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LordAnubis
August 11th, 2004, 07:34 PM
I know this is probably going to be viewed as a stupid question, but do you really think extraterrestrial life exists? If it does, is it advanced? More advanced than us, or similar to us? What are your thoughts? I don't think that we can be alone out there. Of the sci-fi series and shows I've seen, the ones that show alien planets and life forms that are vastly different from earth-based life are the most interesting.

Faith
August 11th, 2004, 07:46 PM
I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won't get into why, but yes there is life out there and it is more advanced than us both technologicaly and emotionaly. I know my spelling is awful LOL

LordAnubis
August 11th, 2004, 08:04 PM
I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won't get into why, but yes there is life out there and it is more advanced than us both technologicaly and emotionaly. I know my spelling is awful LOL
It seems like you know more than you're telling? Are you one? Do you know something? :)

Jprime
August 11th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Well as the dude in Contact said, "if there's noone else out there, its a whole lot of empty space."

It would be a bit on the naive and arrogant side to suggest that out of hundreds of millions of suitable suns and m class planets, only ONE managed to spawn life.

Or would it?

In the book Natures Destiny, compelling data is presented indicating that the end goal of the universe is to produce humanity.

It is my personal theory that the end goal of the universe is to produce a being capable of creating it. A bit of a temporal paradox, but consistant with current theory. Anyone interested in the complete theory can PM me.

I for one DO believe in extraterrestrial life, intelligent or not.

Mio
August 11th, 2004, 10:15 PM
As they said in 'Sphere', in all probability, anything out there would be so different from us that communication would be completely impossible.

MartoufMarty
August 11th, 2004, 11:16 PM
i didn't really like that movie Contact... don't get me wrong, it was okay, just not... great...

i do believe there are aliens. infact, i am one of them myself.

:P

one time i was very hyper and i came up with big conspiracy of aliens being disguised as Xerox machines and planning on taking over the world...

*backs away slowly*

Supreme Commander Thor
August 11th, 2004, 11:31 PM
i do believe there are aliens. infact, i am one of them myself.
Me too. I have been watching you earthlings for about 4 million years now... you guys haven't progressed much.

MartoufMarty
August 11th, 2004, 11:43 PM
Me too. I have been watching you earthlings for about 4 million years now... you guys haven't progressed much.
hehehehe

and who said this thread was gonna sound stupid?

*taser*

ibwolf
August 12th, 2004, 01:41 AM
Given the immense size of the universe it feels very presumptious of us to assume that our little rock is the only one to develope life.

There are more stars in the universe then there are grains of sand on all the beaches of this world!!! Surely at least one other star has a planet where life has evolved. It's a matter of statistics. We know that the probability of like being created is greater then zero (or we would not exist), so given the size of the universe the odds of it only happening once are quite small, not impossible but small.

Having said that I do want to make it clear that I don't believe aliens have visited us or any other 'conspiracy' theory. The same immense size of the universe that makes alien life so probable also serves to isolate us from it.

trinity1013
August 12th, 2004, 02:28 AM
I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to believe. ;)

Yeah, I believe that there's intelligent life other than us in the universe. As ibwolf, I also have to stress that I believe in the theoretical possibility. I don't believe they're here.
In my experience, most people do believe in the possibility that there's something somewhere out there, it's only very religious people who believe we are God's only creation.

As they haven't paid us a visit yet, I'd say they're either less advanced than/on the same level we are or are too advanced to bother about our backward little planet.

ibwolf
August 12th, 2004, 02:42 AM
As they haven't paid us a visit yet, I'd say they're either less advanced than/on the same level we are or are too advanced to bother about our backward little planet.

Oh, I wouldn't rule out there being a race out there much more advanced then us. It's just a matter of 'needle in a heystack'. The odds of encounter (even assuming they have faster then light travel which is a big assumption) are very small.

trinity1013
August 12th, 2004, 02:49 AM
Oh, I wouldn't rule out there being a race out there much more advanced then us. It's just a matter of 'needle in a heystack'. The odds of encounter (even assuming they have faster then light travel which is a big assumption) are very small.

Yeah, you're right, there's just too much space in outer space. :D

And even if they found the needle, i.e. us, there's still the question of whether they'd be more like the Asgard or more like the Goa'uld.

Muldy_SG1
August 12th, 2004, 03:02 AM
I heard an interesting theory once, that there is life out there - but no species has ever managed to develope far enough to have interplanetary travel or communication due to them destroying themselves before they managed to do so...

But of course I still like to believe there are aliens called Goa'uld who spread humans all around the galaxy...*grins* Like cattle...

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 03:30 AM
It is my personal theory that the end goal of the universe is to produce a being capable of creating it. A bit of a temporal paradox, but consistant with current theory. Anyone interested in the complete theory can PM me.

I for one DO believe in extraterrestrial life, intelligent or not.


Fascinating. I too believe that ultimately the universe will give rise to a race of beings that will have the power of gods, the power of creation.

Whether they will be the descendants of humanity, or of another life form. Who knows. God created us humans in his image. No, I would say that humanity created God in our image. The power of creation, the power of God.

One day humanity will learn to sail among the stars. I really wish that I can see that day with my own eyes, the sunrise on a different world, of a different time.

