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DigiFluid
September 10th, 2004, 10:43 AM
The show has established that there must be something physically inside the ring. This has been reiterated several times, through several worlds burying their gates, and more recently in episode 6.20 Memento when they unearthed their gate and it had large blocks ensuring that no Goa'uld could come back.

They've also stated before that the iris at the SGC closes just a few microns from the event horizon of the wormhole, and that the unstable formation (the splash) disintegrates anything it comes in contact with.

The iris is not blocking the gate and preventing a wormhole from forming, so why doesn't the iris have a big hole burned through it every time it's closed and an incoming wormhole shows up? Shouldn't they have to close the iris after the wormhole has formed every time?

aschen
September 10th, 2004, 10:55 AM
Good question...

Beatrice Otter
September 10th, 2004, 11:01 AM
The show has established that there must be something physically inside the ring. This has been reiterated several times, through several worlds burying their gates, and more recently in episode 6.20 Memento when they unearthed their gate and it had large blocks ensuring that no Goa'uld could come back.

They've also stated before that the iris at the SGC closes just a few microns from the event horizon of the wormhole, and that the unstable formation (the splash) disintegrates anything it comes in contact with.

The iris is not blocking the gate and preventing a wormhole from forming, so why doesn't the iris have a big hole burned through it every time it's closed and an incoming wormhole shows up? Shouldn't they have to close the iris after the wormhole has formed every time?
A very good point. But one that the show has at least been consistent in handling--there have been a few times when there was a natural iris formed on other gates (A Hundred Days, for example) and the vortex didn't affect them, either, though once the iris had been breeched, the vortex was enough to carve out that cavern that Teal'c almost died in. My guess is that a solid iris just a few microns from the event horizon somehow prevents the vortex from forming; this would be consistent with the show, though it's never been directly stated.

Mio
September 10th, 2004, 12:44 PM
A very good point. But one that the show has at least been consistent in handling--there have been a few times when there was a natural iris formed on other gates (A Hundred Days, for example) and the vortex didn't affect them, either, though once the iris had been breeched, the vortex was enough to carve out that cavern that Teal'c almost died in. My guess is that a solid iris just a few microns from the event horizon somehow prevents the vortex from forming; this would be consistent with the show, though it's never been directly stated.
The destructive vortex particles can't form when an iris is present.

When a stargate is buryed, and is turned on, the barrier forms an iris. when it's off and burried, the gate becomes unusable until it's unburried.

Lord Zedd
September 10th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Man you guys are realy analising these things.Very interesting but I don't know what to say about it.A good theory but it won't change to show.Maybe the writers of SG-1 should pay this forum a visit because I've seen some very good ideas.They should pay more attention to the little details :D :D Maybe they do?I do not know eh Not delivering critisme on the writers.Just thinking up loud

Zeratul
September 18th, 2004, 05:28 AM
I believe the Iris, since its so close and it covers completly the event horizon of the worm-hole it doesnt allow the particles to form

Mio
September 18th, 2004, 06:07 AM
Man you guys are realy analising these things.Very interesting but I don't know what to say about it.A good theory but it won't change to show.Maybe the writers of SG-1 should pay this forum a visit because I've seen some very good ideas.They should pay more attention to the little details :D :D Maybe they do?I do not know eh Not delivering critisme on the writers.Just thinking up loud i'm sure it's been said somewhere on the show....

In fact, I'm 100% sure. Watch 100 days, they had to make the gap between the stargate and the stuff it was burried in bigger with a some particle thingy so that the vortex could form, and dig a bigger cavern.

puddlejumper747
September 18th, 2004, 02:08 PM
The iris is close to the event horizon, but not too close to stop a wormhole from forming behind it. (I think the actual wormhole is supposed to be two-dimensional anyway.) And we know that the iris will not allow incoming objects to fully re-materialize, probably because full re-materialization happens just outside of the event horizon. So it would probably be the same idea with the unstable woosh effect. It just doesn't have room to manifest itself outside of the event horizon with the iris closed.
Does that make sense? :)

Mr Prophet
September 18th, 2004, 02:23 PM
So if you stood with your face really close to the event horizon of an incoming wormhole, would you end up meshed with whoever came through in a painful and terminal fashion, or would they just hit you as they came out?

Mio
September 18th, 2004, 02:38 PM
The iris is close to the event horizon, but not too close to stop a wormhole from forming behind it. (I think the actual wormhole is supposed to be two-dimensional anyway.) And we know that the iris will not allow incoming objects to fully re-materialize, probably because full re-materialization happens just outside of the event horizon. So it would probably be the same idea with the unstable woosh effect. It just doesn't have room to manifest itself outside of the event horizon with the iris closed.
Does that make sense? :)

Yes. it's exactly what I've said, basically. It was all said in 'A hundred days'....

terraatlantus
September 18th, 2004, 05:06 PM
the atlantis stargate energy barrier behaves the same way as the terra titantium/trinium iris. from the movie we know the unstable vortex spurts out forward and backward. maybe all versions of the gate are designed to detect an intentional barrier which prevents the forward burst

puddlejumper747
September 18th, 2004, 08:31 PM
So if you stood with your face really close to the event horizon of an incoming wormhole, would you end up meshed with whoever came through in a painful and terminal fashion, or would they just hit you as they came out?
I say that they would just slam into you as they came out. Hard.

Because, personally (and I really have no irrefutable evidence whatsoever to support this theory, I think that it just makes sense given what we've seen), I say that an incoming object is almost (if not completely) rematerialized while still just on the other side ("threshold zone") of the EH. If the iris is open, the object will simply be once again re-entered into our own dimension. If not, the object will be permenantly demolecularized. Take it or leave it, or ask me if you're confused, that's just my humble opinion. :P

There was also some great discussion about this topic in the thread:
Matter through an event horizon **SPOILERS for 38 Minutes and SG-1: 100 Days**
My original "threshold zone" theory is also in there somewhere. :rolleyes:

Erik Pasternak
September 18th, 2004, 10:08 PM
"Rising," ATLANTIS When the gate shield was activated right before an incoming wormhole, we saw the kawoosh expand until it hit the shield and then topped, and then went back it at the same time it would of had the shield not been there.

Zeratul
September 21st, 2004, 02:45 PM
"Rising," ATLANTIS When the gate shield was activated right before an incoming wormhole, we saw the kawoosh expand until it hit the shield and then topped, and then went back it at the same time it would of had the shield not been there.

i dont realy remember that but if u say so then the sheild, not being so close to the event horizon as the iris, it would leave enough room for the particles to form, however the sheild was able to resist the vortex (damn those ancients, so good with sheilds :P)

Major Fischer
September 21st, 2004, 02:50 PM
"Rising," ATLANTIS When the gate shield was activated right before an incoming wormhole, we saw the kawoosh expand until it hit the shield and then topped, and then went back it at the same time it would of had the shield not been there.

Does that mean if someone went 'splat' against the Atlantis shield that you'd see it, because they're rematerialized against it?

Mio
September 21st, 2004, 03:47 PM
Does that mean if someone went 'splat' against the Atlantis shield that you'd see it, because they're rematerialized against it?

No. Nothing can reform when the shield is up. Not even the vortex. When the Atlantis Iris is active, the Kawoosh can't form. All you see when something impacts it is a bright flash of light, which is the shield flaring up, as all shields do when you poke them.

Major Fischer
September 21st, 2004, 03:52 PM
No. Nothing can reform when the shield is up. Not even the vortex. When the Atlantis Iris is active, the Kawoosh can't form. All you see when something impacts it is a bright flash of light, which is the shield flaring up, as all shields do when you poke them.

That makes sense. I had this mental image of bloody goo that slid to the floor in a bloody mess when the shield was disenaged. Picturing Weir going, "Maintance to the gate room for a wet spill..."

Mio
September 21st, 2004, 05:09 PM
That makes sense. I had this mental image of bloody goo that slid to the floor in a bloody mess when the shield was disenaged. Picturing Weir going, "Maintance to the gate room for a wet spill..."

Nope. Molecules just can't form! And who knows, The Atlantis gate iris might even be closer than our iris, making it so that a Sokar-esque attempt to get through would fail. Also, Tollan phase shift might not work :eek:

Major Fischer
September 21st, 2004, 05:14 PM
Nope. Molecules just can't form! And who knows, The Atlantis gate iris might even be closer than our iris, making it so that a Sokar-esque attempt to get through would fail. Also, Tollan phase shift might not work :eek:

Awh, there goes thoughts about icky special effects.

Mio
September 21st, 2004, 05:17 PM
Awh, there goes thoughts about icky special effects.

Sorry.

DigiFluid
September 21st, 2004, 06:22 PM
No. Nothing can reform when the shield is up. Not even the vortex. When the Atlantis Iris is active, the Kawoosh can't form. All you see when something impacts it is a bright flash of light, which is the shield flaring up, as all shields do when you poke them.

Yeah, but that's an energy shield, vs. the SGC's solid-matter iris.

I just don't see any reason why the iris isn't vaporized every time the whoosh happens while it's closed.

Erik Pasternak
September 21st, 2004, 07:38 PM
Yeah, but that's an energy shield, vs. the SGC's solid-matter iris.

I just don't see any reason why the iris isn't vaporized every time the whoosh happens while it's closed.
The kawoosh can't form.

DigiFluid
September 21st, 2004, 08:15 PM
You're missing my point.

They've specifically said that the unstable wormhole 'whoosh' disintegrates any matter that's unfortunate enough to be in the way at the time. The iris is matter. The Atlantis barrier is energy (ie, non-matter).

cobraR478
September 21st, 2004, 08:34 PM
Again, the iris is so close the kaswoosh can't form.

DigiFluid
September 21st, 2004, 09:23 PM
And therein lies the problem. Why not? There's a few microns of space between the iris and the event horizon, so there's ample space for the process to happen.

Major Fischer
September 21st, 2004, 09:26 PM
And therein lies the problem. Why not? There's a few microns of space between the iris and the event horizon, so there's ample space for the process to happen.

How do you know there is ample space for that to happen?

DigiFluid
September 21st, 2004, 09:27 PM
Presumably, reactions at the subatomic and/or extradimensional levels require little to no space to occur :)

Major Fischer
September 21st, 2004, 09:34 PM
Presumably, reactions at the subatomic and/or extradimensional levels require little to no space to occur :)

Presumably, but Carter says otherwise in The Enemy Within when the Iris is first discussed. I think you are assuming too much about physics that does not exist in the real world, and chosing to ignore the rules that they give in the series.

Mio
September 22nd, 2004, 01:22 AM
And therein lies the problem. Why not? There's a few microns of space between the iris and the event horizon, so there's ample space for the process to happen.

Transcripts rock. This is from 'A hundred days'


HAMMOND: Wormhole physics, a field, Major, that you pioneered, states that under these conditions, ordinary matter won’t even reintegrate on the other side. There’s no way to overcome that.

CARTER: I think there is, Sir. And I’m not the one who thought of it. SOKAR did.

HAMMOND: SOKAR?

CARTER: Yes, Sir. When he tried to breach the iris by bombarding it with a particle beam. Sub-atomic particles barely small enough to reintegrate produced energy as they decayed.

HAMMOND: Which caused the iris to heat up.

CARTER: Exactly. Now, if we could do the same thing we could melt the hardened naquada barrier just above the event horizon and create a pocket of superheated gas.

HAMMOND: And then what?

CARTER: Well, then all we have to do is open the Gate again, Sir. The unstable vortex it normally generates would then be allowed to expand into that pocket and create an even larger cavern. One person might be able to go through, Sir, and dig it out.


Note the last line. You need a big enough gap for an unstable vortex to form.

Zeratul
September 23rd, 2004, 09:05 AM
Awh, there goes thoughts about icky special effects.

actually, even if some atoms could reform between the event horizon and the sheild, keep in mind that more then 1 bilion atoms are needed to make 1 single cell, let alone a group of cells large enough to bee seen by a naked eye

Mr Prophet
October 9th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Apropos of squat, does anyone else think that the title of this thread sounds like a chick lit novel?

Major Fischer
October 9th, 2004, 03:26 PM
Apropos of squat, does anyone else think that the title of this thread sounds like a chick lit novel?

Maybe that women behind bars movie Carter was feeling like she was in in Hathor?

Mr Prophet
October 9th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Maybe that women behind bars movie Carter was feeling like she was in in Hathor?

I was thinking more like something Helen Fielding would write, rather than Russ Meyer produce.

Beatrice Otter
October 11th, 2004, 07:32 PM
the atlantis stargate energy barrier behaves the same way as the terra titantium/trinium iris. from the movie we know the unstable vortex spurts out forward and backward. maybe all versions of the gate are designed to detect an intentional barrier which prevents the forward burst
We've never seen any gate ever do that besides the movie, so my guess is that they did something wrong which they then fixed on subsequent attempts. Remember, that was the first time they'd ever actually used the thing. (Ernest's trip doesn't count--they lost the records for it, remember?) Maybe they fed too much power into it. Maybe their computer dialling sequence was too crude.

Mio
October 11th, 2004, 07:41 PM
We've never seen any gate ever do that besides the movie, so my guess is that they did something wrong which they then fixed on subsequent attempts. Remember, that was the first time they'd ever actually used the thing. (Ernest's trip doesn't count--they lost the records for it, remember?) Maybe they fed too much power into it. Maybe their computer dialling sequence was too crude.

No. it was because they forgot to replace the light bulbs in the chevrons.

HimuraKenshin
October 12th, 2004, 07:18 AM
after watching 48 hours i have somethign on the back of my mind..... the "kawoosh" effect clears the crystals of the gate, deleting whatever imprint was there. but with the iris there there is no kawoosh and hence the imprint is stil there, so techinically should each time a copy of whatever was trasfered last time be kinda shot out of the event horizon (yes i see a bunch of wrongs in my theory but it would be fun eh?)

corey2002
December 11th, 2004, 08:29 PM
there is no "kwoosh" efect but there is still the sound

ThawkTH
December 12th, 2004, 12:16 AM
I would assume that there is a kawoosh of sorts, but perhaps because the Iris is so close it does not have the time or space to disintegrate anything - perhaps the woosh is the crystals clearing themselves of energy/data - if we say that the energy/data/matter has no space to form, couldn't it just smack into the Irish harmlessly...

