How old were the ancients

[Kill_Baal vo.1]

I dont know if this has been discussed before but if it has sorry.

How old do you think the ancients were before they assended or were wiped out? In New Order, Thor said the following

"You can not even begin to comprehend the extent of what was unfolding in O'Neill's mind. Our scientists long ago extracted parts of the ancient library of knowledge and learned much from it, but we have been studying it for as long as I can remember and we have barely scrathed the surfice"


and it is known that the asgard are a fairly old race. So with that said, we also know that the ancients were highly advanced but I am sure they were not just "automatically" advanced when they were born/created - it must of taken them a great deal of time to build up there knowledge to the level that it was at.

Considering that the Asgard are an old race (atleast old enough to have once met with the ancients as established) and that they are extremely intellegent, but have barely even scratched the surfice of what the ancients knew....

The ancients must be pretty old I think - the question is how old?

[Hohenzollern]

Good question.

Ayiana, the ancient who was found preserved near the site of the second gate in Antarctica was determined to have been there for 3 (+-) million years.

The Goa'ould brought a gate from offworld to Giza about 10,000 years ago, as the original Earth gate at Antarctica had long before been buried.

Didn't they say that the gate in Antarctica could have been in use as long as 50 million years ago? With conteninental drift, that land mass would not have been at the southern pole or covered with ice at that time.

So 50 million years ago, they had advanced tech...and what...figure 10 million max to evolve from primates and attain such tech, though they would not necessarily ascended until long after the antarctic gate was buried, so they could have still been developing when that gate was in use.

So I am guessing roughly 60 million years old give or take. 10 million to evolve is generous. Humans, supposedly began evolving from various hominids about 2.5 million years ago, and we have done OK in that amount of time, so to speak.

[Anubis]

I'm guessing anywhere between 50-100 million years old which makes sense

[Mio]

Asgard aren't THAT old of a race. 30 thousand years ago, they had limitted hyperspace capabilities, if any. (Revelations)

I'm going to agree with Anubis's estimate of 50-100 million years.

[Anubis]

Yay, someone agreed

[Mio]

I actually push towards the high end of 100mil :)

[Anubis]

I too agree. That's why I gave that figure

[aAnubiSs]

I really wonder why they would be interested in an alligiance with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings. They were far superior in all subjects(towards the Asgard atleast), and they don't seem to care about anyone now that they're ascended.

[Anubis]

Maybe because they were the good guys at the time and they though an alliance would make a big difference

[aAnubiSs]

Yes but why would they bother with inferior races then, and now now. Or did they all get new ethics and morales when they ascended. Or if they already were ascended during the allegiance.

A big different to which subject? The amount of gossip about the Ancients or?

[Anubis]

That's interesting. Were they ascended when the alliance was happening. I guess not. Since they did move to another part of the galaxy which I guess was the pegasus but was forced to retreat

[Kill_Baal vo.1]

Asgard aren't THAT old of a race. 30 thousand years ago, they had limitted hyperspace capabilities, if any. (Revelations)

Just because they couldn't use hyper drive capabilities 30,000 years ago doesn't mean that they are not an old race.

[Kill_Baal vo.1]

I really wonder why they would be interested in an alligiance with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings. They were far superior in all subjects(towards the Asgard atleast), and they don't seem to care about anyone now that they're ascended.

The asgard and the furlings I dont know about...

But the NOx probably because they could make things disappear with a wave of there hand... which the ancients could probably make some technology to do but not be able to just do it... which makes them a good ally

[aAnubiSs]

But why would the Ancients, who's been around for millions of years ally themselves with a race that has been hyperspacecapable just a few thousand years. Remember there once were a allegiance that took several millienia to form.

[Anubis]

They can't be older than the ancients cause the asgard used to look like the humans

[AgentX]

I agree with the earlier estimate of between 50-100 million years old for the Ancients. The logic presented seems well within reason. I hope we learn more about the Ancients this season.

[aAnubiSs]

I hope we learn more about the allegiance altogether.

[Anubis]

We should since Daniel is going to be dealing with his ascension business

[aAnubiSs]

But that will probably only be about him, not about the other races=)

[Anubis]

True, but we should learn some more

[aAnubiSs]

yes we SHOULD, but we WONT :(

[ButstonFreem]

The timeframe of the Ancients has been a mystery from the start. Its clear that they are many millions of years old however the time of their death is far from clear. Latin is based on the language of the Ancients and the "Ancient Ones" taught the Romans how to build roads...this would have to have occured around 3000 years ago. So either there were living Ancients or Asceneded Ancients in human form on Earth at this time. Their death and ascension must have progressed extremely slowly, taking perhaps millions of years. I hope that SG:A will give us some answers to the Ancients...I don't think that a race as advanced as the ancients could have been defeated by a plague.

