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DestroyAscendedBeings
March 9th, 2006, 06:56 PM
so why do the ori want absolute devotion from their followers?
Are they trying to reach a higher plane (higher then ascention) Trying to get to the plane of the 1 true creator and god? (if their is one is the sg universe) or is it merly wanting more power to wipe out their enemys. Maybe the ori are on the right path but going about it the wrong way

DrMongol
March 9th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Well, the obvious reason is so they can control the galaxy, but you might have a point there. Maybe they need like a certain amount of followers to become more powerful.

DestroyAscendedBeings
March 9th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Im trying to look from an ascended ori view, why do i need more power if im infinte with unlimited power. They must have their goals and motives (even before they new about the milky way galaxy) they were still wanting power. So what is the next evolutionary step from ascention if their is one?

DrMongol
March 9th, 2006, 07:17 PM
I don't know, maybe a god among ascended beings?

PG15
March 9th, 2006, 08:06 PM
For one, they don't have unlimited power, and are not infinite, otherwise they could've destroyed the universe a few times by now.

As for your question...hmm...to fight the Ancients?

JanusAncient
March 9th, 2006, 08:11 PM
I think they want to destroy the Ancients, well this is obvious, but I also believe it to be more than this, bigger than their ascended conflict with the Ancients, the Ori ascended because of their waring nature, perhaps like it was said, they do feel the only way to reach further ascension is to do what they're doing, I don't really know if the Ori are on the right are wrong, from an ascension point of view, is there really any such thing as good, or evil, Oma killed those Jaffa, and the other Ancients wiped out one planet that we know of, so on that I'm not certain.

Kirath
March 9th, 2006, 08:16 PM
The ori want more power to destroy the ancients and probably any other ascended being who may try to thwart any other goals or plans they may have? The ori and the Ancients appear to be in a sort of cold war. Neirther side want a war at this point because they don't know if they would win. you notice the Ori don't actually act, they send their human priors to do their dirty work for them. i am beginning to suspect that like the other ascended the ori are subject to certain rules concerning their level of interaction with the lower planes of existence. some rules they bend, others they break the same way Oma Desala did.

DetriusXii
March 10th, 2006, 09:26 AM
The ori want more power to destroy the ancients and probably any other ascended being who may try to thwart any other goals or plans they may have? The ori and the Ancients appear to be in a sort of cold war. Neirther side want a war at this point because they don't know if they would win. you notice the Ori don't actually act, they send their human priors to do their dirty work for them. i am beginning to suspect that like the other ascended the ori are subject to certain rules concerning their level of interaction with the lower planes of existence. some rules they bend, others they break the same way Oma Desala did.

No. It's quite hard relying on regulating rules on ascended beings. The Alterans don't like interfering because they don't want to become corrupted with absolute power. But like Chaya and Oma and the Ancients that intervened on Orlin's world, they're more than capable of using their power on mortals. It's pretty hard to justify that there are rules all ascended follow when we don't really know what the rules are. The Ori don't seem to follow any rules and would probably use their own ascended powers on invading ships if they wanted to. And they definately seem to be interfering in the mortal plane by giving Ori technology to their followers. In my opinion, the rules for dealing with mortal planes are the rules the ascended make for themselves. Since the Ori don't have any rules that we know of, there are no absolute rules that regulate ascended behaviour.

FallenAngelII
March 10th, 2006, 09:34 AM
so why do the ori want absolute devotion from their followers?
Are they trying to reach a higher plane (higher then ascention) Trying to get to the plane of the 1 true creator and god? (if their is one is the sg universe) or is it merly wanting more power to wipe out their enemys. Maybe the ori are on the right path but going about it the wrong way

Absolute devotion and blind faith to a religion that keeps its followers at a medieval state prevents its followers from progressing, from evolving sociality and biologically.

This way, no one will find science and ffigure out that the Priors are wrong and no one will ascend naturally.

Also, they need their worship to sap power from them in order to become stronger.

Kirath
March 10th, 2006, 09:38 AM
what i meant was that the Ori have not directly acted. They act through the Priors and their other human followers. they give knowledge and tech to the priors and they do the dirty work. they need more power to destroy the other ascended beings.

DetriusXii
March 10th, 2006, 10:01 AM
what i meant was that the Ori have not directly acted. They act through the Priors and their other human followers. they give knowledge and tech to the priors and they do the dirty work. they need more power to destroy the other ascended beings.

