on New Caprica were jumping as soon as they got off the ground, so they should have been pretty safe from the Cylon Baseships.

He could have stood off at range and used Pegasus prow weaponry to much better effect than throwing himself in the middle of three or four baseships, then jumped away without getting stuck in the middle and trampled like he did. The Cylons had already taken a lot of damage at that point to be pretty disoriented, and they didn't know where the fleet was jumping to anyways. Plus causing all that damage to the Cylons wouldn't have made much difference anyways, they had at least three more Baseships out there somewhere. I think 7 had originally found New Caprica last season. The Colonials will never win a numbers game against the Cylons, not at this point.


Only problem with this is that the baseships would have continued pounding Galactica and destroying her if Pegasus had been far out trying to battle at long range, the only way the baseships were all going to be distracted was by making Pegasus an immediate threat, and that was by putting her up right next to the baseship. Its like if 4 people are beating up your friend, you can stay away and throw some rocks, or you can put yourself right there and try to take them on so that your friend can get up and run. Sure, its a sacrifice, but Lee wasnt going in to damage the Cylons as much as possible, but to save his father and to do what it took in order for that to happen, and that just so happened to mean the destruction of three baseships.

[Descent]

It sucks that the Pegasus had to go but at least it went down in style.

[acce]

One Word to describe that episode: WOW!

But I felt sorry for Ellen Tigh!
What will happens with Gaius?
Is Laura president again?

[madk99]

Besides they kill Gaeta who will be the ambiguously gay charachter on the show??

Why. Kat, of course.

[Descent]

So are Baltar and Six now with the Cylons? Is that how they got off the planet? I sure don't see why any Colonials would give them a lift. :P

[madk99]

I was secretely hoping that Baltar would end up with the Cylons. They probably won't give him his own Basestar to command but maybe they'll set him up with a swivel chair and lighting from below. You know, something to accentuate the circles under his eyes from lack of sleep. His swivel chair will need extra lumbar support to account for his lack of spine.

[Descent]

Best...episode...yet. Hands down. And it obviously had the biggest budget, too.

Oh yeah, I can't imagine what the budget for this episode was but they obviously were able to do a LOT with what they had. :cool:

And hands down, the Galactica atmosphere jump along with the Vipers blowing out of it has to be the coolest thing I have seen on a Sci-Fi show. Ever. :cool:

[Prior3535]

Ive seen equally good stuff before in terms of special effects, so dunno what the fuss is about.


I was secretely hoping that Baltar would end up with the Cylons. They probably won't give him his own Basestar to command but maybe they'll set him up with a swivel chair and lighting from below. You know, something to accentuate the circles under his eyes from lack of sleep. His swivel chair will need extra lumbar support to account for his lack of spine.

So far, Baltar hasnt really done anything wrong, but has had his hand forced each time.

People arnt charged with crime when they are forced at gunpoint to do something.

[Descent]

Ive seen equally good stuff before in terms of special effects, so dunno what the fuss is about.

Hell, the special effects used were too good for TV. The plan itself was rather clever.

Some shows could have the best special effects ever but it's what they do with those effects that really counts. ;)

[Backlash]

Baltar could actually put up a reasonable defense. When the Cylons arrived, the fleet jumped away, leaving NC defenseless. Baltar acted in humanity's best interest by surrendering. After that, he was just a puppet on the Cylons' strings, forced to comply with their wishes.

Of course many of the colonials, especially the resistance, are too unreasonable to accept that.

[foxhound22]

What reason would the "courts" have to believe him if Gaeta revealed that he was the informant? What evidence of this does he have?

Intimate knowledge and details that only a select few within the resistance knew about. For instance the method of contact and the content of the information revealed to the resistance would be enough to at least cause doubt in any jury.

Real life crimes have been solved and successfully brought to trial simply based on intimate knowledge that was confessed or spoken of by defendants or witnesses. Quick example is the cold murder case, then a few years later some guy starts mentioning little details about the scene that only the investigators or the murderer would know about. This particular scenario recently got a innocent man out of jail near where I live.

So yes, his simple testimony could cause enough doubt as to his guilt.

[IMAX]

This was the best ep yet for me. The Galactica jump in/out scene was amazing. When she jump in @ first, I was like what the hell is that? Then I realized. HOLY SHCNIT!!! Definitely a emotionally action packed ep...

[foxhound22]

The viola music at the end sounds a bit like Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber.


Its the opening to "Wander My Friends" by Bear Mcreary off of the first season soudtrack. Just in case you are looking for it.

[Major Fischer]

Why. Kat, of course.

There is something ambigious about Kat?

[Descent]

Btw, anyone know what music piece was playing during the Galactica's freefall? The celtic theme Bear uses works a lot more than I thought it would, makes me proud to be Irish. :P

[Macharius0]

Only problem with this is that the baseships would have continued pounding Galactica and destroying her if Pegasus had been far out trying to battle at long range, the only way the baseships were all going to be distracted was by making Pegasus an immediate threat, and that was by putting her up right next to the baseship. Its like if 4 people are beating up your friend, you can stay away and throw some rocks, or you can put yourself right there and try to take them on so that your friend can get up and run. Sure, its a sacrifice, but Lee wasnt going in to damage the Cylons as much as possible, but to save his father and to do what it took in order for that to happen, and that just so happened to mean the destruction of three baseships.

I do see your point, although I think disabling or destroying one basestar in the opening salvo would have made Pegasus a serious threat. Pegasus' opening move was the same as entering a fistfight by shooting one of the fighters in the head. It doesn't matter where he fired from, the end result will still be that moment of needed confusion for your friend to haul ass out of there. I've got a feeling that the other three would happen to take notice when their buddy crumpled dead in a heap.

At any rate, once Galactica had jumped away Pegasus would have been free to do the same, rather than sticking around for a kamikaze run. All those baseships and raiders were too far away by then to bother the Colonials on the ground. Colonial One made it off the surface completely unopposed even with at least one baseship and a mess of fighters in orbit.

As I said before, even if he'd taken out all 4 baseships, the fleet would have still been outnumbered. Granted taking out three baseships was an impressive feat, but sacrificing one Battlestar that could have otherwise gotten away doesn't make much tactical sense. Lee should have come up with a better rescue plan than the Chewbacca defense.

[Major Fischer]

At any rate, once Galactica had jumped away Pegasus would have been free to do the same, rather than sticking around for a kamikaze run.

No, he wasn't. All of the civilian fleet hadn't jumped away at that point. The battle after all wasn't about protecting Galactica. It was about protecting the civilian fleet.

[Descent]

No, he wasn't. All of the civilian fleet hadn't jumped away at that point. The battle after all wasn't about protecting Galactica. It was about protecting the civilian fleet.

And getting everyone off New Caprica. Had Pegasus jumped away, the Basestars would have been free to bombard any incoming ships and not to mention the planet itself.

[DarkOne]

The Galactica didn't have their FTL drives up till right at the end. Pegasus had to wait and Colonial one was still on the ground and probably one or two others. Too much damage was done by the base stars that had it completely surrounded and I am sure the Cylons concentrated on its FTL drives as well.

