S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

i guess it depends on where you hang out at. Many of the groups and lists that used to be vibrant and alive are 'dead' now. 10 posts a day instead of the 50-100.

fanfic, which used to thrive, isn't as much anymore. ARchives that used to have 50 fic a week, now have a bare handful. People that i know that used to play in the fandom are gone, they've moved onto other shows

yes, we do have some voting in polls...but in all honesty given examples like the camelot poll, i have to wonder if it's really representative of viewers or of folks with something to prove. I find it very hard to believe that many times the normal number of voters suddenly show up to catch the finale of a show they didn't used to watch or vote in polls for

[Skydiver]

i went and looked at the polls

avalon 8601
av 2 5953
origin 5556
ttb 4681
tptb 4406
beachhead 5506
EDM 5622
babylon 4377
prototype 4325
4th 1 4915
4th 2 5808
collateral 4460
ripple effect 6317
stronghold 4141
ethon 5312
OTG 4984
scoruge 2525
arthur's mantle 4814
crusade 4896
camelot 18858

and i scanned season 8. it started out with around 6-8000 votes for the premiere and went down to around a thousand in some places but over all averaged 3-5000 voters

so what does this say? well i'm sure some would love to interpret as the fantastical influx of viewers drawn by the magicalness that is the fantastic and original ori arc and the pentultimate episode of the show

however, given my glass is half empty philosophy, and my supreme cynicism i'm more inclined to think that a bunch of fans got together and figured out how to 'beat' the poll and artificially inflate the numbers. (bet there's some kids out there with very sore mouse fingers...either that or one heck of a glitch in the database)

maybe i'll be surprised in a few weeks if scifi releases that camelot did a stellar 3.4 in the ratings...but i also tend to think if that were the truth, they woulda already bragged and it'd already be a part of thier s10 promotion (join us in july for the addition of the character you've made the most popular in the show's ten year record breaking history...yadda, yadda)

internet polls ain't worth the electrons they're made of. And, quite often, they are nothing more than fans' ways to alter reality to suit themselves

despite scifi's hopes adn dreams, ratings for the show have not skyrocketed wtih the addition of BB and CB. They've wobbled around rather sluggishly and suggesting, to those that wish to interpret things this way, that they and the alteration of the show's premise is not the ratings goldmine that skiffy thougth it was.

[chocdoc]

The real question is...how many is that? From the looks of the polls run here at Gateworld, there still seem to be a lot of people enamored with the show.

Since Stargate started on SciFi, there seems to be a base of people that watch the show no matter what. Sure, last year was a "high ratings mark", but this year ain't that much different ratings-wise than Season 8 or Season 7.

It appears last year, the show attracted more casual viewers to achieve those higher ratings, but it's hard to find solid numbers to prove the "longtimers" have gone away in droves.

I think you meant season 6 and 7? Because, yes, Season 8 did do quite well in the ratings with an average of 2.1. So, clearly season 9's ratings are not very close to season 8's ratings.

But even if you compare season 7's second half with season 9's second half so far (can't count Camelot yet and it may have done quite well), season 7's second half had an average of 1.9 and season 9's second half so far has an average of 1.7. Not as much of a difference, but still I'm wondering if stargate SG-1 has lost some of its loyal audience. Or maybe it has lost some of its causal viewers.

Either way, season 9 didn't seem to wow the causual viewer with its "new direction." Maybe things will start to improve ratings wise in season 10. And maybe the cliffhanger this year did well (I liked the last part of it alot, so I hope that when season 10 starts, the ratings will go up again). I think the show is struggling for lots of reasons---its trying to find its legs. Just my opinion--I think they went too far in their new direction and lost viewers, and the BB and CB fans aren't enough to compensate for the ratings (I should say the WRITING for me has been very inconsistent).

