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View Full Version : Will it be every race for themselves in S10? (Spoilers)



da_hippie
February 5th, 2006, 05:42 AM
This has probably already been theorized, but before anyone reds me - I DID HAVE A LOOK, but couldn't find anything like this.

Also, my post will definately and it's likely that any replies wil contain


SPOILERS



In the first ep, Adria tells us the Ori's side of the Ori/Ancient war, could she be right? From all the people in our galaxy, how many do the Ancient's ascend? None - so they're no better than the Ori in that respect. Before anyone yells Oma or Daniel at me - Oma was a rogue who was not supposed to be ascending people and the Ancients did end up descending Daniel.

The Ancients did create a lot of, if not all, the life in our galaxy, perhaps so that they could drain more strength? They left behind a lot of writings and information about themselves, but not really anything about the path to ascension.

If the Ancients really do draw strength from their followers, it would give further motive for the Ori to attack the Sodan rather than just vengence. In the hope that by attacking legendary Ancient worshippers, word will spread through the galaxy about it.

Also, from Adria's speech, it sounds as though their fights must have been going on since before or around the time of the first ascensions. So maybe they were all one big happy family before different beliefs seperated the two colonies and a universal civil war occurred.

The Ancients then created many galaxies of humans to worship them and grant them strength and clearly managed to beat the Ori back. This would also explain the Ori's methods, if you don't worship them then you're seen to be helping the Ancients and are therefore destroyed.

So I'm not saying that the Ori are good, but are they in fact fighting the true evil? Earth happens to be caught in the middle, meaning that it is the neutral between the two fires. Also, every other planet has clearly got to choose between the two great super powers.

Also, we're apparently getting both a new enemy and a lot more on the Ancients, could they be the same thing?

Sorry about giving you War and Peace btw.

Denanthor
February 5th, 2006, 05:55 AM
Didnt the Ancients asend all of the people of Abydos when Anubis destroyed the planet As well as Orlin but he was already an ancient. What about Daniel Oma helped him assend and she was an ancient. And if the Atlantians and the Alterns where the same they built that place in pegasus where they can go and time goes fast so they can assend.

da_hippie
February 5th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Abydos could have been ascended by Oma or some of the other rogues.

As for the place in Pegasus, maybe it was built by the Ori? Notice how the Ancients sent that beast thing to keep the inhabitants away from ascension? Maybe it wasn't a test, just a barrier. They wouldn't have gotten through it if it weren't for Sheppard.

If the Ori were originally in Pegasus before leaving for their own galaxy, perhaps they were responsible for making the Wraith and that virus assuming that it would destroy the Ancients in Pegasus before being able to proceed straight through to the MW to destroy any Ancients. It just didn't quite go to plan.

immhotep
February 5th, 2006, 07:00 AM
In answer to the main queston, yes it will be every race for themselves, but earth will choose the alterans, so will the asgard. nothing will change becuase the motives are different. Earth has more reason to trust the alterans than the ori, look at the ori/alteran resume:

alteran:
Ascend DJ twice.
destroyed anubis
ascended the entire popualtion of abydos
froze time to save earth from the self destruct
sent an ascended to help earth against the prior plauge
created an ascended centre 'epiphiny'

now for the ori
tried to destroy earth
blew up its first warship
killed 8000 people in a week
wiped out entire planets for saying no
tried to corrupt the FJN
tried to kill general landry

Earth will trust the alterans. the rest of the galaxy, humans, will follow earth. tealc trusts earth, braytak trusts tealc, earth trusts the alterans, jaffa trusts the alterans, asgard are our allies/ friends of the ancients/alterans, so will trust alterans.....point is nothing will change.

da_hippie
February 5th, 2006, 07:09 AM
Alterrans

Ascend DJ twice.
destroyed anubis
ascended the entire popualtion of abydos
These were/could have been done by Oma.


froze time to save earth from the self destruct
There's no proof that this was the Ancients


sent an ascended to help earth against the prior plauge
They sent someone to help stop the Ori from killing many humans who may one day be useful in giving the Ancients power enough to destroy the Ori. Also, it gave them the chance to feed us with information about how evil the Ori are. They were just trying to keep the universe against the Ori.


created an ascended centre 'epiphiny'
See my last post.


