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    A reason why the Ancients might be the bad guys after all

    In the Fourth Horseman Pt 2 the Prior that got disabled began preaching to Orlin when Orlin begun to speak. Naturally we all listened to Orlin and tuned out to what the Prior was saying... but he did say some very important stuff.

    Now, I'm at work so I can't really look up his exact words... But he said that the O'ri were born from the rift (no doubt the moment the Alterrans split off) and that the Alterrans travelled the universe and spread death and destruction wherever they went, hence evil. What if the O'ri are destroying the Ancients in as a precautionary measure to protect themselves? Let's look at what the Ancients brought the Universe.


    1. The Wraith - Space vamps with a bad attitude. Death and destruction.

    2. The "groundhog day" device - A device that loops time. Pure chaos here, ignoring of course the theory that it was made to come up with a cure for the plague

    3. The Dakara weapon - WMD of the great scale we've seen so far

    4. The Holy Grail - Anti-ascendant WMD, ignoring of course that it was made by a rogue Ancient

    5. The Asurans - a freaky spin off of a virus

    6. The gate network - Ultimately allowing the Goa'uld to take control of the entire galaxy. I doubt their homeworld would've given them this capacity alone.

    7. The gate warping device Anubis used


    Now, my theory is that the Ancients like fighting... and so they go around picking fights and creating enemies. It's possible even that the Wraith and O'ri were the only enemies capable of overpowering them. *shrugs*

    Either that or the Ancients just had so many misguided scientific ventures that went wrong. After all, one would have quite a few mistakes after a few million years of advancement. The O'ri seem like the kind of race that would've ascended through meditation and spiritual means.

    #2
    interesting theory, I mised that episode, so I'll make sure to catch it if it is on again
    http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9...sigcopy9ie.jpg
    The Alliance is born!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by thenimf
      Either that or the Ancients just had so many misguided scientific ventures that went wrong. After all, one would have quite a few mistakes after a few million years of advancement.

      Yes, during the course of 50 million years you are bound to make a few mistakes.

      Comment


        #4
        But it will be interesting to see if the Ancients are somewhat evil. Would make an EXCELLENT story arch.

        Comment


          #5
          1. The Wraith - Space vamps with a bad attitude. Death and destruction.

          2. The "groundhog day" device - A device that loops time. Pure chaos here, ignoring of course the theory that it was made to come up with a cure for the plague

          3. The Dakara weapon - WMD of the great scale we've seen so far

          4. The Holy Grail - Anti-ascendant WMD, ignoring of course that it was made by a rogue Ancient

          5. The Asurans - a freaky spin off of a virus

          6. The gate network - Ultimately allowing the Goa'uld to take control of the entire galaxy. I doubt their homeworld would've given them this capacity alone.

          7. The gate warping device Anubis used
          1. The Wraith were an accident, even if it were suspect about the Ancients claim that it was an accident, our experience with the near virulent nature of Iratus bug DNA lends itself to supporting the accident explanation.

          2. Chaos perhaps but how is it evil? You can not actually change the future because it is a loop and everything resets when the loop restarts

          3. The Dakara DEVICE was not a weapon. It was constructed after all or very near all life in the galaxy had been wiped out by the plague as a means to prepare the galaxy for recreation. Yes we used it as a weapon, but in the same way as someone can pick up a meat cleaver and chop someones head off. Does that make the meat cleaver a weapon in the same sense as a gun? No because its intended purpose in being created is to chop food for eating, not killing.

          4. We don't know exactly that it kills, we know that it interferese with the energy frequency that the Ascended exist at. For all we know it merely renders them harmless, in the same way Oma neutralized Anubis, niether is "dead" but they are locked in an eternal state where they neutralize each others ability to affect the universe.

          5. I dont remember the Asuran's who were they?

          6. Calling the gatenetwork evil because it allowed the goa'uld to take over the galaxy is like saying a company that paves roads is guilty of aiding and abetting a foriegn countries invasion because their tanks used the roads.


          If anything an argument can be made that the Ancients were irresponsible and arrogant because they left behind loads of technology that could cause harm in the wrong hands and arrogant because they feel that by Ascending that the consequences of their discoveries being used by other races are not their concern, but you can't consider them the bad guys. Litter bugs yes, evil no.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by spg_1983
            1. The Wraith were an accident, even if it were suspect about the Ancients claim that it was an accident, our experience with the near virulent nature of Iratus bug DNA lends itself to supporting the accident explanation.

