S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ShadowMaat]

Whether or not the fan campaign aided in Daniel's return or not is kinda moot: as far as the fans are concerned, they ARE responsible and a few of them even feel entitled because of it.

And, true or not, the whole campaign gets shoved at us any time anything else happens that some group doesn't like and it becomes a rallying cry: SDJ brought back Daniel, we can make TPTB do what WE want, too! Whether it's demanding that ship be made real and undeniable, or demanding that such-and-such a character be removed or demanding that such-and-such character be returned or demanding that some plot point be justified... Are you sensing a theme here?

Me, I am happy to run around saying how much I think the show sucks now and how it used to be so much better and how I wish it had been cancelled and all that... but I draw the line at DEMANDING things from TPTB. I'm not going to start a campaign DEMANDING that the show end taking out ads and and launching anti-Stargate campaigns... I may be vocal, but I'm not psychotic about the show. I also won't write to TPTB telling them they deserve to die for what they've done to the show (left to hang by their toenails, maybe ) and I won't write fics for the sole purpose of eviscerating Vala.

I don't like what TPTB have done to the show, but it's THEIR show and I know that no matter how much I complain, it isn't going to affect anything. But it makes ME feel better to voice my feelings, it's good to know that I'm not alone in how I feel and regardless of whether or not it changes things, at least I know I'm being heard.

[Skydiver]

"When you get an emotional reaction like the one I got from the Stargate fans - from people who've probably spent more money advertising their support than the show itself has spent - it's quite flattering to learn you've made such an impact. That's a large part of the reason why I returned to the show in the seventh season, as there was a certain feeling that if I was asked and said no, then I'd be the one at fault this time around. I decided that if the audience felt there was still a place where this character should go, then I should feel that too, and it's been great ever since"

see, this sounds to me like an actor who is letting his fans, or fear of his fans' reactions, control his personal decisions. which might not be the best thing for his career. there are many daniel fans out there who have a marked preference for s1 daniel, and want s1 daniel to exist forever. they want the 'innocent' 'naive' longhaired bumbler and they don't care if that characterization is years out of date.

to me? if daniel went through 9 years and never changed, as a persformer i'd be bored still basically playing the exact same job week after week after week. I'd be afraid of being typecast and pigeonholed

I'm sure the attention was flattering...but - to me - once the campaign took on a dark hue and people began expressing threats in the name of 'save daniel jackson', i personally wouldn't want to encourage that, i'd want them to stop.

we all know that tptb say that they just make the show...but situations like daniel, like anise and others suggest that they do listen to fans.

well, the problem with that, NOTHING they can ever do will please everyone. and the more they appear to be taking one side over another, the more fans they are turning away, and, in the perception of some, the more damage they are doing to the show.

[AGateFan]

here's a question for you guys...

we're all upset about this or that (relates to our own tastes), but what i'd like to know is if any of you think things will get better? like, the things we're complaing about will actually get fixed for next season?

me... no, i don't think anything's really going to change. the ptb don't seem to think anything's wrong, so what's to change?




sally

I agree, nothing will be fixed. Unless you count the show being cancelled as "fixed"... which depending on how badly it is destroyed I probably will. I feel ill just thinking about it.

[Skydiver]

i think the boys at bridge will keep doing exactly what scifi tells them to do...even if that advice is interpreted my many fans as 'bad'

i really don't think scifi cares about the show, i think they just want the flash in the pan ratings and then they will drop it.

[LaCroix]

i think the boys at bridge will keep doing exactly what scifi tells them to do...even if that advice is interpreted my many fans as 'bad'

i really don't think scifi cares about the show, i think they just want the flash in the pan ratings and then they will drop it.

In my opinion, I think somewhere around Oct. of next year we'll get a message from Sci-Fi that they're dropping the rest of S10.

That's after they'll claim to have the longest running Sci-fi show on their net. Remeber they only need 2 episodes in S10 in order to do this. But will want a safety margin.

