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Antimatter Sam
March 14th, 2006, 04:10 PM
How did the relatively unadvanced, (late 1600's early 1700's), society build the Ori ships?
They had no heavy manufacturing capabilities, no real technical skills neccesary to build them or the related facilities, electricity, foundries and mills of all sorts to support the construction project let alone the manpower to build those 4 monstrous ships.
It would be like us going to a third world village and asking them to build 4 Nimitz class aircraft carriers.

deadman
March 14th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Priors showed them how to.

jazz!
March 14th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Well, if the ORI can do *anything* they want in their 'own' galaxy then why not just use their ascended powers to just 'make' the ships
*poooooof* 1 brand-new toilet ship

However, i'm totally unsure if the Ori can do that.

In which case:

Well, if the ORI can do *anything* they want in their 'own' galaxy then why not just use their ascended powers to just 'make' the ships
*poooooof* 1 brand-new toilet ship

Even if the priors showed them how...they have none of the tools to necessary to build such an advanced ship...or build any mode of transport that doesn't involve a horse

Antimatter Sam
March 14th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Priors showed them how to.
Did the Priors also show them how to build steel mills, power plants, machine shops, possibly nuclear facilities or high energy labs, or the other thousands of ancillary facilities needed to build these ships?

deadman
March 14th, 2006, 04:47 PM
I am getting tired of hearing the Ori can do anything they want to in their own galaxy. They can not, and that is ignorant to think they can.

skytop
March 14th, 2006, 05:02 PM
You are missing the point.
Priors or not, you cannot teach a chimp to solve a calculus problem.

Religious based societies like the Ori are NON TECHNOLOGICAL. They are spiritual and not material or milateristic. Spirituality and prosylatizing activity is diametrically positioned to military aggression. The whole SG-1 program season Ori theme is seriously flawed.

The fact that the Orei are shown commanding the most advanced and militarily powerful ships in the universe is a total oxymoronic violation of artistic license.

The show has lost its guiding compass. With the loss of the original team, this show has continued to slide into oblivian. Be merciful, and pull the plug instead of spinning off more disastrous stargate shows. This is starting to stink of the Rodenberry curse.

IMForeman
March 14th, 2006, 08:39 PM
You are missing the point.
Priors or not, you cannot teach a chimp to solve a calculus problem.

Religious based societies like the Ori are NON TECHNOLOGICAL. They are spiritual and not material or milateristic. Spirituality and prosylatizing activity is diametrically positioned to military aggression. The whole SG-1 program season Ori theme is seriously flawed.

The fact that the Orei are shown commanding the most advanced and militarily powerful ships in the universe is a total oxymoronic violation of artistic license.

The show has lost its guiding compass. With the loss of the original team, this show has continued to slide into oblivian. Be merciful, and pull the plug instead of spinning off more disastrous stargate shows. This is starting to stink of the Rodenberry curse.


Just a bit OTT, doncha think? Not to mention guilty of a faulty analogy. This is not equivelent of a Chimp learning calculus. A chimp does not have a sophisticated enough brain to understand calculus. They lack the intellect. The people of the Ori galaxy are not lacking in intellect, they are merely lacking in education. If they are educated in what to do and how to do it, they absolutely can learn it. They only need to be taught. You can't teach a chimp, because they are physiologically incapable of learning these things. They only difference between a technological man and a non-technological man is education. That's it. Do you honestly think that if you could bring Archimedes forward in time to modern day that he couldn't be taught rocketry? He'd probably grasp it fairly quickly, might even improve a few designs here and there.

Oh... and historically speaking, many and bloody wars have been started over "spiritual" reasons. Look it up.

The Ori storyline is, IMHO, a very much more mature one than the Goua'uld.

jenks
March 14th, 2006, 09:19 PM
Nearly as silly as the Sodan making those personal cloaks from the writings of the Ancients...

the fifth man
March 14th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Just a bit OTT, doncha think? Not to mention guilty of a faulty analogy. This is not equivelent of a Chimp learning calculus. A chimp does not have a sophisticated enough brain to understand calculus. They lack the intellect. The people of the Ori galaxy are not lacking in intellect, they are merely lacking in education. If they are educated in what to do and how to do it, they absolutely can learn it. They only need to be taught.

