A tortoise lying on his back - a metaphor? - possible Morpheus spoilers

[froobrar]

In Morpheus, this quote from Vala got me thinking.

You are in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on his back in the hot sun. You recognise his plight but do nothing to help. Why?

I had not heard that before, but from what I've read around it was taken from some other show. But in any event, when I heard that line, my first thought was "I don't know, ask the Ancients".

Anyone else see a remarkable metaphor there? Humanity being the tortoise, and the Ancients being "you" in this parable?

[IcyNeko]

Isn't this a reference to BladeRunner? The droids were asked similar questions...

[full.infinity]

Isn't this a reference to BladeRunner? The droids were asked similar questions...

According to Wikipedia, you are right.

[tommiekins]

If wikipedia says so then I guess that its so.

But it could be a metaphor yes, actually if it was directed at the Ancients then it would work quite well as a metaphor. Her answer could give some future plot line maybe as well. Or then again, it could've just been for humor, and that also worked very well.

(I would also like to say, that my sig did have that quote in before this thread!)

[iheartvala]

But it could be a metaphor yes, actually if it was directed at the Ancients then it would work quite well as a metaphor. Her answer could give some future plot line maybe as well.

Spoiler:

reference to the shroud possibly? humanity is the tortoise, and the ancients are the only ones who can help us, so daniel takes it upon himself to try and gain some ascended knowledge? I highly doubt daniel would do that...

...but then again I think the whole thing about the tortoise was just humor.

[metabog]

WTF there are no tortoises in the desert. Am I wrong? There may be, but to my knowledge they generally live on beaches or something...

So I think you're hallucinating from the desert heat, so that's why you don't help.

[Giantevilhead]

A turtle on its back can flip over onto its feet pretty easily.

[sgeureka]

A turtle on its back can flip over onto its feet pretty easily.

In the sand? Are you sure? I can ride a bike, but I can't ride a bike on sand.

---

Back story for the thread starter: In Blade Runner, set in 2019, replicants (i.e. androids) were asked sick questions to determine whether they are just pretending to be human; normal humans would be disgusted, and their eyes would show their emotion - replicants' eyes wouldn't.

Now, in Blade Runner, animals were almost extinct, and they had extreme value, making the questions even more unbearable ("The entry consists of boiled dog.") So imagine a turtoise helpless in the desert. You'd feel very sorry about it. That's all.

Holden: You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden you look down...
Leon: What one?
Holden: What?
Leon: What desert?
Holden: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.
Leon: But, how come I'd be there?
Holden: Maybe you're fed up. Maybe you want to be by yourself. Who knows? You look down and see a tortoise, Leon. It's crawling toward you...
Leon: Tortoise? What's that?
Holden: You know what a turtle is?
Leon: Of course!
Holden: Same thing.
Leon: I've never seen a turtle. (pause) But I understand what you mean.
Holden: You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, Leon.
Leon: Do you make up these questions, Mr. Holden? Or do they write 'em down for you?
Holden: The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
Leon: WHAT DO YOU MEAN, I'M NOT HELPING?
Holden: I mean you're not helping! Why is that, Leon?
[Leon has become visibly shaken]
Holden: They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response. (pause) Shall we continue?

[justinkb]

Isn't this a reference to BladeRunner? The droids were asked similar questions...

droids? replicants

[Chutzpah]

WTF there are no tortoises in the desert. Am I wrong? There may be, but to my knowledge they generally live on beaches or something...

So I think you're hallucinating from the desert heat, so that's why you don't help.

http://digital-desert.com/wildlife/tortise.html

It's a bit of an obscure metaphor. Sounds like one of those old, thought provoking riddles. You know the ones

"If a tree falls over in the forest, and no one is around to hear it..."

[halem111]

ok as far as i understand....it is a metaphor...you see a tortoise on its back can flip itself over
a tortoise in the sand has great difficulty, it can be helped by a greater being and take the easy way out.....OR it can carry on with its plight and try harder and eventually it will turn itself upright.....

In other words
we are the turtle, and the easy way out is help from the ancients. The hard way out is to figure out the situation ourselves and eventually overcome it.

Thats of course there is a turtle, or there is a desert.....in fact how do you know your real.....ooohhhhhhh

but yeah neways if it was a metaphor thats basically what its saying

[Giantevilhead]

I'll tell you what to do when you see a tortoise lying on his back in the hot sun. You get an onion, some cilantro, some basil, a lemon, a gallon of water, and some fine wine. You add 3/4th of the water with the basil, cilantro, salt, and pepper, and stew for three hours. Then you add the rest of the ingredients and stew for another hour.

[Egeria]

Why does this thread make me think of Terry Pratchett's 'Small Gods' ?

[froobrar]

Why does this thread make me think of Terry Pratchett's 'Small Gods' ?

An answer I thought of yesterday:

You realize you have misinterpreted the situation. This tortoise is clearly the one who carries the world upon his back, and it is in fact you who are upside-down.

[KJ Gould]

I was wondering if anyone noticed this. It's deffinitely Blade Runner, I recognised it immediately as I saw this episode not long after seeing "Blade Runner: The Final Cut" which I got myself for Xmas