The Stargate Factory

[Fsudryden]

About 6 months ago I asked J. mallozi if they had thought about how the ancients built so many stargates. I mentioned a stargate factory idea to him.

He replied.

He said for years they have been tossing around the idea. He said season 10 may be the time.

Think of it.

Daniel Jackson is a brilliant archaeologist.

He did ascend, but he did not make a fantastic archaeological find yet.

For instance the man who found King Tut. His discovery opened up a whole civilization up to us all that had been hidden for over 3000 years.

Now Daniel has helped us similarly discover earths true past.

But, imagine the discovery of the ancient's stargate factory. Working or not would be THE greatest find so far. Even more if it is just powered down and needs the power turned on.

Imagine Daniel flipping the switch. hehe I get goose bumps just thinking about it. Also Earth will be a major power since we now are the only ones who can pump out new gates. hehe... So what do you think it would be like. What kind of story will the writers come out with you think?

[BigGator5]

Hey, that may be cool as hell! They could replace any Stargate they may lose.

[Formerhost]

Stargate factory is definitely cool idea. It would be great to see something like this in season 10.

[Iguana775]

Maybe Carter could somehow figure out the science behind it and create some crazy device. lol.

or maybe create hand held DHDs.

[BigGator5]

Maybe Carter could somehow figure out the science behind it and create some crazy device. lol.

or maybe create hand held DHDs.

That would be too cool. Atlantis has DHDs on the Jumpers and Darts, so why can't SG-1 have something like that?

[Commander Ivanova]

maybe create hand held DHDs.

Like this idea, can imagine SG1 running towards the gate under fire while dialling like mad on their wristwatch DHDs. Miniaturised mobile DHDs is definitely the way to go.

Stargate factory, cool idea, suppose we could plant a new gate as a matter of course on every new planet visited, way to conquer the galaxy!

[Iguana775]

I find it funny that in the Children Of the Gods, Apophis was able to open the gate with a hand held devise but never to be seen again. lol.

Also, I wonder how the Asgard open the gate? They seem to be able to with a wave of the hand.

[Wraith_Hunter]

I have to be totaaly honest. I don't see how any Stargate factory could be of any real use to them.

The only benefits will be to place them on their ships. Perhaps power sources, so that they can use them as a now form of energy source for all their tech & of course to let them be able to dial other galaxies. However I don't think that would be in it, because they aren't powered by ZPM's & you need an external power supply to give it the extra energy.

The only other benefit would be to place them on planets that don't have any. I can't imagine that they have been to that many, since the whole premise has been using the SG's to explore. Now they have ships, so that means that they could come across more gateless worlds. Unless they are rich in tech or for ancient ruins etc, doing that would only waste valuable resources, only to get little if anything back in return.

So the long shot is, that they will only be beneficial to place them on their ships. However they could do that now if they wanted to, they have the Asgard beaming tech, so could go to an uninhabited planet, like the one from 'Paradise Lost', & take that & the DHD up. Then get Hermy to integrate it to their systems. Which would be cool. Then all they'd need to do was scale down the 302's a bit. If trouble is detected, they simply dial it up & send them through for support until the big boy gets there to deal with it.

[LORD MONK]

Hand held DHD sounds cool. They already excist or we know we can have them. The Nox can do it with hand movement and in the ep. 1976 the little girl has some that opens it and sends them home.

The Tollan also built a Stargate with the help of the No and I am sure that the Asgard knows how to if the Nox and Tollan can slap one together.

The true advantage would be so we can place them on our Ships.

[Iguana775]

I have to be totaaly honest. I don't see how any Stargate factory could be of any real use to them.

The only benefits will be to place them on their ships. Perhaps power sources, so that they can use them as a now form of energy source for all their tech & of course to let them be able to dial other galaxies. However I don't think that would be in it, because they aren't powered by ZPM's & you need an external power supply to give it the extra energy.

The only other benefit would be to place them on planets that don't have any. I can't imagine that they have been to that many, since the whole premise has been using the SG's to explore. Now they have ships, so that means that they could come across more gateless worlds. Unless they are rich in tech or for ancient ruins etc, doing that would only waste valuable resources, only to get little if anything back in return.

So the long shot is, that they will only be beneficial to place them on their ships. However they could do that now if they wanted to, they have the Asgard beaming tech, so could go to an uninhabited planet, like the one from 'Paradise Lost', & take that & the DHD up. Then get Hermy to integrate it to their systems. Which would be cool. Then all they'd need to do was scale down the 302's a bit. If trouble is detected, they simply dial it up & send them through for support until the big boy gets there to deal with it.

while i agree that there could be no real value in making more stargates, but I do think there is value in the understanding SGC could get from seeing a factory like this. Give Carter or McKay design spec and let them go nuts.

