S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ToasterOnFire]

Haven't you heard, TOF? A real fan would keep watching even if an ep featured Wally going through the gate in his boxers. A real fan doesn't care about content, they just care that they're watching Stargate!

Massive snark about those fans who dictate who is and who isn't an imaginary "real fan" aside, I have a feeling that the Nielsen ratings don't reflect said "real fans." The small amount of hardcore fans will stick by the show no matter what happens, but the majority of casual fans will probably turn elsewhere if the stories and characters remain mediocre and the ratings will drop even more. Some posters are already attributing the drop in ratings in s9 to shows like "Dancing with the Stars" FCOL! If SG1 is really losing its audience to this sort of reality drivel, it says a lot about the decreasing quality of SG1.

[Zoser]

Haven't you heard, TOF? A real fan would keep watching even if an ep featured Wally going through the gate in his boxers. A real fan doesn't care about content, they just care that they're watching Stargate!

All hail TPTB. Maybe we should worship them like the Ori - maybe they are the Ori. I bet they can see what's in my mind! Someone douse the flames, help me!!

[AGateFan]

Season 9 has mercifully closed out. I have no interest in season 10.
I will give season 3 of Atlantis a try however as that show is still entertaining and I still care about the characters. But I just have the sinking feeling that SGA will be dragged down with SG-1.

[kazzyk]

Am I wrong in thinking that running promos of S10 is earlier than normal?
One more question--does anyone think that TPTB know SG is in trouble?

I too hope that SGA does not go down with that sinking ship.

[Skydiver]

all they might know is that ratings aren't as strong as they were, but there were pleny of things to blame it on, the olympics, big 12 basketball, sunspots

i don't think they know or care that some don't like the new direction
a) there are plenty of folks that do. bringing claudia in full time now means that there will be an influx of scapers that, at least initially, will have infinite patience and tolerance because it will allow them to see two of thier favored actors together again
b) these new fans are very vocal and loud, and personally, i don't think tptb give a fig about the ones they are losing. the only way they will care is if the new fans don't outnumber the old ones or don't stick around once they realize that stargate is not farscape redux...but by then the season will be half over or more and it won't matter

scifi will also promote the stuffings out of the show, and thier promotion willbe heavily, heavily skewed towards ben and claudia and will likely mention farscape. they're all that matters to skiffy now, just as the new farscape fans are all that matters

[keshou]

Am I wrong in thinking that running promos of S10 is earlier than normal?
One more question--does anyone think that TPTB know SG is in trouble?

I too hope that SGA does not go down with that sinking ship.

I remember last year during the Moebius season finale they showed some promos for S9 of SG-1. Remember Ben in his dress blues stroking the gate? I was so excited when I saw that promo because I was excited about him joining the show. So they did it last season as well.

I think now they're going to be advertising the addition of Claudia Black as a full-time member of the cast - that's the big "news". It will probably pull in some viewers to "sample" the first few episodes.

Is SG-1 in trouble? I don't know what they need (ratings wise) to keep the product on the air and make money. I have noticed that there was a lot of competition this summer and all the Friday night shows took a hit. If it was just SG-1 I'd think the "old warhouse" was down for the count. With all three shows softening a bit I don't know.

Even people that I normally think of as prospective scifi viewers (like my brother-in-law) got hooked on Dancing With the Stars. It was something of a phenomenon. *I* even watched it one night because my mother was going on and on about the show.

It will be interesting to see the ratings for Camelot and Allies, with both the Olympics and Dancing With the Stars being removed from the competitive arena.

Last year Moebius Pt 2 rated a 2.4 and Seige (for SGA) logged in at 2.2 I'd be surprised if either Camelot or Allies reach those numbers.

[AGateFan]

I remember last year during the Moebius season finale they showed some promos for S9 of SG-1. Remember Ben in his dress blues stroking the gate? I was so excited when I saw that promo because I was excited about him joining the show. So they did it last season as well.

I think now they're going to be advertising the addition of Claudia Black as a full-time member of the cast - that's the big "news". It will probably pull in some viewers to "sample" the first few episodes.

Is SG-1 in trouble? I don't know what they need (ratings wise) to keep the product on the air and make money. I have noticed that there was a lot of competition this summer and all the Friday night shows took a hit. If it was just SG-1 I'd think the "old warhouse" was down for the count. With all three shows softening a bit I don't know.

