Ancient database (spoiler for season 2 stargate atlantis)

[Lord Zedd]

Hello everone

I was thinking that in the Siege 1 and 2 Dr. Zelenca said that they could only save maybe 8 procent of the Ancient databse if they use McKay's programming. Now since the Daeadalus is there and making trips between Atlantis and Earth you would think that they have brought enough hard drives to store more information to make a copy of the Ancient database and bring it back to Earth.So 8 % has been send still 92% to go :p :D What are your thoughts?

Anubis

[spg_1983]

they probably would use the gate first, have the daedulus bring the hard drives needed and just send them back through the gate.

[tony]

indeed.

[Qasim]

In one of the SG1 eps they mention that the daedalus brought the database back

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

In one of the SG1 eps they mention that the daedalus brought the database back
Which one was that, because I don't recall them mentioning it?

[general ben]

Which one was that, because I don't recall them mentioning it?
i know they said it in protype when the said that they compared kalic's dna to ancients dna from the database.

[Qasim]

Avalon Part 1:

JACKSON: *staring at comp* Uh…well this is a portion of the database the Atlantis expedition brought back with them a few weeks ago… specifically it's the log of the names of the ancients who left the planet when it was under siege from the wraith and returned to earth.

[Avatar28]

Avalon Part 1:

JACKSON: *staring at comp* Uh…well this is a portion of the database the Atlantis expedition brought back with them a few weeks ago… specifically it's the log of the names of the ancients who left the planet when it was under siege from the wraith and returned to earth.

To be fair, that IS rather ambiguous. It COULD mean that only a portion of the database was brought back and that's what he's looking at (or is even looking at a portion of the portion, but you get the idea) or it could mean that the whole thing was brought back and he's just looking at a portion of it.

[Deckker]

It is only a matter of time and effort to move the database over.

Say the SGA oringal team was 100 people each with 500gig of hardisk space(A notebook barely has 100gig right now), makes it 50,000 gig or 50 Tb of space.

If with all things this makes 8% of the database you will need 600 TB to hold the entire database.

Now thats a lot of data no matter how you look at it, but I am sure the ship could easily hold 100 TB of data, using Tape backup systems. A Room the size of an Aircraft Toliet can hold about 10 TB in tape backup data.

3 to 4 trips will be more than enough to move the entire database over.

The problem here is Alantis is not a single huge database, Black projects and secrets are devleoped without being connected to the main database, or are protected in a manner the SGA team can't solve yet. That is the stuff they are after.

[JanusAncient]

The stuff that they are currently able to retrieve, must be the introduction part of the database, saying who they are, where they came from, what happened to them, etc. Everything else weapons platforms, ship technology, a how to create your own Atlantis, must be increasingly difficult to uncover.

[helio9]

What does it matter? Most of that stuff is far beyond us anyways. Its a database of knowledge, not an instruction manual to build cool guns.

In order to take advantage of that, we would require huge advances in mathematics, physics, and our overall understanding of the universe.

It occasionally comes in handy (like in Prototype) but I'd imagine we can't do anything with the bulk of it. It would be like handing a series of computer science books to a caveman.

[Avatar28]

What does it matter? Most of that stuff is far beyond us anyways. Its a database of knowledge, not an instruction manual to build cool guns.

In order to take advantage of that, we would require huge advances in mathematics, physics, and our overall understanding of the universe.

It occasionally comes in handy (like in Prototype) but I'd imagine we can't do anything with the bulk of it. It would be like handing a series of computer science books to a caveman.

I was thinking more like teaching an early scientist (say, early greeks like Archimedes and the like) basic English and then giving them a computer with all the contents of the internet.

Also, if the ancient database is only 600 terabytes, then all I can say is that that is pretty much crap. For an idea, let's look at the internet today.
Size of the Internet (http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-much-info/internet.html)
Or better still, a Berkely study about how much information existed in 2003 (latest figures I could find)
How much information. (http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-much-info-2003/execsum.htm#summary)

In short, the study estimates that in 2002, there were about 5 exabytes (5,000,000 tera bytes) of new information stored and said that it goes up by about 30%/yr so it may be closer to 10 exabytes now). The internet alone contained around 500,000 terabytes in 2002 and it is likely at least twice that now if not more (much of that information was in the form of email), the web was "only" about 100,000 terabytes in size then.

I've not managed to find anything newer than that, which is unfortunate considering the explosive growth rate of the internet.

Anyways, my point being that even human knowledge is an incredible amount of data. Surely the ancient database then is even more insane? Unless they left a lot of stuff out, which is certainly possible.