I suppose what I'm asking is this - if there's not enough space for an entire kawoosh to form, perhaps there are not enough particles/is not enough energy to disintegrate anything while still emptying crystals. Dunno. Poke holes as you like!

EDIT:

"CARTER: Yes, Sir. When he tried to breach the iris by bombarding it with a particle beam. Sub-atomic particles barely small enough to reintegrate produced energy as they decayed.

HAMMOND: Which caused the iris to heat up."

Remember though how signifigantly the iris tended to absorb energy being sent through the gate? I don't remember the episode, but it's the one where the stargate was gonna explode, I believe
Possible season 6/7 spoiler

It was Anubis using an Ancient weapon
I remember Carter talking about how the Iris was saving us because it was absorbing so much of the energy form the gate, saving them a lot of time...

So, if the iris absorbs that incredible an amount of energy, perhaps it absorbs some of the energy of the kawoosh...Between the small space for only some particles to form and the nature of the Iris, is this logical?

Have fun with it!

The Mighty Musnud
March 10th, 2005, 01:15 PM
What bugs me is that the even when the iris is closed, we still hear the "whoosh" sound effect that accompanies the unstable burst. At any rate, I agree with the Digi-guy, despite what is implied in 100 days.
According to quantum physics, any effect caused by the creation of a wormhole (including an unstable mass) would occur at the subatomic level, and thus (like Sokar's particle beam) begin the process of disintegration within those first few micrometers. There should be a big hole in the iris everytime a wormhole activates.
But even if we buy into this "it can't form" bunk, there still shouldn't be a "whoosh" sound.

:cool:

Beatrice Otter
March 10th, 2005, 10:42 PM
What bugs me is that the even when the iris is closed, we still hear the "whoosh" sound effect that accompanies the unstable burst. At any rate, I agree with the Digi-guy, despite what is implied in 100 days.
According to quantum physics, any effect caused by the creation of a wormhole (including an unstable mass) would occur at the subatomic level, and thus (like Sokar's particle beam) begin the process of disintegration within those first few micrometers. There should be a big hole in the iris everytime a wormhole activates.
But even if we buy into this "it can't form" bunk, there still shouldn't be a "whoosh" sound.

:cool:
Maybe not. But then again, starships shouldn't make sounds as they fly through space, either.
Oh, well.

Franklyn Blaze
March 10th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Maybe not. But then again, starships shouldn't make sounds as they fly through space, either.
Oh, well.

That's so true. I remember first watching 2001: A Space Odyssey and realizing I had taken star trek for granted all those years. Still, it would be strange to see huge space battles in total silence.

The Mighty Musnud
March 11th, 2005, 11:46 AM
Maybe not. But then again, starships shouldn't make sounds as they fly through space, either.

True, but in this case, the parameters for the "whoosh" sound are established and then broken. Whereas, in the case of sound in outer space. Outer space is never established (in the show) as being a vacuum. So the two aren't really comparable... :rolleyes:

Mr Prophet
March 11th, 2005, 12:59 PM
That's so true. I remember first watching 2001: A Space Odyssey and realizing I had taken star trek for granted all those years. Still, it would be strange to see huge space battles in total silence.

But potentially very powerful.

DavidNetk
March 12th, 2005, 11:59 AM
It is possible for a wormhole to be stablished without a vortex. A good example was when Thor came to the SGC and opened the gate with his egg-looking-asgard-remote-control and there was no vortex. How did he prevent it? Don't know. But maybe the iris does not allows a vortex to form. As we can see there are exceptions, and it's possible.

Just my $0.02 :p

Star_Lord
June 26th, 2005, 06:45 PM
Now I'm sorry to bring this up again and I know we have an answer but something was still bothering me about it.

Now i believe the answer we got last time was that the 3 microns gap between the event horizon was insufficent space for anything to materialise therefore when the wormhole was established on earth the "kawoosh" never developed. I have two problems with this theory.

1. The "kawoosh" is and energy bubble not matter, therefore it requires less than 1 nanometre to start developing and as soon as this energy starts to develop it will consume anything in its path including a titanium or trinium-titanium alloy metal plate 3 micons infront of it.

2. In episode 2.10 Bane, you can distincly hear the bugs hitting the iris after they close it. It creats quite a loud thud noise on the Iris. If no matter is rematerialised from the event horizon of the wormhole because of the iris then there should not be any sound caused by solid matter impacting the Iris.

spg_1983
June 26th, 2005, 06:50 PM
AAAAHHHHHH not this question again!! lol. just kidding. the points you raise are valid, this is basically a situation of "well the reason it isnt destroyed is --- wait look over there whats that?!?!?!" i think TPTB just would rather we dont think about this question too much. should the iris be destroyed? probably, should there be noises when things impact on it? probably not. but from a cinematic point of view its cooler this way.

Skydiver
June 26th, 2005, 06:52 PM
it's a source of a lot of irregularities. such as, we hear bugs in bane, we hear jaff in enem within...but in the Other Side, all we get is a little blip on a monitor, no thunk

TechnoWraith
June 26th, 2005, 06:57 PM
The well-known plot hole arises yet again. ;)

Oh the plot holes they love to confuse us with. :D

sg-1fanintn
June 26th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Well, as they say, no one is perfect....not even TPTB! :cool: (tongue in cheek)

Metonic
June 26th, 2005, 08:08 PM
The sound is simply the Matter and energy being rushed out and hitting the iris before rematerialization. its like blowing on a piece of paper u blow for a millesecond and then the paper makes a sound even tho ur done, type thing.

Kawoosh should destroy the iris. however the script has prevented it from doing so. Also in many episodes it goes up after the kawoosh, but other episodes it stays up ??? but once again its called the Script it was used by ancients to give power to the writers so they could do as they wish.

Star_Lord
June 26th, 2005, 08:21 PM
Lol, ok I think i can leave it at: The iris isn't destroyed because the writers didn't want it to be.

Lord You
June 26th, 2005, 08:39 PM
Now I'm sorry to bring this up again and I know we have an answer but something was still bothering me about it.

Now i believe the answer we got last time was that the 3 microns gap between the event horizon was insufficent space for anything to materialise therefore when the wormhole was established on earth the "kawoosh" never developed. I have two problems with this theory.

1. The "kawoosh" is and energy bubble not matter, therefore it requires less than 1 nanometre to start developing and as soon as this energy starts to develop it will consume anything in its path including a titanium or trinium-titanium alloy metal plate 3 micons infront of it.

2. In episode 2.10 Bane, you can distincly hear the bugs hitting the iris after they close it. It creats quite a loud thud noise on the Iris. If no matter is rematerialised from the event horizon of the wormhole because of the iris then there should not be any sound caused by solid matter impacting the Iris.
Matter is energy. Just because the Swoosh is "energy" doesn't mean it would form in 3 microns. It seems to me to be based on a chain reaction creating the particles around the event horizion, distorting it (and causing the destructive properties) until it can't sustain the swoosh-particle creation (and falls inward). However the iris prevents integration of particles in mass, so no critical mass of swoosh-particles form. Q.E.D.

As for the bugs in Bane, particles do form behind the iris, just not at the same rate. Otherwise the iris wouldn't work for anything. That's why small particles get through by short-lived particles and solid matter can't.

Star_Lord
June 26th, 2005, 09:20 PM
Matter is energy. Just because the Swoosh is "energy" doesn't mean it would form in 3 microns. It seems to me to be based on a chain reaction creating the particles around the event horizion, distorting it (and causing the destructive properties) until it can't sustain the swoosh-particle creation (and falls inward). However the iris prevents integration of particles in mass, so no critical mass of swoosh-particles form. Q.E.D.


Energy is not always matter. the kawoosh is pure energy just like light or a magnetic field are all types of energy. Light is not considered matter.

Lord You
June 26th, 2005, 09:38 PM
So? That doesn't mean the iris couldn't block the reintegration of those types of particles as well. In fact, it was established that it severely reduces electromagnetic flux through the gate. This indicates that energetic particles need to be integrated as well... probably from controlling the decay of whatever particles make up the event horizion.

sg-1fanintn
June 26th, 2005, 09:39 PM
Lol, ok I think i can leave it at: The iris isn't destroyed because the writers didn't want it to be.

Bingo! Simple as that!

Metonic
June 26th, 2005, 09:41 PM
As i've said its all part of this magical thing call a script. it allows the writers to do as they please. it isnt destroyed because the writers say so, it does what it does because writers say so, it doesnt matter how much matter it blocks or what kind of energy as long as it blocks.

Macharius0
June 26th, 2005, 11:48 PM
The solution I find most plausible is rather ingenius I think. After losing several irises, Carter, in her infinite wisdom, came up with the solution to coat the back of the iris with blue jello. This wonderful substance boils away by the "kawoosh" in a manner similar to ablative armor, and it's natural jiggliness shields the iris from the actual impact. The only trick is getting Siler out there with a bucket of blue stuff before the next wormhole gets activated, sometimes he's got to rush. :)

Cassiopeia
June 27th, 2005, 06:44 AM
The solution I find most plausible is rather ingenius I think. After losing several irises, Carter, in her infinite wisdom, came up with the solution to coat the back of the iris with blue jello. This wonderful substance boils away by the "kawoosh" in a manner similar to ablative armor, and it's natural jiggliness shields the iris from the actual impact. The only trick is getting Siler out there with a bucket of blue stuff before the next wormhole gets activated, sometimes he's got to rush. :)

And in view of this brilliant solution, imagine the relief of the Atlantis team in finding that the Atlantis gate uses an energy shield as it would have been quite impossible to ship ten ton of blue jello through to Atlantis given the power constraints on the ZPM when they originally opened the wormhole back on Earth!!! LOL

But that brings up another point - in Rising, when the Wraith darts follow Sheppard and Co into the gate, once the jumper is through and the shield raised the darts hit the shield with one mega thwump so... energy on energy maybe?

Elite Anubis Guard
June 27th, 2005, 06:55 AM
Isnt it to do with something to the same effect as why people go splat on the iris, its so close to where matters reintergrates that it doesnt allow it to so this would presumably stop the unstable vortex forming aswell!

Sum1
June 27th, 2005, 08:36 AM
Maybe the gate knows the iris is very close to the event horizon so it "kawooshes" (is that a word?) on the other side and we just don't see it?

briguy213
June 27th, 2005, 08:40 AM
or, maybe because it is a tv xhow they do not need to worry about the kawoosh hitting the iris.

BackStageJim
June 27th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I thought that the 'Kawoosh' formation is after the event horizon has formed. Since the 'event'' has not formed, then it would not impact the iris.

Sort of a chemical reaction. too much of product 'B' and it expodes .. otherwise inert.

Mio
June 27th, 2005, 05:49 PM
This is, perhaps, the most answered question on these forums.

The vortex can not form because it is made up of particles. These particles can't form because the iris is too close:

Here's the transcript that proves it, its from A Hundred Days



The open the gate to Edora, and the malp doesn't reform.


TEAL’C: If the Edoran STARGATE were truly buried, how then was the wormhole established.

CARTER: The meteor hit while the wormhole was active.

DANIEL: So, so?

CARTER: So it’s possible that the molten naquada hardened just above the event horizon.

DANIEL: Like an iris.

But the vortex didn't occur, so a cavern wasn't created.


HAMMOND: Wormhole physics, a field, Major, that you pioneered, states that under these conditions, ordinary matter won’t even reintegrate on the other side. There’s no way to overcome that.

CARTER: I think there is, Sir. And I’m not the one who thought of it. SOKAR did.

HAMMOND: SOKAR?

CARTER: Yes, Sir. When he tried to breach the iris by bombarding it with a particle beam. Sub-atomic particles barely small enough to reintegrate produced energy as they decayed.

HAMMOND: Which caused the iris to heat up.

CARTER: Exactly. Now, if we could do the same thing we could melt the hardened naquada barrier just above the event horizon and create a pocket of superheated gas.

HAMMOND: And then what?

CARTER: Well, then all we have to do is open the Gate again, Sir. The unstable vortex it normally generates would then be allowed to expand into that pocket and create an even larger cavern. One person might be able to go through, Sir, and dig it out.

They basically fire particles at the barrier until it pushes it back far enough to allow the kawoosh to form.

Mio
June 27th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Energy is not always matter. the kawoosh is pure energy just like light or a magnetic field are all types of energy. Light is not considered matter.


DANIEL
Well you're right in that it is an illusion. It's not actually water.

RIGAR
Then what is it?

O'NEILL
Magic.

CARTER
It's an event horizon made up of quantum particles that form a wormhole.

We know that the event horizon is made up of particles, Therefore, its reasonable to assume that the kawoosh, since it is basically a forming event horizon, is also made up of particles.

Elite Anubis Guard
June 28th, 2005, 03:41 AM
Mio just gave you the best explanation!

Mio
June 28th, 2005, 04:46 AM
Mio just gave you the best explanation!

Aww. ::feels loved::

Ancient 1
June 28th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Ah....asked and answered....again. :rolleyes:

Star_Lord
June 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM
While this thread is still running, I just wanted to point out one other thing to do with the kawoosh. On Earth when a wormhole is established the stargate still makes the sound of the "kawoosh" forming and then receding back into the event horizon even when the Iris is closed. Obviously a mistake but i just thought it was funny. BTW Thank you all for your answers even though this has been asked a million times.

daveFDIS
June 29th, 2005, 10:28 PM
Perhaps a more appropriate question would be how did they install the iris anyways? Wouldn't they have a disassemble the gate or something? Just something I've noticed ever since "Children of the Gods".

robinmdh
July 7th, 2005, 03:44 AM
in the origional movie the kawoosh was explained as a pressure equalizing effect, ofcourse since watergate would have pushed huge quantities of water trough the gate that isn't entirely true
but with a 3 micron clearing you could argue thath it would create a vacuem so there is no need for the kawoosh
ok thath's far fetched so it's the script why do you care anyway :P ?

Col. Newman
July 7th, 2005, 09:25 AM
This belongs in Science and Tech

Lucreleia
August 14th, 2005, 11:20 AM
I just read the transcript of Children of the Gods, and I wondered how it is possible that the energy vortex of the incoming wormhole does not destroy the iris.
The first iris was made of titanium, and the second one of a trinium-titanium alloy, but for what I know, the vortex destroys everything in his path.
I have seen in some episodes that the iris is closed before the vortex appears, so....
Could someone bring some light to this question?

If this discussion was set before, my apologies.