[smurf]

The best indicator of whether longtime fans have been lost due to the changes is going to be the ratings next year (ignoring the statistical blip that the 200th episode will be).
From this long time fan's point of view, my lack of interest in season 9 & 10 is mostly due to the disallusionment from season 8. Once I saw that season 9 wasn't going to pick up in quality there didn't seem much point in spending chunks of my time watching it.
If S10 doesn't find it's feet immediately there will be many who just think it's more of the same of what they didn't like in S9 and, like me, stop watching.

For long time fans it's a delayed reaction, because they stick with it for longer than they should do.

[RyantheGreat]

I do think S10 will be the year the decides the fate of SG1. It'll all sink or swim on this season, and on whether SG1 can survive without RDA. It barely survived without MS.

S9 introduced so many new ideas and characters, Ori, etc, that a lot of people hung around just to see what happens next. Now all the groundwork has been set up, and S10 won't be able to blame new characters and RDA leaving.

[majorsal]

Hmm...that was an interesting read. Most of the concerns revolve around Vala and Mitch and how they're incorporated into the show, which is a concern of mine as well. Mitch was brought on as the leader, even though he has no offworld experience and has already made (IMO) some foolish mistakes. The team's apparent response? "Whatever." They don't seem to have strong feelings one way or the other regarding Mitch - he's merely there. No one has questioned his ability to lead. No one has wondered why Sam isn't in charge. They just accept whatever plot changes TPTB toss their way.

Vala will be brought back and will likely be made a member of the offworld team even though she lies, steals, risks Daniel's life, and insults the govt guys who write the paychecks. The team's likely response? "Whatever." No one will question her presence because TPTB have already decided to put here there.

can you imagine any of this crap happening if rda was not only still on, but still an executive producer? no bloody way.




sally

[majorsal]

see, i can't make up my mind which is worse; vala or mitchell???

since my fave character is sam, and since both mitchell and vala infringe on sam's territory... i really don't know which one i'd get rid of, if *i* had the power.




sally

[LaCroix]

can you imagine any of this crap happening if rda was not only still on, but still an executive producer? no bloody way.




sally

In my opinion I think RDA knows what's been happening with the show with internet sources, media reviews, or someone close who may work at Bridge. (that last part is pure speculation on my part)

But one thing that really stikes me as odd is that,- IF- RDA were to any part of this S10 you know that advertisment would be spread across here, Sony, and Skiffy pages.

As I've said before, they would be saying "the show hasn't jumped the shark. RDA is back for an episode this season".


YMMV

[kazzyk]

The GW polls are no way accurate.

I am one of those fans that do not have a favorite character. I like them all--I was sorry to see RDA go but just as when MS left all I hoped for was that the show continue.

It was the team dynamics that I cared about and that is what kept me watching even with major changes.
I took the bad with the good (there was more good) and I am not hard to please--in other words--I even liked the clip shows lol.

Stargate was different and its difference is what made the show. I went into S9 with hope even though I felt strongly that the show should have ended with S8.

As S9 progressed I became more and more appalled at what I was seeing. I was baffled at how fast a good show could be brought down. Once I realized I was hanging on to any crumb thrown out that almost resembled Stargate I had to ask myself why i was doing that and I had to stop.

I still find it hard to wrap my brain around what TPTB have done. I simply do not get it but I guess it really doesnt matter because the show is over for me.

My story is not in anyway unique and so I have to conclude there are many more who have done the same and the numbers reflect this.

[Skydiver]

see, i can't make up my mind which is worse; vala or mitchell???

since my fave character is sam, and since both mitchell and vala infringe on sam's territory... i really don't know which one i'd get rid of, if *i* had the power.




sally

I think that mitch can still be redeemed.

sure, he's been unevenly written, however, handled correctly, they can still turn him into a competant officer and appropriate leader - rather than the goofish buffoon he's often written as

vala???? I'm afraid that i don't have much faith in them giving a good reason for vala's sure to come sudden change of heart

the boys that write this show are incapable of writing a female unless she's

a) the naughty rogue
b) half of a pair

Sam, for the most part, has not been decetnly written since Brad left the show at the end fo season 6. RCC seems obsessed with pairing sam up with everyone but the mailman now that rda is gone. We even saw that in s9 which was a near endless parade of Sam & ______.

