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    Plot Holes :D

    I, being a complete dork and uber Stargate fan, have built up a deep and powerful anger towards these plot holes that I can't fill. I decided to list them here to see if there are any answers to the horror that I face.

    1. Humans as we know them have been around for maybe 40,000 years or so (feel free to correct me .) We have suffered all kinds of diseases, fought wars, fallen prey to nature, etc...and yet here we are with a mere six billion population.
    The Ancients, however, were in the Pegasus galaxy for millions of years, had no wars (pre-wraith,) and with their technology, I seriously doubt they were killed by disease or plague, etc. Millions of years>40,000 years. Shouldn't they have had trillions of population? Not to mention the worlds they made...they would all be more advanced than the Asgard, who have only had efficient space travel for 30,000 years or so. The worlds they made should've been amazing. Still, the Wraith, whom the Ancients created accidently (in theory,) managed to outnumber the Ancients, defeat them and their ability to make zpms at will, and feed on the should-be extremely advanced civilizations created by the Ancients. Ummm, any answers to fill the hole would be appreciated .

    2. The Ori can harness the energy of a black hole, but find the pathetic amounts of energy in humans more empowering? Excluding that, they are the Ori. Why not just making clones? They have galaxies at their disposal, make trillions of clones who are brainwashed to worship them. Wow, they just gained enough power to whoop the Ancients. Oh yeah, and wouldn't ascending the Ori followers give them more power? On the ascended realm, power is in numbers (and apparently human followers.) If you outnumbered your enemy 10 to 1, I'm pretty sure you'd whoop them. Plus the ascended beings they made could also be brainwashed so that theyd do anything the real Ori wanted. There are more but my hands hurt. .

    I like donuts and good rep . P.S. If you send me good rep, I send it back . If you send me Donuts...I'll...umm...*Silence*

    #2
    Originally posted by hungrytrash
    I, being a complete dork and uber Stargate fan, have built up a deep and powerful anger towards these plot holes that I can't fill. I decided to list them here to see if there are any answers to the horror that I face.

    1. Humans as we know them have been around for maybe 40,000 years or so (feel free to correct me .) We have suffered all kinds of diseases, fought wars, fallen prey to nature, etc...and yet here we are with a mere six billion population.
    The Ancients, however, were in the Pegasus galaxy for millions of years, had no wars (pre-wraith,) and with their technology, I seriously doubt they were killed by disease or plague, etc. Millions of years>40,000 years. Shouldn't they have had trillions of population? Not to mention the worlds they made...they would all be more advanced than the Asgard, who have only had efficient space travel for 30,000 years or so. The worlds they made should've been amazing. Still, the Wraith, whom the Ancients created accidently (in theory,) managed to outnumber the Ancients, defeat them and their ability to make zpms at will, and feed on the should-be extremely advanced civilizations created by the Ancients. Ummm, any answers to fill the hole would be appreciated .
    Well, hhere's the thing. At the time that they found the Wraith, the Ancients were still exploring the Pegasus galaxy. They were still in the colonizing phase. In addition, they fled to the Pegasus galaxy for the purpose of escapingthe plague that was wiping them out. Not a lot of them got to leave. So, when we say outnumbered, we mean really outnumbered. Sheer #s can defeat overwhelming technology. There were probably many more wraith than there are now, as what most likely happened was the following: overwhelming #s of wraith defeat Ancients. ancients leave. Big # of wraith lack food. Lots of wraith die. Remaining wraith decide to go in to hibernation to wait for more food.