[MarshAngel]

I have to be totaaly honest. I don't see how any Stargate factory could be of any real use to them.

The only benefits will be to place them on their ships. Perhaps power sources, so that they can use them as a now form of energy source for all their tech & of course to let them be able to dial other galaxies. However I don't think that would be in it, because they aren't powered by ZPM's & you need an external power supply to give it the extra energy.

The only other benefit would be to place them on planets that don't have any. I can't imagine that they have been to that many, since the whole premise has been using the SG's to explore. Now they have ships, so that means that they could come across more gateless worlds. Unless they are rich in tech or for ancient ruins etc, doing that would only waste valuable resources, only to get little if anything back in return.

So the long shot is, that they will only be beneficial to place them on their ships. However they could do that now if they wanted to, they have the Asgard beaming tech, so could go to an uninhabited planet, like the one from 'Paradise Lost', & take that & the DHD up. Then get Hermy to integrate it to their systems. Which would be cool. Then all they'd need to do was scale down the 302's a bit. If trouble is detected, they simply dial it up & send them through for support until the big boy gets there to deal with it.
I'm with you on this one. I don't see there being much benefit to this. I'd also find the idea that it would be in a state of being fully operational just too convenient. I know ancient tech seems to last foever but that in itself is already stretching belief. As far as we've seen Atlantis is the oldest ancient city that's fully functional. Any gate factory in the milky way would be significantly older than Atlantis. This city would be tens of millions of years old. I wouldn't rule out that it would be functional but I'd rather it wasn't. It would be nice to see it but to use it to create gates would just be too much.

If they found something else in it of value however, that would be more interesting.

[knowsfords]

Well...
We know that Baal happens to steal alot of stargates, I'm thinking for recycling use as alot of the naquida mines would have likely been closed. Also it cuts a fairly large chunk of power from earth as they cant go and explore some more.


However, I would love to see an earth built stargate using ancient production technology to replace the one at the sgc :) especially considering they've lost the gate a few times.

[Major_Griff]

It would be cool if they found the Stargate factory and they found or made a few to put on each BC-303!! How cool would that be!!!

[NakedJehutyV2]

i would think that the factory would be in atlantis

[the fifth man]

Finding a Stargate factory. Now that would be something to see. However, would it be operational? If they could make it so, I definitely see benefits.

[Jarnin]

Well...
We know that Baal happens to steal alot of stargates, I'm thinking for recycling use as alot of the naquida mines would have likely been closed. Also it cuts a fairly large chunk of power from earth as they cant go and explore some more.

Well, I seriously doubt that he's going to melt down those gates for resources.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's stealing gates and moving them to other planets. That way he can set up a base where nobody would know the address besides him.

As for the stargate factory, it was brought up in the Tech forum, and trashed pretty quickly. Is it a cool idea? Sure. Is it realistic? No way.

Think about it; if you build gates in a factory, say in Atlantis, then you have to get a gate (or many), then fly to where you want to drop them, then fly back to the factory to get more gates. The key is that you have to have already explored the entire galaxy, and know exactly where you want to place the gates in the first place.

Instead, you build the gates while you're exploring the galaxy. If you find a habitable planet, you mine the resources, build a gate and place it on the planet. Once it's placed, you can continue on to the next unexplored region and repeat the process if neccessary.

I'm not saying that there isn't a Stargate Factory. I'm just saying that if there is one, it should be on a ship. It just makes way more sense from a logistics standpoint.

[Wraith_Hunter]

Well, I seriously doubt that he's going to melt down those gates for resources.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's stealing gates and moving them to other planets. That way he can set up a base where nobody would know the address besides him.

As for the stargate factory, it was brought up in the Tech forum, and trashed pretty quickly. Is it a cool idea? Sure. Is it realistic? No way.

Think about it; if you build gates in a factory, say in Atlantis, then you have to get a gate (or many), then fly to where you want to drop them, then fly back to the factory to get more gates. The key is that you have to have already explored the entire galaxy, and know exactly where you want to place the gates in the first place.

Instead, you build the gates while you're exploring the galaxy. If you find a habitable planet, you mine the resources, build a gate and place it on the planet. Once it's placed, you can continue on to the next unexplored region and repeat the process if neccessary.

I'm not saying that there isn't a Stargate Factory. I'm just saying that if there is one, it should be on a ship. It just makes way more sense from a logistics standpoint.

It really depends if they are patient or not or if they are in a hurry to get them setup.

For instance in the MW there was none when the Ancients first arrived. So presumably over 50 million years ago, there was probably hardly any intelligent life out there. The same thing goes for Pegasus. So there would be no real hurry to get them put up around the place. They already had intergalactic capable ships, so zipping around within their new galaxy wouldn't present much of a problem for them. What you have to remember is since these galaxies wouldn't have contained much if any technologically advanced species at all, then the Ancients wouldn't have been in a hurry to get them all spread around the galaxy. So they were probably layed individually throughout the galaxy within a timeframe of years to hundreds of years.