Vala
August 12th, 2004, 03:31 AM
While I think there probably is some form of non terrestrial life out there in the vastness of space. I do not believe that the aliens would in anyway be interested in our tiny un important planet. Even though we think we are all important LOL. But I am betting if there are aliens they'd be roughly at our level of technology, not all advanced as on TV and in the movies.

trinity1013
August 12th, 2004, 03:35 AM
Fascinating. I too believe that ultimately the universe will give rise to a race of beings that will have the power of gods, the power of creation.
We do have that power. It's called procreation. ;)

ibwolf
August 12th, 2004, 03:40 AM
While I think there probably is some form of non terrestrial life out there in the vastness of space. I do not believe that the aliens would in anyway be interested in our tiny un important planet. Even though we think we are all important LOL.

It depends on so many factors. If life is reasonably rare then any life giving planet would merit some serious attention (even ones without intelligent life). If that is the case any aliens would be quite interested in us (assuming that they could find us which is a whole other discussion).


But I am betting if there are aliens they'd be roughly at our level of technology, not all advanced as on TV and in the movies.

No reason to assume that. The conditions for our evolution have existed on earth for a few million years (in theory we could have evolved at the same time as the dinosaurs, but evolution chose reptiles for dominence then). So there is nothing to preclude the rise of intelligent life elsewhere in our galaxy as far back as 60-100 million years ago. If that happened they would almost certainly be way more advanced then us (if not extinct).

Even looking at things a bit more narrowly. If humanity had started to create civilizations just 10,000 years earlier (a blink of an eye as far as the universe is concerned) just think where we would be today!

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 03:50 AM
We do have that power. It's called procreation. ;)

Since time immemorial Man has yearned for the power of God, the power to create, in his own fashion and image. The power of creation.

How many lives have been sacrificed in pursuit of this power. How many stars have witnessed the rise and the fall of her children in pursuit of this dream.

The power of creation, to shape the universe in your own fashion and your image. Mere mortals cannot even begin to comprehend this power.

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 05:54 AM
I believe it's out there. It's too vast not to. Besides, if we were all that there was...well then creation would be rather dissapointing. Wouldnt you say?

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 05:57 AM
Curious, the Aschen mind and the Goul'd mind think alike in many respects. The supreme council of the systemlords must begin to draft plans to assimilate the Aschens. :D

Resistance is futile! ;)

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 06:01 AM
Assimilate? This isn't ST ya know.

aAnubiSs
August 12th, 2004, 06:05 AM
I'm 100% sure we aren't alone. I'm also sure some on this forum are aliens :D

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 06:08 AM
I'm 100% sure we aren't alone. I'm also sure some on this forum are aliens :D
DON'T BLOW MY COVER...

VirtualCLD
August 12th, 2004, 06:09 AM
DON'T BLOW MY COVER...
LOL!

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 06:17 AM
Darn it, I thought I covered my tracks pretty thoroughly! :D

aAnubiSs
August 12th, 2004, 06:55 AM
OK I PROMiSE ASCHEN!

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 07:46 AM
You're a good man. :)

Mio
August 12th, 2004, 07:54 AM
aAnubiSs may be a good man, but I've already tipped off the feds.

Jprime
August 12th, 2004, 08:09 AM
Me too. I have been watching you earthlings for about 4 million years now... you guys haven't progressed much.

Erm, Thro buddy I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but we HAVEN'T been here for 4 million years. We're quite young in an evolutionary sense.

Larry
August 12th, 2004, 08:25 AM
An interesting question of course. All I know is that I wish I could get inside that little Air Force base out in Nevada that officially doesn't exist and just see what kind of stuff they've got in there.

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 08:29 AM
aAnubiSs may be a good man, but I've already tipped off the feds.
How could you??? :S

aAnubiSs
August 12th, 2004, 08:52 AM
Curse you Mio. Forcing me to use my ascended powers to remove the feds.

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 08:56 AM
I think I'm going to ride the spiral, ascend and bully you around on higher planes of existance. :D

Faith
August 12th, 2004, 09:30 AM
It seems like you know more than you're telling? Are you one? Do you know something? :)


Well, I will tell my story a brief story. When I was in 9th grade I was standing outside at night waiting on some friends to come and pick me up. I was looking at the stars and all of sudden there was this thing that just hovered for about 20 seconds then it took off upwards into the sky. This is one reason I beleive there is something outthere. Now only If I colud get acsses into the base in Nevada I might get some proof. I do believe some of our technology has come from other beings. Maybe I am just psychotic. I mean I am on certains meds but we will not go there. :eek: I just will live in my own little world til our goverment tells us the truth.

My mother has always said I was born 100 years before my time. ;)

Mio
August 12th, 2004, 09:43 AM
Ever seen ball lightning? It's truely amazing.

Jprime
August 12th, 2004, 10:00 AM
Yes I would definitely believe area 51 has something alien there. Didnt the stealthbomber come out of there? Russian satellite pictures of the groom lake area (theres no lake) over a period of 10-15 years shows the construction of various runways and pentagon shaped hangars. I mean, nobody whos seen the autopsy tape can take it seriously, but I sincerely believe something happend at roswell, and it is directly linked to the secret creation of the stealthbomber, as well as project aurora (and backstep ;) ).

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Area 51 doesn't even exist. :O That's what our gov't says..and you should believe them...because they're very honest people. :D

Faith
August 12th, 2004, 10:08 AM
I have to say you all are my KIND OF PEOPLE!!!!!! I live in a backwoods section of Georgia and people here are just so.....Hmmmm...I can't think of a word to describe them.

In other words "I LIKE YOU GUYS N GALS!!!"

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Awww. Thats kinda cute <3

VirtualCLD
August 12th, 2004, 10:21 AM
I mean, nobody whos seen the autopsy tape can take it seriously, but I sincerely believe something happend at roswell, and it is directly linked to the secret creation of the stealthbomber, as well as project aurora (and backstep ;) ).