    2. The Ori can harness the energy of a black hole, but find the pathetic amounts of energy in humans more empowering? Excluding that, they are the Ori. Why not just making clones? They have galaxies at their disposal, make trillions of clones who are brainwashed to worship them. Wow, they just gained enough power to whoop the Ancients. Oh yeah, and wouldn't ascending the Ori followers give them more power? On the ascended realm, power is in numbers (and apparently human followers.) If you outnumbered your enemy 10 to 1, I'm pretty sure you'd whoop them. Plus the ascended beings they made could also be brainwashed so that theyd do anything the real Ori wanted. There are more but my hands hurt. .
    The energy of a black hole has no implicatiions for the ascended realm. The power of devotion has some kind of energy transfer that bolsters the power of an ascended being. An ascneded being cant suck energy from a black hole. It may give them a little more energy to do something, but most likely the worship of someone boost the capabilities of an Ori instead of just giving sheer energy.
    Simple reason for not ascennding followers:1) The Ori do not want to share power. 2) If a follower of Origin gets up to the ascended realm and finds out the ori are all hocus pocus and not really gods, it wont be pretty.
    As for your clone theory, I can't think of any reason why it would not work. Maybe cloning does something that makes it impossible for the transfer of power to the Ori, something that is exclusive to normal reproduction.

    Either way, most of your points are not plotholes.

    Comment


      #3
      1. Keyword being brainwashed ascended beings. They wouldn't be sharing the power, they would be adding to their power.

      2. Even if two ancients left the milky way, it would still be enough to ridiculously outnumber the Wraith (it takes time for the wraith to evolve, AND gain a high level of technology. How would they outnumber the Ancients were there populating WAY before?)...and Orlin said it was purely an energy transfer...biological life forms would have no reason to provide a different energy than a black hole. Besides, at the very least, they could make replicators to do it...if they can ascend, I'm sure they can transfer energy .

      3. Oh yeah, and sheer numbers CAN'T defeat overwhelming technology.
      Atlantis could survive for days by the bombardment of multiple hiveships on ONE zpm. If they can make them at will, put three on a ship and you are invincible?

      I like donuts and good rep . P.S. If you send me good rep, I send it back . If you send me Donuts...I'll...umm...*Silence*

      Comment


        #4
        oki... if Ancients were just colonizing PG, and Wraith came to life as accident, how did they grow is such large numbers? where did they feed?.... let's say there were few thousend colonists on planet where Wraith originated.... from where did those overwhelming numbers come?

        i mean, you bloody notice that some mutants popped up on one of your colonies and killed everybody... and when you notice that, you at least carantine the planet, so how could Wraith get their numbers and where the hell did they get their technology?

        IMO, there are gaping holes.

        As for Ancients and MW... whole Ori thing totally changed what was mantra for first 8 seasons. Ancients now simply do NOT belong in Earth's evolution, Earth isn't "first world" (since they came from another galaxy) and how to hell did humans evolve on Earth AFTER it was colonized by aliens (Ancients).
        It would make so much more sense if they made Ori those that left highly advanced civilazation due to their strickt religion and started over in other part of universe (that could have happened 50+ mil years ago) and Ori would have nuff time to create whole galaxies of worshippers (and that device was ONLY thing they kept - by accident maybe)....
        This whole "Ancients coming from other side of universe" is acctually going against everything that was said about Ancients in 8 seasons... and makes no sense at all....

        BLAH....
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        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hungrytrash
          1. Keyword being brainwashed ascended beings. They wouldn't be sharing the power, they would be adding to their power.
          ok.... HOW can you brainwash ascended being? on that plane their followers would notice that there are few things that weren't told them before. Only reason why they might follow Ori would be if they were thankfull for ascension.

          Only reason why Ori do not ascend their followers is that they might find out what was going on and decide to switch.... so you have group of powerful religious zealots not willing to share power out of fear their own followers might turn against them when they find out truth... i can buy that... that is even pretty good....

          my only problem is (as mentioned in previous post) why didn't they make Ori as small number of religious zealots that left MW and used their power to create life (as Ancients did in MW), so they can rule as their gods - that would be completlly in line with all previous seasons.... and given 50 or more million years it would be enough for Ori to create lots of followers, use their worshipping as power and plan to get back and show those tech-freaks what real religion is.... MUCH BETTER and MUCH MORE fitting in everything that was ever said in first 8 seasons....
          VISIT AND JOIN


          Comment


            #6
            This is probably going to be a very long post but yeah, I've brought up a couple of the things you mentioned several times as well, namely the whole 'sheer numbers' advantage that the Wraith had.

