S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ShadowMaat]

i agree. we hear time and time again that 'we do what's best for the show'...yet it seems that, on more than one occasion, that's 'what's best for the show' seems to be fulfilling the requirements of some folks.

Yeah, and more often of late it seems to be a lot of self-gratification and fulfilling their own sad little fanboy fantasies. "What's best for the show" means "what's cool for us to ogle."

Which is a rather sad commentary on the state of affairs on Stargate.

[Sum1]

All these attacks on TPTB and on actors/actresses for the horrid episodes seem to be increasing all the time, from what I'm seeing. It looks as though there are more dissatisfied people in the community now than a year ago. The attacks and demands have also been getting nastier and uglier.

It seems as though the only person really benefitting copmletely from the current state of SG-1 is Jonathan Glassner - as a creator I'm sure he gets paid royalties as long as its on (otherwise why would they list him as an "Executive Consultant").

[Nem2k]

It looks as though there are more dissatisfied people in the community now than a year ago. The attacks and demands have also been getting nastier and uglier.

yeah, im not entirely sure thats our fault though
i mean, we wouldnt be dissatisfied if tptb didnt give us a reason to be. im all for being positive and seeing this show in the best possible light, im willing to give this show a chance, but its up to them to actually do something about it and make this something good

[esoap524]

All these attacks on TPTB and on actors/actresses for the horrid episodes seem to be increasing all the time, from what I'm seeing. It looks as though there are more dissatisfied people in the community now than a year ago. The attacks and demands have also been getting nastier and uglier.

It seems as though the only person really benefitting copmletely from the current state of SG-1 is Jonathan Glassner - as a creator I'm sure he gets paid royalties as long as its on (otherwise why would they list him as an "Executive Consultant").

Customer service studies show that a dissastisfied customer will tell 10 people about the poor service, whereas a satisfied customer is less likely to spread the good word. The moral is that apparently misery loves company.

It seems to me that this has been the most tumultuous of all the seasons for SG1, what with the loss of RDA, the star. Thusly, the dissatisfied are going to come out in droves to express their frustration and, well, dissatisfaction with the new direction. That's why you see more nastiness and complaining--there's a lot of change and, therefore, more to complain about.

The new actors and actresses are talented and competent, so we can't really say they're bad actors, because they're not. All you can really say about Ben Browder is that he's not Richard Dean Anderson. All you can really say about Beau Bridges is that he's not Don Davis, Claudia Black isn't Amanda Tapping, etc. Not one of those three actors is a hack and all have been acknowledged as competent professionals.

So, until RDA comes back and Browder, Black and Bridges are gone, the SG1 universe will never be set right for those who don't like the show's new direction.

[Domesticated Equine]

So, until RDA comes back and Browder, Black and Bridges are gone, the SG1 universe will never be set right for those who don't like the show's new direction.

You seem to making the assumption that people dislike the 9th season of SG-1 only because of the change in actors. I can't speak for others, but I was looking forward to these changes and hoped they would bring some life into a stagnating series. I was wrong -- my main issue with the last season still stands: the poor quality of writing.

[Nem2k]

You seem to making the assumption that people dislike the 9th season of SG-1 only because of the change in actors. I can't speak for others, but I was looking forward to these changes and hoped they would bring some life into a stagnating series. I was wrong -- my main issue with the last season still stands: the poor quality of writing.

for me one of the problems is a combination of poor writing and the change in cast

the changing cast has forced the writers to create new stories, new dynamic with the team. and that hasnt been done too well
the characters and their relationship has always been key to SG-1 for me, but atm it just feels like its 4 people going through the gate together, not a team, not a cohesive unit which is a shame because thats the way it has been for 7-8 years and now its all changed

[golfbooy]

All these attacks on TPTB and on actors/actresses for the horrid episodes seem to be increasing all the time, from what I'm seeing. It looks as though there are more dissatisfied people in the community now than a year ago. The attacks and demands have also been getting nastier and uglier.

It seems as though the only person really benefitting copmletely from the current state of SG-1 is Jonathan Glassner - as a creator I'm sure he gets paid royalties as long as its on (otherwise why would they list him as an "Executive Consultant").

