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GateWorld
September 8th, 2005, 10:21 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/209.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/209.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/209.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>AURORA</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 209</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
When the team finds an Ancient warship adrift on the edge of the galaxy, its crew still alive, Colonel Sheppard enters their virtual reality stasis to communicate with them.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/209.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Jeffer
September 19th, 2005, 05:03 PM
GREAT ep and heres the Spoilers









Ok first of all they communicate in a VR world the Aurora is a Sciences vessel that was doing recon for the Ancients they found a weakness in Wraith Tech. Only the vessel was two slow to get back very fast so they had to take the deady to see what was going on they find about 336 Ancients in Pods. So shep goes in to talk to them tell them what’s going on. Only they don't believe him because a Wraith has entered the pod of the First Officer who is of coures very HOT. Now shep spends most of his time trying to get the info on the Wraith Tech only to find out that the Wraith has deleted it from the computers. Now McKay finds away to take the Wraith out of the pod and then shep convinces them of the truth. Oh and did I mention while all this is happening 2 wraith Cruisers on there way. So the wraith is out of the VR and shep has to leave to but the Caption of the Aurora gives him the codes for the self destruct and it destroys the Wraith Cruisers. now you might be wondering why would the Wraith stay in the VR when the info on there weakness is gone well its because he was trying to modify the Ancient hyper drive so that he could modify the Wraith Hyper drive to get to BINGO EARTH
:eek:


Ok thats what i have to say anyone else from the Great White North have anyhting to add

MartoufMarty
September 19th, 2005, 05:06 PM
... It aired in Canada already???

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 19th, 2005, 05:07 PM
I know I'm not suppose to say this, but

I can't wait to download this (or maybe I'll wait till friday) :rolleyes:


... It aired in Canada already???
yeah, if SciFi had aired it Last friday, Canada would've seen it second, instead of us :(

Beal
September 19th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Pretty predictable, I figured out what the "engine upgrades" were for as soon as they were mentioned.

I liked that scene where McKay woke up the wraith and hadn't thought of what he was supposed to DO with it ^_^

Oh...And yarr ye scurvy dogs!

TOA
September 19th, 2005, 05:23 PM
It was a pretty good ep.

Its the first time this season in SGA where we see a positive view of the Ancients.

It also pretty much answers the whole why didnt the ancients fight thing too. ie they did.

Also as a heads up - those looking to see an Ancient ship err well you'll be disappointed, Aurora is really mashed when found :(

Just once I would like them to find an actual living Ancient, all this dodging is frustrating. I still cant get a specific answer to "are they extinct", theres always this over hanging thing sort of pointing towards the fact that they are either hiding amongst humans or have simply gone elsewhere.

<sigh>

In either case I think the ep was good, one of my favourites thus far in S2 and certainly better than the last 2 episodes (which kinda didnt work for me).


TOA

AcidSquid
September 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Personally








I thought it was kinda dumb..
No offence.. They could just destroy the dumb old cruisers,
Leaving a valuble ancient ship destroyed in space
Now, No offence Shepp, Logic is key when you make decisions like that
Why didn't they like beam some of them into the daedalus sure, they would be old and frail but hey. Hello Ancients :S



Lets see what you think :D

keppiezbt
September 19th, 2005, 06:27 PM
GREAT ep and heres the Spoilers









Ok first of all they communicate in a VR world the Aurora is a Sciences vessel that was doing recon for the Ancients they found a weakness in Wraith Tech. Only the vessel was two slow to get back very fast so they had to take the deady to see what was going on they find about 336 Ancients in Pods. So shep goes in to talk to them tell them what’s going on. Only they don't believe him because a Wraith has entered the pod of the First Officer who is of coures very HOT. Now shep spends most of his time trying to get the info on the Wraith Tech only to find out that the Wraith has deleted it from the computers. Now McKay finds away to take the Wraith out of the pod and then shep convinces them of the truth. Oh and did I mention while all this is happening 2 wraith Cruisers on there way. So the wraith is out of the VR and shep has to leave to but the Caption of the Aurora gives him the codes for the self destruct and it destroys the Wraith Cruisers. now you might be wondering why would the Wraith stay in the VR when the info on there weakness is gone well its because he was trying to modify the Ancient hyper drive so that he could modify the Wraith Hyper drive to get to BINGO EARTH
:eek:


Ok thats what i have to say anyone else from the Great White North have anyhting to add

that was the worse synopsis of an episode...

EyeStrain
September 19th, 2005, 06:28 PM
because he was trying to modify the Ancient hyper drive so that he could modify the Wraith Hyper drive to get to BINGO EARTH


Ancient hyperdrives slow? :S

TOA
September 19th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Ancient hyperdrives slow? :S

It was explained in the episode that the ancients used two types of hyperdrives, one was designed for in-galaxy transit, one was for galactic level travel. Aurora was equipped with the in-galaxy version.

