Ori Vs Ancients

[Heaven]

what do you think? who are the bad guys?:)

I don't think the ancients are evil but it's possible they have a less than perfect backstory.
There are two crucial things we still don't know about the ancients:
what happened with the plague deal and why (if at all) they created humans in this galaxy.

the Ori on the other hand have already admitted they created the humans in their galaxy and that the ancients are shielding us.

I think the Ori religion is what they call the "true path" which is some kind of prophecy and they blame the ancients for forsaking it.

[BigGator5]

Return of the Harcesis Child Idea!! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=4814748#post4814748)

[Xmen583]

there is no way the ancients is evil, they're peaceful and want to help human, the ancients will one day return to help earth to fight again at the Ori

we may or may not able to find out if Ancients will come and help,

the ancients want the human from earth to find the lost city of atlantis, they believe that tauri is a fifth race and might able to defeat the wraith, goa'uld, even Ori.

im not sure if tauri is ready to be a fifth race.

[Iguana775]

I think it's a matter of perspective. the Ori may actually believe their BS after so many years of saying it. Also, the Ancients may have gotten pissed at the Ori and spanked them. that's why they think they are evil. dont know. Hopefully we find out and it looks like we will at some point.

[mindfire]

It would be a strange plot twist. Ever since season 2 when the Ancients were introduced as the gate builders they've been portrayed as being good, and along comes season 9-10 and they say they are evil. I truly believe it's the Ori that are evil.

[NakedJehutyV2]

ori they force people........

you know

[AGateFan]

It would be a strange plot twist. Ever since season 2 when the Ancients were introduced as the gate builders they've been portrayed as being good, and along comes season 9-10 and they say they are evil. I truly believe it's the Ori that are evil.

It also would be a re-write of show cannon. From all we know of the ancients it would be very, very, very tricky to now write them as Evil. I mean there could be a branch of them that were evil but Oma wasn’t evil, nor Orlan, nor Janus or any of the counsel (standoffish yes, evil no). The lessons taught to Shifu were not evil. So now the entire race is evil? I don’t buy it. If it happens in the show it will either be the cleverest written show in the history of shows or it will be a bunch of crp. Most likely they won’t go there, but who knows with their new fascination with "darkening" things.

[NakedJehutyV2]

point of view

[grimleaper]

Think of this!!!

History is always writen by the victor! true! in OUR stargate universe the Ancients can control our destiny (as "lower" beings) if they want to! for example: ori = fire = bad/hell/etc. Daniel Jackson commented on this aswell!

One thing stargate has put across is that the Ancients do not interfere i life of lower beings!

ONE QUESTION! ANCIENTS know of the Ori's plan (as from s09e11), no matter how advanced someone is, they would not let someone beat them using "lower" beings! That would be like the Western world letting "ants" (for example) destroy the because bin laden trained them so??? Hmmmm???

[mindfire]

They need to have a story where the SGC asks the Asgard or the Nox what the Ancients were like, since the Asgard and the Nox actually knew them.

[cafine_us]

While I think making the Ancients evil would be a bit of a stretch, it would certainly be interesting to see a bit of darker back story for them, like a horrible mistake that they tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to remedy, with consequences still existing today.

[NakedJehutyV2]

yeah that'd be cool but not till s10

[JanusAncient]

What if Oma is Ori, she has never said, at least to my memory that she is an Ancient. When the Ori made the Prior in Avalon, Part 2, there energy looked remarkably similar to the Ancients.

It is true that the Ori force people to believe, but why do this, merely for the minimal power that lower beings can give? Even Orlin said that it takes massive amounts of humans relinquishing their will, to have a measureable effect.

Why hate the Ancients so much, if all they did was stray from the path, why follow them into different galaxies bent on their destruction for that reason alone? The Ancients don't force, they don't interfere, but they do allow worship, they say because of free will.

These Ancients aren't the Alterans that left the Ori galaxy millions of years ago. Maybe the peaceful ones we've come to know, aren't like the ones the Ori are talking about, the evil, manipulative Alterans that evolved alongside the Ori.