            2. Chaos perhaps but how is it evil? You can not actually change the future because it is a loop and everything resets when the loop restarts

            3. The Dakara DEVICE was not a weapon. It was constructed after all or very near all life in the galaxy had been wiped out by the plague as a means to prepare the galaxy for recreation. Yes we used it as a weapon, but in the same way as someone can pick up a meat cleaver and chop someones head off. Does that make the meat cleaver a weapon in the same sense as a gun? No because its intended purpose in being created is to chop food for eating, not killing.

            4. We don't know exactly that it kills, we know that it interferese with the energy frequency that the Ascended exist at. For all we know it merely renders them harmless, in the same way Oma neutralized Anubis, niether is "dead" but they are locked in an eternal state where they neutralize each others ability to affect the universe.

            5. I dont remember the Asuran's who were they?

            6. Calling the gatenetwork evil because it allowed the goa'uld to take over the galaxy is like saying a company that paves roads is guilty of aiding and abetting a foriegn countries invasion because their tanks used the roads.


            If anything an argument can be made that the Ancients were irresponsible and arrogant because they left behind loads of technology that could cause harm in the wrong hands and arrogant because they feel that by Ascending that the consequences of their discoveries being used by other races are not their concern, but you can't consider them the bad guys. Litter bugs yes, evil no.
            1. Apart from heresay stories, no evidence suggests that this was an accident. In fact, the Wraith have so much relation to Ancient technology, and even share the same written language (virtually identical), so it's easy to connect the dots and see the Ancients made the Wraith on purpose.

            2. I find it pretty evil to cause chaos on purpose. You could kill someone everyday and they would never remember... crap like that.

            3. It is only theorized that device was used to restore all life in the galaxy... and if the Ancients covered up the Wraith I doubt they'd share the truth about this, considering it's a far more serious threat.

            4. Regardless of what it does to them, it is a weapon that interferes with the way they go about their business and in that sense it is capable of evil.

            5. Stand by for Season 3 of Atlantis ;-) These guys are probably related to Replicators

            6. Note that the Ancients did some time travelling and were aware that the Goa'uld would take over the galaxy one day, yet put no measures in place to prevent it. Also, they did nothing when they went back to Earth and Ra came over.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by spg_1983
              If anything an argument can be made that the Ancients were irresponsible and arrogant because they left behind loads of technology that could cause harm in the wrong hands and arrogant because they feel that by Ascending that the consequences of their discoveries being used by other races are not their concern, but you can't consider them the bad guys. Litter bugs yes, evil no.
              Thank you!

              Originally posted by thenimf
              5. Stand by for Season 3 of Atlantis ;-) These guys are probably related to Replicators
              If it's related to season 3 of Atlantis then it's spoiler information and needs to be contained in a [spoiler ] tag.

              Comment


                #8
                Hey Peeps, Yeh I think maybe the Asurans may be the new enemy in Atlantis. Maybe. But what an incredible story line linking ythe Asurans back to the S01 Ep "Hot Zone" and also to the Replicator story line as well. Hmmm. I like the ideas peeps.
                I HATE SY-FY

                Comment


                  #9
                  I feel we're not actually giving enough detail to justify spoiler tags. Though if a mod feels we are then I'll be happy to edit.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by thenimf
                    1. Apart from heresay stories, no evidence suggests that this was an accident. In fact, the Wraith have so much relation to Ancient technology, and even share the same written language (virtually identical), so it's easy to connect the dots and see the Ancients made the Wraith on purpose.
                    Not neccesarily. The story is that the Iratus bug attacked humans and became the wraith. The humans were created by the Ancients and would have had contact with them. The only technology and language around was that of the Ancients. So it is no surprise that in taking over and assimilating new technology and language into their new society it would be Ancient.

                    2. I find it pretty evil to cause chaos on purpose. You could kill someone everyday and they would never remember... crap like that.
                    How is it causing chaos on purpose? The story is that they created the device to give themselves more time to find a cure. Thats all it does. At first I agreed with you that it caused chaos but now on reflection I rescind that because it doesn't. Those caguht in the loop as a side effect dont even know they are, only the people that operate the device remain unchanged. If everyone that was affected remembered and kept looping THAT would be chaos, but there is no evidence that the Ancients used it in such a manner or that it can even be used in any harmful way.