[Callsign:Spooky]

This is the first time I ever felt anything other than utter contempt for Saul Tigh. When he said to Adama, "We didn't save everyone," did anyone else get the sense he wasn't just talking about his wife? He finally realizes what a monster he has become.


No because people don't get that what she did could have lead to the extinction of the human race. We aren't talking losing a battle here, we aren't talking the end of a civilization. We are talking extinction of the species. My mom had bladder cancer this summer. They removed the tumor. The biopsy came back as an aggressive form of cancer. Thankfully it had not spread. She had two options. Wait and see if it returns or remove the bladder. She went with options two. My point being is that in these situations risks can NOT be taken. The Cylons will be looking for her. She is a known tie to the resistance.
I feel for her. I understand her motives and sympathize, but Saul is not worth the ballgame. And to be honest if Sharon and her team had been captured or killed it would have taken a LONG time for the resistance and the Galactica to regroup. Frankly I think the Cylons were getting ready to do what they had threatened:

1. Nuke the place.
2. Decrease the population to a more manageable size.

In either case it would put humanity on life support. Saul is not a monster. He is simply human with human weaknesses something that TV hates to show us. How often do you see someone on SG1 with a drinking problem? Someone who sleeps around? Etc. Battlestar is reality TV for sci-fi.

[Macharius0]

And getting everyone off New Caprica. Had Pegasus jumped away, the Basestars would have been free to bombard any incoming ships and not to mention the planet itself.

What incoming ships? All the Colonials were jumping as soon as they made it off the ground, they never got anywhere near orbit. The Cylons on New Caprica were in full retreat, either evacuating completely or scrambling for orbit to join the attack against the Battlestars.

The only real threat to the folks planetside were the Raiders on the surface. If any of those were a threat, the civilian ships would have been sitting ducks as soon as Galactica recalled her Vipers. Pegasus had nothing to do with protecting the ships on the ground, it would have been way out of range and had left all of her Vipers at the rendezvous point.

What we saw on the surface was a strategic retreat by both sides. The Cylons retreated because they lost control of the city and were preparing to nuke it. The Colonials retreated because they were trying to get the hell out of there. By then everything on the ground was a moot point, the battle had shifted to the fighting in orbit, which brings back my point that the Pegasus should have jumped as soon as Galactica. Lee had no other objective besides rescuing his old man and his ship.

[winstainforth]

Thankgod for the internet and usenet, us Brits can watch just as few hours after the States.

The best episode of any sci-fi show ever. Can't wait to watch it in HD in a few months!

[Orion's Star]

There is something ambigious about Kat?

I think Kat is a much more ambiguously gay character than Gaeta, honestly. I thought Scar went a long way to establishing that. If I had to put money on a character "suddenly" becoming gay for this long talked about potential storyline by RDM and Eick develeoping (but probably never will), it would be her.

Or Racetrack, but that is mostly just shameless wishful thinking on my part. :o

[Descent]

What incoming ships? All the Colonials were jumping as soon as they made it off the ground, they never got anywhere near orbit. The Cylons on New Caprica were in full retreat, either evacuating completely or scrambling for orbit to join the attack against the Battlestars.

The only real threat to the folks planetside were the Raiders on the surface. If any of those were a threat, the civilian ships would have been sitting ducks as soon as Galactica recalled her Vipers. Pegasus had nothing to do with protecting the ships on the ground, it would have been way out of range and had left all of her Vipers at the rendezvous point.

What we saw on the surface was a strategic retreat by both sides. The Cylons retreated because they lost control of the city and were preparing to nuke it. The Colonials retreated because they were trying to get the hell out of there. By then everything on the ground was a moot point, the battle had shifted to the fighting in orbit, which brings back my point that the Pegasus should have jumped as soon as Galactica. Lee had no other objective besides rescuing his old man and his ship.

Yes but where were those Raiders coming from: The Basestars. Without the Pegasus to even the odds, the Galactica would've been destroyed along with New Caprica. The Cylon's wanted to nuke it and when Deanna didn't go through with detonating it, they would've had the Basestars do it.

[LightMeDark]

That was a fantastic episode. I'm nervous about Gaeta's fate in the next episode as I've always liked the character.

I'm also one of those that was happy with the Pegasus' death. It was something I felt needed to happen to make the show more tight and focused.

[Major Fischer]

I'm also one of those that was happy with the Pegasus' death. It was something I felt needed to happen to make the show more tight and focused.

I was glad as well, I thought the Pegesus seperated the cast too much.

[Legionnaire]

I was glad as well, I thought the Pegesus seperated the cast too much.

My thoughts exactly, I liked it more when everyone was on one Battlestar, much more interaction with established characters that we like and dislike, more interesting that way. Pegasus took away from that.

[rejven]

Brilliant! Simply briliant!

Besides "Pegassus" episode this one was for sure the best one yet. Now I cant wait to se the "new" commad structure. Since Lee lost his ship and his rank is Commander , Tigh can no longer be an XO of Galactica. And how scene on the hangar-deck ended I really fear for his future. Hope he doesnt do anything stupid cos he`s one of my fav character. The other bigger problem will be who shall be the new cag. Will it be Kara again or Cat? Or perhaps Lee will be demoted to rank of Captain and take over as new cag.
I was kinda happy that Pegassus was destroyed cos the show is about Galactica and Pegassus took quite a lot of attention from her. And since it was
bigger and stronger it just didnt feel right :).
Regarding the position of president I think that Laura will take over till new ellections.
Im also interested how many people are still in the fleet and how many died after the settled on New Caprica.
And also now that Baltar was "left behind" on New Caprica I wonder how or even If he`ll ever rejoin colonial fleet.Cos colonials will countinue to search for Earth and since the pose no real danger for the cylons it would be illogical for them to hunt them further.

[Major Fischer]

Cos colonials will countinue to search for Earth and since the pose no real danger for the cylons it would be illogical for them to hunt them further.

Hardly. Three articulates exactly why the cylons can't just let the humans go. If they left the humans alone they would recover and flourish, and with each generation pass on the story of what happened until they were strong enough to seak out and destroy the cylons.

[DOIKECARTER]

* The Lee/Dee scene was painful to watch, and not really because of her. He's whiny and depressed, first he argues that they have to leave the New Capricans behind and now he feels guilty about it? If I have to have an Adama in charge of the Pegesus can I have Dee in charge since she seems to be the only militarily competent one in that marriage.

* The kiss was incredibly ackward. I litterally had to look away from the screen. Please get divorced so I can like watching these two characters again.

* Poor Tigh, I feel so bad for him in the scene with Anders during the teaser. He knows as well as Sam does what has to be done. Kate Vernon is brilliant, I hate her character but she's a loss to the show. She was also really beautiful crying. I didn't think I'd feel bad when she died.... but I kind of do. She goes down in a long list of women who have found themselves stuck between their loved ones and a war.

