S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

The Desperate Search For The Super Baby... or
The Desperate Fight Against The Super Evil Baby... or
The Desperate Search For One Super Baby While Desperately Fighting The Other Super Baby...

Let me guess - only the sprog will be genetically equipped / able to use, do, perceive, understand, whatever any defense against the Ori that they might come up with at the end of season 9. The sprog(s)'ll be old enough to talk, act, and not compromise the labor laws for child actors before the first half of season 10 is over. Vala will become the Mother On A Mission To Find Her Child™ long before that, necessitating a new, entirely Aeryn-Sun-like seriousness, determination, and ferocity in her character (but not necessitating a change in kind for her wardrobe or her overt sexuality). She will not, however, join the military, but, SG1 will be priviledged to assist her in her Sprog re-acquistion efforts, thereby allowing romantic relations to develop between her and Daniel. Mitchell, over-aged adolescent that he's been written and played as, will, of course, be madly smitten by the new Vala, thereby allowing romantic relations to develop between Vala and Mitchell. Teal'c and Carter will be forced to play tutors to the growing super sprog(s) first, then be abandoned and exceeded by him/them as their super powers grow past their not-super abilities (Daniel will be busy being the Currently Descended Formerly Ascended Expert On Half-Ascended Childcare), then become supporting characters as required to the All Important Highly Campy Desperate Whatever For The Super Sprog(s) (bad, yeah, but Landry'll be a third banana, I suspect) as conducted by Vala until she decides Who She Likes Better, Daniel, or Cam. I'm betting on Cam, whereupon Daniel will get papered to the wall beside Sam and Teal'c, and Vala and Cam will conduct the All Important Highly Campy Desperate Whatever For The Super Sprog(s) thereafter.

Please pardon me while I heave.

so....you want fries with that

we need to remember this post and come back to it in a year and see just how right you are. considering how much joe & co seem to LOVE VALA (sound like a party line much????) i don't think you're that far off

[chocdoc]

I thought they were all considered LEADS as this is an ensemble show.
I am sure BB doesn’t work any harder then the rest of them, ALL of whom work quite hard.

I agree. I see them all as leads, and they all work very hard.

Some might argue that BB is the "lead" because he is first in the credits. I don't see it that way because it is an ensemble show.

[golfbooy]

Not just that, but Ben has experience as a lead, something which none of the rest of the supporting cast of SG-1 have. Ben talked about what it's like to be a lead in a Starlog article a year ago, and according to Ben, it comes with a lot of responsibility and time above and beyond what an actor normally has to do. When TPTB talk about how Ben is on set on his days off and how he comes early and leaves late, that's all part of being a lead. I don't know if all leads do this, but Ben does. THere's more to it, but I can't remember it all from the article.

Plus, there's the issue of whether or not the other characters *can* be the lead. Traditionally, the leader is the lead. If that were Carter, they'd have to get another science office. If that were Daniel, they'd have to get another archeaologist.

And to be on topic just a bit ... I'm worried about Vala taking over the show. Hope I'm wrong, but ...

My concerns over Vala are many and varied; her taking over the show is merely one of them.

As far as BB, while I know you're a fan of his, he has yet to really stand out for me so far. Arguments of any sort could be made as to why, and I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around in that regard, but that's simply the way I see Mitchell. Actually, given the way Mitchell has been incorporated (or not incorporated, if you will), I wish MS or AT had been made lead outright. Personally, BB has yet to convince me that he can carry the show as lead, whereas AT and MS have been doing just that since season seven. I had the whole BB argument with my brother last December when his addition was announced, with him coming down pretty squarely in Ben's camp. He thought that TPTB could have done worse. I was skeptical. Halfway into season nine, I'm closer to converting him than he is to convincing me.

And I do feel your pain as far as Mitchell being pushed out of the way goes. Right now, I'm concerned that that he'll have Collateral Damage, just like he had Babylon, but that'll be it till the next time TPTB toss off a Mitchell script. Given all the servicing the story needs (as Joe likes to put it), the producers don't seem to think there's much time for character development for anyone, and that's what concerns me most for the future.