[Torley]

Yeah, I'm guessing the Ancients are the oldest of the Four Races that once upon a time formed the Alliance. And that name "Ancients" kind of makes sense in that context :)

The Asgard, you know, are a bit puzzling. For their technological superiority to Earth, they sure don't seem to have evolved that much over the last 30,000 years in comparison to what leaps the humans have made for themselves in a few centuries. I wonder why this is? Diminishing returns from clones? Lack of ambition and complacency before the whole Goa'uld thing got started up again (I don't think so much System Lords have died in such short a time! :P)? So few of them?? Whatever the reason, I'm hoping for answers about the Ancients too.

The Wraith must have had something REALLY special to knock 'em off. But I bet, the Wraith have grown relatively lazy too in all those years. Goes to show, they don't make 'em like they used to! :D

[aAnubiSs]

Torley: It's always easier to copy and adapt then to invent totally new stuff :>

[Anubis]

I don't think we want totally new stuff in SG-1 but possibly Atlantis since SG-1 has limited screentime left, possibly

[Mio]

If ancient science and knowledge is so advanced, we better see some wierd and new things in Atlantis :)

[Anubis]

lol I agree, it will be weird and confusing! :D

[wilhelmganon]

I agree with Anubis on the age of the Ancients - based on what Frasier came up with in "Frozen" on top of the map of Earth seen in The Lost City, the Ancients have been around for at least 50 million years. HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that they all immediately died off/ascended at that point.

I believe that the plague was just the initial attack upon the Ancients - a preemptive strike, if you will. The Ancients (still centered in the Milky Way/Earth) took a hard hit, and retreated to other galaxies (Ida and Pegasus, perhaps?). Note that all Ancients did not necessarily die from the plague, and, in fact, such a scenario is EXTREMELY unlikely, as I doubt the Wraith could infect every single Ancient-occupied planet or outpost simultaneously.

The universe is a big place, and it wouldn't surprise me if a vestige of non-infected Ancients survived for millions of years after the initial Wraith attack. During that time, they could have met the "primitive" Asgard, and the famous "four race alliance" was formed.

Note that it's NEVER been stated that all of the Ancients are wiped out; in fact, the Asgard stated that they "moved on" from the Milky Way in The Fifth Race. Whether this was an allusion to their ascension or to the fact that some "mortal" Ancients are around somewhere is anyone's guess.

In summary of my theory: Ancients are original batch of humans from Earth (some dozens of millions ago), create Version 1.0 gate network, Wraith jumps them in Milky Way via plague, Ancients retreat to other galaxies, ally with other races, expand network, get attacked again, ?

[Anubis]

Yay, someone else who agrees! Mumahaaaaa! :p

[Mio]

Spoilers Rising





Actually, doesn't the holo-ancient explain that they went to pegasus to seed the galaxy, then encountered the wraith?

[wilhelmganon]

I have no idea, Mio - I haven't seen anything regarding "Rising."

[uknesvuinng]

Spoilers Rising





Actually, doesn't the holo-ancient explain that they went to pegasus to seed the galaxy, then encountered the wraith?

Extra spoiler space







Yes. The Wraith are presumably native to the Pegasus galaxy. The Ancients went to Pegasus to fill it with humans and stargates, unaware of the Wraith's presence. Ancients run into Wraith, get into a war, Wraith kick the Ancients all the way back to their base of operations Atlantis. Ancients hide the city underwater, evacuate through the gate to the Milky Way, and see the Wraith nevermore.

[aschen]

Just because a race is inferior, does not mean it's a bad idea to become ally. Think of the Asgard-Earth alliance. Different races have different ways of dealing a situation. I'm quite sure each race in the alliance had something to offer.

[yabyumpan]

What I'd like to know is what the Ancients actually call them selves. They must have a name other than The Ancients . What did they call themselves before they became ancient? The Youngsters? The Middle agers? I hope we find out this season because it really bugs me. Every SciFi show that enounters a really old race calls them The Ancients but we never find out what their real name actually is. :rolleyes:

[Mio]

What I'd like to know is what the Ancients actually call them selves. They must have a name other than The Ancients . What did they call themselves before they became ancient? The Youngsters? The Middle agers? I hope we find out this season because it really bugs me. Every SciFi show that enounters a really old race calls them The Ancients but we never find out what their real name actually is. :rolleyes:
The latin word for ancient was probably derived from the name of their race.