Will they give a good reason for vala's change of heart? I doubt it'll be anything more meaningful than the 'love of a good man'....

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

<snip>

Will they give a good reason for vala's change of heart? I doubt it'll be anything more meaningful than the 'love of a good man'....

It depends....do the Ori have epidurals???

I agree, I don't have much faith in the writers ability to write female characters - another route they could take besides the 'good man' approach would be the 'love of a good child' approach. Frankly, I think the latter is more believable....Firstly, he may be a good guy but her relationship with hubby is based on her acting like something she's not in order to survive. Secondly, he's turned into a wingnut that would kill her if he really knew what she was. The love of a good man thing would be so unbelievably unbelievable but at this point nothing the writers do with Vala would surprise me - its just a matter of how lame will it be? Haha, lame - get it, get it? Maybe hubs will see the light and stop killing in the name of the Ori....?

Maybe they'll try to pull off the nearly dying in childbirth while hubs is off to kill unbelievers.....maybe it will be the 'love of a good child'...who knows. How could a child of the Ori be good....so I guess the chances to redeem Vala are indeed slim....

Whatever they do they will probably try to accomplish it pretty quickly, which I would also find disappointing. I'd like Vala's redemption to be an arc of its own if its going to exist - not some one episode "now Vala's good" cr*p.

[Skydiver]

It depends....do the Ori have epidurals???
.

snerk

Whatever they do they will probably try to accomplish it pretty quickly, which I would also find disappointing. I'd like Vala's redemption to be an arc of its own if its going to exist - not some one episode "now Vala's good" cr*p.

they're already pretty much doing this. Six months in the Ori galaxy and playing happy housewife with TOmin and she's all subdued and well meaning

given that Vala spent untold decades/centuries as a host, and has spent her time since being degoaulded as a rogue, i see her change of heart as nothing more than a survival tactic. she's a manipulator. that's how she survives, that's part of who she is

so, presuming the 'worst case scenario' plays out, she's just gonna have her little epiphany and become all altruistic and for the good of the universe by episode 2 so that she can fit in iwth the team?

People don't change that quickly. And i have serious doubts that her change of heart will ever be fully explained. it'll just happen

To me, a large part of the issues settle with the writers.

from all information, it seems that the writing was on the wall for vala to join the show way back in the beginnings of season nine. (the now deleted blog entry where it is said that, knowing that the soonest she'd be back in season 10, claudia timed her pregnancy to work with taping)

so they knew that they were going to bring her back, be it as a regular or as a guest.

but they also knew and have admitted that, Vala the Rogue is unsustainable on a regular basis. She's just too much to exist within the confines of the universe. And they have admitted that they know/knew that they'd have to tone her down

So why didn't they do that from the get go? Why didn't they write her as a believable character from teh beginning? Why did they allow themselves to be distracted by accentuating her rogueish behaviors and actions and having so much fun with her that, for many, they destroyed the character?

Why, if the plan was there in some way, shape or form to have her join the show a year ago, why didn't they set the groundwork in a more believable way to make the character more acceptible?


IMHO, these boys got too distracted by having fun and playing the fool and larking off that they didn't realize/didn't care that, in their having fun, they were destroying the very characters they were trying to create.