* Baltar and Three's conversation about hate and civilizations teaching their children reminds me of the story of the king of Persia who had a servent whisper "remember the Greeks" in his ear every day until he threw himself into battle against them. There are elements of Iraq there, and I wonder what Baltar really thought would happen to him if the cylons left, but it's more other things. I do admire Baltar for saying something that is marginally in humanities best interests and not his own. Beautiful dialogue.

* I love that Baltar considers Roslin and Zarek to be the most dangerous people to be out and free.

* The shots of ships in clouds are really beautiful. This is some of the best battle footage I've ever seen and that buisness of Galacitca falling like a rock was really good. It was a tactic I didn't expect even though I knew Galactica would be in the atmosphere.

* "You sure have a sense of the dramatic." Damn right she does and that's why we love her so. This had a sweet sense of concern on Zarek's part for Laura, even if he did hand a gun to a NCP officer to protect her. But he can be forgiveen his ignorance. I wonder if Jammer may survive the next episode because of this.

* Wow... I can't believe I admire Baltar.

* Well, that was an honorable end for the Battlestar Pegesus. Beautiful CGI.

* Predictably Maya is dead. Too bad she had a job, I liked the character. Three is so adorably ackward with Hera. I think I like that storyline.

* Ah, glad to know one of my theories about Casey was right.

* Mary's eyes are amazing. So much there. Tory's actress is really good too, much better than I had given her credit for. I think she really does love Laura as much as Billy did.

* Yay, gone is the porn 'stach!
I loved the episode. It was moving, exciting, full of action....amazing both technically and emotionally... and even I felt sorry for Ellen.

I wish Mary/Laura had had a bigger role in this one. A question: if Zarek was Baltar´s VP and they´d been on the planet for more than a year his term had been biggern than Laura, so why he didn´t got to Colonial One with her?

[daniel9]

well i dunno in some spoilers or interview it said baltar wold be with the colonials again later in the season tho i have no idea how that will happen. gaeta is prettymuch the only person that can show his hand was forced. orthat the cylons went against his ideas.

i wonder tho who the unrevealed cylons still are tho? i mean after that these 3 eps just who can they possibly be?

where was that deleted scene where rosslin was whispering soemthing into baltars ear? could that have been after baltar disappeared in the fog. and rosslin whispered something into his ear and then he turns the presidency over to her then leaves? i dunno it seems like something he would do. and it does ties up the presidential lose end. and i dont think rosslin would kill him


edited with a reminder, any and ALL future episode discussion MUST be in spoiler tags

[Selin Peers]

We learned another interesting tibit about the Galactica this episode. Now we know why battlestars have two or four jump engines! (Remember, it takes time after each jump to respool-up and charge the jump engines.) Sequence jumping would be a tactical and strategic capability of the Colonial Fleet that's not seen in the Civilian Fleet. Being able to make several successive jumps also allows for the Colonial Fleet to quickly respond and move over greater distances safely in a shorter period of time.

[Major Fischer]

Being able to make several successive jumps also allows for the Colonial Fleet to quickly respond and move over greater distances safely in a shorter period of time.

Or you could use one engine for a very short jump where as you need more than one for a long jump. After all in this case Galactica was jumping only a kilometer or two.

[coloradoraider]

Simply great television. I can't say that any other episodic show has ever drawn me into the story/characters like this show does.

The Adama Manuver > *

[Excali5033]

Watched it again, and paid close attention to Ellen. Wow. She knew what was happening. It was a final confession, and then she asked for the drink. And she knew. And HE knew that SHE knew, just from the facial expressions. I really hope they let this play out with Saul's character.

[Selin Peers]

Or you could use one engine for a very short jump where as you need more than one for a long jump. After all in this case Galactica was jumping only a kilometer or two.

Minor Correction. If New Caprica was in an way appreciable and comparable to Earth in size and or atmospheric density and gravitational mass, it would have been quite abit more then a kilometer or two. The Exosphere of Earth boundaries at approximately 400 km above the planetary surface, and I'd wadger that Galactica jump much further back into orbit then 400 km.

The space shuttle orbits Earth at 320 km, or 200 miles. And that's still within the boundary of the Exosphere.

[Major Fischer]

Watched it again, and paid close attention to Ellen. Wow. She knew what was happening. It was a final confession, and then she asked for the drink. And she knew. And HE knew that SHE knew, just from the facial expressions. I really hope they let this play out with Saul's character.

RDM says in the podcast that he thinks Ellen knows.

I suspect that Tigh wont be in any shape to return to duty on Galactica for a long time.

[Major Fischer]

Minor Correction. If New Caprica was in an way appreciable and comparable to Earth in size and or atmospheric density and gravitational mass, it would have been quite abit more then a kilometer or two. The Exosphere of Earth boundaries at approximately 400 km above the planetary surface, and I'd wadger that Galactica jump much further back into orbit then 400 km.

The space shuttle orbits Earth at 320 km, or 200 miles. And that's still within the boundary of the Exosphere.

I stand corrected. I'm a geologist not an astronomer ;) Still, it's a relatively short jump to what those ships normally do.

[Selin Peers]

I agree, it also tells us quite abit about the versatility of the jump engines. That their minimum jump range is quite short. If Galactica could plot jump coordinates faster, it could really be quite a powerful capability, like the Imperial Short Hyperjumps or the Picard Manauver. But Galactica's computers blow.

[Major Fischer]

But Galactica's computers blow.

Deliberately so. I wonder if the Colonial's ships were more manauverable before the first cylon war when they didn't have the cultural bias against computers.

[Selin Peers]

More of a cultural bias against Artificial Intelligences. I think Computers were making quite the come back prior to the mini-series. Hell! I think Pegasus's computer systems must have been lightyears ahead of the Galacticas. I got the impression that practically all the weapons could be manned and fired from CIC. The automation was quite an improvement.

[Major Fischer]

More of a cultural bias against Artificial Intelligences. I think Computers were making quite the come back prior to the mini-series.

I think we are meant to understand that the resurrgance of computer technology we see in the mini is evidence that humanity had forgotten the lessons of the first war. They had become comfortable and soft and that is what made them vulnerable to attack. Remember that many many ships like Pegesus were destroyed in that attack because of their computer systems, not inspite of them. Pegesus herself survived by pure luck that she was half shut down at the time, and by Admiral Cain's skill.

[wontgetfooledagain]

RDM says in the podcast that he thinks Ellen knows.

RDM thinks she knows? This guy's the producer and who know's what else fer cryin' out loud!

[ShadowMaat]

RDM thinks she knows? This guy's the producer and who know's what else fer cryin' out loud!

I think it's nice. He says he thinks she did, but it leaves it open to interpretation so that those who want to think that she didn't know can do so without causing any canonical wars. :P

[wontgetfooledagain]

Yeah, I know. I just found it to be kind of funny that the guy who seems to be pretty much running the show says that he thinks she knew the drink was poison. I would wonder if Tigh was tempted to drink the stuff.