Hehe, "project backstep." I like that show. I thought it was funny seeing the two actors who played main characters on Seaquest DSV on that show as well.


On a more on-topic note, I do believe there is intelligent life somewhere in the universe (I mean, they've avoided making regular, direct contact with us so they can't be that dumb). However, I think area 51 is just another test facility like all of the other secret area # bases out there. Area 51 is the most infmaous, but there are plenty of other facilities just like it. I don't believe there is any aliens or alien tech there, just advanced technology. There's nothing so advanced with the SR-71 or F-117 or B-2 bomber that we couldn't have come up with on our own. They just test brand prototype plane designs out there, that's all. Some of them seem way ahead of it's time, but that's the point. We didn't know about the SR-71 or the F-117 until over a decade or more from when they were testing it. Remember, the Nazis had their own stealth tech and B-2 look-alike concept around and that was in the early 1940's.

Posherella
August 12th, 2004, 11:32 AM
I've read through this thread and every single person seems to believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Therefore, I thought I'd offer a different viewpoint. As this viewpoint has to do with God, I hope I'm not kicked from here to Egypt for bringing it up.

If you subscribe to the Big Bang theory and believe that everything created in the universe stems from that, then you almost have to believe in life on other planets. It's just illogical not to.

As far as the Creation theory goes, I think it would be difficult to believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Especially for Jewish and Christian based religions.

If God created several Adams and Eves on other planets, why did Satan choose to try to mislead only Earth? If only the pair on Earth sinned, God would have perfect beings on the other planets and simply wipe out Adam and Eve on Earth completely as there's no need to give humankind a second chance. If, for the sake of argument, there are several "Satans" trying to mislead humans on the other planets and they all succeeded in making the original pair sin, I personally think God would scrap his plans of humans at that point or perhaps wipe out all but one planet and decide to give humankind a second chance on one planet before attempting other planets.

I could go into this more in depth, but I think it gives a basic summary. I find it difficult to believe in the God of the Bible and still believe in intelligent life on other planets.

As far as my own theory goes on why there's all this extra space, I believe God intended humankind to continue in a perfect manner forever. I think God's intent was for people to move on to populate the universe once Earth was full (and since the Earth isn't supposed to be covered with all this water [the water canopy in pre-Noah days held the majority of water] - it would take a LOT of people to fill the land). It wouldn't matter that it'd take a heck of a long time to travel to another M-class planet since people would live forever.

I'm presenting this not to diminish anyone else's opinion OR to say that I'm right. I have no way of knowing I'm right, so it would be stupid for me to say that I am. I'm simply presenting another point of view to a discussion where everyone seems to be completely in agreement. The question was asked, so I'm just presenting my answer to it. :)

I enjoy watching Stargate because I do enjoy the possibility of intelligent life on other planets, in other galaxies. It's just not something I believe to be true.

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 12:34 PM
A bit, species centric aren't we?

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 01:06 PM
Some people are homosapien-centric...people like me think we're a waste of primordial matter. Everyone has a different view. :D

Faith
August 12th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Oh the whole God/ Bible/ Jesus post kind of gives me a fight with myself.

I have been brought up in a methodist church and yes I say prayers and I do believe something created us but I find my self in a fight believing evey word my church says to me on Sundays. Guess I am lucky I have freedom to believe in my OWN GOD! Like I said before in my previous post I do believe thier is other forms of life out there.

I usualy keep this what I just wrote a secret to myself but thought I could share it with you all and not be judged.

Eveyone is entitled to their own beliefs and everything so I did not write this to make anyone angry or upset.

anyways PEACE!!!!!!

MartoufMarty
August 12th, 2004, 02:09 PM
well, there's gotta be intelligent life out there somewhere... there sure as hell isn't any here. :P

Posherella
August 12th, 2004, 02:42 PM
well, there's gotta be intelligent life out there somewhere... there sure as hell isn't any here. :P

LOL.

To continue with my own thought, I continually mentioned "intelligent life" because I believe it's highly probably that there are other planets out there with life on it void of sentient beings.

I wonder what this planet would be like if all human life on it just ceased to exist. I can't help but think it would be a better place, but then again, I can't even pretend to know what that would do to the ecosystem.

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Life on Earth went on quite nicely for a couple billion years before humans started showing up.

Posherella
August 12th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Life on Earth went on quite nicely for a couple billion years before humans started showing up.

Exactly and they could have continued to do so. But we're here now, so what would happen if we suddenly vanished? The Earth is a very self-cleansing planet. Without us here, how much time would it take before the Earth righted itself? I guess that's slightly off-topic, but I'm still curious about it. :p

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 03:38 PM
We are the only "sentient" life.

Slightly off topic.

Couple of centuries ago, Europeans prided themselves on being the only "civilized" race of all humanity on this planet.

Well, old thought patterns die hard.

LordAnubis
August 12th, 2004, 06:10 PM
Well as the dude in Contact said, "if there's noone else out there, its a whole lot of empty space."

It would be a bit on the naive and arrogant side to suggest that out of hundreds of millions of suitable suns and m class planets, only ONE managed to spawn life.

Or would it?

In the book Natures Destiny, compelling data is presented indicating that the end goal of the universe is to produce humanity.

It is my personal theory that the end goal of the universe is to produce a being capable of creating it. A bit of a temporal paradox, but consistant with current theory. Anyone interested in the complete theory can PM me.

I for one DO believe in extraterrestrial life, intelligent or not.
Damn, that was profound. I wanna hear more about your theory!

aschen
August 12th, 2004, 06:36 PM
We are the only "sentient" life.

