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mahram
April 4th, 2006, 09:25 AM
Just wondering, can the aurora an ancient warship, take on the ori's warships?

Lonewolf
April 4th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Just wondering, can the aurora an ancient warship, take on the ori's warships?
Well the actual Aurora would not be able to, it was destroyed by self destruct(in the Atlantis episode Aurora), but speaking the Orion (Aurora class) it might or might not be able to, lets look at the specifics. The aurora class is a reconnaissance ship not a war ship (stated in the Atlantis episode Aurora), with the slower intergalactic hyper drive, not faster galactic so that’s not the best (stated in the Atlantis episode Aurora) and shields well I don’t remembers specifics but holds back lava and besides weapons & armament it has drones? Who knows what else the armament is. So until we see it in action or more specs who knows?

aAnubiSs
April 4th, 2006, 10:09 AM
I'm gonna give the only certain answer we can give at the moment:

'Maybe'

PS. There are already two-three threads regarding this in Science and Technology, with a few dozen replies each.

Insipid
April 4th, 2006, 12:26 PM
The Aurora wouldn't be able to touch an Ori ship, as it has been destroyed. The Orion wouldn't be able to touch an Ori ship as it is currently very badly damaged and not fully operational. You also have to remember that it's humans at the helm of the Orion, not the Atlanteans - Ancients - which is like someone who only knows how to drive a car suddenly thrust into the controls of a Boeing 747.

Wraith_Hunter
April 4th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Well the actual Aurora would not be able to, it was destroyed by self destruct(in the Atlantis episode Aurora), but speaking the Orion (Aurora class) it might or might not be able to, lets look at the specifics. The aurora class is a reconnaissance ship not a war ship (stated in the Atlantis episode Aurora), with the slower intergalactic hyper drive, not faster galactic so that’s not the best (stated in the Atlantis episode Aurora) and shields well I don’t remembers specifics but holds back lava and besides weapons & armament it has drones? Who knows what else the armament is. So until we see it in action or more specs who knows?

Actually it is a Warship! It was imply on a recon mission.

Here are some quotes from 'Aurora' & 'Inferno'.


1.
SHEPPARD: A warship?
McKAY: See, look at his eyes all lighting up again. It's Pavlovian. I cross-checked the logs. They were on a reconnaissance mission. When we activated the ZedP.M., the city must have sent out some kind of an automated subspace beacon recalling ships back to Atlantis

2.
CALDWELL (interrupting again): Relax, Doctor, I happen to agree. The value of an Ancient warship in our hands instead of the Wraiths' is more than enough incentive for me.

3.
ATLANTIS. John is walking with Doctor Elizabeth Weir towards her office.
SHEPPARD: It's an Aurora class warship. Obviously the Ancients built more than one of them.
WEIR: Why didn't we become aware of it at the same time our sensors picked up the Aurora?
SHEPPARD: It's damaged -- probably from the war with the Wraith.
WEIR: Beyond repair?

4.
WEIR: Our interest extends beyond just security, though. We're also interested in cultural exchange and, of course, trading opportunities. As you discovered, we have an extensive knowledge of Ancient technology.
LYCUS (looking at her suspiciously): And we have an Ancient warship.
WEIR: Yes. A ship that currently is unable to fly. If we were able to repair it, perhaps we could negotiate ...
LYCUS (interrupting): We do not know all of its wonders, but I can only assume it possesses the capability for great destruction. Why would I hand over that capability to you?

5.
LYCUS: There's nothing wrong with our Gate. Dial it again.
(The technician dials again. The Gate dials, then groans and powers down.)
TECHNICIAN: We're getting nothing.
(Lycus looks at Elizabeth.)
LYCUS: You orchestrated this, didn't you?
WEIR: What?
LYCUS: You lured me here to hold me hostage in exchange for our warship.
WEIR: I assure you, Chancellor, that is not what's happening here. Zelenka, the Daedalus is on its way back from Earth. I want you to contact Colonel Caldwell and divert them to Taranis

6.
CALDWELL: Well, Colonel Sheppard could have saved some of the remaining population, but instead he tried to save every single one of them by taking refuge aboard the damaged Ancient warship, which has pretty much taken any options I might have had out of the equation.
WEIR: Stay as long as you can.
CALDWELL: Hermiod says the volcano's about to erupt. We should know for sure by then.

It's called a Warship in 6 seperate conversation throughout the two episodes.

As for the hyperdrive, what does that matter, it may not have intergalactic capabilities as standard, but since they aren't chasing the Ori around multiple galaxies, then that doesn't make any difference. What matters isn't how fast it is, it's how it handles itself in battle.



The Aurora wouldn't be able to touch an Ori ship, as it has been destroyed. The Orion wouldn't be able to touch an Ori ship as it is currently very badly damaged and not fully operational. You also have to remember that it's humans at the helm of the Orion, not the Atlanteans - Ancients - which is like someone who only knows how to drive a car suddenly thrust into the controls of a Boeing 747.

