S10: Critique & Contemplation

[smurf]

Sorry, just turned my brain back on for a sec.

Wait! This is the new, scarier than the Ori, villian?

Spoiler:

With the GrowFast kid turning into a woman I'm sure before the haitus, does anyone seriously think they can manage 3 female characters?

I've noticed a number of posters across the board think it might be a good time to bring back Shi'fu. I so very much hope not.
Come on, what are SG-1 going to do then? Stand at the back waving their pom-poms?!

[AGateFan]

Sorry, just turned my brain back on for a sec.

Wait! This is the new, scarier than the Ori, villian?

Spoiler:

With the GrowFast kid turning into a woman I'm sure before the haitus, does anyone seriously think they can manage 3 female characters?

I've noticed a number of posters across the board think it might be a good time to bring back Shi'fu. I so very much hope not.
Come on, what are SG-1 going to do then? Stand at the back waving their pom-poms?!

Pretty much what they have teal'c doing now... except not so much with the pom poms.. hes more like the security guy in the yellow jacket just standing around looking kinda important.

[Seshat]

I've noticed a number of posters across the board think it might be a good time to bring back Shi'fu.

If I've ever given anyone that impression I am heartily sorry! If I talked about him coming back I was KIDDING.

But since TPTB seem to LIKE really dreadful clichés...

[smurf]

If I've ever given anyone that impression I am heartily sorry! If I talked about him coming back I was KIDDING.

But since TPTB seem to LIKE really dreadful clichés...

You might be kidding, but some people aren't...

Desperately hopes TPTB aren't those people. Nope, not working.

[Osiris-RA]

Pretty much what they have teal'c doing now... except not so much with the pom poms.. hes more like the security guy in the yellow jacket just standing around looking kinda important.

I saw him more like pretty wallpaper that blinks at you.

[binkpmmc]

I am going to make an observation here: I am getting a little tired of people telling me to give it time, telling me to WAIT until the end of S9 before making a decision whether to fish or cut bait, telling me that I overreact to spoilers for S9 and now these jokes from S10, etc., etc,. yada, yada.

Well to all of them, including the delusional PTB, I say I HAVE been waiting since season 7 and I am tired of waiting. All of the hope and all of the good thoughts I had for the show have all come up empty. TPTB have not surprised me with anything good or with anything that even approaches the intelligent, unique, well-written drama they managed to produce for 7 years.

TPTB have have just continued to take this show down a road that screams "reinvention" to a cliche-ridden, cheesy, been-there-done-that, bunch of rot that repeats plots and stories (of their own show and of other shows) in different packages. They have made it a less-than-mediocre sci-fi chesse board like hundreds of other sci-fi cheesefests. They have diminished the lead, beloved characters (including the STARGATE itself) that kept the show alive and unique for 7 years, treating the fans as if they are stupid, treating the long-time fans who have helped keep the show on the air so long as if they do not matter and are not needed, treating the fans who have criticisms (the legitimate, even-handed criticisms), as if they are wrong and not worthy of a legitimate, honest response, saying to the fans with criticisms that if you don't like it lump it - we say it's great and if you don't believe us you are nuts

TPTB have written the core, original, beloved, intelligent characters as if they are shadows of themselves, caricatures of themselves, to fit into this shiny, new sci-fi cheese cliche. TPTB have written those same core characters as if they don't even really know each other notwithstanding the fact that they had been a team for 8 years and saved each others butts, as well as the world's butt and the butt of the universe, for 8 years.

This show is a very, very slim shadow of the once great and unique Stargate SG1. It is stuck between wanna-be comedy and wanna-be cliche with caricatures for characters including your obligatory sci-fi cheesy tramp who will, in less than 10 episodes, miraculously have a cliche shark sprog and become someone else for the sake of tryjng to fit her in because so many fans can't stand the caricature tramp, lying, thieving, thief that she is.

For those who say you are jumping to conclusions, for those who say wait and see - well so far everything I have anticipated for the past 2 seasons is coming true, everything I have "jumped to conclusions" about is coming true everything you sit back and hope TPTB will NOT do is being DONE. Why exactly should I continue to wait and give them more time?

All of what I thought would happen IS happening and none of it is good - I waited 2 seasons and nothing, absolutely nothing new or surprising has come forth from the dried up font of TPTB. And the Ori - please - not scary, not dramatic, not interesting, another story line that is not really interesting in comparison to the first 6 season (season 7 and 8, IMO, are basically gone as there is nothing about them that grabbed me, kept me interested. Those 2 seasons were in fact the start and continuous decline of the show.) Can you say SHOWRUNNER!