Slightly off topic.

Couple of centuries ago, Europeans prided themselves on being the only "civilized" race of all humanity on this planet.

Well, old thought patterns die hard.
Sometimes I think they very well may be the only "civilized" race.

"Humanity is the lowest standard we as a race have set for ourself." - yours truely

systemlord
August 12th, 2004, 07:09 PM
Lock a person in a room for the rest of his natural life. And that person may well come to the conclusion that he is the only sentient life in this universe.

How typically human.

Donks
August 12th, 2004, 07:30 PM
I would expect there to be lots of life all over the universe. Probably not in most or all systems, but in a small percentage of them. Since there are a lot of stars and planets, that still probably translates to a lot. Also, I'd expect some to be all over the place in terms of technological advancement, from primal goo to species that have wiped themselves out.
I really doubt anyone has visited anyone else's planet, anywhere. Well, except for any systems out there lucky enough to have life in two planets.


Lock a person in a room for the rest of his natural life. And that person may well come to the conclusion that he is the only sentient life in this universe.

How typically human.
Hey, no need to lock anyone in a room, I know people who are convinced they are the only beings anywhere, and all the universe is in their minds. Just as valid philosophically as anythng else, i guess, but to me it sounds as egocentric as it can get.

Liv
August 13th, 2004, 05:11 AM
I kind of think it would be statistically impossible for there not to be life on other planets. Intelligent life? Sure. Why not?

Considering the vastness of the Universe, our pedalling around our little sun here in the corner of no and where, is pretty much just a glimmer in the grand scheme of things.

trinity1013
August 13th, 2004, 05:35 AM
I've read through this thread and every single person seems to believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Therefore, I thought I'd offer a different viewpoint. As this viewpoint has to do with God, I hope I'm not kicked from here to Egypt for bringing it up.
First of all, I'd like to thank you for your contribution. I personally know people who are quite religious and therefore cannot accept common theories about evolution and extraterrestrial life either. Just one thing:


If God created several Adams and Eves on other planets, why did Satan choose to try to mislead only Earth? If only the pair on Earth sinned, God would have perfect beings on the other planets and simply wipe out Adam and Eve on Earth completely as there's no need to give humankind a second chance. If, for the sake of argument, there are several "Satans" trying to mislead humans on the other planets and they all succeeded in making the original pair sin, I personally think God would scrap his plans of humans at that point or perhaps wipe out all but one planet and decide to give humankind a second chance on one planet before attempting other planets.
What about several Gods? Blasphemy, I know, first commandment and so on, but what if our God was just responsible for our solar system?

Going back to only one God, perhaps his creations were all so different that the others were not even capable of sinning or he just wanted to keep us pesky little humans (as I don't think other intelligent life out there is only marginally like we are, with the circumstances being probably so different we can't even imagine it).

Posherella
August 13th, 2004, 05:57 AM
What about several Gods? Blasphemy, I know, first commandment and so on, but what if our God was just responsible for our solar system?

Well it's certainly one theory that can be explored, but as far as Jewish/Christian religions go, there is only one God and there wouldn't be other gods even in other solar systems.


Going back to only one God, perhaps his creations were all so different that the others were not even capable of sinning or he just wanted to keep us pesky little humans (as I don't think other intelligent life out there is only marginally like we are, with the circumstances being probably so different we can't even imagine it).

Again, I'm not trying to stop anyone from exploring other theories, but if we are talking about the God of the Bible, then creations not capable of sinning are not sentient as they are not given free will. The sentient creatuers God created (that we know about) are angels and humans and both have free will and are perfectly capable of sinning in their perfected state. All other lifeforms on this Earth (animals, plants, fish, insects, etc) are not capable of sinning and are described in the Bible as constantly praising God - just by their presence. Biblically speaking, other lifeforms on this planet are not perfect because the Earth was cursed when Adam and Eve sinned - therefore animals may not act as they would if they were perfect and we certainly know all lifeforms on this planet fall victim to disease.

I'm not trying to discourage other theories, but the God of the Bible is fairly specific. I'm sure there are those that do believe in a god who created us and do not equate him with the one being in the Bible. I personally know a lot of people that believe there once was a god who's no longer around at all anymore theorizing he's either dead or has moved away from us (perhaps to care for his other, more perfect creations in the universe).

trinity1013
August 13th, 2004, 06:21 AM
@Posherella: I should've known not to question anyone's ideas who knows their stuff as well as you do. I always lose in discussions with my religious friends, too. :o

Anyway, back on topic:


Well, I will tell my story a brief story. When I was in 9th grade I was standing outside at night waiting on some friends to come and pick me up. I was looking at the stars and all of sudden there was this thing that just hovered for about 20 seconds then it took off upwards into the sky. This is one reason I beleive there is something outthere.
I've seen some UFOs as well, but that's it for me. They're U F O s - unidentified flying objects, which just means that I can't identify them but by no means suggests to me that they were spaceships flown by either aliens or members of a secret military operation. Then again, I don't live in Nevada. ;)

Supreme Commander Thor
August 13th, 2004, 06:59 AM
Erm, Thro buddy I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but we HAVEN'T been here for 4 million years. We're quite young in an evolutionary sense.
Wrong Human. Your science is wrong. I have only been watching you for the last 4 million years... your kind (in some form or another) are older than that... trust me, i have been watching... glad you guys are at least starting to get interesting...

