S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Nem2k]

Is it just me or did anyone else find the following statment interesting..

The show did remain steady among viewers aged 25 to 54, a key demographic for The SCI FI Channel.

Because I think this is the demographic they are running the most risk of losing with the "new" show. The new show appears geared torwards males in the what 18-25 (14-25 seems more like it). Again it looks like (to me) that they have a demographic they do good in and have long time fans in and they are thumbing their nose at it hoping to get another demographic which is really just not that interested in the show, and wont be no matter how much they mess with its formula.

didnt their target demographic used to be a lot older than that?
I certainly understand what you mean about the new show being a bit risky in terms of possibly losing ppl who are above the age of maybe 35, but i think ppl in the 25-35 age range would enjoy the show still, maybe, im just guessing

[Skydiver]

no. they, like every OTHER show out there, aims for that mid aged demo with the belief that those are the folks with the most money, thus the most likely to spend said money on products advertised

the problem with this??? every other show is also trying for that very same demo. which means that - just making up numbers - there are 1,000,000 people in that demo, 29 shows geared towards them, which means taht they'er being pulled in every direction while another show which is aiming towards another demo has very little competition

[AGateFan]

Ok, just typing to be typing, but this may actually be on a subject

Ratings last week. (have no idea why the following happened but this seems to be what happened)

Fewer people then normal turned into SG-1
Then of those people more turned OFF SG-A then stayed (and not enough new people turned on SG-A to bring the ratings back up to SG-1 level).
Then more poeple turned on Scifi to watch BSG but it was still less then is normal for BSG.

So SG-1 was NOT a BIG draw but it did draw some.
SG-A did not maintain the SG-1 audience.
BSG did maintain the SG-A audience and pulled in some extra BSG people.

So it looks to be that SG-A is taking the biggest hit. Wonder why this is? Are the farscape fans turning off? Did some big competitions premier at 9?
Do SG-1 fans just not like SG-A? hmmmmm.

I do personally know some people who used to be die-hard dont miss eps that decided to go bowling last week instead of watching. But then they know I tape it everyweek on DVD (for one of them in fact) and they could always catch the late show... though it doesnt look like the late show numbers were up, I guess we cant tell who is taping for later viewing. I just know that among the people i know it is not as compelling a show as it once was. But then as ShardsofGlass says its not really those types of people that matter but the casual viewer. And the casual viewer was always the type that would turn it on sometimes and off other times (to go bowling or something).

One thing that occured to me about the younger demographic that advertisers seem to covet is that they dont seem to have the income of the older viewers nor the patience to sit through commericals or commit to a show that requires thought. I think the hunt for this younger demographic is why many Scifi shows fail over the long haul. The viewers they were going after just came to the end of their attention span. Older viewers tend to be more patient, we can take a few bad eps if we know lots of other goodness will come. We tend to be more set in our ways and thus will continue to watch a show out of habit where a younger person may have found something else and gone off. Too bad this type of thing isnt really recognized.

I wonder how many SG-1 viewers are watching because they are really entertained by this season (I am sure a lot) and how many of them are watching because they had been entertained in past seasons and just do it out of habit or hope it will be like they remembered (MHO is this is a lot too). The question is, which group is bigger and can TBTP make enough tweaks in the forumula to keep the majority of both groups interested. If not I think the ratings decline will continue. I dont think there are enough people in either group alone to keep scifi interested in the show.

[binkpmmc]

I wonder how many SG-1 viewers are watching because they are really entertained by this season (I am sure a lot) and how many of them are watching because they had been entertained in past seasons and just do it out of habit or hope it will be like they remembered (MHO is this is a lot too). The question is, which group is bigger and can TBTP make enough tweaks in the forumula to keep the majority of both groups interested. If not I think the ratings decline will continue. I dont think there are enough people in either group alone to keep scifi interested in the show.

I am in the latter group and hope is waning except RE was very good. If they wree to bring on Carter, Daniel and Teal'c as teammates and friends who actually ACT as if they have known each other for 8 plus years and who have saved each others butts more times than you can count (and I wish Janet but I know that is a pie-in-the-sky wish) and then add Mitchell in there and give me a reason to care about him and show us that he is connecting with the team and limit vala's time and they will keep me otherwise . . .

[dreamer]

I am in the latter group and hope is waning except RE was very good. If they wree to bring on Carter, Daniel and Teal'c as teammates and friends who actually ACT as if they have known each other for 8 plus years and who have saved each others butts more times than you can count (and I wish Janet but I know that is a pie-in-the-sky wish) and then add Mitchell in there and give me a reason to care about him and show us that he is connecting with the team and limit vala's time and they will keep me otherwise . . .