I totally feel where you're coming from here. And I couldn't agree more. Those people would be capable, with a lot of assistance from the Priors. Something I'm sure they readily received.:) Besides, people need to calm down a bit. This show has had a lot of illogical things happen over the years. It is, afterall, Science Fiction.

thenimf
March 15th, 2006, 12:35 AM
You are missing the point.
Priors or not, you cannot teach a chimp to solve a calculus problem.

Religious based societies like the Ori are NON TECHNOLOGICAL. They are spiritual and not material or milateristic. Spirituality and prosylatizing activity is diametrically positioned to military aggression. The whole SG-1 program season Ori theme is seriously flawed.

The fact that the Orei are shown commanding the most advanced and militarily powerful ships in the universe is a total oxymoronic violation of artistic license.



A lot of wars, even religious ones, initiate progress. For example, new weapons are invented and such. I see no reason why the same can't apply on the show. The Priors came out and taught the people how to build new weapons to fight the enemy.



Also, I don't see concrete evidence that they don't have any machinery. Remember, the people live in 16th century homes... But that doesn't necessarily mean that the O'ri don't have technological things in place for situations like this. The populous is more likelily being kept primitive on purpose to prevent any kind of enlightenment.

Auralis
March 15th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Religious based societies like the Ori are NON TECHNOLOGICAL. They are spiritual and not material or milateristic. Spirituality and prosylatizing activity is diametrically positioned to military aggression. The whole SG-1 program season Ori theme is seriously flawed.

The fact that the Orei are shown commanding the most advanced and militarily powerful ships in the universe is a total oxymoronic violation of artistic license.


Strange, i wonder what all those crusades in the middle ages where about then....

Blitz
March 15th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Well, I agree with the coment about being OTT

But also

We've seen two, only two planets in a galaxy that Vala herself has stated has more...for all we know some of these planets are industrial planets....dont take anything for granted.

Prior_of_the_Ori
March 15th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Remember that their is a reason why we only see Ori ships near the end of the season, because they needed all that time to get primtive followers to help in the construction of ships. And seriously, what makes the Ori followers any different from the Jaffa? The Jaffa were on a similar level of belief and were used by the Goa'uld to help in the construction of their ships. So basically the Jaffa are also unrealistic then if you consider that line of thinking because they are a primitive level in development yet constructed something as powerful as Goa'uld ships as the direction of Goa'uld.

Lieutenant Colonel Davis
March 15th, 2006, 05:05 AM
I think maybe working the people to death so the Ori could make the deadline or some sort of mass movement with the Priors transfering knowleg into peoples heads so it would be a piece of cake for the people to bulid.

valha'lla
March 15th, 2006, 07:28 AM
In real life the romans and the egyptians built buildings which could pass modern safty standards with accreacy that was not seen again till modern times which still stand, in generall people from more primative times would have better enginering skills pluse the priors and monks probaly built the more advanced systems in celestic(spelling?)

Peoples_General
March 15th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Hmm... lets compare the Ori's religious society to that of our world.

The United States has a lot of religious people, yet we have tons of high tech stuff like F-22 fighters, supercomputers, and Nimitz Class carriers.

The fact that you should take into consderation is that there are plenty of scientists here and in other countries who believe in both science and whatever religion they believe in.

So its not "impossible" for the Ori to have what they have as well as pass that along to their followers. Technology does not negate a god-figure, nor religion itself.

Look at the Alterans themeselves. They practiced a spiritual ritual such as meditation to reach ascension, yet they have the most advanced tech in the StarGate universe's races.

LIGHT
March 15th, 2006, 11:00 AM
if you look when vala shows the ships for the 1st time when they were built, those ships were hold together by wooden planks...

greatbaal'soffire
March 15th, 2006, 12:33 PM
the knowledge to built the advanced ship can be give to human's as in season 5 ascension where orlin had given the knowledge to the people of that world so that they can build that great big honking space gun whan the g'ould came.
so why can't it be the same with the ori, they give the knowledge to the people of how to built the ship's and side operation's to build it then just wipe there memories or kill them when done

FallenAngelII
March 15th, 2006, 01:02 PM
Well, if the ORI can do *anything* they want in their 'own' galaxy then why not just use their ascended powers to just 'make' the ships
*poooooof* 1 brand-new toilet ship

However, i'm totally unsure if the Ori can do that.

