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thirdeyeblind105
July 22nd, 2004, 11:51 AM
Just something I've been thinking about lately...say we didn't start using the gate when we did, and instead waited until we were more advanced. How long would it take for us to develop technology that could defeat the goa'uld?(or atleast put up a decent defense agaisnt them) Obviously, no one really could know, but assuming we keep at our current rate and the goa'uld don't become much more advanced then they are, my guess is around 200 or 300 years. Any thoughts?

Ilios
July 22nd, 2004, 11:54 AM
I think 200 or 300 years is probably a good guess, maybe even a little less if we spend all our time on developing new technology.

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 11:58 AM
Well see technology advances only as fast as well as the society developing it functions. Here on Earth, well it's a huge mess. Everything takes forever and our society has no direction. So, I guess 100 would be sufficient.


*SPOILERS*
If you look at the Euronda, their society obviously had a very specific direction. So they were able to develop technologies much faster than we can. Also, the Aschen. They were very advanced and had a very specific purpose. We here on Earth, basically spend our lives twiddling our perverbial thumbs. :)

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 12:02 PM
That's a good question. So far, most scientists belive we cannot travel FTL, but....

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 12:08 PM
Yeah, well screw what science says. These are the same scientists taking pot shots at black hole theories and the same people that said that breaking the sound barrier would cause your eye balls to explode. :P

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 12:19 PM
The same scientists who were scared of steam engine trains because they thought the human body couldn't withstand speeds over 25 MPH? The same scientists who said there was nothing faster than the speed of light untill that infamous cesium gas experiment? Oh yeah, I see where you're going. There are physicists who theorize we could achieve FTL speeds, but so far, I have not heard of any succesful experiments with sending anything larger than an electron/proton/neutron at FTL speeds.

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 12:24 PM
Baby steps man, baby steps...

thirdeyeblind105
July 22nd, 2004, 12:26 PM
If you went back hundreds of years ago and asked scientists if you could make anything move faster than sound, you'd probably get the same reply as we're getting now with FTL. It's probably only a matter of time before we find some way to travel faster than light

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 12:27 PM
The heck with baby steps, I want quantum leaps. I want my own stargate or my own FTL capable spaceship darn it. (Yes, I severely lack in patience).

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 12:34 PM
Well all do buddy, we all do.... :/

po134
July 22nd, 2004, 12:37 PM
Even if we've really advance this 50 last years ... it was because of the cold war ... the USA spend lot of money to "fight" aigainst the russian :rolleyes: Since that we don't have developped a lot of new tech. ... I think 4-500years if u refer to years 1500 to 2000 ! the tech. is slow to devellop, because of the american capitalist ! They only spend money in research when we're in war ... other time they don't care ! :p

Damn capitalist ... :cool:

Elwe Singollo
July 22nd, 2004, 12:38 PM
Another factor would probably be the dark ages and such mentioned when we first met the Tollan's, but maybe this was mentioned above somewhere :o

po134
July 22nd, 2004, 12:46 PM
yes and they say this age ... was 800years long !

Then with my 4-500years im even not far enough !

Remember the Aschens they're probably our best evolutions ... [Technologicly: robot will make our food, we'll have different planet, very nice weapons; but without the crazy things :P] If u delete the fact that they're suckers ... I only speak technologicly ! Cause the Tollan do not interact really with other peoples ... we do ! :cool:

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 12:49 PM
Even if we've really advance this 50 last years ... it was because of the cold war ... the USA spend lot of money to "fight" aigainst the russian :rolleyes: Since that we don't have developped a lot of new tech. ... I think 4-500years if u refer to years 1500 to 2000 ! the tech. is slow to devellop, because of the american capitalist ! They only spend money in research when we're in war ... other time they don't care ! :p

Damn capitalist ... :cool:
I'm totally against capitalism... And you're right. The entire idea of capitalism is to make people consume, which makes people money so they can consume and so on and so forth. That's all you do in this system- consume. There's no advancing except for... *drum droll* MORE CONSUMER PRODUCTS! :mad:

I hate capitalism.

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 12:55 PM
So far, I think capitalism is the best method of advancing tech, especially with patents. Give people temporary monopolies on their inventions/ideas so theycan make a profit. It's an incentive based system, it gives people incentives to advance technology. Communisim, or a communal society, is a great idea in theory. The harder everybody works, the better off everyone becomes. However, we've seen it fail without capatilist reforms. On the same token, capatilist societies tend to fail without social reforms (US Great Depression anybody).

If you got a better system, you should tell it and get the world going on that instead.

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 01:00 PM
I'm socialist at nature. Everyone working for the better of all. But you damned humans are so greedy and selfish. I wish I was like...a hamster or something.