[Major Fischer]

I think it's nice. He says he thinks she did, but it leaves it open to interpretation so that those who want to think that she didn't know can do so without causing any canonical wars. :P

Exactly. Not only that but it acknowledges that the actor's portrayal brings something to the work and it's not all in the writers hands. It's nice to me that RDM rarely says something for certain in the commentaries that are about characters motives, but will give his thoughts.

[Selin Peers]

I think we are meant to understand that the resurrgance of computer technology we see in the mini is evidence that humanity had forgotten the lessons of the first war. They had become comfortable and soft and that is what made them vulnerable to attack. Remember that many many ships like Pegesus were destroyed in that attack because of their computer systems, not inspite of them. Pegesus herself survived by pure luck that she was half shut down at the time, and by Admiral Cain's skill.

Yes, but the computers on Pegasus after having (apparently) purging the nagivigational programing or whatever the hell it was the Baltar let Six get into, still proved to be "The BEAST!" With! I might add it's considerable computer array controlling quite abit of it's systems. The Cylons were only able to infiltrate the Colonial Networks with pre-positioned/installed backdoors. It's not computers themselves that the Colonials are biased against. The Computer itself is like a gun. Did the gun shoot the person? Or was it the person behind the gun? Same applies to the Colonial Computers.

[Major Fischer]

Yes, but the computers on Pegasus after having (apparently) purging the nagivigational programing or whatever the hell it was the Baltar let Six get into, still proved to be "The BEAST!" With! I might add it's considerable computer array controlling quite abit of it's systems. The Cylons were only able to infiltrate the Colonial Networks with pre-positioned/installed backdoors. It's not computers themselves that the Colonials are biased against. The Computer itself is like a gun. Did the gun shoot the person? Or was it the person behind the gun? Same applies to the Colonial Computers.

I think a lot of the people who like to sing the praises of "The Beast" miss a great deal of the point about what the cylon attack has taught us. I don't really blame the fans though, because I think the writers themselves lost their point sometime in 2.5 and have found it again.

Yes, AIs are the big nono, but so are networked computers and to achieve the kind of automation you are praising requires more networking that opens your ship up to infiltration and destruction. There was an entire fleet of ships just like Pegesus that were destroyed for many of the same reasons that you are saying are so wonderful.

If I think the computers are at fault doens't matter. I don't live in their world. I'm not a ludite. But colonial society would not have been infiltrated and defeated if they had not had a resurrgance in computer technology. The backdoor into the autonav systems would not have exists if they weren't relying on them to start with.

As a storytelling tool I think the Pegesus had a negative effect as well, it divided the cast too much from each other and made things far too comfortable. As RDM says in the podcast, nothing is quite so desperate if you know there is a supercarrier sitting off the port bow. In the end I think the Pegesus was always a poisoned command, a legacy of Cain. It caused division and rivalry in the military, it caused Lee to have a comfortable life and loose himself in peanuts and twinkies. It was an interesting twist for them to keep it around to defy expectations from the Pegesus/Resurrection Ship arc, but in the end it had as many problems as a story device as it solved.

[Descent]

RDM says in the podcast that he thinks Ellen knows.

I suspect that Tigh wont be in any shape to return to duty on Galactica for a long time.

I can't say I'm surprised. I wonder how Tigh is ever going to replace his eye. Maybe I should keep up with the podcasts...:P

[ShadowMaat]

I can't say I'm surprised. I wonder how Tigh is ever going to replace his eye.
Maybe he'll get a CYLON EYE! Take one from one of the Cavils. Takes the whole "eye for an eye" thing to a whole new level. :D

[wontgetfooledagain]

I wonder how Tigh is ever going to replace his eye.
Simple. Lasers.

[Descent]

Simple. Lasers.

Huh? There's nothing left. It got ripped out.

[GateShip One]

Remember that many many ships like Pegesus were destroyed in that attack because of their computer systems, not inspite of them. Pegesus herself survived by pure luck that she was half shut down at the time, and by Admiral Cain's skill.

Exactly. As we've seen in the show so far, one on one a Battlestar (be it Pegasus or Galactica) is quite a bit more powerful than a single Basestar. Without the backdoor into the Colonial's computers, the Cylons wouldn't have stood a chance against the Colonial's fleet of 120 Battlestars. I imagine a Mercury class Battlestar like the Pegasus, if in perfect working order, could easily take on 2 or 3 Basestars and win.

[wontgetfooledagain]

Point being? They'll never see the lasers coming from that empty socket. In fact, I'm convinced he's already had them installed. He nearly burned a hole through his eyepatch after he found out Ellen ratted them out.

[OfF3nSiV3]

what's the deal with gaeta?
he didn't do anything wrong to be judged for (except maybe...pointing a gun to the president of colonies...)

[Selin Peers]

I think a lot of the people who like to sing the praises of "The Beast" miss a great deal of the point about what the cylon attack has taught us. I don't really blame the fans though, because I think the writers themselves lost their point sometime in 2.5 and have found it again.

Yes, AIs are the big nono, but so are networked computers and to achieve the kind of automation you are praising requires more networking that opens your ship up to infiltration and destruction. There was an entire fleet of ships just like Pegesus that were destroyed for many of the same reasons that you are saying are so wonderful.

If I think the computers are at fault doens't matter. I don't live in their world. I'm not a ludite. But colonial society would not have been infiltrated and defeated if they had not had a resurrgance in computer technology. The backdoor into the autonav systems would not have exists if they weren't relying on them to start with.

As a storytelling tool I think the Pegesus had a negative effect as well, it divided the cast too much from each other and made things far too comfortable. As RDM says in the podcast, nothing is quite so desperate if you know there is a supercarrier sitting off the port bow. In the end I think the Pegesus was always a poisoned command, a legacy of Cain. It caused division and rivalry in the military, it caused Lee to have a comfortable life and loose himself in peanuts and twinkies. It was an interesting twist for them to keep it around to defy expectations from the Pegesus/Resurrection Ship arc, but in the end it had as many problems as a story device as it solved.

Your analysis is all fine and dandy, but you overlooked and omitted the keystone to the Cylon's infilitration of Colonial Computer Networks.

The CMP Navigation Program. A trojan horse backdoor into Colonial Networks. Galactica, despite having it, was not networked so it was never loaded into primary memory. Quoted from Gaeta. Afterwhich, the program was removed from both Galactica and her Vipers and Raptors. Yet a Computer Virus was still used against Galactica when it was networked for faster FTL plotting. Then again, that network was crudely configured and most likely had absolutely no real security built in, only a flimsy software firewall.

We're not sure exactly when and how Pegasus came to the same conclussion, but it's obvious that the Pegasus crew came to the same conclussion and took similar steps to safeguard itself and it's fighters. However, despite all the networking that must exist on Pegasus, Pegasus was never overrun by a computer virus, suggesting that Computer networking was still at a minimum or similar to hardwired computer networks today (the best computer security today is Hardware based, not software based), which is most likely more modern and advanced then Galactica's networks, because the Cylons did not pull the same trick on Pegasus, and I believe Pegasus had much more contact with the Cylon fleet durring it's guerillia warfare campaign. We haven't seen it, and we haven't heard about it, and the Colonials certainly did not appear to be affraid of it happening. So in conclusion, it doesn't seem to be a problem for a Mercury-class Battlestar.