Supreme Commander Thor
August 13th, 2004, 07:04 AM
I've seen some UFOs as well, but that's it for me. They're U F O s - unidentified flying objects, which just means that I can't identify them but by no means suggests to me that they were spaceships flown by either aliens or members of a secret military operation. Then again, I don't live in Nevada. ;)
Ah, Trinity1013... be at ease... you are not going crazy... at least one of those had to have been me testing the latest version of the "O'Neil". You are not crazy, and you humans are not alone...

trinity1013
August 13th, 2004, 08:06 AM
Ah, Trinity1013... be at ease... you are not going crazy... at least one of those had to have been me testing the latest version of the "O'Neil". You are not crazy, and you humans are not alone...
Ah, that was you! For the future - just remember to fly a bit higher, will you? Because what you did last time was not good for my hairdo! ;)

Seriously, I wouldn't call anyone crazy who's seen a UFO. There are so many things flying around, you can never tell what you actually saw. I read that 95% or so of all UFO sightings can be rationally explained if you do a bit of investigation.

As the question's already raised but some haven't commented on it: Do you think that aliens are watching us/are among us/have abducted and experimented on people?
No saying "it wasn't me", Thor! Your excuses won't always work! ;)

Jprime
August 13th, 2004, 08:21 AM
Man you'd think an Asgard could remember that its O'NEILL! TWO L's!!!!

systemlord
August 14th, 2004, 06:02 AM
Aliens.

Sometimes members of the same species, members of the same family, can be more cruel to each other than aliens will ever be to us humans.

This the ugly side of human psyche.

Wyrminarrd
August 14th, 2004, 07:19 AM
I don´t see why there being other intelligent races is not compatible with christianity. After all not all humans are christians and so saying that all aliens would have to be christian is wrong. Here on earth these infidels exists to be converted to the right way and thus gain salvation. Perhaps god created these other races so that humanity (his choosen race :rolleyes: ) could spread the message to them and convert them to the proper way of believing

This explains away the need for multiple Adams and Eves though why there can´t be many of those and Satan simply being really good at luring people into sin I don´t know. The races would have been created inherently sinful and exist only to give us humans something to do.

So all you religious types out there, it´s your duty to advance space science and develope faster then light travel so that you can go out there and save the souls of all those trillions of aliens that have been denied heaven and eternal salvation :D


No seriously, I believe that there are other intelligent beings out there and that they don´t have anything in common with us and have never ever visited earth.

And no, I don´t believe a word I said in the first three paragraphs :p

Anthro Girl
August 14th, 2004, 02:42 PM
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space."
- Thomas Carlyle, Scottish essayist (1775-1881), Looking at the Stars

Hey, anything is possible, right? I'm just not too comfortable with the assumption that if there is intelligent life in the universe, that they are necessarily more - or less - intelligent than the humans of Earth. If they were to manage to come here to prove their existence, that would only prove that they are better at science. ;)

Daniel Jackson
August 15th, 2004, 09:15 AM
I know this is probably going to be viewed as a stupid question, but do you really think extraterrestrial life exists?
I think it's "possible", especially since the Holy Bible doesn't say that aliens "do not" exist.


If it does, is it advanced?
My guess is they'd be about 3-4 centuries ahead of us, assuming they didn't go through a "dark ages" sort of era.


More advanced than us, or similar to us?
I'd say more advanced. Maybe not like on Star Trek, but advanced enough to zip arround the galaxy.


What are your thoughts?
I'm a Christian and believe the Holy Bible to be God's word, and not some scholar's interpretation. Thus I don't believe in concepts like Darwin's evolution, but I do believe in other types of evolution, like dogs creating new breeds, that sort of thing. Anywho, I believe that it's "possible" that God created life elsewhere in the galaxy, but I don't believe we'll interract with them untill God feels we're ready or untill after "Revelations".


I don't think that we can be alone out there.
I think we can if we're the only ones whom God created, but I think it's unlikely, unless God created this galaxy and many others for Humanity to eventually explore and colonise. :D


Of the sci-fi series and shows I've seen, the ones that show alien planets and life forms that are vastly different from earth-based life are the most interesting.
I totally agree. One thing that bugs me is when you see the "bumpy forehead alien of the week". If they're having a hard time coming up with new aliens, why not just re-use some we saw in a previous episode? That's whut I'd do if I were in charge.

Mio
August 15th, 2004, 11:35 AM
I've said it before. The probability of their being life out there is pretty good. I mean, space is HUGE. However, it would most certainly not be life as we know it. It would be so vastly different that we would be unable to communicate on any level whatsoever.

Wyrminarrd
August 15th, 2004, 01:15 PM
I don´t agree with that. There is no reason that alien life wouldn´t follow many of the same basic rules that life on earth has followed. Evolution takes the path or least resistence and since similar planets are the most likely to spawn live we can reasonably expect that they would be at least in some regards like us.

Now I´m not saying that they would be vulcan or that similar but there are things that have proven themselves again and again here on earth. For one they would have heads as having all of your major sensors near to your brain is effiecent and effective. They would need to have something like our hands and fingers to be able to built stuff. The number of legs would be few as having many takes to much processing power for the brain.

Speach is a very likely thing to be the main way of communicating. Hearing will o course be there for without it you wouldn´t hear dangers around you and that is a major disadvantage in the struggle for live. Eyes like our own or more or less so are likely in a technological species as they give us a very good way to observe the world around us. Things like echo location seem much more limited and more likely to evolve in a watery condition and if that´s the case then you can rule out technology.

Their way of thinking may however be so alien to us that we can´t understand them or get along with them.

But in an infinite amount of space (or so close to it that it doesn´t matter) anything can and will happen so it´s possible we would run into aliens that are virtually impossible to identify as live except for their technology.