Why specifically? It's not very badly damaged, the only thing that wasn't really working was the Drones. So apart from the weapons, then it's ready to rumble. It really wouldn't matter who was at the helm of it, as long as they know what everything does, then the weapons would do the same damage no matter who was pressing the fire button. The only difference between the two races are that the SGA team wouldn't be able to repair it anywhere near as fast, or even in an extreme situation, create brand new Lantian tech. Other than that, I personally think they'd actually make better use of the ship that the Lantians did themselves. They didn't have the tactical knowledge or experience, that's why they were defeated, despite them having better & more advanced technology that the Wraith. Compare that to the humans, who are much more experienced in that department. Therefore, as long as they know what everything does, I don't see a problem with them taking out almost anything they come across in it.

From the looks of it, it looks like it may have a beam weapon that probably will come from the huge lances on the side, similar to the sat weapons platform. Then on looking closely in 'Allies', you can see what appears to be dozens of weapons turrets running along the length of the outside hull. Add to that an armoury full of Drones, then I really cannot see how it wouldn't tear an Ori ship a new ass if they were to fight. The only problem is that more Ori ships would probably come for backup & that would give them the advantage. On the other hand, if they could find a ZPM to boot the Orion's shields, then I even think it could take on a couple of Ori ships at a time without too much difficulty.

Major_Griff
April 4th, 2006, 02:43 PM
I highly doubt that a fully functional Aurora class ship could actually destroy and Ori ship. Firstly the Aurora's were most likely made very quickly by the Ancients since they really had no need for that kind of ship before the Wraith (besides I think the ancients could make prettier looking ships with more time ie. Atlantis), and second, the Ori are ascended while the Ancients when they made the Aurora's were not. Surely with the ascended powers the Ori have they could gather the knowledge to construct ships better than what the Ancients could have back then, espesially in the rushed circumstances that I mentioned before.

NakedJehutyV2
April 4th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Actually it is a Warship! It was imply on a recon mission.

Here are some quotes from 'Aurora' & 'Inferno'.



It's called a Warship in 6 seperate conversation throughout the two episodes.

As for the hyperdrive, what does that matter, it may not have intergalactic capabilities as standard, but since they aren't chasing the Ori around multiple galaxies, then that doesn't make any difference. What matters isn't how fast it is, it's how it handles itself in battle.




Why specifically? It's not very badly damaged, the only thing that wasn't really working was the Drones. So apart from the weapons, then it's ready to rumble. It really wouldn't matter who was at the helm of it, as long as they know what everything does, then the weapons would do the same damage no matter who was pressing the fire button. The only difference between the two races are that the SGA team wouldn't be able to repair it anywhere near as fast, or even in an extreme situation, create brand new Lantian tech. Other than that, I personally think they'd actually make better use of the ship that the Lantians did themselves. They didn't have the tactical knowledge or experience, that's why they were defeated, despite them having better & more advanced technology that the Wraith. Compare that to the humans, who are much more experienced in that department. Therefore, as long as they know what everything does, I don't see a problem with them taking out almost anything they come across in it.

From the looks of it, it looks like it may have a beam weapon that probably will come from the huge lances on the side, similar to the sat weapons platform. Then on looking closely in 'Allies', you can see what appears to be dozens of weapons turrets running along the length of the outside hull. Add to that an armoury full of Drones, then I really cannot see how it wouldn't tear an Ori ship a new ass if they were to fight. The only problem is that more Ori ships would probably come for backup & that would give them the advantage. On the other hand, if they could find a ZPM to boot the Orion's shields, then I even think it could take on a couple of Ori ships at a time without too much difficulty.


great ownage


yes if the drones can penetrate ori shields

the fifth man
April 4th, 2006, 10:29 PM
I'll tell you this, an Aurora-class warship would have a much better chance than anything we currently have at our disposal. So, it's worth a shot.

mahram
April 4th, 2006, 10:32 PM
thats a really great question nakedjehuty, could the drones even penetrate ori type shields. So far the drones are the most powerful weopens ever created. Excluding the life creating, replicator destroying weopen. Even more powerful then those satellite weopens in atlantis. And they are the mainstay of ancient defense systems. Could you imagine the shock in sg1's faces if the drones couldnt penetrate the shields of the orii.



great ownage


yes if the drones can penetrate ori shields

Avatar28
April 4th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Drones > Ancient/Orii beam weapons > Asgard weapons > goa'uld weapons > tauri weapons.

I think that the Ancient and Orii beam weapons are essentially the same. They seem to have the same type configuration, both seem capable of running on lower level power sources, both seem to function in a similar manner. The only difference between the Rand one and the Ancient one was the color, the ancient one was brighter and greenish yellow compared to orangish from the Rand one. This likely indicates a higher energy level in the Ancient one.