[Skydiver]

if they're gonna cancel it mid season, we'll hear in july or so. that's when bridge takes its mid season break, june/july/aug area. they start taping jan/feb, though early summer, take a month off, then start back up around august and tape through november

I had no doubt the show would get a s10, and i really think that'll be it. they will cite expenses and cancel the show, putting fans off with promises of movies of the week, which they'll probably deliver on one or two of them before it dies like the Pretender did.

atlantis...atlantis will be very much up in the air. its main advantage is that it's new so the actors are getting paid less, but as soon as something glitzier comes along it'll get dropped too

[ToasterOnFire]

Thanks Skydiver, that was an interesting read of the Daniel/MS history. It also helped explain a lot of behaviors that I've seen with certain segments of the fandom.

they didn't fall. in fact the show was such a phenominal success that scifi bought another season, and another, and another and another and signed off on 3 years of a spin off

Huh, didn't know that the ratings stayed up that season. So that would imply that MS's return is either due to MS and TPTB wanting him back, the strength of the fanbase movement, or more likely a combination of the two. I just don't know how much the fanbase influenced things, and maybe it's better that we don't know...

And, true or not, the whole campaign gets shoved at us any time anything else happens that some group doesn't like and it becomes a rallying cry: SDJ brought back Daniel, we can make TPTB do what WE want, too! Whether it's demanding that ship be made real and undeniable, or demanding that such-and-such a character be removed or demanding that such-and-such character be returned or demanding that some plot point be justified... Are you sensing a theme here?

See, this is the problem with letting a fandom know or assume that their likes and dislikes push where a show is going. It gives fans a sense of entitlement and creates subfactions in the fandom. Fans of certain characters will push for more screentime. Shippers will push for their ship, other shippers will push for another ship, and nonshippers will push for no ship. Fans will start bombarding TPTB en masse. Tons of petitions will be made, (even more) letters will pour in, and TPTB will either dismiss fans as crazy or try and meet everyone's request and get nowhere.

I sometimes think having a strong and informal association between TPTB and fandom, such as with Joe's blog and the Ask thread, may actually give the fandom such assumptions and make things worse...

atlantis...atlantis will be very much up in the air. its main advantage is that it's new so the actors are getting paid less, but as soon as something glitzier comes along it'll get dropped too

Ah, there's another question. Would ending SG1 after the tenth season help or hurt Atlantis? There's good arguments on both sides of that debate.

[ShadowMaat]

Ah, there's another question. Would ending SG1 after the tenth season help or hurt Atlantis? There's good arguments on both sides of that debate.

I'm not sure how relevant that is here, but as I've said on other threads I have this creeping sense of horror that if/when SG-1 FINALLY ends, TPTB will just use Atlantis as an excuse to keep SG-1 "alive" with even more crossovers and quite probably some characters moving there permanently.

As if SG-1 hasn't become ENOUGH of an embarrassment...

[Sum1]

You also have to remember, however, that the creators are making the show for the audience to view, so there is some legitimate sense of entitlement on the part of the viewers - the viewer should be entitled to receive the best effort the writer was able to put into his work (sometimes that will be good and soemtimes it won't) but not some extremely sub-par episodes the writers wrote since they were too lazy to come up with anything better and slacked off - nobody likes people who don't put effort into their work after all. The problem is when that is taken to an extreme and turns into demands, as Shadowmaat pointed out earlier.

As for your question on Atlantis, I don't think the show ever managed to take off the ground. It has been horribly sub-par, especially with this dreadful season. Sure, it's entertaining, but beyond that it offers little value. It's all about the new effects and explosions, with the characters continuously being dumbed down and made stupid for humour and to drive along the show's re-hashed SG-1 plots. This is actually represented in the syndication ratings, which are much lower than SG-1's. Unfortunately, Atlantis suffers from being a great premise that has been poorly executed due to bad writing, which is somewhat mitigated due to good acting. Overall, though, garbage is still garbage, even if you decorate it a bit with fancy explosions.