Universal Nexus
August 15th, 2004, 01:23 PM
I don't know if there is or isn't life "out there". If there is, I'm not sure if it'd even be carbon-based. Whether or not the life would be intelligent is yet another iffy thing. The real problem with this kind of question is that we don't know how common life is in the universe. Is Earth an island in a sea of deadly, acidic water? Or is it merely a small island off the coast of the continent?

I'd say that discovery of unique, non-Earthly life in this solar system would settle the debate, however. If life can develop and evolve on its own elsewhere in our solar system without any contamination from Earth, then imagine the possible existance of life elsewhere in the universe. Mars is a good place to be looking -- we now know that the planet had a climate at the very least semi-capable of developing life itself at one point in time. Perhaps it did, and perhaps it lives deep underground now, where it's warm and moist enough? Certainly, life is hardy enough to be capable of such a thing.

But there's a problem with any Martian life we find -- it might've come from Earth. Not just in the sense that a probe landed and contaminated it, but one must realize that both planets have been throwing rocks at each other for millions upon billions of years. More rocks are coming to Earth from Mars, of course, than to Mars from Earth, but it still means that life could've started on either planet, then transferred to the other [whether it did or not remains to be seen, of course]. We know that bacteria can survive trips in space, so it's not an unheard of suggestion.

The place I'm most interested in, however, is Europa. That moon seems to be the most likely candidate for life to develop uniquely on its own in our solar system. It has no contact with Earth or Mars, and as such hasn't to deal with the risk of contamination from either planet. Not that contamination of life is a bad thing, it's just not good for telling if Earth is the only source of known life or not.

...something that does interest me, also, is the reaction our species would have at the discovery of life not of Earth origin. And of the discovery of some form of intelligent life other than ourselves. After all, we all know that there's no intelligent life on Earth. :p ;) How would it change us and the world, I wonder...

Wyrminarrd
August 15th, 2004, 01:48 PM
The reaction on earth would depend on what kind of life we found. If it´s just slime or single celled critters floating in the seas of Europa then I think the reaction would be a media hype for a few weeks and a lot of talk but then petter out and thinks would be business as usual.

Now the reaction to other intelligent life would most likely be very different, we could then expect many people to be very distresst and scared and quite a few looney cults to go crasy. But I´m a believer in that things will always go back to normal, there is a big event, it causes an uproar but then we tend to get used to it and forget about it or consign it to the back of our minds.

If the aliens actually arrived here in the solarsystem......? That would be a big uncertainty, if they look like us or arent threatening then we might be able to deal with it without violence. If they however just arrive and don´t try and communicate with us and are heading to Earth at full speed then I for one would favour that drastic steps be taken to stop them. Nature has shown us that the animals in the same niece of the ecology are the worst to each other.

Mio
August 15th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I don´t agree with that. There is no reason that alien life wouldn´t follow many of the same basic rules that life on earth has followed. Evolution takes the path or least resistence and since similar planets are the most likely to spawn live we can reasonably expect that they would be at least in some regards like us.

Now I´m not saying that they would be vulcan or that similar but there are things that have proven themselves again and again here on earth. For one they would have heads as having all of your major sensors near to your brain is effiecent and effective. They would need to have something like our hands and fingers to be able to built stuff. The number of legs would be few as having many takes to much processing power for the brain.

Speach is a very likely thing to be the main way of communicating. Hearing will o course be there for without it you wouldn´t hear dangers around you and that is a major disadvantage in the struggle for live. Eyes like our own or more or less so are likely in a technological species as they give us a very good way to observe the world around us. Things like echo location seem much more limited and more likely to evolve in a watery condition and if that´s the case then you can rule out technology.

Their way of thinking may however be so alien to us that we can´t understand them or get along with them.

But in an infinite amount of space (or so close to it that it doesn´t matter) anything can and will happen so it´s possible we would run into aliens that are virtually impossible to identify as live except for their technology.

But that's following EARTH rules.

In the primordial soup, amino acids were one of the first things to form. What if another form of life out there had nothing even remotely similar? Surely they would evolve very differently.

Certain traits may reappear over and over with the evolution of carbon based life forms. But what about a life form based on, let's say, Aluminum?

Universal Nexus
August 15th, 2004, 04:06 PM
Ah, Mio, you present one of my favorite arguments. ^^ The logical answer is, of course, we wouldn't know what evolutionary path said lifeforms would follow. That said, would we even know if life based on Aluminum, Silicon, or otherwise is actually life? We have, after all, only experience with carbon-based life and as such must look for signs of life as we know it.

Wyrminarrd
August 15th, 2004, 04:20 PM
But that's following EARTH rules.

In the primordial soup, amino acids were one of the first things to form. What if another form of life out there had nothing even remotely similar? Surely they would evolve very differently.

Certain traits may reappear over and over with the evolution of carbon based life forms. But what about a life form based on, let's say, Aluminum?


The odds are against there ever evolving beings based on aluminum simply because that aluminum doesn´t bond that well with other compounds. Carbon is the best in this regard as it is fairly eager to bond with other elements. That is also why some suggest silicon might work, it too bonds very well.

Again, I´m not ruling out that there can be such creatures but I believe that there will be more creatures that are like us then those that aren´t simply because of the following facts:

1. We know carbon live like that on earth works
2. Evolution should always take optimal routes and we humans have got bodies that work very well and are what makes us capable of building and using tools.
3. Worlds in the liquid water range will most likely be similar to earth, it can´t be much hotter or colder.
4. As I said before and combined with #2 I´m told (I´m not a biologist or a chemist :rolleyes: ) that carbon is the best element for live and thus is the most likely to be seen.