They will have scouted worlds & first planted them on the planets that contained valauable resources for them to mine or strip down for their tech.

It would make sense to have a Stargate facility on one of their large transport/cargo/science type ships. This way they can be made & setup in real time. However I don't think they were in any great hurry, as we know they are a patient race of people. So I say that they will have been initially created aboard the ships that they used to flee their home galaxy in. Then positioned at strategic points of the galaxy that they were currently in. Then after a long journey & search for a new home, they finally came upon the MW galaxy. Some had probably already left the main group & branched out into past galaxies, so were left behind by the others. They then found a new home planet. So after each group had settled in their new galaxy & found a planet. There will have been a handful of SG's already planted in that particular galaxy. So they had already put them in planets that had either a strategic importance or were rich in natural resources. Factories that not only built SG's but also ships & other tech, could then have been setup on these multiple planets. Then the gate's could have been easily planted over a period of time.

One other theory that I have is that they layed a few at different points in the galaxy, then from their home planet, in the MW's case that would be Earth. They dialled up a previously layed Stargate. Sent a handful of Jumpers through with all the equipment needed to construct a StarGate. Then the PJ's would have gone through, flown to a nearby chosen gateless planet. Landed the ships & then unloaded the ships & built the gate. Dial up another & so on. This way, they wouldn't even need to lay them by having a large ships flying around the galaxy laying them one by one. For that matter, they also wouldn't have needed factories to produce them. They could have been built in small quantities on the same ship, then transported via Jumpers around the galaxy using already layed gate's to jump around the place.

Either way, it would be an interesting concept, but as I've previously stated. There wouldn't be too much that they could get from it, that they couldn't get right now. I don't imagine that they would have tiny handheld portable DHD's in the MW. Especially since we know Pegasus has MKII's. Therefore it would have the large standard ones. So if they wanted to learn about portable DHD's they'd be better of studying those in the PJ's. If they want gates, then simply taken them from pre-exsisting gated planets that contain no life.

I do however think that they will eventually show some cool ancient structures in the MW. JM posted in his thread a few weeks back, that the ships that the Alterrans originally used to flle their own galaxy & come here, are still around somewher ein this galaxy. So perhaps that's a hint as to what's up their sleeves for S10 or S11.

As for ancient factories, I honestly believe that the best bet will be Atlantis for those. Although I would love to see another ancient structure like that in 'Trinity', part of me doesn't because we all know what will happen. The exact same thing as it did in 'Trinity' & 'Aurora'. It will have it's ass blown to smithereens. A slong as they found one & let them keep it (and continued to follow up on it by giving us regular status updates) then I'd be happy.

[Skythe]

I think saying there would be no use for having a stargate factory is a bit silly. There have been many episodes where worlds without stargates have been introduced. Imagine, mars having its own stargate. lol. Someone like baal could potentially exploit the stargate system as did the trust/russians to go offworld. Theres a lot they could do.

[Wraith_Hunter]

Why is it silly?

There actually have been very, very few races that have been introduced that don't have gates. They have only had Prometheus for a few years & it's only know that it seems to have a decent hyperdrive in it. So Daedalus or any other Daedalus ships haven't been to gateless worlds that have revealed new races. Then I honestly don't really know what you are talking about.

Why have one on Mars, they would need space suits to build. So since Daedalus or Prometheus could get there in secs/mins. Then why not send that & beam people down for any surveys. Why establish a base on Mars anyway. They have the technology now to scan for enemies that are on approach. That combined with Mars being in the path to Earth, would just give them much more work, should there be any future attack. This will give them twice the work, as rather than just Earth, they would need to go & protect Mars also.

Basically your arguement that it's silly revolves around getting new gates as a spare. As I've already said, they don't need a complete factory to get gates. They use the Daedalus class ships to scan for planets, go there & see if it contains any signs of advanced life. If it doesn't then like magic, they have a new spare gate all to themselves. There will be many, many lifeless worlds out there in the MW that have gates. Such as those wiped out & enslaved by the Goa'uld or those about to be by the Ori.

So it's far from silly, trust me on that!

[Skythe]

Rather than talk about it in a practical context, i think it would be great for just a simple storyline. They arrive at some sort of stargate creation facility, carter does the wrong thing, they face impending death etc etc. Just off the top of my head i can think of like xyz stories they could use with such a concept. I guess its just one of those things i want to know. We've discovered who made the gates, finding out how (or perhaps why) they were created seems like the next logical question.