So again, your analysis seems to be sugurcoated and taken from a perspective that omitted the primary cause for concern. That's bad reasoning, not taking everything into account.

[Callsign:Spooky]

Huh? There's nothing left. It got ripped out.

simple. Borg implant. :P

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I LOVE THAT MUSIC AT THE END - I WANT ODAMA'S BABY!


Soz but it makes him seem so patriotic, all he did was shave....I LOVED IT, MY FAV EPISODE!

[Selin Peers]

-sweatdrops- Uh... Wrong series bub.

[gateroom]

Exactly. As we've seen in the show so far, one on one a Battlestar (be it Pegasus or Galactica) is quite a bit more powerful than a single Basestar. Without the backdoor into the Colonial's computers, the Cylons wouldn't have stood a chance against the Colonial's fleet of 120 Battlestars. I imagine a Mercury class Battlestar like the Pegasus, if in perfect working order, could easily take on 2 or 3 Basestars and win.

Right, did you see the size of Pegasus it was at least twice as big. The front of the ship is what destroyed the basestar. The Flight Pod destreoyed another baseship for crying out loud. I think if the Pegasus was fully maned then they could of gotten out. I suppose that was the whole point of not being able to save the ship. As we could see there as only a half of dozen raptors that were being used for the evac. So i agree that if the Cylons didn't have a backdoor then the Colonial's would have wiped up the Cylons when the War started.

[Selin Peers]

You know, that leaves me wondering how large the Cylon fleet is. Surely after this last incident, the Colonials have sh*t kicked the hell out of the hornets nest. The Cylons are not going to be pleased, or even understanding.

[Temp2]

Am I going crazy, or was that Internal Six leaning over Baltar's shoulder when he picked up Hera?

[wontgetfooledagain]

Head Six is around when Caprica Six is around. What does this mean?

[Selin Peers]

He's a very sick, perverted man in need of not one, but Two sixes!

[AlphaBlu]

Tigh is probably one of the show's best characters. I cannot for the life of me work out why he is a 'guest star' and not in the main titles. Ditto for Aaron Douglas as well. Surley he's reached main character status - he's had more stories devoted to him that Dee has.

I really hope that they keep Tigh on as XO and don't kill him off. He's a great character, and I think he'd look even meaner with an eyepatch! ;)

BYE

[Thermonuclearboy]

what's the deal with gaeta?
he didn't do anything wrong to be judged for (except maybe...pointing a gun to the president of colonies...)

He worked for the occupational government. That makes him a collaborator, and thus deserving of death in the eyes of the extremists who apparently make up this death squad.

Remember, the audience knows Gaeta was the inside man, but none of the characters do. Not even Tyrol knew who he was getting his intel from (though, if he were a little bit smarter he might figure it out). So it's not impossible that he could be murdered by the death squad without having a chance to prove his loyalty.

[coloradoraider]

He's a very sick, perverted man in need of not one, but Two sixes!

Who couldn't use two Sixes? :cameron:

[dec55]

The big question is what's Boomer gonna do when she knows the whole truth
behind her kid....and where Hera is now.....?

[White Knight]

How Boomer reacts will depend on whether or not Helo is still around. If he is, she'll go nuts, be locked up, and its back to the S2 arrangement. If he's not, she'll go nuts, kill some Colonials, run away, take Hera back from the Cylons and maybe even join up with them.

[wontgetfooledagain]

Who couldn't use two Sixes? :cameron:
But if he had three sixes...it'd be like the Devil's Triangle.

[Trek_Girl42]

But if he had three sixes...it'd be like the Devil's Triangle.
Aww frak, I was going to say that..... :P

Oh well, here's some green. :D



Okay, must collect thoughts.....Frakkin' Awsome Episode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cried during half the ep, went and tried to watch it again to see it properly, found myself an even worse wreck then the first time. :P

The Adama Manuver, definitly one of the greatest pieces of CGI I've ever seen on tv. If they don't win the emmy for this ep.....well, we ought to look into whether the emmy voters have been replaced by cylons. ;)

Those screams you all heard resonating a around the globe a few hours ago, that was me, when the Galactica jumped in the atmosphere, and again when Peggy went down. ;)

Loved Peggy's glorious exit! It was nice to see Lee redeem himself. :)

Poor Kara, what a mindFrak! Looking forward to seeing how "the Kasey saga" effects her over the episodes to come, as well as Tigh over Ellen's death and his other experiences on NC. I'm glad that Ellen went out with some dignity, I hate to think of what the Colonials would have done to her. I really came to care about and understand and feel sorry for the character this season, so it was sad to see her go- never expected it to be by Tigh's hand.

And more great Admiral Adama moments, the man is God Of The Fleet!!!


Hands down BEST BSG EPISODE EVER. And possibly one of the greatest hours of science fiction television/film. Ever.

:jack_new_anime07:


Edit: Frak it, it IS one of the greatest hours of sci-fi ever. :D

[Vash]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4385/galacticadropte6wh9.gif
Amazing that it was.

[Descent]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4385/galacticadropte6wh9.gif
Amazing that it was.

Awesome. Just awesome.

I would say this whole opening arc of Season 3 is way up there on my top fave BSG episodes. Hell, it's probably at the top.

[nerus]

Is there anychance to see the moments when the peggy gets destroyed?

[daniel9]

Head Six is around when Caprica Six is around. What does this mean?

she was only around for a very brief timeonly when ehjfound the baby and thats it. and from the looks of it she isnt around any other times except when caprica six is dead. but one has to wonder just what is head six? since it isnt his conscience since she appeared in real life in that ep in the firstseason. one also has to wonder if caprica six gets head baltars like she did in downloaded.

[BSG-IS-KING]

How bad do you feel for Starbuck?

Just think you find out that you have a child of your own,then when you risk your life to save her,when you were meant to be escaping, and find out she isint her mother......
or maybe Kasey's mum is a cylon and trying to get inside Kara's head.....

Anyway,HOW COOL WAS THE GALACTICA ORBIT JUMP??????
WOW!,the best part of that show,in my opinion :)

I reckon Tigh was overcomed with shock when Hellen took the cup,i dont think he was expecting it.:(

Probably my favourite episode of BSG

[Blue Banrigh]

I got the feeling that both Tigh and Ellen knew how it was going to end.

Galactica's FTL exit in atmo is a thing of beauty. That and Pegasus' entry into the fray. Absolutely cool. Goddamit they better with the Emmy for that.

Lee and Dee's little moment also left me cold, it'll take me a lot more to convince me that their marriage isn't one of convenience. Sounds overly soap operish but I still think she married the son because she hero worships the father and wishes to share his name. She does spend a lot of time remind Lee that he is an Adama.

And for frak's sake it's telling when he refers to her as a soldier before mentioning that he's proud to have her as his wife.