My guess is that if they pissed off the Alterans enough, the Alterans could possibly cycle through turns going into a locked combat against the Ori. The Ancients do ascend some groups of people with the notable case being Oma, but perhaps others cases such as the group in Epiphany. But even if the Ancients are fewer in number, I doubt any of the Ori would like to be perpetually engaged in combat with the Ancients. I don't think any of the Ori are willing to make that sacrifice. It's also possible that since the Ancients are more scientific (I'm going to try not to reference Arthur's Mantle since the Ori don't know about it), the Ancients may have spent their time studying the ascended plane rather than being drunk with power and from the Ori's perspective, may have technology to counter their status as ascended beings. They're ultimately wary of engaging the Ancients directly because I don't think they can assess the threat situation.

GhostPoet
March 10th, 2006, 11:08 AM
Well, we already know they feed off the lifeforce/energy of those that worship them. They do this in order to gain power. The more power THEY have...the less power the Ancients have. I think it's sort of like a balance. When one side gains in power/followers...the otherside weakens. They want to completely destroy the Ancients (as for why...no idea YET) and then rule.
They probably are just on a power-trip...thinking themselves to really BE gods. (where as the old snakeheads didn't believe it themselves for the most part)

Spell_Daemon
March 10th, 2006, 11:16 AM
I think that is a very smart idea!!! Makes absolute sense, I haven't really thought about it, but it was sitting in the back of my mind. It really doesn't make sense why they want total power, though it could just be like anything where people want absolute asurance that they will live, they love to control people, and the final reason they get something out of it, by what you have pointed out!

JUNIOR
March 10th, 2006, 11:49 AM
so why do the ori want absolute devotion from their followers?
Are they trying to reach a higher plane (higher then ascention) Trying to get to the plane of the 1 true creator and god? (if their is one is the sg universe) or is it merly wanting more power to wipe out their enemys. Maybe the ori are on the right path but going about it the wrong way

Well IMO they just want to finish what they started all those hundreds of thousands of years ago with the Ancients. We already know that they tried to wipe the Ancients out at least once. Althought it not explained exactly why, It is said that the Ori became very furvent in their beliefs and if they have this deep hatred of the Ancients this could be enough to get them to try and defeat them even after all these years. Now to do this they need to to sap energy from their followers (FourthHorseman part 2), and to make sure that they get their followers to give up this power I would have to assume that they would want absolute devotion just to be on the safe side.

DetriusXii
March 10th, 2006, 12:27 PM
Well IMO they just want to finish what they started all those hundreds of thousands of years ago with the Ancients. We already know that they tried to wipe the Ancients out at least once. Althought it not explained exactly why, It is said that the Ori became very furvent in their beliefs and if they have this deep hatred of the Ancients this could be enough to get them to try and defeat them even after all these years. Now to do this they need to to sap energy from their followers (FourthHorseman part 2), and to make sure that they get their followers to give up this power I would have to assume that they would want absolute devotion just to be on the safe side.

The biggest problem I see is that the writers aren't telling us what powers the Ori get when being worshipped. For all we know, they could be on a telepathic high and ascended Ori may not be thinking clearly when on this high. I just don't understand what edge the Ori get from having worshippers, unless they are just omnipotent druggies and just want more.

LORD MONK
March 10th, 2006, 01:51 PM
They want more power to wipe out the Ancients.

Spell_Daemon
March 10th, 2006, 01:56 PM
I don't think its just to destroy the ancients. Definitly not... though they may hate them...

suppie
March 10th, 2006, 02:24 PM
It's actually quite simple:

- The ori needs more power to defeat the ancients..

Why? Well first of all the ancients dont needs followers to believe in them they have reached (what i think) a higher stage of evolution in ascending).

And as daniel said: I think the ori are a long way of posing the ancients any threat!

So what do you want to know more? :S

The Engineer
March 10th, 2006, 02:47 PM
Speculation: They can't get enough of it:p.

The Engineer
March 10th, 2006, 02:54 PM
Im trying to look from an ascended ori view, why do i need more power if im infinte with unlimited power. They must have their goals and motives (even before they new about the milky way galaxy) they were still wanting power.
So why does Bill Gates want more money? Let me tell you why. It's for the kicks:p, much like power, and power is the ultimate drug.

So what is the next evolutionary step from ascention if their is one?
The next step? That's a tough one. Could be many things: descension, fuel for the Daedalus, reincarnation, retirement. The question remains without an answer.

fani
March 11th, 2006, 07:06 PM
maybe the Ancients are at a higher plane of existence ( by slight margin ) over the Ori and are denying the Ori that knowledge of how to get there.

Ori figured/smuggled info that having more followers drains power granting them that higher plane of existence. But since Ancients oppose Ori joining their club, they want to get there and fight them out ?
This'll mean -
1. ori didn't lie when they said ancients don't give ascension knowledge out
2. ancients are slightly more powerful than Ori, hence Ori need followers to get more powerful.