[MarshAngel]

As for the stargate factory, it was brought up in the Tech forum, and trashed pretty quickly. Is it a cool idea? Sure. Is it realistic? No way.

Think about it; if you build gates in a factory, say in Atlantis, then you have to get a gate (or many), then fly to where you want to drop them, then fly back to the factory to get more gates. The key is that you have to have already explored the entire galaxy, and know exactly where you want to place the gates in the first place.


Exactly. I agreed with this theory the first time it was brought up as well.
While it may seem that Earth-like planets are a dime a dozen in the milkyway I doubt we've run into a full thousand of them so far. There are millions of star systems, most of them empty. And the idea that there would be a galaxy teeming with Eath-like planets but void of life is ridiculous particularly since the Ancients did not bring ALL life to the Milky Way as there are several non-humanoid races around... never mind those pesky dinosaurs.

Point being, even given the Ancients power, when they first got to the Milky Way they weren't likely as advanced as they were by the time they built Atlantis. Which means it took lots of time to find every planet suitable for human life, decide if it was stable, perhaps even make it stable, determine the best place for a gate etc. That's a lot of light years to cover, a lot of naquadah mining to do as well as other raw materials, if they had to go back to a factory every time they found a suitable planet without other intelligent species they'd probably still be at it.

We currently have almost no practical means, of our own, of finding Earth-like planets that don't have gates on them. So we don't have too many places to put them and if we did we wouldn't reap much benefit from it. We need allies more than we need empty planets.

Making gates and dhds from scratch, mining the naquadah and creating the dhd crystals and power source would probably require far more effort than it's worth. Would all the parts be made in the same location? from scratch?

[Wraith_Hunter]

Rather than talk about it in a practical context, i think it would be great for just a simple storyline. They arrive at some sort of stargate creation facility, carter does the wrong thing, they face impending death etc etc. Just off the top of my head i can think of like xyz stories they could use with such a concept. I guess its just one of those things i want to know. We've discovered who made the gates, finding out how (or perhaps why) they were created seems like the next logical question.

Can't see them doing that though. That'd be a blatant rip-off from 'Trinity'.

I do believe that they have manufacturing plantis, probably a fair few that were used throughout the many millions of years that they roamed the MW galaxy. However they seem like the type of people that would use them for multiple things, rather than just a single purpose. As I said before, it seems like too much hassle to just have these things for one purpose. They probably planted many in strategic positions throughout the galaxy, as a general means of travelling through it. The others will have been on seeded worlds & naturally prosperous planets that are rich in natural elements. So it seems to me that the gates were planted at various times during their stay here. I say hundreds of years, but since they probably seeded life over the millions of years. Then it's possible that if you consider that they were here for over 50 million years, then it could be over the 1000's or even millions of years.

They probably placed gates on the seeded worlds that contained human life, then perhaps many alien species as well. So basically I can't see every planet having one in the galaxy. There will most likely be many 1000's rather than millions. So having factories that spanned such a large period of time for placing so few gates, would be a bad waste of resources. That's why I suspect that they built them a few at a time & placed them, then when the time came again in future, be that 10's/100's or even 1000's of years, they would do it again.

They will have had to have construction facilities though, so if they came across one, then it will most definitely have multiple uses. Such as ships, cities, buildings, power & weapons etc. That I can & would like to see them come across & it would be more believeable to have them come across something like that. On the down side, we know the writers would never let them keep it though, so it'd only be a matter of an ep or two before it was gone again.

[The Signal]

There seems to be a little abiguity in the reply, did he mean "We have been tossing the idea of a stargate factory around or just an idea of how the gates were made. Just a thought.

[NakedJehutyV2]

the factory is in yet an undiscovered part of atlantis hidden from sensors

[canuck49]

I don't think that anyone is seeing the potential that this plot device could have.

Imagine that they could make new gates! They could make a whole new network that no one but their allies know about. World that are ripe with live, but are not occupied and even uncharted so no one will look for any activity there. Imagine the expansion that Earth could do and the secret bases and Deadulas factories that could be made! Imagine going to worlds that are full of naquida and other elements that we could use!

I think that it is an awesome idea!

Cheers
canuck49

[MarshAngel]

I don't think that anyone is seeing the potential that this plot device could have.

Imagine that they could make new gates! They could make a whole new network that no one but their allies know about. World that are ripe with live, but are not occupied and even uncharted so no one will look for any activity there. Imagine the expansion that Earth could do and the secret bases and Deadulas factories that could be made! Imagine going to worlds that are full of naquida and other elements that we could use!

I think that it is an awesome idea!

Cheers
canuck49
If we could do all that we wouldn't have too many technologcal barriers to overcome. It sounds simplistic to just find a world and put a gate on it but nothing's ever that simple.