In the episode its said that it would take over a month to reach Atlantis from where Aurora is. By comparison it took only a few days for Daedaleus.

Jeffer
September 19th, 2005, 07:00 PM
that was the worse synopsis of an episode...
thats what i had to say about the ep so if you want to wright your own version go rigth ahead and give that it was the first time i have ever done anything like this i think i did ok

GateMan2000
September 19th, 2005, 07:04 PM
One question...if there were 336 ancients on board...did they bother to wake any of them up!? That is if they were still alive...If they were and they blew up the ship...why didn't they wake at least one or 2 up?

Jeffer
September 19th, 2005, 07:07 PM
because they were so old that they would have died

GateMan2000
September 19th, 2005, 07:09 PM
in statis pods?

Jeffer
September 19th, 2005, 07:16 PM
in statis pods?
from what i understood they would have died almost insinatly if they woke them up. like the Captin said we have been in Stais for 10000 years our bodies must be old and shep said yes Too old

Its Stais but you body still ages just at a slower rate like Weir in Before I Sleep

verbalkint
September 19th, 2005, 09:56 PM
from what i understood they would have died almost insinatly if they woke them up. like the Captin said we have been in Stais for 10000 years our bodies must be old and shep said yes Too old

Its Stais but you body still ages just at a slower rate like Weir in Before I Sleep
But unlike Weir, wouldn't the Ancients healing abilities allow them to handle the aging in the statis pods better once awakened? Just doesn't seem too bright to have Weir be able to last several days after she gets out of the statis pods but not the ancients. I certainly hope McKay found something out that could be useful in the future or else this episode will be one gigantic waste of my time.

birdieey
September 19th, 2005, 10:01 PM
I probably should have posted this in one of the other threads, but since I like (and rarely get the opportunity to) start threads.... :) Here is a synopsis of the ep. with a couple quick notes at the end (the titles are chess terms).


"The Opening Move"
The episode begins with a short scene between Ronan and Weir. Two "scientists" are playing chess in the cafeteria, but to Ronan it seems that they are just staring at each other. Weir enters with her tray of brightly coloured jello in tow and asks Ronan if he would mind if she joined him. After explaining the finer points of chess to him (it's about plotting your next move and the move after that etc) he excuses himself, telling her he is leaving. (he's not very impressed with the strategies of chess) She mistakenly believes he is leaving the team and begins to rail on about the amount of time and resources Sheppard has put into him, to which he explains that he is "just leaving the table" (jeez can you blame him?) She quickly apologizes and luckily for her the awkward moment is interrupted by a communicae from Rodney.

"Occupation"
Rodney explains that with the new zpm in place (Siege 3 - 2x01) more Atlantis systems are now online. One of these systems tracked Ancient warships during the war and has sent out a beacon that recalls these ships back to Atlantis. Of course this ship (that is being picked up on the sensors) is so far away that the only way to reach it is with the Daedalus, giving Weir another opportunity to lock horns with Cadwell, and giving us a team shot worthy of a comic book cover ('Nuff said). On the way to the Ancient ship they find that a Wraith scout ship has also detected the Aurora, but no problem they just simply drop out of warp/hyperspace/whatever and blow it up. When they actually arrive at the warship they are a little disappointed, it's obviously been through some rough times and is a little worse for wear. On board they find hundred of stasis pods, with the Ancients inside but they are so old that reviving them would kill them. Rodney realizes that the pods are linked - (like in the Matrix) and that if he puts himself in stasis he can "log on" and communicate with them, only Sheppard thinks it's safer if he goes instead of Rodney. In a beautiful scene of reverse psychology, Teyla asks McKay "If something were to go wrong, who would be the greater loss?" McKay (obviously) concludes it would be him and agrees that Sheppard should go in his place. (Loved the look on Sheppards face as he tried to figure out if Teya was serious or not).

"Transitions"
Sheppard arrives in the virtual world (aka "The Matrix") and surprise, suprise, they don't know they are in a "virtual environment" and think Sheppard is nuts. (this could also have something to do with the way he kinda lightly sways when he sees a pretty girl :) They quickly throw him into lock-up and explain that they are too busy working on the "Hyper drive" (that will get them back to Atlantis quickly) to deal with him right now. They also mention something about a wraith weakness they've discovered that will help them win the war. He "clicks his heels together three times" and poof he's back in the real world. After explaining the situation to Rodney and Cadwell he goes back in and tries to explain "the truth" (about the war, how much time has passed etc) to the Captain's First Officer (aka pretty girl), but she's not buying. Back in da real world Cadwell tells Rodney that 2 Wraith ships are on their way (probably trying to figure out what happened to their scout ship) and Teyla and Ronan find a Wraith inside one of the pods. It seems that the Wraith have found Aurora a long time ago and have figured out how to tap into the "virtual environment" system. Sheppard uses some Jedi mind tricks to get out of his cell but he is caught and returned before he can make any head way with the Captain. Cadwell (who is worried about the approaching Wraith cruisers) tells Rodney to get Sheppard out of the pod, so he can destroy the Aurora, but because Sheppard is unconscious inside the "virtual environment" Rodney says it's too risky. Cadwell (who IMO seems much to eager bring harm to Sheppard) says it's worth the risk. "Do it, or my men will." Of course Rodney can't let his good buddy die, so he decides to go into "the Matrix" to get him.

