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    Ascension

    I did a search in this forum for “ascension” and did not fine too much. So I thought I would start up a new post with the question – What are the limits to ascending? If you look at the forums for Atlantis and SG1 there is a lot of talk about “Paths to ascension”, “Need a gene to Ascend”, “Planes of Existence”, and so on and so on. What I would like to get is a list of facts about ascension. So here is what I know and understand. I’m hoping people will add comments, clarifications, things completely new to the list below to get a nice comprehensive list of what is Ascension.

    1. All living beings can eventually evolve to the point of Ascension
    2. Ascension is not based on genes but instead based on the level of understanding the universe
    3. Ascension is not a right or privilege. It is not bias or prejudice, it is just the next step of evolution
    4. Ascension is the first step in the first energy based plane of existence, which is one of many

    This is how I understand ascension for the most part. That said in the Stargate universe there have been things done, said, experienced that would contradict these. For example the ancients stopping Anubis from ascending all the way. Or Orlin taking human form but needs the help of the others to re-ascend. The asgard being as advance as there are, but now being able to ascend. What other facts can we add? If a post like this is someplace else or this belongs someplace else I am sorry. Please advise if that is the case

    #2
    Originally posted by Shkelton
    2. Ascension is not based on genes but instead based on the level of understanding the universe
    No, cause neither Skaara nor Daniel knew much about the universe.

    Now with added lesbians.

    Comment


      #3
      i think that this thread is a good one: in answer to the 4 question ill try to answer them as breifly as i can ( i will re post later on )
      1. yes they can all evolve but not lal in to ascended beings. i think, that the being needs a soul. an essence in addition to conscience and understanding of the process. the asgard cannot ascende because they are clones. they have knowledge understanding an conscience but no soul, just personallity.
      2. no the process is not to do with genes or knowledge, knowledge is gained afterwoods, you comprehending the process before hand helps but not neccisary. the gene thing may be refering to ancients being the first/one of the first to ascend takign their genes with them i assume. or are you refering to chalek.
      3. correct in its entireity. the process is not biased but those who have ascended and gained power through it are. its the ascended's bias toward good not the process of ascencion
      4. possible, it is the next step and you do become energy based but the many part is a ? except with anubis where a plane was i assume created for him?
      no.4 is all speculation but the rest is pretty solid.

      immhotep
      sigpic
      You are the fifth race, your role is clear, if there is any hope in preserving the future it lies with you and your people ~ 8years for those words
      Stargate : Genesis |
      Original Starship DesignThread
      Sanctuary for all | http://virtualfleet.vze.com/
      11000! green me




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        #4
        Originally posted by Three PhDs
        No, cause neither Skaara nor Daniel knew much about the universe.
        Daniel and Skaara didn't have such a high level of understanding; they were both helped by Oma.

        The episode 'Prototype'
        Spoiler:
        confirmed that there is a biological aspect to ascension
        .


        a time to mourn

        Comment


          #5
          yes there has always been a biological aspect, the is two sides to ascension the spiritual and the biological.
          the spiritual side is the most common because its basicly the easy way. you have pure heart and prove it to somebody up there and they get you in ala daniel/skara. there are also accepted levels of almost automatic accension, like in the case of shifu, where the only way he could physically cope and handle that knowledge was to ascend..which bring up issue with the non interfereence laws; if they will ascend shifu because he is a potential cause of great evil why cant they destroy the priors for being pure evil.

          The biological or 'the hard way' is the way the ancinets first done it. we think. IMO they cheated and done a chalak and sped the process up know what would happen by studying other universes/planes/energy beings ( quantum mirror if we conclude the ancients built that device which is really likely, sight unseen, hide and seek )
          Yeah the evolutionary way is that your body and mind progress so far up the evolutionary path that you mind is released in to energy and seperated from your phsyical bodie. basicly.
          sigpic
          You are the fifth race, your role is clear, if there is any hope in preserving the future it lies with you and your people ~ 8years for those words
          Stargate : Genesis |
          Original Starship DesignThread
          Sanctuary for all | http://virtualfleet.vze.com/
          11000! green me




          Comment


            #6
            Biological, and the metaphysical have to some extent coexist. Biology comes most into play, when without dying, a being would choose conscious willful ascension, abandoning physical form, turning matter of the body, into unified cosmic energy, integrating a single conscious being into the universal whole.