Any planet that's suitable for human life that doesn't already have a gate on it likely doesn't have any for a very good reason. I just can't see us running into multiple earths without intelligent life, which no one else has a claim on, has everything we need, is geologically stable, that the ancients didn't see fit to include. It just defies logic. We should be lucky to find one.

Never mind the enormous undertaking in time, materials, technology (we don't have yet and would have to bargain for), it would take just to find such worlds. You can't exactly just wander around in the Daedalus and hope for the best; it's a big job.

It was a great idea when the ancients did it. They'd already developed intergalactic travel when they did it. For us to do that again, should not only be beyond our capabilities but unnecessary. It's not unlike earth today. It's much easier to keep the one we have in good condition than it is to go find a new one. And in SG we have a whole lot of worlds that already have gates and interesting people, cultures, and tech on them... much nicer than empty planets.

[happyclappy]

I THINK THAT IF THEY FOUND A GATE FACTORY AND COULD PLACE THEM in the void between earth and pegasus, they could just send a bunch of jumpers too and fro, would save the deady for a lot more eps :P

[JeBuSBrian]

That certainly is an interesting idea. Setting up a relay system of gates in the inter-galaxy void certainly would allow the smaller jumpers to go from galaxy to galaxy in what one would assume would be a more energy efficient manner than a galaxy to galaxy wormhole.

[MarshAngel]

That certainly is an interesting idea. Setting up a relay system of gates in the inter-galaxy void certainly would allow the smaller jumpers to go from galaxy to galaxy in what one would assume would be a more energy efficient manner than a galaxy to galaxy wormhole.
Interesting but not possible by the standards that they've laid down. A gate must be orbiting a planet/star in order for its position/address to be identified. Also, without something to orbit, gates in the enormous void would be drifiting. If that weren't enough, to be in reasonable proximity for a PJ vehicle without hyperdrive, they'd have to be fairly close together in which case, they'd all have the same address. But if that weren't enough, if this were possible and practical you could guarantee the ancients would have done it.

I think there are a few more reasons why this isn't possible. Can't remember all of them.

[JeBuSBrian]

I'm no wormhole physicist, so forgive my ignorance on the matter.

Why would any potential inter-galactic (IG) gates need to be closer than any normal set of gates? A PJ can gate to the next IG gate in line, pop out, dial up the next gate, rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

As for the necessity of a gate being bound to a celestial body... well, I can't refute that, but it seems rather arbitrary, scientifically. The point of the wormholes is to bridge 2 points in space-time, and while it can be affected by gravity, as evidenced in previous episodes, there's no indication that a celestial body is needed for a gate to function.

As for the position/address predicament, all I can really say about that is that the entire premise has been flawed since the movie. Basing gate addresses on a series of constellations never was a feasible idea to begin with. Stellar drift is an excellent example why not. I can't imagine the Ancients would have used such simple and flawed means for space-time coordination of wormholes. Nay. They equipped the gates with a means of communication with which they can update their coordinates (and it would appear, their operating system) regularly. I would put forth that, instead of the addresses being fixed to a stellar body, they are instead simply a pointer in memory to a location in space-time.

Hopefully you can shed some light on any fallacies in my reasoning. I certainly look forward to it.

[NakedJehutyV2]

the factory is still in yet an undiscovered part of atlantis hidden from sensors

[Wraith_Hunter]

I don't think that anyone is seeing the potential that this plot device could have.

Imagine that they could make new gates! They could make a whole new network that no one but their allies know about. World that are ripe with live, but are not occupied and even uncharted so no one will look for any activity there. Imagine the expansion that Earth could do and the secret bases and Deadulas factories that could be made! Imagine going to worlds that are full of naquida and other elements that we could use!

I think that it is an awesome idea!

Cheers
canuck49


The trouble here is that you have to be 100% certain that these planets aren't already knwon to other races. You could scan the planet for life & find nothing. Then after a few years a race returns back to use it as a sanctuary. A dangerous race could be in hibernation underneath the surface or in caves etc. Then there is always the fact that a race such as the Replicators before they were taken out in S8 could be flying close by & detect signals coming from the surface. Even Lucian Alliance or Goas'uld, Grace Aliens etc discovered the planet & either bombarded it from orbit or landed in their ships & took it over. Even an evil race using it as a hunting ground or dumping ground for their prey. The simple fact is that it's almost impossible to know the history of the planet. So that's why they built the SGC alternate bases inside mountains etc. They wouldn't need Daedalus factories because they need the matterials & technology in that great a suyplly, just to churn out that many ships that would be needed to have an off-world manufacturing factory. So unless they get the Asgard to give them their manufacturing tech & the skilled operators or knowledge in how to construct Asgard tech. Then it wouldn't be any better that what they have on Earth already. We already have saw in 'Covenant' that they have ships on their off-world bases, so they are obviously constructing them off planet as we speak.

