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    Originally posted by Zoser
    I still watch Law and Order (although the world doesn't end if I miss it) but the last few years of NYPD Blue I stopped watching cause I just didn't care about those people anymore.
    With Stargate I love a good plot but also care about the people. Where are Hammond, Cassie and Jack? I morn
    Spoiler:
    Jacob and Janet
    . Why was Sam passed over for command and why did she let it happen? The woman we met in the first episode would not have stood for that.
    I'm starting not to care.
    She was passed over to fit in with the "new and improved" plot. In the new SG-1, the plot drives the characters instead of the characters driving the plot. This is especially true if Vala is in an episode, where she is portrayed as "strong" and "intelligent" not because she really is, but because all the characters are dummed down and written to be stupid to make her look good. The characters on Atlantis are all also made stupid to fit into plots. So far, the only one spared from this has been the cliched Colonel Caldwell.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Sum1
      In the new SG-1, the plot drives the characters instead of the characters driving the plot
      that is why i always said that the team SG-1 are more important that the stories. it never felt like SG-1 are there for the sake of going on missions, it always felt like we were following a great group of people who happen to do amazing things...that was until S9 and the show just turned on its head and now its about everything but the team
      - Simon



      "Life. Its far more important than what you do for a living" - RDA

      "It's crazy cool!" - AT

      My Site: www.Glass-Prison.com

      (Update: GABIT AT2 Convention report uploaded)

      Comment


        Originally posted by ShadowMaat
        Daniel de-ascended without his brain, obviously. Sounds a lot like certain people I won't mention.
        I read this interesting opinion blog regarding Daniel's ascension (thanks Agent Dark for finding this!):

        http://www.livejournal.com/users/morgan32/12008.html

        And all of a sudden a question came to my mind from reading the above...what if the person who came back in Fallen wasn't Daniel at all?

        What if Oma had Ori leanings (not completely as she didn't report to the Ori about the existence of the people in the Milky Way to the Ori) and sent back a likeness of Daniel? Maybe the Daniel of Threads was for a brief moment a little too much like our Daniel to the point of convincing her to sacrifice herself to get rid of Anubis...but other than that, he bears little resemblance to the compassionate, soulful Daniel of old.

        I say this because it would go a long way as to explaining his massive personality overhaul of the past couple of years.

        This could be a clever storyline if done well...you know, if he's not Daniel then who is he and where is Daniel...or...if he is Daniel then what did Oma do to him to make him this way and can he be fixed?

        *if done well*

        Yeah...I know. What was I thinking?
        Last edited by Uber; 05 December 2005, 01:05 PM.

        ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

        Comment


          Sounds really clever and would be a wonderful explanation/rationalization for those of us who hate what Daniel has become. Unfortunately, as far as MS and TPTB are concerned, Daniel is f***ing brilliant the way he is now and they want him to continue being this newer, cooler Daniel 2.0. They would never be willing to go down the "it isn't really Daniel" route.

          Although I have to say, for those first few eps of S7, I really did wonder if it was really Daniel or not...

          Then I stopped watching.

          Comment


            Originally posted by ShadowMaat
            Sounds really clever and would be a wonderful explanation/rationalization for those of us who hate what Daniel has become. Unfortunately, as far as MS and TPTB are concerned, Daniel is f***ing brilliant the way he is now and they want him to continue being this newer, cooler Daniel 2.0. They would never be willing to go down the "it isn't really Daniel" route.

            Although I have to say, for those first few eps of S7, I really did wonder if it was really Daniel or not...

            Then I stopped watching.
            If it's really clever, don't expect it to happen.

            Comment


              To be positive about Daniel... it could be him arguing against Vala. Landry comes across (in the episodes I've seen) as a bit of an idiot anyway, so I wouldn't put it past him to add Vala to the team.

              Oh, Daniel Jackson. I used to really like the character. For me he hit a little bit of a bump in One False Step (childish tantrum vs. Jack's more adult response to the alien chemical), but he really started to slide from like to meh from season 4 to the end of season 5 (great send-off though (Jack who?)).

              I think some of the changes, especially in S7, come partly as a result of the writers writing the more military/action orientated Jonas, and partly MS seeing that sort of character type as something to move towards (without the nice, unfortunately).
              It's very weird seeing it in a character who had no interest in the military side for 5+ years.

              Originally posted by ShadowMaat
              Sounds really clever and would be a wonderful explanation/rationalization for those of us who hate what Daniel has become. Unfortunately, as far as MS and TPTB are concerned, Daniel is f***ing brilliant the way he is now and they want him to continue being this newer, cooler Daniel 2.0. They would never be willing to go down the "it isn't really Daniel" route.