Even people that I normally think of as prospective scifi viewers (like my brother-in-law) got hooked on Dancing With the Stars. It was something of a phenomenon. *I* even watched it one night because my mother was going on and on about the show.

It will be interesting to see the ratings for Camelot and Allies, with both the Olympics and Dancing With the Stars being removed from the competitive arena.

Last year Moebius Pt 2 rated a 2.4 and Seige (for SGA) logged in at 2.2 I'd be surprised if either Camelot or Allies reach those numbers.

I need to live in a different time\planet\universe because I really cannot even grasp my mind around how anyone even could possibly hear the name and think "wow this is a good idea" let alone sit down and watch it. It just sounds like a big joke, like a parody or something... but I know people like it. Oh, well, I guess that’s my problem with Stargate. A show that was once IMHO great and awesome has now turned into one of these bad parodies for consumption by the masses (though it will be curious to see if the masses actually show up).

It kinda reminds me of a this type of situation.
You have a friend, he’s a really cool great friend who you love dearly but pretty much everyone else doesn’t know exist or doesn’t treat well. Then one day he does something that attracts attention from the media and the kwel people. Then everyone jumps on the band wagon saying he's great and he's awesome... but they also demand he changes, subtly at first but changes are required, to stay Kwel he would need to become more like them. If not they end up not thinking he is so great and awesome anymore. Because they didn’t really like "him" they like the concept of being on the bandwagon and getting fame "from" him. What they really want is for "him" to be like "them".

Sometimes these people don't change and they stay the same cool great friend you always knew and they go on with their lives. Popularity comes and it goes and they are always who they are. Sometimes they get caught up in all the hype and try desperately to keep their new Kwel friends. But in the end they almost always fail because the fact is the Kwel people never really like who they "were" just the concept of "what they perceived them to be" and what they could "suck" out of him.

I'm sure people will turn this around and say that I want Stargate to be something other then what it is, and I guess in a since that is true. I want it to be what it had always been for 8 years, even when the kwel kids didn’t know it existed. I will never get that now. Its path has been set and the kwel kids will suck it dry until there’s nothing left and then they will discarded it and people will forget about it. Except for people like me who in, 10-20-30 years, will still pick up our S1-8 DVDs and still proclaim it one of the best sci-fi shows ever on. Not that many will notice since all the Kwel kids will have moved on to sucking something else dry and proclaiming it to be great and awesome.

[binkpmmc]

a) there are plenty of folks that do. bringing claudia in full time now means that there will be an influx of scapers that, at least initially, will have infinite patience and tolerance because it will allow them to see two of thier favored actors together again

I don't know Sky - they promoted the h@ll out of BB and CB for S9 and I have to believe they did not get the ratings bonanza they expected especially with their bright shiny new "star", I believe that they expected a lot more from their new star. In fact I am actually surprised at the loss of ratings so quickly, down to 1.5 and 1.6s after only 14 episodes (the Olympics were a ratings disaster for NBC and they know it, plus Winter Olympics are never as popular as Summer and in summer 2004, during part one of S8, SG1 turned in 1.8 (against opening ceremonies), 1.8 and 2.1 (against closing ceremonies) -- these were pretty good numbers against the Summer Olympics - the more popular of the two olympic games in the US).

The fact that in S9 they lost pretty big swaths of viewers for these ratings challenged and US STAR challenged Olympics - and which were pretty soundly beaten by other network competition - just says to me that the fans, including any new ones they may have enticed with their shiny new star and cheesy caricature, are not invested in SG1 and the ratings are showing their vulnerability especially if some of the cr@p that is on network TV can drag fans away from SG1. (Personally when I am home now on Friday I watch Ghost Whisperer and I borrow a tape of SG1 from a friend - I do not want my TV tuned to skiffy at this point.) It seems that many of the BB/CB/FS fans they may have brought in were not overly impressed with the show and were not hooked and I have to wonder how many of then will actually be back or invested in S10.

The 1.6s that OTG and Scourge received are .5 off of what Reckoning 1 and 2 received same time last year (both received 2.1) -- those are not numbers that would fill me with comfort if I were one of TPTB or network suits (if I am reading ratings info correctly this represents a loss of over 760,000 viewers, nothing to sneeze at, IMO).