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 01:00 PM
LOL Hamster Nation! Before we know it, hamsters will far surpass human technology.

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 01:10 PM
They already surpass us everywhere else!

"The concept of humanity is but another testament that mankind will only achieve the bare minimum for himself."

thirdeyeblind105
July 22nd, 2004, 01:23 PM
First off, pure capitalism without regulations is absolutely terrible, but the mix of capitalism with a little bit of socialism works as good or if not better than any other system of economics. Bottom line, people need incentive to make better products, so how is capitalism not good for advances? Just look at the new space race going on here.

Secondly, it's difficult to make comparisons between Tollan, Aschen and us. We don't know how much more advanced they are than the goa'uld, so while they may be about 800 years ahead of us, they could easily be 500 years more advanced than the goa'uld. And it's also difficult to say how fast they advanced technologically. There are a lot of people here on earth, most likely more than on any other planet, which means we theoretically have the edge as far as technoloigical growth (more people=more circulation of ideas+more progress).

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 01:29 PM
Yeah but people in this country don't invent things to help others- they do it to make money!

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 01:30 PM
First off, pure capitalism without regulations is absolutely terrible, but the mix of capitalism with a little bit of socialism works as good or if not better than any other system of economics. Bottom line, people need incentive to make better products, so how is capitalism not good for advances? Just look at the new space race going on here.

I agree completely.

thirdeyeblind105
July 22nd, 2004, 02:22 PM
Yeah but people in this country don't invent things to help others- they do it to make money!

How does this affect things? Progress is still progress. Do you think the lightbulb, automobile, or any other recent revolutionary invention has been for helping people? Money gives people incentive, and if they help people along the way that's just and added bonus.

Joe Chen
July 25th, 2004, 01:33 AM
I'll just toss in my 2 cents on this.

Necessity is the mother of invention. Going under the original posed question, if we don't need to develop technology to fight the Goa'uld, we wouldn't know what direction to focus our military tech advances. If we don't find/use the gate, we wouldn't know what we'd need, we wouldn't encounter the items that jumps our tech level as we adapt weapons to our use, develop things by reverse engineering, etc.

Also under the original posed question, if we don't go out there and kick Gou'ald butts, Ra would still be alive, Anubis would still be conquering everyone, so since they're continuing to evolve their tech, I doubt we'd catch up without major quantum leaps of directed military tech advances.

-Joe

Anubis
July 25th, 2004, 01:39 AM
Also under the original posed question, if we don't go out there and kick Gou'ald butts, Ra would still be alive, Anubis would still be conquering everyone, so since they're continuing to evolve their tech, I doubt we'd catch up without major quantum leaps of directed military tech advances.

-Joe



I agree with your comments. Ra would still be hurting the people of Abydos and Anubis would still be gathering powerful technology. We really do need to watch out for whatevr we can get!

Iki-Ryo
July 25th, 2004, 02:06 AM
At the begining of the 20th century, electricity and indoor plumbig was a rare thing to find in a home, 104 years later the entire landscape of technology has chanded so much that most people that are old enough to remember being blown away at the first automobile struggle to comprehend modern telephones. If you really want to grasp how much we have advanced talk to someone over 70 years old (whos mind is still sharp) Technolody has grown exponentialy, each new new invention improves hundreds of existing technology and directly leads to the discovery of hundreds of new technologies. Communication technology has provided for greater and faster exchange of ideas and thus made a fertile enviromentfor advance ment.
People would argu what the ture basis of our technology is, i poersonaly think it is computers and look how far they have come in just the last 10 years alone, and they are only getting faster, stronger, and its happening quicker now than ever before. most technologies follow the pace set by computer technology.
Our technological advancement has not slowed, it only gains momentum every year. In 100 years we went from horse drawn carts to land vehicles capable of going 763.055mph and air craft capable of goingnearly 4 times the speed of sound, and space craft capable of going 25 times the speed of sound. If this trend continues, wich i find it hard to beleive it wont, i believe ftl travle in the next century is more that likely.

but im just a geek

Anubis
July 25th, 2004, 02:08 AM
You ar right. Computers 10 years back were very large. Everything is now made involving computers, well most things they simply can't be avoided.

For example, look how sleek Apple technology is!

Torley
July 25th, 2004, 04:08 AM
Technology moves fast, but not fast enough: often, when something is developed, it takes a considerable amount of time to phase it out due to $$$ and people just starting to get used to the "old" thing, and soforth. An example of this would be the desktop metaphor used on almost all computer operating systems (apart from Command Line Interfaces). It is getting dated and limits our ability to work in a more efficient way, but it is comfortable to us since we are used to it.

