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View Full Version : Are the ori only Using their Pre ascention tech?



DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 07:18 PM
Just thinking...
Arnt the rules of the others that you cannot use knoweledge youve gained once ascended back on the mortal plane. (explained in Season8 about anubis)
Would this mean that the ori are only using their pre ascension technology to build their ships and make their weapons? Could this also be why the others allow priors to exist (because the ori had knoweldge how to evolve a human before they ascended?)
If this is the case Then logically pre ascension ancient tech should be on par with that of the oris or maybe beyond it.
If their going to break a rule whats from stopping them from breaking all the rules and doing the dirty work themselves.I wonder who would police their rules on their plane...

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Just thinking...
Arnt the rules of the others that you cannot use knoweledge youve gained once ascended back on the mortal plane. (explained in Season8 about anubis)
That rule was for Anubis alone. The problem with descending is that you will not be able to retain the knowledge in human form. Your brain simply can't hold it all. THis is what happened to Orlin in "The Four Horsemen".



Would this mean that the ori are only using their pre ascension technology to build their ships and make their weapons? Could this also be why the others allow priors to exist (because the ori had knoweldge how to evolve a human before they ascended?)

I think the Ancients don't smite the priors because they aren't ascended beings. Ancients only mobilize when ascended beings come into our galaxy. I'm wondering if the rogue Ancients (like Oma) would do something.. possibly not. Remember: Non-interferance rule.



If this is the case Then logically pre ascension ancient tech should be on par with that of the oris or maybe beyond it.
If their going to break a rule whats from stopping them from breaking all the rules and doing the dirty work themselves.I wonder who would police their rules on their plane...
The Ancients can only enforce rules in their own galaxies. That's why the Orii invasion ships weren't destroyed: they were made with Ori knowledge in the Ori galaxy, where they make their own rules.

DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 08:04 PM
well if the ori are using their post ascended technology i am very disapointed then, with all the knowledge of the universe that was the best they could come up with? they may have good weapons and shields but that cant be the pinnacle of space flight. With all that knoweldge if they wanted to be invicible why not make it phase shift and have cloaking abilities etc etc and why make it from metals? how about a ship made from pure light or some other material

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Well, this is discussed elsewhere. :) It could be that their knowledge is limited to their own galaxy, and that they were as advanced as the alterrans were when they left the Ori Galaxy so long ago.

PG15
April 11th, 2006, 10:11 PM
1. Their knowledge is not infinite
2. They invaded in a year
3. The human workers build the ships
4. It was damn effective in battle.

Why go with such advanced tech when tech that they have is good enough?

DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 10:30 PM
1.Yes for the billionth time we know this
2. If the ori are not governd by the ancient rules why get mortals to build ships at all
3. See 2
4. why make multiple weak ships when they could make one all powerful one That could not be challenge no matter what? If their knoweledge is only limited to their galaxy wouldnt they over estimate the enemys power to make sure they defeat them rather than under estimating them

surely in the millions of years theyve been ascended they could come up with some non conventional ships and weapons. why use a catapult when they could design a nuke?

PG15
April 11th, 2006, 10:47 PM
You think their ships are weak?

Are we watching different shows here?

DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 10:51 PM
weak in design is what im saying, and not much thought put into it by TPTB. im sure by season 10 episode 1 a couple of them will be destroyed by us with our in comparison medievil technology

PG15
April 11th, 2006, 10:57 PM
How are they weak in design? Seemed pretty strong to me, the way they took out...all the ships.

And we'll just have to wait and see for Season 10, can't really be sure of anything at the moment.

Eoin
April 11th, 2006, 11:08 PM
weak in design is what im saying, and not much thought put into it by TPTB. im sure by season 10 episode 1 a couple of them will be destroyed by us with our in comparison medievil technology
Not much thought put into it by TPTB :eek:.
You try designing a new ship for a scifi series and see if you come up with something better :P

DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 11:15 PM
what im saying is... If the U.S go to battle in say africa against the natives would they use spears against them? or would they use their knoweledge and use tanks, helicopters and highly trained troops? We wouldnt just design better spears then them and expect that to work

Eoin
Im not saying i could but i dont get paid hundred of thousands of dollars to come up with them.

PG15
April 11th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Ok, I'm still not getting this.

Did you see the fact that the "better spears" did work? Very well I might add?

DestroyAscendedBeings
April 11th, 2006, 11:37 PM
their ships are about as invincible as apothises mothership, and anubis's and the replicaters ships...... give it a few episodes.. i smell a formula.

At this point PG15 im guessing if i showed you a picture of an apple youd call it an orange :)
not complaining its always good to hear other gateheads POV

If you had knoweldge of how the universe worked (not all of it but some) and had millions of years to study it would you make a deisgn close to a primative societys

PG15
April 11th, 2006, 11:40 PM
Yeah, sorry about that. I'm just weird/rude/hostile/occasionally witty like that. :P

We shall see I guess.

Deevil
April 12th, 2006, 03:55 AM
First, being assended doesn't mean you know everything.

Second, the assended and Ori have similar technology, but not the same as they went down different paths.

Third, why do something yourself, when you can get someone else to do it for you.

Fourth, time is relative. And relative to the fact that they have all the time in the universe, nothing that happens have to happen over night for them.

Fifth, how would they build the ships? They are assended beings, and the logic remains if they take human form they will end up loosing their abilities. Hense why the possess/infuse the Priors.

Sixth, designing a new ship isn't easy. It doesn't have to look flash to be strong.