When english arose, the word Ancient has the same meaning as the latin word, which also happens to be their race name

At least, that's what i think

[Giantevilhead]

Asgard aren't THAT old of a race. 30 thousand years ago, they had limitted hyperspace capabilities, if any. (Revelations)


30,000 years ago, the Asgard had hyperspace technology which allowed them to travel from their galaxy to ours, I wouldn't call that "limited" hyperspace capabilities.

[Mio]

30,000 years ago, the Asgard had hyperspace technology which allowed them to travel from their galaxy to ours, I wouldn't call that "limited" hyperspace capabilities.
No.

The vessel was merely lost and drifted through the void between our galaxies for thirty thousand years.

[Giantevilhead]

No.

The vessel was merely lost and drifted through the void between our galaxies for thirty thousand years.

OK, the minimum distance between our galaxy and the Asgard's is 2.6 million lightyears which means that the ship had to be very very close to our galaxy to have "drifted" to that planet.

[Torley]

Torley: It's always easier to copy and adapt then to invent totally new stuff :>

The thing is, I've never seen "totally new stuff". Twists on old stuff, yes... but not something that doesn't rest on the proverbial shoulders of the giants that came before :)

[Mio]

OK, the minimum distance between our galaxy and the Asgard's is 2.6 million lightyears which means that the ship had to be very very close to our galaxy to have "drifted" to that planet. Maybe it 'drifted' in hyperspace? ::grasps for straws:: Caretak--err---wrong series....

In any case, they were in stasis, so it would stand to reason that they were at a 'gou'ald+' level of hyperspace travel.

[override367]

Well you have to consider, how long would it have taken humans in the Stargate universe to develop hyperdrive vessels without "borrowing" technology?

The Tolans had hyperdrive, but by comparison it was EXTREMELY slow to what the Asgard or even the Ghoul'd use

Also, you have to consider that the rate of technological advance over the last hundred years will probably not be sustained indefinetely, it seems to more advanced a race is the slower their tech improves, because necessity is the mother of invention, and once the necessity is gone... well, why continue to invent like crazy?

Another point why the "primitive" Asgard (who were probably on par with the current Ghoul'd technology if you discount Anubis) would be accepted into the alliance is that technological superiority doesn't seem to be the prerequisite, it seems to be how "young" a race acts.

The Asgard have probably been enlightened for a very long time, as are the Nox and the Furlings, which is why they were accepted (as far as we know, the Nox do not even posess hyperdrive, but they are one of the members, because they are clearly wayyyy more enlightened than most races)

my 2c

[uknesvuinng]

The Asgard have probably been enlightened for a very long time, as are the Nox and the Furlings, which is why they were accepted (as far as we know, the Nox do not even posess hyperdrive, but they are one of the members, because they are clearly wayyyy more enlightened than most races)

my 2c

Actually the Nox took the Tollan survivors to Tollana, which had no stargate, which implies they have pretty good hyperspace tech. They also have a floating city, and tech so well concealed and with a such a good UI, that they can operate it in a manner that would appear magical to even other races similar to the Nox level of tech (though such races would be aware that it's merely well designed tech). The Nox were probably the second most technologically advanced race in the Four Race alliance (hard to rank them without seeing more of the Furlings. The Asgard are likely the least advanced race in the Alliance (once again, not enough Furling to accurately compare). The Nox were also capable of building a stargate, though most of the system was probably hidden underneath the gate, meaning the gate probably couldn't be moved like other gates. The Nox are "enlightened", but they're also very technologically advanced.

[Giantevilhead]

The Nox helped the Tollans build their own stargate, they didn't use a ship. And there's no evidence suggesting that they're more advanced than the Asgard.

[Anubis]

I loved the Stargate the Tollan built, it was incredible. I wish other planets knew how to do things like that!

[Torley]

The Nox seem to attribute what they can do to more mystical/magical means, but that is a part of their generally reclusive/hidden personalities.

The Asgard do not seem to be very technologically advanced in light of what has happened to them over the years -- in fact, it goes to show how badly technology can work against a race.

[ButstonFreem]

The problem with the Asgard is there is no new blood to shake things up. They have been transfering their minds from body to body for who knows how long without any new minds in the mix. Most innovation comes from someone who questions the status flow and dares to be different and the older one gets the less willing they are to accept change.

[Joe Chen]

Insert Loki plot device here.

[Anubis]

I'm surprised the Asgard don't build their own gate, since they are very advanced

[Mio]

I'm surprised the Asgard don't build their own gate, since they are very advanced
They may very well have their own gate. We've only seen the gate on One planet, and who knows, it could have been built by the asgard, just in the Ancient design.

