My reasons for anti-Daniel/Vala.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

I'm putting this post in spoiler tags because my opinion and view on the subject has changed slightly since I posted it.

Spoiler:

Not against them being friends, but Daniel just can't have that kind of a relationship with Vala. He'd be going out of character. Look at his other relationships: Sarah- smart, respectful, dignified, kind, but he didn't go any further than girlfriend with her. Sha're- curious, kind, caring, somewhat shy, she held firm to her people's moral beliefs, and he married her! Now, what does Vala have in common with those two? Hmmm...

Nope. Nothing. OK, maybe not nothing, I'm just trying to make a point here.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like her character. She's entertaining, she can be sweet and funny, she is over all for the side of good, and I suppose nice to look at for the guys... Daniel could very well become friends with her and I really do hope he does, but I just don't think they could have a realistic romantic relationship. Besides, isn't she married now? Although the producers will most likely kill off the husband. But that's not the point.

Another reason I don't think it would work is that deep down I think Daniel still is holding a pretty good part of his heart for Sha're. It would at least take a long while of getting to know someone before he could even consider falling in love and it would have to be someone who has pretty high moral beliefs. He is a very moral person, as y'all know.

As for Daniel and Sam, that would be almost just as ridiculous.... They're good friends. Like brother and sister. And we all know that Sam wants Jack, anyway.
Cam and Vala would be weird because of who the actors have played... Besides, I've seen no chemestry whatsoever anyway, but I wouldn't really mind it.
The only plausable situation, In my opinion, would actually be Vala and Teal'c. But that's just me...


So, that's how I feel about Vala. Daniel's friend: yes. Daniel's lover: no.
I hope this post has made sense...


Oh, and I suppose you could call me a shipper. I'm a Daniel/Sha're fan, although I know it's hopeless... *sniffle* And I'm not against Daniel falling in love again, just not with Vala. My other 'ship (which I didn't really start until rather recently) is Tala'c, as it's being called. I know, it's far-fetched, but what can I say? I just think it works.

Thoughts?


[EDIT] Other reasons as to why I'm against it were brought up by other people:

The more time Daniel spends with Vala the less time he has with the two that have been his friends for an entire decade! Some people feel that his relationship (friendship) with Sam [and Teal'c] has been hurt, not only because he spends more time with Vala, but by the way he acts towards Sam and other people because of Vala. When he's around her he acts more temperamental and irritated at all the time. He rarely gets excited like he used to and when he smiles it's normally when he's being sarcastic.

Also, the constant pairing of Daniel and Vala is getting old and quite annoying... where are the team episodes, where all of SG-1 are together working to save the galaxy and whatnot? We did get that in The Quest (does that need a spoiler tag?) but that was just one episode. Or they could at least have Vala paired with someone else, if they really have to split SG-1 up all the time...

I for one really enjoy the way Vala interacts with Sam, Teal'c, and Cam. Why can't she do it more?

Now, some of the points I made are still valid:

I'd prefer Daniel and Vala be friends, nothing more.
I enjoy Vala's interaction with the rest of the team and wish she didn't spend most of her time with Daniel.
Daniel is (or at least was) a very moral person and for him to start a relationship with her - regardless of whether or not he is deeply in love - he should have to trust her completely, including emotionally - trust that she is a good person now and won't intentionally hurt him or anyone else.

A few things that I've changed my mind on is that he and she are not "just plain wrong for each other". If TPTB had handled their relationship differently, I would enjoy it. If they had had Daniel act kindly towards her and tollerate her much more and be PATIENT with her, it would have been much more convincing to me.