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 12th, 2006, 06:21 AM
1.Yes for the billionth time we know this
2. If the ori are not governd by the ancient rules why get mortals to build ships at all
3. See 2
4. why make multiple weak ships when they could make one all powerful one That could not be challenge no matter what? If their knoweledge is only limited to their galaxy wouldnt they over estimate the enemys power to make sure they defeat them rather than under estimating them

surely in the millions of years theyve been ascended they could come up with some non conventional ships and weapons. why use a catapult when they could design a nuke?

Making ships is something for the corporeal plane so the Ori can't just fire down and start building themselves. They can manipulate energy and destroy things but can't think of something and make it appear. They would need to take human form for that and why would 'gods' do that? We have never seen an ascended being think of something and 'poof' it appears.

If you are invading a galaxy why make one supership rather then tonnes of advanced ships that are stronger then the enemy? The Ori have no need for cloaking as their cause is 'right' and cloaking means you are hiding. Why would they need to hide? Why phase shift? The Ori battleship can't fight the enemy then.

Also the Ori can't come to the MW galaxy themselves - yet - because it would bring an Ascended War with the Ancients so they wait, conquer the MW galaxy, gain more followers and then attack when they have the certainty of victory. So because of this they had to develop technology for their followers. Followers who are in the middle ages in terms of technology and have barely seen it. As the Ori ban technology, easier to believe in the Ori's 'powers' if science isnt involved. So they would need to make both simple technology for their followers with little exposure to 'science'.

IcyNeko
April 12th, 2006, 07:32 AM
1. Their knowledge is not infinite
3. The human workers build the ships

Here's the thing... what builds more fervor? If we start a crusade against some unknown foe with the promise of ascension at the end, and then when the stories of the fallen are brought back to "home", it would inspire more people to fight for "salvation". We've seen this tactic employed by the Pope during the Crusade (may I remind everyone that the Christians lost in the end.. a sign?).

Why have the humans build it when the Orii can do it themselves? Why bother? Just download the schematics to their Priors and grant the priors the ability to either create the needed materials or the ability to make a forge/mining operation to make it available. You don't need to be advanced to mine materials. They do it all the time with primitive cultures. As for taking that material and forging it into ship's armor and such.... medieval times were perfect for that. A sword that is mass produced today can't compare to the mastery that was shown in medieval times by a skilled swordmaker.

Are the ships weak? Are we talking african spears? I don't think so.

The medieval folk couldn't possibly build a space ship with their technology level. The only way they can build one and have it work is by having a higher power provide the schematics, and a prior who understands how all the components should fit together. The loose ends (small kinks in the armor or onboard systems) can be worked out by the Orii... they are powerful enough to do that.

Another reason to have humans do it... Humans take pride in whatever they create. It makes them want to fight hard to protect it. And since the Orii can't step foot inside the milky way thanks to the Alterrans... why not send an army of humans who fight with zeal to protect their ships, their families, and their faith?

Excellion_razor
April 13th, 2006, 06:50 AM
1.Yes for the billionth time we know this
2. If the ori are not governd by the ancient rules why get mortals to build ships at all
3. See 2
4. why make multiple weak ships when they could make one all powerful one That could not be challenge no matter what? If their knoweledge is only limited to their galaxy wouldnt they over estimate the enemys power to make sure they defeat them rather than under estimating them

surely in the millions of years theyve been ascended they could come up with some non conventional ships and weapons. why use a catapult when they could design a nuke?


Well just b/c the Ori are ascended beings, it doesn't mean they can just snap their fingers and a war ship will just appear. They are not all powerful. It was stated that ascention is the begining of the journey. That suggests that there is an even higher plain of existance. They don't just have followers to worship them, they want the followers to do their bidding. Remember that a prior is necessary to activate their ships, and the priors powers are endowed on them by the Ori.

Just look at what appears to their ships power source in the middle of the ring. It is some kind of singularity that looks like a small star. That kind of tech is most likely post ascention knowledge. We know from and episode of SGA that the Lantians were experimenting with a similar technology (drawing power from normal space to replace ZPM tech.), but they could not keep it from going critical. They abandoned the experiment, and Mckay came across it. He thought that he cld get it to work, but like the Lantians he did not succede. However it appears that the Ori succeded were the Lantians could not.

Also, I highly doubt that the Ori have any need for space faring ships in their plain of exsistance. Maybe in the Stargate universe there is no higher level of technology. There has to be a limit to what a spp. or race can create technology wise. I wld imagine that the Ori will have another type of doomsday machine we will see in future episodes.

Another point is that the rules that govern interference w/lower plain spp. is imposed by themselves (Anceints), so they wld not become like the Ori. The Ori are not goverened by these rules b/c they did not impose them on themselves.

Mvrck
April 14th, 2006, 01:09 AM
On the ship debate:

Exactly WHAT good would one super massive uber-king ship do?

You can't hold an entire galaxy with one ship. You can't even hold a system constelation. A system would be tough to manage if the other guys weren't looking for a fight.

So you want to wipe out the enemy's fleets, you have to take your one ship away from whatever it's guarding onto a wild goose chase across the galaxy...leaving everything you just conquered completely exposed.

You need many, many ships to be able to control territory. Literally thousands if you are going to rule an entire galaxy.

So if you are going to need many, many ships, do you try to make every single one invincible at a ridiculous cost of resources, manpower, time, effort etc.? Or do you pick a design that will likely far surpass anything the other side can throw at you, and still be more or less mass produced within a year by hand-laborers at the dark-age level of technology?