[Skydiver]

they can argue ben is the lead because his name is first....but someone's had to be...if no one was first, no one would be second.

and others have argued that the 'and' denotes more importance than a first name.

potato-potahto

one place where ben's name isn't is 'ben browder in stargate', which does put him in more of and equal standing with the others.

personally i think that Lead is more the attitude of the actor than his/her place in the credits.

to me, a lead actor helps to nurture the others. s/he is usually an actor of more experience who kinda forges the way for the others. they act as a mentor to help the others grow and develop and has the confidence to not be jealous if one of the supporting actors happens to grow up beyond the lead. instead of being threatened by a growing popularity, the lead is happy, because it means that s/he's done their job

so, to me, while ben may have the experience leading a show, he is not and will never be of rda's caliber simply because he's a child compared to rda. And if it wasn't for farscape, he'd be yet another relatively nameless male actor

that's not to say that he can't develop into a lead actor...but he's gotta get some years under his belt first.

[Simhavaktra]

so....you want fries with that

we need to remember this post and come back to it in a year and see just how right you are. considering how much joe & co seem to LOVE VALA (sound like a party line much????) i don't think you're that far off

Nah. Thank you, surely, ma'am, but it's all too much to swallow already without the fries, too. Besides which, I'm allergic to potatoes. (No, really. )

I don't want to be right - but I'm havin' that Amazing Karnak Reading The Contents Of The Envelope feelin' every time another drop of PTB drool (PTD?) lands on Vala...

[ShardsofGlass]

they can argue ben is the lead because his name is first....but someone's had to be...if no one was first, no one would be second.

and others have argued that the 'and' denotes more importance than a first name.

potato-potahto

one place where ben's name isn't is 'ben browder in stargate', which does put him in more of and equal standing with the others.

personally i think that Lead is more the attitude of the actor than his/her place in the credits.

to me, a lead actor helps to nurture the others. s/he is usually an actor of more experience who kinda forges the way for the others. they act as a mentor to help the others grow and develop and has the confidence to not be jealous if one of the supporting actors happens to grow up beyond the lead. instead of being threatened by a growing popularity, the lead is happy, because it means that s/he's done their job

so, to me, while ben may have the experience leading a show, he is not and will never be of rda's caliber simply because he's a child compared to rda. And if it wasn't for farscape, he'd be yet another relatively nameless male actor

that's not to say that he can't develop into a lead actor...but he's gotta get some years under his belt first.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about BB. But he already was a lead actor on FS. As far as I know, none of the other cast members have been a lead before. Also, he probably had more acting experience than any of the main cast except of course for Beau Bridges. I've seen many interviews from TPTB from FS, and in all of them, Ben was praised for being a leader among the cast. Brian Henson called him the "dad" of the cast. Ben, himself, said he tried to make sure the writer's vision of the story was being told during filming, especially when things got chaotic and changes had to be made during filming for whatever reason. And I have no idea how hard the other cast members work. I assume everyone works incredibly hard. I just know that I've heard SG PTB talk about how *Ben* comes in during his days off and stuff like that.

I'm not saying the other SG-1 castmembers couldn't be the lead, either. They're all talented and have shown they can carry the stories. I'm just saying that Ben already has the experience of being a lead from FS, and that there's more to it than just having your name first in the credits. It should also mean more work, more lines, more A-stories, etc. Maybe not as much as Rick had -- and obviously that hasn't been the case so far -- but I think that's how it should be for the lead.

I just hope the stories let Ben show us what he can do, but I fear they won't. We'll see, I guess.

[the dancer of spaz]

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about BB. But he already was a lead actor on FS. As far as I know, none of the other cast members have been a lead before. Also, he probably had more acting experience than any of the main cast except of course for Beau Bridges. I've seen many interviews from TPTB from FS, and in all of them, Ben was praised for being a leader among the cast. Brian Henson called him the "dad" of the cast. Ben, himself, said he tried to make sure the writer's vision of the story was being told during filming, especially when things got chaotic and changes had to be made during filming for whatever reason. And I have no idea how hard the other cast members work. I assume everyone works incredibly hard. I just know that I've heard SG PTB talk about how *Ben* comes in during his days off and stuff like that.

That's true. But I honestly don't think his experience can compare to RDA's. That's not to negate his experience or passion, either. Being the lead of a cult classic is difficult, of course. But RDA's experience in "the biz" is comparable by few in the Stargate universe - the three exceptions being Don S. Davis, Beau Bridges and Lou Gossett, Jr.

And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time equating his four years on Farscape to AT, MS and CJ's nine years on Stargate SG-1. This isn't a contest or anything, either. It's just, ya know, fact.

