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    Ancient hi-plan

    Hi gaters,

    I was imagining, if the plan of life of the Ancients could be shaken by the war between the Ori and Humans. It could cause breaking in the rules to not to intervene? What your point of view?

    Some theory?
    Last edited by Fabiano; 31 May 2006, 12:24 PM.
    Fabiano Klug
    O'neill say: I don't care.
    Stargate Brasil

    #2
    Well its possible, but i think its pretty unlikely. If the ancients were willing to let Anubis destroy the entire galaxy, they wont care about the ori killing a few humans here and there.

    The only reason they would intervene is if the ori themselves came to our galaxy, but im sure if they did they would try and eliminate the ancients first - being their arch-enemies and that. (I think it was stated in the show that the ori were planning to visit the milky way to destroy the ancients).
    If at first you don't succeed.... try a bigger thermo-nuclear reaction

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      #3
      If the statement that the Ori draw their power from their followers is true then it is probably true that the Ancients do the same.
      So the Ori first want to increase their own power by converting as many Milky Way humans to Origin as their can and diminish the Ancients' power by eliminating any of their followers who refuse to convert.

      Once that phase of their plan is complete they will probably come to the Milky Way themselves and fight the Ancients directly.

      It has been indicated that destroying the Ancients is their ultimate goal.

      I want them to somehow find out about Merlin's weapon in S10 so that their followers will be trying to find it aswell as SG-1 looking for it. I think this will make for some good stories and the opportunity for us to have some recurring Ori followers other than Adria.
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        #4
        I doubt very much that the Ancients "draw" energy from Human beings. They are an extremely benevolent race, much like the Asgard. The fact that they now refuse to intervene doesn't suddenly make them evil.

        I still stand by the thinking that the Ancient technology is still WAY superior to ANYTHING else out there including the Ori, AND that as far as them being ascended, there is probably more of them and it wouldn't surprise me if they were more powerful as ascended beings as well.

        Remember what Daniel said, it will probably be a while before the Ori were a threat to the Ancients, and since the Ancients are probably observing all of this, I'm guessing they would know and intervene is the Ori somehow DID become a threat. At this point I think they are just a big threat to the milky way galaxy.
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          #5
          Well the ascended ancients were going to let Anubis destroy the galaxy to punish Ulma for breaking their rules. He wasn't allowed to use his poweres but he could use whatever knowledge and tech he could obtain as a mortal. If he did use his powers then they would stop him. The same goes for the Ori. If they tried to come to the MW then they would interven. But sending priors and soldiers ultimatley doesn't effect the Ascended ancients. Its just like them not interfering with Daniel and Vala when they contacted the Ori galaxy. Free will. they don't interfere with the lower planes. Yes their are the rebels like Ulma and Orlin. Maybe TPTB will introduce a new character willing to help like
          Spoiler:
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            #6
            Originally posted by Jimbo-DR
            I doubt very much that the Ancients "draw" energy from Human beings. They are an extremely benevolent race, much like the Asgard. The fact that they now refuse to intervene doesn't suddenly make them evil.

            I still stand by the thinking that the Ancient technology is still WAY superior to ANYTHING else out there including the Ori, AND that as far as them being ascended, there is probably more of them and it wouldn't surprise me if they were more powerful as ascended beings as well.

            Remember what Daniel said, it will probably be a while before the Ori were a threat to the Ancients, and since the Ancients are probably observing all of this, I'm guessing they would know and intervene is the Ori somehow DID become a threat. At this point I think they are just a big threat to the milky way galaxy.
            Just because the Ancients don't tell us to worship them doesn't mean that it doesn't give them power when we do.

            IMO, they created the humans of the MW and Pegasus galaxy so they might have enough worshippers to protect themselves from the Ori once they'd ascended. They just believe in free will enough that they don't insist we worship them (their followers just get nothing in return). Furthermore, I think the reason they went to the pegasus galaxy in the first place was to create a second galaxy of potential worshippers (a significant number of those humans DO worship them).

            It is implied in various Atlantis episodes that they never discouraged humans from worshipping them. This could possibly be for the same reasons the Asgard allow humans to worship them or they had an ulterior motive in not interfering (the power they gain through it).

            Even if this is true, I doubt the Ancients do as the Ori, draining the life-force of their worshippers at the point of death (destroying their souls in the process?).

            The simple act of being worshipped has been stated in the show to give ascended beings power. The Ori snuff them out so they don't have to share (while claiming they ascend them), but the Ancients simply don't share at all, because of the potential for abuse.
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              #7
              It's only been stated that the Ori can drain energy from that act of worship, not that the very act of it causes the draining. And I doubt that the Ancients drain energy from anybody, or else Daniel would have known about that once he ascended, and wouldn't have stayed ascended nearly as long as he did because of it.