I must agree. They do not behave like a group who care about each other anymore they do not seem to help eachother out at all. The team aspect has been tripped over and it is going to be hard to get it back. They must if in myo the show is to survive.

[Nem2k]

I must agree. They do not behave like a group who care about each other anymore they do not seem to help eachother out at all. The team aspect has been tripped over and it is going to be hard to get it back. They must if in myo the show is to survive.

indeed. the team aspect was probably the best thing about the original show because with this teamwork, theres a mutual feeling of trust between the team members, but it extends further than that because the viewers feel the trust as well. that was something amazing

[npattis]

The fact that Vala is becoming a full time cast memory is scary within itself.

[Amanda Eros]

From the Horse's mouth, taken from the Scifi page:

"Q: Do the fans' opinions and ideas ever influence your plots, storylines, or character development? And, if so, in what way, instance, or episode(s)?

Cooper: Basically, I'm sorry to say, no. We make the show we want to watch. And often we have planned far ahead of what fans are seeing in terms of plot and character. It is interesting to see people try to predict what's going to happen. Some have been bang-on and I'm sure took credit for their clairvoyance with big smiles. There have been a few exceptions, but not many. What we do pay attention to are bigger overall issues that seem to make people like and dislike the franchise.

What makes the show successful? People like the team interaction. The sense of humor. The action and adventure aspects. We listened to what people liked about SG-1 and tried to make sure we incorporated those elements into Atlantis when we were creating it."

So, basically this is what I got from what he said: In general, we don't care what you think about the show. We are making the show for ourselves. (If we want to have one the characters sleep around a lot, we will because we're living vicariously though them. If we want to have a regular hot actress around that wears tight leather outfits for us to drool all over, we will.)

[AGateFan]

From the Horse's mouth, taken from the Scifi page:

"Q: Do the fans' opinions and ideas ever influence your plots, storylines, or character development? And, if so, in what way, instance, or episode(s)?

Cooper: Basically, I'm sorry to say, no. We make the show we want to watch. And often we have planned far ahead of what fans are seeing in terms of plot and character. It is interesting to see people try to predict what's going to happen. Some have been bang-on and I'm sure took credit for their clairvoyance with big smiles. There have been a few exceptions, but not many. What we do pay attention to are bigger overall issues that seem to make people like and dislike the franchise.

What makes the show successful? People like the team interaction. The sense of humor. The action and adventure aspects. We listened to what people liked about SG-1 and tried to make sure we incorporated those elements into Atlantis when we were creating it."

So, basically this is what I got from what he said: In general, we don't care what you think about the show. We are making the show for ourselves. (If we want to have one the characters sleep around a lot, we will because we're living vicariously though them. If we want to have a regular hot actress around that wears tight leather outfits for us to drool all over, we will.)

Whats really funny is he says "we listened to what people liked about SG-1 and tried to make sure we incorporated those elements into Atlantis when we were creating it"..... But then these are the very things they seem to have gone and booted OUT of the "new and improved" SG-1 when they "re-created" it.

See, I actually still like Atlantis (at the moment).
SG-1 S9 Notsomuch (prototype and recent ep excluded as they actually contained those things that made the old SG-1 and Atlantis great)

[binkpmmc]

From the Horse's mouth, taken from the Scifi page:

"Q: Do the fans' opinions and ideas ever influence your plots, storylines, or character development? And, if so, in what way, instance, or episode(s)?

Cooper: Basically, I'm sorry to say, no. We make the show we want to watch. And often we have planned far ahead of what fans are seeing in terms of plot and character. It is interesting to see people try to predict what's going to happen. Some have been bang-on and I'm sure took credit for their clairvoyance with big smiles. There have been a few exceptions, but not many. What we do pay attention to are bigger overall issues that seem to make people like and dislike the franchise.

What makes the show successful? People like the team interaction. The sense of humor. The action and adventure aspects. We listened to what people liked about SG-1 and tried to make sure we incorporated those elements into Atlantis when we were creating it."

So, basically this is what I got from what he said: In general, we don't care what you think about the show. We are making the show for ourselves. (If we want to have one the characters sleep around a lot, we will because we're living vicariously though them. If we want to have a regular hot actress around that wears tight leather outfits for us to drool all over, we will.)

Whenever Cooper opens his mouth he continues to prove why I dislike him and his show running. He admits he knows what people "like" (make that "Liked" Coop) about the show and then he goes and bascially guts the show of those very same things. He deigns to keep in the so-called "humor" but too bad it is now teeny bopper, high school humor that has no place and no purpose most of the time. His version of humor seems to be mostly cliches and obnoxious unnecessary one-liner quips from a frat boy.

"What we do pay attention to are bigger overall issues that seem to make people like and dislike the franchise."