Goa'uld are master scavengers and killers, not a civilization of Einsteins and Edisons! What they got, they likely stole. I don't know how good they are at reverse-engineering, but assuming Ha'tak ships for one have kept the same form and functions (roughly) for about a few thousand years... that's a LONG time.

cobraR478
July 25th, 2004, 10:16 AM
I doubt the Goa'uld have advanced much, if at all, since they came into power. They haven't needed to until now. The only civilization that could have challanged them they have a treaty with. Unfortunately for them, Earth rocks :cool:

Anubis
July 25th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Yeah, the Gou'ald are still where they were 7 years back

Torley
July 25th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Yeah, save a few advances like Anubis' Ancients leaps and bounds. Apart from that, they should kidnap a planet full of inventors. I wonder what evil-Harlan from an alt-universe could have done for them? ;)

Iki-Ryo
July 25th, 2004, 06:22 PM
I doubt the Goa'uld have advanced much, if at all, since they came into power. They haven't needed to until now. The only civilization that could have challanged them they have a treaty with. Unfortunately for them, Earth rocks :cool:


That is completely untrue, Apophis ships were more advanced than the Pryimid ship from the Movie, Later Sokar developed a method to cloak goa'uld motherships that had been previously impossible as pointed out by Jakob Carter/Selmac when Apophis destroyed Heru'ur (apophis having gaind the technology after killing sokar) Nirrti developed personal cloaking technology that was not possesed by other system lords, they system lords have been at war with eachother for along time until recently when they joined forces so technological advances were not shared and are probably still not completely disclosed to rival lords

aschen
July 25th, 2004, 06:26 PM
Indeed. The Tok'Ra will always have a decisive disadvantage to the Goa'uld...and that just proves it.

LordAnubis
July 25th, 2004, 06:36 PM
First off, pure capitalism without regulations is absolutely terrible, but the mix of capitalism with a little bit of socialism works as good or if not better than any other system of economics. Bottom line, people need incentive to make better products, so how is capitalism not good for advances? Just look at the new space race going on here.

Secondly, it's difficult to make comparisons between Tollan, Aschen and us. We don't know how much more advanced they are than the goa'uld, so while they may be about 800 years ahead of us, they could easily be 500 years more advanced than the goa'uld. And it's also difficult to say how fast they advanced technologically. There are a lot of people here on earth, most likely more than on any other planet, which means we theoretically have the edge as far as technoloigical growth (more people=more circulation of ideas+more progress).
Neither the Tollan or Aschen are more advanced than teh Goa'uld; it was the Goa'uld who brought the Tolan to their world from Earth, so they are more advanced than the Tollan.

The main factor in our lack of development is religion; religion and mysticism (See Ayn Rand) have kept up backwards, primitive, and dull. This planet is populated by morons who pray to Jesus (Mohummed, Satan, Zeus, or whoever) every night rather than use their brains. Just walk in any grocery store, at any time of night (especially in the US, in Wal-mart), and you'll see that the great majority of ppl are preoccupied with earning money to make ends meet, working dull jobs, and praying to non-existent or apathetic gods, that it's pretty damned amazing we even have the tech that we do have.

Also, capitalism is good in most aspects, but the market economy directs us toward development. Right now, telecommunications is the area of tech that's developing, not space tech. If you put a profit on space tech, it will take off. Right now, where's the profit in going to the moon, Mars, or Pegasus? There is no profit for us to lift a finger and explore space at this point in time. If you make it profitable, and take it out of the hands of gov't, we could advance quite rapidly.

Also, the Goa'uld are many thousands of years ahead of us. If we did not have the gate, who knows how long it woudl take to catch up, but there's a good chance that by the time we got to where the Goa'uld are now, they would have advanced some or a lot.

aschen
July 25th, 2004, 06:46 PM
The Tollan were taken from Earth in a primitive state. Remember, they did eventually destroy the Goa'uld and wound up having a weapon that was capable of destroying an entire Goa'uld mothership.

You're half right, in my opinion, with the religion thing. As a christian, I can see where some of the weak minded can and have fallen prey to crud like catholic dogma. The inclusion of a belief should never affect the progress of a society. That's one of the reasons why in the US there exists the illusion of the seperation of church and state.