"Time Pressure"
Rodney arrives in the "virtual world" and is put in the brig with Sheppard. He tells him about the Wraith on the inside (which I just realized is kinda like Agent Smith jacking into the real world) and Sheppard immediately realizes it's the First Officer, I mean come on she didn't even bat an eye lash at all his flirting. :) They bust out of prison, Rodney is shocked by how hot the Wraith girl is, and they discover that the information about the Wraith weakness has been deleted. They also realize that the Wraith are using the simulation to gather information on how to supe up their hyperdrives so they can get to earth. Rodney now remembers to tell Sheppard about the 2 wraith ships on the way and that Cadwell intends to blow up the Aurora any minute. Sheppard tells him to go and disconnect the wraith while he tries to get the information (about the Wraith weakness) from the Captain.
Sheppard makes it to the bridge and exposes the First Officer as a wraith, at first the Captain doesn't believe him, but as Rodney tries to disconnect her/him/the wraith from the program some disturbingly wraith like features begin to show through the "hot girl" facade. When she disappears altogether the Captain realizes that Sheppard is telling the truth. Meanwhile Rodney now has to deal with a semi conscious wraith back on the Aurora and hilarity ensues as he shoots at it while simultaneously running away. :) Back in the "virtual environment" the Captain tells Sheppard that he does not have the information on the wraith weakness. The Ancient Council stored the comminuncae in the ships computer (which has been erased) but never told him what was in it. He (the captain) ponders the fate of him and his crew (being that they are all too old to be revived and can never return to Atlantis) and then asks Sheppard for a favour.

"Breakthrough"
Sheppard and Rodney beam back to the Daedulus and explain that the Captain has given them the self destruct code for the Aurora and assured him that the blast will take out the two Wraith cruisers as well. They move to a safe distance and watch the fireworks go off making sure that nothing was communicated from the Wraith ships before they were destroyed. Back on Atlantis after debriefing Weir they follow through with Sheppards promise to the captain and raise a toast to the crew of the Aurora.

Quick Notes:
- Woo hoo! Rodney back in form! And is just me or is he starting to have some serious "man love" for Sheppard :)
- I know I mentioned it above but I really like Sheppard's reaction to Teylas reverse psychology. She also did a good job of both lying to Cadwell and convincing him to be patient with Rodney.
- Lot's of similarities to the Matrix, even the music was similar. When Rodney said he was going in after Sheppard I almost laughed out loud because it was just like when Neo and Trinity were going in for Morpheus. And the scene when Sheppard and Rodney break out of the brig...
- Overall it was an okay episode except that we didn't really learn anything about the Ancients or the wraith except that the Wraith are still trying to get to earth.

I'm sure I'll have more to say when it's not 2:00 am in the morning. :)

lates,

Franklyn Blaze
September 19th, 2005, 10:11 PM
A decent episode, but what I don't understand is time inside the "virtual environment" and outside seemed to pass at the same rate.

The example of this being when Sheppard was imprisoned (the first time) within the simulation he exited the simulated world, then waited a little while and went back in. By that time the guard was inside his cell checking where he went and he was able to escape.

So if 10,000 years go by why didn't the ancients figure out something was just a little wrong when they didn't age or die after so long?


The episode really reminded me of a TNG ep where the enterprise finds the ruins Iconia, with no people but amazing tech, and they have to destroy it to prevent the Romulans from getting hold of the all the advanced tech. The plot seems really old and used up in many series.

Amalthia
September 19th, 2005, 11:51 PM
I thought the episode was predictable too...I figured out who the Wraith was almost right away because the woman was trying really hard to prevent Sheppard from speaking to the captain. Also none of the other characters on the ship stood out.

What saved this episode was the character interactions. I loved the Sheppard/McKay moments and the Teyla/Ronon moment. the beginning was kind of cute too. :)

I also didn't like the time pressure in the episode and I think they could have defrosted some of the ancients. it's just frustrating that they never really learn more about them. Though I think McKay may have mentioned that the pods weren't quite like what they had at Atlantis...so maybe that's why they would die. but surely some of those ancients were young when they went in? I mean if someone was 18...wouldn't they have a better shot than the people already 3 decades older? if you tried to revive them?