Ori


tried to destroy earth
killed 8000 people in a week
wiped out entire planets for saying no
tried to kill general landry
They're trying to kill the supporters of the Ancients, just as we would kill the worshippers of the Ori if it were necessary to stopping the true evil. Also, we have to done a lot to harm them, a retalliation was inevitable.


blew up its first warship
I thought the LA did that, o well. If not, read up.


tried to corrupt the FJN
What's FJN?

Blitz
February 5th, 2006, 10:59 AM
froze time to save earth from the self destruct


When was that? I dnt remember that.... O_O

FallenAngelII
February 5th, 2006, 11:37 AM
The Ancient do not ascend people, besides Oma, who's now probably still busy elsewhere. However, the Ancients never PREVENT people from Ascending.

They just don't meddle (much) in the lower planes' affairs because of what might happen (Orlinn).

Why would the Ori come to the Pegasus Galaxy just to build the sanctuary and then leave?! Why not force the Pegasus Galaxy to worship them? Perform some miracle like kill off the Wraith.

As far as we know, the Ori don't even know of the existance of the Pegasus Galaxy. The sanctuary was said to have been built by the Ancestors, i.e. the Ancients. So unless ALL of the Ancients in the Pegasus Galaxy were Ori, no.

da_hippie
February 5th, 2006, 11:47 AM
Perhaps the sanctuary was just supposed to give false hope about ascending then? The people never would have managed it if not for Sheppard.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
February 5th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Erm... ever notice that the Ancients made no such promises of ascension? They don't have followers, they don't call themselves gods. The Sodan only think they are because of the tech that they left behind.

immhotep
February 5th, 2006, 12:11 PM
the ancient are reveered because of what they left behind not because of who they are now. most of the galaxy only learned about ascension when anubis arrived, or we told them. kebb was the only reference in this galaxy to it. the stargates , the most important peice of technolgy ever created IMO is why the ancients are worshiped, not because they are all powerfull.

da_hippie
February 5th, 2006, 01:03 PM
I can see that I stand alone in this thought, but nevertheless...

The Ancients make no promise of ascension and therefore don't ascend anyone. They don't need to claim themselves as gods, as many races, such as the Sodan, already worshipped them. It's likely that they haven't needed to recruit any more worshippers recently as the Ori have been keeping to themselves, but who's to say that this won't change?

NakedJehutyV2
February 5th, 2006, 03:51 PM
lantians are alterrans.

JanusAncient
February 5th, 2006, 11:10 PM
Something about the Ancients and Orlin, if the Ancients were truly neutral, unwilling to interfere, why did they destroy an entire population, the one that Orlin gave that incredibly advanced weapon to. I know it is said that they did it to correct Orlin's mistake, but these are ascended beings, they could have reversed time, destroyed the weapon, erased memories, but no they decided to kill off everyone on the planet.

If the Ori are telling the truth, maybe some of the Lantians were Ori, they could have came with the Ancient's to the Milky Way, and then to Pegasus, after they helped the Ancients to betray the Ori.

What are you talking about the Ancients don't get people to worship them? In the Stargate universe they are responsible for Earth's many religions, even Daniel commented on whether or not the Ancients made fire evil. In Pegasus Chaya keeps people much like the Ori, they worship Athar, the only good Ancient we have met is Oma. They sent Orlin back to us as child, I think because they knew it was more likely we would perceive a child as innocent, therefore telling the truth. Again, these are ascended beings, they could have given the information necessary to cure to plague, to a computer, while never leaving their place of existence, except to inform us what it meant.

Have the Ori ascended anyone, we don't know, we know that the Ancients said they haven't, and the only Ancient that has ascended anyone is Oma, we don't even know if she is an Ancient.

FallenAngelII
February 6th, 2006, 12:03 AM
Perhaps the sanctuary was just supposed to give false hope about ascending then? The people never would have managed it if not for Sheppard.

I thought it was implied or even stated that the people who came before those people had already ascended themselves. This generation was merely still bound because of this fear/beast of theirs.


