Why Dont They Already Have Unlimited ZPM's

[Gate Master]

This question has been bugging me for some time. Such enphasis is put on ZPM's in the show, yet the means for unlimited ZPM's has already been established.
Under the rules of time travel established with in the show they should beable to make as many temporal copies of a ZPM as they require using the timeship.
They've already demonstrated the willingness to use the ship for such a purpose and the risks would be minimal if they did it from a future prospective and not go back in time.
I'd be interested to know others thoughts on this.

BIG SPOILERS AHEAD FOR LATER SG1 EPS I do apologise but I completely forgot to include spoiler warnings initially and am not sure how to alter the title with a spoiler warning now that Ive made it. The big spoilers relate to Mobious parts 1&2 as well as the ep Its Good to Be King. Unfortunately the thread has progressed to far to include spoiler tags also. Again every one has my apologies and I will be more careful in future. If there is away to add spoiler warnings on to the title now I would appreciate it if someone could let me know how to at least minimise any damage.

[ItsDan]

What do you mean by 'temporal copies'? If its only one ZPM, then no matter how many points in time you take it from, it would be drawing the same power.

[Gate Master]

What do you mean by 'temporal copies'? If its only one ZPM, then no matter how many points in time you take it from, it would be drawing the same power.

Sorry I should have clarified it better. What I meant by temporal copies was just as in Mobious they created numerous timeships they could purposely use the time ship to create numerous ZPM's.
All they would need to do is bury the thing in the sand on some deserted planet then go in to the future and retrieve it. Then go back to an earlier point but still after it was buried and do the same again untill there are for example 10 of them in the timeship with them. They could do this as many times as necessary.

[helio9]

They won't do that for the same reason that SG-teams don't wear super-soldier armour - the show would be stupid.

[jonno]

Sorry I should have clarified it better. What I meant by temporal copies was just as in Mobious they created numerous timeships they could purposely use the time ship to create numerous ZPM's.
All they would need to do is bury the thing in the sand on some deserted planet then go in to the future and retrieve it. Then go back to an earlier point but still after it was buried and do the same again untill there are for example 10 of them in the timeship with them. They could do this as many times as necessary.

As far as we know, the timeship can only travel backward in time, and it has to be backward in time a long way (not say, for 5 minutes).

Secondly, they didn't create multiple timeships. It was the same one throughout the episode.

[Gate Master]

They won't do that for the same reason that SG-teams don't wear super-soldier armour - the show would be stupid.

I agree it might speed things along quicker than they would like but then they should be more careful about such obvious plot holes like that in the show, especially one which undermines the whole story line. I think an explanation needs to be included in an ep to at least say why they cant do that.

[Gate Master]

As far as we know, the timeship can only travel backward in time, and it has to be backward in time a long way (not say, for 5 minutes).

Secondly, they didn't create multiple timeships. It was the same one throughout the episode.

We know it can go forward in time from ep Its good to be king and it can make jumps of 100 years so all they would need to do is make two jumps to get more accurate time frames.
It was the same ship but at least two copies of which exist in the past.

[jonno]

We know it can go forward in time from ep Its good to be king and it can make jumps of 100 years so all they would need to do is make two jumps to get more accurate time frames.
It was the same ship but at least two copies of which exist in the past.

Forgive me, but I haven't seen IGtbK for I while ... i don't suppose you could provide a quote from the ep to prove that bit?

Secondly ... how do you figure two copies exist?

[Gate Master]

Forgive me, but I haven't seen IGtbK for I while ... i don't suppose you could provide a quote from the ep to prove that bit?

Secondly ... how do you figure two copies exist?

Firstly I'm not sure on exact wording but the ep revolved around an ancient from the past traveling in to the planets future and returning to the past to record what he had learned on the tablet that Maybourn was using to predict future events.

There were two ships as the goauld managed to grap the first one and then a second one would have appeared from the alternate future bringing the second SG1.

[Laros]

One small problem. Even if you could do that (which you can't. It would create a paradox) you'd be no farther ahead. ZPMs draw their power from the zero point energy present in pocket universes to which they have access. There would be no point in bringing one back in time, then using two of the same ZPM. They would both draw energy from the same pocket universe. Sure, you could get twice the power out of them, but they would dry up twice as fast.