              Although I have to say, for those first few eps of S7, I really did wonder if it was really Daniel or not...

              Then I stopped watching.
              I'd worry it'd give the PTB ideas.
              Fan: Why has Daniel changed so much?
              PTB: because Oma was bad
              Fan: but... but... Oma stopped Anubis
              PTB: Um... I'll get back to you... maybe... look, half naked ladies!

              Comment


                Chiming in on the topic of Daniel. This is Shanks' own words on the changes to the character, from the recent SciFi magazine, IIRC.

                How do you feel about the changes in Daniel’s character over the last few years? Do you feel he has become jaded? Is he still the moral driving force, or has he taken on a more of a military point of view?

                Michael Shanks – Dr. Daniel Jackson:
                No, first of all, I don’t think that the character has become jaded at all, but I think what Daniel has done is he’s had to adapt himself to different relationships, interactions, and situations, and I think, given his experience, that the evolution of the character is consistent with the development of any human who would be put into these types of situations. So I feel that the character still remains the moral compass of the show, but in his own defense he’s become a much more rounded individual as a result of his experiences—as someone who has drawn from his experience as opposed to his idealistic point of view.


                a time to mourn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Hatcheter
                  Chiming in on the topic of Daniel. This is Shanks' own words on the changes to the character, from the recent SciFi magazine, IIRC.
                  No offense to Mr. Shanks, but AFAIC Daniel didn't evolve slowly from his experiences. The metamorphosis into Action!Daniel was sudden and apparently driven by motives outside of his character and canon.

                  Maybe it was a growth spurt.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Seshat
                    No offense to Mr. Shanks, but AFAIC Daniel didn't evolve slowly from his experiences. The metamorphosis into Action!Daniel was sudden and apparently driven by motives outside of his character and canon.

                    Maybe it was a growth spurt.
                    and somehow I just don't see MS sitting around answering that question by saying - well he has turned into a jerk hasn't he. MS has to say something along the lines of the schpiel he gives - but IMO that's all it is another schpiel to the poor fans who don't get it so we have to tell them that "it's all good, it's all great and you should believe everything we say or else you are just wrong - love it because I say love it" - who cares what the fans actually think.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Hatcheter
                      Chiming in on the topic of Daniel. This is Shanks' own words on the changes to the character, from the recent SciFi magazine, IIRC.
                      As a Daniel fan I´m still uncertain about this whole situation: I would prefer a darker Daniel to a Daniel which is only one half of the Vala/Daniel slapstick duo. But the question is how dark can Daniel before he is no longer redeemable? And where will be his place when Mitchell is filling Daniels old shoes(what he does more than being a replacement for Jack) and Vala is (as he fans never get tired to tell) the new Jack?

                      And I have problems made a conection between MS words about Daniel
                      "in his own defenses he´s become a much more rounded individual as a result of his expierences" and having Daniel in season 9

                      S
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                      arguing with Landry for having Vala in the team??? Hadn´t Daniel stopped her in "Prometheus Unbound" Hammond and the Prometheus crew would have been dead. And I´m sure he knows that. So how can he want´s her as a part of the team. I can´t beliefe that Daniel would be so rotten that he means that someone who knows no remorse and is able to condemn dozens of innocents to a agonizing dead, because she wants a spaceship, it´s that what SG 1 needs to fullfill their tasks. If I think that it was Daniel who argued with Jack so passionatly in "The other side" about the weapon deal. Than can I only shake my had.
                      I still think that I interpret the spoilers wrong and that MS is right when he says that Daniel is still "the moral compass of the show" but I begin to feel uncomfortable with the situation.
                      I think the show is sacrificing maybe to much for bringing Claudia Black fulltime in the show.
                      Last edited by phoenixblue7500; 05 December 2005, 05:38 PM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by binkpmmc
                        and somehow I just don't see MS sitting around answering that question by saying - well he has turned into a jerk hasn't he. MS has to say something along the lines of the schpiel he gives - but IMO that's all it is another schpiel to the poor fans who don't get it so we have to tell them that "it's all good, it's all great and you should believe everything we say or else you are just wrong - love it because I say love it" - who cares what the fans actually think.
                        I think this is a bit unfair. I mean saying only good things about the show could be very well a part of the contract (I´m sure it is).
                        And he is often confronted with fans who are very much into Vala (go to the Stargate board on Delphi than you know what I mean) and season 9 so that could very well shape his opinion about what the fans want. And I remember that he seemed in interviews and some of his convetion panels by far not so much excited as you seem to believe. Sure he says that he enjoys season 9 but not very much more. And (different from other actors) he never bashed RDA (in fact he said always how much he enjoyed working with him) or the past seasons.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by phoenixblue7500
                          I think this is a bit unfair. I mean saying only good things about the show could be very well a part of the contract (I´m sure it is).
                          And he is often confronted with fans who are very much into Vala (go to the Stargate board on Delphi than you know what I mean) and season 9 so that could very well shape his opinion about what the fans want. And I remember that he seemed in interviews and some of his convetion panels by far not so much excited as you seem to believe. Sure he says that he enjoys season 9 but not very much more.
                          Well, none of us are ever really gonna know how much is hype and how much is real opinion on the part of anyone involved in the show. We are all just hypothesizing here.