[ShadowMaat]

Keep Mallozzi and Mullie out of Atlantis! Dear gods, The Tower was atrocious. If this is anything like how they're murdering SG-1, well... it won't take long before even the most die-hard fans start to wince at the unadulterated stupidity being shat out by M&M.

And there's a differencem IMO, between thinking the producers should listen to the fans and DEMANDING that TPTB do EXACTLY as the fangroup of the week says.

[Skydiver]

I'm not sure how relevant that is here, but as I've said on other threads I have this creeping sense of horror that if/when SG-1 FINALLY ends, TPTB will just use Atlantis as an excuse to keep SG-1 "alive" with even more crossovers and quite probably some characters moving there permanently.

As if SG-1 hasn't become ENOUGH of an embarrassment...

that is a possibiilty. i see atlantis going on for one season after sg1 gets canned. if it benefits from tptb not being stretched thin, it might redeem itself (course, i'm still enjoying the stories on atlantis more than i am sg1, i just don't have an actor who captures my attention, which is one reason i've never really gotten into it.)

but, like you said, if atlantis turns into the 'we can't get a job anywhere else sg1 actor refugee home' then it could definitely harm the show.

a few guest shots? sure, why not. sam, daniel, cameron or lord forbid,vala joining the cast????? here sharky, sharky, sharky

Right now, atlantis' greatest weakness is being tied to sg1. same creators, same writers, same mistakes being made on both shows

[Skydiver]

And there's a differencem IMO, between thinking the producers should listen to the fans and DEMANDING that TPTB do EXACTLY as the fangroup of the week says.

yeah. while people can certainly like and appreciate certain aspects of a show, writing tptb, givinig them a list of requirements then taking them to task for not meeting those requirements is pretty spooky

[Nem2k]

yeah. while people can certainly like and appreciate certain aspects of a show, writing tptb, givinig them a list of requirements then taking them to task for not meeting those requirements is pretty spooky

well i dont think many, if any, of us would go that far. you can express your opinions towards other fans, but I guess some of us prefer to do it in a way that tptb could hear as they are the ones who have control over the show

i know we as fans probably cant change anything in the show given that the anti s10 ppl are in the minority, but it would still be nice to think that tptb are listening to us. sure this business is about making money, of course it is, its tv! but the only way they can make money is if they create a show that ppl will watch
so I just think its dumb that tptb are guessing as to what we fans want instead of just listening to us. it sure would make things much easier at both ends

[Skydiver]

i agree. we hear time and time again taht 'we do what's best for the show'...yet it seems that, on more than one occasion, that's 'what's best for the show' seems to be fulfilling the requirements of some folks.

true or coincidence we'll never know. but there are folks out there that do make requirements of tptb. they count lines, they count minutes of screen time, etc, etc.

whatever floats your boat and everyone views the show in their own way. and yeah, i've sent a letter or ten over the years. but i've never said 'do this or else'....i've said more along the line of 'i really don't like this angle'

[Sum1]

Christ, people...

I realize I'm going to get flack for posting anything positive in an anti- thread, but I have to - there is a place for being anti- and that's cool, but all I've read for pages is "cancellation this" and "cancellation that," either you guys have run out of things to complain about or else you are in a rut.

Talk about why you don't like season 10, but please, get off this "The show is going to get cancelled soon/2 episodes into season 10/I hope the producers burn in the pits of Hades for changing the show" train.

Ok, I'll wait for a mod to berate me, get back to the anti- posts.

Part of the analysis being done in this thread includes possible future scenarios that the show may very well take that people are not pleased with, which is why there is talk about when and why cancellation might occur. Frankly, I haven't seen any comments talking about the "producers burning in the pits of Hades for ruining the show" as you put it, but if that's the way you see any complaint at all, then I'm not surprised you're launching this sort of attack against hte people who post here. That's not to say that everything said in this thread is correct or sometimes even appropriate, but that still doesn't justify the type of comment you made in generalizing everything that has been said on the thread.