I do know that advertisiers are promised a certain ratings percentage when they commit to payment of advertising for a show and somehow I doubt that SG1 made that commitment in S9 if the ratings they were promised were based on what S8 brought in coupled with what I believe was probably wildly overexpectation on the numbers of new fans from the FS camp. (If the ratings commitment is not met then the network must pay back the advertisers and from what I understand that comes in credits, etc.)

It will be interesting to see what the budgets end up looking like next year because I have to believe that, with the numbers S9 brought in, the advertisers will be looking for cheaper advertising time on SG1 and SGA - not sure about BSG since it is so heavily advertised and gets so much press from TV Guide and the like. Perhaps, if the budgets take a hit, it will be back to a lot of earth based nonsense for S10 which will just make the season worse than I already expect it to be, it may also spell fewer really kewl bombs and booms so the new viewers that seem to be blown away by that stuff will just be bored out of their skulls and jump ship with the rest of us. There are so many ways S10 can tank I think it will, and it will not be just the continuation of the bad writing with sci-fi cliches and cheese dragging it down.

[Skydiver]

they've very much done it to themselves.

they go for the shallow and quick and easy. which is quick and easy and they can bang out a script in a day and a half

but beause it's shallow and quick and easy, it has no depth, no substance, no lasting impression

so it's easily forgotten adn easily missed. since the show is predicitible and teh only real uncertainty is what will be the homage of the week, well there's not much to entice folks to tune in

the ratings are showing that.

will they listen and address the root issue and do what is harder to do, tweaking the show back to the quality it used to be?

i doubt it

they'll keep going for hte quick and easy fix, which has been and will be 'big named quest star of the week' to draw folks in. along iwth gimick of the week ('a very special episode of blossom' - for those that remember that)

imho, they are underestimating the intelligence and perception of your average viewer. they think that cool sfx and ships will draw folks in. and itmight draw a few in, but no matter how pretty the wrapping paper is, if the box is empty, folks will leave it behind and move onto the next prettily wrapped box

[majorsal]

The problem with Stargate now is the same problem (IMO) that plagued Farscape in its last season: sensationalism and "shock value" are subbed in for plot and character development. Things don't happen because they're logical to the plot- in fact, most of the time they're completely illogical- things happen because it's "cool" or "controversial" or because TPTB are fulfilling their pathetic fanboy wet dreams. Same thing for the characters; they do things which are COMPLETELY against everything they've stood for simply because it's more exciting or because it moves the story from point A to point B.

Intelligence went out the window a long time ago. So did believeability. And continuity. It's a random hash of useless crap, now. My opinion.

i'm curious, shadow, when did 'you' start seeing a prob with the stargate?

for me, i started seeing 'inklings' of probs in the fifth season, but it wasn't with the stories being told, but 'how' they were being told. but i saw the real probs take hold in season 7. and then get worse as time went on.


sally

[majorsal]

Haven't you heard, TOF? A real fan would keep watching even if an ep featured Wally going through the gate in his boxers. A real fan doesn't care about content, they just care that they're watching Stargate!

oh, and don't forget, they care about SPACE SHIPS! yes, space ships and space battles. and sex starved characters!






sally

[keshou]

I need to live in a different time\planet\universe because I really cannot even grasp my mind around how anyone even could possibly hear the name and think "wow this is a good idea" let alone sit down and watch it. It just sounds like a big joke, like a parody or something... but I know people like it.

LOL.....the first time I heard about the show it sounded like the worst idea ever. I think my brother-in-law (who's what I would consider a "casual" scifi fan) mainly started watching "Dancing" because my sister (SO not a scifi fan) got hooked. Men at the office seemed very taken with that tall blond lady wrestler with the long legs. Anyhoo.....the one time I watched it I found it inoffensive, if not intellectually challenging. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Seemed like something kids would probably like and was something families could watch together - there's so little to choose from in that arena these days. It didn't "hook" me. Although I admit I got hooked on American Idol for one season.

Oh, well, I guess that’s my problem with Stargate. A show that was once IMHO great and awesome has now turned into one of these bad parodies for consumption by the masses (though it will be curious to see if the masses actually show up).

