S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ShadowMaat]

The significant loss is in S9? Ah. Then that's probably the right "loss", DQ. Although it's only significant to Earth/Stargate Command, not specifically to the SG-1 team.

[DarkQuee1]

The significant loss is in S9? Ah. Then that's probably the right "loss", DQ. Although it's only significant to Earth/Stargate Command, not specifically to the SG-1 team.

I'm going to have to retract this: I checked on GW and it appears the "Counterstrike" is not listed for this season (I could have sworn I originally read it to be this year), so my "loss" is wrong.

Spoiler:

Could end up being the Increasingly Annoying Sprog after all. Yep, let's repeat yet another storyline.

Like your sig, BTW. I actually worked Binky into a SG story!

J.

[majorsal]

I think the Bridge TPTB Love her only because Scifi TPTB are making them Love Vala.IMO the Bridge TPTB have made there share of mistakes but I really feel Scifi is calling the shots.I doubt Bridge would have brought in BB and CB.I also feel if it was up to Bridge SG-1 as a Weekly Series would have ended by now and we would have had SG-1 Movies.I always remembered JM saying no RDA no New Seasons.I really hope in a couple of Years we find out the real story on what happened to this Show.

i'd like to know *now* what's going on!



sally

[majorsal]

here's a question for you guys...

we're all upset about this or that (relates to our own tastes), but what i'd like to know is if any of you think things will get better? like, the things we're complaing about will actually get fixed for next season?

me... no, i don't think anything's really going to change. the ptb don't seem to think anything's wrong, so what's to change?




sally

[Hatcheter]

So, would it be out of place of me to say that y'all are using "Bridge" when you really mean "MGM/Sony"? Cause you are. Bridge is the studio facility where the show is filmed, and isn't actually an authority for Stargate, or all the other television and film production that goes on there. MGM/Sony is who pays for and is incharge of Stargate, and pays to rent the space at Bridge. SciFi buys the shows from MGM.

This has been a pointless info post. We now return to your regularly scheduled angst.

[Skydiver]

for me, when i use 'bridge' i'm referring to the writers/producers of the show, as a way to differentiate them out of the generic tptb which can refer to anyone from the writers to the president of scifi

[ShadowMaat]

Nope. The Bridge has been burned, so to speak, and the show is only going to get worse from now on.

[Nem2k]

hopefully if theres enough of a fan uprising like there was with the daniel jackson S6 thing then TPTB will realise something needs changing

i mean, there have been times in the past where fans have changed the way the show has played out. bringing daniel jackson back was one of them. the fact that they wanted to kill off klorel in S1 but the fans enjoyed his character so they kept him in the show, that was another time

[ShadowMaat]

The complainers are still in the minority. Nothing is going to change in our favor no matter how much we scream.

[chocdoc]

hopefully if theres enough of a fan uprising like there was with the daniel jackson S6 thing then TPTB will realise something needs changing

i mean, there have been times in the past where fans have changed the way the show has played out. bringing daniel jackson back was one of them. the fact that they wanted to kill off klorel in S1 but the fans enjoyed his character so they kept him in the show, that was another time

I think the daniel jackson situation was very different than this. The actor was OFF the show for various reasons, and a group of fans wanted him back. In the current situation, there are a number of problems that a number of fans see, but I don't think there is a clear consensus on what the most important problems are----there are various problems, not just one, and varying opinions about each of these problems. Plus, people haven't even seen the second half of season 9! I think many fans take a wait and see approach?

Many Daniel fans thought that Daniel was sidelined in season 5 and then in 7, and part of 8, but they didn't "campaign" about this, because it is difficult to compaign about the direction of the show, versus trying to get an actor back on the show. Very different. In the present case, it is difficult to campaign for change when you're not even sure what the direction for the show is. TPTB already knows that many fans want more team episodes--it is up to them to give them to us.

[ToasterOnFire]

Could someone please inform me about the whole Daniel/MS/season six debacle? I wasn't around the fandom then and I'm curious how much his return was made possible by fan petitions vs. MS deciding to return/TPTB deciding to take him back vs. if the ratings fell in season six.

I'm not really sure how much power your general fanbase has in changing a show. I think in the end it all comes down to ratings - if most of the fandom doesn't like where the show is going (and I figure that's currently not the case for SG1) but it's still getting high ratings then I would imagine little to nothing would change. The reverse is also true - if the fandom loves a show but it gets poor ratings you can bet it's not going to stick around long (see:Firefly).

[Seshat]

I must agree with this and what others have said here re: the power of fandom. The only thing that matters is ratings. And how the network interprets them. Pure and simple.

Fans visit here every day and some acquire the feeling that what they say and think matters to TPTB. I seriously doubt that. We who visit GW are just a small part of the viewing audience. The overall ratings and whether or the network can continue to make money on the show are all that matters in reality. This is NOT a statement against the network or the producers. It is just a business fact. No matter how dear the show is to our hearts (or used to be dear ), the hard fact is that it only matters whether or not it can be made at a profit.

Even if the show were revamped into 60 minutes of snowy screen, if it got good ratings and made money, it would stay on the air.