I'm not saying the other SG-1 castmembers couldn't be the lead, either. They're all talented and have shown they can carry the stories. I'm just saying that Ben already has the experience of being a lead from FS, and that there's more to it than just having your name first in the credits. It should also mean more work, more lines, more A-stories, etc. Maybe not as much as Rick had -- and obviously that hasn't been the case so far -- but I think that's how it should be for the lead.

I just hope the stories let Ben show us what he can do, but I fear they won't. We'll see, I guess.

Again, I appreciate Ben Browder's experience and his passion for his job, but I don't see how he has more basic experience than three actors who've been working on the show, carrying stories and developing their characters for nine years. His experience as a lead doesn't make him more experienced than the other actors, in my opinion.

If anything, it barely puts him on par with the other actors, considering he's still "the new guy." It's an uneven playing field in their individual favors, no matter how you look at it.

[Nem2k]

Again, I appreciate Ben Browder's experience and his passion for his job, but I don't see how he has more basic experience than three actors who've been working on the show, carrying stories and developing their characters for nine years. His experience as a lead doesn't make him more experienced than the other actors, in my opinion.

If anything, it barely puts him on par with the other actors, considering he's still "the new guy." It's an uneven playing field in their individual favors, no matter how you look at it.

yeah i agree with that
Ben is a great actor who has experience with a leading role on another show. But AT, MS and CJ have 9 years experience with the way SG works on and offscreen

I think it is a bit rude for BB to step in to take the 'leading role'
whether you think the show has an ensemble lead or not, i think the majority of first time watchers would think Ben was the star of the show purely because he leads SG1 and his name is first on the credits

of course the majority of us old school fans would think that the 4 of them play the leading roles, but then TPTB arent directing this show towards us anymore

[Crichton]

I think it is a bit rude for BB to step in to take the 'leading role' whether you think the show has an ensemble lead or not

I think they should've gone with that. Make Mitchell rude at first. Maybe then he'd atleast seem authoritative, then they could all mutually warm up to each other as they save each other's lives a few times and he realizes how good they are.

[ShardsofGlass]

yeah i agree with that
Ben is a great actor who has experience with a leading role on another show. But AT, MS and CJ have 9 years experience with the way SG works on and offscreen.

Absolutely. I'm not saying they don't have a lot of experience. I'm just saying that they don't have experience as a lead, which Ben does. That's all.

I think it is a bit rude for BB to step in to take the 'leading role'
whether you think the show has an ensemble lead or not, i think the majority of first time watchers would think Ben was the star of the show purely because he leads SG1 and his name is first on the credits

TPTB contacted Ben to be on SG-1, and offered him the position he has. It's not rude to accept a job someone offers you. It's what happens when you have a job offer -- you either accept it or not. As far as the credits go, it would be extremely foolish for him to turn down being first in the credits, imo. Listen, they wanted someone to take RDA's place on the show. The simplest thing, and least risky thing, imo, was to get someone who already had experience as a lead, someone the right age to be a lt. col., and someone with an established fanbase. Ben fit the bill.

Again, I appreciate Ben Browder's experience and his passion for his job, but I don't see how he has more basic experience than three actors who've been working on the show, carrying stories and developing their characters for nine years. His experience as a lead doesn't make him more experienced than the other actors, in my opinion.

If anything, it barely puts him on par with the other actors, considering he's still "the new guy." It's an uneven playing field in their individual favors, no matter how you look at it.

Well, I don't know how to add up everyone's total experience. I was just thinking that Ben was older than them and had been working as an actor (at least a little bit) since he was about 6 years old. Obviously, he doesn't have as much experience on SG -- how could he?! But, like I said before, he's the only one with experience as a lead.

Plus, and maybe this is the most important point, all of their *characters* are already established in the roles they're in. Shifting either MS or AT to lead would be a bigger change than bringing in Ben, imo, because then who do you get for the fourth? Another archeaologist if Daniel is the new leader? Another science officer if Sam if the leader?