Jeffer
August 14th, 2005, 11:31 AM
i wonderd the same thing and i just give it to a plot hole

Eoin
August 14th, 2005, 11:31 AM
i think because the iris is 3 or 0.3 microns away from the event horizon it stops the vortex from forming, erm... im sure someone else could explain it better :p

Qasim
August 14th, 2005, 11:41 AM
This question comes up all the time:


Why is the iris not disintegrated by the wormhole?
There is a microscopic gap between the iris and the wormhole event horizon -- less than a few microns ("Serpent's Song"). Just as the iris does not allow matter to reintegrate, so also does it not allow whatever it is that makes up the "whoosh" to burst forth. Though the Stargate is occasionally activated with the iris already closed, the "whoosh" does not reintegrate and affect the iris. It is apparently not necessary in order for a wormhole to be established.

Seastallion
August 15th, 2005, 05:19 AM
i think because the iris is 3 or 0.3 microns away from the event horizon it stops the vortex from forming, erm... im sure someone else could explain it better :p

That is part of it yes. :) In addition to the previous post, let me add that the Event Horizon of the wormhole is itself not dangerous. Unless you try to enter the horizon from an incoming wormhole... that would be suicide because you'd have nowhere to reintegrate to. The danger comes from the inherent unstable nature of the vortex. The wormhole cannot transmit matter until the Event Horizon is firmly established, thus anything that is caught in it is immediately de-molecularized. Since there is no way for the object to reintergrate (just as the example above of an incoming wormhole), it is simply destroyed.

The Event Horizon is not that different from the soapy flat-bubble on a bubble blowing stick. The Event Horizon forms along the inner edge of the stargate as an 'anchor' of sorts. Normally, when it forms the gate is free and clear which allows the vortex to form (though the vortex isn't absolutely necessary). However, whenever the gate is completely blocked (as in buried) the wormhole will not connect. On the other hand, If the gate is covered close enough to where the Event Horizon forms, the vortex doesn't have a chance to form, so instead the Event Horizon simply 'washes' up over the covering to the inner rim of the gate.

As an example... imagine if I took a bubble blowing stick and held it facing downward to the ground and poured a soapy solution over it. The solution would partially drip through (like the vortex) the ring part of the bubble stick, but some of it would catch to form a soapy flat-bubble within the ring (like the Event Horizon) of the stick. On the other hand, if I took something flat, and covered the opening of the ring, none of the solution would drip through, but instead would immediately spread across the flat surface of the covering until it reached the inner rim of the bubble stick. I admit, this is a rather crude example, but it fits well enough. ;)

Heru'urs_first_prime
August 15th, 2005, 06:30 AM
That is part of it yes. :) In addition to the previous post, let me add that the Event Horizon of the wormhole is itself not dangerous. Unless you try to enter the horizon from an incoming wormhole... that would be suicide because you'd have nowhere to reintegrate to. The danger comes from the inherent unstable nature of the vortex. The wormhole cannot transmit matter until the Event Horizon is firmly established, thus anything that is caught in it is immediately de-molecularized. Since there is no way for the object to reintergrate (just as the example above of an incoming wormhole), it is simply destroyed.

The Event Horizon is not that different from the soapy flat-bubble on a bubble blowing stick. The Event Horizon forms along the inner edge of the stargate as an 'anchor' of sorts. Normally, when it forms the gate is free and clear which allows the vortex to form (though the vortex isn't absolutely necessary). However, whenever the gate is completely blocked (as in buried) the wormhole will not connect. On the other hand, If the gate is covered close enough to where the Event Horizon forms, the vortex doesn't have a chance to form, so instead the Event Horizon simply 'washes' up over the covering to the inner rim of the gate.

As an example... imagine if I took a bubble blowing stick and held it facing downward to the ground and poured a soapy solution over it. The solution would partially drip through (like the vortex) the ring part of the bubble stick, but some of it would catch to form a soapy flat-bubble within the ring (like the Event Horizon) of the stick. On the other hand, if I took something flat, and covered the opening of the ring, none of the solution would drip through, but instead would immediately spread across the flat surface of the covering until it reached the inner rim of the bubble stick. I admit, this is a rather crude example, but it fits well enough. ;)

woo! you go Seastallion, i used to think that the iris is too strong to be 'eaten' from te Kawoosh, so wood and people (softer things) can get vapourised, but not the iris

Lucreleia
August 19th, 2005, 04:28 PM
Thanks qasimjavid and Seastallion for your answers!

Did you just think of it, or took it from any explanation that TPTB may have given?

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 05:14 PM
That is part of it yes. :) In addition to the previous post, let me add that the Event Horizon of the wormhole is itself not dangerous. Unless you try to enter the horizon from an incoming wormhole... that would be suicide because you'd have nowhere to reintegrate to. The danger comes from the inherent unstable nature of the vortex. The wormhole cannot transmit matter until the Event Horizon is firmly established, thus anything that is caught in it is immediately de-molecularized. Since there is no way for the object to reintergrate (just as the example above of an incoming wormhole), it is simply destroyed.

The Event Horizon is not that different from the soapy flat-bubble on a bubble blowing stick. The Event Horizon forms along the inner edge of the stargate as an 'anchor' of sorts. Normally, when it forms the gate is free and clear which allows the vortex to form (though the vortex isn't absolutely necessary). However, whenever the gate is completely blocked (as in buried) the wormhole will not connect. On the other hand, If the gate is covered close enough to where the Event Horizon forms, the vortex doesn't have a chance to form, so instead the Event Horizon simply 'washes' up over the covering to the inner rim of the gate.

As an example... imagine if I took a bubble blowing stick and held it facing downward to the ground and poured a soapy solution over it. The solution would partially drip through (like the vortex) the ring part of the bubble stick, but some of it would catch to form a soapy flat-bubble within the ring (like the Event Horizon) of the stick. On the other hand, if I took something flat, and covered the opening of the ring, none of the solution would drip through, but instead would immediately spread across the flat surface of the covering until it reached the inner rim of the bubble stick. I admit, this is a rather crude example, but it fits well enough. ;)
just read your explanation and i have to say, Well done. I dont know anyone who could have thought of explaining it in such a simple manner, excellent post :)

Lord Loz
August 19th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Ignore all that. It's because of...the Furlings. Yes. The Furlings :)

vonbismarck
August 19th, 2005, 05:29 PM
I have a question though. I am sure it was explained in the episode but I am too lazy to find it and watch it again. In the ep. where O'Neill is stuck on a planet were the stargate got buried when it was struck by a meteor, didn't they use the vortex destroy the rock that was burying it and then sending Teal'c through to continue the digging. Why didn't the rock(s) stop the vortex from forming?

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 05:35 PM
I have a question though. I am sure it was explained in the episode but I am too lazy to find it and watch it again. In the ep. where O'Neill is stuck on a planet were the stargate got buried when it was struck by a meteor, didn't they use the vortex destroy the rock that was burying it and then sending Teal'c through to continue the digging. Why didn't the rock(s) stop the vortex from forming?
any idea on what the name of that ep is??? cause i cant remeber seeing that and i love watching eps that i cant remember what happend (it brings all the excitment back :D ), im too lazy to go find out which ep it was aswell..lol

vonbismarck
August 19th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Well I hope you are happy, I have gone and looked through all the eps. to find it. It is entitled "A Hundred Days" and is the 17th ep. in Season 3. If you do watch it and I sure you can poke some holes in my question and make me look the fool that I am.

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Well I hope you are happy, I have gone and looked through all the eps. to find it. It is entitled "A Hundred Days" and is the 17th ep. in Season 3. If you do watch it and I sure you can poke some holes in my question and make me look the fool that I am.
???, if i insulted you or something, Im sorry :o , i didnt intend to insult anybody.

vonbismarck
August 19th, 2005, 06:40 PM
No need to go arounding thinking you insulting people. If I were insulted, I would probably let you know. Also, I doubt I am as knowledgably as others here are and I am sure there are holes in question. Let's face it, I can't even speak technobabble like others. Now just watch the ep. and shoot down my post.

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 06:59 PM
No need to go arounding thinking you insulting people. If I were insulted, I would probably let you know. Also, I doubt I am as knowledgably as others here are and I am sure there are holes in question. Let's face it, I can't even speak technobabble like others. Now just watch the ep. and shoot down my post.
I have no intention of shooting down your post :) , im not like that.
You said in your last post "make me look like the fool that i am", i think a person who is willing to bring down another person is morally undeveloped (i think thats what it is..lol) i would never bring a person down.
+ im not as knowledgable as other people in this forum either, but the thing is we're here having fun and expressing our opinions and theories on stargate and whatever :) .


P.S You are not a fool, you made a mistake, big deal everyone makes mistakes, i have made alot myself..lol

GbaGuy
August 19th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I have a question though. I am sure it was explained in the episode but I am too lazy to find it and watch it again. In the ep. where O'Neill is stuck on a planet were the stargate got buried when it was struck by a meteor, didn't they use the vortex destroy the rock that was burying it and then sending Teal'c through to continue the digging. Why didn't the rock(s) stop the vortex from forming?

From what I remember, a naquada (or other alloy or something) had formed
around the gate in an iris-like way. They could connect, but the MALP wouldn't reintegrate. They then used an energy beam to destroy the "natural
iris", and then the next gate activation vortex carved out the hole within
which Teal'c worked. He then dug to the surface & found Jack. Whether him
and Jack then spent a while digging out the gate, and then manually dialed,
or they just plopped back down the hole to dial (unlikely since the hole would
be about as big as the vortex), I don't know. I hope I got some of this right,
and it answers some questions :)

Wyrminarrd
August 19th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Which just raises the question of why didn´t Ra do the exact same thing when the people of Earth buried the gate after rebelling against him. The Goa´uld don´t strike me as the types who just let a little thing like that go unpunished and if it were possible to dial in and somehow get through.

Plus didn´t they mention in the first episode (or one of the first) that they´d tried to dial Abydos but been unable to get a lock because the gate was buried? It´s been a long time since I watched COTG so maybe I´m wrong on this.

Personally I think the writers were drunk when they wrote in the Iris :p

vonbismarck
August 19th, 2005, 08:20 PM
That explaination is as good as any and is probably the right one. As for the things I said before, I should clarify that I am one of a defeatist attitude with a sick/dark/abnormal/otherwise unknown of sense of humor. Things are say are in jest. I know that it does not help that you can't see my facial expressions or tone of voice. I agree though, that I do not like people who put others down. I don't mean to take fun away from others (I will try and reign in my sense of humor). No promises though.

Seastallion
August 19th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Thanks qasimjavid and Seastallion for your answers!

Did you just think of it, or took it from any explanation that TPTB may have given?


Nah... no TPTB really. :p I just watch a lot of Stargate, have a decent understanding of physics, and think waaaay to much. ;) I also have a natural gift to sometimes be able to take complex ideas and explaining them in less complex terms. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... I'm glad it worked this time. :D

In response to Wyrminnard (you must be a 'Dune' fan... :p me too. ;) ) :

Ra was on Earth when the rebellion took place. He left, and didn't bother to come back because Earth had nothing of value left. The Goa'uld originally came to Earth to get human slaves and hosts. They already had taken millions of humans to other worlds by that point, and the humans of Earth were so pathetic and worthless, Ra simply picked up and left. We weren't even worth 'punishing'. He could've done it, but he probably decided that keeping up with Earth was pointless, and that he had other better things to do. So he left, and that was that.

GbaGuy
August 19th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Ra was on Earth when the rebellion took place. He left, and didn't bother to come back because Earth had nothing of value left. The Goa'uld originally came to Earth to get human slaves and hosts. They already had taken millions of humans to other worlds by that point, and the humans of Earth were so pathetic and worthless, Ra simply picked up and left. We weren't even worth 'punishing'. He could've done it, but he probably decided that keeping up with Earth was pointless, and that he had other better things to do. So he left, and that was that.That's a good point. I would agree with
it, adding, that the second Earth proved it had advanced to the point of being
a threat, Apophis personally took just two ships to reconquer it. Earth was lucky
Daniel had his little alternate universe thingy.

drronin112
August 19th, 2005, 09:07 PM
The reason they gave in "A Hundred days" that they were able to establish a wormhole to the planet and use the particle beam cannon thingy to vaporize the rock there was that since the gate had been open when the meteor hit, all the matter that normally would have gotten in the way of the "bubble" forming inside the gate was moved through the gate and hardened. I believe Sam explains it as having formed a natural iris over the gate.

I think the reason that makes a difference is, if a gate is buried it is encased in rock and dirt and has stuff between the sides of the inner ring. Like putting a 'Cork" in the Bubble ring stick. If it's just covered up by stone and there's a space for the Hyperspacial "Soap" to coalesse and form into the event horizon, it'll form a gate, but either things will fall back through it...or will splatter against whatever is above it.

If you remember in the episode: "New Ground" (Season 3, Ep 19) Carter says that when they tried dialing that gate before that they got a "Busy signal" where the gate wouldn't lock. And it starts off with the gate being slowly cleared away of the stone that it had been encased in. So Chevron 7 won't engage if the gate is encased in debris (AKA has a cork stuck in it) But if there's space enough for it to form a event horizon (AKA Soap film) it will.

Wyrminarrd
August 19th, 2005, 09:09 PM
In response to Wyrminnard (you must be a 'Dune' fan... :p me too. ;) ) :

Ra was on Earth when the rebellion took place. He left, and didn't bother to come back because Earth had nothing of value left. The Goa'uld originally came to Earth to get human slaves and hosts. They already had taken millions of humans to other worlds by that point, and the humans of Earth were so pathetic and worthless, Ra simply picked up and left. We weren't even worth 'punishing'. He could've done it, but he probably decided that keeping up with Earth was pointless, and that he had other better things to do. So he left, and that was that.

I am a Dune fan but what made you think I was one?

And as for Ra not feeling Earth was worth it, I´d think it would just be the principle of the thing. It sets a very bad example to just let people get away with rebeling aginst you, both in the eyes of other slave populations but more importantly it would be a sign of weakness in the eyes of other system lords.

And in the movie I´m pretty sure that Ra wasn´t on Earth at the time of the rebellion....

EDIT: Just read Drronin´s post, it does answer my question and make enough sense for me to accept it.

Seastallion
August 20th, 2005, 04:11 AM
I am a Dune fan but what made you think I was one?