In which case:

Well, if the ORI can do *anything* they want in their 'own' galaxy then why not just use their ascended powers to just 'make' the ships
*poooooof* 1 brand-new toilet ship

Even if the priors showed them how...they have none of the tools to necessary to build such an advanced ship...or build any mode of transport that doesn't involve a horse

Ascended beings don't have powers like "Think and so shall it be". Making their followers build ships is easy. They know how to work metal. All you have to do is give them the tools and tell them "You, your job is to fuse these thingies with those thingies!".

An Ancient
March 15th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Look at the start up sequence when the ships power up, there is a factory right there

Darth Eddy
March 15th, 2006, 04:29 PM
It is not a matter of whether or not the people are educated or not. They have to be able to understand the information to but it to use. Also, the technology of the Orii ships is way beyond anything we humans could come up with on a level that we have almost no understanding of. You can tell a person that electrons have a spin of 1/2 but they won't be able to do anything with that knowledge unless they understand it.

The Orii humans are way below our technological level and we can just figured out quantum physics just twenty to fifty years ago. Understanding the universe isn't something that every human is capable of. Human intelligence has slowly evolved over the years in small was so our brains are not flooded in information. Even just a hundred years ago humans were not as smart as we are now.

There is just no way you can take people at the level of the Renaissance and teach them advance calculus, quantum mechanics, and many things beyond that.

IMForeman
March 15th, 2006, 05:07 PM
It is not a matter of whether or not the people are educated or not. They have to be able to understand the information to but it to use. Also, the technology of the Orii ships is way beyond anything we humans could come up with on a level that we have almost no understanding of. You can tell a person that electrons have a spin of 1/2 but they won't be able to do anything with that knowledge unless they understand it.

The Orii humans are way below our technological level and we can just figured out quantum physics just twenty to fifty years ago. Understanding the universe isn't something that every human is capable of. Human intelligence has slowly evolved over the years in small was so our brains are not flooded in information. Even just a hundred years ago humans were not as smart as we are now.

There is just no way you can take people at the level of the Renaissance and teach them advance calculus, quantum mechanics, and many things beyond that.


You are making sweeping generalizations here. True, not everyone would be able to be taught it, but there are some people among the Ori followers who would have the brains to grasp it, who would be able to learn the really complex bits with someone to teach them. Others just need to be taught at a "insert tab a into slot b" level of tuition.

There are absolutely people from around the renaissaince who could have learned anything we know now if they were taught. Think DaVinci was a moron, do you? There were people who did know calculus in the Renaissance. In fact, it seems to have been first been used in about 200 BC by the Greeks. Archimedes was mathematically brilliant. He's considered one of the best mathmeticians of all time. He made his own version of integral calculus.

There have been really smart people in just about any large group of people. Given education and time these folks could have learned anything. The Ori followers undoubtably have a wide range of brain capacity as well. And as pointed out by another poster above, Ascended beings have the capacity to "communicate knowlege" to those below as Orlin did with the people of the destroyed world in "Ascencion."

Darth Eddy
March 15th, 2006, 05:20 PM
While that is all true. But the more people know, the more they will question the divinity of their gods. Albeit, the Orii followers have a much stronger belief in the divinity of their gods, but they will still be likely to question why the enemy is considered evil and whether they should be helping to fight a war with an enemy they know nothing about.

Also the only know about Archimedes and Da Vinci because they were such exceptional people. Both of them had much father advanced brains then the people of their time, but they still had to work to achieve their level of excellence. It was not that they were born with the ability to do what they did, but throughout their life they developed to their full capabilities.

In the case of Orlin, he communicated the knowledge to the scientists of that world, who were eventually able to comprehend the knowledge given to them. But I very much doubt that in a society were almost all of the population has no greater understanding's of math of science that they could be influenced to build such grand ships in nine months, unless the Orii can dabble with time so that their society can advance that far in nine months.

