Sam & Vala: Stronger Characters With Ship or Without

[Pharaoh Atem]

So do we think female characters are stronger when they are being shipped with a male character or are they better off all by themselves.

Someone just pointed out that Vala shouldn't be shipped with Mitchell or Daniel; she is a much stronger character without the ship.

Sam to me was the same way she was a great character until the writers were trying to ship her with Jack; so do we think the female characters are much stronger not needing a man around??

[ShippyChick]

I don't necessarily think shipping makes them less strong, but I do think it makes them more well rounded characters. It flushes out the character more in my opinion. Both characters are great on their own, but as you might be able to tell by my handle, I am a fan of the ship.

[L.A. Doyle]

Someone just pointed out that Vala shouldn't be shipped with Mitchell or Daniel; she is a much stronger character without the ship.

I think Vala's trying to ship herself with Daniel. She's the one throwing all the innuendo around.

Sam to me was the same way she was a great character until the writers were trying to ship her with Jack; so do we think the female characters are much stronger not needing a man around??

Sam is still a great character! She has never needed any man, not even Jack. She has always been able to hold her own. At the same time, wanting to love someone doesn't make a character weak. If anything, love can make a person stronger. I don't think her having feelings for Jack makes her less strong at all. The only problem I have is the writers trying to ship her with everyone else in the universe!

[Toresica]

I personally think shipping is mostly a waste of the time.

Anyway... whether shipping is a waste of time or not certainly doesn't depend on the gender of the person involved.

Vala's not the settle-down-and-raise-a-familty type, so if she was to have a commited romantic 'ship, that would be a bad idea. (Unless it was part of a character arc in which she becomes the type to have a commited romantic 'ship).

Sam, imo, would be better off without a ship.

[SpikeBad]

Why not ship Vala and Sam with eachother? Now I'd pay to see that.

[Agent_Dark]

Why not ship Vala and Sam with eachother?

I've been saying the same thing!

[majorsal]

Sam is still a great character! She has never needed any man, not even Jack. She has always been able to hold her own. At the same time, wanting to love someone doesn't make a character weak. If anything, love can make a person stronger. I don't think her having feelings for Jack makes her less strong at all. The only problem I have is the writers trying to ship her with everyone else in the universe!

what she said.






sally

[Commander Ivanova]

I wouldn't mind if TPTB could write a decent, believable ship, but all we've ever had are one or two good moments. So I'm happy to do without.

[Skydiver]

you know, i don't think that ship is bad for the characters...but HOW the ship is written has been.

It's not the fact of having these female characters in a relationship that's caused issues, it's how the male writers of the show portray the women taht rankles with some

the greatest 'issue' usually is, to use sam and pete for example, during much of that relationship, the writers wrote sam how they wanted her(and any other woman) to act, not how she WOULD act.

and i have a feeling that vala will end up the same way, turned into the male fantasy of how they want the female half of thier relationship to be.

[maxbo]

If written properly, ship should neither weaken nor strengthen a female character. IMO, the belief that female characters are better because of ship is just as damaging as the belief that female characters are (or could be) weakened because of ship.

It all boils down to the writing. Are the writers committed to writing for each character as an individual, before attempting to ship them? Also, are they committed to writing ship as if it's an integral part of the series and not just a gimmick? So far, IMO, the answer is no to both questions, so I fervently hope that they don't attempt to write ship for SGA, and I hope that they stop attempting to write ship for SG-1. They are not good at it.

[Toresica]

Are the writers committed to writing for each character as an individual, before attempting to ship them?

Vala was originally brought in as a one-shot character, who wanted to ship with Daniel - so they'll have to take Daniel away from her before they can write her as an individual.

Sam was written as an individual, though.

Also, are they committed to writing ship as if it's an integral part of the series and not just a gimmick?

I hate Kirking as much as the next person, but Stargate has done some ships well - Teal'C/Drau'ac, for instance, was nicely done, as was Daniel/Sha're.

[maxbo]

Vala was originally brought in as a one-shot character, who wanted to ship with Daniel - so they'll have to take Daniel away from her before they can write her as an individual.

