Are the F-302s VTOL capable ?

[metatron]

I know that the F-302 are capable of taking off from shorts runways ("Fallen")
but are they capable of hovering ?
spoiler for Atlantis season 2 "Allies":

























In "Allies", when they were escorting the wraith scout ship to atlantis, they slowed to an extremely low speed during the scout ship landing. How is that possible considering that they're not equiped with anti-gravity engine (like the death glider, and they don"t seem to have engines like the ones on the F-35 or the Harrier.

[Seastallion]

I know that the F-302 are capable of taking off from shorts runways ("Fallen")
but are they capable of hovering ?
spoiler for Atlantis season 2 "Allies":

In "Allies", when they were escorting the wraith scout ship to atlantis, they slowed to an extremely low speed during the scout ship landing. How is that possible considering that they're not equiped with anti-gravity engine (like the death glider, and they don"t seem to have engines like the ones on the F-35 or the Harrier.

The F-302 could be designed to be able to make signifcant stall maneuvers... but I doubt for very long. For all we know the onboard Inertial dampners might help with that. I noticed it to though.

[Pamplemousse of France]

The F-302 could be designed to be able to make signifcant stall maneuvers... but I doubt for very long. For all we know the onboard Inertial dampners might help with that. I noticed it to though.

Maybe the weight of the ship in comparison to its size prevent to use antigravity engines like the Death Gliders, we can think these engines are to big to be used and that there is room only for the inertial dampeners. The gliders are only hunters (chasseurs ?) and the 302 are (theoricaly) interstellar spaceships which means they require several additionnal system the gliders don't need.

[Seastallion]

Maybe the weight of the ship in comparison to its size prevent to use antigravity engines like the Death Gliders, we can think these engines are to big to be used and that there is room only for the inertial dampeners. The gliders are only hunters (chasseurs ?) and the 302 are (theoricaly) interstellar spaceships which means they require several additionnal system the gliders don't need.

Actually, the F-302's are NOT capable of interstellar travel (possibly short jumps within the same system, but the X-302 hyperspace test was a failure). Their role is exactly the same as the Deathgliders. The reason the F-302's don't have the Anti-Inertial drive the Deathglider has, is because Earth hasn't been able to figure out how to build them just yet. Earth does have working Deathgliders to study, they just haven't figured out how to make them for themselves yet. I'm afraid it doesn't have anything to do with any extra onboard systems. In fact, if they could figure out how to produce the Anti-Inertial drive of the Goa'uld Deathgliders, it would in fact eliminate the 2 extra engines that the F-302 needs. Currently the F-302 has 3 seperate engines, to be able to function as both an aerial and space fighter. If they could reduce that down to just one engine (like the gliders) it would save space.

[Pamplemousse of France]

Actually, the F-302's are NOT capable of interstellar travel (possibly short jumps within the same system, but the X-302 hyperspace test was a failure).

Yes, but they were designed to be interstellar. But maybe the hyperdrive is not installed on the "F" production models.

The reason the F-302's don't have the Anti-Inertial drive the Deathglider has, is because Earth hasn't been able to figure out how to build them just yet. Earth does have working Deathgliders to study, they just haven't figured out how to make them for themselves yet. I'm afraid it doesn't have anything to do with any extra onboard systems. In fact, if they could figure out how to produce the Anti-Inertial drive of the Goa'uld Deathgliders, it would in fact eliminate the 2 extra engines that the F-302 needs. Currently the F-302 has 3 seperate engines, to be able to function as both an aerial and space fighter. If they could reduce that down to just one engine (like the gliders) it would save space.

The Prometheus has antigravity engines, so they know how to build them. And if they don't, they can use directly DG antigravity engines. I suppose that's what they did with the Prometheus.

[Seastallion]

Yes, but they were designed to be interstellar. But maybe the hyperdrive is not installed on the "F" production models.


The Prometheus has antigravity engines, so they know how to build them. And if they don't, they can use directly DG antigravity engines. I suppose that's what they did with the Prometheus.

That is true. The F-302's might have limited anti-gravity capability. I say limited, because the F-302's simply aren't capable of generating the necessary power to keep an antigravity field going for long, such as the Promethius or Daedalus could, with their Naqaudria generators.

[ItsDan]

I think the shot in Allies is a perspective issue, how slow the ships were going is difficult to tell from the angles.

Also, The F302's have systems which reduce their effective mass. This would mean less lift has to be produced by the wings (in atmospheric flight) to keep it airborne, meaning slower speeds are possible.

[Heaven]

it was stated in the past in both SG1 and Atlantis that the inertial dampeners
can reduce/increase the mass of a ship, so a ship with inertial dampening
engaged could theoretically freeze in mid air like we saw in 'Allies' or quickly
slow down in space like in "Intruder"
gaould deathgliders have both inertial dampeners and inertial engines which F302's don't have.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

I don't think they are since there was an old episode where they needed a runway to actually launch the F-302's long ago. Might have been the X-302 series not sure but still i don't think they are capable of it. And i agree with the comments saying its because Earth hasn't mastered anti-gravity technology and it would require more space in the fighters.

[Pamplemousse of France]

it would require more space in the fighters.

I think that is true. And ItsDan's idea, the absence of antigravity engines is compensated by the inertial dampeners which allow the wings to produce less lifting effect, or at constant lifting effect to fly slower, is probably the good one.

Earth hasn't mastered anti-gravity technology

I agree. Earth battlecruisers antigravity engines are probably goa'uld-made (at least for the Prometheus). And it's understandable: ships spend most part of their life in space where only the inertial dampeners are used. The antigravity engines are only used to take off and to land. It's not a problem if a ship of this size can't maneuvre quickly in the atmosphere, so it's not necessary to spend billions dollars to design a very effective device if a goa'uld one can do almost the same job for nothing.

[donnie_darko]

well if you go back to the ep where they explaine the 302s, we can't fit AG units into 302s. But we can fit them into 303s. We do have inertial dampeners in both 302s and 303s. But inertial dampeners are only ~80% effective.

[Mister Oragahn]

How is that possible considering that they're not equiped with anti-gravity engine (like the death glider, and they don"t seem to have engines like the ones on the F-35 or the Harrier.

Considering that their shape is hardly fitting airbone necessary conditions, they must have antigravity stuff, but maybe not as efficient as the death gliders' one.

[V-MAN]

The F-302 could be designed to be able to make signifcant stall maneuvers... but I doubt for very long. For all we know the onboard Inertial dampners might help with that. I noticed it to though.

You've hit the nail on the head there, in that scene the two F-302s were angled upwards at around 45 degrees, coupled with thrust vectoring they would be able to perform stall maneuvers like that. Test flights of the F-22 and the F-35A have seen the aircraft perform similar maneuvers.

I know it's just a CGI sequence but the F-302 being a fictional modern US aircraft would have thrust vectoring technology and most shows like this have a military advisor or two around who if asked about that CGI sequence would surely have pointed out how a combat aircraft would look while makeing a very slow maneuver like that (angle of approch etc).