Anyway that's it - my observations about why I won't wait. They don't need me, they don't respect me as a long-time fan who put time and $ (6 seasons of DVDs) into the show so it is indeed time to move on. TPTB are so predictable and so going in the wrong direction from when this show stood high and respected, all for the lowest common denominator. IMO, the show is becoming a joke and getting worse with the S10 direction. I am not jumping to conclusions with the recent spoilers because it is so obvious where TPTB are going, just like all other spoilers for the last 2 seasons, nothing was different, nothing was a surprise - fans called it when they said it would be bad and it was. Likewise I see nothing but bad for many of remaining S9 eps, especially 19 and 20 and nothing good for S10. If my reactions to spoilers have been dead-on for the last 2 seasons (and not in a good way) why would my reaction to S10 spoilers be any different - TPTB are predicatble and transparent and the writing is on the wall.

Sorry for the rant I'm just at the end of the rope and a little pissed that I got invested in this show and the characters for so many years to have the dolts ruin it this way in such a short span of time and in such an undeserved, unnecessary way. What a waste.

[esoap524]

Well, now you know why most shows don't go much beyond 5 years. Even "Cheers" and "Frasier" became shadows of their once glorious selves.

I guess I should be glad my favorite shows bit the dust before I began to hate them.

[LaCroix]

Sorry, just turned my brain back on for a sec.

Wait! This is the new, scarier than the Ori, villian?

Spoiler:

With the GrowFast kid turning into a woman I'm sure before the haitus, does anyone seriously think they can manage 3 female characters?

I've noticed a number of posters across the board think it might be a good time to bring back Shi'fu. I so very much hope not.
Come on, what are SG-1 going to do then? Stand at the back waving their pom-poms?!

Sorry. My post was an "what if". I know that TPTB aren't going to wrap-up that storyline.

[Skydiver]

a friend of mine brought up an odd idea...we all know that many find the s10 story arc to be, well less than what we'd consider 'good'

what if it's being written deliberately 'bad'?

what if, bridge is so sick and tired of scifi dictating plot and characters and storyline (such as the 'vala MUST be in teh s9 finale, vala must be in the show, etc) that they've reached the 'they want her, well we're gonna give her to them' stage

what if, after being told that vala had to be in the s9 finale and that they had to accomodate the actress' life issues that they decided to go OTT with it. 'scifi wants cheesy, well we're gonna give them cheesy' type of attitude

it's nothing but speculation but...while some of rob's scripts certainly haven't been to my personal tastes, he's never gone this far OTT before. which is kinda odd for him. so this 'odd' behavior makes me wonder if it's deliberate in some way

[ShadowMaat]

I don't buy it. It's too easy a cop-out to say, "Oh, they MEAN for it to be bad!"

Besides, could any professional really and truly turn out an inferior product out of spite or "tiredness"? TPTB may be fed up with SCIFI, but would they really go so far as to destroy their own show, make themselves look like lobotomized monkeys and disappoint hundreds/thousands of loyal fans in the process? I don't think so.

As a writer, it would bug the everlasting snot out of me to write badly and KNOW I was writing badly and to hear back from my readers that I'm writing badly, especially when I know I can do better.

Granted, I'm a far cry from TPTB, but I think there's a bit of that ego in most creative people- the need to try even if you hate something.

Of course, TPTB have also proven they have no dignity at all, so who knows?

[the dancer of spaz]

a friend of mine brought up an odd idea...we all know that many find the s10 story arc to be, well less than what we'd consider 'good'

what if it's being written deliberately 'bad'?

what if, bridge is so sick and tired of scifi dictating plot and characters and storyline (such as the 'vala MUST be in teh s9 finale, vala must be in the show, etc) that they've reached the 'they want her, well we're gonna give her to them' stage

what if, after being told that vala had to be in the s9 finale and that they had to accomodate the actress' life issues that they decided to go OTT with it. 'scifi wants cheesy, well we're gonna give them cheesy' type of attitude

it's nothing but speculation but...while some of rob's scripts certainly haven't been to my personal tastes, he's never gone this far OTT before. which is kinda odd for him. so this 'odd' behavior makes me wonder if it's deliberate in some way

I'd like to think that Cooper isn't THAT maniacally self-destructive. His colleagues, either. The writers seem to like Vala.

But, boy, I never thought I'd actually be WISHING such a truth like that in my life.

[majorsal]

Well, now you know why most shows don't go much beyond 5 years. Even "Cheers" and "Frasier" became shadows of their once glorious selves.