And then there is the fact that if there are other intelligent beings out there I´d like to be able to talk to them :D

Mostly I´m saying these things because I´m tired of watching shows about alien live where the experts all say they aren´t going to be anything like us even though their supposed "expertise" is just guessing.

Ancient 1
August 15th, 2004, 04:21 PM
I think my neighbor might be one....I think he may be a Ri'tu, cause I never see him.

Torley
August 15th, 2004, 04:42 PM
Humans have believed some incredibly gargantuan things which seemed like the absolute truth at the time but fell apart shoddily in hindsight.

Michio Kaku has more than few things to say about Aliens! :D Scope this out:

http://abcnews.go.com/onair/DailyNews/chat_kaku1122.html

and MANY more interviews he's done.

He's one of the world's smartest human beings, and most delightful in his mode of speech. He doesn't condescend and he is open to new possibilities while being a debunker of quackery, as all fine scientists are.

trinity1013
October 12th, 2004, 05:56 AM
Since time immemorial Man has yearned for the power of God, the power to create, in his own fashion and image. The power of creation.
I think the power of (a) God basically is omnipotence and omniscience. And no (human) being will ever be omniscient and omnipotent (hopefully ;)).

ibwolf
October 12th, 2004, 05:57 AM
I think the power of (a) God basically is omnipotence and omniscience. And no (human) being will ever be omniscient and omnipotent (hopefully ;)).
No, but there are plenty of humans who wouldn't mind being all that (and more) :)

Janus
October 12th, 2004, 08:21 AM
I think they do.

First of all, I agree with the people who say the Bible doesn't say that there is now alien life out there.
We're talking God here, he can create as many species as he wants....

But I think we have a problem.
If they are smart enough to get here using FTL-technology, they are smart enough to stay hidden from anything we can come up with to detect them.

trinity1013
October 14th, 2004, 04:23 AM
No, but there are plenty of humans who wouldn't mind being all that (and more) :)
Including you?? ;) :D Omniscience would be nice... would sound really cool on my CV. :D



But I think we have a problem.
If they are smart enough to get here using FTL-technology, they are smart enough to stay hidden from anything we can come up with to detect them.
I guess the prob would rather be that, if they were that advanced, they'd be smart enough to... hmm, say, wipe us out! ;) Seriously, with a bit of bad luck, they'd be way more like "Independence Day" aliens or Goa'ulds than Nox or Asgard.

ibwolf
October 14th, 2004, 06:11 AM
Including you?? ;) :D Omniscience would be nice... would sound really cool on my CV. :D
No, not me. Omnipotent, maybe, omniscient, no way. Just imagine how incredably dull it would be. I mean, it's not like you could sit down and watch some TV or read a book. You already know it all by heart :) Soooo
boring. :cool:

puddlejumper747
October 15th, 2004, 02:23 PM
Short Answers:
Do Aliens really exist? Maybe.
And that's about the ONLY answer we currently have to that question.
It's NOT a stupid question, LordAnubis, but the problem is we just don't know.
Is it possible? Yes, of course.
Does it threaten the beliefs of Christianity/Catholicism in any way? No, absolutely not.
And God is much, much more than just infinitely omnipotent and omniscient, but I won't go into that now. ;)

trinity1013
October 19th, 2004, 03:47 AM
No, not me. Omnipotent, maybe, omniscient, no way. Just imagine how incredably dull it would be. I mean, it's not like you could sit down and watch some TV or read a book. You already know it all by heart :) Soooo boring. :cool:
Okay, you get omnipotence, I get omniscience. ;) I guess the first would be as boring as the latter.

Tok'Ra Hostess
October 19th, 2004, 09:11 AM
81 posts and the usual reasonings for defending the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

False logic.


1) Lots and lots of space = the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

What the heck does the amount of space have to do with anything????? :S

2) If we intelligent humans can concoct aliens and alien landscapes, then intelligent extraterrestrial life must exist.

<cough> We also concocted Pegasus, geese that lay golden eggs, magic beans, giants that live in the clouds, fairy godmothers with the power to evolve rats into men. ;)

Similarly, all the so-called intelligent extraterrestrial life that we have thus far encountered were either made in Hollywood or in SF novels. ETs are the artful conception of human minds.

We have imagined thus far impossible to use FTL travel, thus it somehow stands to reason that there are intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms that actually have FTL travel???

We are curious and inventive, so all other(supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also be. That is like saying that since we have two eyes, all other (supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also have two eyes.

Hey, I'm just sayin'.



:D

LordAnubis
October 20th, 2004, 01:12 PM
81 posts and the usual reasonings for defending the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

False logic.


1) Lots and lots of space = the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

What the heck does the amount of space have to do with anything????? :S

2) If we intelligent humans can concoct aliens and alien landscapes, then intelligent extraterrestrial life must exist.

<cough> We also concocted Pegasus, geese that lay golden eggs, magic beans, giants that live in the clouds, fairy godmothers with the power to evolve rats into men. ;)

Similarly, all the so-called intelligent extraterrestrial life that we have thus far encountered were either made in Hollywood or in SF novels. ETs are the artful conception of human minds.

We have imagined thus far impossible to use FTL travel, thus it somehow stands to reason that there are intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms that actually have FTL travel???

We are curious and inventive, so all other(supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also be. That is like saying that since we have two eyes, all other (supposed, imagined) intelligent extraterrestrial life must also have two eyes.