[THSEX1138]

Tigh is probably one of the show's best characters. I cannot for the life of me work out why he is a 'guest star' and not in the main titles. Ditto for Aaron Douglas as well. Surley he's reached main character status - he's had more stories devoted to him that Dee has.

I really hope that they keep Tigh on as XO and don't kill him off. He's a great character, and I think he'd look even meaner with an eyepatch! ;)

BYE


You bring up the point that Michael Hogan is listed as a " Guess Star " and the last guess star I remember was named "Pegasus". No actor or ship for that matter is safe.

During this entire magical BSG series I couldn't understand why Adama turned a blind eye to Tigh's drunkenness and his reckless leadership decisions. Tigh's flawed character has been on the forefront since day one and he has never wavered in his undying loyalty to Admiral Adama. The episodes (prior to Ellen's return) where he'd stopped drinking showed a glimpse of his colonial leadership capabilities but now that Ellen is dead I foresee Tigh sinking deeper into the Ambrosia. Colonel Tigh's slapped Galen Tyrol to the ground during a drunken fit in the opening scene of "Resistance" and proclaimed "Don't talk to me like you're a soldier! You are not a soldier!" These first 4 season 3 episodes have justified Adama's tolerances of Colonel Tigh's faults and also shown in no uncertain terms that "COLONEL TIGH IS A WARRIOR" and with the exception of Admiral Adama he has no equal.

[CaraRose]

RDM thinks she knows? This guy's the producer and who know's what else fer cryin' out loud!


Actually, he probably doesn't know. I've written stories where as the author, I don't know things about my characters. In a good story, characters take on a life of their own, and sometimes they hide things even from their writer.

Does she know? I don't think there's any way to know. I think she does, personally, but its supposed to be ambigeous.

[GateShip One]

These first 4 season 3 episodes have justified Adama's tolerances of Colonel Tigh's faults and also shown in no uncertain terms that "COLONEL TIGH IS A WARRIOR" and with the exception of Admiral Adama he has no equal.

I don't think Adama would go as far as Tigh would. I couldn't see Adama leading the resistance the way Tigh did.

[wontgetfooledagain]

I don't think Adama would go as far as Tigh would. I couldn't see Adama leading the resistance the way Tigh did.
It's probably a good thing Adama wasn't on the ground. Now we shall never know if he would he would have gone that far. I wonder if Tigh was sober the whole time he was on New Caprica.

[Enzo Aquarius]

This episode was just absolutely stunning and kept me on the edge of my seat during the whole hour, especially the Galactica atmospheric jump and Pegasus ram, I literally couldn't sit down during those scenes.

When I saw the drones creating Battlestar signatures, and Sharon notifying the others of two battlestars in orbit, I absolutely laughed. I thought the advertisement had ruined the episode by stating that Lee would help Adama at the start. Totally misleading, yet great.

The CGI in this episode is amazing and I hope the episode receives some awards due to it. Plus, the thing I like about CGI battle scenes in Galactica: EVERY SINGLE object in view is doing 'something', whether it's flying around, firing or performing defensive maneuvers. If you look at battle scenes during the Dominion War arc in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, a majority of the ships stand around doing nothing. Cudos to the BSG CGI artists!

The emotions in this episode were amazing, a mix of everything:

- Ellen Tigh's death
- Roslin's need to return to Colonial One, Zarek supporting her
- Baltar's emotions, Gaeda confronting him
- Saul and Tyrol working to coordinate Resistance forces
- Adama's almost blank look after he orders for "Jump drives", Helo shaking his head.
- The crew looking on after Adama accepts the Galactica will be destroyed.
- Lee looking back at his bridge before Pegasus' destruction
- Kara stabbing Leoben, later finding out Kasey is not truthfully her child
- Baltar holding Hera, then giving her to Three
- The return of the fleet

Overall, an amazing episode! I expect next week's episode to be a bottle show :p

[wontgetfooledagain]

There's been talk of Gaeta being an "ambiguously gay" character. I think that would have potential for a storyline since gay people aren't especially known for makin' babies, ya know?

[ShadowMaat]

There's been talk of Gaeta being an "ambiguously gay" character. I think that would have potential for a storyline since gay people aren't especially known for makin' babies, ya know?

... Call from left field: Um, what?! http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/_whatthe__by_CEH.gif

[OfF3nSiV3]

there's nothing gay about gaeta

[Back40]

there's nothing gay about gaeta

Would it make a difference if he was???

[ShadowMaat]

there's nothing gay about gaeta

Except his name: GAY-ta. :D Sorry, couldn't resist.

Doesn't make any difference to me whether he's straight, gay, bi or omni. As long as he lives.

[Back40]

As long as he lives.

I'm with you there....

[Trek_Girl42]

Except his name: GAY-ta. :D Sorry, couldn't resist.

Doesn't make any difference to me whether he's straight, gay, bi or omni. As long as he lives.
Exactly.....

Really hope he survives the next ep (I worry for him), but I've come to like the character, especially since the reveal of the tatoo in Final Cut. :P

[White Knight]

There's been talk of Gaeta being an "ambiguously gay" character. I think that would have potential for a storyline since gay people aren't especially known for makin' babies, ya know?... Call from left field: Um, what?! http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/_whatthe__by_CEH.gif
I think what's being said is that it'll be interesting to see what the reaction of other main characters would be to a homosexual (not necessarily Gaeta), especially since Roslin's government is so focused on producing children to the point where she banned abortion. Since homosexuals can't normally have kids, and IVF probably isn't available...

[Trek_Girl42]

I think what's being said is that it'll be interesting to see what the reaction of other main characters would be to a homosexual (not necessarily Gaeta), especially since Roslin's government is so focused on producing children to the point where she banned abortion. Since homosexuals can't normally have kids, and IVF probably isn't available...
Good point, but I don't think Roslin would even dream of taking any action agaist homosexuals or homosexuality. It's just not her style. It would be interesting to see a gay character, just as long as he/she doesn't become the gay character.

[ShadowMaat]

I think what's being said is that it'll be interesting to see what the reaction of other main characters would be to a homosexual (not necessarily Gaeta), especially since Roslin's government is so focused on producing children to the point where she banned abortion. Since homosexuals can't normally have kids, and IVF probably isn't available...

Ooohhhh, see? That makes so much more sense now! I was trying to figure out why anyone would care if a gay guy had a kid. But I still can't see anyone having a problem with homosexuality. Repopulation IS happening, so a few non-players here and there shouldn't be a big issue.

[White Knight]

Agreed: Roslin's classier then that. But if the issue did come up and Roslin decided to take no action against said people, she might come under fire from people who support the "survival at all costs" policies she's been introducing, like the abortion ban.

[Back40]

Agreed: Roslin's classier then that. But if the issue did come up and Roslin decided to take no action against said people, she might come under fire from people who support the "survival at all costs" policies she's been introducing, like the abortion ban.

And she might come under attack from people who DIDN'T support the policies as well....

[Major Fischer]

I think there is a difference between banning abortion and preventing the birth of a child already concieved and forcing everyone in the fleet to have children or else. Homosexuality would only be an issue if the law required every adult to have at least one child. There are plenty of people in the show that are not popping out children including (menapause depending) Laura Roslin herself.