I guess I should be glad my favorite shows bit the dust before I began to hate them.

i'm just thinking of some of my fave shows over time that actually ended on a high note...

remington steel: crap ship ending.
star trek next gen: so-so.
magnum pi: stupid to not let him be happy with his daughter AND his wife!
star trek deep space nine: disappointing.
star trek voyager: so-so, but wanted to SEE voyager reunited with earth.
xena: OH MY GOD!!!
x-files: this is what i waited for?
quantum leap: you've got to be kidding me!
forever knight: you can't leave it like that!
silk stalkings: HORRIBLE ending for the original cast!
dallas: no. way.
buffy the vampire slayer: no!
angel: no way!
jag: THIS is what i waited for?!
bonanza:
facts of life: died in the worst way. as the girls matured, the writing didn't.
sister: why change what worked!?
earth 2: you can't leave it like that!


okay, i'm going to stop now (couldn't think of any that ended 'high'). i think the point is is that the shows ended because the writing became uninspired. something happens to the writing staff of long running shows. they either burn out or lose the 'it' that made them great to begin with.

i'd like the current writing staff of sg1 to go back and rewatch the first six seasons. there were some misses, but a LOT of hits. they had a good mixture of everything, especially good characters moments. the first time daniel died, they reacted with grief. the second time, they reacted with grief into the next season. when

Spoiler:

janet died, they reacted with grief, then completely forgot she ever existed after that.

i don't believe a writing misstep (g-rated version of real word i chose ) like that would have happened in the first few seasons.

what happened to the writers writing many levels of depth? now we've just got surface writing, which can appeal to anyone not wanting to think past seeing scantily clad women and snappy one-liners. the writers are supposed to be better than this. they *were* better than this. what happened?

the main thing i want from season 10 now is vala not taking over the show. again. then i'll go into my usual complaints because i'll *never* get over losing the points i had just last season (and ALL the previous seasons before).

i can accept change, when it doesn't take what i love and beat the sh*t out of it.





sally

[AGateFan]

I am going to make an observation here: I am getting a little tired of people telling me to give it time, telling me to WAIT until the end of S9 before making a decision whether to fish or cut bait, telling me that I overreact to spoilers for S9 and now these jokes from S10, etc., etc,. yada, yada.

Well to all of them, including the delusional PTB, I say I HAVE been waiting since season 7 and I am tired of waiting. All of the hope and all of the good thoughts I had for the show have all come up empty. TPTB have not surprised me with anything good or with anything that even approaches the intelligent, unique, well-written drama they managed to produce for 7 years.

TPTB have have just continued to take this show down a road that screams "reinvention" to a cliche-ridden, cheesy, been-there-done-that, bunch of rot that repeats plots and stories (of their own show and of other shows) in different packages. They have made it a less-than-mediocre sci-fi chesse board like hundreds of other sci-fi cheesefests. They have diminished the lead, beloved characters (including the STARGATE itself) that kept the show alive and unique for 7 years, treating the fans as if they are stupid, treating the long-time fans who have helped keep the show on the air so long as if they do not matter and are not needed, treating the fans who have criticisms (the legitimate, even-handed criticisms), as if they are wrong and not worthy of a legitimate, honest response, saying to the fans with criticisms that if you don't like it lump it - we say it's great and if you don't believe us you are nuts

TPTB have written the core, original, beloved, intelligent characters as if they are shadows of themselves, caricatures of themselves, to fit into this shiny, new sci-fi cheese cliche. TPTB have written those same core characters as if they don't even really know each other notwithstanding the fact that they had been a team for 8 years and saved each others butts, as well as the world's butt and the butt of the universe, for 8 years.

This show is a very, very slim shadow of the once great and unique Stargate SG1. It is stuck between wanna-be comedy and wanna-be cliche with caricatures for characters including your obligatory sci-fi cheesy tramp who will, in less than 10 episodes, miraculously have a cliche shark sprog and become someone else for the sake of tryjng to fit her in because so many fans can't stand the caricature tramp, lying, thieving, thief that she is.

For those who say you are jumping to conclusions, for those who say wait and see - well so far everything I have anticipated for the past 2 seasons is coming true, everything I have "jumped to conclusions" about is coming true everything you sit back and hope TPTB will NOT do is being DONE. Why exactly should I continue to wait and give them more time?