            Metaphysical, enlightenment, unevoled being acquiring limited knowledge of the inner-working of the universe, completing at least the mental stage of evolution, allowing transmutation to take place.

            Comment


              #7
              I always thought you needed to be both biologically capable and both spiritually willing.

              In my knowledge, everybody non-ancient who has ascended has had an ascended ancient help them, usually Oma.

              The ancients were evolved enough to be capable of turning their bodies from matter to energy, which is a process called annihilation. Annihilation is caused by the interaction of matter and anti-matter, cancelling each other out and making energy. I reckon the ancients willing to do it used technology to pump themselves full of anti-matter (which would cause unimaginable pain btw.) Those who were evolved enough survived the process and could control their new energy form. Now I think the ascended ancients let the humans bypass this process either by going through the process themselves again for the sake of the human, or by changing the humans physiology for the process so it was identical to the highly evolved ancient so they could ascend.

              I believe for people to ascend, they have to truly renounce their existence in this plane. At the point where they have nothing to lose, they cheat death by ascending. The ancients were all going to be destroyed by the plague and daniel was dying of radiation sickness. I recall seeing ascended daniel meeting Jack when he was captured by Baal (season 6 I think) and suggesting he ascend as Jack had nothing left to lose in this situation.

              The asgard probably wanted to ascend but couldn't because they were clones
              The Nox didn't want to as they were happy with existing here
              I think the furlings were native to an alternate reality, and were the inventors of the alternate reality device used in the early seasons.

              Comment


                #8
                I always thought that it was a little of both too. Although, in some cases I would imagine that the person ascended based on the "spiritual" readiness.
                All posts are IMO, I am not a rocket scientist.


                Bender: "Lets go get drunk!"
                Pay it forward

                Comment


                  #9
                  OK so we got some good feedback. Lets update the original list

                  1. All beings that are self conscious can evolve naturally to ascend. Or can ascend with the help from a being on a higher plane of existence.

                  2. Ascension is not based on genes, technology, or power. It is based on the level that you understand the universe. You conscious mind has evolved to the point of manipulating your physical matter body into energy and keeping it in that state. Unless of course being help by one with that ability already.

                  3. Ascension is not a right or privilege. It is not bias or prejudice, it is just the next step of evolution. It seems that the being at that next plane of existence have control over it’s environment and they can be bias. Question remains is how can then control all the potential beings who are on the verge of ascending from ascending.

                  4. Ascension is the first step in the first energy based plane of existence, which is one of many. This is a bit speculative, but it has been said over and over that there are many levels of existence.

                  There are some questions that still need answering. For example the Asgard. Everyone that has replied has said that they can not ascend because they are clones. But that is only the body. Looking at our list the requirement is the conscious self to be evolved enough to ascend. It has nothing to do with the physical body. There must be a different reason for them not ascending. It really could be that they have not evolved to that point. I do specifically remember Thor saying that they have downloaded the library of knowledge and that they have studied it extensively and only scratched the surface. If that is true then they are way behind the ancients. There is also the Orlin question. Maybe he could re-ascend by himself, but there is that control again from the others.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If only there were a Dummy's Guide to Ascension.
                    All posts are IMO, I am not a rocket scientist.


                    Bender: "Lets go get drunk!"
                    Pay it forward

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by skritsys
                      If only there were a Dummy's Guide to Ascension.
                      and it acutally worked that would be something that would sell out. lol

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The Asgard have likely not ascended because they just simply aren't on an evolutionary path towards it, unlike the Alterans or the Ori. If anything, it seems like their gene pool is degrading/shrinking, having lost their ability to sexually reproduce some time ago. They might be labeled "stunted" in terms of their evolutionary growth.