            Personally, I find it impossible that the entire Wraith fleet only consists of 60 Hiveships (give or take) and the accompanying cruisers, as this would place their total population at several million tops, which was the average Jaffa population on a single fairly densely populated world in the Milky Way. Someone I debated with insisted that this holds true, as the Ancients' total population only numbered several tens of thousands to half a million at most hence several million Wraith were more than enough to overwhelm them, which I find to be ridiculous considering the fact that they'd been around for so long and were a multi-galactic spanning empire. The same person also said that Atlantis carried the entire Ancient population over to the Pegasus Galaxy, which I find unbelievable as there'd have been no one left to hold the fort in the Milky Way, unless they'd completely decided to abandon it.

            In order for the numbers advantage to work I'd probably say that the Wraith would need to have had at least several thousand Hiveships at the bare minimum. It'd be weird for the Wraith's entire fleet to comprise 60 or so Hiveships and several hundred cruisers, even the combined Goa'uld Ha'tak fleets would've outnumbered them at least 5 to 1 (once again, the person I debated with insisted that the Goa'uld never had more than a few hundred Ha'taks even at their peak, which is inconsistent with the evidence shown throughout SG-1). If that was the case, Atlantis should just allow the Wraith to reach the Milky Way, the Tau'ri and her allies (eg. Free Jaffa Nations, Asgard, etc) would deal with them in relatively short order compared to what they themselves have to contend with (Ori).

            Oh, and regarding the superior numbers overwhelming superior technology strategy, it has happened a number of times in other sci-fi sagas such as Warhammer 40k (the insectoid Tyranids vs. the Imperium of Man) and Starcraft (Zerg vs. Protoss, Terrans and even the Xel'Naga). The war wasn't won immediately, but the Wraith eventually did wear down the Ancients by just throwing countless waves in rapid succession at them. Remember that the recording of the first siege of Atlantis showed an entire armada of Hiveships surrounding Lantea. The moment the whole lot of them got destroyed, a similar-sized armada arrived shortly after to continue the siege. I'm sure the same thing happened throughout the rest of the galaxy. Even with the Ancient's superior technology (and that's not putting down the Wraith, their own tech is pretty advanced), being trapped on their respective worlds would've eventually depleted their resources, allowing the Wraith to them overwhelm their defenses after a prolonged and continuous assault. Remember that the war lasted roughly 100 years, and ZPMs don't exactly grow on trees. If 10 or so Hiveships could deplete a ZPM-powered shield in 3-4 days through continuous firing, imagine what a much larger fleet could do, especially if it laid siege to Atlantis for months or even years (by which time they'd likely have run out of the necessary materials to construct more ZPMs).

            Comment


              #7
              Regarding the Ancients succumbing to a plague, bear in mind that while the Ancients might've been around for tens of millions or even a few hundred million years, it's been theorized that the microorganisms on Earth alone have been around for at least several billion, and have shown to be constantly evolving (not to mention incredibly resilient). Even with the Ancient's superior physiology, I'm sure the Ori might've been able to modify the appropriate virus strain (since the Ori and Ancients have shown to be masters of biotechnology) to be incredibly virulent and lethal to the Ancients. It probably hit them so hard galaxy-wide and mutated at such an accelerated rate that the Ancients weren't able to find a way to effectively combat the illness short of ascending.

              And as for the Ori's followers further fuelling their power, I believe this delves into more spiritual/cosmic aspects and can't purely be explained by science like fission, black holes and ZPMs. I believe the writers might've taken a cue from certain literature like The Sandman and Lucifer comics (published by Vertigo and highly recommended reading IMO) or even The Discworld series of comic fantasy novels by Terry Pratchet where many deities are revealed to be directly powered by the amount of belief in them. The more followers they have who genuinely worship them, the stronger they get but if all the mere mortals ignore them, they get considerably weakened and some even fade away to nothing more than a shadow or whisper.