Anyway, I'm trying not to compare SGA to BSG...but episodes like this make me wonder if the writers of BSG wrote an episode for SGA would it be much better?

Beal
September 20th, 2005, 12:32 AM
A decent episode, but what I don't understand is time inside the "virtual environment" and outside seemed to pass at the same rate.

The example of this being when Sheppard was imprisoned (the first time) within the simulation he exited the simulated world, then waited a little while and went back in. By that time the guard was inside his cell checking where he went and he was able to escape.

So if 10,000 years go by why didn't the ancients figure out something was just a little wrong when they didn't age or die after so long?


The episode really reminded me of a TNG ep where the enterprise finds the ruins Iconia, with no people but amazing tech, and they have to destroy it to prevent the Romulans from getting hold of the all the advanced tech. The plot seems really old and used up in many series.


McKay said the VR only started up when they activated the recall program on Atlantis and it started broadcasting it's beacon, this was a guess though. I think it's more likely the beacon was activated, and the wraith got to it first and figured out that they could wipe the short term memory of the people in the pods and start up the VR.

Carbito
September 20th, 2005, 01:02 AM
Good episode.

Seeing as how Canadian TV is airing Stargate Atlantis does this mean there will be no long summer mid-season break? Will it continue to air on Canadian TV like it did last season?

Shep'sSocks
September 20th, 2005, 01:56 AM
But unlike Weir, wouldn't the Ancients healing abilities allow them to handle the aging in the statis pods better once awakened? Just doesn't seem too bright to have Weir be able to last several days after she gets out of the statis pods but not the ancients. I certainly hope McKay found something out that could be useful in the future or else this episode will be one gigantic waste of my time.

What healing abilities? There's been no mention of that. And I note that healing abilities are different to slowing the aging process.

Hatcheter
September 20th, 2005, 01:59 AM
...and giving us a team shot worthy of a comic book cover ('Nuff said).

:D How true:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Hatcheter/SGA-trailer/aurora-teamshot.jpg

LateFan
September 20th, 2005, 03:22 AM
After episode 10 airs next monday their schedule shows reruns for at least 5 weeks after. http://www.themovienetwork.ca/stargateatlantis/schedule.php

On a sidenote, Space in Canada starts airing SG-1 Season 9 on Thursday November 10th and if they go straight through the should either air 1 day ahead of SciFi or 6 days behind.

keppiezbt
September 20th, 2005, 03:59 AM
I had higher expectations for this episode. i mean why cant we at least get something out of it. A little dissapointed.

We dont get any "intel", no ancients, no back story.

Solid episode but ehh, i had wanted more.

Nee
September 20th, 2005, 04:18 AM
i was expecting something good from aurora, shame it was no better than a regular episode.

White Knight
September 20th, 2005, 04:18 AM
I especially liked Weir at the start. Funny.
The rest of the ep was good, too.

ancient1978
September 20th, 2005, 06:29 AM
i was expecting something good from aurora, shame it was no better than a regular episode.

i can only agree with you. It was a dissapointment for me. So much talk about it but on the end nothing special... From 1-10 (best) i would rate it 4. i

Jeffer
September 20th, 2005, 06:55 AM
:D How true:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Hatcheter/SGA-trailer/aurora-teamshot.jpg
yeah that was an awesome scine i also like the way they ended it showing respect to the crew that gave there lives for them

TOA
September 20th, 2005, 07:50 AM
Good episode.

Seeing as how Canadian TV is airing Stargate Atlantis does this mean there will be no long summer mid-season break? Will it continue to air on Canadian TV like it did last season?


It looks like we will get the same pattern as last year (inleast on the east coast - iow those folks that get TMN). So it will likely air repeats for the first 10 episodes and then head straight into the back half in late November to mid December.


Folks in the west receiving Movie Central will likely catch up or even pass the east coast in this time frame (Im rooting for this even if I cant receive MC).

Shonaille
September 20th, 2005, 08:12 AM
I know some people said that nothing came of this episode but the writers did say that things the team learned from this ep will come into play later in the season. That's one of the things that I like about SGA, after you rewatch an entire season you see that's the writers have been building on the story since the first ep.

macktheknife
September 20th, 2005, 08:16 AM
I'm tired, it's 2:12 am here in sydney. I have a small amount of things to say:

1) The ancient first officer was a total babe. Move over heightmeyer, we have a new hottest babe that's been on atlantis. I think Rodney knew the score on that number. And i'm sure Sheppard did too (although I'm sure he was thinking of weir the whole time).

2)um... I did'nt figure out the hyperdrive thing at all until pretty much they said it on the show. Pretty good IMO, I was wondering what the weakness is, but that's probably for a future episode.

3) That ancient First Officer was HOT!

4) Caldwell was a bit angsty, whinging all the damn time. He should just stfu for a bit and let them save the day.