Sam was written as an individual, though.

Yes, Sam was written as an individual and if the writers had realized that they didn't need to change her to ship her, there would probably be fewer fans complaining that she had been ruined by ship.

Regarding Vala, I happen to think that the writers have done a good job of writing her as an individual, however, if they decide to ship her I can easily see them doing to her what they did to Sam and changing her to comform to their one-size-fits-all view of a woman in love.

I hate Kirking as much as the next person, but Stargate has done some ships well - Teal'C/Drau'ac, for instance, was nicely done, as was Daniel/Sha're.

Yes, but Drau'ac and Sha're were not main characters. IMO, it's much easier to ship a recurring/guest character with a main character than to ship 2 main characters.

To write ship well for main characters, the writers have to be especially committed to integrating ship into the storyline over the long haul and I haven't seen any evidence that the Stargate writers see ship as anything more than a gimmick.

[Dani347]

Vala was originally brought in as a one-shot character, who wanted to ship with Daniel - so they'll have to take Daniel away from her before they can write her as an individual.

Do you mean take away as in have her interact with everyone and not just Daniel exclusively? I'm all for that. But, I think there's a problem when it has to be either ship or writing as an individual. I'm as much against shipping these two as I am Jack and Sam, but a character should always be an individual, whether or not they have mates.

[AmberLM]

Personally I don't think it matters whether Sam is shipped or not in terms of character strength since she has never been and will never be defined by her significant other. Sam is first and foremost a scientist, a soldier and very successful at both and doesn't need anyone else to function to the best of her ability. So she may or may not be in love with Jack - what does it matter? It's not like she spends all of her time in the field following him around like a doe-eyed, love-sick puppy to the detriment of "unit cohesion and effectiveness in combat". I don't recall any instances where any potential feelings have put anyone in danger or caused a problem as both Sam and Jack are professionals who know where to draw the line. (I'm trying to be objective. I am a shipper but I believe that integrity of Sam's character comes first.)

Vala, on the other hand, is a character who (IMO) was designed solely to provide a) eye candy and b) instigator of sexual innuendos for cheap laughs. There's no reason for her to stick around other than to provide cheap thrills so I think her character is (and I use the term in the widest sense) "stronger" if she is shipped because that's the only reason for her character to exist. That and to bore us all to tears with a load of stuff we don't care about her "sudden change of heart". I don't like Vala because I feel that she represents everything that Stargate was NEVER supposed to be about (i.e. cliched 7-of-9-style attempt at gaining viewers.) I *do*, however, like Claudia, she seems like a nice person and a good actress and in no way do I mean any disrespect to the actress. I just have serious issues with the character she plays.

That just happens to be how I feel about it.

[fishyone]

*prepares flame retardant suit*

Here's a thought... If Sam is strong enough without ship, why do most of the Sam fanvids have ship in them?

That annoys me to no end. I know there's more than ship to Sam, but in seasons 7 & 8, I didn't feel that way, especially in 8. I dislike what the ship did to her character. She was mooning over her CO and acting like a teenager. I'm sorry. I just can't see it any other way. The show would have been much stronger and Sam's character would have been much better without any onscreen ship. I say that as a shipper... although not a s/j one. In season 1, Sam was all about making her way in a man's world. She wanted to be "one of the guys." That all seemed to go out the window with ship. I like Sam. I'm not a Sam hater. I just dislike what has happened to her character, and you know what, I love season 9 because she wasn't that anymore. She was coming back to her roots. We saw scientist/warrior Sam, not Sam-in-love-with-her-CO Sam.

As for Vala, to make a ship believable with her, "softening" of her character would have to happen. And that would take away what I like about her. I don't buy her "softened." I don't want to see ship with her and Daniel because I think it demeans them both. Vala uses her sex appeal to get her way... It's part of the hard, tough character she is. So if she does get a man, what does that show about him? That he values her only as a sex object? I know people would disagree with me, but that's how it seems. So, no, don't ship Vala with anyone. She's better off on her own.

Really, if ship could be left off-screen, I think it would be better... That way I wouldn't need a flame-retardant suit to voice my opinion.