One's faith should not be a consuming matter, and neither (as you said) should their jobs be. The "real world" exists outside of your employment, and lies in personal and technological progress. :)

aeroe
July 25th, 2004, 06:52 PM
LordAnubis,

I'm not sure why shallow insults to religious or spiritual people are required just to make a point. I myself am Agnostic, but I don't go out of my way just to degrade others who do not share my own beliefs.

cobraR478
July 25th, 2004, 07:03 PM
That is completely untrue, Apophis ships were more advanced than the Pryimid ship from the Movie, Later Sokar developed a method to cloak goa'uld motherships that had been previously impossible as pointed out by Jakob Carter/Selmac when Apophis destroyed Heru'ur (apophis having gaind the technology after killing sokar) Nirrti developed personal cloaking technology that was not possesed by other system lords, they system lords have been at war with eachother for along time until recently when they joined forces so technological advances were not shared and are probably still not completely disclosed to rival lordsOther than Apophis' ships, all of that stuff was developed after the Tau'ri reopened the gate. I believe that I said something along the lines of "up until now" in my post which was meant to infer the return of a group of humans with the ability and willingness to battle the Goa'uld.

EDIT: Also, there is no proof that they didn't just run across some of those devices on some planets.

Vyse
July 25th, 2004, 07:26 PM
While we still make progress during peace time, and it is nowhere near as fast as when we are at war. The huge flaw with capitalism is that money can buy you anything, including the government, and I mean both parties (Dennis Kucinich is an exception, that's why you never heard about him in the primary race). Big Business buys politicians who need money to get elected, etc.. . Corporations own the media, and the government, and if we are not careful, the entire internet as well. I hope for a system similar to the Federation in Star Trek, you still have elected officials, but there is no money in society, money is the root of all evil. As Picard said " The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity". That's as close to paradise we will ever get, DS9 greatly explored the flaws in the system, but there are much less when compared to our capitalist, religious society. People can be religious, that's fine. But alot of very religious people don't quite understand the outstanding concept of sepereation of church and state. This is shown by the recent attempt to furhter precent the homosexual community equal rights, the belief is founded in religion. In order to create a great world with tech that could rival the Goa'uld technology would be to get rid of our greediness as a species, and completely seperate religion from government. :D (Damn I think about this stuff too much!)

LordAnubis
July 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM
LordAnubis,

I'm not sure why shallow insults to religious or spiritual people are required just to make a point. I myself am Agnostic, but I don't go out of my way just to degrade others who do not share my own beliefs.
That is why you should worship me, your only true god. :)
I meant no offense, but religion has kept us backwards. Remember, there is a difference between religion, another form of politics as Marx said, and faith. There is nothing wrong in believing in a greater good, or having faith in something that is "above" us, figuratively and literally. However, to put your faith in a book (Bible), written by primitive humans with little or no concept of modern science, and bank on the riches of the aferlife is not only illogical, but wasteful insofar as life is wasted on anticipation of death and what lies beyond. You spend your waking hours following a prescribed lifestyle devoid of happiness and meaning in hopes that you'll be rewarded after you've "died".

Also, the great religions have done everything possible to keep humanity backwards. Instead of advancing science, science and innovation were often viewed as witchcraft, heresy, and devilry. Innovators were often killed for being heretics and witches. Religion is not faith in God; religion is merely another form of politics -- one group of people controlling another.

If you think about it, in many ways, the religions of Earth are similar to the Jaffa-Goa'uld "religion" in that we let a "learned" group of others tell us what God is and what God means. The Pope, while a good guy, is sorta like a benevalent Goa'uld; he is a living God who thinks he has more insight into what life means because he doesn't have sex, wears a funny hat, and has read the Bible a lot more than most of us. That makes him an expert on the world beyond how? Or Islamic religious fanatics who think the Koran speaks to them and tells to kill innocent people so that there will be rewards galore in heaven with Allah? It's politics, no more, no less. In normal politics, money and power are the driving forces to acquire more power and more wealth. In religion, "God", guilt, and keeping the followers compliant and dumb are the driving forces in acquiring power and wealth -- or just power.

Not all religions are evil or power hungry, and I don't mean to imply that, but if you look at the history of many religions, like Christianity, you will see that we humans have a pattern and practice of becoming corrupt despite our best original intentions. The path to faith and healing often ends up a bloody one.

If we examine our history as a civilization and subtract the major religious movements, we would most likely have attained an extremely advanced level of technology by now -- maybe equal to that of the Tollans.

I also believe that the acquisition of wealth and the tedium of everyday existence has kept us dull and primitive. Why? Well, if we didn't have to go off to work everyday, in order to earn money to eat, drink, drive, etc., we wouldnt be wasting our time dealing with irate customers, serving up fast food, chaning someone else's oil, or doing other mundane things. Instead, we could devote our time to exploring our intellectual interests and using our full mental and physical energies to better our society. Well, at least some of us would. Instead of becoming self-actualized, like the ancients, we live dull, boring, monotonous lives trying to earn enough money to live while others around us seek to take what we have and keep it for themselves.