The fact is there is no way to know that a planet is secure or not. A gateless one would be more remote, so less chance of people coming across it. However ones that could come across it will have ships & so would be more dangerous. Simply because you could use an IDC system & block all incoming traffic that isn't recognised.

They don't really have many allies nowadays. The Tok'ra wouldn't reveal valuable strategic info to them, so Jacob was forced to steal equipment for the SGC. The Jaffa are split with most not trusting the SGC. That coupled with what happens in the upcoming eps of SG-1 with them & Ba'al. Would make giving them anything a serious liability. The only ones that it could probably be safely given to would be the Asgard. Who no matter where they were could make it in mins via their ships.

There will be millions of planets in the MW that are capable of human life. You gotta figure that the ancients didn't get more than 10%/20% of the planets gated at the very most. So when you consider the plague that wiped out the life in the MW all those years ago, then combine that of worlds that were destroyed or enslaved by the Goa'uld over the millenia. I'm sure that there are 100's of Goa'uld like evil races out there that are doing the same thing just now.

The simplest & most cost effective way would be to either use already gated worlds as their off-world bases, which they are currently doing. The other method is to take a lifeless planet's gate & transport it to a new gateless planet. We know they can do this easily, simply because they done it with the SGC on a couple of ocassions from scratch with the original gate from Egypt. Then the one in Antartica coupled with the loaner one from the Russians. So planting them wouldn't present much of a problem.

You have to remember that even if you did find such a factory, it wouldn't simply be a matter of pressing a few buttons & that's it, nor would there be 100's of spare gates lying around. They have been studying less advanced tech since S1 & haven't done anything yet with it, So expecting them to be able to create their own gates instantly would be totally unrealistic.

Even to lay them in a route to Pegasus wouldn't really be of much use either. Think about it for a minute! It took 15 hours by PJ to the planet with the crashed Wraith cruiser, whereas Daedalus could make it in a few secs. So considering that it would have to travel great distances then it could potentially take many weeks, even months to get to Atlantis when there are great distances between one planet & the next.

[JeBuSBrian]

Despite your disjointed thoughts, I was able to make a few things out.

When you mentioned that it took 15 hours to get to the crashed Wraith ship, you forgot that the PJ travelled through normal space to reach it. Travelling thru IG gates would not be travelling through normal space. It would be as quick as travelling through any other system of gates, with the additional time spent exitting and re-entering every gate along the way.

As for the rest of it, I honestly couldn't tell what side you were arguing for, so I shall leave it all be.

[Wraith_Hunter]

They are anything but disjointed, I promise you on that! Besides who cares what you think as I wasn' even replying to what you posted. Was I...So next time don't butt in!

If you would read it properly & combine it with what I've already put before. The you will see that I think... I wouldn't say it was a silly idea to bring in as a storyline just unrealstic. That along with the fact of it being a complete & total waste of resources for the ancients, who seem to be a very meticilous race of beings. They were here for over 50 million years, so the gates will have been created & dispersed over long periods of time. The Alterrans weren't going to build a factory & having it lying totally unused for 100's/1000's years or even longer in some cases. That as a plotline wouldn't bring them anything that they can't currently get now or at least study. If they need spare gates, then simply life them from lifeless planets, if they need to research portable DHD's then use the PJ's as a template. That only leaves power, as seen in Atlantis, they used ZPM's for intergalactic dialling. Therefore unless it shows you how to create them then what's the point at all. Everybody already knows that they need ZPM's. So it would be better to use resources in actually tracking down any & all remaining ones in the galaxy. The ancients in the MW didn't rig all their gates up for this, so chances of finding ZPM related stuff in it, would be very, very slim indeed. Peagsus is the exact same, only the gate in Atlantis has the crystal for intergalactic dialling. That with the MKII gate system shows that if & when they done it, it was only through the one or two gates each way.

So long story short, they won't find anything that will really be of any use to them, that they currently can't get right now. They may learn more about the SG's themselves, however with them using more & more ships for travel these days, then what's the point in wasting years & large budgets for any experiments that they may setup & test.



Onto Pegasus now.

Firstly, You assume that they can hop from one to the next, to the next & so on, direct to Atlantis. However the person who posted it, said that it was to lay a new system of gates direct to Pegasus. What if there are problems, such as a Wraith planet in between or Wraith inhabiting the planet that the gate is on. Won't that severely screw you! Since they have raided every planet in the galaxy at one point or another, then none are safe unless it's protected by ascended ancients. So lets say you gate to one & get in. The Wraith are there & dial out. Then start to scan & sweep using the Darts, as well as firing. You either would need to land & hope they don't get you. Waiting it extremely dangerous. Especially if they are inhabiting the planet, so if you try to dial out. All they need to do is either dial out quicker or place Darts around the gate. You can't go anywhere, so the only way out is to fly normally through space. What good would that be, if the nearest planet, be that gated or not, is weeks or months away. You'll die long before you get there!

