No free will, because of the Ancients.(possible spoilers)

[JanusAncient]

I've been watching Stargate Sg-1, from the beginning, and there is something I've noticed about the Ancients. Well something in regards, to their interaction with humans, just by existing in this galaxy, even though they are on another plane of existence. When Daniel ascended, he took on the same form, as Oma, so did Anubis. Anubis was darkness, but that was most likely due to what the Ancient's did to him. They are all this bright white energy. We know from the Ori, that they don't have to exist in this fashion, given the reality of ascension, they could probably appear as whatever they chose to.

People are going to use the Stargates, they will create more Stargates, in different galaxies. They will create zero point modules, drones, flying cities, Puddle Jumpers, communication devices, all the things that the Ancients created. This is where the argument, of the Ancient's giving humans free will falls apart. Nothing they will ever do, will be dissimiliar from anything the Ancients did. From the episode Metamorphosis, the structure with the Ancient dna manipulation device, was very similiar. Now we know with the Ori, they've enslaved their followers, but if they succeed in destroying the Ancients, and decided to leave their followers be. I doubt that any of their followers, would create the same technology, or choose to appear as they do, as ascended beings.

But, the humans in the Milky Way, will do exactly what the Ancients have done, make exactly the same mistakes, even the ships, are starting to look like the ones designed by the Ancients. People can say that what the Ori do is an injustice, but isn't it a greater injustice, what the Ancients are doing. At least the way I see it, there is no free will in the case of the Ancient's.

I'm not saying this is the way it should go, but it is a possibility. What is interference? Even the people in Pegasus, looked exactly like Chaya, when they ascended.

[GreyFox]

ori are blatent, kill right away. alterans leave us alone

[Chutzpah]

I don't know what you mean.

Free will isn't about making things different, it is about letting what's going to happen, happen. If humans go down the exact same path as the Ancients did, that's fine. As long as it was their choice.

[the fifth man]

I don't know what you mean.

Free will isn't about making things different, it is about letting what's going to happen, happen. If humans go down the exact same path as the Ancients did, that's fine. As long as it was their choice.

Excellent point! I couldn't agree more.

[JanusAncient]

My point is, how can it be their choice, if the only choice they truly have, is to follow in someone else' footsteps? Free will, is about choices, but when there is a limit to the choices you can make, because you are being influenced by others, is that really free will, or manipulation, made to look like free will?

[Chutzpah]

My point is, how can it be their choice, if the only choice they truly have, is to follow in someone else' footsteps? Free will, is about choices, but when there is a limit to the choices you can make, because you are being influenced by others, is that really free will, or manipulation, made to look like free will?

Ok, the Ancients leave humans with as much free will as they possibly can. There technology is lying around, and humans will have to choose how they deal with it, what they do with it, ect.

Free will isn't a complete blank start, with no external influence.

I'm not really smart enough to argue about things like this.

[P-90_177]

I think that wouldn't be too bad t explore a little more. It's an interesting theory.

[sgeureka]

My point is, how can it be their choice, if the only choice they truly have, is to follow in someone else' footsteps? Free will, is about choices, but when there is a limit to the choices you can make, because you are being influenced by others, is that really free will, or manipulation, made to look like free will?

The version of free will I like the most is "Your free will stops where the free will of others begins." The Ancients aren't tapping with their feet and say "You have to use the Stargates." All they did was leave the Stargates in our galaxy so anyone can use them if they want to. And if humans think they can use the Stargates to their advantage then that's their choice.

As Kinsey and the others have said at the end of Season 1, the Pandora's box should never be opened, but it is open now because it was the choice of the military (in the movie) to open the Stargate. Now we have to deal with that in the way we think is best. All of that was and is by our own free will.

I am not saying that what we're doing with our free will is always the best choice. If we could look into the future we might make different choices. But all of this is by free will.

[Deevil]

It's called evolution. The ancients evolved much like we did, so speaking strictly from an evolutionary standpoint, of course we would follow in their footsteps simply because we are very similar and only have a couple directions we can go. The only difference is is that we have a huge jump point which allows us to piggyback on the giants.

Now, speaking from a philosophical standpoint, there is some belief that time is circular, what has happened once will happen again and therefore it's not unlikely that our footsteps are the same as the Alterians because from this point there is no other way for us to travel.

Now, the thing of it is, neither of these points actually mean we have no free will. Because in the end it's not what we do, but how we do it that's in question. That's what free will is, not the destination but the journey.

[AtlantisForever]

well the ancient's giv's us as much free will as we want ye there technolagy is all round the MW but if we find it fair enough we make mistake's they just leave us to it and watch us... they evoled like us.. simple people who was intrested in the star's..

just put it as this

Ori: Bad they demand ppl to follow them so they can be GoD's
Ancient's: Good they let us do what we want when we want..

[Deevil]

Well I am not sure neutrality can be considered good... It just is, and I doubt the Ancients are really good.

[AtlantisForever]

Well I am not sure neutrality can be considered good... It just is, and I doubt the Ancients are really good.

]
how can you not say the ancient's are not good.. we no in a differnt galaxy the ori are demanding follower's or die... the ancient's dont...

if people are gonna say they never help us.. that's aload of bull

1. 2x Jack's brain been sucked into the headsucker (Ancient Knolage pedastal)
2. theyve saved Daneil twice by offering him ascension.. if you say that was oma well how did she ascend..
3. the Ancient OutPost to destroy Anubis Fleet

you might say this is all technolagy... but they didnt have to leave all this tech in our galaxy but they did

[Deevil]

Just because they are not forcing someone to worship them does not make them good - it just means they are not that bad.

The Ancients haven't really helped us, and whatever they do now will be in a bid to help themselves. They do not mess in the matters of mortals; Oma was being punished for doing so, and Orlin was punished - as was the planet he helped for doing the same.

All in not rosey in Ancient land, and they are keeping their own secrets and playing everything close to the chest.

And leaving technology on the mortal plane in not an action of good either, because technology is neither good or evil it's the user that makes it either way. They do not influence us in the way we use it; they are not good for the creation of it - just more technologically advanced.

[AtlantisForever]

Just because they are not forcing someone to worship them does not make them good - it just means they are not that bad.

The Ancients haven't really helped us, and whatever they do now will be in a bid to help themselves. They do not mess in the matters of mortals; Oma was being punished for doing so, and Orlin was punished - as was the planet he helped for doing the same.

All in not rosey in Ancient land, and they are keeping their own secrets and playing everything close to the chest.

And leaving technology on the mortal plane in not an action of good either, because technology is neither good or evil it's the user that makes it either way. They do not influence us in the way we use it; they are not good for the creation of it - just more technologically advanced.

but the ori only want to destroy the ancient's for revenge and the ancient's will just stand there n die... then the Ori will demand us to worship they like GoD's they dont do much because thats there way because they have learnt the hard way once again in the GW if they help people they seem to get destroyed..

[Deevil]

but the ori only want to destroy the ancient's for revenge and the ancient's will just stand there n die... then the Ori will demand us to worship they like GoD's they dont do much because thats there way because they have learnt the hard way once again in the GW if they help people they seem to get destroyed..

The ancients wont stand around and let themselves die, that isn't going to happen. They will defend themselves, they will defend themselves through us. Which oddly enough is not much different then what the Ori are doing, having an army of mortals fighting there battles.

In case I wasn't clear before, just because the Ancients don't ask us to worship them, does not make them good - just doesn't make them the Ori. Big, big difference.

And just out of curiosity, why do the Ori hate them so much? We don't know. There is much more to this tale then we are being told.