Before we enter these lives, we spend a lot of time in school learning things that others tell us have meaning, not letting us choose what we wish to study (formally) until college, and then, we still have to follow a prescribed course that includes liberal arts requirements, etc. Once we finish college, some go on for more schooling, others go right into the world of work. To what end? Some have families and end up living a typical suburban life, while only a very few of us end up doing something we really love and enjoy.

How many people out there really end up doing what they love to do and get paid well doing it? Daniel loved his job, but was dirt poor until Dr. Langford brought him on board. O'Neill was almost suicidal and lost his will to live before Gen. West ordered him to Cheyenne Mountain before the Abydos mission. Dr. Carter was trying to make meaning out of her life before the Gate project. My point is, not many of us find happiness, meaning, and fulfillment in our lives. The lust for money, our current way of life, and religion are primarily to blame.

Just imagine how life would be if we lived like the Asgard, Nox, or Ancients? Hell, even living as a Goa'uld! Think about what we could do with our minds and our abilities if we were not encumbered by going to lame jobs, going to classes that do not challenge us, and being a slave to the mighty dollar/pound/Euro/whatever currency.

If you want to find God, look in your wallet -- God is green (or whatever colour pounds and euros and rubels and dinars are); he is organized in denominations, and God (money) makes the Earth go around. It's almost hypocrisy to say we have faith in a real God, because our actions don't seem to support that notion.

That was my point. If you're offended, I'm sorry. It's only my opinion. And as your true God, it is also your opinion now, human! :)

Rhydderch Hael
July 25th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Well see technology advances only as fast as well as the society developing it functions. Here on Earth, well it's a huge mess. Everything takes forever and our society has no direction. So, I guess 100 would be sufficient.
Unity breeds complacency. Strife brings about innovation. You find comfort sitting among those you agree with. You find growth standing against those you don't.

And if Neccessity is the Mother of Invention, then War is Neccessity┬▓.

Metonic
July 25th, 2004, 10:57 PM
over a thousand years, more thn that cause in 500 we'll be enslaved. If it wasnt for openeing the gate we wouldnt know the threat now we come up with ways to end the threat, without knowledge of the threat we dont do much thats why the ancients got killed they were suprised by wraith.

Torley
July 25th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Uhhh... before we get into any sort of a jihad here and start trampling on each other's religious beliefs, I do believe that faith (religious or spiritual or whatever) has its place and science has its place. :) Science is a tool that cannot fully explain many things we would like it to. It's important that we not be scared of science, and more importantly, more people believe in its ability -- as used by human beings -- to help us discover new things about ourselves and the world around us. There have been many superstitious fools caught up in quackery before like the Luddites who basically hated the computers of their day, as crude automatons as they seem to be to us now. Change of any kind always causes an unheaval of sorts and the lines of conflict are drawn between humans. Science doesn't go out and bomb people. People do that, just like a hammer can be used to assemble a house, or alternatively, pound a neighbor's skull in a la Stephen King.

There are too many false myths going on about risks involving things such as genetics stem cell research and cloning, two topics that have of course come up in philosophical (and more) ways on Stargate SG-1, among a number of other topics. There are also many fallacies being propogated via something known as "email chain letter" to warn people of urban legends in this day that should be more readily debunked (by a site such as snopes.com), but are not. And among us of course walk many fearmongers and charlatans, not to mention politicians who answer to money (more often than they'd like to admit -- I admire Donald Trump because at least he admits to money as a way of keeping score!) and want to sway large blocs of voters because of their religious beliefs, whatever they may be.

The point being, a lot of people argue by basically quoting words out of books and bashing each other over the head about it. I do think it keeps people back and prevents them from fully embracing technological change and the accelerative thrust that luminaries like Alvin and Heidi Toffler are such progressive advocates of. But... humans are like that.

Real faith always remains -- those who are secure in it always have to realize that -- but we have the ability to do so much more within our grasp right now, and we never will because of people who are insecure, afraid, and ignorant of science.

Tying this into the Goa'uld, as they have used false religion for many years to bring about their aims for feudal warring and intergalactic conquest, their scientific progress has been greatly diminished. What inroads they have made are the result of scavenging the work of others and trying to reverse-engineer it (i.e. Anubis, the episode Double Jeopardy). They can learn from the past (The Ancients) but have little new to offer, and so they rely on continually plundering the databanks of history in an effort to keep on waging war.

One of SG-1's standing orders, of course, is to acquire new alien technology for Earth. There is a great emphasis on scientific scrutiny on the show, but a lot of personal faith too and tales of loyal friendship and courage despite internal team conflicts at times. I am not surprised, and this is part of why I enjoy Stargate SG-1.

LordAnubis
July 25th, 2004, 11:45 PM
The Tollan were taken from Earth in a primitive state. Remember, they did eventually destroy the Goa'uld and wound up having a weapon that was capable of destroying an entire Goa'uld mothership.