5) And they did'nt get anything other than an exploded Ancient ship, and some sort of "info" that the "wraith have a weakness", they seem to have a weakness regarding get shot with bullets, maybe that was the super info.

6) Why the hell did they need to go on a "recon" operation when they were simply delivering the info BACK to atlantis. If they needed to pick it up, and it's so vital, you'd take your smallest\fastest ship, or your biggest\fastest warship, and then come straight back, not some middle of the road scout ship.

7) The wraith. They apparently destroyed it the first time, what stopped them from blowing it to hell? I doubt the wraith was there from when they killed it to when they reactivated atlantis.

8) How did they get into pods if the entire bridge was smashed. The bridge being smashed should indicate their got totally OWNED by the wraith, and probably would'nt have enough time to get into the pods to begin with.

Jeffer
September 20th, 2005, 08:40 AM
ok here's one thing i didn't get it looked like some of those pods were on the Bridge but you didn't see them at all when shep was in the VR

EyeStrain
September 20th, 2005, 08:41 AM
Why would the ancients need to know the "weakness" of the Wraith Tech when in fact their own tech is superior. :S Wraith cruiser hyperspace window looked awfully like the Daedalus hyperspace window. :S

We also learn that they have two kinds of hyperdrive

1. Interstellar-Aurora is equip with. It would take them months to get back to Atlantis.

2.Intergalactic- similar to the Daedalus hyperdrives. I think the Asgard have better hyperdrives.


Good episode, but it went so fast and never got to learn anything from the ancients.

slammed
September 20th, 2005, 10:03 AM
it was an ok episode, but it frustrated me more than I actually enjoyed it. the possibility for so much knowledge, lost in a hour period...weak sauce

keppiezbt
September 20th, 2005, 10:36 AM
I hope Joe and Martin read this and wise up for next episodes. I mean i mean with so much potential, give us a little bit! ok so we know the wraith have a weaknes.....fine

why couldnt we learn more about the ancient/wraith war? this was a prime spot to toss some tidbits in.

White Knight
September 20th, 2005, 01:42 PM
I think many people are missing the point.
As a part of the 'finding out about the Ancient/Wraith war' story-arc or something similar, this episode didn't do the job. But it wasn't meant to. It was supposed to be a one-off, self contained episode - something that I've been sorely missing from Atlantis.
Me, I enjoyed it. I picked up something wrong with the First Officer (who is hot!) early on, I liked that it was a virtual reality rather than the parallel reality touted in the promos, and you could see Caldwell getting more and more angsty as F.A.R.T. kept defying him, whihc probably won't bode well in the future.
I stand by my original thought; it was a good, entertaining one-off episode of Atlantis.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 20th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Just watched it and it was pretty good. Using GateWorld's Episode rating system, I'd rate it a **1/2 to *** (I can't choose between the two)

Good parts:
Ronon Watching the two guys playing chess
Sheppard's team already ready for the mission
The ending (the toast)

Wraith_Hunter
September 20th, 2005, 02:37 PM
The thing that I don'ty like about these eps, is whenever they come across some cool ancient tech you know it's eventually gonna get the **** blown out of it. Such as: 'Siege 1 & Trinity."

Those scenarios are legendary in the SG universe & that annoys the hell out of me. A bit like Bond & his new car, You just know what's going to happen before it actually does.

Also I'm sure Daedalus could have taken care of the two Cruisers & thus preserved the Aurora for a tad longer before more backup arrived. Essentially enough time to get access from the computers & also get Rodney & the Daedalus scientists filled in on the inner workings of Ancient tech from the Aurora crew by using the empty pods. Like Trinity I'm sure nothing of any real importance was gained from the whole experience.

Lastly it would have been a far better ending to see some of the crew get revived & struggle to their posts on the bridge, if even only for a few secs. To see them go down fighting to the very end before taking themselves out in a self-destruction.

Taonas
September 20th, 2005, 02:42 PM
It looks like we will get the same pattern as last year (inleast on the east coast - iow those folks that get TMN). So it will likely air repeats for the first 10 episodes and then head straight into the back half in late November to mid December.


Folks in the west receiving Movie Central will likely catch up or even pass the east coast in this time frame (Im rooting for this even if I cant receive MC).
Actually last year it premiered on November 8th, so if things follow like last year, it should premier on November 7th this year.

alkalinemono
September 20th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Pretty predictable, I figured out what the "engine upgrades" were for as soon as they were mentioned.

I liked that scene where McKay woke up the wraith and hadn't thought of what he was supposed to DO with it ^_^

Oh...And yarr ye scurvy dogs!
or the way he ran away flailing his arms like a girl and trying 2 shoot it was brilliant acting!!

ThomasDM
September 20th, 2005, 03:00 PM
I just saw this episode and it leaves me behind with lots of unanswered questions:

Why did the Ancients place themselves in pods, and for how long?