                    3. It is only theorized that device was used to restore all life in the galaxy... and if the Ancients covered up the Wraith I doubt they'd share the truth about this, considering it's a far more serious threat.
                    No the device does nothing to restore life in the galaxy and although that is what most people believe and assume it is incorrect. Go back and rewatch the explanation of the device. it generates an energy way that breaks down all matter to its basic elements so that the life cycle can be restarted. there is no mention that the Dakaran device is the device that does the retarting and it is ludicrous to think that it is. It is an unfocused energy wave, it can not restart the diverse and specific ecologies of millions of planets, the ancients would have had to have other devices that they used on each planet to restart the life. The Dakaran device is just a reset button, thats all it was meant to be and the Ancients didnt try to obscure that fact. So nothing insidiuous there

                    4. Regardless of what it does to them, it is a weapon that interferes with the way they go about their business and in that sense it is capable of evil.
                    Is a jail cell for a violent criminal evil because it prevents them from going about their business? Same thing.

                    5. Stand by for Season 3 of Atlantis ;-) These guys are probably related to Replicators
                    If you are talking about the new enemy that is supposed to be the one that made the virus ok Im with you, but I havent seen any spoilers to say that they are Ancients themselves

                    6. Note that the Ancients did some time travelling and were aware that the Goa'uld would take over the galaxy one day, yet put no measures in place to prevent it. Also, they did nothing when they went back to Earth and Ra came over.
                    No we have evidence that ONE ancient did some time traveling, Janus. And the other Ancients were really pissed off when they found out that Weir came back in time with the device because they are really strict about not screwing with the time line. janus broke the rule on the one planet, possibly as an experiment, but we have absolutely no evidence that he did it anywhere else, or any other Ancients ever did it either, but based on the other Ancients reactions in "Before I Sleep" It is inceribly unlikely they did. When the Ancients returned from Atlantis they were few in number and would have arrived in Antartica. The would not have known of Ra if he was there yet, though it is unlikely since then there would have been two active gates with DHD's on the planet that would have caused problems. At the point that they returned the Ancient empire would have already disappeared so they would have been alone, the rest of their kind already Ascended. What was a hand ful of them supposed to do about the Goa'uld? Their kind had moved on, it was no longer their concern, the galaxy was a different place, so they went to join their race by Ascending. Perhaps its a bit apathetic towards the people left behind to suffer under the goa'uld, but certainly not evil.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      spg_1983, Agree to disagree I guess. Our contradicting points are all a matter of interpretation of the information we've been given thus far. I don't see a point in debating further, with you anyway.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Personally i think there has been enough evidence throughout both SG1 and SGA to concluded that they are not evil. A couple off the top of my head

                        - They were in that Alliance, one member was the Asgard. They don't strike me as the type of conspire with evil races

                        - In Aurora, they have shown they want to destroy they Wraith.

                        - The translation of the writing on the stairs of Atlantis (no idea if that is correct)

                        - Contact with ascended beings. They all seem pretty goodie goodie to me, and when know that ascesion doesn't automatically make you a good person.

                        - The Ancient in Antartica healed jack and from what i understand, sacrificed herself.

                        Sure they may have made mistakes and their technology may not have been used for it's intended purpose but that in no way makes them the bad guys.
                        An all new Stargate spinoff presents

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                        Comment


                          #13
                          I declare the winner of this thread: spg1983.

                          The reason? He rebuttles contained cogent thought.

                          I'm sorry nimf, but you made no cogent arguments for the Ancients being evil. Your entire hypothesis is built upon pure conjecture and a lack of sufficient evidence.

                          Spg1983 fired back with complete statements with official canon as his source, not personal opinion. His analogous argument (in reference to your fourth point) is a good one.

                          Simply put, the canon of the show, at this point, supports spg1983's point of view more than it does yours.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Bragi
                            I declare the winner of this thread: spg1983.

                            The reason? He rebuttles contained cogent thought.

                            I'm sorry nimf, but you made no cogent arguments for the Ancients being evil. Your entire hypothesis is built upon pure conjecture and a lack of sufficient evidence.

                            Spg1983 fired back with complete statements with official canon as his source, not personal opinion. His analogous argument (in reference to your fourth point) is a good one.

                            Simply put, the canon of the show, at this point, supports spg1983's point of view more than it does yours.
                            I'm sorry Miss Bragi, I'll structure arguments in future that account for your intellect. Go **** yourself.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The creation of the Wraith wasn't an accident it was negligence.

                              The Ancients aren't evil. The Ori certainly seem evil from what we've seen so far.

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