Here is how I would have liked it:
Daniel meets her and is surprised at her advances instead of immediately getting angry. After he realizes what she's all about and why she does what she does, he patiently shows her that she doesn't need to be a thief and a liar to survive anymore, and that she can have real and lasting friendships if she'd only learn to trust that there are good people in the galaxy, willing to give her a chance. I'm not saying that he should never have gotten angry or impatient - that would have been unrealistic -, but when he did he should have later apologized. Then, slowly, she would learn that the way to love someone wasn't to throw herself at them and beg for sex, but to, not only respect the person, but respect herself so that others will be able to do so, as well. Perhaps Daniel has loved her from the beginning. If so, then he would still wait until he knows he can trust her before starting any sort of romantic relationship. Then, once she learns how to be trustworthy and to deserve the love of an honorable, moral man, they can go ahead and make babies! .... AFTER getting married.

Now, I think the writers have tried to show that she is learning/has learned to be good and trustworthy person, but they went about it all wrong. How did Vala come to learn how to be honorable and trustworthy with Daniel yelling at her and countering her advances with sarcasm and hostilty? How did she learn to trust her new friends with Daniel constantly pushing her away and showing her, IMO, very little respect?

Now, one thing that I didn't understand when I started this thread was the main reason I didn't agree with this 'ship: Daniel. At first, I thought it was Vala. To tell you the honest truth, I didn't like Vala. I didn't like the flirty, sexy, full-of-innuendos space thief. Now that we've all seen more deeply into Vala's past, I've come to respect her a great deal, especially now that she's come a long way towards being a decent person. Daniel, on the other hand, has slipped from being the person I respect the most on Stargate - on ANY TV show, actually - to being one of the people I'm most disappointed with. Some might say he's become more confident, stronger, and braver. I'll give you that. Those are very good traits. However, where did his kindness, his caring, his innocence go? I for one LOVED geeky, kind, lovable, sometimes naive Daniel. You know, the one who'd stick up for people he'd never met. The one who'd do his best to be the moral voice on the mostly military team. The one who'd get over-excited when he found something of great historical and/or intellectual value.

OK, you might say, "What the heck does this have to do with a relationship between Daniel and Vala?" Well, it may just be a coincidence (a rather big one, if it is), but when Daniel is around Vala he seems to be the most sarcastic, rude, annoyed, and sometimes even hostile. And when Vala isn't there (which is VERY rare), he's OK. This is why I don't like this 'ship. I can't enjoy or believe an onscreen relationship when the girl is throwing herself at the guy, but when he's not there throwing herself at every other guy, and the guy is doing the best he can to get her to shut up and lay off as rudely as he can.

I know a lot of people agree with me and a lot of people don't. If you don't agree, then I really don't mind and I'm glad you do enjoy the 'ship the way it is. This is simply how I feel about it, feel free to completely disagree. There is a reason I named this thread "My reasons for anti-Daniel/Vala". As you can see, I did not name it "The ANTI D/V thread" or "Daniel and Vala stink" or "Any D/V fan is insane". I have my opinions on this 'ship and that's all this thread is about: for anyone to come voice their own opinions. I have nothing against anyone who 'ship for Daniel and Vala.

Oh, and I put a Vala smiley next to the thread title to show that I have nothing against Vala, either. In fact, I love her character.

Thanks for reading and feel free to voice your own opinions!

[L.A. Doyle]

You make a good argument. I don't want them to get together either.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

You make a good argument. I don't want them to get together either.

Thanks!

I just hope the producers or writers or whoever is in charge of that sort of thing sees it and agrees with.

[JessM]

*shyly sticks head in*

I have to say that I'm glad that someone started a thread like this. I'd been thinking of starting one myself, but I was afraid I'd get flamed or something by all the pro-D/V people.

I was a bit hesitant to post here though, because I am a Sam/Daniel shipper (BUT a realistic one in that I know I'll never see it onscreen, so I resort to fanfic and the like ONLY, and I appreciate the friendship moments). I know how a lot of people feel, that Sam/Daniel is stupid because they're like brother and sister, so I hope you won't go after me for that. The reason I'm here is because I'm against a Daniel/Vala pairing much as you are - I feel they don't have anything in common and I don't like the way Daniel acts around her, almost like she brings out the worst in him.