I agree. I've been waiting for things to sort of quiet down as people get used to the way things are. But that's just not happening. If anything, I think people are more dissatisfied and angry with things now than they were at the beginning of the season. The writers are certainly taking a lot of heat, mostly, it seems to me, over Mitchell. Perhaps Joe has just been riling the situation up with his constant campaigning, but I'm having serious doubts as to whether or not they'll ever be able to really integrate him into the team now.

And I don't think it's just people not wanting things to change. Sure, there is some of that, but the extent and depth of complaints goes beyond not wanting things to be different. I think the problem is that while everyone knew that change was inevitable, many expected those changes to actually be addressed on screen. For the life of me, I don't know how the writers came to the conclusion that it would be better to just not talk about the changes. On screen, we don't know why Jack left. We don't know why Carter returned or why she'd choose to serve under Mitchell or co-command with him depending on your interpretation. We don't know why a combat pilot with no experience would be put in charge of these three super-experienced people. We don't know why or when Teal'c decided to rejoin SG-1 instead of remaining with the Jaffa. We haven't been given any reasons for why the characters have done what they've done. And that's just lazy writing.

Add on to that dissatisfaction the upcoming, insane, almost-100%-guaranteed-not-to-be-any-good

Spoiler:

Shark Baby

plotline, and there's not a whole lot for people to get excited about. There's also talk of massive crossovers next season. That's also a bad idea by many people's estimation.

Stargate has gone through periods of relative fan displeasure before, but there always seemed like something cooler and better was coming up to get people excited about. I think many fans are frustrated because that doesn't seem to be the case for the future. If this is what TPTB wanted to do, then I think they should have fought harder to change the name of the show. Right now, people probably do have expectations that what we get will be somewhat similar to what SG-1 has been in the past. I don't know what corporate factors convinced them otherwise, but I think alot of fans would be more accepting of this season it wasn't being passed off as SG-1.

[Skydiver]

i think my issues is far from the actors that are in the show, rather how those actors are being utalized.

vala has promise...if she's not the cliched sex kitten. landry could be so much more if he's given a chance. so could cam.

we could have some great issues between cam and sam, a bit of a 'who's the boss' tug of war...but will we?

or will we continue with endless homages to other shows/movies? will we continue to have female characters that seem to be little more than a sum of thier costuming or will they get some real depth to them??

If what i keep hearing, that there are 'endless stories to tell', well then tell them FCOL. spin the yarns and put them forth


Personally? i don't hold out a ton of hope. i think there are too many mitigating factors. too few people doing too much work with too much outside pressure

there will be some gems, however like a mine that's about exhausted, i'm starting to think that the show is the same way.

time will tell

[dipsofjazz]

Customer service studies show that a dissastisfied customer will tell 10 people about the poor service, whereas a satisfied customer is less likely to spread the good word. The moral is that apparently misery loves company.
It seems to me that this has been the most tumultuous of all the seasons for SG1, what with the loss of RDA, the star. Thusly, the dissatisfied are going to come out in droves to express their frustration and, well, dissatisfaction with the new direction. That's why you see more nastiness and complaining--there's a lot of change and, therefore, more to complain about.

I agree with you. I have never seen so many complaints about the show from all factions of fans.

The new actors and actresses are talented and competent, so we can't really say they're bad actors, because they're not. All you can really say about Ben Browder is that he's not Richard Dean Anderson. All you can really say about Beau Bridges is that he's not Don Davis, Claudia Black isn't Amanda Tapping, etc. Not one of those three actors is a hack and all have been acknowledged as competent professionals.

So, until RDA comes back and Browder, Black and Bridges are gone, the SG1 universe will never be set right for those who don't like the show's new direction.