You're half right, in my opinion, with the religion thing. As a christian, I can see where some of the weak minded can and have fallen prey to crud like catholic dogma. The inclusion of a belief should never affect the progress of a society. That's one of the reasons why in the US there exists the illusion of the seperation of church and state.

One's faith should not be a consuming matter, and neither (as you said) should their jobs be. The "real world" exists outside of your employment, and lies in personal and technological progress. :)
Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!

thirdeyeblind105
July 26th, 2004, 05:41 AM
Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!

The Tollan were destroyed by Anubis' ancient technology, not by Goa'uld tech. Before Anubis, the Tollan were far superior to the Goa'uld and had ion cannons that could shoot down motherships in orbit.

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 06:08 AM
Hmm, wasn't it the Goa'uld who destroyed the Tollans? Yep, it was...so like, they were really advanced, right? Heh, no!
You think you're so smart, huh? Well it was Anubis's ship who took down the Tollans, so technically it was Ancient tech., not Goa'uld. :P

Before you go around acting like a hot shot and mocking people, why don't you think before you type.

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 06:09 AM
The Tollan were destroyed by Anubis' ancient technology, not by Goa'uld tech. Before Anubis, the Tollan were far superior to the Goa'uld and had ion cannons that could shoot down motherships in orbit.
*kicks dirt at you* I was about to type that!

VirtualCLD
July 26th, 2004, 08:07 AM
Wow, leave this thread for few days and look what it becomes. So not going into religous and political debate, but I would like to point some other things out.

1) I agree with aschen and thirdeyeblind105, the Tollans were wiped out with Ancient tech, which was developed over a course of several (maybe as much as 25 -30) million years, not centuries or millenia.
2) In 2010, I believe the Aschen wiped out the Goa'uld (and the Tok'ra as well) so obviously their "primative" technology was enough to take out the Goa'uld. (I guess no Anubis either, oh well).
3) While I admit technology is advancing pretty quickly over the past century (GO MOORE'S LAW), I don't hink it's exponentially growing, nor is it much faster than are advances in the 1800's or 1700's (and even before that as well). It might have taken us a good 500 - 700 more years just to become as advanced as the Tollans, possibly even more, now that I think about it. Yeah, it would be nice to advance to where the Tollans are in the next 50 - 200 years, but it might take longer than that. Who knows, it maybe we will be that far along come 2200 or 2250, but it's difficult to estimate. Space exploration is very costly and going back to capatilism, there is little capital gain from it. Hopefully we'll be exploring other solar systems first hand within a couple hundred years, but I don't know. Personally, I would like our tech advances to help fix things in this solar system before we leave for others. I'm sure we could still learn a lot by playing in our "own backyard" first.

Anubis
July 26th, 2004, 08:18 AM
You hold some good points about the Aschen. You have certainly done your homework! :D

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 08:24 AM
Anything with this name in it has gotta be cool. ;) ;)

I'm surprised DJ didn't realize "Oh wait...Aschen in german means 'ashes'... Hm. This might not be such a great idea..."

Anubis
July 26th, 2004, 08:27 AM
lol The name for starts doesn't give off a great sense of touch

Xevallah
July 26th, 2004, 09:32 AM
Yeah but people in this country don't invent things to help others- they do it to make money!
And? What does the intent have to do with anything if the end result is the same? Someone may not want to invent something to help someone but if he knows hell make a fortune off of it, he will make a product that helps people....

thirdeyeblind105
July 26th, 2004, 09:45 AM
over a thousand years, more thn that cause in 500 we'll be enslaved. If it wasnt for openeing the gate we wouldnt know the threat now we come up with ways to end the threat, without knowledge of the threat we dont do much thats why the ancients got killed they were suprised by wraith.

Why would we be enslaved? The only reason the Goa'uld are a threat to us is becase we killed Ra and have shown that our technological capabilities are a threat to them. Without opening the stargate, the Goa'uld wouldn't come to enslave us.

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Agreed. The Goa'uld really don't do much to advance themselves until a significant opponent has shown themselves.

LordAnubis
July 26th, 2004, 10:54 AM
You think you're so smart, huh? Well it was Anubis's ship who took down the Tollans, so technically it was Ancient tech., not Goa'uld. :P

Before you go around acting like a hot shot and mocking people, why don't you think before you type.
You mocked me first. They were not more advanced than the Goa'uld -- period. Kicks dirt at you.

LordAnubis
July 26th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Wow, leave this thread for few days and look what it becomes. So not going into religous and political debate, but I would like to point some other things out.