Cameron has suffered from teh same thing, just to a lesser extent. Cameron gets written to appeal to someone's Marty Sue attitude and gets portrayed with an inconsistency that better fits a 'guest' at a loony bin and then then writers wonder why people jsut can't see how great and wonderful and super he is.

umm, cause you have yet to SHOW us

The boys that are penning the show need to stop getting distracted by the flash in the pan 'let's have fun with.....' idea and sit down and take a long hard look at what they're doing. They need to look at the long term ramifications of thier actions adn writing.

they're not doing that and frankly havent' done that since RCC took over the show.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

snerk



they're already pretty much doing this. Six months in the Ori galaxy and playing happy housewife with TOmin and she's all subdued and well meaning

given that Vala spent untold decades/centuries as a host, and has spent her time since being degoaulded as a rogue, i see her change of heart as nothing more than a survival tactic. she's a manipulator. that's how she survives, that's part of who she is

so, presuming the 'worst case scenario' plays out, she's just gonna have her little epiphany and become all altruistic and for the good of the universe by episode 2 so that she can fit in iwth the team?

People don't change that quickly. And i have serious doubts that her change of heart will ever be fully explained. it'll just happen

To me, a large part of the issues settle with the writers.

from all information, it seems that the writing was on the wall for vala to join the show way back in the beginnings of season nine. (the now deleted blog entry where it is said that, knowing that the soonest she'd be back in season 10, claudia timed her pregnancy to work with taping)

so they knew that they were going to bring her back, be it as a regular or as a guest.

but they also knew and have admitted that, Vala the Rogue is unsustainable on a regular basis. She's just too much to exist within the confines of the universe. And they have admitted that they know/knew that they'd have to tone her down

So why didn't they do that from the get go? Why didn't they write her as a believable character from teh beginning? Why did they allow themselves to be distracted by accentuating her rogueish behaviors and actions and having so much fun with her that, for many, they destroyed the character?

Why, if the plan was there in some way, shape or form to have her join the show a year ago, why didn't they set the groundwork in a more believable way to make the character more acceptible?


IMHO, these boys got too distracted by having fun and playing the fool and larking off that they didn't realize/didn't care that, in their having fun, they were destroying the very characters they were trying to create.

Cameron has suffered from teh same thing, just to a lesser extent. Cameron gets written to appeal to someone's Marty Sue attitude and gets portrayed with an inconsistency that better fits a 'guest' at a loony bin and then then writers wonder why people jsut can't see how great and wonderful and super he is.

umm, cause you have yet to SHOW us

The boys that are penning the show need to stop getting distracted by the flash in the pan 'let's have fun with.....' idea and sit down and take a long hard look at what they're doing. They need to look at the long term ramifications of thier actions adn writing.

they're not doing that and frankly havent' done that since RCC took over the show.

Yup, I think Vala the Space Dominatrix "flash in the pan"ts - er, I mean pan - distracted them from serious story writing, character and plot development....so sad for a show where those were strengths....

[Strix varia]

I think that mitch can still be redeemed.

Not for me. I missed Collateral Damage when it showed during the regular season and watched it for the first time Wednesday night. That was the final nail in the coffin. I grind my teeth whenever he's on screen.

Vala, I think, could grow on me with good writing (which I'm no longer sure they are capable of), but I don't think they can turn my opinion around on Mitchell. Ben sounds like a great guy, but his character... ugh... the word "loathing" comes to mind.

Given the supersprog story and the renewal of the Vala/Daniel show that will start off season 10, I really don't anticipate making it through to the end of the season. I think the divorce will be just a matter of paperwork by episode 4, if things go as I anticipate. I might tune in if it looks like there will be a Sam-centric ep later on, but SG-1 ended after season 8, and the drivel they replaced it with isn't worthy of my loyalty.

[Strix varia]

Vala won't be redeemed by her husband. Vala will be redeemed by her interactions with Daniel, and how she deals with her daughter.

Vala and Daniel are the magic couple, and TPTB are going to keep them together as much as possible. PU was such a popular ep that they will do everything they can to keep that chemistry up and play on it. Vala's Ori husband will either play the foil, die quickly, or just disappear from the story entirely (which seems rather probable giving the writing of this season... after all, who cares about continuity?). His love for Vala may redeem HIM, but it won't play much of a factor in Vala's redemption, I think. That will have to come from Daniel.