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S10: Critique & Contemplation

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    Originally posted by keshou
    Did I say that? I just didn't understand all the angst over Vala being on Atlantis when - at least at this point - she's not scheduled to appear on that show.
    No, but you were implying that Vala is- or could be- a great thing and having just been attacked by a pro-ranter (whose post got deleted) shortly before you posted, well, I'm a wee bit twitchy.

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      ben and clauda are just doing thier jobs, plain and simple. about the only 'blame' anyone can lay at thier feet is how cam and vala have been acting OTT and even then it's up to the director to rein them in

      much of vala's issues with s10 will be her abrupt change in attitude as we saw in last week's eps. ok, so for years, decades, centuries she's been a rogue and has, by her own admission, prostituted herself to get ahead...but the love of a good man has turned her around????? leopards don't change their spots that fast

      but since rcc & co fell so in love with vala and her OTT antics, now if this is going to be the only reason for her abrupt change of face, it's shallow and wa too convenient. if they were so in love with her that they knew a year ago that they wanted her to join the team, they should have reined her in way back in s9 and toned her down then to make her joining the team more plausible now.
      Where in the World is George Hammond?


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        ben and clauda are just doing thier jobs, plain and simple. about the only 'blame' anyone can lay at thier feet is how cam and vala have been acting OTT and even then it's up to the director to rein them in

        much of vala's issues with s10 will be her abrupt change in attitude as we saw in last week's eps. ok, so for years, decades, centuries she's been a rogue and has, by her own admission, prostituted herself to get ahead...but the love of a good man has turned her around????? leopards don't change their spots that fast

        but since rcc & co fell so in love with vala and her OTT antics, now if this is going to be the only reason for her abrupt change of face, it's shallow and wa too convenient. if they were so in love with her that they knew a year ago that they wanted her to join the team, they should have reined her in way back in s9 and toned her down then to make her joining the team more plausible now.
        Where in the World is George Hammond?


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          Originally posted by Albion
          Oh, and Mr. Prophet - I agree that BB and CB haven't done anything more than what's been expected of them by TPTB and that they've done it well. However, that doesn't stop both characters being annoying or spoiling the show for certain fans nor does it stop those fans from wishing they could be 'disappeared' in some way. I didn't see Skydiver mention the actors at all. Her comments were directed against the characters. There's a slight difference.
          Oh, I recognise that and intended no slight on Skydiver (ah, UFO; so weird). My point was that it seemed rather cruel to abandon them to these ill-written roles while saving the rest of Stargate.

          Mind you, I doubt that Skydiver's plan would work since, with or without the new characters, it relies on some care being given to the scripts, which just doesn't seem to be the case of late.
          Behold the majesty that is...GERALD!
          - Read The Prophet's fan fiction at The Lost Vegas Public Library.

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            it may not be fair to them but, well no offense to them, but i personally dn't care about cam or vala. they're not the folks i've enjoyed watching for the better part of a decade.

            and many of the issues with stargate is how the show has been changed from what it used to be to the farce that it is now.

            well letting browder and black go off on thier own will free them up to create a new show without all the baggage of grumpy old fans like us that don't like to see thier show so altered. then all those folks that love and adore the two actors can enjoy them, free of the encumberances that are we stargate fans. and scifi can make the show from its inception to be how they want it instead of altering it

            then those at scifi that want to recreate farscape can and can do so with a fresh adn new show without all the baggage, and those of us that like our familiar characters will be free to like them

            personally? i doubt it'll ever happen. i can see the spinoff happening, but not sg continuing. especially now that skiffy has BSG to bank on. a now that they make and control totally
            Where in the World is George Hammond?


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              Originally posted by ShadowMaat
              No, but you were implying that Vala is- or could be- a great thing and having just been attacked by a pro-ranter (whose post got deleted) shortly before you posted, well, I'm a wee bit twitchy.
              LOL.... everyone seems twitchy these days if you ask me.

              Shoot, I'll probably be happy if Vala doesn't make me cringe at least once an episode. A "great thing" is probably far too much to hope for at this point. Doesn't matter that much - the Stargates are just something I watch while I'm waiting for BSG to come on. And that makes me sad.
              Life is hard...and it's harder if you're stupid

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                yeah, you know, if the vala we got in crusade had been the vala we'd gotten all along, i wouldn't quite have the knee jerk reaction against her that i do.

                vala, as portrayed in PU and the early part of s9 is little more than a cliche and supports the idea that, to get ahead, the only way a woman can do it is by using her body and 'wit' to stun the men into stupidity so that she can pick their pockets. women are nothing more than manipulators and connivers and really have no honor.

                vala, while she certainly may be fun, is simply not a 'good' female image to put forth. she fits right in with the fallacy that to be beautiful, women must be size 4 adn blond.

                i'm sure they're gonna try to give her some depth in the coming season, but i don't think she'll ever escape her past and the idea that, in having fun with her, tptb have damanged her character
                Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                  Originally posted by Skydiver
                  snip, snip

                  in having fun with her, tptb have damanged her character
                  This line is excellent and IMO in "having fun" with this cheap, caricature which is a farce TPTB have also damaged the show in general as well as themselves.

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                    I wouldn't mind Vala dressing the way she does if she actually had any depth. I find it ironic that for the most part SG-1 treated women characters very well, even during the whole 7 of 9 era. Now they have turned a complete 180 degrees from what they were.