And as for Ra not feeling Earth was worth it, I´d think it would just be the principle of the thing. It sets a very bad example to just let people get away with rebeling aginst you, both in the eyes of other slave populations but more importantly it would be a sign of weakness in the eyes of other system lords.

And in the movie I´m pretty sure that Ra wasn´t on Earth at the time of the rebellion....


Your handle actually... ;) It reminded me of the original 'Dune' movie, where the Baron Harkonnen's mentat assasin Piter De Vries was saying that it would be better for Paul and his mother to die in the "innards of a worm". As soon as I read your name my mind immediately associated it with the phrase.

Perhaps, but there have been many examples where human slaves have rebelled on other worlds, and the Goa'uld didn't bother to punish them or go back simply because the worlds were no longer worth bothering with. For one thing, their slaves on other worlds would have no way of knowing anything that took place anywhere other than their own world (do we??). For another, a System Lord has hundreds of planets to oversee as well as rivals to occupy their attention. A System Lord would consider an abandoned planet to still be his, even if he wasn't actually doing anything with it at the moment.

As Teal'c has said, the Goa'uld often abandon planets and the slaves they had brought there once the resources of that planet no longer could be obtained. The only reason to hold such planets after that would only be for strategic reasons. Earth, by the time of the rebellion was so far outside the wider Goa'uld domain that it was in fact an imposition for Ra to remain on Earth. He was probably planning to leave anyways eventually, but the rebellion just sped things up.

Ra might have decided to 'punish' Earth, but if he had other things preoccupying him, he wouldn't. He was in the process of moving his seat of power, he had the other System Lords to contend with. He probably didn't want to sacrifice any military hardware to blowup a backwater planet while he needed them to defend his position against the other System Lords and possibly outside threats, such as the Asgard. We have no way of knowing precisely what the politics of the galaxy were at the time, except to say we know what did happen. Ra didn't come back. Obviously that means Earth wasn't worth bothering with, regardless of what reason you ascribe it to.

What in the movie made you think that? The Movie never said one way or another, wether Ra was on Earth at the time. Also, where the movie contradicts the Series, it is not considered Canon. The TV Series takes priority over the Movie, so that anything that was established in the movie that was then contradicted by the series, is no longer valid. Only the TV series matters for discussion here. The movie lasted for 2 hours. The TV series has lasted for 179 (hours) episodes and counting.


As to the thing in "One Hundred Days" yes, the molten Earth created a natural iris over the open gate's Event Horizon that enabled the gate to still be activated but no travel. They then used the particle beam to cut enough of the molten rock face (the 'natural' iris) so that the vortex would be able to form, thus eating through molten rock and dirt. They then shut down the gate, and sent Teal'c into the cavity left behind by the Vortex of the reactivated gate. It would be like putting a big dent in the middle of the Earth gate's Iris. Such a dent would allow the vortex to form thus causing the Iris to be consumed.

Qasim
August 20th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Thanks qasimjavid

Did you just think of it, or took it from any explanation that TPTB may have given?Got it from http://www.gateworld.net/faq.shtml

Dr Weir
August 20th, 2005, 06:06 AM
I just read the transcript of Children of the Gods, and I wondered how it is possible that the energy vortex of the incoming wormhole does not destroy the iris.
The first iris was made of titanium, and the second one of a trinium-titanium alloy, but for what I know, the vortex destroys everything in his path.
I have seen in some episodes that the iris is closed before the vortex appears, so....
Could someone bring some light to this question?

If this discussion was set before, my apologies.
I thought in the first ep there was no sheild on the stargate and that it wasn't put in until the second ep. Am I wrong?

Lucreleia
September 4th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Nah... no TPTB really. :p I just watch a lot of Stargate, have a decent understanding of physics, and think waaaay to much. ;) I also have a natural gift to sometimes be able to take complex ideas and explaining them in less complex terms. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... I'm glad it worked this time. :D

I personally don't think that there is anything called overthinking ;)

If I wasn't overthinking myself, I probably would not care about things like physical explanation to vortexes.... :rolleyes:

I don't consider myself a geek, the tipe you would see in Conventions asking the writers how could that engine achieve so much speed with the configuration it had... (for further reference, see Galaxy Quest), but then, there are not Stargate Conventions in Argentina, so I guess I shouldn't talk in advance... :p

Lucreleia
September 4th, 2005, 06:50 PM
I thought in the first ep there was no sheild on the stargate and that it wasn't put in until the second ep. Am I wrong?

It appeared in Children of the Gods part 1, when Jack and company returned from Abydos after picking Daniel.

Ancient 1
September 4th, 2005, 10:18 PM
Again with this question? A quick SEARCH would turn up 4 or 5 discussions on this subject; all saying the same thing. :D

Lucreleia
September 5th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Got it from http://www.gateworld.net/faq.shtml

Thanks for the tip, I've hadn't seen the FAQs... :S
Yes, kind of stupid, I know, being the first place to look.... :p

Ancient1: Hey, just don't get mad, I'm not so used to using all the tools of the Forum, I didn't know how to search for this...

plaw15
October 5th, 2005, 05:03 PM
I have always thought that the splash thing should leave a big hole in the iris. I might be wrong but it sort of makes sense.

Kralizec
October 5th, 2005, 05:17 PM
I have always thought that the splash thing should leave a big hole in the iris. I might be wrong but it sort of makes sense.
That's the magic of the movies and television. It doesn't have to make sense.:p Logically, it should blow right through the iris (but not the shield in Atlantis), but TPTB (The Powers That Be) decided that it doesn't, so it doesn't. They also don't have to spend $$ on SFX, saving $$ for better things.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
October 5th, 2005, 05:29 PM
More or less, the flush simply cannot form. The event horizon will open, but the kafwoosh is reflected backwards before it can reassemble. Matter won't pass, not of any kind.

Lucreleia
October 5th, 2005, 05:41 PM
I've been said that this question was asked and anwered many times before..... when I opened a thread asking the exact same thing!!! :p :D

But don't worry, every once in a while, someone asks this....

So, instead of explaining what was explained to me, just visit Why isn't the iris destroyed by the energy vortex? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=15706), and you will find some answers... then you decide if they are convincing enough.

And also, as I was informed (because I missed it too :o ), this particular answer is at the FAQ Section! Yes, I know, we NEVER read that... :D

I hope this helps... and pass the wisdom to the next that posts this question! ;)

babaganoosh
October 5th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Maybe the kawoosh is created several more microns beyond what the iris currently sits at. The kawoosh can't form and the iris is left intact.

spg_1983
October 5th, 2005, 07:16 PM
is it that time of the month already? its been a while since i saw this question posted.... the simple answer is that the iris is positioned so close to the event horizon it doesnt allow the kawoosh to form.

Eoin
October 5th, 2005, 07:57 PM
is it that time of the month already? its been a while since i saw this question posted.... the simple answer is that the iris is positioned so close to the event horizon it doesnt allow the kawoosh to form.
0.3microns to be exact :p

Really?? You didnt see this question on the forum in awhile....there was one a few days ago or maybe a week ago...but not long ago..lol

:)

plaw15
October 5th, 2005, 08:05 PM
is it that time of the month already? its been a while since i saw this question posted.... the simple answer is that the iris is positioned so close to the event horizon it doesnt allow the kawoosh to form.
If the splash couldn't form then I think the wormhole wouldn't establish?

SG-1ssm
October 5th, 2005, 08:06 PM
That's the magic of the movies and television. It doesn't have to make sense.:p Logically, it should blow right through the iris (but not the shield in Atlantis), but TPTB (The Powers That Be) decided that it doesn't, so it doesn't. They also don't have to spend $$ on SFX, saving $$ for better things.

Because it's so close to the event horison that the splosh can't form.

babaganoosh
October 5th, 2005, 08:07 PM
I have a simple answer:

Because the producers don't want it to.

spg_1983
October 5th, 2005, 08:09 PM
If the splash couldn't form then I think the wormhole wouldn't establish?no the splash is just a uncontrolled burst of energy released as the wormhole forms. the splash is not neccasary for the creation of the wormhole and it is possible to create a wormhole with out the splash.

plaw15
October 5th, 2005, 08:40 PM
no the splash is just a uncontrolled burst of energy released as the wormhole forms. the splash is not neccasary for the creation of the wormhole and it is possible to create a wormhole with out the splash.
Think I get it now.

Kralizec
October 6th, 2005, 07:20 AM
I have a simple answer:

Because the producers don't want it to.
That's exactly what I said back in the first reply to the original question. I've already claimed credit for that.:p

DrSpencerLangford
October 6th, 2005, 07:57 AM
Well thats makes no sense. Remember how O'niell got trapped on that one planet for a LONG LONG time, and they dialed the gate to make the energy surge dig up all the rock so Teal'c could go in and try to dig his way up? Well they said that the lava and rock formed an artificial "Iris" around the gate, but still the "kawoosh" managed to destroy it. Talk about double standards. I think if a subatomic partical beam could enter the iris the kawoosh should be able to as well. After all, carter said we diassemble at a sub atomic level and are transported as pure energy (which is of course sub atomic) when we gate travel. If the gate supplies energy to do this I think the kawoosh would be made up of subatmoic energy as well. Darn you WRITERS! You can only close the iris after an incoming worm hole is established!

spg_1983
October 6th, 2005, 08:12 AM
Well thats makes no sense. Remember how O'niell got trapped on that one planet for a LONG LONG time, and they dialed the gate to make the energy surge dig up all the rock so Teal'c could go in and try to dig his way up? Well they said that the lava and rock formed an artificial "Iris" around the gate, but still the "kawoosh" managed to destroy it. Talk about double standards. I think if a subatomic partical beam could enter the iris the kawoosh should be able to as well. After all, carter said we diassemble at a sub atomic level and are transported as pure energy (which is of course sub atomic) when we gate travel. If the gate supplies energy to do this I think the kawoosh would be made up of subatmoic energy as well. Darn you WRITERS! You can only close the iris after an incoming worm hole is established!the lava bubble wasnt as close to the event horizon as the iris is. it was far enough away that the splash was able to form.

Commander Dan
October 6th, 2005, 08:30 AM
Well thats makes no sense. Remember how O'niell got trapped on that one planet for a LONG LONG time, and they dialed the gate to make the energy surge dig up all the rock so Teal'c could go in and try to dig his way up? Well they said that the lava and rock formed an artificial "Iris" around the gate, but still the "kawoosh" managed to destroy it. Talk about double standards. I think if a subatomic partical beam could enter the iris the kawoosh should be able to as well. After all, carter said we diassemble at a sub atomic level and are transported as pure energy (which is of course sub atomic) when we gate travel. If the gate supplies energy to do this I think the kawoosh would be made up of subatmoic energy as well. Darn you WRITERS! You can only close the iris after an incoming worm hole is established!


Ah…

You are forgetting that Carter first developed a particle beam generator to fire through the gate to dissolve the so-called “artificial iris.” After the particle beam dissolved enough of it, they redialed and the “kawoosh” was able to form and create a larger cavern.

The episode was A Hundred Days.

Kralizec
October 6th, 2005, 10:16 AM
Ah…

You are forgetting that Carter first developed a particle beam generator to fire through the gate to dissolve the so-called “artificial iris.” After the particle beam dissolved enough of it, they redialed and the “kawoosh” was able to form and create a larger cavern.

The episode was A Hundred Days.
The particle beam didn't disolve the "iris", but it did superheat it enough so that when the wormhole was established, it vaporised that small area, just as it was designed to do.

DrSpencerLangford
October 7th, 2005, 10:12 AM
I got served! You are correct. You know, when I was writting that the partical beam from the show stuck in my head, but I guess I ignored that. Sorry! But still, it should kill the iris.

Or maybe instead of an iris we could just turn the gate upside down so the kawoosh goes up? This way if someone/thing tried to enter without a GDO they would fall back into an established inbound wormhole and become galatic toasties.

plaw15
October 7th, 2005, 03:58 PM
What about when we tell people to bury there gate like we told the nox. They couldn't establish a wormhole right?

spg_1983
October 7th, 2005, 08:14 PM
What about when we tell people to bury there gate like we told the nox. They couldn't establish a wormhole right?correct, if the space inside the ring where the event horizon forms is blocked the wormhole will not engage, hence the iris is .3 micrometers away from the event horizon.

walterIsTheMan
October 7th, 2005, 08:27 PM
I've posted this a few times, just posted it again in a thread in the Science/Tech forum and figured id copy it here:):

The "splash" only forms when there is room for matter to reintegrate. There is no room for matter to reintegrate between the iris and the event horizon therefore there is no splash. Once there is room for matter to reintegrate (as seen in "100 Days") then the "splash" will form.

When the gate is buried, usually the inner circle is filled in. When the inner circle is completely filled in, the event horizon cannot form, so there is no wormhole or "splash". The cover stones usually fill in this circle ("Memento"). In rare instances the gate is buried without filling in the middle. In "100 Days", molten rock covered over the active gate, and cooled just above the event horizon, just like an iris. Therefore a wormhole could be established but matter could not reintegrate. The only matter that can reintegrate in such a small amount of space are subatomic particles, which can be used to create holograms or to heat up whatever may be covering the event horizon. In "100 Days" the rock was melted enough to make room for matter to reintegrate by using a particle accelerator. Then the "splash" carved out the rest.

The2ndQuest
October 24th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Just wondering- what do you think would happen if someone walked through from the "back" of a Stargate that already had an outgoing wormhole established?

Along the same lines- what happens if you walk through an icnoming wormhole?

Eoin
October 24th, 2005, 06:43 PM
The person would be killed in both situations
:)

jebus
October 24th, 2005, 09:32 PM
well, in the situation of going through an incoming wormhole has been touchede upon in and A Hundred Days when the MALP goes thru and falls back into the wormhole b/c the gate is on its side. In that case, the MALP was never seen again, in the case of walking through the back end of an outgoing wormhole, you could be killed, or another possibility is thaqt you might just wlk through as if no wormhole were established. I think the real question is why does the event horizon look like a watery mirror instead of looking like a window looking into where ever the gate is connected to (similar to the quantum mirror)

uknesvuinng
October 24th, 2005, 09:57 PM
I guess this question was about due to be asked again. I'll give it my best theory. Mind you, this is a theory and tries for consistency only with science within the Stargate universe.