I think the one on the Ancient satellite was much more powerful because A) it was built using all ancient materials, only the power source was human (and because of the buffer, that didn't matter anyways except possibly for refire rate) B) it took out a hive ship in one shot. The Orii designed Rand satellite took multiple shots to destroy the much smaller Prometheus, even though the beam seemed to easily penetrate the shields. The Orii "built" ones on their ships didn't seem a whole lot more effective, though I'm sure the Asgard shields had been tuned to deal with that which probably helped.

Here are a couple of screen caps I've managed to dig up. The one from Ethon isn't as good as I would like but it will have to do.

Ancient defense satellite. Note the greenish color of the beam.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/atlantis1x19azzc103-small.jpg

Rand Protectorate weapon from Ethon. Note how the beam is orangish in color, suggesting a lower energy level.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/ethon0192-small.jpg

Ori beam weapons from Camelot. Note the color here is more yellowish. Closer to the ancient satellite, but still doesn't seem to be quite as effective and a yellowish color would still suggest a lower energy level. Which makes sense when you figure that even with Orii help, the society building it is still more primitive and likely somewhat limited in the materials they can use. It may also suggest that because of their focus on science the Ancient stuff is still more advanced than what the Orii could produce. I lean towards the latter option or a combination of the two.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/camelot592-small.jpg

j619pinoy
April 5th, 2006, 01:34 AM
Not a chance. If it did..the story would be way too inconsistent. Even the Orion would get wasted...

Even though we've never seen an Atlantean ship in action..think about this....

Atlantean knowledge....vs....Ori ascended knowledge....

Besides...the Orii ship looks like it uses some special power source..maybe similar to a ZPM. It's the white glowing fuzz in the center of the ship..totally cool. I'm sure the ship has it's draw backs since it was probably a rushed job....just like the satellite that destroyed Prometheus.

genius21
April 5th, 2006, 06:55 AM
the orian can destroy a ori ship the ori are a religion group the ancients were scientiffic merlin even build a weapon the size of a necklass that can defeat acendent beings if you are acendent doesn't mean you have all the knowleadge you must gain knowladge the ori are more busy to control people the orian has surviaved for thousands of years and we don't know what makes it tick almost like every ship in stargate they don't give alot of info or no info.

the drones i think that drones dont move in our space time that's how they can past shields if you think of space time for example think about levels our space time is in between 10 levels level 5 the drones work level 4 or 6 just out of our space time (the yellow glow when fired) hyperspace is level 8 or 9 acention level 10 all is on a different level shield work on level 5 drone on 6.

when acendent you dont know everything and not all can chance our space time can affect this dimension that's why acention is a different dimension like hyperspace and it can't chance materials in this dimension.

one on one the orian will win (religion against science in tis space time)

metroid
April 5th, 2006, 07:21 AM
You shouldn't say such a thing without any facts.

Eventually, i'm sure that the Orion and an Ori ship square off but untill then, we shouldn't say we KNOW that the Orion is better, because we don't know.

Also, everyone should stop saying that the Ori have ascended knowledge and thus know how to make better and much stronger ships. Like Daniel said in the Season 6 final (if that's the right episode atleast), an ascended being still needs to learn things itself, when your ascended it doesn't just come to you, it's just easier to understand then when you were a mortal.

Seeing as the ancients have been shielding the MW (and very likely, Pegasus too, maybe even Ida) i doubt the Ori have had any competition to fight in all those millions years, it's very likely that the Ori use the exact same weapons and shields as the Ancients and Ori once shared. So it's likely that the Ancient tech is more advanced, but we just don't know.

mahram
April 5th, 2006, 09:53 AM
well I think he meant is that the orii in their ascended forms, and with all of their advanced knowledge are giving it to their human servants to build ships. Thats why he thinks their ships are more advanced. Also, I think the ascended rule is that both races cant physically interfere with humans.


You shouldn't say such a thing without any facts.

Eventually, i'm sure that the Orion and an Ori ship square off but untill then, we shouldn't say we KNOW that the Orion is better, because we don't know.

Also, everyone should stop saying that the Ori have ascended knowledge and thus know how to make better and much stronger ships. Like Daniel said in the Season 6 final (if that's the right episode atleast), an ascended being still needs to learn things itself, when your ascended it doesn't just come to you, it's just easier to understand then when you were a mortal.

Seeing as the ancients have been shielding the MW (and very likely, Pegasus too, maybe even Ida) i doubt the Ori have had any competition to fight in all those millions years, it's very likely that the Ori use the exact same weapons and shields as the Ancients and Ori once shared. So it's likely that the Ancient tech is more advanced, but we just don't know.

IcyNeko
April 5th, 2006, 12:19 PM
Well, then again...