[Skydiver]

oh that's a loaded question.

ok, to preface this, this is from MY pov, which is only one 'side' of the story. I'm one of those people that really didn't care for the character from the beginning, at first, admired him for having the guts to quit and stand up for himself, had that admiration wane as interview after interview got more and more petulant during s6 and have only now started to be able to really like watching the character. He still isn't my favorite, and i find it hard to really like the character since, to many of his fans, to pump up daniel they have to tear down sam. The attitudes and behaviors of his fans have turned me off the character a bit adn i don't think i'll ever really enjoy watching him like i did back in the earlier seasons.

at gatecon 2001, attendees got the shocking news that daniel would be leaving the show. and yes, it was a bit shocking. I was in the audience. it's rare that you have a room of 500 people fall dead silent (well, cept for a few sobs)

it was announced that ms had decided not to return/resign for s6. it was contract negotation time, the actor having been initially signed on for 2 seasons, then showtime picked it up for 3 more and the actors were all obligated (if they chose) to remain.

with the move to scifi, contracts were renegotiated and MS did not resign.

initially, many daniel fans were shocked and angry and took that anger out on the actor himself. the MSOOF board literally imploded. However, while many fans were upset, others really didn't care.

after a bit, that anger was changed and it was perceived that MS had asked for changes, expressed concerns about his character that he did not feel were addressed adequately so he chose to leave. The anger was then moved from him to TPTB (the writers/directors/producert) for not accomodating MS' requests/concerns.

throughout all this, the con was in july, the actors had just taped meridian, daniel's departure episode, which woudl not be seen until Feb/March of the next year. so there were a good six months for things to stew and mix adn brew.

The show went on. Jonas Quinn was created, he was introduced in Meridian and joined the show in Redemption.

fans were convinced, however, if they expressed their unhappiness loudly and enough times and ways that they could either convince MS to change his mind or - since tptb were perceive to be the bad guys - convince tptb to bring MS back.

it didn't work. season 6 went on as planned. MS did have 3 guest shots along with guesting roles as thor, however he was not returned to his status as supporting actor of the show.

then comes season 7. the choice was made to not take up corin's option for a second season (corin had been signed for 2 years even though s7 hadnt' been approved) and MS was returned to the show.

throughout all this, from july 2001 to the end of 2002 MS fans wrote letters, bought ads, set up web sites, flooded mgm's fax machine with their letters, were a presence at various fan gatherings and basically did all they could to make thier presence known and noticed.

some of them took exception to the character of Jonas Quinn and directed their anger towards him. so much anger was directed that, at gatecon 2002, MGM upped thier security requirements for the actors because they feared that someone might let thier passion override their common sense.

What happened in the fandom was, while many MS fans were upset at the loss of their favored character, many other fans really didn't care. And weren't afraid to say so and this set up some disagreements between fans. Fans that didn't care if MS left got tired of it being daniel, daniel, daniel everywhere, while fans who did care that MS was gone took offense to what they saw as insensitivity on the part of the other fans.

In interviews, MS cited the Sam and Jack angle and a focus on that being one reason that Daniel was 'marginalized' so that story arc of Sam and Jack became a focal point for some Daniel fans and their anger was directed towards that story arc and anyone who liked that story arc.

And you have a reversal of the 'i don't like' and 'you're insensitive' issues over MS leaving, this time between shippers and anti-shippers.

Lists were made to discuss the MS fans' strategies, lists were made to get away from the incessant Daniel focus that many lists took on

many of the passionate daniel fans were fans who owned many of the major sites in the fandom. And, when the campaign started, they used thier sites to support it. And anyone who did not agree with their campaign was booted off or kicked out. many, what used to be general sites, became very daniel centric, as part of the campaign to prove how vital daniel was.

(when fans of Daniel wanted to prove the need for thier favored character, episodes were gone over and analyzed, ususally with a daniel focus. To some, to prove that Daniel was important, then whenever there was a 'best episode' poll, daniel fans would attempt to prove that daniel was important to the show by making sure that daniel episodes won, while shippers would do just the same. if there was a best actor poll somewhere, MS fans would work to make sure that he was included.)

Professional journalists who happened to write an article about stargate were usually taken to task for not mentioning Daniel and MS, or noting his absence. to many of the fans stargate = daniel and they worked to insure that as many people as possible knew that.

Friends were made, but friendships were also lost. On some lists, if the list owner was a passionate MS fan and someone on the list wasn't and expressed that opinion, people sometimes found themselves banned or kicked off lists because thier opinion didn't fit into what the list owners felt was 'right'.

in all this, did the MS fans 'win'? Who knows. TPTB have said that the fan protests had nothing to do with getting MS back on the show. They've said that they don't do what fans want but what is best for the show. However, as i'm sure you can imagine, MS fans do feel that they've won.

Is the show better or worse? That's up to each person to decide. Better is in the eye of the beholder.

[Skydiver]

if the ratings fell in season six.

they didn't fall. in fact the show was such a phenominal success that scifi bought another season, and another, and another and another and signed off on 3 years of a spin off

[Nem2k]

great post skydiver

TPTB have said that the fan protests had nothing to do with getting MS back on the show. They've said that they don't do what fans want but what is best for the show

that seems like a pretty supid statement on their part because without the fans....would they even have a show?

and ur right in that nobody knows whether or not the Save Daniel campaign was the thing that brought the character back, but I did read in an interview that MS wanted to come back because of it so as far as the actor is concerned, that campaign was very influential:

"When you get an emotional reaction like the one I got from the Stargate fans - from people who've probably spent more money advertising their support than the show itself has spent - it's quite flattering to learn you've made such an impact. That's a large part of the reason why I returned to the show in the seventh season, as there was a certain feeling that if I was asked and said no, then I'd be the one at fault this time around. I decided that if the audience felt there was still a place where this character should go, then I should feel that too, and it's been great ever since"