I have a feeling that they will get rid of her husband somehow as well... either kill him off or have him decide to go back to his home planet for whatever reason.

Interesting point about Daniel still holding out for Sha're. It appears that at some point (I think in the ep Counter Strike)

Spoiler:

Daniel and Vala will "bond" and Daniel will tell Vala all about Sha're. As for "bonding", I suppose that could translate into friendship, but the cynic in me believes it would be shippy.

The thing that worries me the most is that there will be such a great focus on Daniel with Vala that his friendships with his old teammates, namely Teal'c and Sam, will be neglected. If that happens, it will ruin the show for me. They can be friends, sure, but he shouldn't forget about his old friendships that have stood the test of time, either.

I guess that's about all I can say now. Again I hope you won't hold it against me that I'm a S/D shipper.

[ChillinTheMost]

I don't want them to have a romantic relationship, but I love the teasing/flirty relationship they have now.

However, I want to say that I don't think using his past relationships as a basis for any current or future relationships really works. Daniel was quite innocent when he had those relationships, and while he was confident in his brains, I don't think he was a very confident person about himself otherwise. I think Daniel has grown and has become stronger and more confident and someone like Vala would challenge him - and he could handle that challenge now.

What do they have in common or what traits would Daniel see as positives? Vala is smart. She is sharp and cunning. That cunning may sometimes cross a line that Daniel might not appreciate, but I think he realizes that sometimes, it has served to help her survive. Vala is basically loyal. Hard to believe sometimes, but besides trying to sneak away with precious artifacts or stealing secret files, I think she's shown that SG-1 can trust her to be on their side. There are more traits that Daniel would appreciate, but I'm too lazy to go into it now. Plus, like I said, I don't want this romance on the show - not because Vala is wrong for Daniel, but because I don't watch this show for romance. If I did, I'd want to see Mitchell and Sam together.

Oh, as as for Mitchell and Vala having no chemistry - that's probably because their characters, so far, are not supposed to click, even in the friendship way. Maybe we'll see more in season 10. Ben and Claudia certainly know how to have chemistry between them!

[JessM]

Has Daniel really flirted with her at all? I always thought that the bulk of the flirting came from Vala. I don't mind the way things are now between them (or at least the way they were before she left), especially through the barbs they trade. I've heard a lot of people refer to it as UST. I don't know why. I certainly don't see it as that. These two have strong feelings for each other deep down and would get together in a heartbeat if something wasn't holding them back? Sorry but I personally just don't buy it.

On the other hand, they keep saying that Vala will be "softened." I worry that if they soften her too much, then their relationship will get dangerously close to romance, and we'll have scenes with the shippy music in the background, the longing stares, touches, etc. etc.

I realize that she might have certain qualities that Daniel likes, plus Daniel still has that compassion, so he would probably feel for her if she was in a real bind. But I think he'd feel that way about anyone on his team (as far as compassion is concerned). I don't know why it would be much more special with Vala. And his other teammates must have qualities that he appreciates as well, right? Again, I don't see how Vala would stand out much and should be granted more of his attention than Teal'c or Mitchell or Sam.

I agree with you, Chillin. I don't watch this show for romance. Sure, I have my ship preferences as others do, but I don't think they could be dealt with properly onscreen, so I prefer no romance at all. Friendship is something I like to see, though (definitely wouldn't mind seeing more friendship between Vala and Mitchell), and I appreciate the little moments that we're treated to here and there. I just hope that his other friendships won't be sacrificed in the name of highlighting the one with Vala.

[ChillinTheMost]

Has Daniel really flirted with her at all? I always thought that the bulk of the flirting came from Vala.

You're right. Vala has done most, if not all of the "flirting". I meant the teasing was kind of flirty, not that Daniel was flirting like you would, say, at a bar trying to pick someone up.