When did the Wraith find this ship? McKay says the Wraith girl only accessed the system recently but it looks like the Aurora already encountered the Wraith a long time ago because it was damaged.

Another very strange thing is that this ship needed to take a message to Atlantis. I believe this was manipulation from the Wraith girl because it really doesn't make sense. Why would the Ancients send such an important message with a slow spaceship? They could have done it with one of their faster ships, beam it to Atlantis or just simply use the stargate! Maybe even the Aurora had a stargate..

smushybird
September 20th, 2005, 03:02 PM
I probably should have posted this in one of the other threads, but since I like (and rarely get the opportunity to) start threads.... :)

That was a great synopsis. Thank you very much!
I'm looking forward to the ep much more than I was.

Taonas
September 20th, 2005, 03:04 PM
I just saw this episode and it leaves me behind with lots of unanswered questions:

Why did the Ancients place themselves in pods, and for how long?

When did the Wraith find this ship? McKay says the Wraith girl only accessed the system recently but it looks like the Aurora already encountered the Wraith a long time ago because it was damaged.

Another very strange thing is that this ship needed to take a message to Atlantis. I believe this was manipulation from the Wraith girl because it really doesn't make sense. Why would the Ancients send such an important message with a slow spaceship? They could have done it with one of their faster ships, beam it to Atlantis or just simply use the stargate! Maybe even the Aurora had a stargate..
My theory is that the "message" could just simply have been the Wraith trying to get the hyperdrive improvements from the Ancients.

Also, it was clearly stated that the Ancients were in statis for 10,000 years. As for why the Wraith only recently found the ship I think it's because as far as they were concerned the ship was dead 10,000 years ago.

ThomasDM
September 20th, 2005, 03:16 PM
My theory is that the "message" could just simply have been the Wraith trying to get the hyperdrive improvements from the Ancients.

The show talks about a weakness from the Wraith. That they are interested in acquiring Ancient intergalactic hyperdrive technology isn't really a weakness


Also, it was clearly stated that the Ancients were in statis for 10,000 years. As for why the Wraith only recently found the ship I think it's because as far as they were concerned the ship was dead 10,000 years ago.
Yes, indeed the show says they were in statis for 10,00 years. But I don't understand why they went in stasis. It looks like they were attacked (by the Wraith?) but it's strange the attackers didn't completely destroy the ship. And it's also weird the Wraith didn't enter the ship 10,000 years ago.

Steve_the_Wraith
September 20th, 2005, 03:24 PM
The thing that I don'ty like about these eps, is whenever they come across some cool ancient tech you know it's eventually gonna get the **** blown out of it. Such as: 'Siege 1 & Trinity."

Those scenarios are legendary in the SG universe & that annoys the hell out of me. A bit like Bond & his new car, You just know what's going to happen before it actually does.

Also I'm sure Daedalus could have taken care of the two Cruisers & thus preserved the Aurora for a tad longer before more backup arrived. Essentially enough time to get access from the computers & also get Rodney & the Daedalus scientists filled in on the inner workings of Ancient tech from the Aurora crew by using the empty pods. Like Trinity I'm sure nothing of any real importance was gained from the whole experience.

Lastly it would have been a far better ending to see some of the crew get revived & struggle to their posts on the bridge, if even only for a few secs. To see them go down fighting to the very end before taking themselves out in a self-destruction.
Yup standard SG senario - find alien tech and then promptly lose it or destroy it to keep it from the baddies or its destroyed while being used. TPTB really make the teams work for it, the only tech they ever really get to keep is the stuff built on earth or in the case of Atlantis found in the city.

'Bout the Daedalus once the wraith ships adapted to Asgard beaming tech the Daedalus' weapons became useless. It may be faster and better shielded but it has no way of beating the cruisers

But regarding the Daedalus, don't the wraith think it was destroyed along with the city? If so keeping the Daedalus a secret is a priority, its weapons may suck, but the wraith know it came from earth so its navigation data and more importantly Hyperdrive can never be allowed to fall into their hands



Yes, indeed the show says they were in statis for 10,00 years. But I don't understand why they went in stasis. It looks like they were attacked (by the Wraith?) but it's strange the attackers didn't completely destroy the ship. And it's also weird the Wraith didn't enter the ship 10,000 years ago.

The way I see it, the Aurora, was on its way back to Atlantis and was attacked. It managed to defeat the wraith ships but was critically damaged - the ship was dead in space. Dead in space equals no energy signal so Aurora might as well have been any other hunk of metal drifting through space to longrange sensors, afterall the Atlantis team didn't find it with their sensors but by the Ancient tracking system that can detect Ancient "Transponders" (honestly I don't know how they did it but that sounds about right). So the crew tuck themselves into stasis pods and wait for a rescue that never comes because their race abandon the galaxy.