I certainly think it used to be MUCH better - especially in the 3rd -6th seasons. S1 was pretty cheesy at times. But as much as I love it I never considered it "awesome" in the sense it was cutting edge scifi with breathtaking special effects or intricate plots. It was a great cast, great characters, led by RDA's Jack. The best lead character in a scifi show in a long time. SG-1 had a neat twist being set in the current day military, with the tie-in to ancient mythology. And the Goauld were really a pretty cool foe - especially in the early seasons. The show was very consistent - with a winning formula that was (mostly) fun to watch every week.

I just think they decided to move the show in a direction in an effort to "freshen" it up but failed to "freshen up" the writing. I think the whole Arthurian/Merlin thing is rather hokey. And the Ori don't interest me much either. Make Anubis look like a villain with rare depth

And even though RDA's heart and soul wasn't in it the last couple of season, I miss Jack a lot. More than I thought I would. The "team as family" feel is lacking these days, imo.

Well....as I said, I'm really curious about the ratings for the season finales. If the ratings keep going down in S10 it will probably be the last season. And at the end I'll be sad to see it go.

[smurf]

Personally, I don't see how chasing after the Farscape fans (or more traditional-style Sci-Fi fans) was ever going to be a good idea.

There seems to be a complete lack of logic in changing Stargate: SG-1 to something just like every other sci-fi show out there in order to gain a tiny proportion of viewership.
Looking back, Farscape's last season pulled an average of 1.3 against Stargate season 6's 1.7. Even without taking into account the number of people who watched both shows that is .4 of a point worth of viewers who did not want to watch a Farscape-type show.

Which genius thought the changes would bring in greater ratings?

[Nem2k]

Which genius thought the changes would bring in greater ratings?

i dunno but i sure would like to slap them

[chocdoc]

I certainly think it used to be MUCH better - especially in the 3rd -6th seasons. S1 was pretty cheesy at times. But as much as I love it I never considered it "awesome" in the sense it was cutting edge scifi with breathtaking special effects or intricate plots. It was a great cast, great characters, led by RDA's Jack. The best lead character in a scifi show in a long time. SG-1 had a neat twist being set in the current day military, with the tie-in to ancient mythology. And the Goauld were really a pretty cool foe - especially in the early seasons. The show was very consistent - with a winning formula that was (mostly) fun to watch every week.

I just think they decided to move the show in a direction in an effort to "freshen" it up but failed to "freshen up" the writing. I think the whole Arthurian/Merlin thing is rather hokey. And the Ori don't interest me much either. Make Anubis look like a villain with rare depth

And even though RDA's heart and soul wasn't in it the last couple of season, I miss Jack a lot. More than I thought I would. The "team as family" feel is lacking these days, imo.

Well....as I said, I'm really curious about the ratings for the season finales. If the ratings keep going down in S10 it will probably be the last season. And at the end I'll be sad to see it go.

It is very likely that the ratings for the last two episodes will be higher than what we've been seeing in the last handful of episodes. The season finales in seasons 6,7, and 8 were very high---Lost City was 2.1 and Mobieus I and II were 2.3 and 2.4. The finales, like the premieres, are the highest rated episodes. So, I think they will be high. If not, then, yes this does not bode well for season 10 at all.

My one BIG problem with season 9 (and what I fear for season 10) is Mitchell. I do not like the way he has been written at all. I'm having trouble watching him--and that really saddens me. It saddens me because I like BB and because my enjoyment of my favorite show is so much less than it used to be. Mitchell, IMO, is not believable as leader AT ALL. He hasn't EARNED his place on the team, but particularly as leader or co-leader of SG-1. I have to suspend my belief so much to watch the show.

I just hope that Mitchell and Vala are integrated into the original team, the Big 3, rather than the Big 3 being the sidekicks of Mitchell and Vala in season 10. I really fear this in season 10. I'm stuck watching this show because I still really like Sam, and Sam with Daniel and Teal'c, and I possibly could like some of the storylines. I also like sam and mitchell as friends, and I think there is much potential with Sam and Vala. But will TPTB take advantage of this potential? Probably not if their goal is to promote Mitchell and Vala. If they do this, I think the ratings will continue to go downhill.