On the other hand, they keep saying that Vala will be "softened."

I don't think she's softened, or will be softened, as much as she's let herself be herself around SG-1, without the walls of defensiveness. I think the softer aspects of her personality are already there, she's just used to hiding them to get by in her rough life. Notice how she felt for "her" people in TPTB. She showed genuine affection and worry when they became sick.

I realize that she might have certain qualities that Daniel likes...

and that's all I'm saying. I was replying to your implication that Vala had none of the characteristics that the other women did. She does have some, however, having them is not indicative of a future relationship. It also doesn't negate it.

... I just hope that his other friendships won't be sacrificed in the name of highlighting the one with Vala.

Totally agree.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

*shyly sticks head in*

I have to say that I'm glad that someone started a thread like this. I'd been thinking of starting one myself, but I was afraid I'd get flamed or something by all the pro-D/V people.

I was a bit hesitant to post here though, because I am a Sam/Daniel shipper (BUT a realistic one in that I know I'll never see it onscreen, so I resort to fanfic and the like ONLY, and I appreciate the friendship moments). I know how a lot of people feel, that Sam/Daniel is stupid because they're like brother and sister, so I hope you won't go after me for that.

Naw, that's fine. I'm not anti shipper, really. I just don't think it should happen in the show.

The thing that worries me the most is that there will be such a great focus on Daniel with Vala that his friendships with his old teammates, namely Teal'c and Sam, will be neglected. If that happens, it will ruin the show for me. They can be friends, sure, but he shouldn't forget about his old friendships that have stood the test of time, either.

I guess that's about all I can say now. Again I hope you won't hold it against me that I'm a S/D shipper.

I agree. And again, I'm not holding anything against you. Actually, I don't think I'd mind Daniel/Sam as much as Daniel/Vala, I just don't think it's realistic.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

I don't want them to have a romantic relationship, but I love the teasing/flirty relationship they have now.

However, I want to say that I don't think using his past relationships as a basis for any current or future relationships really works. Daniel was quite innocent when he had those relationships, and while he was confident in his brains, I don't think he was a very confident person about himself otherwise. I think Daniel has grown and has become stronger and more confident and someone like Vala would challenge him - and he could handle that challenge now.

Sure, he's more confident. But that doesn't mean his view on morals or even his choice in women would change a whole heck of a lot.

What do they have in common or what traits would Daniel see as positives? Vala is smart. She is sharp and cunning. That cunning may sometimes cross a line that Daniel might not appreciate, but I think he realizes that sometimes, it has served to help her survive. Vala is basically loyal. Hard to believe sometimes, but besides trying to sneak away with precious artifacts or stealing secret files, I think she's shown that SG-1 can trust her to be on their side. There are more traits that Daniel would appreciate, but I'm too lazy to go into it now. Plus, like I said, I don't want this romance on the show - not because Vala is wrong for Daniel, but because I don't watch this show for romance. If I did, I'd want to see Mitchell and Sam together.

Like I said, I'd like them to be friends too. You're right about Vala in that she does have a lot of good traits. But when it come to romance I still don't think Daniel would choose Vala. Vala is over all for the side of good, but Daniel couldn't fall in love with her-or even if he did, he wouldn't pursue a romantic relationship because of what kind of a person Vala is. She's a good person who, from time to time, is tempted to do something wrong and acts on that temptation. I still believe Daniel has pretty high morals.

[Dani347]

JessM, you shouldn't feel scared to ship for any couple. I personally see Daniel and Sam as more brother and sister (science twins and all that) but that's me. You see them shippy, and that's you, and I would have no right to attack you or tell you you're wrong. Stand proud!

Now, my reason for disliking Daniel/Vala ship is I think it's incredibly, horribly cliche. It would be like a long, dragged out, twisted version of the "meet cute" concept. Guy meets girl, girl and guy fight (in the most slapsticky way imaginable), girl annoys guy until I'm sure he wants to bop her over the head with a frying pan, and it's because they love each other. Keep those poor kids out of any elevators together. That's where those types of relationships always get consummated.