[SBacklin]

I dont know if this has been discussed before but if it has sorry.

How old do you think the ancients were before they assended or were wiped out? In New Order, Thor said the following

"You can not even begin to comprehend the extent of what was unfolding in O'Neill's mind. Our scientists long ago extracted parts of the ancient library of knowledge and learned much from it, but we have been studying it for as long as I can remember and we have barely scrathed the surfice"


and it is known that the asgard are a fairly old race. So with that said, we also know that the ancients were highly advanced but I am sure they were not just "automatically" advanced when they were born/created - it must of taken them a great deal of time to build up there knowledge to the level that it was at.

Considering that the Asgard are an old race (atleast old enough to have once met with the ancients as established) and that they are extremely intellegent, but have barely even scratched the surfice of what the ancients knew....

The ancients must be pretty old I think - the question is how old?

I would have to guess that they Ancients are the Eldest or the Elder of the 4 "older" races.

[ecm101]

Check out my posts in the thead

GateWorld Forum > The Gate Room > Atlantis - Season One
The History/Timeline of the Ancients ***BIG SPOILER ALERT (Mostly Rising)*******
#54 is all of my current time line thinking lol

Not only that my idea is that the Ancients came back from the end of the Universe. and Are realy The Humans of earth lol.

[aschen]

I would have to guess that they Ancients are the Eldest or the Elder of the 4 "older" races.

That's easy to assume, but we don't know a damned thing about the Furlings (except they can transport stuff) and very little about the Nox.

[Anubis]

The Ancients must be the oldest or at least second or third oldest race still alive or perhaps ever!

[thirdeyeblind105]

The Ancients must be the oldest or at least second or third oldest race still alive or perhaps ever!

I think that may be a bit of a strech since we only know of races from a handful of galaxies, but of the races we know definitely one of the oldest.

[Anubis]

I agree, we only know a handful but their technology seems so advanced for an older race

[Ancient 1]

50 million minimum. Glad we're all in agreement here!

[auir999]

for all we know it could have taken them hundreds of millions of years to evolve as they did.

[Jarnin]

Spoilers in white:

"...in the hope of spreading new life in a galaxy where there appeared to be none. Soon the new life grew and prospered.
Here, as before, we built a system of stargates so that fledgling civilizations could travel between the stars, exchange knowledge, and friendship. In time, a thousand worlds bore the fruit of life in this form.
Then one day our people set foot apon a dark world where a terrible enemy slept. Never before had we encountered beings with power that rivaled our own. In our overconfidence, we were unprepared, and outnumbered.
The enemy fed apon the defenseless human worlds like a great scourge until finally, only Atlantis remained. This cities great shield was powerful enough to withstand their terrible weapons, but here we were besieged for many years.

In an effort to save the last of our kind, we submerged our great city into the ocean. The Atlantis stargate was the one and only link back to Earth from this galaxy, and those who remained used it to return to that world that was once home. There, the last survivors of Atlantis lived out the remainder of their lives. This city was left to slumber, in the hopes that our kind would one day return."


I think the major hangup of that explanation is the fact that they used the word "home" in reference to Earth. This tends to make people think that the ancients are indeed originally from Earth, as in evolving here.

On the flip-side, your "home" is wherever you live at the time. Their base of operations in the Milky Way was on Earth. This doesn't mean that they're originally from Earth, they just lived here for a few million years.

If their sole purpose in life was to populate planets with humanoid life, then it's possible they didn't start with the Milky Way. They could have started a billion or more years ago, populating a portion of the universe with humanoid life. Then they headed to the milky way, stopping to populate the small dwarf galaxies in orbit around our galaxy (Othala, the furling galaxy, the Nox galaxy). Once the smaller galaxies were populated, they came to the Milky Way and spent a bunch of millions of years populating planets (including earth).
During those millions of years, the ancients got to meet some of their children from the smaller satellite galaxies they had populated earlier, and they formed an alliance to share friendship and knowledge.
Once the Milky Way was populated and life began appearing, they decided to uproot and head to the next galaxy over; Andromeda, stopping on the way to populate the Pegasus galaxy since it was on the way.
They wake up the Wraith (whoopsie!), and the Wraith gobble down most of the humans they had populated Pegasus with. Then the Wraith got to Atlantis, but they couldn't get through the shield. Since the ancients were so outnumbered, they decide to abandon the city and head back to Earth.

So, if they didn't evolve on Earth, which the show supports, they're much older than 50-100 million years. More likely...

...A billion or more.

[rmbeast]

They are so so so so so old i mean really old!!!!!!!!!