[NakedJehutyV2]

umm the alterrans are the ancients. oma isn't ori. they prolly wanna kill alterrans for the MW.

[the fifth man]

While I think making the Ancients evil would be a bit of a stretch, it would certainly be interesting to see a bit of darker back story for them, like a horrible mistake that they tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to remedy, with consequences still existing today.

I agree, that would be interesting to see. I do think the Ori are the baddies of the two, for obvious reasons, but the Ancients aren't saints. I'm sure there is a lot of bad things we don't know of that they've been behind. Afterall, they were heavy into science. And we all know that both good and bad always comes from scientific discoveries.

[BigGator5]

umm the alterrans are the ancients. oma isn't ori. they prolly wanna kill alterrans for the MW.

Ancients does not equal Alterans (spelled with one "r"), because in "Threads" Oma said that the Ancients are made up many races.

[NakedJehutyV2]

i see no proof of that. the ancients are the alterrans. anyone now ascended is not an ancient after ascension.

[The Engineer]

Think of this!!!

History is always writen by the victor! true! in OUR stargate universe the Ancients can control our destiny (as "lower" beings) if they want to! for example: ori = fire = bad/hell/etc. Daniel Jackson commented on this aswell!

One thing stargate has put across is that the Ancients do not interfere i life of lower beings!

ONE QUESTION! ANCIENTS know of the Ori's plan (as from s09e11), no matter how advanced someone is, they would not let someone beat them using "lower" beings! That would be like the Western world letting "ants" (for example) destroy the because bin laden trained them so??? Hmmmm???

Very good observation. History is writen by conquerers and the losers are forced to learn it. No matter how democratic a state may be inside its borders, outside its borders may be like Ceazar.
Sometimes the past is more impredictible than the future. As for the loosers: VAE VICTIS!

While I think making the Ancients evil would be a bit of a stretch, it would certainly be interesting to see a bit of darker back story for them, like a horrible mistake that they tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to remedy, with consequences still existing today.

A bit of a strech no, it will be like real world, more like a chain of horrible mistakes but not viewed as ones.
Targetting civilians (unarmed civilians) during the Second World War was not an issue on both sides. (London, Awschwitz, Dresda, Odessa, Bucharest, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - a few examples).

[schweinsty]

While I don't think the Ancients could turn out to be 'evil' - if they did, the show wouldn't get renewed again, most likely - can you imagine the fans? - but maybe they haven't always been very very good. They are very powerful, yes, but being powerful implies neither great evil nor great goodness. It would be interesting if the writers were to explore the question (go'auld aside) if there is any race that is either pure evil or pure goodness. It all depends on which side you started out on, I think - for the most part. For example, while, say, the members of the SGC would be easy to persuade that all the Ori were evil, normal, unascended people who were born in a galaxy of the Ori would probably believe with all their hearts that Ancients were a sort of abomination. One race is not necessarily all good or all evil; there are people who choose to serve good more than bad - such as Gerak, in the end - and there are people who choose to serve bad more than good - like the prior that caused the plague. Oma and Orlin - they are Ancients who try to do good; but remember all the 'people' in the diner in Threads? Were they being good because they refused to break the rules, or was refusing to break the rules to help humanity bad? Some society might say that to sacrifice the life of a loved one to save a nation was the epitome of perfection - but another society might say it was the worst sort of evil there could be. How are we to judge what is 'good' and what is 'bad'? As imperfect beings, humans can judge what is more powerful, and do what they believe, by the rules of their moral code, standard, credo, to be good - and thus, perhaps, they are good. But to judge one moral code against another and say 'this one is the 'good' one becuase I agree with it; that is 'bad' because its tenets go against everything I have been taught is right' - that would be a presumption we should know we are incapable of making.
Oh dear. Sorry - didn't mean to go on a diatribe, but there it is. Well, in effect, I think that the Ori are villains; but don't be surprised if the Ancients turn out to be slightly less perfect than we used to think them.

[Jakebbq]

the nox are purely good they will not harm another living being or help another harm someone they will not fight even to protect themselves and they will heal a person no matter what he or she may have done