[6thMonolith]

Anyways, my point being that even human knowledge is an incredible amount of data. Surely the ancient database then is even more insane? Unless they left a lot of stuff out, which is certainly possible.

What they left out was probably what seperated the Ancient database in Atlantis from their Repositories. The Repositories contain a near infinate amount of information, while the Database is just extremely massive.

[Avatar28]

Are they? I'm not so certain that the database doesn't contain a similar amount of info, but I suppose I could have missed something that was said at some point indicating that.

[spg_1983]

What they left out was probably what seperated the Ancient database in Atlantis from their Repositories. The Repositories contain a near infinate amount of information, while the Database is just extremely massive.why would they do that? and how do we know they did? they were going to a new galaxy to start a new civilization, why wouldnt they take all their accumulated knowledge with them?

[second.prime]

Would we need to copy the entire database? Didn't Zelenka say that it was "incredibly redundant" to Weir and that if the Wraith recovered even a small part of it......well it was inferred (as I understood it anyway) that you could rebuild the whole database from a piece of it. So maybe we could do that with what we already have.

Unless they meant the physical database........then obviously we can't :D

[Avatar28]

I kind of got the impression that it was redundant in the sense that if something happened to part of it it could still be reconstructed. Whether that's like a RAID array or (my guess) more like a hologram wasn't specified. With a hologram, if you cut it into pieces, each piece will still contain the whole image. So maybe it's kind of like that with the data stored in the crystals in a holographic format.

[helio9]

why would they do that? and how do we know they did? they were going to a new galaxy to start a new civilization, why wouldnt they take all their accumulated knowledge with them?
Uh...what? The repositories were meant to be downloaded into someone's head. How can they be more vast than a computer database, which can hold as much information as they have hard drives (or equivalent)?

Also, we can't really compare the ancient database to the internet. Its a database that containse useful information. Not Pornography, not gossip on Oprah's waist size, not Brad Pitt's dating habits. A better comparison would probably be to compare it to Wikipedia. But even that contains what are essentially news articles on current events, something which is likely not included in the Ancient Database.

[Jarnin]

Uh...what? The repositories were meant to be downloaded into someone's head. How can they be more vast than a computer database, which can hold as much information as they have hard drives (or equivalent)?
Ever heard of compression? That information uncompresses inside a persons head, which is why it takes time for the effects to be seen.


Also, we can't really compare the ancient database to the internet. Its a database that containse useful information. Not Pornography, not gossip on Oprah's waist size, not Brad Pitt's dating habits.
Many millions of people find porn useful. Your opinion of how useful those things are isn't relevant.

I think the analogy of the ancient database being similar to the internet is sound, the difference being that the internet isn't centralized, but the ancient database is.

[Stricken]

Why do people have to get technical :S
They will soon have the datatbase on Earth, trips from the Deadalus and sending it through the Gate

[spg_1983]

Uh...what? The repositories were meant to be downloaded into someone's head. How can they be more vast than a computer database, which can hold as much information as they have hard drives (or equivalent)?

Also, we can't really compare the ancient database to the internet. Its a database that containse useful information. Not Pornography, not gossip on Oprah's waist size, not Brad Pitt's dating habits. A better comparison would probably be to compare it to Wikipedia. But even that contains what are essentially news articles on current events, something which is likely not included in the Ancient Database.how do we know there is no porn on there? They were only human and humans like porn now, whats to say they didnt then as well?

[theStormWeaver]

The Ancients were not human. They were over 100,000 years farther on the evolutionary path then humans. They were Alterrans. They looked like humans, and at one point they were. Its safe to say that there very well could have been pornography on the Personal Computers of the Ancients, but not the Database. I think the Database is best compared to takeing the Library of Alexandria, and turning it into a series of text documents, with pictures thrown in. The Ancients would have stored things important to their research. It would be filled with history, science, math, philosophy, and such things. All computers have porn, but not the Ancient Database.

[spg_1983]

The Ancients were not human. They were over 100,000 years farther on the evolutionary path then humans. They were Alterrans. They looked like humans, and at one point they were. Its safe to say that there very well could have been pornography on the Personal Computers of the Ancients, but not the Database. I think the Database is best compared to takeing the Library of Alexandria, and turning it into a series of text documents, with pictures thrown in. The Ancients would have stored things important to their research. It would be filled with history, science, math, philosophy, and such things. All computers have porn, but not the Ancient Database.the only difference between humans and us is a difference in certain brain chemistry. the only other differences is the ATA gene which many humans are already developing. they may have been further along the evolutionary track, but we are the same species.