Did anyone notice in the credits that it said that the changed to human and then lifesucked by the hive queen ex wraith but turned to human guy (in lab on bed) in Alies was James Lafazanos (He plays all the talking wraith in Atlantis so far ie. Bob, steve, gordon etc, plus he also plays the wraith scientist in Allies!
We finally get to see what he looks like under all that makeup YAY!

Cool! What was he credited as? XD

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 6th, 2006, 06:33 AM
What's FJN?

Free Jaffa Nation.

Also about Atlantis Beast creature, that wasnt created by the Ascended but rather by the fears of those who were on the path to ascension.

Yes, the Ori wish to guide you away from the darkness for you have been raised by evi. Hallowed are the Ori.

Davidtourniquet
February 6th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Something about the Ancients and Orlin, if the Ancients were truly neutral, unwilling to interfere, why did they destroy an entire population, the one that Orlin gave that incredibly advanced weapon to. I know it is said that they did it to correct Orlin's mistake, but these are ascended beings, they could have reversed time, destroyed the weapon, erased memories, but no they decided to kill off everyone on the planet.

If the Ori are telling the truth, maybe some of the Lantians were Ori, they could have came with the Ancient's to the Milky Way, and then to Pegasus, after they helped the Ancients to betray the Ori.

What are you talking about the Ancients don't get people to worship them? In the Stargate universe they are responsible for Earth's many religions, even Daniel commented on whether or not the Ancients made fire evil. In Pegasus Chaya keeps people much like the Ori, they worship Athar, the only good Ancient we have met is Oma. They sent Orlin back to us as child, I think because they knew it was more likely we would perceive a child as innocent, therefore telling the truth. Again, these are ascended beings, they could have given the information necessary to cure to plague, to a computer, while never leaving their place of existence, except to inform us what it meant.

Have the Ori ascended anyone, we don't know, we know that the Ancients said they haven't, and the only Ancient that has ascended anyone is Oma, we don't even know if she is an Ancient.

Chaya stayed behind to protect her people from the wraith, the people worshipped athar and she basically went along with it, saying she was a high priestess when really she is the ancient.
I don't think the ancients are evil, it's more they let us do what we(SG universe) want and let us be. Both Daniel and Orlin were deascended because they helped the "lower plains of existance".But Orlin was able to retain the knowledge for a short time.

reiella
February 6th, 2006, 08:10 AM
Here's the thing that doesn't make much sense about that supposition.

Why wouldn't the Ancients interfere in the lives of their Galaxy overtly?

tsjr
February 8th, 2006, 02:49 AM
Here's the thing that doesn't make much sense about that supposition.

Why wouldn't the Ancients interfere in the lives of their Galaxy overtly?

They wont interfere becuase they believe that only those who can achieve enlightenment(asension) on their own deserve it.

If you cant do it yourself you dont deserve to be there with them.

jakey
February 8th, 2006, 03:34 AM
Maybe The ancients dont ascend people on mass because they are the ones who dont want to share their power. Orlin Could have lied his face off about the ori and who's going to argue with a descended child whos losing his mind. I personally have serious misgivings about the ancients and firmly believe that something far deeper is going on.

da_hippie
February 8th, 2006, 12:35 PM
Maybe The ancients dont ascend people on mass because they are the ones who dont want to share their power. Orlin Could have lied his face off about the ori and who's going to argue with a descended child whos losing his mind. I personally have serious misgivings about the ancients and firmly believe that something far deeper is going on.
It's is good that you have seen the light early, young one.

Peoples_General
February 8th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Its possible that this Ori -vs- Alterans things is similar to the Vorlons -vs- Shadows in Babylon 5.

Both are telling the truth about themselves, but tell lies about the other. Its called propaganda.