I’m not so sure I agree with you here. I was all set to give the new cast a chance, but I feel the writing has let them down terribly. I do miss having RDA in the show, and I know that Browder will never be able to replace him (for me), but his character is such a great disappointment…not to mention all the pimping of this character by TPTB (and JM continues to defend him) which has actually helped to put me off the character even more!. Much as I love the ‘old’ SG-1, I realise that those days are over. The new cast may have been accepted a little better by the viewers if the writers had only continued to write Stargate in the same style as the show I’d been watching for the last eight years. I really don’t recognize this ‘comedy hour, sexed-up, to-hell-with-the-military, plot-hole-what-plot-hole, let’s have everyone behaving out of character so we can fit in Vala’ show!

[esoap524]

You seem to making the assumption that people dislike the 9th season of SG-1 only because of the change in actors. I can't speak for others, but I was looking forward to these changes and hoped they would bring some life into a stagnating series. I was wrong -- my main issue with the last season still stands: the poor quality of writing.

I am indeed making that assumption because a lot of the complaints were directed at the casting changes.

As for writing quality, because I'm only a casual fan, I can't address that one way or the other. I can only think of one episode that springs to mind as "outstanding", and that was a season 1 Jack episode that involved his son and ex wife. I can't remember the name, an alien took the form of his son, both he and his ex wife were able to see Charlie in that form again. I'm sure there are others like that, though.

Overall, the episodes I've seen are okay, both before and during season 9. That, of course, is my opinion only.

[Nem2k]

The new cast may have been accepted a little better by the viewers if the writers had only continued to write Stargate in the same style as the show I’d been watching for the last eight years. I really don’t recognize this ‘comedy hour, sexed-up, to-hell-with-the-military, plot-hole-what-plot-hole, let’s have everyone behaving out of character so we can fit in Vala’ show!

i think thats it for me. having watched through stargate from the beginning, getting to avalon made me think wtf?
i was about 10minutes into it and it just 'felt' different. not sure why. it felt kinda cheap and the style and feel of the show had changed drastically going form S8 to 9

[GeekingOnward]

Customer service studies show that a dissastisfied customer will tell 10 people about the poor service, whereas a satisfied customer is less likely to spread the good word. The moral is that apparently misery loves company.

It seems to me that this has been the most tumultuous of all the seasons for SG1, what with the loss of RDA, the star. Thusly, the dissatisfied are going to come out in droves to express their frustration and, well, dissatisfaction with the new direction. That's why you see more nastiness and complaining--there's a lot of change and, therefore, more to complain about.

The new actors and actresses are talented and competent, so we can't really say they're bad actors, because they're not. All you can really say about Ben Browder is that he's not Richard Dean Anderson. All you can really say about Beau Bridges is that he's not Don Davis, Claudia Black isn't Amanda Tapping, etc. Not one of those three actors is a hack and all have been acknowledged as competent professionals.

So, until RDA comes back and Browder, Black and Bridges are gone, the SG1 universe will never be set right for those who don't like the show's new direction.

Yes, dissatisfied customers tell more people about their dissatisfaction, but, misery’s love of company may take a back seat to warning other potential customers off a bad product.

And no, I do not like season 9 of Stargate SG-1, I do, in fact think it’s been dreck with (very) occasional rises to below average, but, I personally do not want RDA back, nor Browder, Black and Bridges gone. I do want the "Browder/Mitchell and Vala/Black Promotion Machine And Pimping Campaign" gone, though. I find anything that's shoved down my throat sticks in my craw.

I want better stories and better dialogue and better characters, and evidence of intelligence, memory, and forethought from those thinking up the stories and characters and writing the scripts they appear in. I want better writing and better plots – plots and writing that are actually good, engaging, intelligent, and thought-provoking may be too much to hope for, but I want them, too, if they’re within the realm of possibility. I want believable, three dimensional characters interact with each other in a manner I find engaging, and who give me a reason to care about them beyond the fact that they appear on my TV screen.