              Comment


                #8
                the lanteans didt sink atlantis and go god knows where because sherr numbers could defeat them. it was said that atlantis could win every battle that took place. but when they destroyed 5 hives, 10 came and so on....it was without ending and thats why they left. they were probbably sick of fighting the wraith every single day. and the popoulation of the city and resources are limited.

                hope that fills this hole.
                sigpic

                Comment


                  #9
                  When the Ancients traveled to the Milky Way in the first place I'm betting living on a ship limited how much they could grow. You're on a ship for several thousand years... you probably get in the habit of restraint. Then there's the issue of ideal poplation to balance environment which they had to know how to do. Starting over, knowing better, they wouldn't make the same mistakes we have. Living longer and choosing to have less children yadda yadda yadda

                  Even if the Ancients had superior numbers to the Wraith, and it's possible they did, all that mattered is that they would also need to have battle ships in numbers that reflected their population (but they had no reason to build massive amounts). Even if the Wraith had less people, as long as they had more ships and enough people to fly them... they would win.

                  As for why the Ori don't clone and brainwash a bunch of worshippers I think it's like this.... there's this theory that the human mind(s) shapes and controls the world around us ie. we have enormous power over any sitatution and if we believe something strongly enough we can essentially make it real. They showed this in Epiphany.
                  The Ori likely gain power from the belief their followers have that they are powerful. In order for this to work, their followers' belief must be absolute, without doubt and on a massive scale... hence the crusading and killing of unbelievers. They can't brainwash you to do this because then you don't truly "believe" it, you're just following orders and that gets them nowhere.

                  "You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea." - Jack Handy

                  Comment


                    #10
                    A big plot hole I've always been bothered by is the fact that they kept the Stargate hooked up to a powersource so that Apophis could dial in in "Children of the Gods".

                    What would possess them to do such a thing, thinking Jack had nuked Abydos, the apparent only other gate in existence?



                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think they believed that Ra was supposed to have been the last of his kind, as was implied in the movie. With him dead, there wouldn't be anyone else left to threaten Earth. Or so they thought.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by FallenAngelII
                        A big plot hole I've always been bothered by is the fact that they kept the Stargate hooked up to a powersource so that Apophis could dial in in "Children of the Gods".

                        What would possess them to do such a thing, thinking Jack had nuked Abydos, the apparent only other gate in existence?
                        I believe the gate that dials in is the one that powers the connection... otherwise Earth could Dial Atlantis and have them pick up the power tab. Also the reason for the Iris. They can't stop an incoming connection even by turning off the power. They didn't know enough about the whole process at the time to realize that.

                        "You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea." - Jack Handy

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MarshAngel
                          I believe the gate that dials in is the one that powers the connection... otherwise Earth could Dial Atlantis and have them pick up the power tab. Also the reason for the Iris. They can't stop an incoming connection even by turning off the power. They didn't know enough about the whole process at the time to realize that.
                          I thought so too, but there's gotta be something powering the gate with the incoming wormhole. I mean, you can't dial someone's cellphone if it's dead. There's gotta be something keeping it alive to receive the incoming wormhole.

                          Or maybe the Ancients were able to bypass them because they're that good!



                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by FallenAngelII
                            I thought so too, but there's gotta be something powering the gate with the incoming wormhole. I mean, you can't dial someone's cellphone if it's dead. There's gotta be something keeping it alive to receive the incoming wormhole.

                            Or maybe the Ancients were able to bypass them because they're that good!
                            that would be logical but in the world of Stargate not necessarily true. The gate stores power from any and all available sources so a connection from another gate is all the power necessary.

                            "You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea." - Jack Handy

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hey , why do it the easy way when you can do it the hard way...

                              Sitting around all day eating pancakes is gonna bore you over a few million years, so why not conquer a galaxy for a change

                              And the Ancients did birth control

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