FrizzleFry
March 12th, 2006, 05:44 PM
It could be that the Ori are at the same level of ascension as Anubis, who was always described as being partially ascended, or at some other level lower than where the Ancients are. Threads established that there are different levels of ascension.

I have been assuming that the Ori predate the Ancients, that the Ancients are heretics or rebels of the Ori. But what if the Ancients created the Ori? If in the past the Ancients helped others ascend and several of these people were megalomaniacs like Anubis and eventually became the Ori.

At some point the Ancients achieved a higher level of ascension which they were unwilling to share with the Ori. The Ancients also decided that they would not assist others to ascend, that only those who could ascend themselves were worthy. So the Ori created Origin to get some kind of power boost from their worshippers either to reach the next level or to destroy the Ancients.

My main problem with this scenario is that it seems the Ancients would have destroyed the Ori before they really became a threat. But they could have just ignored the problem until is was too late... like with the Wraith!!! Or maybe an ascended being cannot be destroyed, only cancelled like Oma did with Anubis.

Øsiris øf the Øri
March 12th, 2006, 06:09 PM
I think they still hold a grudge against the Alterans for leaving them behind and turning on them...I mean they had a war and the Ori won but the ancietns got away and then hid the existance of the children of the ancestors from them...i mean they seem to care about there mortla worshipers in a sense...if that makes sense, So there main goal is revenge they want to gain enough powere to wipe them out forever.

Atheists vs. Religous the religious almost wipe out atheism and the few who survive hide and "corrupt" others so they other side goes after them but the survivors get away they would feel cheated in there victory so they would hope to wipe out there enemy no matter the cost...So the Alterans cheat the ori in there victory and they are so wrathful of that, that they would abuse there creation to achieve a total victory

Bragi
March 12th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Have you not been watching the show at all this season?

They believe they should be worshipped by the lesser evolution of humans. The act of a person submitting their will to them allows the Ori to actually steal their life force (think Wraith for a very simple analogy), making them more powerful.

The Ancients believe the opposite, that the lesser evolution of humanity should not have any interference from the higher evolution. This was the main split between the two camps. The Ori declared holy war, and the Ancients fled.

We don't know who ascended first, but since the Ori are afraid to come to Milky Way at this time. It's likely that the Ancients either ascended first, or because their ascension was the result of philosophical meditaiton and scientific research, they are more powerful.

Remember that ascension is just the beginning of the journey. If you know the candle is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago. Ancients continue to reflect and research after ascension. It's likely that the Ori simply sit in Celstus and get worshipped, create the occasional thunderstorm to demonstrate their power and turn a few blind zealots into Priors.

The Ori have absolute power in their home galaxy. And they have a burning (literally burning) desire to see the Ancients destroyed. They don't want to share the power they have as ascended being with anyone, even their most devout followers. So they demand unconditional worship of their followers, so that they cannot come to ascension on their own.

Their desire to destroy the Ancients, and their desire to selfishly retain power are the two main reasons they demand absolute devotion. All of this has been made painfully obvious in several episodes, most notably Orlin's briefing in "The Fourth Horsemen part 1."

Øsiris øf the Øri
March 12th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Of course I've watched teh show adn though the ori wish to destroy the ancietns they believe strongly believe that they are keeping humanity from falling into the hands of evil(i.e. the ancients)

the fifth man
March 12th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Of course I've watched teh show adn though the ori wish to destroy the ancietns they believe strongly believe that they are keeping humanity from falling into the hands of evil(i.e. the ancients)

I don't buy that. The Ori know they're the ones in the wrong here. I have no doubt in my mind of that. They just have all of their followers brainwashed into thinking this crusade is a righteous one. The Ori are simply manipulating things in their favor.

PG15
March 12th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Hmm...I wonder, what if the Ori has Merlin's weapon, only to find out that it needs a lot of energy to make it work? It could be a safety feature, that only the Ancients (who I assume had greater energy when Merlin made the weapon) can use.

So now they have to charge themselves up so they can use the weapon on the Ancients!

Avatar28
March 12th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Well that might work, except that I think Daniel said the device is basically a sort of ZPM but instead of providing power to do work in our plane, it radiates all that energy out into the dimension that Ascend beings occupy, effectively neutralizing. It was stated to be sort of like having two waves being out of phase and cancelling each other, but I think a more apt analogy might be radar jamming. By filling their dimension with static, it basically prevents them from being able to do anything.