The event horizon you see is the field responsible for demolecularizing someone. The wormhole itself is best represented for this example as a cylinder. The difference is, the depth of it (the bit between the two 2-dimensional circles) exists in subspace, and thus doesn't "exist" when limited to 3 dimensions of motion. While aproaching it from the correct side of the gate, it "exists", from the other side, it doesn't "exist". The field is still there, as it's seperate from the wormhole and is it's own 3 dimesional object (albeit quite thin), and so it "exists" in it's entirety from either side of the gate. Depending on possible ways the demolecularization field operates, a person could step through safely (it only operates when one enters properly), it will demolecularize the person and pass him in the same direction to in front of the gate, or it will demolecularize and pass the person into the gate anyway.

The2ndQuest
October 24th, 2005, 11:39 PM
>>I guess this question was about due to be asked again.<<

It's one of those, huh? ;;)


It's just an interesting scenario, especially since, from the back, we can see through the event horizon to the other side, but not the other way around.

jebus
October 25th, 2005, 12:21 AM
Well, here are some interesting properties of wormholes in the SG universe:

1. Matter can go only one way
2. Gravitational fields go both ways, with irregular effets"
a. The gravitational field coming through the gate is less than what it is on the other side
b. The time distorion effect of gravity is somehow larger than it normally would be for the gravitational field that comes through
c. The gravitational field will behave as if the gate is the center of mass
3. Radio waves (low frequency EM waves) can go both ways
4. Visible light (mid range frequence EM) does not appear to go both ways.
5. Gamma rays (high frequency EM) does go both ways
6. Light from the front end of the wormhole does make it to the back end of the gate without going through while matter does not
7. The event horizon clearly emits light when active, although not in a very orderly pattern.
8. Matter that goes through an incoming wormhole is never seen again.
9. The event horizon does however prevent air or water from going through on either side.
10. The gate will only send entire objects, not part of objects
11. The gate can only be open for a limited amout of time, however under certian condition, the maximum time can be extended, possibly indefinatly.


Well, in the 2 hours since my last post I think I came up with a theory as to why a radio signal can come through clearly but light can't (well 2 actually, there isn't any evidence supporting one over other) which I will post soon, just want to get these facts up first.

jebus
October 25th, 2005, 10:03 AM
one possible theory for this is that he lower the frequency, the less distorted the EM waves will be, therefore allowing radio signals to come through nearly unchanged, while visible light still comes through but is very distorted (with the same effect on gamma radiation) which would also explain why the event horizon is luminous.

Lt. Col. Mcoy
October 25th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Well, here are some interesting properties of wormholes in the SG universe:

1. Matter can go only one way
2. Gravitational fields go both ways, with irregular effets"
a. The gravitational field coming through the gate is less than what it is on the other side
b. The time distorion effect of gravity is somehow larger than it normally would be for the gravitational field that comes through
c. The gravitational field will behave as if the gate is the center of mass
3. Radio waves (low frequency EM waves) can go both ways
4. Visible light (mid range frequence EM) does not appear to go both ways.
5. Gamma rays (high frequency EM) does go both ways
6. Light from the front end of the wormhole does make it to the back end of the gate without going through while matter does not
7. The event horizon clearly emits light when active, although not in a very orderly pattern.
8. Matter that goes through an incoming wormhole is never seen again.
9. The event horizon does however prevent air or water from going through on either side.
10. The gate will only send entire objects, not part of objects
11. The gate can only be open for a limited amout of time, however under certian condition, the maximum time can be extended, possibly indefinatly.


Well, in the 2 hours since my last post I think I came up with a theory as to why a radio signal can come through clearly but light can't (well 2 actually, there isn't any evidence supporting one over other) which I will post soon, just want to get these facts up first.
Light does come through it, sometimes.

skritsys
October 25th, 2005, 10:59 AM
If it is written by the writers then it must be so.

Deano
December 1st, 2005, 10:47 AM
I dont know if this has been on before but have u ever noticed that the WHOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!! from the stargate will destroy every thing in its way but never seens to damage the Iris

Mark Nguyen
December 1st, 2005, 10:52 AM
Yes. Yes, we have. In fact, in the entirety of SG-1 I think it's come up once or twice... :)

Mark

aAnubiSs
December 1st, 2005, 10:56 AM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

TechnoWraith
December 1st, 2005, 11:02 AM
I dont know if this has been on before but have u ever noticed that the WHOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!! from the stargate will destroy every thing in its way but never seens to damage the Iris

The most widely discussed inconsistency in Gateworld history.

An apparent oversight on the producer's part. Attempts to cover up the inconsistency range from having the iris open until after the Wooosh. Or not closing it until ordered to do so after the wormhole has been engaged.

Deano
December 1st, 2005, 11:29 AM
Ok iv only been on for 2 days calm down

jonno
December 1st, 2005, 11:34 AM
The most widely discussed inconsistency in Gateworld history.


I've been doing some research (man i have too much time on my hands)

Try the following thread titles:
1. Why on an incoming wormhole the "splash" doesn't destroy the iris.
2. Why isn't the iris destroyed by the energy vortex?
3. Why doesn't the Kawoosh destroy the iris?
4. How? Questions about wormholes and gate travel.
5. Misc. tech questions.
6. Iris and the unstable wormhole.
7. Iris ... man it's tough.
8. Why doesn't the iris disintegrate.
9. The Wormhole.

+ other threads where it wasn't the original question in the thread, but was asked:
e.g. That darn iris on the gate (where yes, it was me who asked the question).

All of the above were found by typing: "Kawoosh Iris" into the SEARCH ;) function.

Please, don't ask some of these other favourites:
"What's the 9th Chevron for"
"How did Apophis get back through the gate in the pilot"
"Who are the Furlings"
etc.

newtrekker
December 1st, 2005, 04:32 PM
I dont know if this has been on before but have u ever noticed that the WHOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!! from the stargate will destroy every thing in its way but never seens to damage the Iris

I think it's because the iris is so close to the event horizon that the energy vortex or whooooosh wouldn't be allowed to be created.

Zekk
December 1st, 2005, 04:57 PM
I think what newtrekker said he/she thinks! :)

helio9
December 1st, 2005, 08:45 PM
It's an anomaly caused by the aliens from "grace". We need a thread to talk about that.

walterIsTheMan
December 2nd, 2005, 06:25 AM
Yes this has been discussed many times:p. But for the record, there is no canon inconsistency. Pehaps TPTB did screw up, but lucky for them it fits in with the story and in the Stargate universe there's no inconsistency.

Here is the link to my previous explanation of why the iris is not destroyed by the splash:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=18544&page=2&highlight=splash
:)

kozarman
December 2nd, 2005, 12:56 PM
I've always wondered why sometimes when they open the gate why when the iris is already closed before it(the gate) is opened and doesn't get destroyed by the "great wave"!! I don't know if it's just me or not but I have always wondered if anyone else has a theory about this or not!?

Deano
December 2nd, 2005, 02:45 PM
Aparently this is an inconsistonce, it dosent make sense. I just started on this site the other day and i asked the same question, people on this site are getting board of answering that one apparently.

Zekk
December 2nd, 2005, 02:48 PM
What Deano said prety much coverd it! :)

mmmmm_wormhole_physics_tasty
December 2nd, 2005, 02:52 PM
The DVD's refer to the 'Great Wave' as a 'Kawoosh' and methinks it is because the iris is placed only micrometers from the event horison, meaning that nothing can properly materialise, so the unstable wormhole would not technically be able to fully form. well at least thats how i see it anywho, hope i was helpful :rolleyes:

Deano
December 2nd, 2005, 02:57 PM
What Deano said prety much coverd it! :)

see i told you i know what im saying.
Plus Zekk im haveing no luck with gatewars can you help me.:S

the Fifth Race
December 2nd, 2005, 02:58 PM
I think it was discussed during an episode where Carter explained that the placing of the Iris is designed close enough to where the swoosh forms that the gate will still open but the Iris won't be destroyed. Aontherwords they used mathmatics to place the Iris so the gate can be opened or closed with the Iris engaged.

BigGator5
December 2nd, 2005, 02:59 PM
The DVD's refer to the 'Great Wave' as a 'Kawoosh' and methinks it is because the iris is placed only micrometers from the event horison, meaning that nothing can properly materialise, so the unstable wormhole would not technically be able to fully form. well at least thats how i see it anywho, hope i was helpful :rolleyes:

I had heard that too and I have excepted the explanation.

mmmmm_wormhole_physics_tasty
December 2nd, 2005, 03:04 PM
Thanks BigGator5, that means a bunch too me n_n

mmmmm_wormhole_physics_tasty
December 2nd, 2005, 03:06 PM
Pleeeeaaaassseeee, 11 years, 11, thats how long i have wondered, what happens if you enter the gate from the reverse side of the 'Kawoosh'?:eek:

Deano
December 2nd, 2005, 03:26 PM
Iv always wanted to know that to.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 2nd, 2005, 03:29 PM
what happens is you explode when you go into the wrong way, just kidding.

mazzmatazz
December 2nd, 2005, 03:35 PM
There's already a thread on this.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=4300440

The Signal
December 2nd, 2005, 03:36 PM
Now I know there has been a topic like this before... Calling all n00bs , use the serch function, its not decoration you know!

I think you would disintergrate if you entered it fully,just as normal, but you matter would not go anywhere, effectivly killing you

EDIT: I have seen another one too, not the one mazz just posted but a much longer one, seriously, the search, there for a reason :mad:

Wraith_Hunter
December 2nd, 2005, 05:08 PM
Very simple, They Die!!!!!

jonno
December 2nd, 2005, 05:42 PM
Aparently this is an inconsistonce, it dosent make sense. I just started on this site the other day and i asked the same question, people on this site are getting board of answering that one apparently.

Yes, we're sorry if we seem a little short at times, its just some questions appear so often, there can be over 10 threads on the same subject - heck, this question has turned up twice in two days!

Oh and hello and welcome (both you and Deano), hope you enjoy it here.

newtrekker
December 2nd, 2005, 07:11 PM
The technical term for the kawoosh is energy vortex. I've said what happens on another thread saying the same thing so I'm just going to copy and paste what I said.

I think it's because the iris is so close to the event horizon that the energy vortex or whooooosh wouldn't be allowed to be created.

Deano
December 3rd, 2005, 07:16 AM
Wouldn't you just come out on the reverse side of the other gate.

Hulabaloo
December 3rd, 2005, 07:20 AM
My guess is die. Hmm that was easy.

captain_kirk999
December 3rd, 2005, 07:41 AM
Same thing that happens when you walk through an incoming wormhole?

captain_kirk999
December 3rd, 2005, 07:50 AM
mmmmm_wormhole_physics_tasty is correct, it's all explained in a very early season one episode by Carter

Three PhDs
December 3rd, 2005, 08:51 AM
I had a simple analogy, being that a jet of steam does nothing to steel, but melts butter. It needn't be an inconsistency at all.

Whatazarian
December 3rd, 2005, 03:30 PM
I have a real thought about it, the event horizon has two sides, one which is the normal entrance way is a stable event horizon which gives you access to two different points in time space almost immediately and the back side. A wormhole is theoretically a Einstein-Rosen bridge, which is a mixture of two black holes (sort of..).The Ancients would have to compensate for the instability of a black hole on the normal event horizon side, so that when you go in or even turn it on, it doesn't run hell on your world, but this would require a great amount of energy, so in terms of efficiency, I think they would only fully stabilise the side of the wormhole where you enter the event horizon normally, and only make sure the reverse side does not suck everything in. From this argument that I have formed, (not a very good one but worth a try) entering the other side of the wormhole would probably kill you because it is not fully stable.

Mio
December 3rd, 2005, 04:28 PM
What we see isn't actually the event horizon of a wormhole. The puddle effect, or stargate event horizon is something artificially created to facilitate the transfer of matter into an energy pattern for temporary storage in the gate's memory. That energy pattern is then transmitted. But the point is that what we see isn't actually a wormhole.

Great episodes that tell us these things. Let's see..

48 Hours is always good.
38 Minutes.
Duet

Maybe a little in Prototype. I can't be sure without rewatching it.

Eoin
December 3rd, 2005, 04:52 PM
Everyone knows that when you step through the other side of the stargate you turn into a furling or a donkey :P

Deano
December 3rd, 2005, 05:03 PM
Everyone knows that when you step through the other side of the stargate you turn into a furling or a donkey :P

So thats where furlings come from...............hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Gives you somthing to think about.:rolleyes:

Ryuu
December 6th, 2005, 03:16 AM
What about episode A Hundred Days? According to Carter the surface of the gate melted after being hit by a meteorite and formed something like an iris. Yet they were still able to penetrate it with the energy vortex.

I'd go with inconsistency... not the first one... not the last one...

Avatar28
December 6th, 2005, 03:30 AM
Right. They used a particle beam firing through the gate (like Sokar did trying to get to Apophis) to heat the naquada on the other end that was acting as an iris. As it got hot it melted somewhat and moved from the position it needed to be in for the splash (sorry, that's the term I learned for it first and it's sorta stuck with me, just feels right) to not be able to form. Once they had done that they dialed right back and this time the splash was able to appear and vaporized the "iris" and carve out the cavity that Teal'c was able to get into to drill his way out.

jazz!
December 7th, 2005, 02:19 AM
is there anything on the gate that says "USE THIS WAY ONLY!" -> i mean how did they know which way to use it?;

or did they have to test which side of the gate instantaeously transported ppl to other planets and which side killed them ( thats if it killed them )?

Avatar28
December 7th, 2005, 03:17 AM
My guess is that the ancients would have considered the possibility of it happening and take steps to prevent it. My guess, nothing would happen except you emerge to be standing in front of the gate.

Mio
December 7th, 2005, 03:55 AM
is there anything on the gate that says "USE THIS WAY ONLY!" -> i mean how did they know which way to use it?;

or did they have to test which side of the gate instantaeously transported ppl to other planets and which side killed them ( thats if it killed them )?

The back of the gate looks very different from the front. You can't see the spinning ring, and the chevrons don't light up.

jazz!
December 7th, 2005, 05:45 AM
The back of the gate looks very different from the front. You can't see the spinning ring, and the chevrons don't light up.


oh! duh! very obvious!

well its lucky they went for the spinning rings!

is there a picture of the back of the gate! ??

_Owen_
December 7th, 2005, 01:21 PM
It is true this matter has been raised before, but there is no need to get angry, it is an interesting disscussion and a moderator can always merge the threads.