But through no natural way can an entier society be put to use building such grand ships. Many of them probably couldn't even handle all of the information, and those the could would be to few to build the ships. But the Orii could just munipulate the genes of the population so they could al understand it.

Prior_of_the_Ori
March 15th, 2006, 05:28 PM
You are really assuming that to build something you must understand it. There can be occassions when you can tell a person to build something but they don't understand it, they are just following the orders of the other person. So say a Prior is there he tells the people to build something, he won't explain it to them and attempt to educate them. No, he will just tell them what to do with what stuff and where to put it in the end. Plus we don't know if everything is done by the hands of the followers, its possible some of the stuff is done by automated machines like nanites which are used to do a majority of the work and the followers would think its magic.

Darth Eddy
March 15th, 2006, 05:35 PM
That is completely true. But first they the Orii would have to get some people to understand the technology because otherwise, they would just be giving a society very very advance weapons which goes agianst the Ancients directive of none interferrence.

Auralis
March 15th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Thats what priors are for.

2ndgenerationalteran
March 16th, 2006, 01:17 AM
its an assembly line, all you need to do is know what step you have to take. you dont think they built it on all the steps do you? the priors probably organized it and when the next stage came took them and told them to do another stage. hey if the priors know this much if we could catch one nuetralize its powers and find ways to probe its mind we would learn alot

Lord Dannos
March 16th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Hmm, I think one of two things. Either the nano-forge concept that was suggested further up this page, where components are prefabricated and assembled, only requiring the slaves for moving pieces into place, before they integrate themselves. Or the Priors radiate knowledge somehow; after all, they are psychic to an extent, maybe Ori knowledge is transferred through them like a beacon. Then everyone just does everything on auto pilot, constructing a ship without really understanding what it is they are doing.

the fifth man
March 16th, 2006, 12:47 PM
Or the Priors radiate knowledge somehow; after all, they are psychic to an extent, maybe Ori knowledge is transferred through them like a beacon. Then everyone just does everything on auto pilot, constructing a ship without really understanding what it is they are doing.

That possibility really sounds cool to me. And it could very well be the case, to some extent.:)

The Ori
March 16th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Hey peeps, to be honest it's true the Ori story line is a lot more mature, u got that right. I think that it's an incredible story line to go thru a few seasons, but I am disappointed in the Ori warriors, they are just normal peeps with those staff like weapons not actual tru warriors, If they were like the crzy Sodan man killin evry1 but bit more controlled then that wud be heavy.

TjomasC
March 17th, 2006, 05:14 AM
My view: robots!

If you think about it, all the ori followers had to do is put together some robots, which, if you've done electronics, can be done using plans, and assembled piece by piece. After they've done that, probably using the more smart members of the population, the robotic factories simply build the more complex parts, after being programmed by the Priors. Then assemble by numbers under the guidence of formen who have been sent to celestis or whereever for training.

I know it sounds a bit far fetched they could do it so quickly, and no offence to my old electronics group, if some of them can assemble a working circuiy after ignoring the teacher up untill the last 2 weeks of the course, the Ori's fanatical followers could do the same!

Tnarg
March 17th, 2006, 07:19 AM
Prior: This is called a hammer, this is called a nail, hold nail here, hit hammer here, grab new plank, repeat.
Follower: ok.

we know the monks in clestis are priors in training, how do we know that the Doci don't get their knowledge from the Ori and then tell the monks and priors to build it in celestis and then transport the moduals to the build site where the followers just put it together, I'm sure the Ori would have ways of easily transporting modules from one location to another.

as it was said, slaves were used to build massive structures like roman buildings, the pyrimids of egypt and Jaffa were able to construct massive motherships with help from goa'uld managing them and none of this was ever questioned before.

honestly, if the proirs just tell them to insert slot A into Slot B, then take this bolt and bolt it into place and the Ori will be pleased, they could do it.

Aither
March 17th, 2006, 08:43 AM
Look at the start up sequence when the ships power up, there is a factory right there
Yes ! That is what I was going to say before I see it was already said. It can also be seen in the trailer for "Crusade".