[younger]

Lee said something "thank you" b4 he left to pegasus

what is mean he thank to pegasus for what? just croius to know

[younger]

and one more thing why pegasus destoyed..she have chance to escapce but why lee ordered pegasus to ramming speed to hit one of baseship??...i want pegasus still live cazz i love see lee in commanding and lovly pegasus bridge

[Major Fischer]

and one more thing why pegasus destoyed..she have chance to escapce but why lee ordered pegasus to ramming speed to hit one of baseship??...i want pegasus still live cazz i love see lee in commanding and lovly pegasus bridge

The pegesus jump engines were down, so he couldn't have jumped her away...

... and the sets were very limited and they needed the studeo space for ... other sets.

[BSG-IS-KING]

I reckon Lee Adama said "Thank you" to Pegasus because it brought hope to the colony,helped Galactica in time of trouble,and because Lee could become a Commander of Battlestar Pegasus.

And also for Pegasus's ramming basestar scene
it was because there was not a working FTL drive,the colonists on NC could easily get away without being shot down or anything

:)

[DarkOne]

Well considering the population now is around 38-39000ish and the need to have as much genetic diversity as possible, those "Non-Participants" may need to take one or two for the team!! So to speak. Eliminate those beyond reproducing age and factoring in those that are related...they may not have enough long-term diversity to continue the species. One of my first thoughts when 50000 was the number in the beginning, was something I read long ago about a population needing around that number to genetically survive long term. Just throwing that out there>:)

[Major Fischer]

Well considering the population now is around 38-39000ish and the need to have as much genetic diversity as possible, those "Non-Participants" may need to take one or two for the team!! So to speak. Eliminate those beyond reproducing age and factoring in those that are related...they may not have enough long-term diversity to continue the species. One of my first thoughts when 50000 was the number in the beginning, was something I read long ago about a population needing around that number to genetically survive long term. Just throwing that out there>:)

For various reasons that I wont get into I've spent the last two months studying modern synthesis and evolutionary theory (I'm an enviromental geologist and historical geology is a requirement of my college major... it's more biology than rocks). 50,000 isn't an entirely unreasonable number for species survival, not even 39,000 is that dangerous despite what Baltar says. The 2,000 that were on the ships that escaped New Caprica were however well below the level of a viable genetic pool.

Genetic diversity is important, but one thing to remember is that very few of the people in the fleet are actually related to each other. Most of the time when you talk about population figures that small a certain percentage of the people are already of the same genetic stock.

[titans]

I don't think Adama would go as far as Tigh would. I couldn't see Adama leading the resistance the way Tigh did.

Nothing against Tigh but if Adama had been leading it it would'nt have been called a "resistance"...it woulda been called a Cylon Ass Kickin Party!

[Trek_Girl42]

For various reasons that I wont get into I've spent the last two months studying modern synthesis and evolutionary theory (I'm an enviromental geologist and historical geology is a requirement of my college major... it's more biology than rocks). 50,000 isn't an entirely unreasonable number for species survival, not even 39,000 is that dangerous despite what Baltar says. The 2,000 that were on the ships that escaped New Caprica were however well below the level of a viable genetic pool.

Genetic diversity is important, but one thing to remember is that very few of the people in the fleet are actually related to each other. Most of the time when you talk about population figures that small a certain percentage of the people are already of the same genetic stock.
Have to wonder when they are going to be truly adressing the issue of re-population, The Captain's Hand touched on it, but that's really only the tip of a very large ice burg. Laura can't just come out and say "okay everyone, start making babies". But who knows, we probably wouldn't have this adressed until they're closer to finding earth, as they aren't exactly in the ideal place for building up the population. But then again they might want to get going on this before numbers dwindle any lower. :S

It also then begins to beg the question, of how do they divide the people among the ships- and balancing the age/gender ratio evenly, if they lose one ship and that ship happens to have the most women of child bearing age on it, or the most younger children, then they are really screwed. :S

[Major Fischer]

It also then begins to beg the question, of how do they divide the people among the ships- and balancing the age/gender ratio evenly, if they lose one ship and that ship happens to have the most women of child bearing age on it, or the most younger children, then they are really screwed. :S

There is another complicating factor (well, several, but), and that's the carrying capacity of the fleet. They have a limit on space and resources and indescriminate... "repopulating" without taking into account how factors like how many people they can realistically feed, or how many people you can pack into a ship without fostering disease. Just imagin what a plague on one of those ships would be like. Some of the most nightmarish sceneros of the 1918 Flu Pandemic were soldiers on ships returning from World War I. There are stories of entire ships full hundreds of dying men washing up on rocks.

[Trek_Girl42]

There is another complicating factor (well, several, but), and that's the carrying capacity of the fleet. They have a limit on space and resources and indescriminate... "repopulating" without taking into account how factors like how many people they can realistically feed, or how many people you can pack into a ship without fostering disease. Just imagin what a plague on one of those ships would be like. Some of the most nightmarish sceneros of the 1918 Flu Pandemic were soldiers on ships returning from World War I. There are stories of entire ships full hundreds of dying men washing up on rocks.
Couldn't even imagine how horrible that would be- any outbreak of disease would be disasterous for them since anti-biotics are limited. Re-population would be a great "main" issue for season four/five, and adressing all teh issues that come with it- do they restrict women in the military so that they can have babies while not running out of pilots, etc? But it really is a balancing act, even currently they have to be thinking about population distribution, so when they start to repopulate, they can't go "oops, a large percentage of women died because they were on the same group of ships that didn't make it". Thinking even of the destruction of cloud nine, one has to wonder what demographics of people were taken out when those ships blew.

[Selin Peers]

I'm really currious what the new population figures for the season are. Must have been cut down to like 33,000 or something after Cloud Nine, and the Cylons probably took it even further, to like 29,000.

[Major Fischer]

I'm really currious what the new population figures for the season are. Must have been cut down to like 33,000 or something after Cloud Nine, and the Cylons probably took it even further, to like 29,000.

Most of the figures we've heard for the people on New Caprica were around 39,000 and there were 2,000 people on the ships that escaped. I would guess that they probably lost as many as 2,000 people in the exodus.... so I don't think we're down as far as your figures, but the mid 35,000s wouldn't surprise me.

[giblet_solution]

Not much I can add that hasn't been said already, yet I feel the need to post just in case the show's makers read this or someone who is not a fan of the show may be reading. Now onto the episode.