Anyways, back the the subject.

There are in fact a number of things that will happen.

1. This is the most unlikely thing (out of all things within reason, obviously the universe is not going to blow up). You die. This is the most unlikely because, yes originally the Ancients created the gate network for themselves, but they were smart enough to realise that some people might not know what it is try to go through and die because they are going through the wrong side.

2. Second most unlikely, you simply pass through the other side. This is also pretty unlikely because if anyone were to try to come through the right side your matter, passing through the event horizon would act like an iris and the person coming through would at least loose a big chunk out of them.

3. Also unlikely, you go through to the other gate but come out the back end, if it is an incoming wormhole you die. This one is also unlikely because the gates were only really meant to work one way, throuh one side.

4. The most likely. The reverse side of the event horizon is solid, or protected by a forcefield or dampening field of some sort. That way if you try to go through it stops you.

To tell you the truth we would really have to try it to get a certain answer but I would have to go with number four it is the most likely.

RA the sun god
December 9th, 2005, 05:18 PM
wait hasnt this already been explained many a time???:D

RA the sun god
December 10th, 2005, 07:54 AM
hmmm...i think that u would come out the other side and no your body wuldnt act like a iris if this did happen the gate would store the matter in its buffer and wait until u were all the way thruogh...well thats what i think...

RA the sun god
December 10th, 2005, 09:44 PM
the thing about the iris beaing too close is right...

/\NUBIS
January 14th, 2006, 05:15 AM
Since ever, I've been wondering about one thing in Stargate Sg-1:
If the blast of the wormhole vaporises everything, why doesn't it affect the Iris? Very often the Iris is closed before a wormhole is opened, so the blast has to touch the Iris...
Has anybody an explanation?

Dr. Elisabeth Weir
January 14th, 2006, 05:47 AM
Hey you should post it in the other section. Not in here. This section is for help and questions about the forum. You should put this thread in the science section ;) Where in Belgium are you from? Vlaanderen or Walloni&#235;?

And the answer is that the iris is placed that way that whatever comes through the gate won't rematerialize in its original components. Humans, beasts, energy,... and the gate is made out of trinium so that is quitte though to penetrate.

Dutch_Razor
January 14th, 2006, 06:43 AM
It's not the material, it might as well have been paper.

The iris is a few microns away from the event horizion, so that nothing can rematerialisze.

They built the Iris of Trinium to counter stuff like particle enchanchers (Heru-Ur), immense gravity (blackhole) and stuff.

So not even the kawoosh can form :) (as said above)

jonno
January 14th, 2006, 06:57 AM
Hello, and welcome to the forum! Hope you enjoy it here.

It is to do with it being so close to the event horizon

Sadly, to quote another forum user, this is:



Originally Posted by TechnoWraith
The most widely discussed inconsistency in Gateworld history.

and, as such, there are so many threads on this same subject:

Try the following thread titles:
1. Why on an incoming wormhole the "splash" doesn't destroy the iris.
2. Why isn't the iris destroyed by the energy vortex?
3. Why doesn't the Kawoosh destroy the iris?
4. How? Questions about wormholes and gate travel.
5. Misc. tech questions.
6. Iris and the unstable wormhole.
7. Iris ... man it's tough.
8. Why doesn't the iris disintegrate.
9. The Wormhole.

All of the above were found by typing: "Kawoosh Iris" into the SEARCH function.

There are some other favourites which are often asked:
"What's the 9th Chevron for"
"How did Apophis get back through the gate in the pilot"
"Who are the Furlings"

When this sort of regular question is asked, some of the forum members tend to get a bit testy, so don't worry if in this thread you get some slightly nasty comments.

Here's a useful post, with links, that helps to explain some of the bits and pieces about Gateworld:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=20452
Particularly note: 'Forum Rules'

/\NUBIS
January 14th, 2006, 08:15 AM
Thank for your answers...
Sorry, I'm new... I have seen that I had put my question in the wrong section, but only after I had already posted it!!:o Sorry again!
I'm from the French speaking region of Belgium (Wallonie) and I study in Brussels. ;)

HirogenGater
January 14th, 2006, 07:00 PM
So not even the kawoosh can form :) (as said above)

Don't you still hear the sound f/x of the kawoosh with the iris closed? I'll have to go back and watch an episode where this happens.

newtrekker
January 14th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Don't you still hear the sound f/x of the kawoosh with the iris closed? I'll have to go back and watch an episode where this happens.

Yes you can still hear the sound f/x of the kawoosh.

newtrekker
January 18th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Thanks to whoever made this a sticky!!!! I was going to ask moderators the next time a thread with the same thing came up.

VirtualCLD
January 20th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I don't think this is the most inconsistent cannon in the show. I think what bothered me the most in many of the early episodes is when the SGC received a GDO signal (either from SG-1 or someone else) and the Stargate was still in the process of being dialed from offworld and/or the wormhole wasn't even established yet.

The other thing that bothers me is how sometimes an off world activation is slow, sometimes it's instantaneous, and one time the inner track was moving while it was being dialed in from offworld (when in most cases it doesn't for an incoming wormhole).

However, hasn't the iris/kawoosh debate been explained several times?

Simply put, as many people said, the iris is too close to the Event Horizon (EH) to allow the destructive particles of the vortex to form. As a result there is no "splash" or "kawoosh." Simple as that. Now, in 100 Days, the Stargate was buried in molten rock laced with naquada WHILE the wormhole was still active. As a result, the rock cooled down and the gate shut down, leaving a thin space where the EH was. This was different than simply burying the gate, b/c a buried gate has matter in the way of the EH, preventing the EH from forming at all. This is why you can't get a lock on a buried gate.

Back to 100 Days, the thin space allowed for the formation of the EH so the SGC could still dial to it (just like the SGC has the iris close to the EH, but you can still dial it because the iris isn't IN the EH (see 48 Hours) ), but nothing could get through because the was no room for the destructive particles to form, nor any room for matter to re-integrate. So they took a page out of Sokar's Stargate Assault Manual and they fired a particle accelerator into the gate, melting the naquada laced rock on the other side. As the rock melted, it fell back into the EH, never to return (it was an incoming wormhole on the other planet).

Once enough rock had melted away and was disintegrated after falling into the EH, there was enough room for the destructive particles of the vortex to form. This vortex then disintegrated the remaining rock within its radius and allowed enough space to send something through.

jonno
January 20th, 2006, 06:18 PM
However, hasn't the iris/kawoosh debate been explained several times?

Simply put, as many people said, the iris is too close to the Event Horizon (EH) to allow the destructive particles of the vortex to form. As a result there is no "splash" or "kawoosh." Simple as that. Now, in 100 Days, the Stargate was buried in molten rock laced with naquada WHILE the wormhole was still active. As a result, the rock cooled down and the gate shut down, leaving a thin space where the EH was. This was different than simply burying the gate, b/c a buried gate has matter in the way of the EH, preventing the EH from forming at all. This is why you can't get a lock on a buried gate.

Back to 100 Days, the thin space allowed for the formation of the EH so the SGC could still dial to it (just like the SGC has the iris close to the EH, but you can still dial it because the iris isn't IN the EH (see 48 Hours) ), but nothing could get through because the was no room for the destructive particles to form, nor any room for matter to re-integrate. So they took a page out of Sokar's Stargate Assault Manual and they fired a particle accelerator into the gate, melting the naquada laced rock on the other side. As the rock melted, it fell back into the EH, never to return (it was an incoming wormhole on the other planet).

Once enough rock had melted away and was disintegrated after falling into the EH, there was enough room for the destructive particles of the vortex to form. This vortex then disintegrated the remaining rock within its radius and allowed enough space to send something through.

Yes, it has. Part of the idea of this thread was to merge all the various old threads, and sticky it so as to reduce the number of times people start a thread about the same subject - it makes it easier to find.
-This isn't a new thread. It's an amalgamation of all the old ones.

Your explanation in my opinion is the correct one, and fits in with show canon

Seastallion
January 21st, 2006, 03:09 AM
Just thought this explanation of mine earlier deserved a second go around. It helped a lot of folks before, so perhaps it can be of assistance again. ;)


That is part of it yes. :) In addition to the previous post, let me add that the Event Horizon of the wormhole is itself not dangerous. Unless you try to enter the horizon from an incoming wormhole... that would be suicide because you'd have nowhere to reintegrate to. The danger comes from the inherent unstable nature of the vortex. The wormhole cannot transmit matter until the Event Horizon is firmly established, thus anything that is caught in it is immediately de-molecularized. Since there is no way for the object to reintergrate (just as the example above of an incoming wormhole), it is simply destroyed.

The Event Horizon is not that different from the soapy flat-bubble on a bubble blowing stick. The Event Horizon forms along the inner edge of the stargate as an 'anchor' of sorts. Normally, when it forms the gate is free and clear which allows the vortex to form (though the vortex isn't absolutely necessary). However, whenever the gate is completely blocked (as in buried) the wormhole will not connect. On the other hand, If the gate is covered close enough to where the Event Horizon forms, the vortex doesn't have a chance to form, so instead the Event Horizon simply 'washes' up over the covering to the inner rim of the gate.

As an example... imagine if I took a bubble blowing stick and held it facing downward to the ground and poured a soapy solution over it. The solution would partially drip through (like the vortex) the ring part of the bubble stick, but some of it would catch to form a soapy flat-bubble within the ring (like the Event Horizon) of the stick. On the other hand, if I took something flat, and covered the opening of the ring, none of the solution would drip through, but instead would immediately spread across the flat surface of the covering until it reached the inner rim of the bubble stick. I admit, this is a rather crude example, but it fits well enough. ;)

AKnightWhoSaysNi
January 21st, 2006, 11:48 AM
you gotta love how it took all of a month or so for the U.S airforce to figure out "if you dont want someone to barge in, build a door!" while the gould cant seem to figure out this concept 100% yet...

Seastallion
January 21st, 2006, 12:10 PM
you gotta love how it took all of a month or so for the U.S airforce to figure out "if you dont want someone to barge in, build a door!" while the gould cant seem to figure out this concept 100% yet...

Actually, it didn't even take that long for the Air Force to figure it out. It took only one unwanted incursion (by Apophis) to compel them to do it. It was done within only a few days of the incident.

The Goa'uld eventually did start putting shields around their gates to prevent people from coming to the bases unwanted. Apophis eventually used one, that Sokar deafeted. Later Anubis started using one at his Kull warrior production facility.

The Goa'uld have been using energy shields, which are great as long as you have power. The SGC uses a Trinium/Titanium composite Iris that does not need a power source, and in the event of a power failure to the automated Iris control, it can be manually closed to prevent attacks through the gate.

AKnightWhoSaysNi
January 26th, 2006, 07:37 AM
"manual controll" simply involves someone pressing a button in the gateroom wall as opposed to in the controll room. Im guessing that a self contained battery / motor is activated by that button because without power that button is going to work just as great as the one upstairs. Its not like some seargants run out from the doors with sticks and crank the iris down.

Pasankoon
January 31st, 2006, 01:06 AM
My Understanding of Stargate Wormhole Physics is that energy particles (ie photons, gravitons and the other energies of weak and strong forces of nature) can travel both ways through a wormhole tunnel passing freely in and out of the event horizon but matter particles cannot embark on such a journey. For this reason all stargate event horisons are designed to dis-intergrate entering matter into energy signal form and transfer it directly to the buffer re-intergrate energy signals transferred to it from the buffer into matter form whilst leaving raw energy traversing back and forth through the horison untouched. The horison is also designed by the ancients to be 'smart' by utilising complex motion laws to determine what matter is actually trying to enter the event horizon as carter explained in 'watergate'.

All Buffer configerations alow it store energy signals recieved from the event horizon and transfer stored energy signals into the event horison. However the buffer configeration of an outgoing wormhole is designed to transmit energy signals that the gates computer systems recognise as complete whilst the buffer configeration of an incoming wormhole is designed to recieve energy signals recognised as matter energy signals and not touch them untill the gates computer system recognise them as complete. Matter cannot travel back through a wormole simply becaause the buffer is not designed to carry both these functions at the same time.

My understanding of how the iris works is that the stargate requires a constant amount of time to reitergrate energy signals into matter form (as carter explained in the pilot). Wormhole theory also dictates that anything entering a wormhole should exit at the exact same velocity. Therefore it must be the velocity of entering objects that determines the distance required for reintergration because distance=velocity x time. If this distance is in anyway obstructed the stargate is unable to reintergrate the matter. For matter particles entering at extremely high velocities such as from a particle acelerator the small distance between the horizon and the iris is sufficient to reitegration to take place because increasing velocity means decreasing distance. The reintegration distance is not obstructed so reitegration of high velocity matter particles take place.

However the iris should not be able to stop an unstable vortex from forming. The unstable vortex is not only a part in the process of establishing a connection but it is also there for a reason as carter explained in 48 hours. The unstable vortex is used as a safety mechanism to wipe the buffer clean whenever a new connection is made to prevent any messups caused by the left over incoming energy signatures interfering with new outgoing energy signals and vise versa. She stated the only way to help teal'k was to establish a wormhole without engaging an unstable vortex that wipes the buffer clean as she had seen it done before by Asguard and Nox stargate activation devices (wich possibly utilise other means to wipe the buffer for safety). If an iris could stop an unstable vortex froming she would have merely closed it and engaged a wormhole as well as the fact that every time the wormhole is engaged whith the Iris closed they are taking a risk based on their previous gate usage. The vortex is also an energy burst which is a part of the establishment process and is not composed of matter particles which require some sort of intergration so the reason the iris does not disintergrate once wormholes are established remains a mystery despite the fact that it was verbally stated by Carter (100 days)

The Boz
February 1st, 2006, 05:05 AM
I remember you pasankoon. You have a lot of time on your hands man. GET A JOB

Avatar28
February 2nd, 2006, 12:33 AM
My post copied from another thread.



And the splash, when the wormhole forms, is the unstable part of the wormhole, stablising out.


I'm not so sure. Considering that the splash doesn't occur when some of the other races have used their hand controllers to activate the gate, I think it maybe more likely that the splash is a safety measure, basically there to clear out the area immediately in front of the gate. This would be especially important on the receiving end to make sure there's nothing in front of the gate that the person is going to reintegrate into. I think it works something like this.