1) I agree with aschen and thirdeyeblind105, the Tollans were wiped out with Ancient tech, which was developed over a course of several (maybe as much as 25 -30) million years, not centuries or millenia.
2) In 2010, I believe the Aschen wiped out the Goa'uld (and the Tok'ra as well) so obviously their "primative" technology was enough to take out the Goa'uld. (I guess no Anubis either, oh well).
3) While I admit technology is advancing pretty quickly over the past century (GO MOORE'S LAW), I don't hink it's exponentially growing, nor is it much faster than are advances in the 1800's or 1700's (and even before that as well). It might have taken us a good 500 - 700 more years just to become as advanced as the Tollans, possibly even more, now that I think about it. Yeah, it would be nice to advance to where the Tollans are in the next 50 - 200 years, but it might take longer than that. Who knows, it maybe we will be that far along come 2200 or 2250, but it's difficult to estimate. Space exploration is very costly and going back to capatilism, there is little capital gain from it. Hopefully we'll be exploring other solar systems first hand within a couple hundred years, but I don't know. Personally, I would like our tech advances to help fix things in this solar system before we leave for others. I'm sure we could still learn a lot by playing in our "own backyard" first.
2010 was a hypothetical, what-if, future story; it never really happened after they set things straight. So, I doubt the Aschen defeated the Goa'uld. If the Tollans were so advanced, why didn't they wipe out the Goa'uld before, and why would the Gou'ald (before Anubis), bother or disturb the Tolans? (See "Pretense").

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 10:59 AM
And? What does the intent have to do with anything if the end result is the same? Someone may not want to invent something to help someone but if he knows hell make a fortune off of it, he will make a product that helps people....
AND? The things people make for almost always for strictly lucrative purposes. Half the time they're made just to pacify the average person. I look at the our world, and especially the US as one fat greedy pig who's entire existance is based upon pacification and consumation.

Isn't that a bit of a loop in terms of progress?

VirtualCLD
July 26th, 2004, 11:03 AM
2010 was a hypothetical, what-if, future story; it never really happened after they set things straight. So, I doubt the Aschen defeated the Goa'uld. If the Tollans were so advanced, why didn't they wipe out the Goa'uld before, and why would the Gou'ald (before Anubis), bother or disturb the Tolans? (See "Pretense").
SPOILERS 2010





Ah, but it did happen. It had to have happened inorder for SG-1 to get the note in the first place. In fact, it still does exist!! This is due to the fact that we know there is an infinite number of parallel universes based on the different decisions and choices made int he Stargate universe (see episodes about the Quantum Mirror thingy). As a result, the Aschen Earth still exists in another universe, but the 2010 SG-1 just spawned an alternate timeline by throwing the note through the gate.

(Is it me, or does anyone else have a problem with 1969 where they had to "preserve the timeline at all costs no matter WHAT!!!" and then in 2010 their like "Ah, f*** it! What have we got to lose?"... I think I answered my own question.)

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 11:06 AM
Good point. I guess when it's serious enough you gotta change the course of your given human history!

thirdeyeblind105
July 26th, 2004, 11:19 AM
You mocked me first. They were not more advanced than the Goa'uld -- period. Kicks dirt at you.

Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature. They're relatively peaceful and they never felt threatened by the Goa'uld. The whole situation in pretense would never have happened if it weren't for the arrogant nature of the Tollan, who believed that nothing could destroy them, especially a technologically inferior race. Also note that one ion cannon was able to fend off the Goa'uld attack in that episode. In fact, there's really no evidence in the entire serires that points towards the Goa'uld being more advanced than the Tollan (until Anubis of course).

aschen
July 26th, 2004, 11:47 AM
Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature.
Because he wanted to try prove people wrong, but in the end it backfired.

LordAnubis
July 27th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Lord Anubis, how can you say that the Tollan were never more advanced than the Goa'uld, even before Anubis? The Tollan didn't destroy the Goa'uld because its not in their nature. They're relatively peaceful and they never felt threatened by the Goa'uld. The whole situation in pretense would never have happened if it weren't for the arrogant nature of the Tollan, who believed that nothing could destroy them, especially a technologically inferior race. Also note that one ion cannon was able to fend off the Goa'uld attack in that episode. In fact, there's really no evidence in the entire serires that points towards the Goa'uld being more advanced than the Tollan (until Anubis of course).
It's hard to say for sure, I know what you're saying, but in all honesty, wasn't it the Goa'uld who brought the Tollan to their planet. I forget if they ever said if the Tollan are transplants from Earth, or maybe they were part of the Ancient seeding...does anyone know?

Sorry for being pissy -- I've been sorta on edge last few days. I'm sorry aschen, please forgive me dude. I never wanted to prove anyone wrong, I just really thought I was right. In the end, the Tollan were destroyed by the Goa'uld, but I didn't think their level of advancement was that different (not by much at least).