MarshAngel
March 13th, 2006, 06:13 AM
I think it's straightforward. Power, for power's sake. Why does anyone want power? Let's say for a moment they destroyed the ancients. Would they stop wanting humans to worship them and just leave them to their own devices? I don't think so. They'll continue to conquer more galaxies to increase their power.

But as long as opposition exists, their power isn't absolute. As long as someone has the ability to stand in judgement of them then they aren't all powerful, and they really want to be. I don't think it's personal, yes they have history with the ancients, but destroying them is a means to an end. The Ori aren't true gods if there are other beings with equal power of a different philosophy.

I think they believe it's their destiny and their right as ascended beings to rule over ALL lower planes of existence. They don't want to be like gods. They want to BE god. absolute power = absolute control, no opposition.

Egraine
March 13th, 2006, 07:47 AM
I don't buy that. The Ori know they're the ones in the wrong here. I have no doubt in my mind of that. They just have all of their followers brainwashed into thinking this crusade is a righteous one. The Ori are simply manipulating things in their favor.

Yup.

I think they are energy vampires....sucking the life out of their priors to become stronger. Every time they wipe out a race...they become stronger.

Makes you wonder, though...if they run out of beings to suck dry...will they just run down like a car out of gas? ;)

Avatar28
March 13th, 2006, 10:30 PM
I think it's straightforward. Power, for power's sake. Why does anyone want power? Let's say for a moment they destroyed the ancients. Would they stop wanting humans to worship them and just leave them to their own devices? I don't think so. They'll continue to conquer more galaxies to increase their power.

But as long as opposition exists, their power isn't absolute. As long as someone has the ability to stand in judgement of them then they aren't all powerful, and they really want to be. I don't think it's personal, yes they have history with the ancients, but destroying them is a means to an end. The Ori aren't true gods if there are other beings with equal power of a different philosophy.

I think they believe it's their destiny and their right as ascended beings to rule over ALL lower planes of existence. They don't want to be like gods. They want to BE god. absolute power = absolute control, no opposition.

I think that's it, exactly. Have some green.


I think they are energy vampires....sucking the life out of their priors to become stronger. Every time they wipe out a race...they become stronger.

Makes you wonder, though...if they run out of beings to suck dry...will they just run down like a car out of gas?

Nah, they'll just create more. Besides, they don't suck the life energy out the same way the wraith do. In fact, they can't take it period. It has to be willingly given up to them. Hence the reason for Origin and having all these worshippers. If they could take it, they wouldn't bother going to all the trouble, they'd just let the people live out their merry little lives however they wanted to and feed off them anyways.

JUNIOR
March 16th, 2006, 10:53 PM
maybe the Ancients are at a higher plane of existence ( by slight margin ) over the Ori and are denying the Ori that knowledge of how to get there.

Ori figured/smuggled info that having more followers drains power granting them that higher plane of existence. But since Ancients oppose Ori joining their club, they want to get there and fight them out ?
This'll mean -
1. ori didn't lie when they said ancients don't give ascension knowledge out
2. ancients are slightly more powerful than Ori, hence Ori need followers to get more powerful.

Here’s my theory: They're both on equal planes off existence (Ascension-wise) but two factors come into play sheer numbers, and individual power. The Ancients, over the thousands and thousands and thousands of years that they have been Ascended, as a whole have been helping people Ascend (Oma) and letting people who know how to ascend join them. The Ori on the other hand (as far as we know from Orlin) don't help are want people to ascend, because then they'd have to share power. So IMO the Ancients have far greater numbers but the Ori as individual beings are probably more powerful than Ancients as individual beings, but not more powerful than the Ancients as a collective and that’s why they're trying to get more power in order to get the advantage on the Ancients then destroy them and finish the war between them that happened all those years ago.

Avatar28
March 17th, 2006, 02:52 AM
Yeah, that really makes a lot of sense. Except that we've yet to see any direct examples of the Ori's power so it's hard to tell.

MarshAngel
March 17th, 2006, 04:56 AM
Here’s my theory: They're both on equal planes off existence (Ascension-wise) but two factors come into play sheer numbers, and individual power. The Ancients, over the thousands and thousands and thousands of years that they have been Ascended, as a whole have been helping people Ascend (Oma) and letting people who know how to ascend join them. The Ori on the other hand (as far as we know from Orlin) don't help are want people to ascend, because then they'd have to share power. So IMO the Ancients have far greater numbers but the Ori as individual beings are probably more powerful than Ancients as individual beings, but not more powerful than the Ancients as a collective and that’s why they're trying to get more power in order to get the advantage on the Ancients then destroy them and finish the war between them that happened all those years ago.
It's a good theory. 50 million years is a very long time to hold a grudge about corporeal differences though and still want to destory them for it. I'm sure that's the original source of their hate, but given the fact that they haven't, to our knowledge, tried to knock each other off for the last 50 million years I'd have to say they've developed a more significant reason for wanting to get rid of the ancients other than the original. After all, they've suffered this long with their existence, what's another 50 million years of cold war?