All of what I thought would happen IS happening and none of it is good - I waited 2 seasons and nothing, absolutely nothing new or surprising has come forth from the dried up font of TPTB. And the Ori - please - not scary, not dramatic, not interesting, another story line that is not really interesting in comparison to the first 6 season (season 7 and 8, IMO, are basically gone as there is nothing about them that grabbed me, kept me interested. Those 2 seasons were in fact the start and continuous decline of the show.) Can you say SHOWRUNNER!

Anyway that's it - my observations about why I won't wait. They don't need me, they don't respect me as a long-time fan who put time and $ (6 seasons of DVDs) into the show so it is indeed time to move on. TPTB are so predictable and so going in the wrong direction from when this show stood high and respected, all for the lowest common denominator. IMO, the show is becoming a joke and getting worse with the S10 direction. I am not jumping to conclusions with the recent spoilers because it is so obvious where TPTB are going, just like all other spoilers for the last 2 seasons, nothing was different, nothing was a surprise - fans called it when they said it would be bad and it was. Likewise I see nothing but bad for many of remaining S9 eps, especially 19 and 20 and nothing good for S10. If my reactions to spoilers have been dead-on for the last 2 seasons (and not in a good way) why would my reaction to S10 spoilers be any different - TPTB are predicatble and transparent and the writing is on the wall.

Sorry for the rant I'm just at the end of the rope and a little pissed that I got invested in this show and the characters for so many years to have the dolts ruin it this way in such a short span of time and in such an undeserved, unnecessary way. What a waste.

Dang, I cant give you green... and I would have even like to give you more then one. You nailed it, although I personnally found some redemption in 7-8 there was definitly the starting of decline. Much more soap opera atmosphere. Many more notsogood eps. The apparent character assination (or rework -and not always in a good way) of certain (if not all) of the main characters. Very sad. I see you are still in the anger stag of loss... I think I am just about beyond the anger stage and into 'you got to laugh or cry stage'... at least today.. maybe tomorrows spoilers will punt me back to anger.... who knows.

[phoenixblue7500]

2) They united Vala with Daniel. She immediately was accepted from that section of the fandom. I think that she will slowly move away from him but in the beginning it was a perfect way to have her join the show.

I´m only delurking to say that this part your post makes me feel a bit unhappy. I have often read it recently that THE Daniel fans are happy about the Daniel/Vala thing and even that THE Daniel fans want AT out of the show.
I´m not blind I know that such fans existing but believe me only because they are so loud and aggresive it don´t means that ALL Daniel fans share their opinions. (Thats not so different than with the Sam/Jack shippers: only because a handfull of them were very much against Daniel - and very vocal about it - it don´t meant that all of them hated Daniel or wanted him out of the show).

I´m a BIG Daniel fan and I´m sharing many of the concerns with the other people on this thread. And the last thing I want is more of the "Daniel/Vala comedy hour".
I don´t know in which direction season 10 will go but as more spoilers I read as more nervous I am. That is clearly NOT the Stargate SG 1 I´m once fall in love with.

[Skydiver]

I don't buy it. It's too easy a cop-out to say, "Oh, they MEAN for it to be bad!"

Besides, could any professional really and truly turn out an inferior product out of spite or "tiredness"? TPTB may be fed up with SCIFI, but would they really go so far as to destroy their own show, make themselves look like lobotomized monkeys and disappoint hundreds/thousands of loyal fans in the process? I don't think so.

As a writer, it would bug the everlasting snot out of me to write badly and KNOW I was writing badly and to hear back from my readers that I'm writing badly, especially when I know I can do better.

Granted, I'm a far cry from TPTB, but I think there's a bit of that ego in most creative people- the need to try even if you hate something.

Of course, TPTB have also proven they have no dignity at all, so who knows?

do you really think they care about the fans? they've said time and time again that they write what they write, not what the fans want.

I can certainly be totally wrong, but in an odd way it also makes sense. how do you react when you have someone telling you what to do? for many, it's 'oh, you want me to bring dinner right? oh, i'm SOOOO gonna bring dinner' and you then stop by the restaurant that you know the person hates just to 'show them' what they get for meddling

Super!Baby! as a plot has never worked out well. It's been blamed for the demise of the x-files, alias, xena and a host of other shows. so why else take this landmine of a plot idea and turn it into the arc of the show?

anyone who has any experience with writing for a show has to be aware of which plots just dont' work out. so why choose them?

I can only presume two reasons:

you're being told to
you honestly think that you can do it in a better way

good luck to them if they can do it in a better way, and maybe there's a plot twist out there that they haven't revealed...but as spoiled now, this whole vala angle seems to be rather...well...a landmine. it has the potential to be oh so bad in oh so many ways