Hope that isn't too disjointed for you this time to comprehend...my dyslexic friend!

A SG factory would only be totally worthwhile if they can get larger gates that are enough to fit the Battle Cruisers through, this way they can place a few in each galaxy. Do a couple of hops between them & they are in the next galaxy in a matter of mins...hours at most. The power requirements wouldn't be too bad, if you consider that they won't be jumping intergaslactically direct. Instead it would be far shorter jumps in a number of steps. Considering the size of the gate, then they could place dozens of MKII's around it to give it power. Then use it only in extreme emergencies. Beats 18 days anytime.

See that wasn't too hard now was it Jeby!

[JeBuSBrian]

Actually, it was slightly easier to understand than your last post, and for that I thank you. However, it is still a long way from completely legible. ;) As for 'butting in', well... this is a forum is it not?

You mentioned the power requirements for IG dialing, saying that ZPMs were necessary for it. That is an excellent example why you would want shorter hops instead of an IG hop. If you can use normal power supplies to hop multiple times, it is far easier than procuring a ZPM for one large IG hop.

You might say "Well, if it was that easy to set up a relay of gates between galaxies, why didn't the Ancients do it?" My answer would be a very simple one. They didn't need to. The Ancients had the ability to create ZPMs to power both their IG ship drives, and the IG gate hops. From their point of view, it would be a waste of time and resources to setup such an IG network. We mere humans, however, are not yet capable of producing ZPMs, so shorter, less energy intensive uses of power would be more efficient for us.

And as for Wraith planets being in between, well, that's an issue of recon. Besides, the IG network wouldn't need to be in a straight line from Earth to Atlantis. Quite the contrary, it may be better to go out of the way to avoid possible detection of the IG gates. The safest gates will be those in the IG void. Ships don't generally travel thru it in normal space, thus the likelihood of any single gate being discovered is highly improbable. It is only the gates in each galaxy that have any real chance of being discovered. But once you're inside a galaxy, you can jump to any gate in that galaxy's network, so it is far less likely you will run into problems.

A few hundred gate jumps over a matter of hours definitely beats an 18 day trip. But I do agree with you that the ability to build larger gates, as practiced by the Ori, would be far superior to this method. But then, the Ori needed to control a black hole on each end to power it, which seems highly unlikely for Earth and its allies.

So you brought up the idea of setting up a relay of gates between galaxies, which is essentially what I've been saying the whole time. So, through your disjointed post you've come around to this side of the argument. Congratulations.

[MarshAngel]

I'm no wormhole physicist, so forgive my ignorance on the matter.

Why would any potential inter-galactic (IG) gates need to be closer than any normal set of gates? A PJ can gate to the next IG gate in line, pop out, dial up the next gate, rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

A.) There are dhds in the jumpers. These Dhds have an extremely long range. They automatically lock on to the dominant gate in a solar system
B.) only one gate can be active in a solar system with multiple planets. ie. If you had two gates in a system you can't specify, when dialing, which one the wormhole should go to. Whether this makes sense scientifically or not, those are the rules.
C.) a puddle jumper has no hyperdrives and can only go a fraction of the speed of light which limits their travel range significantly to a solar system and not beyond.
D.) Each gate would have to have no less than the distance of the dhd's dialing range which is about an entire solar system, or several hours travel time between each one.
E.) Being in a galactic void, how do you maintain that distance or specify an address? Gravity of planetary objects can keep a gate in place with only minor adjustments needed every now and then. How do you do that when there isn't so much as an asteroid?



As for the necessity of a gate being bound to a celestial body... well, I can't refute that, but it seems rather arbitrary, scientifically. The point of the wormholes is to bridge 2 points in space-time, and while it can be affected by gravity, as evidenced in previous episodes, there's no indication that a celestial body is needed for a gate to function.

There are many things on the show that don't make scientific sense but for the sake of consistency we need to follow the rules they've laid out. I think the reason they've set it up that way is because each planetary body/system is uniquely arranged and the gate system uses the arrangement of planets and stars to specify each gate's location in relation to the other. Which means every gate and DHD are interchangeable (very practical). If the gates were floating out in a void, at best you'd be able to lock unto one since they all have the same basic location ie. no stars, no planets, nothing to determine where exactly this gate is. the distance calculations would probably be hard to determine since it's neither in a galaxy, or a star system.