The Lantians left the Orii galaxy before they came to the Milky way. From the Milky Way, they then went to Pegasus, and then back to the Milky Way. This gives them plenty of time to research more powerful technology.

My question is... does Janus have any surprises for us? If he's been watching time using his time machine, shouldn't he know that the Orii will be back? :)

Avenger
April 5th, 2006, 12:36 PM
I would say no seeeing as the Anceint tech in any of their ships that have survived is thousands of years old, which would put them at a huge disadvantage.

Bragi
April 5th, 2006, 12:52 PM
I think an "Orion" in its' prime would be on an even keel with a "Toilet."

Unfortunately, even the youngest "Orion" we could find would be ~10,000 years old, and more likely than not, battle-damaged. Since they seem to only have been built for the war against the Wraith. This is also a problem because, if you follow the thread that they were built to fight the Wraith, then they would only be in Pegasus.

I don't think the Orion is the answer to the Toilet. I still think that Drones would do a number on them, not a single one, mind you, that'd be too easy. But I still think Drones are a real answer.

Of course, there are very few Drones left, not nearly enough to take down the entire Ori fleet.

Keep in mind, I'm saying all of this from a writer's perspective.

IcyNeko
April 5th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I would say no seeeing as the Anceint tech in any of their ships that have survived is thousands of years old, which would put them at a huge disadvantage.

As are Stargates, Atlantis, the Dekara weapon. But the ancients had an amazing ability to make their technology able to withstand the wear of time. The only reason I can see a ship not working is due to damage or power depletion.

If the Ancients built Atlantis like the Tau'ri, the cityship would be rusted away, at the bottom of the planet long ago. Forget 10,000 years.. try 10 months. :)

Chaos18
April 5th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Yeh but if the ancient ship battles an Ori Ship.

well the ancients ship that is still alive is called teh aurora no? or thats the one that was destroyed.


well the one that is still running with the help of the odessey, jaffa motherships, lucian alliance ships and asgard ships (most powerfull ships with a number of other) well with all that firepower i doubt the ori will have a chance.


i know the odessey 1 asgard ships and loads of jaffa ships with 3 lucien allienace ships did not stand a chance.

but with help of an armada of asgard ships.




with hte aurora they don't stand a chance.

IcyNeko
April 5th, 2006, 02:09 PM
Dude, what?

First of all, the Aurora is destroyed. The Orion, an Aurora-class ship, is in the Pegasus Galaxy.

Second, whether or not the Tok'ra, Tauri, Jaffa or Lucian Alliance ships were there is inconsequential. Collectively, they don't possess enough firepower to bring down the Orii ship's shields. They could fire all day on an Asgard ship, and the Asgard on board wouldn't bat an eye. Remember, the Asgard were the ones enforcing the protected planets treaty, and they did it using the Beliskner-class warship, which is not as advanced as the O'Neill-class. And at the first MW Battle, KVasir's O'Neill wasn't able to destroy a single Orii warship. That means that the other ships never stood a chance.

If it was the Orion and possibly Kvasir's O'Neill-class, it might be a different story. Might be. Combining the powers of two members of the Great Alliance might be a different story.

NakedJehutyV2
April 5th, 2006, 02:13 PM
we'll see if drones (if thats what asurans use also) can penetrate daedy's asgard designed shields and even atlantis shields. then we'll get an idea

jenks
April 5th, 2006, 02:33 PM
I think we'll end up finding out that drones can penetrate ori sheilds, although that is based on absolutley nothing...

Happy_Gate
April 5th, 2006, 02:36 PM
Even if the aurora could penetrate Ori shields, its outnumbered 3 to 1.
Battle be over in seconds. Aurora toast.

mahram
April 5th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Well you have to expect atlantean weopens like drones could penetrate atlantean shields right. They wouldnt have any weopens capable of defeating atlanteans going rouge.



we'll see if drones (if thats what asurans use also) can penetrate daedy's asgard designed shields and even atlantis shields. then we'll get an idea

mahram
April 5th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I was just thinking, the aurora was powerful, but it couldnt handle a fleet of wraith ships. could the ori handle the wraith, then.



Even if the aurora could penetrate Ori shields, its outnumbered 3 to 1.
Battle be over in seconds. Aurora toast.

metroid
April 6th, 2006, 02:04 AM
It's called the Orion, the Aurora self destructed. Perhaps you should try to grasp that as it's only been mentioned a billion times.

Like i said in my last post, we simply don't know what kind of effect the Orion could possibly have.
If you consider that 1 O'Neill Class ship did no damage but scratch their shields (though their weapons presumably did no damage to the Asgard either) then we might be looking at the fact that the Orion is infact one of the only solutions to the Ori ship problem.

Another solution is hijacking one of their ships and use it to fire on the other ones. I think it's actually a good possible solution the writers will use.