Individualism -vs- Collectivism
Free Will (do whatever you want) -vs- Strict Order (do as we tell you)
Focus on Meditation -vs- Focus on Proselytization

dmayor09
February 8th, 2006, 10:06 PM
first off, its not that the ancients don't ascend anybody, they just think you should earn it yourself. I mean, look at it from their perspective...there wasn't anyone there helping them along to become ascended beings, they did it all on their own. Why should they help anyone ascend or give out technology to advance races....no one did it for them. They earn/discovered everything for themselves, so why should everyone else be given what they worked for. They spent millions of years evolving and maturing and growing and discovering the universe...why should a civilization of only a few thousand years old be given the advancement that propels them far beyond what they should have? Maybe the ancients aren't selfish, they just think we should get off our lazy butts and do somethin for ourselves. just my opinion about things....although it would be cool to have some of their tech.

hypergate
February 8th, 2006, 10:07 PM
this is just a general reply. Remember what Anubis said when Daniel was trying to ascend for the second time. No lone ascended being may help a lower ascend. A collective vote can get you in. The Ori are the reason fire is feared on Earth, not the ancients. I think it was Avalon part 2 this was explained. Also in an episode this season when we kill a prior he doesn't ascend. His body just lays there. Where's the promised ascension? I don't think the Ancients are bad. Daniel mentions that Kaeb has a relationship to Buddishm and Mother Earth. These are only 2 religions, not the 17 or so the G'oauld use. The priors kill in the name of the Ori. No one kills in the name of the Ancients, that we know of. They could be bad, but by the way the writers set it up it would be hard for me to believe it.:ronan:

Juice
February 9th, 2006, 09:08 AM
This what I think will happen

Thw two groups lived on one planet which was a lot like ours in terms of different countries, different religions, differing levels of advancement etc.

The Alterrans are the most advanced race/country on the planet and are very scienced based. basically doing anything in the name of science even if it doesnt need doing(eg ZPMs already exist the planet doesnt need any more power sources but they still carry on with dangerous experiments like on the SGA)
Eventually to carry on their experiments, they use the rest of the population as lab rats, and kill 1000s of people.
The rest of the population get annoyed and declare war, despite the fact they are more advanced the alterans have no chance so flee.

The remaining population unite under one flag to try and get through the strife caused by the Alterans creating the Ori and sweare they will get their revenge.


1000s of years pass

We find out from the Ori that the repopulation of this galaxy and everything that has happened has all been part of a plan by the Alterans who are playing god. (eg they created the Gouald and helped them take over the galaxy, they created the replicators to stop the Asgard getting involved and clearing out the Gouald. Then they introduced Earth(there natural decendents) into the mix to see if a primitive race could overthrough a powerful empire)

DetriusXii
February 9th, 2006, 10:41 AM
first off, its not that the ancients don't ascend anybody, they just think you should earn it yourself. I mean, look at it from their perspective...there wasn't anyone there helping them along to become ascended beings, they did it all on their own. Why should they help anyone ascend or give out technology to advance races....no one did it for them. They earn/discovered everything for themselves, so why should everyone else be given what they worked for. They spent millions of years evolving and maturing and growing and discovering the universe...why should a civilization of only a few thousand years old be given the advancement that propels them far beyond what they should have? Maybe the ancients aren't selfish, they just think we should get off our lazy butts and do somethin for ourselves. just my opinion about things....although it would be cool to have some of their tech.

Well, it's not like all ascended should hold that view. THere should have been more than just Oma ascending people. If something is an unlimited resource like ascension is, it would be easy for groups within the Ancients to repeatedly ascend people. After all, there's no cost to ascension. And since the Ancients weren't at war for a long while, they are likely to splinter. But in my opinion, introducing ascension as an unlimited resource was a lame plot device. Why have their children start from scratch? It makes no sense.

But I hate the concept of ascension and I don't think enough people are critical enough of the implications of having an ascension.

FallenAngelII
February 9th, 2006, 11:10 AM
Chaya stayed behind to protect her people from the wraith, the people worshipped athar and she basically went along with it, saying she was a high priestess when really she is the ancient.
I don't think the ancients are evil, it's more they let us do what we(SG universe) want and let us be. Both Daniel and Orlin were deascended because they helped the "lower plains of existance".But Orlin was able to retain the knowledge for a short time.

Actually, the 1st time, Orlinn wasn't descended, he got banished. He was still an Ascended Being. Then he descending of his own free will to be with Sam.

The 2nd time, he also descended of his own free will to help us.

And here's a thing about not ascending people because you don't wanna share power: WHAT POWER?! It's not like they're allowed to meddle with the lower planes or anything. Daniel broke codes merely by communicating with SG-1!