Hopefully they are paying attention to the overall feelings of dislike on certain aspects of S9 and the coming S10 including the idiotic sprog storyline, the vala nonsense, the fact that Mitchell is not really catching on with many, the fact that there are a lot of people who watchthe show because they like Sam Carter and they should not continue to degrade or diminish that character and the fact that people still want to see the team interaction that he acknowledges, but, sadly, doesn't seem to exist anymore, even between the 3 lead actors who have known each other for 9 years. (Having heads where the sun don't shine seems to be a problem at Bridge these days. I would love to try and see things from Cooper's, or the other PTB, point of view but I just cannot get my head that far up my a$$.)

[AGateFan]

Funny I am feeling particularly pessimistic today. Its funny because the last two eps written by Joe and Paul have been pretty good (if not really good) but still I cannot shake the albatross that is RCC. The fact that he is writing and directing the season finally and the next seasons opening just leaves me with a sense of hopelessness. OK so he will have people reviewing his script….maybe doing some re-writes *hopeful* and he may not be directing all the eps… or directing all by himself…. But still. IMHO Nothing good can come of this.

[Skydiver]

personally? when i find an author who writes, proofs and beta's her own fic without a stick of outside suggestions/ideas, i tend to find a fic that's full of self indulgence and silliness and uncaught plot holes.

sometimes the best thing is to have a second set of eyes and a critical mind take a look over things.

so yeah, the whole finale/premiere kinda spooks me. Rob can write some danged good stuff when he wants to, but i, correctly or not, attribute some of that to him having a great beta - brad - who questions and presses and 'keeps him honest' about stuff

i do think this is one of the biggest issues with what many of us see as a decline in quality episodes....none of these boys have someone who stands up to them and says 'dude, this bites' or 'i don't care if you've always wanted to write a sam and sheep scene, you still haven't explained where the sheep came from' and presses them to not just do ok, to do great.

it's one giant 'ain't we super' club and that lack of critical analysis shows

[Simhavaktra]

I have a question.

[sarcasm tag]
After reading the spoilers for the Season 10 opener, can I say "I told you so" to certain people now?

If those shark infested spoilers for the opener of season 10 are valid, may I officially minimize the benefit of the doubt I’m supposed to be extending to the members of the poor, distressingly misunderstood, alarmingly unappreciated, more painfully disregarded than any prophet on his own hearthstone, Stargate PTB-Continuum (cue the violin music that's de rigueur for the deepest of pathos), from office boy through grand high chief poobah and president of whoever finally owns whatever, and the rights to whatever too, when it comes to Stargate, because anyone found plotting to foist such a gargantuan heap of reeking guano on the viewing public be not worthy of overmuch, if any, trust and faith in my opinion? [/sarcasm tag]

I fear I ought to be issuing statements of pre-apology to the mods regarding the high probability that I may be unable to contain posts with ‘stop telling me what to believe about Stargate’s PTB-Continuum, already!!!!!’ in certain threads, because, dear Gods, with 14 eps that struggled to rise to te level of okay (and only got there once, as far as I’m concerned) in Season 9, I now have negative respect for Stargate’s PTB-Continuum after reading the spoilers for the opening ep of Season 10. So, Sky and company, my apologies in advance. Too much ‘oh, I think we have to have faith, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, Stargate is their baby and they know what to do with it’ PTB-Continuum apologia is likely to be viewed in an intensely negative light by me, and sometimes, alas, I just don’t want to control The Fist Of Death (bad Hong Kong, Kung Fu ‘opera’ reference/joke) when it starts to type.

These spoilers for the opening ep of season 10 look like that extension of Sturgeon's Law that Ursula K. Le Guin made – “95% of everything that’s written may be dreck, and no matter what you do, 95% of what you write may be dreck, but if you aim to produce dreck, by crikey, you get dreck 100% of the time!” Whether they know it or not, the PTB-Continuum is aiming to produce dreck, and if the spoilers are accurate, dreck they, and, alas we, will get.

These spoilers for Season 10 seem to me to be a massive case in point of what happens when people encourage clichés to breed. Take the criminal who’s too sexy and funny for anyone to ever even consider minding anything they do – from assault and battery all the way through to mass slavery and exploitation – and add the enigmatic, glowing energy-alien, fireball subvariety, which are, strangely, always intelligent and possessed of many more secrets of the universe than are we poor corporeal beings, and combine with liberal usuage of unexplained ‘science’, genetic engineering in this case, and voila! It’s the Otherworldly Superbaby™, Cliché!Squared, salvation of the universe, or its doom, or both, guaranteed to grow big enough to keep the production out from under child actor laws in two eps flat, or less! And now it looks like the weakness of Adria, Superbaby™, Cliché!Squared, will be her yearning to be normal and experience that iconic (read clichéd) sensation of a Mother’s Love. Is there a bigger cliché than that? Might be a few ties – Mother’s Love Dooms the Universe, Entire Universe Thrown Away For Love, The Aliens/Alien Artifact Fixes Everything – but none bigger come to mind. And, over this and preceding season and a half of Stargate, with the clichés come the plot holes; massive, capacious plot holes that suck, literally and figuratively, the good things out of the franchise. With a cliché this large in play, I’m expecting the entire universe of Stargate to get sucked into the most humongous plot holes ever, not to emerge in any recognizable universe, in any recognizable form, ever again.