Lonewolf
April 6th, 2006, 07:37 AM
Oh I hope we don’t hijack a ori ship, too easy, bad writers no imagination!! Its the quick way out! I would rather have Orion blow them up! Or something like phase shift and sabotage. But who knows if Orion could do it! Show me the Data!!! And yes people it is the Orion not Aurora!!

edain
April 6th, 2006, 08:13 AM
I think the Ori weapons are strong because if the drones were better, don't you think they would use those instead of their beam weapons? They acended beings after all. I'm pretty sure they would be able to build them and use them

section33
April 6th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I think the Ori weapons are strong because if the drones were better, don't you think they would use those instead of their beam weapons? They acended beings after all. I'm pretty sure they would be able to build them and use them

the drones were more than likely designed after the "ancients" left the ori galaxy... the main weapon on the ori ship is very similar to the satelite weapon the ancients used which i think would be a more basic weapon than the drones, as the drone require the gene to be used ?(in my opinion they replaced the beam tech)...

an Aurora class might be able to Defeat an Ori Warship, if it were fully operational. as from the design of the jumpers, the ancients vessel were extremly agile, they only have to dodge the main weapon which recharges. unfortuantly as we dont know much about the Aurora class weapon systems, i cal only speculate that it mite have weapons capable of penitrating the ori shields, (as they would have been based on the same base technology)

(u see i dont post for ages then i post an essay... :mckay: )

now what i would like see is atlantis take on the ori...!

mahram
April 6th, 2006, 09:28 AM
do you remember that episode where that ascended ancient was banish to that planet for giving a primitive people a powerful ancient weopen to defend themselves against the gould. im wondering if that weopen was strong enought to defeat an orii ship.


I think the Ori weapons are strong because if the drones were better, don't you think they would use those instead of their beam weapons? They acended beings after all. I'm pretty sure they would be able to build them and use them

mahram
April 6th, 2006, 09:29 AM
metroid how come all the hate!!! Ok orion. Why dont we just say aurora class warships then :D


It's called the Orion, the Aurora self destructed. Perhaps you should try to grasp that as it's only been mentioned a billion times.

Like i said in my last post, we simply don't know what kind of effect the Orion could possibly have.
If you consider that 1 O'Neill Class ship did no damage but scratch their shields (though their weapons presumably did no damage to the Asgard either) then we might be looking at the fact that the Orion is infact one of the only solutions to the Ori ship problem.

Another solution is hijacking one of their ships and use it to fire on the other ones. I think it's actually a good possible solution the writers will use.

section33
April 6th, 2006, 09:42 AM
as a last resort with an ori fleet they could just detonate that tainted zpm...of course that really has nothing to do with the question could an Aurora class ship defeat an Ori warship?

IcyNeko
April 6th, 2006, 01:51 PM
And we know nothing about how well that would work, either.

AdamRLeggett
April 6th, 2006, 06:15 PM
Not a chance. If it did..the story would be way too inconsistent. Even the Orion would get wasted...

Even though we've never seen an Atlantean ship in action..think about this....

Atlantean knowledge....vs....Ori ascended knowledge....

Besides...the Orii ship looks like it uses some special power source..maybe similar to a ZPM. It's the white glowing fuzz in the center of the ship..totally cool. I'm sure the ship has it's draw backs since it was probably a rushed job....just like the satellite that destroyed Prometheus.
I've got to agree. The orion is a pre-ascension ship. The Ori ships are built using ascended knowledge.

Amanda Eros
April 6th, 2006, 09:16 PM
I think a good idea would be to have the Daedalus bring over several Puddle Jumpers fully equipped with drones and have them in it's bay. Then have the Daedalus jump to a location not to far from the Orii ships. Launch the Puddle Jumpers and have them go in with their cloaks up. All at the same time have them launch their drones and then have them raise their cloaks and make a hasty retreat. If they are afraid of doing this with an Orii ship have them test it with that satellite in the Ethon episode.

At least then we'll know if Ancient tech and Orii tech are similar or not. Remember Anubis built his ship using Ancient assended knowledge, but the drones ripped it apart.

Avatar28
April 6th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I've got to agree. The orion is a pre-ascension ship. The Ori ships are built using ascended knowledge.

Yes but you're assuming
A) that the Ori could be bothered further pursuing their scientific knowledge. I don't think they were all that hot on science and wouldn't spend much at it.

B) that this more advanced technology could be built and assembled by an agrarian society with no scientific or technical training using locally available materials

C) that the ship built using said materials and techniques is superior to technology built by and using the materials of the most advanced race known to have existed.

***SPOILER SPACE: Here be spoilers for Ethon and the Siege pt 1.***











I hold out exhibit A) The Rand Protectorate weapons platform. Built using designs given to the by the Ori by a society that is WAY more advanced than the one building the Ori ships

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/ethon0192-small.jpg

Notice the dull reddish/orange color. It takes the beam multiple shots to destroy the Prometheus, not a particularly big ship by any standard, even though it seemed to penetrate the shields without difficulty.