                          I imagine someday after the show folds there will be a few interviews at a few cons and a few people will say a few things. And we still won't have a definitive answer.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by phoenixblue7500
                            As a Daniel fan I´m still uncertain about this whole situation: I would prefer a darker Daniel to a Daniel which is only one half of the Vala/Daniel slapstick duo. But the question is how dark can Daniel before he is no longer redeemable? And where will be his place when Mitchell is filling Daniels old shoes(what he does more than being a replacement for Jack) and Vala is (as he fans never get tired to tell) the new Jack?

                            And I have problems made a conection between MS words about Daniel
                            "in his own defenses he´s become a much more rounded individual as a result of his expierences" and having Daniel in season 9

                            S
                            P
                            O
                            I
                            L
                            E
                            R

                            arguing with Landry for having Vala in the team??? Hadn´t Daniel stopped her in "Prometheus Unbound" Hammond and the Prometheus crew would have been dead. And I´m sure he knows that. So how can he want´s her as a part of the team. I can´t beliefe that Daniel would be so rotten that he means that someone who knows no remorse and is able to condemn dozens of innocents to a agonizing dead, because she wants a spaceship, it´s that what SG 1 needs to fullfill their tasks. If I think that it was Daniel who argued with Jack so passionatly in "The other side" about the weapon deal. Than can I only shake my had.
                            I still think that I interpret the spoilers wrong and that MS is right when he says that Daniel is still "the moral compass of the show" but I begin to feel uncomfortable with the situation.
                            I think the show is sacrificing maybe to much for bringing Claudia Black fulltime in the show.
                            Mitchell as a replacement for Daniel? Why can't they give this character his own personality.

                            Personally, I have always disliked Vala moreso now that she's being thrust onto the show as a regular for season 10. What really annoys me with her is that she has no purpose whatsoever. People argue that she's a "breath of fresh air" because she's different, but there are plenty of other ways to add a new interation for the characters.

                            Getting back to Mitchell, why didn't they give him a completely different personality from the cliched hero, such as a Patton-esque nutcase who's a daredevil - that certainly would have been interesting to see, epsecially his interactions with the other members of SG-1. He would have been the "breath of fresh air" instead of Vala if played correctly and the characters wouldn't need to be butchered to fit her in.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by smurf
                              To be positive about Daniel... it could be him arguing against Vala. Landry comes across (in the episodes I've seen) as a bit of an idiot anyway, so I wouldn't put it past him to add Vala to the team.
                              When I read Joe's statement, my thought was that it would be *Landry* arguing that Vala should be on SG-1. No reason, just a feeling. Daniel would be arguing very strongly against it, but Landry would want her there because his superiors want her on the team because she maybe has some secret knowledge or power to help defeat the Ori (baby shark?) The government uses all sorts of untrustworthy people if it serves their purpose. But then, I thought, well...if Landry's superiors wanted it, he wouldn't have to argue with Daniel about it. SG-1 is a military operation and they can do whatever they want really *without* Daniel's approval.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                                I read this interesting opinion blog regarding Daniel's ascension (thanks Agent Dark for finding this!):

                                http://www.livejournal.com/users/morgan32/12008.html

                                And all of a sudden a question came to my mind from reading the above...what if the person who came back in Fallen wasn't Daniel at all?

                                What if Oma had Ori leanings (not completely as she didn't report to the Ori about the existence of the people in the Milky Way to the Ori) and sent back a likeness of Daniel? Maybe the Daniel of Threads was for a brief moment a little too much like our Daniel to the point of convincing her to sacrifice herself to get rid of Anubis...but other than that, he bears little resemblance to the compassionate, soulful Daniel of old.

                                I say this because it would go a long way as to explaining his massive personality overhaul of the past couple of years.

                                This could be a clever storyline if done well...you know, if he's not Daniel then who is he and where is Daniel...or...if he is Daniel then what did Oma do to him to make him this way and can he be fixed?

                                *if done well*

                                Yeah...I know. What was I thinking?
                                That'd be SOOOO cool! It'd be a bit like rewriting history, considering it will have been three years by the time this is addressed, but it'd be soooo cool (f done right)!

                                Comment

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