Then, all that will be left of Stargate for me will be the entertainment value inherent in watching certain elements of the fandom self-destruct, and I don't like the idea of taking pleasure in watching a train wreck - or a corpse rot. But, I think that's what's going to happen.

[binkpmmc]

I have a question.

[sarcasm tag]
After reading the spoilers for the Season 10 opener, can I say "I told you so" to certain people now?

If those shark infested spoilers for the opener of season 10 are valid, may I officially minimize the benefit of the doubt I’m supposed to be extending to the members of the poor, distressingly misunderstood, alarmingly unappreciated, more painfully disregarded than any prophet on his own hearthstone, Stargate PTB-Continuum (cue the violin music that's de rigueur for the deepest of pathos), from office boy through grand high chief poobah and president of whoever finally owns whatever, and the rights to whatever too, when it comes to Stargate, because anyone found plotting to foist such a gargantuan heap of reeking guano on the viewing public be not worthy of overmuch, if any, trust and faith in my opinion? [/sarcasm tag]

I fear I ought to be issuing statements of pre-apology to the mods regarding the high probability that I may be unable to contain posts with ‘stop telling me what to believe about Stargate’s PTB-Continuum, already!!!!!’ in certain threads, because, dear Gods, with 14 eps that struggled to rise to te level of okay (and only got there once, as far as I’m concerned) in Season 9, I now have negative respect for Stargate’s PTB-Continuum after reading the spoilers for the opening ep of Season 10. So, Sky and company, my apologies in advance. Too much ‘oh, I think we have to have faith, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, Stargate is their baby and they know what to do with it’ PTB-Continuum apologia is likely to be viewed in an intensely negative light by me, and sometimes, alas, I just don’t want to control The Fist Of Death (bad Hong Kong, Kung Fu ‘opera’ reference/joke) when it starts to type.

These spoilers for the opening ep of season 10 look like that extension of Sturgeon's Law that Ursula K. Le Guin made – “95% of everything that’s written may be dreck, and no matter what you do, 95% of what you write may be dreck, but if you aim to produce dreck, by crikey, you get dreck 100% of the time!” Whether they know it or not, the PTB-Continuum is aiming to produce dreck, and if the spoilers are accurate, dreck they, and, alas we, will get.

These spoilers for Season 10 seem to me to be a massive case in point of what happens when people encourage clichés to breed. Take the criminal who’s too sexy and funny for anyone to ever even consider minding anything they do – from assault and battery all the way through to mass slavery and exploitation – and add the enigmatic, glowing energy-alien, fireball subvariety, which are, strangely, always intelligent and possessed of many more secrets of the universe than are we poor corporeal beings, and combine with liberal usuage of unexplained ‘science’, genetic engineering in this case, and voila! It’s the Otherworldly Superbaby™, Cliché!Squared, salvation of the universe, or its doom, or both, guaranteed to grow big enough to keep the production out from under child actor laws in two eps flat, or less! And now it looks like the weakness of Adria, Superbaby™, Cliché!Squared, will be her yearning to be normal and experience that iconic (read clichéd) sensation of a Mother’s Love. Is there a bigger cliché than that? Might be a few ties – Mother’s Love Dooms the Universe, Entire Universe Thrown Away For Love, The Aliens/Alien Artifact Fixes Everything – but none bigger come to mind. And, over this and preceding season and a half of Stargate, with the clichés come the plot holes; massive, capacious plot holes that suck, literally and figuratively, the good things out of the franchise. With a cliché this large in play, I’m expecting the entire universe of Stargate to get sucked into the most humongous plot holes ever, not to emerge in any recognizable universe, in any recognizable form, ever again.

Then, all that will be left of Stargate for me will be the entertainment value inherent in watching certain elements of the fandom self-destruct, and I don't like the idea of taking pleasure in watching a train wreck - or a corpse rot. But, I think that's what's going to happen.

I love your posts - great reading (and so true).

[STARGATE7777]

I have visions of Jack returning in season 10, taking a look at the present situation and saying........"Well, this is a cliche."

We could only be so lucky!