As for the pods themselves, has it ever said how long the Ancients lived for? I got the impression that they lived a LONG time. Bare in mind that Merlin left Atlantis in 8,000 BC and lived up until 500 AD (-ish). However after 10,000 years in stasis they were dying of old age. Thats how long Weir lasted. The only thing I can think of to explain it is that the pods on Aurora are different from Old Weirs capsule - maybe they were only meant for short term use - lifeboats until they could be picked up by another ship and therefore didn't slow or barely slowed the aging process

GateMan2000
September 20th, 2005, 03:25 PM
The show talks about a weakness from the Wraith. That they are interested in acquiring Ancient intergalactic hyperdrive technology isn't really a weakness


Yes, indeed the show says they were in statis for 10,00 years. But I don't understand why they went in stasis. It looks like they were attacked (by the Wraith?) but it's strange the attackers didn't completely destroy the ship. And it's also weird the Wraith didn't enter the ship 10,000 years ago.


I just watched it...The was the first full feldged Anicents with tech show that has been shown. The Wraith didn't board because the ship was dead in space...The wraith didn't know where it was. The wraith erased the data as soon as it found out they knew their weakness. But like most things...There are more than one weakness...The Tauri will find a weakness...Maybe its when they find a way to create a new virus that will convert all of the wraith to human for good.!!!!!

ThomasDM
September 20th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I just watched it...The was the first full feldged Anicents with tech show that has been shown. The Wraith didn't board because the ship was dead in space...The wraith didn't know where it was. The wraith erased the data as soon as it found out they knew their weakness. But like most things...There are more than one weakness...The Tauri will find a weakness...Maybe its when they find a way to create a new virus that will convert all of the wraith to human for good.!!!!!
If the Wraith didn't know where the ship was then who attacked the ship? The ship was damaged so probably it has fought the Wraith.

But one of my theories is that there was never any information about a Wraith weakness on the Aurora. The Wraith was on a mission to acquire the intergalactic hyperdrive technology and I believe the Wraith were manipulating the system to make everyone believe the Aurora was on a mission to deliver a message to Atlantis. For an advanced race like then Ancients it doesn't really make sense to send such an important message with a slow ship.

Wraith_Hunter
September 20th, 2005, 03:50 PM
'Bout the Daedalus once the wraith ships adapted to Asgard beaming tech the Daedalus' weapons became useless. It may be faster and better shielded but it has no way of beating the cruisers

But regarding the Daedalus, don't the wraith think it was destroyed along with the city? If so keeping the Daedalus a secret is a priority, its weapons may suck, but the wraith know it came from earth so its navigation data and more importantly Hyperdrive can never be allowed to fall into their hands

It's possible that they couldn't overcome the beaming problem, but I personally think that's just the Hive ships which that applies to. They used their shields to Jam the Beaming tech. Cruisers I don't think have that luxury. Even on the chance the Cruisers have also adapted themselves then even a few metres outside the hull would be enough to severely damage them.

One thing that really irks me regarding the Daedalus's offensive capabilities is why they don't take a PJ from Atlantis & house it in the hanger bay alongside the 302's. This way, incase of dire straits & they were really backed up against a wall then they at least have a few Drones as a last resort.

I know the Wraith think that Atlantis was gone along with the Daedalus, but it's possible that to them it's another ship of the same class, such as their Cruiser model. To them that could be a single enemy ship wandering the Pegasus galaxy looking for Ancient tech & such stuff.

EyeStrain
September 20th, 2005, 05:35 PM
It's sad that Shep had to activate self-destruct, blowing it up along with its crew. Why on space(celestial speaking) would they send a slow ass ship to do a reconnaissance? It would have also took them months to get back to Atlantis. :S

The portrayal of the ancient's in this eipsode suggest they were pretty damn
weak and gullible. :S Maybe the captain only :D

SnoggingPicard
September 20th, 2005, 06:55 PM
Eyestrain -- I LOVE your sig! It made my day. :D

macktheknife
September 20th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Why on space(celestial speaking) would they send a slow ass ship to do a reconnaissance? It would have also took them months to get back to Atlantis. :S


Too many strangeness.

Atlantis Db says the ship is on "recon".

The captain says they have important information about a wraith weakness, but that the council itself on Atlantis said it's too important for you to know.

Why are they on a "recon" mission then. You would assume that they found the information themselves, not that they are picking it up from somewhere encrypted for the ancient council to look over.

The wraith manipulated the people, but they obviously know that the actual "recon\courier" mission was a success, and they need to go back to atlantis, which is where the wraith decides he wants the hyper tech (Just how easy is it to transform an in-galaxy hyper drive to a full inter-galactic hyper drive?).