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                #8
                Originally posted by XJamesX
                Well the ascended ancients were going to let Anubis destroy the galaxy to punish Ulma for breaking their rules. He wasn't allowed to use his poweres but he could use whatever knowledge and tech he could obtain as a mortal. If he did use his powers then they would stop him. The same goes for the Ori. If they tried to come to the MW then they would interven. But sending priors and soldiers ultimatley doesn't effect the Ascended ancients. Its just like them not interfering with Daniel and Vala when they contacted the Ori galaxy. Free will. they don't interfere with the lower planes. Yes their are the rebels like Ulma and Orlin. Maybe TPTB will introduce a new character willing to help like
                Spoiler:
                Morgan Lafey


                -James-
                Anubis is not a fully Ascended Being, he's only half, so I truly doubt he posses the kind of power the Anciets have. Therefore, Anubis probably wouldn't pose much threat to anyone if he wanted to use his power. Furthermore, Anubis doesn't exist on the same level as the Ancients, so because of that- even if he did use whatever power he has- the Ancients wouldn't intervene.... they don't and won't interfere with the affairs of beings from lower plains of existance.

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                  #9
                  Even though human-form Daniel speculated that the ascended ancients were 'unable to send Anubis all the way back', it was later stated that they didn't send him back at all. They merely pervented him from using his powers or the knowledge he had gained while ascended. I think the fact that Oma was unable to destroy him all by herself adds weight to this arguement. If he *had* been significantly less powerful than her she could probably have just snapped her fingers and poofed him from existance.

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                    #10
                    Well here's my real take on it:

                    The ancients were the most advanced race to ever inhabit any of the Galaxies that we have visited so far.

                    When they ascended they gained more power and a little more understanding for the Universe.

                    I really don't think they would be dumb enough to let the Ori become a significant threat to them, which is why I think the Ori are staying out of the war and just using priors and ships.

                    Remember when SG-1 was on Kheb, Oma zapped Jaffa whenever she wanted to with lightning bolts. I'm sure the Ascended beings can fight mortals if they want to, but doing so would probably invoke the Ancients wrath.
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                      #11
                      Excellent speculations, I believe that the war between the Tau'ri and the Ori is only one small obstacle to destroy the beings lit. I believe that the human beings are the line of front of the old ones to protect they. This theory of that the lit beings drain the energy of the human beings is new for me, but as he was said above, Daniel is here for proving the opposite.
                      Fabiano Klug
                      O'neill say: I don't care.
                      Stargate Brasil

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by ascendedancient42
                        Just because the Ancients don't tell us to worship them doesn't mean that it doesn't give them power when we do.

                        IMO, they created the humans of the MW and Pegasus galaxy so they might have enough worshippers to protect themselves from the Ori once they'd ascended. They just believe in free will enough that they don't insist we worship them (their followers just get nothing in return). Furthermore, I think the reason they went to the pegasus galaxy in the first place was to create a second galaxy of potential worshippers (a significant number of those humans DO worship them).
                        There's one problem with this theory, however. Most Milky Way Humans do not know the Ancients ever existed and do not worship them in any capacity.

                        Most Pegasus humans we've met don't appear to worship anyone with devotion. Those that have mentioned the Ancients, acknowledge them as ancestors, give reverence to them, and remember them in special moments but we have yet to come across any organized religion for the worship of the ancestors.

                        We have little indication that most people in Pegasus know the Ancients ascended as opposed to being killed off by the wraith. It's hard to worship when you don't know that there are 'gods'.

                        What we know of Origin is that they worship devotedly, prostrating for no less than six hours a day. We know that the religion covers the entire Ori galaxy and from what Orlin has said is that this massive effort is required. They need massive numbers of people and they need them to do it often and never stray from the path. Even the Goa'uld didn't maintain that kind of organized devotion.

                        The Ori also do not ascend people in order to keep their numbers small so that the power they get from their worshippers is not spread thin. On the other hand, The Ancient's don't stop Oma from ascending entire populations.

                        If the Ancients get anything from the stray worshipper here and there, it certainly isn't enough to make any claims that this is going to shift the balance of power in their favor.

                        But the most obvious reason why it's unlikely the Ancients are getting anything from their worshippers is that the show has never been written to be that complex. Following the trends of the past 9 seasons, it's almost always a clear good vs. evil situation, with little to no ambiguity. So if the ancients seem to be good, then they probably are and if the Ori seem to be evil, they probably are. It's a simple show.

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