Now exhibit B) The ancient defense satellite in the Atlantis system.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/atlantis1x19azzc103-small.jpg

Note here how the beam is a bright green color, probably containing more energy. Granted the hives don't have shields but the ship is many MANY times the size of the Prometheus and yet was destroyed in a single shot.

jla0
April 7th, 2006, 06:54 AM
It's called the Orion, the Aurora self destructed. Perhaps you should try to grasp that as it's only been mentioned a billion times.

Like i said in my last post, we simply don't know what kind of effect the Orion could possibly have.
If you consider that 1 O'Neill Class ship did no damage but scratch their shields (though their weapons presumably did no damage to the Asgard either) then we might be looking at the fact that the Orion is infact one of the only solutions to the Ori ship problem.

Another solution is hijacking one of their ships and use it to fire on the other ones. I think it's actually a good possible solution the writers will use.

Hate to blow your bubble but the Asgard ship was a SCIENCE Vessel! NOT an O'Neil Class ship.

Catalase
April 7th, 2006, 08:11 AM
Hate to blow your bubble but the Asgard ship was a SCIENCE Vessel! NOT an O'Neil Class ship.
Hate to blow your bubble, but it's an O'Neill. There's a dozen threads on this already with screencap comparisons. It only LOOKS small because the special effects guys flubbed the scaling to make the Ori ships look more impressive.

AdamRLeggett
April 7th, 2006, 12:46 PM
Yes but you're assuming
A) that the Ori could be bothered further pursuing their scientific knowledge. I don't think they were all that hot on science and wouldn't spend much at it.

B) that this more advanced technology could be built and assembled by an agrarian society with no scientific or technical training using locally available materials

C) that the ship built using said materials and techniques is superior to technology built by and using the materials of the most advanced race known to have existed.

***SPOILER SPACE: Here be spoilers for Ethon and the Siege pt 1.***











I hold out exhibit A) The Rand Protectorate weapons platform. Built using designs given to the by the Ori by a society that is WAY more advanced than the one building the Ori ships

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/ethon0192-small.jpg

Notice the dull reddish/orange color. It takes the beam multiple shots to destroy the Prometheus, not a particularly big ship by any standard, even though it seemed to penetrate the shields without difficulty.

Now exhibit B) The ancient defense satellite in the Atlantis system.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/Avatar28/atlantis1x19azzc103-small.jpg

Note here how the beam is a bright green color, probably containing more energy. Granted the hives don't have shields but the ship is many MANY times the size of the Prometheus and yet was destroyed in a single shot.
I don't think ascended beings need to be 'all that hot on science' - unless I'm missing something I thought ascension immediately brought ultimate knowledge to the playing field. (I certainly recall some off the cuff comments from Ascended Daniel saying he understood everything).

I agree the Ori ship construction might be limited by supplies available on the planets where the ships are built - but have to believe the shields and weapons are probably first rate.

AtlantisForever
April 7th, 2006, 02:03 PM
well i dont recon a Aurora class warship could destroy the ori ship's as they are not powerful and it's weapon is a defensive weapon i recon... the ancient's must have more weapon's then drone's maybe the more powerful warship's can wipe out a whole fleet of ori ship's as the ori got there tech from the ancient's... Ori belived in Religion Ancient's (Alterian's cant remeber how to spell name) belived in Science.. there is no way they could advance from nothing... the ancient's had to make a great ship to leave there world from the ori..

IcyNeko
April 7th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Let's try this again, with words...


well i dont recall that an Aurora class warship could destroy the ori ship's as they are not powerful and its weapon is a defensive weapon if I recall... the ancient's must have more weapons than drones. Maybe the more powerful warships can wipe out a whole fleet of ori ship's as the ori got their tech from the ancients... Ori belived in Religion; Ancients (Alterians cant remeber how to spell name) believed in Science.. there is no way they could advance from nothing... the ancients had to make a great ship to leave there world from the ori..

Dude, take some grammar classes. YOur mistakes are things that you shouldn't be making after 6th grade.

Also, there's nothing that we've seen so far that shows the true power of an Aurora-class warship. We knows it has, at the very least, drones. We don't know what other wonders it has.

The Aurora was damaged after engaging Wraith in combat. There's no saying that they lost because they were weak. It could be that they were fighting multiple Wraith warships at once. We don't know.

The Ancients were pretty advanced when they left the Orii galaxy. it's possible that the Orii ships represent the technical marvel that was available to the ancients at the time they left. It's also possible that the Orii are using the very same "great ships" that the Ancients used ever so long ago.

dzineguy84
April 7th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Let's try this again, with words...



Dude, take some grammar classes. YOur mistakes are things that you shouldn't be making after 6th grade.