Hey, I'm just sayin'.



:D
False logic? It's called the law of probability. Some of what you said is very true, but keep in mind, the vastness of space theory plays upon the law of probability. If life could develop on Earth, to the advanced point that it has, then given the amount of space, the sheer number of possible life-bearing planets out there, then it's highly probable that at least a few hundred to a thousand of those planets would also develop life of some kind. At least one to ten of those planets would possibly develop advanced life.

Now, you're also confusing aliens/extraterrestrial life with space-faring aliens. Simply because a life form has become advanced does not mean it has the capacity to travel the stars in ships or through gates. It's possible there are alien civilizations out there that are fairly equal to us technologically, or even less advanced than us.

Imagination has nothing to do with it. Logic and reason dictate that it would be "a great waste of space", to quote the dude from "Contact" if we were really alone out there. There is a logical order to the universe. We fit into that order somehow. I dont know if it's God's plan, random convergence of star elements and cosmic dust, or whatever, but we fit into the cosmic order somehow. We cannot be the only advanced life forms out there. How sad would that be? What a waste if it were just us and us alone. However, I don't think we are. Who knows what/who is out there among the vastness of the galaxy/universe, but perhaps one day we will find out.

Let's just hope our first contact is with an Asgard or Tollan like race, not a race like the Goa'uld or Wraith or any other bad guys.

Tok'Ra Hostess
October 20th, 2004, 02:41 PM
False logic? It's called the law of probability. Some of what you said is very true, but keep in mind, the vastness of space theory plays upon the law of probability.
If life could develop on Earth, to the advanced point that it has, then given the amount of space, the sheer number of possible life-bearing planets out there, then it's highly probable that at least a few hundred to a thousand of those planets would also develop life of some kind. At least one to ten of those planets would possibly develop advanced life.

I'm not even going to touch that part because, AFAIC evolution is also false logic that defies the laws of probability, big time. <shrugs>


Now, you're also confusing aliens/extraterrestrial life with space-faring aliens.

No, I'm not. I'm simply referring to the assumption espressed here on the thread about intelligent aliens and FTL travel. :)



Imagination has nothing to do with it. Logic and reason dictate that it would be "a great waste of space", to quote the dude from "Contact" if we were really alone out there. There is a logical order to the universe. We fit into that order somehow. I dont know if it's God's plan, random convergence of star elements and cosmic dust, or whatever, but we fit into the cosmic order somehow.

At this point in our knowledge of space and beyond, immagination has everything to do with it. :D
Logic and reason don't really dictate any such thing; longing dictates that we don't want to be alone, perhaps, but what we want is immaterial to what is. (BTW, I'm not saying that there is or isn't ET life; I just think the reasons put forward in favor of ETs is flawed.)



We cannot be the only advanced life forms out there.

Longing, couched as a declaration of fact. We get that a lot. ;)

Scientists and other "authorities" make such statements regularly and that's when people get confused. (IMO)



How sad would that be? What a waste if it were just us and us alone.



Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but, a waste of what, exactly? Space? That's entirely relative.

100 years ago businessmen said that wetlands were a waste of space. So we filled them in and planted cities and suburbs on them. Now we know that wetlands were not a waste of space but absolutely vital to the planet's survival. Maybe one day we'll learn a similar lesson about the rainforests, too. :( Perhaps 100 years ago the same could have been said about our own solar system; nine planets and all that space and yet there's only one habitable planet?

Of course, now we know that it takes a whole lot of space and big, heavy objects flying around in an orderly fashion within that space to keep the strong and weak forces of gravity at just the right levels to keep Earth in her place.

So, you see, I'm not saying that ETs might not exist, only that space is not, in and of itself, a reason for them to exist.

LordAnubis
October 20th, 2004, 04:42 PM
I'm not even going to touch that part because, AFAIC evolution is also false logic that defies the laws of probability, big time. <shrugs>



No, I'm not. I'm simply referring to the assumption espressed here on the thread about intelligent aliens and FTL travel. :)




At this point in our knowledge of space and beyond, immagination has everything to do with it. :D
Logic and reason don't really dictate any such thing; longing dictates that we don't want to be alone, perhaps, but what we want is immaterial to what is. (BTW, I'm not saying that there is or isn't ET life; I just think the reasons put forward in favor of ETs is flawed.)




Longing, couched as a declaration of fact. We get that a lot. ;)

Scientists and other "authorities" make such statements regularly and that's when people get confused. (IMO)






Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but, a waste of what, exactly? Space? That's entirely relative.

100 years ago businessmen said that wetlands were a waste of space. So we filled them in and planted cities and suburbs on them. Now we know that wetlands were not a waste of space but absolutely vital to the planet's survival. Maybe one day we'll learn a similar lesson about the rainforests, too. :( Perhaps 100 years ago the same could have been said about our own solar system; nine planets and all that space and yet there's only one habitable planet?

Of course, now we know that it takes a whole lot of space and big, heavy objects flying around in an orderly fashion within that space to keep the strong and weak forces of gravity at just the right levels to keep Earth in her place.

So, you see, I'm not saying that ETs might not exist, only that space is not, in and of itself, a reason for them to exist.
Man, you've sure given this a lot of thought! :) I think you made some really good points and it made me reconsider my post. I think you're right about one thing: I sure hope intelligent ET life exits out there. I guess my longing might have superceded my logic, but I still think it's possible and will keep hoping. Thanks for putting me in perspective! :)

Jprime
October 20th, 2004, 04:49 PM
To anyone interested in this subject I strongly suggest to go out and read a copy of Nature's Destiny.