[Skydiver]

what ben did wasnt rude. he was just doing his job. plain and simple. he was offered a leading role and took it.

many of the things that have contributed to a lack of leadership appearances have come from the writers. they're the ones who, for whatever reasons, settled on the silly co-leader bit (my personal opinion, bridge knew that it was rude to amanda to basically demote her, but were under p ressure from SMS to make ben the leader in every way possible, so they came up with 'co-leaders' to try and find a compromise.)

this co-leader means that, while ben may be first in the credits, he's certainly showed a lack of real leadership ability in many peoples' interpretations. he's acted more like a young man on a lark, not a leader of a crack team.

this is the fault of the writers who have taken a more comedic slant with the first half of s9 (evidence vala and her antics), and complicated by the focus on vala, to the expense of every other character but daniel. the writers' fascination with vala has hurt cameron.

what we've gotten about cam is an oversell in avalon...then nothing until babylon (which was just fifth race with a more action and less cerebral slant)

cameron has definitely suffered from the writers' love affaire with vala...but it's not ben's fault. ben is a pawn. if you want to blame anyone, blame the writers or blame the folks at sony/mgm/scifi who are calling the shots

[the dancer of spaz]

what ben did wasnt rude. he was just doing his job. plain and simple. he was offered a leading role and took it.

many of the things that have contributed to a lack of leadership appearances have come from the writers. they're the ones who, for whatever reasons, settled on the silly co-leader bit (my personal opinion, bridge knew that it was rude to amanda to basically demote her, but were under p ressure from SMS to make ben the leader in every way possible, so they came up with 'co-leaders' to try and find a compromise.)

this co-leader means that, while ben may be first in the credits, he's certainly showed a lack of real leadership ability in many peoples' interpretations. he's acted more like a young man on a lark, not a leader of a crack team.

this is the fault of the writers who have taken a more comedic slant with the first half of s9 (evidence vala and her antics), and complicated by the focus on vala, to the expense of every other character but daniel. the writers' fascination with vala has hurt cameron.

what we've gotten about cam is an oversell in avalon...then nothing until babylon (which was just fifth race with a more action and less cerebral slant)

cameron has definitely suffered from the writers' love affaire with vala...but it's not ben's fault. ben is a pawn. if you want to blame anyone, blame the writers or blame the folks at sony/mgm/scifi who are calling the shots

Totally, completely agree. They're all pawns now, right down to Mallozzi. Sony's come on board (along with NBC/Universal, as of last year), and they've taken over - big time.

I don't blame Ben Browder for taking this role. That's ludicrous. But I do blame writing and I'll blame the producers. It would seem that everyone's on a leash here, and the ones at the other end are Scifi execs.

I can't help but feel that they sold their collective souls when they started Atlantis two years ago. Now they can't afford to rebel or bite the hand that feeds a la Farscape - or they risk screwing over another series. How depressing.

[LaCroix]

Totally, completely agree. They're all pawns now, right down to Mallozzi. Sony's come on board (along with NBC/Universal, as of last year), and they've taken over - big time.

I don't blame Ben Browder for taking this role. That's ludicrous. But I do blame writing and I'll blame the producers. It would seem that everyone's on a leash here, and the ones at the other end are Scifi execs.

I can't help but feel that they sold their collective souls when they started Atlantis two years ago. Now they can't afford to rebel or bite the hand that feeds a la Farscape - or they risk screwing over another series. How depressing.

Oh, I agree. One only has to look at a new mini-series coming-up on Sci-Fi called The Triangle. It's being touted as coming from the creators of X-men and ID4, but the person who wrote the teleplay is no other than Rockne O'Bannon.

Is this also another way of Skiffy's way of saying sorry to the fan's of Farscape? It wouldn't suprise me when SG-1 ends ( sometime next year)
that BB and CB will have a place on this show, since this will more than likely replace SG-1. And we all know that, even tho it's slated to be a 6-part mini, 12/05/05, Skiffy will find a way to put it on after SG-1 is not re-newed for s11.

[Skydiver]

scifi would be stupid if they weren't looking for a replacement show. sg1 doesn't have that much longer left to it. even if its' pulling ratings it will be cited as being too expensive to continue.

my original money was on firefly but this triangle could be a viable choice too

[the dancer of spaz]

scifi would be stupid if they weren't looking for a replacement show. sg1 doesn't have that much longer left to it. even if its' pulling ratings it will be cited as being too expensive to continue.

my original money was on firefly but this triangle could be a viable choice too

Yeah... The Triangle and Eureka. Whoo.

Color me skeptical. I'm sorry, but the shows that are successful on the network NOW came in with ready-made fanbases. I don't see them building one up from scratch without screwing it up like they did before with Farscape.

No, no, no, Bonnie Hammer. You just make sure you get The 4400, The Dead Zone and Surface in syndication. You guys do best when you don't have your hand in the creative process.