Also, there's nothing that we've seen so far that shows the true power of an Aurora-class warship. We knows it has, at the very least, drones. We don't know what other wonders it has.

The Aurora was damaged after engaging Wraith in combat. There's no saying that they lost because they were weak. It could be that they were fighting multiple Wraith warships at once. We don't know.

The Ancients were pretty advanced when they left the Orii galaxy. it's possible that the Orii ships represent the technical marvel that was available to the ancients at the time they left. It's also possible that the Orii are using the very same "great ships" that the Ancients used ever so long ago.

I believe that before you go around slashing people and telling them to correct their grammar, you should check your own spelling. ;)

And now resume the topic ... :)

IcyNeko
April 7th, 2006, 03:20 PM
How embarrassing! :D

Thanks for catching it. ;) There goes my "number of posts without a misspelling" record.

mahram
April 7th, 2006, 09:44 PM
well the thing is the scariest people are the people who belieave in religion. Alot of evil things have been done in the name of religion right. The ori belieave in religion, but it doesnt mean they wont create weopens of mass destruction to destroy unbelieavers. They would consider that an act of faith.



well i dont recon a Aurora class warship could destroy the ori ship's as they are not powerful and it's weapon is a defensive weapon i recon... the ancient's must have more weapon's then drone's maybe the more powerful warship's can wipe out a whole fleet of ori ship's as the ori got there tech from the ancient's... Ori belived in Religion Ancient's (Alterian's cant remeber how to spell name) belived in Science.. there is no way they could advance from nothing... the ancient's had to make a great ship to leave there world from the ori..

genius21
April 8th, 2006, 05:10 AM
the orian will win against a ori ship the ori have one weapon the huge laser and smaller turrets for defence the orian has drones satellite weapon and turrets so that ship has two powerfull weapons and people need to stop saying about ori used acendent knowladge for building there ship most of there knowladge will not even work in this realm ancension doesn't make you all powerfull and knowing and the ori are religgion faction the ancients were a science faction merlin build a weapon that could defeat acendent beings the orian would win.

metroid
April 8th, 2006, 02:09 PM
the orian will win against a ori ship the ori have one weapon the huge laser and smaller turrets for defence the orian has drones satellite weapon and turrets so that ship has two powerfull weapons and people need to stop saying about ori used acendent knowladge for building there ship most of there knowladge will not even work in this realm ancension doesn't make you all powerfull and knowing and the ori are religgion faction the ancients were a science faction merlin build a weapon that could defeat acendent beings the orian would win.

Have you heard them say on the show that the Orion has these weapons?
I know i haven't heard them say it. So unless they do, the Orion doesn't have it, sure we may spot it on a picture but who's to say they aren't just broken?

Also while your right that ascended beings aren't all knowing they did infact make sure the ships are built to the specifications because let's face it, the farmers didn't design it. I however do think that the ship was entirely made from technology they had when they were one and the same as the Alterans (so about 50 million years old (i think that was the approx age of the gate on earth?)).

However, even if the Ori did have all the knowledge they need to make invincible ships, they knew what ships we had (they atleast knew about prometheus) when they read Daniels mind. Somehow i think that they didn't find it needed to create an invincible ship because they knew that their opposition wouldn't be that strong.

the fifth man
April 9th, 2006, 12:13 AM
However, even if the Ori did have all the knowledge they need to make invincible ships, they knew what ships we had (they atleast knew about prometheus) when they read Daniels mind. Somehow i think that they didn't find it needed to create an invincible ship because they knew that their opposition wouldn't be that strong.

You make a good point. But personally, I think the Ori wouldn't want to leave anything to chance.

genius21
April 9th, 2006, 03:39 AM
everything about ships is speculation you see in a episode or a picture it doesn't mean anyone is right you speculate i hate it when people say you don't know they didn't tell DUH or we should know it's called speculation.

the ori live on a different level if they have ascendent knowladge it doesn't mean it can be put on our level becouse they have ascendent doesn't mean you can make your shields more powerfull shields are strong by how much power it's getting and how close it's projected to the ship.

the ancients came back to our world after pegasus they could have build new ships here you don't know but it's logical

but the ancient warship will win becouse they devoded (sorry if miss spelled)
there life to science not religion.if it's a day old or a million years old doesn't chance the power of one ship.

Avatar28
April 9th, 2006, 10:29 PM
I don't think ascended beings need to be 'all that hot on science' - unless I'm missing something I thought ascension immediately brought ultimate knowledge to the playing field. (I certainly recall some off the cuff comments from Ascended Daniel saying he understood everything).

I agree the Ori ship construction might be limited by supplies available on the planets where the ships are built - but have to believe the shields and weapons are probably first rate.

No, quite the opposite in fact. It was explictly stated that becoming ascended didn't automatically grant any knowledge. It just gave you more senses as it were, a better ability to comprehend it.