As for the position/address predicament, all I can really say about that is that the entire premise has been flawed since the movie. Basing gate addresses on a series of constellations never was a feasible idea to begin with. Stellar drift is an excellent example why not. I can't imagine the Ancients would have used such simple and flawed means for space-time coordination of wormholes. Nay. They equipped the gates with a means of communication with which they can update their coordinates (and it would appear, their operating system) regularly. I would put forth that, instead of the addresses being fixed to a stellar body, they are instead simply a pointer in memory to a location in space-time.

Flawed or not it's what we're working with and we can't alter the rules so they make sense for us. It is what it is and it provides you with the reason it can't be done.... because they said so... though not in so many words.

As for stellar drift, I think the gates are sharing information too, not about each other but about the status of their location. ie. Each gate is telling the other the new calculated distance between stellar bodies in the neighborhood. If a star disappears, it adjusts, etc. So while it may seem faulty to plan a system on things that constantly change it's actually very practical. Stars change slowly, which allows the gates time to adjust, makes them movable and interchangeable and self-adjusting, eliminating the need for human interference but making the need for stars and planets within scanning range absolute.

The location isn't really fixed. Only our dialing of it is the same. The constellation thing is silly and I think they'd like to forget it.


For more answers see this thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11823&highlight=multiple+gates+galaxy

[Kittoa]

Hopefully this thread isn't considered too old to kick back to the top...


Instead of a gate factory, I'd rather they discover a museum of sorts. Told in flashback it could chronicle the actual development of the first gate. From physics formulae to completion and first activation. Heck, have the first prototype gate sitting around there (non-functioning).

As far as I can see, an episode like this is perfect. We get some more history on the ancients, and possibly some aspects of their civilation, such as politics. I'm sure building the first gate was a staggering endevour, likely requiring the cooporation of everyone. And those worried that this might lead to a drastic change in power need't worry, it's not like tech specs and construction blueprints would be found. I was thinking something more along the lines of a documentary.

Just a stray latenight idea.

-Alex

[NakedJehutyV2]

it's in atlantis

[Blitz]

it's in atlantis

Your VERY repetitive.

And on topic, just as i wanna throw my mind into this delerious conversation - I'd like one gate built and then something happening, run out of power, smething breaks. Anything - but I'd wanna see Earth materials having to be used as the materials that SHOULD be used have run out.

This = the Gate being patchy or having different chevron colours or shapes...then they just, stick it somewhere :jack:

[NakedJehutyV2]

your point?

[Blitz]

My point is that your repetitive. Thats pretty much it :jack:

[Lord Jago]

Why does it have to be a Stargate factory. Many factorys i know of dont just make one product. A Car factory for example, doesnt make just one type of car, but many types, including all the panels and other stuff.

What if it was a Naquada refiner/manufactoring plant. Drop in the Ore and other such materials press what you want, wait five minutes and hey presto One stargate and DHD.
This would be also usfull if the factory made Drones and ZPM's. They had to come from some where after all, i doubt they were all Hand made LOL.

[creed462]

One problem would be we still don't know how to make them, we could get reliant on the factory, and never learn any more about how to make them W/o the factory

[NakedJehutyV2]

My point is that your repetitive. Thats pretty much it :jack:


so? and? therefor?

[LORD MONK]

Why don't we just ask the Nox where they get theirs. After all, that is where the last one was built.

[NakedJehutyV2]

what where?

[absmith]

As for the stargate factory, it was brought up in the Tech forum, and trashed pretty quickly. Is it a cool idea? Sure. Is it realistic? No way.
I don't think it was "trashed". :) I think it got a few people thinking. It is completely realistic, you just have to think big. http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=19188

Looks like the idea has hit a few other people too.. see these threads
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=9877
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=10293
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=9086
Think about it; if you build gates in a factory, say in Atlantis, then you have to get a gate (or many), then fly to where you want to drop them, then fly back to the factory to get more gates. The key is that you have to have already explored the entire galaxy, and know exactly where you want to place the gates in the first place.
There is no rule stating that a new gate couldn't come split in two (or 3 or 4) pieces and fit just fine through a gate as a unassembled unit. Put a gate and assembly device on your "delivery" ships, fly them around the galaxy dropping the assembled gates on all the planets you want. That solves your problem of having to always go back to the factory to pick up a gate.

I do agree that a PJ/SG factory would make for a cool ship story line too. See my original post about the old show Andromeda where the captain tells the ship AI (now Dr. Lam) "That's our entire offensive payload", and captain Hunt replies "We'll find you a nice asteroid field when we're done so you can make more."

[Merlin1701]

in total agreement with "Skyth"! The idea of a "stargate creation facility", sounds much better than factory, is the next logical step; only if it helps the viewing audience develop the understanding of the anciants.
How the gates are built?
Why the gates were built? (besides faster than hyperdrive transport)
Whats the true extent of the gate network?
How were the gates deployed?