First of all, that was the first time that I ever remember when I actually got goosebumps from watching a tv show (or movie for that matter). This episode (and show in general) is EXACTLY what I want to watch, it just could not be any better. I originally checked out the show because I was a fan of the original series (I'm 36) and It hooked me instantly. You frequently hear that this is "the best show on tv" and I agree totally with that assesment. Here are what I considered the highlights of the episode (pretty much the same as everyone else)

1) Starbuck shoving the knife into the cylon b#$tard.
2) The Col. Tigh poisoning his wife part.
3) Of course, the Galactica jumping into the atmosphere and all of the awsome special effects around that.
4) I loved the second guessing whether the pegasus would jump back to help, I saw the commercials where they showed the "2 battlestars have jumped into orbit" but when the show progressed and it was drones that caused it, then I really didn't know how it would pan out.
5) The scene where galactica is being attacked and goes off into the distance, especially the sound effects and how you get the feeling of the cold vastness of outer space and how tiny and insignificant the ships are only to see the missiles firing from the pegasus and it suddenly fill the screen. WOW, I just got goosebumps again just describing it.

Overall the episode is a perfect 10/10, I tend to prefer action over drama in episodes and this one delivered both in just the right amounts.

[Major Fischer]

Couldn't even imagine how horrible that would be- any outbreak of disease would be disasterous for them since anti-biotics are limited.

Not to mention a closed enviroment where they can't shut down the circulation of the air. In the 1918 Flu Pandemic most medical historians believe that the disease started to spred from an army camp in the midwest and incubated on overcrowded troop ships and in the poor hygene of the trenches before crossing back to the US and ravaging the country.

[DarkOne]

Not to get gross.....but perhaps the medical staff might need to "Acquire" donations from child bearing population(male and female) and store them for future use. This would at least maintain a level of diversity and allow those that may still yet die, a chance to procreate...so to speak.

[Major Fischer]

Not to get gross.....but perhaps the medical staff might need to "Acquire" donations from child bearing population(male and female) and store them for future use. This would at least maintain a level of diversity and allow those that may still yet die, a chance to procreate...so to speak.

And probably kept on different ships. Sort of ... genetic libraries with sperm and egg.

[Zamboni]

Regarding population increase, I doubt they would even return to the ~50,000 back in season one by the end of their journey. I don't think resource is that big a problem. If anything, they should have more now since they've a) lost a bunch of ppl in the nuke explosion and b) gathered stuff from new caprica.

[Enzo Aquarius]

Resources are going to be a major problem on the contrary. The fleet, prior to arrival at New Caprica, already had a resource problem - food, medicine, etc.

When the fleet left New Caprica, it was in a huge rush to get the operational ships up and running while saving as many individuals as possible. When people were running to their ships, the last thing they were thinking of was taking belongings, they only things they probably had were guns :p

Additionally, I doubt they returned to New Caprica, or will be anytime soon. The area is just too dangerous, especially for the state Galactica is in. I do see, however, a Raptor or two returning to check on the planet's status and to possibly get survivors.

[Selin Peers]

Most of the figures we've heard for the people on New Caprica were around 39,000 and there were 2,000 people on the ships that escaped. I would guess that they probably lost as many as 2,000 people in the exodus.... so I don't think we're down as far as your figures, but the mid 35,000s wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah, 39,000~ durring LDYB2. But Cloud 9 being vaporized with all the surrounding ships had to have taken out ATLEAST 4,000, I'd say 6,000 easily because Cloud 9 was one of the largest civies and it had several passenger liners in close proximity to it too which were also vaporized.

[Major Fischer]

Yeah, 39,000~ durring LDYB2. But Cloud 9 being vaporized with all the surrounding ships had to have taken out ATLEAST 4,000, I'd say 6,000 easily because Cloud 9 was one of the largest civies and it had several passenger liners in close proximity to it too which were also vaporized.

49,579 at the beginning of Lay Down Your Burdens according to the opening credits. Cloud 9 probably took 10,000 people with her which is why the figure floating around is 39,000 people on New Caprica.

[Trek_Girl42]

Not to get gross.....but perhaps the medical staff might need to "Acquire" donations from child bearing population(male and female) and store them for future use. This would at least maintain a level of diversity and allow those that may still yet die, a chance to procreate...so to speak.
The problem of space still comes up. If it comes down to re-building the population while travelling in those ships, where do they incubate these "test tube" babies. They probably don't even have the technology to do so, unless they kept sperm and egg samples from those who die for implantation in women to carry to term, just in order to keep the genetic diversity or whatever. (is that possible, or would the carrier still be passing on their genes?)

[younger]

I see it dat pegasus had jump drive were down..he have no choice to destoryed the pegasus..sigh so what happened to lee? his Promote Commander but Pegasus is Destoyed so what lee going do?

[Enzo Aquarius]

He's going to serve on Galactica now, probably as some senior officer. He may return as a military liaison to the civilian ships, there's also the possibility he may be XO in place of Tigh. We'll find out next week ;)

[White Knight]

Since Apollo and Roslin get along so well, maybe he'll get a permenant military posting on her staff?

[IMAX]

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4385/galacticadropte6wh9.gif
Amazing that it was.
You wouldn't happen to have that whole sequence in a .gif would you?
You know, Prep For Turbulence - Jump In - Deploy - Jump Out, letting it run a little further past
this one? If so it would be SO GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

[Xenocide]

And probably kept on different ships. Sort of ... genetic libraries with sperm and egg.

You wouldn't want those ships to fall into cylon hands, thats exactly what they want.

[Trek_Girl42]

You wouldn't want those ships to fall into cylon hands, thats exactly what they want.
Now there's a frakkin' scary thought..... :eek:

[SoulReaver]

One of my first thoughts when 50000 was the number in the beginning, was something I read long ago about a population needing around that number to genetically survive long term. Just throwing that out there>:)strange, according to another TV program (wuz about long term space travel ie. over several generations) some NASA scientist estimated that number to be around a mere 100 (or maybe 200 I can't remember) :o

[SoulReaver]

Laura can't just come out and say "okay everyone, start making babies"hehe - reminds me of the miniseries, when Adam is watching Billy & Dualla and (repeating Roslin's words) says to himself "they better start making babies"
The others hear it & Tigh asks him "is that an order?"
ROFL

[Major Fischer]

strange, according to another TV program (wuz about long term space travel ie. over several generations) some NASA scientist estimated that number to be around a mere 100 (or maybe 200 I can't remember) :o

Exactly, though the "dying out" number is a bit different from the "healthy species number." Either way, Baltar was lying through his teeth to Roslin when he said that they were already below it.

[Trek_Girl42]

hehe - reminds me of the miniseries, when Adam is watching Billy & Dualla and (repeating Roslin's words) says to himself "they better start making babies"
The others hear it & Tigh asks him "is that an order?"
ROFL
LMAO.....still one of the best moments of the entire series..... :P

[Descent]

Anyone else notice Anders says "God damn it" to Starbuck instead of "Gods damn it". :P

A goof or was it intentional?

[Trek_Girl42]

Anyone else notice Anders says "God damn it" to Starbuck instead of "Gods damn it". :P

A goof or was it intentional?
Probably a goof.....but let the conspiracy theorists have their fun. :P

[SoulReaver]

4 frak's sake, can't humans & cylon humans just accept Origin? that'd make things so much simpler I say :doci10:

[OfF3nSiV3]

i don't think this has been discussed yet, but was that galactica sharon telling the other cylons that 2 battlestars jumped into orbit?