What gets me is that Carter said the Tollan's tech was too advanced for her to retro-engineer, yet the Goa'uld retro engineered Ancient tech and so did we (or figure some of it out). Ancient tech is superior to all other tech, so if we and the Goau'ld can deceipher ancient tech, why can't we or the goa'uld decipher and retroengineer Tollan tech? Any ideas?

I have no clue about the Aschen, but i know in the one episode (spoiler)...it said that they travelled by ship, not gates, and they were confined to their star system, which sorta implied, but was not definite, that they didn't have FTL tech like the Goa'uld, that is why I was surprised that the defeated the Goa'uld in 2010. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I don't think they had hyperdrive or FTL, but who knows? They sure had bio tech, that's for sure, so maybe Aschen bio tech wiped out the goa'uld in that episode.

Ilios
July 27th, 2004, 03:45 PM
It's hard to say for sure, I know what you're saying, but in all honesty, wasn't it the Goa'uld who brought the Tollan to their planet. I forget if they ever said if the Tollan are transplants from Earth, or maybe they were part of the Ancient seeding...does anyone know?

Sorry for being pissy -- I've been sorta on edge last few days. I'm sorry aschen, please forgive me dude. I never wanted to prove anyone wrong, I just really thought I was right. In the end, the Tollan were destroyed by the Goa'uld, but I didn't think their level of advancement was that different (not by much at least).

What gets me is that Carter said the Tollan's tech was too advanced for her to retro-engineer, yet the Goa'uld retro engineered Ancient tech and so did we (or figure some of it out). Ancient tech is superior to all other tech, so if we and the Goau'ld can deceipher ancient tech, why can't we or the goa'uld decipher and retroengineer Tollan tech? Any ideas?

I have no clue about the Aschen, but i know in the one episode (spoiler)...it said that they travelled by ship, not gates, and they were confined to their star system, which sorta implied, but was not definite, that they didn't have FTL tech like the Goa'uld, that is why I was surprised that the defeated the Goa'uld in 2010. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I don't think they had hyperdrive or FTL, but who knows? They sure had bio tech, that's for sure, so maybe Aschen bio tech wiped out the goa'uld in that episode.

Tollan were originally taken from Earth... they are so advanced that neither the Goa'uld or Earth can backward engineer any of their technology.

220683
July 27th, 2004, 04:18 PM
First of all, Goa'uld tech? What is that? Where do you draw the line between stolen technology and Goa'uld innovations?

Ashen excels at bio tech. SGC will be long gone in 2010, with no one to spank Anubis's tooshie. If they wipe out the Goa'uld in 2010, the chances are they did it via biological weapons. When they do, they will be doing Anubis a favour. Anubis can not be killed conventional means. His spandex warriors, although dumb can be quite lethal in assassinations. I believe he will be successful in capturing key Aschen personnels, plays with their head a bit and use Aschen's own advancement in bio warfare against them. So in the end, Anubis will deliver us from the Aschen, the evil empire of accountants.

Bless his little black heart.

aschen
July 27th, 2004, 05:05 PM
:mad: *fumbles around for words* No. No no no. The Aschen would kick their butt some how. >: /

VirtualCLD
July 28th, 2004, 06:04 AM
Well, theoretically, the Aschen could bio-engineer a weapon to elliminate the Kull warriors. Now, if Anubis switched to solely electrical/mechanical beings, then there might be a bigger problem for the Aschen. We really won't know for sure though.

aschen
July 29th, 2004, 10:43 AM
I don't forsee a very big problem. The human body is but a series of electrical synapses in flesh. It shouldn't be too much of a problem for me- them to change from flesh to metal and just blow the crud outta dem.

spiceweasel
July 29th, 2004, 02:00 PM
So far, I think capitalism is the best method of advancing tech, .

I dunno, Russia beat us to space, and sending people. Capatilism would never have tried if not for the political warfare! Bwah hah hah, listen to my ranting! *fires Zat*

veneticuss
August 1st, 2004, 02:38 AM
Just something I've been thinking about lately...say we didn't start using the gate when we did, and instead waited until we were more advanced. How long would it take for us to develop technology that could defeat the goa'uld?(or atleast put up a decent defense agaisnt them) Obviously, no one really could know, but assuming we keep at our current rate and the goa'uld don't become much more advanced then they are, my guess is around 200 or 300 years. Any thoughts?

The problem is, they did't know there were Goaulds :cool:

Metonic
August 1st, 2004, 04:35 AM
I dunno, Russia beat us to space, and sending people. Capatilism would never have tried if not for the political warfare! Bwah hah hah, listen to my ranting! *fires Zat*
Thats cause russia use to be taken over by gou'alds......