The wormhole is established between the two gates. The wormhole itself is microscopic and can't be seen. That's why matter being sent through the gate is converted to energy and transmitted through. To create a wormhole capable of transmitting actual matter would take immense amounts of power and a huge wormhole (say something like the Ori supergate). Okay, so the wormhole connection is established. Each gate then activates the "event horizon" which is actually some sort of field that is responsible for scanning/breaking down matter in the case of the sending end and which reconstructs the matter on the receiving end. It has nothing to do with the wormhole at all. You can see this field forming, it's the foamy thing you see right before the splash and as the wormhole disappears. As the field is formed, the stargate generates the splash which blasts out and clears the area in front of the gate at both ends and also serves to wipe the buffer in the gate as well. The splash doesn't actually come from the wormhole but rather is generated just in front of it. This is why the iris isn't destroyed, it's position just in front of the scanning field puts it exactly where the splash forms and prevents it from occuring.

So, in summary:

Wormhole is established between the two gates.
Deconstruction/Reconstruction fields are activated.
Splash is generated just in front of the fields at both ends to wipe the memory crystals and clear the areas in front of the gate from any debris or other objects.
Object enters the wormhole, is scanned and converted into energy which is sent through the wormhole. The gate at the other end receives it and reconstructs the object.


Basically, it's EXACTLY like the ring transporters except that instead of being sent through space the energy (which you see travelling between rings) is sent through the wormhole to the other end. This also explains why the rings worked through the wormhole in Beachhead.

Pasankoon
February 2nd, 2006, 04:41 AM
That is basically what I said as well except I used the term 'Event Horizon' to describe the energy field you spoke of. I also agree that this energy feild has got nothing to do with the wormhole itself it is just a field connected to the buffer in order to transport matter. However in the case of the vortex I dont agree that it is formed just in front of the event-horizon/energy-field. I believe it is a part of the visible energy field it self wich in turn is directly connected to the buffer. I come to this conclusion because according to Carter the vortex is a safety mechanism designed to wipe the buffer and not nessesaraly what is in front of it (although it could be secondary puropose of the vortex I never thought of that before). In order for this to occur the vortex must be directly connected to the buffer and therefore must be a part of this energy-field/event-horizon. Another reason why this cannot be the case is that the vortex is still formed despite the fact that the Iris is closed. As stated in '48 hours' Carter could not work out a way to open the wormhole without generating a vortex to prevent Teal'c's energy signiture from being wiped. If this was the case she would have merely engage the gate with the Iris closed and open the Iris just like they would do to any autherised incomming traveller to let Teal'c through. Hence I am still unable to comprehend why the Iris doesn't disintergrate when wormhole is activated.

skeezix
February 2nd, 2006, 01:29 PM
My roommate has a different question. How/why does the gate decide how long to stay active when a team dials out? Is it timed? Does there have to be a physical presence near the gate? Sometimes the wormhole closes exactly after the last member comes flying through, but other times it doesn't close until they start walking away a little bit. He also seems to remember the wormhole closing on the sending end right after the last member goes through on some missions. I know its probably just done for convenience and dramatic effect but is there an explanation behind it? Its not something you really notice when watching, but after awhile my roommates and I have started wondering about it.

I've watched a lot of episodes on TV but only started watching the DVDs one by one in October. Currently my roommates and I are on Season 4 with the last episode we watched being "The Curse" so if this is explained in further episodes sorry. I think we have actually worked this out before, but we've gone back and forth so much now we are all confused.

Pasankoon
February 4th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Basically in order to keep a Wormole open there has to be some form of energy travelling between the two gates in either direction. This could either be raw energy or energy signals sent by buffer transmitters. The gate is designed to automatically shut down the moment it detects that it is not being used. In most cases the SGC sends a radio signal through the gate to keep it open to allow its teams time to go out or come in and close it by stopping the signal. The gate will close at varing degrees in time depending on when this signal is shut off.

Avatar28
February 4th, 2006, 01:37 AM
That is basically what I said as well except I used the term 'Event Horizon' to describe the energy field you spoke of. I also agree that this energy feild has got nothing to do with the wormhole itself it is just a field connected to the buffer in order to transport matter. However in the case of the vortex I dont agree that it is formed just in front of the event-horizon/energy-field. I believe it is a part of the visible energy field it self wich in turn is directly connected to the buffer. I come to this conclusion because according to Carter the vortex is a safety mechanism designed to wipe the buffer and not nessesaraly what is in front of it (although it could be secondary puropose of the vortex I never thought of that before). In order for this to occur the vortex must be directly connected to the buffer and therefore must be a part of this energy-field/event-horizon. Another reason why this cannot be the case is that the vortex is still formed despite the fact that the Iris is closed. As stated in '48 hours' Carter could not work out a way to open the wormhole without generating a vortex to prevent Teal'c's energy signiture from being wiped. If this was the case she would have merely engage the gate with the Iris closed and open the Iris just like they would do to any autherised incomming traveller to let Teal'c through. Hence I am still unable to comprehend why the Iris doesn't disintergrate when wormhole is activated.

Yes, the two are obviously related in some way but not necessarily part of the same thing. I'm sure the splash isn't necessary to wipe the crystals, I'm quite sure the ancients could find a way to do that without something that big (or dangerous). My guess, they're probably called from the same subroutine and are an inherent part of the dialing process (e.g. there's no way to dial the gate normally without going through that process. Obviously the hand dialers work around this somehow).

awa64
February 4th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Just read through this whole thread, and I've got a weird theory that could explain a ton of stuff for it.

The "vortex" is a similar form of matter/energy to light, and thus has "Wave/Particle Duality." Science experiments in the past have shown that light will act as either a wave, a particle, or both, depending on circumstances. (It's some freaky crap. I'm probably not qualified to explain it fully.)

Anyway, if the vortex behaves similarly, then it's possible that when the gate is unblocked by a form of iris, the "kawhoosh" is a dissapation of the energy expended by the creation of the event horizon. If something is in the path, the "kawhoosh" goes around it, but the proximity to the large amounts of destructive energy typically demolecularizes it. However, despite this destruction, they coexist for a moment.

If there is not enough empty volume in front of the Stargate for the "kawhoosh" to displace into, such as an iris, the energy vortex takes a different form, instead dissipating the energy through the Stargate itself. However, the event horizion does still generate, allowing radio contact despite the physical blockage of the area. Anyone physically trying to go through, though... well, if there physically isn't enough space, they get dissipated into the Gate as energy as well. Ow, huh?

I'm still trying to come up with a reason to explain why you'd even have the Kawhoosh in the first place, if this is true. Could be power costs--it takes more power on this end to generate the wormhole in the first place if the iris covers the Stargate. It could be a durability issue--Stargates that have this done on a regular basis are more likely to malfunction, and can theoretically develop an energy buildup that would backfire into and destroy its DHD. (This would explain why the DHD fried in the episode where they had to free Teal'c from the "gate memory," too.)

So, whaddya think? Am I crazy, or does this make a tiny bit of sense?

Pasankoon
February 4th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Yes, the two are obviously related in some way but not necessarily part of the same thing. I'm sure the splash isn't necessary to wipe the crystals, I'm quite sure the ancients could find a way to do that without something that big (or dangerous). My guess, they're probably called from the same subroutine and are an inherent part of the dialing process (e.g. there's no way to dial the gate normally without going through that process. Obviously the hand dialers work around this somehow).

Indeed. Most hand dialers such as the ones used by the Nox, the Asgard and the Ancients (Cassandra's hand device looked Ancient in design) would utilise some other means of wiping the buffer such as by directly tapping into the gates computer systems and wiping the memory banks resulting in nor need for the vortex to be formed. Perhaps the Ancients for some reason deemed it unnsessesary to include such devices in the standard gate networks DHD's. Most likely because so that planets that for some reason or the other had lost there DHD such as Earth a vortex concept is already built into the Gate itself to wipe its buffer every time it is engaged as a safety measure.

In '48 Hours' Carter was trying to figure out a way to open the gate without creating a vortex such as how she has seen the Nox and the Asgard do but without wiping the buffer by other means either in order to save Teal'c's energy signiture. This combined with the logical assumtion that the vortex must be directly connected to the event-horizon/energy-field in order to wipe the buffer which is connected to it means that Iris or no Iris the vortex is still formed. Therefore why the Iris is not disintergrated still remains a mystery to me.

The only other explenation i can think of is that the unstable vortex is infact formed several microns infront of the Horizon and is in some way still connected to the same buffer that the event-horizon/energy-field is connected to in order to wipe it. This is certainly possible since obviously an energy buffer as powerful as the one in the stargate would have to be more than a few microns thick not mention possibly connected to it by a middleman superconductor. However if this is the case and the Iris truely prevents the vortex from forming the SGC will be endangering the lives of countless personel alowing their energy signitures to interfere with possible energy signatures of opposite buffer-status. Another inadequecy of this theory is that if Carter's goal in '48-hours' was to establish a wormhole without a vortex then she would have simply closed the Iris engaged the wormhole and opened it to allow Teal'c's un-wiped energy signiture to reintergrate back into matter form through the event-horizon/energy-field. Given what we know of Carter she is too smart to not see such an obvious solution.

Avatar28
February 7th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Indeed. Most hand dialers such as the ones used by the Nox, the Asgard and the Ancients (Cassandra's hand device looked Ancient in design) would utilise some other means of wiping the buffer such as by directly tapping into the gates computer systems and wiping the memory banks resulting in nor need for the vortex to be formed. Perhaps the Ancients for some reason deemed it unnsessesary to include such devices in the standard gate networks DHD's. Most likely because so that planets that for some reason or the other had lost there DHD such as Earth a vortex concept is already built into the Gate itself to wipe its buffer every time it is engaged as a safety measure.

Except that I don't think the vortex has anything directly to do with wiping the buffer, I think it's just part of the same set of safety protocols that are bound up together.


In '48 Hours' Carter was trying to figure out a way to open the gate without creating a vortex such as how she has seen the Nox and the Asgard do but without wiping the buffer by other means either in order to save Teal'c's energy signiture. This combined with the logical assumtion that the vortex must be directly connected to the event-horizon/energy-field in order to wipe the buffer which is connected to it means that Iris or no Iris the vortex is still formed. Therefore why the Iris is not disintergrated still remains a mystery to me.

The only other explenation i can think of is that the unstable vortex is infact formed several microns infront of the Horizon and is in some way still connected to the same buffer that the event-horizon/energy-field is connected to in order to wipe it. This is certainly possible since obviously an energy buffer as powerful as the one in the stargate would have to be more than a few microns thick not mention possibly connected to it by a middleman superconductor.

Not if the vortex is formed exactly where the iris is located. In that case, the vortex can't form because the iris is in the way, but that doesn't interfere with wormhole establishment. Then it makes perfect sense why the iris isn't destroyed.



However if this is the case and the Iris truely prevents the vortex from forming the SGC will be endangering the lives of countless personel alowing their energy signitures to interfere with possible energy signatures of opposite buffer-status. Another inadequecy of this theory is that if Carter's goal in '48-hours' was to establish a wormhole without a vortex then she would have simply closed the Iris engaged the wormhole and opened it to allow Teal'c's un-wiped energy signiture to reintergrate back into matter form through the event-horizon/energy-field. Given what we know of Carter she is too smart to not see such an obvious solution.

Not if the vortex is not, itself, directly responsible for wiping the buffer. If it only occurs simultaneously with the electronic wiping then it would appear that the vortex may be responsible for it when you watch it, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily would be the case. Casualty does not indicate cause.

Obviously without a DHD we have to use the internal programming of the gate and there's probably no way for us to bypass those protocols, or at least we can't do it with our dialing computer.

Pasankoon
February 7th, 2006, 09:09 PM
But the vortex isthe direct cause of the wiping of the buffer in normal gate protocol as clearly explained by sam in '48 hours'

Xavier (Matt Verdouw)
February 23rd, 2006, 04:42 AM
my theory is that matter DOES come though on the other side, but when it hits the iris/sheild it knocks the matter back though the event horizion, and because we dont have a two-way wormhole, it would just disintergrate like that.

this theory however it party ruled out becuase, surely the "woosh" would disintergrater the iris

just something to think about

Daryl Froggy
February 27th, 2006, 10:15 AM
According to quantum physics, any effect caused by the creation of a wormhole (including an unstable mass) would occur at the subatomic level, and thus (like Sokar's particle beam) begin the process of disintegration within those first few micrometers.

But didn't Sam say that the iris was less than two NANOmeters from the event horizon?:mckay:

Avatar28
February 28th, 2006, 02:20 AM
No, I'm pretty sure is was micrometers. That's what the omnipedia says too.

chriswin8
March 1st, 2006, 08:25 AM
Ok say you opened all gates at once Like they did to wipe out the Replicaters. You are basicly have 1 gate call all the rest in the Network.

Ok the question:
So if a human stepped through wouldn't then that person arive at all the planets in the Network Via the Gate? Becasue wouldn't the Data stream be sent to all the gates?

Forgive me i didnt have alot of time to post this. So i didnt take the time to Search.

sgafansam
March 1st, 2006, 09:06 AM
i believe they "jumped the shark" with that one.

I think the body of the unforetunate traveler would be split one piece to each gate...but thats my opinion

The Signal
March 1st, 2006, 10:24 AM
Depends on how it works, it might be that every gate dials every address, so every gate has an incoming wormhole, meaning that the poor person would be dissintergrated without reintergration. OR they may be copied to all gates, OR the ripped apart thing. We just dont know enough about how it works to know what would happen.

ItsDan
March 1st, 2006, 10:38 AM
The Stargate wouldn't allow it. The Ancients were all smart and stuff and would have programmed the gate to behave 'conservatively'. It may not have let anything through, like in Watergate.

Bragi
March 1st, 2006, 11:18 AM
Nearest Gate in the system?

If I'm a writer, that's what I'm saying.

chriswin8
March 1st, 2006, 11:46 AM
The Stargate wouldn't allow it. The Ancients were all smart and stuff and would have programmed the gate to behave 'conservatively'. It may not have let anything through, like in Watergate.

I will have to go back and watch the episode to be sure but the Episode watergate was and outgoing wormhole. The "Water" would have ben going in the out.

you know what i mean.