Think about it. If being ascended gave you ultimate knowledge then A) the Ancients would be spending their time trying to learn more and reach the highest levels of ascension and B) Merlin would have had to be researching his "device."

IcyNeko
April 9th, 2006, 10:38 PM
I think that ascending is like being granted access to the biggest library with a google search engine. DAniel always said.. the information is "all there.. just out there". So if they search for it, they'll get what they want. And being dead, time passes slowly, so... you can spend entire lifetimes searching knowledge and for us, only seconds pass. :)

Da Vikster the Ori
April 11th, 2006, 07:40 AM
i'm sticking with the fact that the aurora could win since it has drones, which from what we have seen already, can make short work of any ship (or fleet) regardless of shields.

The aurora's shields could be similar to an ori shield, but then again...

The Orion has dozens of turrets from what we hav seen, so i'm sticking with the Aurora, becuase an ori ship had a few pulse weapons and a large beam weapon, which may or may not be effective against ancient shielding.

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 09:03 AM
The Aurora is blown to pieces. :D

The only contest it's winning is the "Most spread out over a quadrant of space" contest. :D

Lonewolf
April 11th, 2006, 12:26 PM
i'm sticking with the fact that the aurora could win since it has drones, which from what we have seen already, can make short work of any ship (or fleet) regardless of shields.

The aurora's shields could be similar to an ori shield, but then again...

The Orion has dozens of turrets from what we hav seen, so i'm sticking with the Aurora, becuase an ori ship had a few pulse weapons and a large beam weapon, which may or may not be effective against ancient shielding.
Please the Aurora is gone...
Please call it Orion
Or the original name HIPPAFORALKUS

override367
April 11th, 2006, 12:39 PM
It is true the Ori are advanced, but as has been stated the vessels were assembled by farmers using the Ori's technology. The Orion was built by the ancients roughly 10,000 years ago, this is long after they parted ways and the Ancients continued to develop technology.

The Orion was built by the Ancients themselves, not their underlings, during the height of their technological prowess. We already know (from witnessing encounters between Wraith and Ancient weapons) that the Orion could probably take on a small fleet of Hive Ships and win, they lost the war because of a few reasons, none of which having anything to do with their technology.

1. Pacifists - The ancients abhore violence
2. Naive - Like the Tolan, the Ancients were naive and quite assured in their sense of self-superiority, this leads to #3
3. Tactics - The ancients had virtually no experience in warfare, they had a massive technological edge but most certainly lacked (in a simliar way that the Asgard do) a sense of tactics and aggression.

I believe that (fully repaired, of course) the Orion would be much better off in the hands of the Humans of Earth than the Ancients, as the Ancient's answer to the wraith was simply to build as many big honking space guns as they could and hope they prevailed, and the Human answer is to beam a friggin nuclear bomb onboard a hive ship - the Ancients simply didn't think like that.


I'd be willing to wager if we ever saw em duke it out that, at the very least, the Orion could punch a few holes in the pretty white paint of an Ori vessel.


The real question is, could a fleet of a dozen or so O'niell class warships and the Orion take out 3 Ori toilet ships? Here's a better question, why didn't the fleet sent to stop the O'ri focus fire on a single ship?

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Getting Russians to co-operate with Americans? Getting Tok'Ra to listen to Ta'uri? Getting Free Jaffa to work with Tok'Ra and listen to the Tau'ri? Getting Teal'c and the Lucian alliance to show up on time?

You're asking for an awful lot... ;)

One other thing I wanted to point out... Wraith tactics are.. send a pair of hives. If they get taken out, send an armada. Then send in more. and more and more.

Weir'd Siege lasted 5 days, and they sent 2 hives on wave 1, 12 on wave 2. The Lantiens were sieged for YEARS, Decades, maybe CEnturies. The Wraith probably brought all their ships into play.

THe Daedalus's shields went down after a bombardment of 10 hive ships for a few minutes. Even if the Lantien shields are stronger, if 30 - 50 hive ships were shooting at it all the time, the shields would eventually start dropping.

Sam fisher
April 16th, 2006, 08:15 AM
This is what I think will happen if the Orion goes against a Ori ship. The Orion will launch her drones and the drones penetrate the Ori shields...... and smash against the hull.

jazz!
April 16th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Getting Russians to co-operate with Americans? Getting Tok'Ra to listen to Ta'uri? Getting Free Jaffa to work with Tok'Ra and listen to the Tau'ri? Getting Teal'c and the Lucian alliance to show up on time?

You're asking for an awful lot... ;)

...

But something like that happening would be quite epic! :D

Enemies untiting against a common foe, in a Counter-Strike to preserve freedom :D

O'Neill4prez
April 16th, 2006, 12:06 PM
I think the Aurora could defeat an Ori Warship but it would be a close call:sheppard: