With regards to Ascension

[Lord §okar]

I find it to be stupid. It's allegedly a "stage" in evolution where the subject learns how the become energy.

Firstly evolution doesn't have stages, it's an ongoing process characterized by the gradual propagation of novel traits. If anything it's spontaneous mutation, you don't "learn" how to evolve it just happens, and the fact that it's a near instataneous process, at one critical moment after sufficient nauseating platitudes about enlightenment and all that drivel have been inflicted upon you suddenly achieve this state, destroys any analogy. It's not evolution, it's revolution.

Secondly, things can't exist as energy! Have you ever seen a coherent ball of light, or a ball of heat? No, that's just stupid. Ascended beings emit energy, they're not made of it. If a persons body suddenly became energy it'd vapourize Cheyenne mountain. I wonder what triggers this magical transformation? Oh, that's right: enlightenment.

Thirdly, how do these ascendants observe without interfering? Apparently they've never heard of natural selection, thermodynamics or quantum mechanics (or that principle that is the analog of uncertainty on the macroscopic scale, can't remember the name). How do they see things with their invisible retinas or hear things with their insubstantial ear drums?

Lastly, it doesn't matter how sodding "enlightened" you are, you can't make energy. You can't make lightning happen or any of that other crap.

In conclusion .

[helio9]

If they stuck to what made perfect sense, it would be a fairly boring show.

[Lord §okar]

Battlestar isn't a boring show.

[KRiZ]

i take it you're not a religious or spiritual person then Lord Sokar?

also every lifeform is an energy based being, energy cannot be destroyed etc...

ascension would merely be the transition of state, from solid to non corporeal form, a sort of extreme melting if you were.

Also the stargate universe has us believe our understanding of physics is wrong, or at least flawed, which even in reality is entirely possible, for example 1000 years ago we had no concept of Space travel or even a horseless carriage, so what would another 1000 years of research and development get us? The understanding that quantum mechanics may be flawed, as suggested by the Tollan in the SG 'verse.

You are trying to apply our current narrow minded understanding of the universe, to a show dealing with aliens, ray guns, space ships the size of mountains, oh and lets not forget the Gate itself, a device able to manipulate space time.

If you don't like the idea go back to battlestar, which altho i love it too, is just as far fetched, for all it's supposed realism

[Jarnin]

It's metaphysics in science fiction shows, nothing new really. It brings in the non-scientist viewer, who might not believe in aliens, but does believe in life after death.

Ratings > Science

[Three PhDs]

also every lifeform is an energy based being, energy cannot be destroyed etc...

I don't know about you, but I'm more matter based than energy based.

ascension would merely be the transition of state, from solid to non corporeal form, a sort of extreme melting if you were.

And what keeps the energy together? In a coherent form?

[KRiZ]

I don't know about you, but I'm more matter based than energy based.

matter is a form of energy is not? stored energy if you will, for example you burn wood, you release energy in the forms of heat and light

And what keeps the energy together? In a coherent form?

For this i'm gonna retreat back to the whole our understanding of the universe according to SG is limited and flawed. Failing that explanation a combination of jello and magnets

Or from the spiritual enlightenment side of things, you cannot actually see an ascended being unless they want you to, Daniel appearing and disappearing in abyss for example. The white glow is a projection of mind or spirit if you will, formed by the will of the being

[Lord §okar]

i take it you're not a religious or spiritual person then Lord Sokar?
100% athiest etc., but I don't see the relevance.

matter is a form of energy is not? stored energy if you will, for example you burn wood, you release energy in the forms of heat and light
No, it's not. You may just as well say that marble is a form of wood. Sure if you try hard enough you may be able to get wood from marble, but they're not the same, are they?

also every lifeform is an energy based being, energy cannot be destroyed etc...
No, we are made of matter.

ascension would merely be the transition of state, from solid to non corporeal form, a sort of extreme melting if you were.
Ok... a system at equilibrium doesn't change states, what prompts this conversion?

Also the stargate universe has us believe our understanding of physics is wrong, or at least flawed, which even in reality is entirely possible, for example 1000 years ago we had no concept of Space travel or even a horseless carriage, so what would another 1000 years of research and development get us? The understanding that quantum mechanics may be flawed, as suggested by the Tollan in the SG 'verse.
No it's not, there is a difference between projected technical capabilities and flat out physical impossibility. Quantum physics isn't wrong because it works.

Or from the spiritual enlightenment side of things, you cannot actually see an ascended being unless they want you to, Daniel appearing and disappearing in abyss for example. The white glow is a projection of mind or spirit if you will, formed by the will of the being
In what way do you find it unrealistic?

You are trying to apply our current narrow minded understanding of the universe, to a show dealing with aliens, ray guns, space ships the size of mountains, oh and lets not forget the Gate itself, a device able to manipulate space time.
Oh no, not the "narrow perspective" lecture again. Any universe that functions has rules. Those rules are a little like the rules of a computer system, some of them can be bent... others can be broken.

That's not true, physics is the rules and the universe adheres to them. I get people telling me all the time "maybe evolution works different, or maybe energy for the ascendants is different..." Those terms are defined by us, if it's not energy by our definition it's not energy at alland if it's not evolution bour our, you know the rest, because there are no other definitions. An ascendant being is not made of energy because it doesn't behave like energy, and ascention isn't evolution because it doesn't behave like it.

[JanusAncient]

I'm not going to argue, don't feel like, don't approve of it. That said, above mentioned, a thousand years ago people did believe space travel to be possible, well greater minds anyway, Lord Sokar, because you can't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible. Atheist, I thought that they didn't believe in God, but they don't believe in the entire spiritual realm, or energy governing principles? Quantum Mechanics works, it does, I love it, you love it, we appreciate what it has taught us, still how much science has been wrong, how much science has worked, and has been disproven, it has yet, no question, give a century or two, sucks that we will not be here, but time will tell.

[Kilharae]

Dude, it's a plot device. It's plausible in the context it's being told... that context being: We're almost petty in our understanding of the universe.


As far as it being a stage of evolution, well, from all evidence in SG-1 I believe it to be a forced evolution, through genetic manipulation.

Ascention as you put it, first requires a belief in a soul or something equivalent, that's where religion would come in. And while I too am 100% atheist, I'm not so anal that I can't suspend disbelief on things pertaining to that matter. The idea of a soul is talked about in every single sci fi show ever. Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.

[KRiZ]

No it's not, there is a difference between projected technical capabilities and flat out physical impossibility. Quantum physics isn't wrong because it works.

Ah but how do you know that, advancement of science quite often comes from the realisation an assumption we had was wrong.

Liken it to about 5-6 hundred years ago, people believed the earth was flat, people like columbus were laughed out for thinking differently, those beliefs worked for them then.

That you can say quantum mechanics works, without any question is quite frankly stupid, we have managed to test this theory on our planet and the surrounding solar system. if you hadn't noticed we're on the outer edges of one of many galaxies in an estimated infinite universe, when you've been to every planet, moon, celestial body in the universe and tested quantum mechanics, let me know.

[Zeus]

You know I find it funny that people say quantum mechanics works and we got it sorted. I find its more of an observation of whats going on based on current understanding, rather than a reason to why its happening. Oh and yes I do know what im on about. I mean come on they dont even know really what causes gravity apart from insubstantial gravitons and im not saying its wrong just highlighting its neive to think our knowledge of the universe is sound which it quite clearly is not. Its opinions like those that i hear from scientists all the time they shun people with any ideas contuary to popular acceptance ie any research in to FTL most scientist carreas/rep goes down the drain. This little rant is not to put anyones ideas down either estblished of differnt just a post to highlight the problem of not tryting to think out side of the box becasue we have been brought up in a world of science that you cant question and if you do as i said abouve your shunned