I just can't see them winning and being content with the power they've got. So either they can take the ancients power once they've destoyed them or they have access to more if they're gone.

JUNIOR
March 17th, 2006, 09:49 AM
It's a good theory. 50 million years is a very long time to hold a grudge about corporeal differences though and still want to destory them for it. I'm sure that's the original source of their hate, but given the fact that they haven't, to our knowledge, tried to knock each other off for the last 50 million years I'd have to say they've developed a more significant reason for wanting to get rid of the ancients other than the original. After all, they've suffered this long with their existence, what's another 50 million years of cold war?

I just can't see them winning and being content with the power they've got. So either they can take the ancients power once they've destoyed them or they have access to more if they're gone.

Yeah you're probably right there’s probably some plot twist or new piece of information that the SGC will discover which will explain better why the Ori want to destroy the Ancients. IMO they should do a whole or at least half an episode on this. It could be kinda like crusade except instead of Vala explaining the events that unfolded they can have an Ancient or some third party that was witness to the Ancient/Ori split. They could tell the story and show the events as they took place up until the part when the Ancients left the Ori galaxy. This would be a very interesting episode to see in my opinion.

Giantevilhead
March 18th, 2006, 03:51 AM
We still don't know how the Ori gain power from their followers. Even with the whole ascension, higher planes of existence thing, it's still way too weird. I don't know how they explain it without using magic or comic book logic. Although I wouldn't be too surprised if it all turned out to be a grand experiment conducted by ascended beings considering how they view non-ascended beings as little more than insects. The Ori believe in religion and the Ancients believe in science, it's more or less faith vs. logic, fate vs. free will.

nodrog
March 18th, 2006, 04:08 AM
I think the answer to this is pretty simple. In my opinion the ori are self-absorbed and enjoy the joys of having power. Having power is like a drug, it is very addictive when you can control people's lives like toys. I know ahah sometimes because I do this in age of empires or simcity. I think they only reason they want more power is to have more power.

Giantevilhead
March 18th, 2006, 03:58 PM
Ascended beings view non-ascended beings as little more than insects. Does being able to control the lives of billions of insects like toys sound that appealing to you?

The Engineer
March 18th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Ascended beings view non-ascended beings as little more than insects. Does being able to control the lives of billions of insects like toys sound that appealing to you?
Do you play with bugs?!:eek:Do you get your kicks?!(I'm joking, of course)
I try to stay away from bugs, I hate them. If the situation demands I squash them. Very unpleasant to hear them pop.:eek: If the Ori like to play with bugs instead of matchboxes and dolls I guess I could define me as being Ancient if I were ascendent.

the fifth man
March 18th, 2006, 06:32 PM
The Ori want more power because they want to conquer all. To actually become what they pretend to be, all powerful. To actually be Gods.

PG15
March 27th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Ascended beings view non-ascended beings as little more than insects. Does being able to control the lives of billions of insects like toys sound that appealing to you?

Yeah...

Avatar28
March 27th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Ascended beings view non-ascended beings as little more than insects. Does being able to control the lives of billions of insects like toys sound that appealing to you?

Well, you know, ant farms are/were practically a childhood staple. :-) Besides, what if for every ant you had you got a bit of a buzz? Or got stronger or smarter or whatever? Would it be more appealing then?

DestroyAscendedBeings
March 29th, 2006, 06:09 PM
ants that are like drugs..
So the ori are addicts then
why must the ori and alterans think as one when their ascended? surely one ascended ori would see the errors of their ways. As some alterans have gone against the collective. Does Origin make them that blind

Rhire
April 9th, 2006, 08:32 AM
Maybe they want to recreate the universe in there image?

the fifth man
April 9th, 2006, 11:11 AM
They want more power because beings with great power always want to accumulate more.

IcyNeko
April 9th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Speculation: Spongebob Squarepants. Hear me out on this.

Back when the Ancients ruled the universe, some asshat had to go off and dumb the entire populace with some show about a sponge in the sea who wore pants. This idea was so bad that many people died from the stupidity (they call it a plague, I call it a crime against humanity). Since then, the technology was lost on Terra until a dig in Giza revealed its horrors.

Perhaps the Orii hope that by gaining power from their followers, they can fully eliminate the Spongebob threat once and for all... or at least destroy those who would promote such evil.