                        I do believe some higher level of understanding is involved. Skaara or Daniel didn't have this initially, no, but with Oma's guidance they were likely accelerated to that level, because that's apparently what Oma does. People on the evolutionary path to it, though, can will themselves into that state on their own.

                        There seems to be some sort of correlation between total % of brain activity as well. In Anubis' work on Khalek it was stated that at about 80-90% of the brain being active at once (versus the 5-10% for normal humans) an individual can will himself into an ascended state. It's possible that at that level, the mind is able to perceive the universe in a new way, somehow.

                        I don't think it's possible for a regular human brain to function at that capacity, though. (A regular person with a brain with 100% of its synapses firing is a regular person having a seizure.) Some genetic work is likely required to... perhaps develop the mind to a point where it can actually handle that.

                        Or not. It's all speculation, after all.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The Asgard, they should be able to ascend, eventhough they are clones, there must be energy flowing through their bodies, probably an amount great enough to allow for conscious-willful ascension, but with the help of an already ascended being, an Asgard should be able to ascend.

                          They are still flesh, and blood, molecules & atoms, ascension should be very much possible for an Asgard, given their evolutionary standing, it is probable that if they actually allowed themselves to face death, they could find their own path to ascension.

                          I think that it is possible, for a current human brain, to operate at 80-90% capacity. Not istantaneously of course, but given time to adapt growing senses, and sensations, it is well within the realm of possibility, with requiring any scientific assisstance, to alter the physical form, this change should occur as a result of the mental growth, already taking place.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            We know that the Asgard's evolutionary growth has been stunted by their chosen method of reproduction: an imperfect method cloning. With each generation, the clones degenerate further. (S5: "Revelations") This is probably what is preventing them from ascending--their evolutionary path is currently heading towards oblivion rather than to a higher level.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by JanusAncient
                              I think that it is possible, for a current human brain, to operate at 80-90% capacity. Not istantaneously of course, but given time to adapt growing senses, and sensations, it is well within the realm of possibility, with requiring any scientific assisstance, to alter the physical form, this change should occur as a result of the mental growth, already taking place.
                              Are you saying with or without scientific assistance? If it's without....

                              if that's true shouldn't there be at least one human on the planet operating at this high efficiency? Just 1 freak occurence in 6 billion. But there probably isn't so it stands to reason some technological/medical interference is necessary for a human brain to successfully operate at this level since it is a physiological difference rather than a state of mind.

                              If you think of how many very well educated geniuses have been examined and found to be operating at little more efficiency than the rest of us, one has to assume that there's more to this than just gaining a vast amount of knowledge. How would you get past the fact that the average human can't access most of the information they process once its no longer relevant? It can't help you ascend if you can't remember it.

                              I'm sure the average human brain can operate on slightly higher levels; near full efficiency seems unlikely to me however, if only because we use our whole brain, but not all at once. We use most of it to run our bodies and it uses up a lot of energy. If we aren't changed in some way so that it allows our brain to be on all at once to run every body system and do funky super things at the same time without shutting down for lack of fuel, we'd be in trouble, something would probably have to give.

                              Maybe thats why Oma waits until a person is on the verge of death because their brain is freed from having to run their body and can more easily process what she's teaching.

                              I think it's possible to be mentally ready but physically incapable of ascending and the opposite is probably also true since it seems there were ancients who knew a lot about the process but took their sweet time moving on. The key is probably to be both at the same time.

                              I suspect one of the reasons the ancients took so long to acheive something they'd studied so long was because they ran out of time. For some people it takes a long time to be mentally prepared but if you can't do it within your lifetime then you lose the opportunity so they spent a lot of time learning how to expand their life span to give them more time to learn how.

                              "You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea." - Jack Handy

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