[Lord §okar]

I'm not going to argue, don't feel like, don't approve of it. That said, above mentioned, a thousand years ago people did believe space travel to be possible, well greater minds anyway, Lord Sokar, because you can't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible. Atheist, I thought that they didn't believe in God, but they don't believe in the entire spiritual realm, or energy governing principles? Quantum Mechanics works, it does, I love it, you love it, we appreciate what it has taught us, still how much science has been wrong, how much science has worked, and has been disproven, it has yet, no question, give a century or two, sucks that we will not be here, but time will tell.
Of course I believe in thermodynamics (energy governing principles) it's like the cornerstone of modern physics. God and the entire spiritual realm? Ah no.

Liken it to about 5-6 hundred years ago, people believed the earth was flat, people like columbus were laughed out for thinking differently, those beliefs worked for them then.
Can't you people learn the difference between expected technical capabilities and flat out physical impossibility?

Ascention as you put it, first requires a belief in a soul or something equivalent, that's where religion would come in. And while I too am 100% atheist, I'm not so anal that I can't suspend disbelief on things pertaining to that matter. The idea of a soul is talked about in every single sci fi show ever. Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.
I'm not saying I can't appreciate it and I can't suspend disbelief in the context of the show. When I finish watching my disbelief comes back and I go on about it in the Science and Technology forum. What's it here for?

As far as it being a stage of evolution, well, from all evidence in SG-1 I believe it to be a forced evolution, through genetic manipulation.
Evolution can neither be forced, nor can it be ordained through genetic manipulation.

We're almost petty in our understanding of the universe.
I guess, it is writen by lay people, after all.

That you can say quantum mechanics works, without any question is quite frankly stupid, we have managed to test this theory on our planet and the surrounding solar system. if you hadn't noticed we're on the outer edges of one of many galaxies in an estimated infinite universe, when you've been to every planet, moon, celestial body in the universe and tested quantum mechanics, let me know.
Yeah, cos it, liek, changes when you go somewhere else. I don't know about you but I can see stars whenever I look into the sky, object evidence of quantum mechanics in action, a long freaking long way away.

I find its more of an observation of whats going on based on current understanding, rather than a reason to why its happening.
Is there a point in here?

I mean come on they dont even know really what causes gravity apart from insubstantial gravitons and im not saying its wrong just highlighting its neive to think our knowledge of the universe is sound which it quite clearly is not.
Mass causes gravity. It has an effect on space-time. Whether or not I know why it does that doesn't change the fact that it's governed by the law of gravitation.

[KRiZ]

Lord Sokar, the basic point is that even if you are right about real life, say quantum mechanics is the be all and end all, it is not so in the SG universe as others have previously stated it is suspension of disbelief.

I myself hope to god (altho i'm an atheist also) that we are flawed in todays understanding of the universe, otherwise the future is going to be incredibly dull.

Also on the forcing of evolution, it is theroretically possible with gene manipulation, admittedly you would need the technology to alter DNA such as nirrtis chamber. Another possibility is selective evolution, we have the power to screen babies for birth defects, if we chose not to let those live (incredibly harsh and im not for it) we would build a stronger race which would be less restricted by imperfections.

[theStormWeaver]

Yeah, its just a tv show. There are lots of things on it that defy all that we know of the universe. Also remember that the spiritual side of it is only involved when Oma is helping you!! Anyone forget about that? Maybe you just didn't see the episode with Khalek? In order to obtain Ascension without help, you must be highly evolved in the first place. In fact, so evolved that you would need to be able to access 80% or more of your brain's functionality (we use something like 10-15%, some more or less ). Its not sudden (kinda, sorta, maybe), and the spiritual side doesn't exist. The idea that it requires some spiritual requirements was set up by Oma so that she didn't make more Ori, or Anubis, but she did anyway!!