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                      Originally posted by Vyse
                      I wouldn't mind Vala dressing the way she does if she actually had any depth. I find it ironic that for the most part SG-1 treated women characters very well, even during the whole 7 of 9 era. Now they have turned a complete 180 degrees from what they were.
                      You should check out the (somewhat dusty and mothballed) thread Stargate writing women for some insights into how fans feel about TPTB writing female characters.

                      Vala is probably one of the worst offenses (IMO), but she's hardly the only one.

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                        they have.

                        they used to be one of hte few shows that had women being women. not sex pots or girl friends or damsels in distress (that's what daniel was there for )

                        but now??? now it seems that theyr'e incapable of writing sam unless she's teh other half of 'sam and ______'

                        vala, while i don't deny that some enjoy her, is nowhere near what i'd call a role model and a throw back to 'women must maniuplate and connive to get ahead' thus insinuating that women are incapable of doing it on their own merits, they can only sneak or steal to get ahead

                        they've turned from being a bit of a ground breaker in how females were portayed to settling in with the stereotypes and perpetrating the fallacy that the only successful woman is either a witch or someone that manipulated her way there
                        Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                          Hmmm...it's almost certain that the writers are going to tone down Vala for season ten. Which is a great thing for me because I don't think I could stand more early s9 Vala.

                          But that got me thinking, if they tone down Vala will the mediocre episodes become even more apparent? I thought that the early s9 episodes like TTTB were wastes of a plot, but many fans were willing to overlook poor writing or plot holes because Vala was wild and fun and spontaneous and naughty. What will happen when Vala gets turned down several notches but the lackluster writing continues?

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                            Haven't you heard, TOF? A real fan would keep watching even if an ep featured Wally going through the gate in his boxers. A real fan doesn't care about content, they just care that they're watching Stargate!

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                              that's probably the biggest risk of the character. tptb are danged if they do and danged if they don't

                              OTT vala is unsustainable. even the actors have said so. sure, she was fun, but on a weekly/regular basis? she'd become little more than a charicture and a joke. and soon, worst case scenario, the only critics that could continue to support her would be the ones that are 100% in love with CLAUDIA not the character she plays (Like matt roush for example, who, it seems, will cut off his own hand before he says the slightest thing other than praise about farscape and the actors involved with it)

                              however, once they change her and tone her down to make her sustainable....will she still have enough appeal when she's not cracking sex jokes and hitting on daniel? will people tolerate teh more subdued vala?

                              some will. however there will be some that will never want to give up what she used to be and, to many, she will never recover from her introduction.

                              another obstacle she will face is will they adequately explain her abrupt turn of character? will we get a more compelling reason other than 'the love of a good man' to explain her suddenly giving up decadess + of using and manipulating to turn into a sweet and vulnerable member of the team?

                              IMHO, by indulging in their adolescence, the writers have created a character that's unsustainable, and in changing her to be more acceptable, i think they will doom her to forever be an issue. i have little faith in them adequately explaining her changes. these are the guys that seem unable to write women unless they're half of & ______, or unless they'er some sort of romance novel foible.

                              given these boys track record writing women as anything but a cliche, vala has a very, very hard row to hoe.

                              and, i think, her redemption will be further complicated by tptb stubborn insistence that they're the bestest writers in the world and that anyone that can't see that needs thier glasses cleaned
                              Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                                Originally posted by Skydiver
                                that's probably the biggest risk of the character. tptb are danged if they do and danged if they don't

                                OTT vala is unsustainable. even the actors have said so. sure, she was fun, but on a weekly/regular basis? she'd become little more than a charicture and a joke. and soon, worst case scenario, the only critics that could continue to support her would be the ones that are 100% in love with CLAUDIA not the character she plays (Like matt roush for example, who, it seems, will cut off his own hand before he says the slightest thing other than praise about farscape and the actors involved with it)

                                however, once they change her and tone her down to make her sustainable....will she still have enough appeal when she's not cracking sex jokes and hitting on daniel? will people tolerate teh more subdued vala?

                                some will. however there will be some that will never want to give up what she used to be and, to many, she will never recover from her introduction.

                                another obstacle she will face is will they adequately explain her abrupt turn of character? will we get a more compelling reason other than 'the love of a good man' to explain her suddenly giving up decadess + of using and manipulating to turn into a sweet and vulnerable member of the team?

                                IMHO, by indulging in their adolescence, the writers have created a character that's unsustainable, and in changing her to be more acceptable, i think they will doom her to forever be an issue. i have little faith in them adequately explaining her changes. these are the guys that seem unable to write women unless they're half of & ______, or unless they'er some sort of romance novel foible.

                                given these boys track record writing women as anything but a cliche, vala has a very, very hard row to hoe.

                                and, i think, her redemption will be further complicated by tptb stubborn insistence that they're the bestest writers in the world and that anyone that can't see that needs thier glasses cleaned
                                Hmmm....

                                How about Vala gets Tok'ra-fied, with a Tok'ra who has a personality like the Roman goddes Vesta: All Propriety All The Time, thank you very much.

                                It'd keep the potential for 'wild hilarity' (ahem) as the two switch back and forth in the same scene, and unlucky people go in search of one, and find the other! Wouldn't that be kewl???? :gah: And it'd keep Vala from spawing again, for the duration... wait, I actually like that part of the idea: SuperBaby!BirthControl.

                                Okay - who has a spare Tok'ra symbiote????
                                ...a very cranky blog:http://simhavaktra.blogspot.com/

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