Besides didnt Makay say in 38 mins (PJ stuck in Gate) That the intagration prossess will not take affect untill it has all the data. In other words if the Watergate was an incomming it would never intagrate the water becasue the water would never stop entering the Wormhole, at least till the Lake, ocean or what ever was empty. Could you emagin the other out part of the wormhole when all the water was in the gate buffer. The Facility would be under water, in an instant

Well my opinnion would be that the data stream would go to all the gates there for making full copies of you on all the Gate baring worlds.

That would be one hell of a messed up episode. LOL

Please let me know if i have any holes in the idea or my memory for that fact.

newtrekker
March 1st, 2006, 12:40 PM
Ok say you opened all gates at once Like they did to wipe out the Replicaters. You are basicly have 1 gate call all the rest in the Network.

Ok the question:
So if a human stepped through wouldn't then that person arive at all the planets in the Network Via the Gate? Becasue wouldn't the Data stream be sent to all the gates?

Forgive me i didnt have alot of time to post this. So i didnt take the time to Search.

I think I saw another thread similar to this. To answer your question, I think that the gates have safety measures when it comes to that and probably they would only go to one gate out of the network.

helio9
March 1st, 2006, 01:00 PM
The Gate system was likely designed to prevent that type of thing in the first place. Baal and Nerus likely just bypassed that feature. Who knows what would happen.

There are other issues too. Like if they opened all the gates, shouldn't it have also connected to the black hole gate? And if so...then what would be the effect of the gravity waves of the gate? If they didnt dial the black hole gate...why not? The replicators have proven that they can overcome time dilation, it would be a perfect hiding place for them.

My solution: Don't think about it.

puddlejumper747
March 1st, 2006, 01:28 PM
Like if they opened all the gates, shouldn't it have also connected to the black hole gate? And if so...then what would be the effect of the gravity waves of the gate? If they didnt dial the black hole gate...why not?I'm pretty sure that they didn't connect to the black hole gate because (if I'm remembering correctly, which I think I am) the Aschen are already connected to it....more or less permanently. So, at least until the black hole gate is destroyed, both of their stargates are essentially locked out of the gate network. See? No problem. :)

Schrodinger82
March 1st, 2006, 04:59 PM
The Stargate wouldn't allow it. The Ancients were all smart and stuff and would have programmed the gate to behave 'conservatively'. It may not have let anything through, like in Watergate.

Sounds like the best bet. The "dialing al at once" seems more like a dianostic tool than an actual function.

LORD MONK
March 1st, 2006, 05:38 PM
I think you would go to the first gate it dials or the last in the network.

cafine_us
March 1st, 2006, 05:50 PM
I think by definition of this situation, all the gates are dialed at the exact same time.

walterIsTheMan
March 1st, 2006, 05:54 PM
I don't know what would happen, but I don't think that it would make a person come out of each gate. The law of conservation of energy and mass says matter can't be created out of nowhere, yet you would be essentially turning 1 person into a thousand, or a million.

helio9
March 1st, 2006, 07:14 PM
I'm pretty sure that they didn't connect to the black hole gate because (if I'm remembering correctly, which I think I am) the Aschen are already connected to it....more or less permanently. So, at least until the black hole gate is destroyed, both of their stargates are essentially locked out of the gate network. See? No problem. :)
Which only leads to another problem. There are thousands of gates in the galaxy, all used by various races and people. Out of all of those gates, chances are at least a couple were active when they activated all the stargates.

The point I was trying to make was that the whole idea of activating the whole stargate network at the same time poses many problems.

Gate Master
March 1st, 2006, 08:32 PM
Ok say you opened all gates at once Like they did to wipe out the Replicaters. You are basicly have 1 gate call all the rest in the Network.

Ok the question:
So if a human stepped through wouldn't then that person arive at all the planets in the Network Via the Gate? Becasue wouldn't the Data stream be sent to all the gates?

Forgive me i didnt have alot of time to post this. So i didnt take the time to Search.

This question was put to joe in his thread and he said that the persons atoms would be spread across the galaxy as some here have said. I assume from this that only energy such as radio waves or as in this case the disruptor wave will go through all the gates in tact although you would expect them to be diluted as well. So the initial wave must take account of that and be sufficiently powerful.

knowles2
March 2nd, 2006, 03:10 AM
Also the feature that let the stargate open all at once is a dianostic tool, they use it update all the dhds corodinates at once, taking into count insteller drift, that way all the stargate remain updated.

Brickster
March 2nd, 2006, 11:53 AM
I don't know what would happen, but I don't think that it would make a person come out of each gate. The law of conservation of energy and mass says matter can't be created out of nowhere, yet you would be essentially turning 1 person into a thousand, or a million.

WHAT? Did you think about what you are saying before you typed it. You aren't creating matter. You would be using the energy that powers the gate and transforming it into matter. You could make as many people as you want. You would just be decreasing the amount of energy.

ancientaction
March 2nd, 2006, 11:59 AM
the 'opening all gates at once' is a diagnotstic feature of the gates, the gatew were programed to update themselves every so often, and have other abilityes other then 'sending object to another planet' the dialing funtion to access all gates, if sombody walked trough, they probally just walk to the other side of the gate, they wouldn't travel to another plannet or anything.

but then again, who knows

aschen
March 2nd, 2006, 12:08 PM
My theory...hoorj!

Based upon how the energy flowed through the gates in "Reckoning Pt 2," I would say that you'd actually travel to every gate in the universe. :D

puddlejumper747
March 2nd, 2006, 03:08 PM
Which only leads to another problem. There are thousands of gates in the galaxy, all used by various races and people. Out of all of those gates, chances are at least a couple were active when they activated all the stargates.I do think you were making a valid point, but I just don't think that it's as complicated as you seem to expect. I don't think this is necessarily a problem, either. It just means that the network might have coordinated itself to shut down all active wormholes as quickly/safely as possible before establishing the new connection. And since the black hole/Aschen stargates are already locked out of the system (due to time dialation and/or already being destroyed), they're not a problem either. It might not be the most obvious solution, but think it's reasonable.

Auralis
March 2nd, 2006, 03:33 PM
What i think is, that since the all gates is a diagnostic, update feature of the network. You can not dial all gates at once and create a wormhole as well.
That is the designed mode of operation.
To actually dial all gates at onces and open a wormhole, one needs to bypass the savety features of the system, therefore an object entering the gate you be scattered across all gates since the savety is disengaged.

Superman195
March 6th, 2006, 07:57 PM
sam said when they got the first iris it was 3 micro meters from the event horizon, it doesnt even allow matter to fully rematerialize

Spell_Daemon
March 9th, 2006, 03:26 PM
The destructive vortex particles can't form when an iris is present.

When a stargate is buryed, and is turned on, the barrier forms an iris. when it's off and burried, the gate becomes unusable until it's unburried.

If you look through some episodes you'll find that this man is Correct!!!

Naonak
March 10th, 2006, 12:18 PM
What would happen if you walked around an active gate and walked through the other side of the event horizon?
Might be a stupid question, but hey...

Daryl Froggy
March 11th, 2006, 03:36 PM
What would happen if you walked around an active gate and walked through the other side of the event horizon?
Might be a stupid question, but hey...
I think there is a thread about that somewhere on the forum.

_Owen_
March 27th, 2006, 01:39 PM
I think there is a thread about that somewhere on the forum.
There have been several discussions about this already but its ok for asking its a good question mainly because we don't know. The logical course would be to put some kind of energy barrier that would prevent you from entering. This would mostly be for the protection of primitive people, however, perhaps the ancients were only thinking about their own use and didn't consider others. If you have a deck on the back of your house and small children you may want to put railings on it, with intricate laticces to protect your children from falling but if you don't have children and only mature adults will be using the deck there is no reason to put intricate lattices.

Ludofjn
April 8th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Plot Holes

SG1TOM
April 18th, 2006, 01:14 PM
There is indeed a discrepancy in the Stargate. The ancient Egyptions buried their gate preventing it's use. The Nox were advised to bury the gate to prevent its use. And yet, in "100 Days", a buried gate WAS activated. Therein lies the discrepancy in the technology line.

Avatar28
April 18th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Not at all. In 100 days the gate wasn't buried (at least not in the sense you're referring to). The gate was active at the time and so the molten material flowed over top of the event horizon and hardened. When the wormhole disengaged it had formed a natural iris. The material was not within the stargate, which would have kept it from connecting. So just like our gate, it's able to be dialed but nothing can get through without going splat.

Jakebbq
April 18th, 2006, 10:56 PM
when the gate was covered in magma wouldnt it go through just like in

the episode of stargate atlantis called inferno where they closed the sheild just as the gate sunk in magma and the magma went through the gate but the shield stoped it spiling across the atlantis gateroom

Avatar28
April 19th, 2006, 12:45 AM
apparently not in this case. Don't ask me, I didn't write the episode. And it was actually melted naquada, presumably from the stargate itself.

Rodan5757
April 21st, 2006, 09:07 AM
when the gate was covered in magma wouldnt it go through just like in

The Gate was necessarily coved in magma. It was impacted with an extremely heat meteor which while molten was not a flowing liquid. Therefore, the meteorite rested on the Stargate and possibly within the wormhole, but since the entire of the meteor didn’t enter the wormhole, it didn’t come through to the other side. The DHD was then disconnected, and the power was cut to the gate, but not before the liquid of the event horizon hardened into an iris.

The events of inferno most likely caused the same thing to occur as soon as the Stargate shut down. However, unlike 100 Days where the Stargate was resting on solid ground, in Inferno the Stargate was within the magma. So the wormhole was formed into an iris-like blockade, while the backside of the gate was filled in causing the gate to be essentially buried and to not allow incoming connections.

lostpimp123
May 16th, 2006, 04:01 PM
what about the other side of the gate?
what happens if you go into it? do you go through it? end up on the gate dialed,hit a force field? you die?

freyr's mother
May 16th, 2006, 04:04 PM
The answers you seek lie here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=22491

lostpimp123
May 16th, 2006, 05:46 PM
could someone explain the other side of the gate?

Syera
May 16th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Indeed. What happens when you enter through the 'wrong' side of the gate?

Rodan5757
May 18th, 2006, 10:50 AM
Indeed. What happens when you enter through the 'wrong' side of the gate?

I would imagine that nothing would happen. If the entrance side is ‘solid’ that can sense resistance and hold items in position when not touching the ground (i.e. The wreath in ‘Fire and Water’). Then there is no reason why not to assume that the back of the gate would have a strong enough resistance to feel like a soft wall. You couldn’t push through it if you wanted too.

The movie would have us believe that the back of the wormhole spirals horizontally outward. In which you would see the funnel if you walked behind the gate. This, however, is not consistent with SG-1 cannon.

Platschu
May 27th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Can you tell me why are black circles around the active eventhorizont in Season 9? I have seen it first in Prototype, but this hasn't been in earlier seasons, if I know well.

Schrodinger82
June 1st, 2006, 05:47 PM
Maybe this has been addressed, but...

Is it just me, or the the mechanics of the iris make no sense? It's inside the gate itself, yet "folds" in such a way that you can't see it when it's not activated. That alone doesn't make sense.

But then it goes from not being able to see it, to being able to cover the same wormhole. Again, no sense.

But then, the ENTIRE IRIS is only a few microns away from the wormhole. So close, that it's impossible for matter to intergrate. At all.

How in the world is it possible to physically design something with these properties?

nickak2003
June 4th, 2006, 06:30 PM
mechanics of the iris make no sense

Another thing we ignore inorder to enjoy stargate.

rarocks24
June 5th, 2006, 04:47 PM
I have a question and it bears asking. Didn't know whether this belonged in Science and Tech or in General Discussion.

If the Antarctic Stargate wasn't buried, then why wasn't it working? Theoretically, wouldn't someone dialling Earth be taken to Antarctica instead of Egypt while the Egyptian gate was buried? And wouldn't the Antarctic gate still be the dominant gate since it was still active? It had a working DHD and everything. And as it was the original stargate, wouldn't it have precedence over Ra's?

-Tyrus-
June 10th, 2006, 12:08 PM
I have a question and it bears asking. Didn't know whether this belonged in Science and Tech or in General Discussion.

If the Antarctic Stargate wasn't buried, then why wasn't it working? Theoretically, wouldn't someone dialling Earth be taken to Antarctica instead of Egypt while the Egyptian gate was buried? And wouldn't the Antarctic gate still be the dominant gate since it was still active? It had a working DHD and everything. And as it was the original stargate, wouldn't it have precedence over Ra's?

It is possible that Goa'uld could have gated to earth and got trapped in the ice or drowned. It is also possible that they would have been unable to get to the DHD and wouldnt be able to gate home. The thing is if that had happened there would be bodies in the ice.
It is possible that Ra's gate had precedence because it had the least wormhole resistance... Or it could be because Ra' used the gate often...

Harekin
June 11th, 2006, 02:17 PM
Can you tell me why are black circles around the active eventhorizont in Season 9? I have seen it first in Prototype, but this hasn't been in earlier seasons, if I know well.
That was just a shadow actually. I checked it.

2ndgenerationalteran
June 16th, 2006, 02:48 PM
sorry if this has been asked but isnt keeping parts of your body in the gate while it is active and not going through it very dangerous? Say you put your finger into the event horizon, wouldnt your blood will flow into the finger which is dematierialized? and eventually you will lose a lot of blood? or at minute 37 you jump through and all the blood will be at your finger and it would blow up?

Harekin
June 18th, 2006, 02:33 PM
sorry if this has been asked but isnt keeping parts of your body in the gate while it is active and not going through it very dangerous? Say you put your finger into the event horizon, wouldnt your blood will flow into the finger which is dematierialized? and eventually you will lose a lot of blood? or at minute 37 you jump through and all the blood will be at your finger and it would blow up?
Someone who finally makes me think...:S I dunno.

nickak2003
June 18th, 2006, 08:52 PM
sorry if this has been asked but isnt keeping parts of your body in the gate while it is active and not going through it very dangerous? Say you put your finger into the event horizon, wouldnt your blood will flow into the finger which is dematierialized? and eventually you will lose a lot of blood? or at minute 37 you jump through and all the blood will be at your finger and it would blow up?
The gate must have an interactive buffer, allowing stuff to enter and exit. It has already been stated that the gate doesnt send information until the entire object has entered, this is how tealc managed to get trapped in a receiving buffer.

2ndgenerationalteran
June 19th, 2006, 02:25 AM
kind of defies what we know of an event horizon, because isnt it supposed to be the point of no return? but that maybe just only apply to black holes