I want fewer clichés: (fighter pilot = hero who is rewarded by a Peter Principle promotion into a position he shows neither training nor experience, nor, actually aptitude to fill; egotistical general with no apparent ability to make others want to follow him, except maybe to place the grenades if they decide to go for a fragging; bad girl, criminal-who’s-supposed-to-be-forgiven-because-she’s-so-much-fun-socially-and-commercially?-and-sexually? bimbo, ogle-object, trash-talking very-available sidekick plot device that shows up and takes over any plot she appears in; unprofessionally dressed while-on-base-on-duty female doctor, who, like so many other soap opera characters before her, has personal issues with the most powerful man in her work environment; religious fanatics costumed in robes and take-offs of monks’ cowls; handcuffing together people who don’t get along; beings impersonating gods to gain power from their worshippers; the bag guy’s hiding on Earth!; visually interesting but non-functional blade weapons; cultures that use energy weapons, and technological stealth in a given set of circumstances in one ep, then use bladed weapons and abandon their stealth under the same circumstances in another ep just so that a gratuitous action sequence can be inserted; all men enjoy playing sports; martial arts = oriental milieu; "hero" = "funny"; adjustable character IQ’s that rise and fall to meet the needs of the plot-moment; costumes by the House of Gandalf and Your Local Renn Faire; gratuitous action/flying/swordfighting/alien halberd scenes; etc.)

I want a Season 9 (10, etc.) that seems to serve a purpose for the franchise besides making season 8 (which I thought was fairly lame, when it was in first run) and before, look good by comparison.

[AGateFan]

You seem to making the assumption that people dislike the 9th season of SG-1 only because of the change in actors. I can't speak for others, but I was looking forward to these changes and hoped they would bring some life into a stagnating series. I was wrong -- my main issue with the last season still stands: the poor quality of writing.

I too am fine with Browder and Bridges and would be ok with Black if that character was just recurring. But they are taking the show far far in a direction I have no intrest in going. First the tight leather rogue\slaver is made into the cliche "shes bad but shes got a heart of gold cliche which makes all her badness quite fine" scifi female cliche and now the tight leather rogue slaver with a heart of gold is getting a little sidekick... Too much like the last pathetic seasons of Xena Warrior Princess. I always encouaged people to watch stargate because it was NOT this.... now I must encourage people not to watch.

The days of women being treated like equal competant people has come to an end. Now they are only love intrest or considered "competent" by TPTB if they can manipulate people. Because we all know that women are only interested in manipulating people... I miss Capt\Maj Samantha Carter and Dr Fraisier.

[Domesticated Equine]

As for writing quality, because I'm only a casual fan, I can't address that one way or the other.

<snip>

Overall, the episodes I've seen are okay, both before and during season 9. That, of course, is my opinion only.

I've seen every episode of Stargate but I wouldn't really consider myself much more than a casual fan nowadays. I too consider that the general quality of the show has been 'okay' during its existence but I maintain that the quality has dropped drastically especially in season 9.

I too am fine with Browder and Bridges and would be ok with Black if that character was just recurring.

I'd like to clarify my statement -- while the writing is my main issue with this season, I'm throughly dissatisfied with the addition of the new characters and think that despite my hopes these changes have lowered the quality of the show. Furthermore, there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel as the addition of Vala as a regular next season seems very likely to result in disaster.

As an aside, I really liked Farscape and both Browder and Black as actors in that show, so my criticism is not directed towards them as persons or actors or even towards their perfomance during this season.

[Skydiver]

. I do want the "Browder/Mitchell and Vala/Black Promotion Machine And Pimping Campaign" gone, though. I find anything that's shoved down my throat sticks in my craw.

.

which only goes to confirm my personal opinion that the only actors that count are ben and claudia and the only characters that are important are cam and vala

I think that the daniel and vala comedy hour was used two fold

a) to 'buy off' his fans. Many of the passionate daniel fans are predictible in a way that they will love and adore any plotline in which he is prominate. And many of those same fans hate sam and could be easily manipulated to endorse vala in the hopes that vala's inclusion would lead to sam's dismissal.

b) a way to downplay the cam/vala farscape angle until it was too late.

I think they used the daniel/vala angle to ease the character's introduction, but in s10 the show will take a decided cam/vala angle, leaving daniel out in the cold.

emphasizing cam and vala has a two fold plus.
a) the actors are cheaper since they're new
b) they have a built in fan base, many of which want to see the two characters together

s11, if it happens, will very likely see the departure of the regular sg actors. MS has already hinted at this with his comment about the actors not being as important as the franchise