[theStormWeaver]

More likely the same family or genus, not the same species. Besides even if we are the same species it means nothing. For example, there over three hundred different breeds of dog and they are all the same species. The genetic difference between any two breeds is 30%, which means they only share a 70% common genetic code. That means that Humans are closer to Chimpanzees geneticaly then a Labrador is from a Great Dane.

The Ancients are very different from us.

[Avatar28]

More likely the same family or genus, not the same species. Besides even if we are the same species it means nothing. For example, there over three hundred different breeds of dog and they are all the same species. The genetic difference between any two breeds is 30%, which means they only share a 70% common genetic code. That means that Humans are closer to Chimpanzees geneticaly then a Labrador is from a Great Dane.

The Ancients are very different from us.

Sorry, but the DNA difference among the different breeds of dogs is more like 1%, not 30%. If it were 30% they would be DECIDEDLY different species and would be unable to interbreed. In fact, genetically dogs are still the same species as the wolf, which is why they are able to breed and produce fertile offspring. In fact, 30% is about the genetic difference between humans and mice!

[martac]

Has anyone ever tried to work on a massive database that was created by someone else? Its a pain. Furthermore, without the application layer the Ancients created, it will be a bear to understand how all the tables and sections of data work together. If they did have the application they would have to completely recode the application to run on our platforms.

Yes, I am a geeky database and application developer... and yes it sucks.

[Avatar28]

For those who didn't read the link I posted about the amount of information on the internet, there are two perceived types. The front web, which is the web pages we all see, and the deep web which consists of all the databases and other information that we normally don't see directly. The deep web is far FAR larger than what we see. And come to that, the internet (or at least the web) basically IS a database of sorts.

[Dutch_Razor]

app layer? You mean ctrl + F :p

Well http://www.fujitsu-siemens.nl/le/products/storage/disk_systems/highend/symmetrix_dmx800.html

gives you 17,5 TB, and im sure I've seen ones of over 120 TB.

(not to advertise just an example)

So 600 TB wouldn't be that much.

[Three PhDs]

The Ancients were not human. They were over 100,000 years farther on the evolutionary path then humans. They were Alterrans. They looked like humans, and at one point they were. Its safe to say that there very well could have been pornography on the Personal Computers of the Ancients, but not the Database. I think the Database is best compared to takeing the Library of Alexandria, and turning it into a series of text documents, with pictures thrown in. The Ancients would have stored things important to their research. It would be filled with history, science, math, philosophy, and such things. All computers have porn, but not the Ancient Database.Well, I'd think they'd have personal files of the Ancients there, diaries that sorta thing, and porn too.

[Avatar28]

That's something I'd really love to see, too. Ancient pr0n. I wonder if it was high def? More likely it was holographic.

I wonder if the ancients ever figured out how to record nerve signals and play them back. That's something that we're working on today and will likely be able to do within the next few decades. If that could be done, anyone wanna guess what the first industry to take it up would be?

[helio9]

Ever heard of compression? That information uncompresses inside a persons head, which is why it takes time for the effects to be seen.

I think the analogy of the ancient database being similar to the internet is sound, the difference being that the internet isn't centralized, but the ancient database is.

What I was saying is that the number of cells in the human brain (or ancient for that matter) is finite. No matter how advanced a person is, their brain can only store so much information. But in a computer database, you can store as much as you want, by simply adding more storage space. This inherently gives the computer the potential to store more data.


Many millions of people find porn useful. Your opinion of how useful those things are isn't relevant.

Wow. So now we're arguing that the Ancient database contained porn. I'm sure the writers would be proud:rolleyes:.
All we know for sure about the Ancient database is that it contains [i]knowledge[i/]. From the Seige part II (roughly) we know that it contains information on hyperspace travel, and ascension. There has never been any indication (and I'll bet my left arm that there never will be) that the database contains porn, or any other "recreational activies" such as that.

The internet is full of crap.
Exhibit A:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062302086.html
So oprah couldnt get into a store while it was closed, and called that racism. Yeah I'm sure the Ancients would have included that into their database.

Exhibit B:
http://www.theonion.com/content/
The onion. An online newspaper with openly fictitious news. I'm sure the Ancients would have valued that.

Exhibit C:
http://www.pikapps.net/webring.html
That's the site of a Frat from North Dakota. Also the type of thing the Ancients were likely to deem valuable.

And I havnt even touched on Porn.

I could go on.

There has been no indication whatsoever that the Ancient Database had anything remotely like the things I just posted.

Therefore I think that comparing it to the internet is not appropriate, instead it is more like Wikipedia, although maybe with fewer topics, but more indepth information.