I also don't like the idea that because a woman spends time with a guy it has to mean that they have romantic feelings. Or that all women flirt because they're feeling something. I think Vala likes flirting and likes seeing Daniel lose it when she says something atrocious in front of his friends and coworkers. It's fun! And, Vala is too old to be compared to a boy pulling on a girl's pigtails because he likes her (which makes a strange gender switch thing here). Vala doesn't seem to hide her feelings or have hang ups. Although I think she likes him as a person, I don't think she's feeling anything special in a romantic sense for him.

I also think Daniel may be starting to think of Vala as something more than a huge pain in the neck, but romantic? Nope.

But, softened doesn't have to mean ship. And, please no special music or awkward glances. I can't imagine Vala doing awkward glances. Too meek, too passive. And, if Daniel did them (my eyes!) I could see even a softened Vala confronting him and asking him in the most direct way possible what they mean.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

I was replying to your implication that Vala had none of the characteristics that the other women did. She does have some, however, having them is not indicative of a future relationship. It also doesn't negate it.

No, I agree with you. When I said she has nothing in common I suppose I didn't exactly mean nothing. I just meant that her major traits aren't the same. Over all, she's a different kind of person, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. Sarah and Sha're have more in common with each other than with Vala. Now, they aren't exactly the same either, I was just trying to make a point. I suppose I didn't do it exactly the way I meant to, but at least you get the idea, right?

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

JessM, you shouldn't feel scared to ship for any couple. I personally see Daniel and Sam as more brother and sister (science twins and all that) but that's me. You see them shippy, and that's you, and I would have no right to attack you or tell you you're wrong. Stand proud!

Exactly!

Now, my reason for disliking Daniel/Vala ship is I think it's incredibly, horribly cliche. It would be like a long, dragged out, twisted version of the "meet cute" concept. Guy meets girl, girl and guy fight (in the most slapsticky way imaginable), girl annoys guy until I'm sure he wants to bop her over the head with a frying pan, and it's because they love each other. Keep those poor kids out of any elevators together. That's where those types of relationships always get consummated.

I also don't like the idea that because a woman spends time with a guy it has to mean that they have romantic feelings. Or that all women flirt because they're feeling something. I think Vala likes flirting and likes seeing Daniel lose it when she says something atrocious in front of his friends and coworkers. It's fun! And, Vala is too old to be compared to a boy pulling on a girl's pigtails because he likes her (which makes a strange gender switch thing here). Vala doesn't seem to hide her feelings or have hang ups. Although I think she likes him as a person, I don't think she's feeling anything special in a romantic sense for him.

Those are very good points. *is thoughtful* Yeah, I hadn't really thought of that. Thanks.

I also think Daniel may be starting to think of Vala as something more than a huge pain in the neck, but romantic? Nope.

Agreed.

But, softened doesn't have to mean ship. And, please no special music or awkward glances. I can't imagine Vala doing awkward glances. Too meek, too passive. And, if Daniel did them (my eyes!)

[Commander Ivanova]

Puh-lease! No shipping of any description until TPTB learn how to write ship. They just don't do it very well. Best kept in the realms of fanfic if you ask me.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

Puh-lease! No shipping of any description until TPTB learn how to write ship. They just don't do it very well. Best kept in the realms of fanfic if you ask me.

Interesting view, Ivanova. I don't completely agree, but I see your point.

[Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel]

On the other hand, they keep saying that Vala will be "softened." I worry that if they soften her too much, then their relationship will get dangerously close to romance, and we'll have scenes with the shippy music in the background, the longing stares, touches, etc. etc.

Actually, I think if they did soften her, then I'd be a little more open to the idea, but they'd have to soften her quite a bit!


Btw, what does UST stand for?