[Gate Master]

One small problem. Even if you could do that (which you can't. It would create a paradox) you'd be no farther ahead. ZPMs draw their power from the zero point energy present in pocket universes to which they have access. There would be no point in bringing one back in time, then using two of the same ZPM. They would both draw energy from the same pocket universe. Sure, you could get twice the power out of them, but they would dry up twice as fast.

Thats certainly a plausable explanation to why it wouldn't work on a ZPM if the universe it draws its power from exists outside of our space time. But we haven't been given enough info in the show about how exactly the ZPM's function to say one way or another.
Under the current rules of time travel with in the show the paradox problem is solved by alternate realities. So under these rules technically it wouldn't be the same ZPM it would be one from an alternate reality.

[jonno]

Firstly I'm not sure on exact wording but the ep revolved around an ancient from the past traveling in to the planets future and returning to the past to record what he had learned on the tablet that Maybourn was using to predict future events.

There were two ships as the goauld managed to grap the first one and then a second one would have appeared from the alternate future bringing the second SG1.

Ok, fair enough on the forward in time stuff, BUT

Quotes from the Moebius transcript:

CARTER: Not necessarily. They don't know what it is, and even if they did, they can't use it. None of them have the gene -- even Ra won't be able to make it work.

DAVIS: We think this was the ship SG-1 used to travel back in time.

ALT CARTER: Where did you find it?

DAVIS: It was uncovered during an excavation of the area around the tomb where the tape was found. Please. (He gestures towards the rear of the ship. They walk around to the rear. The ramp is down and technicians are working inside. Sam and Daniel walk inside and stare.)

That implies to me that as Ra was unable to use it, the original PJ just ended up buried, to be excavated by the ALT team, and then used.

[jonno]

Although, thinking about it again, wouldn't the final timeline have both the original PJ used throughout Moebius, plus an additional one from that timelines IGtbK, which they never have to use to go back in time?

Ermm... I hate time paradoxes!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

They hurt my head.

[Gate Master]

Ok, fair enough on the forward in time stuff, BUT

Quotes from the Moebius transcript:





That implies to me that as Ra was unable to use it, the original PJ just ended up buried, to be excavated by the ALT team, and then used.

Thats true but it would have still been there in the past as sure as the other sg team was. Also at that point there would have been most-likely two in present time, the one found and the one on the planet where Maybourne went to even tho he never went there in that reality. And as you say there should now be three time ships in our reality although I must admit that hadn't occurred to me before you mentioned it.
If its any consulation these time parodox's are giving me a headache as well

[jonno]

Thats true but it would have still been there in the past as sure as the other sg team was. Also at that point there would have been most-likely two in present time, the one found and the one on the planet where Maybourne went to even tho he never went there in that reality. And as you say there should now be three time ships in our reality although I must admit that hadn't occurred to me before you mentioned

I still maintain only two:

The Original
An extra one from IGtbK

Ok ... let me put out a timeline:

Episode IgtBK, original timeline.
Jumper discovered.

Episode Moebius I, original timeline
Jumper used to go back in time. Left on Earth.


Episode Moebius II, ALT timeline
ORIGINAL Jumper goes to Chulak, and ultimately back in time.
Actions of Alt SG-1 leads to final timeline
Note ... in this timeline IGtbK Jumper never discovered

Episode IgtBK, FINAL timeline.
Jumper discovered

Episode Moebius II, FINAL timeline
SG-1 find ZPM and tape.
Possibility ORIGINAL Jumper is on Earth somewhere.

That's a max of 2 jumpers, although the original jumper may not exist anymore as in this timeline, we don't go back in time:

CARTER: Not yet. Apparently we were going to, two weeks from now, but now we don't have to.

O'NEILL: Excellent! (Daniel and Teal'c nod to each other and walk away.) That's it! I like it!

In Conclusion ... in the FINAL timeline, there's a max of two jumpers, and a possibility of only one

PS THIS IS THE LAST TIME I TRY AND EXPLAIN A TEMPORAL PARADOX. It's 3am here in the UK and my brain now hurts.