Why did'nt they beam the info back to atlantis? Where did the info come from? Why were they on a recon mission, but then not have access or knoweledge of the "recon" info\weakness they got. Strange.

deathbed1983
September 20th, 2005, 09:56 PM
overall i thought this epidsode was pretty good, i give it a 8 out of 10.

Dorka
September 21st, 2005, 12:01 AM
Hm..., this is my least favourite episode this season!

We could have learned so much about the ancients, but after this eps, I really can't imagine them to be the great builders of the Stargate. They were really too weak!
It was a good John-McKay-Friendship episode, with a little Teyla-Ronon-shippy-hint.
Caldwell just can't turn out to be a nice guy... somehow I'm just waiting for the moment...
I really hope next weeks episode will be better!

Shep'sSocks
September 21st, 2005, 12:21 AM
Hm..., this is my least favourite episode this season!

We could have learned so much about the ancients, but after this eps, I really can't imagine them to be the great builders of the Stargate. They were really too weak!

Civilisation in decline. Happens all the time.

uknesvuinng
September 21st, 2005, 08:26 AM
As an American who hasn't seen the episode, I have to ask. Did they give a reason for using two different hyperdrive types? Was it to prevent the Wraith from getting intergalatic drives, or were their intergalactic drives so fast that they'd overshoot any intragalactic destination? Or did they just want to be complicated and have a slower model hyperdrive when one standard model would do?

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 08:35 AM
please why did you do a self destruct episode, they are the worst, most pointles episode in the genre, i said to myself that aurora was going to make or break the season and frankly im disappoints and let down by that episode. the ship wasnt even real, the ancient weapons were like zat only a little cooler and there was wraith involved, this episode sucked, we got to see an ancient ship, there cool but the plot was stupid and im gutted and annoyed something good didnt come out of it.......bad call PTB, you broke the season!

agree?

sgafansam
September 21st, 2005, 08:36 AM
how did you see it already?

A Whiter Shade
September 21st, 2005, 08:39 AM
hmmm. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 08:41 AM
i feel let down, p***ed off and i really just want to rewrite or erase that episode, i actually wish id never seen that episode, its ruined this season, an ancient ship was the last thing left for the atlantis team to find and it got blown up, why dont they blow themselves up and end the season now! i swear if they dont find another ship thats intact and real in the next 3 eps ill give up....ill actually give up on stargate atlantis.

iLemon
September 21st, 2005, 08:56 AM
There's really no point in swearing immhotep. The ship may have blown up but most of the stuff we find either doesnt work, gets broken or blown up. I am slightly disappointed that Aurora blew up but it was still a great ep, we finally got to meet some living Ancients which was the main point of the ep.
And the episode wasn't for nothing, we learnt the Wraiths have a weakness and that will give us a major advantage once we find out what it is.

Qasim
September 21st, 2005, 09:07 AM
It was obvious we werent going to keep the ship

Its the oldest scifi cliche in the book

Wass
September 21st, 2005, 09:26 AM
As an American who hasn't seen the episode, I have to ask. Did they give a reason for using two different hyperdrive types? Was it to prevent the Wraith from getting intergalatic drives, or were their intergalactic drives so fast that they'd overshoot any intragalactic destination? Or did they just want to be complicated and have a slower model hyperdrive when one standard model would do?
There was no explanation for it, but if you think about it possible the intragalactic hyper drives are more complicated and much more expensive to build.

Mclogan
September 21st, 2005, 09:31 AM
Whenever I see a SA ancients I get wondering what makes them so powerful. In “Before I sleep” the ancients look pretty human to me, same in Aurora. Where are their superpowers? They don’t look smart than any average human, nothing closer to ascension. Somehow, when u see the ancients leaving earth to Pegasus millions of years a go, they look very advanced, they even read each others minds, instead of talking.

Would the crew in Aurora ascend after dieing? Or are Pegasus ancients pre-ascension ancients?

Wass
September 21st, 2005, 09:35 AM
Over all a deeply disappointing episode after all the build up. As stand alone episode I thought it was not too bad but what let it down was the fact that they built up wraith tech weakness story and at the end nothing came out of it. I can understand TPTB not wanting the big enemy (wraith) to look really weak and easy to kill but few hints of wraith weaknesses would have made this episode a lot better. A great potential at learning more about the ancient/wraith war has been lost. I would give it 4 out of 10.

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 09:38 AM
There's really no point in swearing immhotep. The ship may have blown up but most of the stuff we find either doesnt work, gets broken or blown up. I am slightly disappointed that Aurora blew up but it was still a great ep, we finally got to meet some living Ancients which was the main point of the ep.
And the episode wasn't for nothing, we learnt the Wraiths have a weakness and that will give us a major advantage once we find out what it is.
the point of the episode was the ship, screw the ancients we have the database the point is always the ship, and swearing is the only rational way i can express how frustrated i am at them doing one of those pathetic self destruct eps agian, it ruined atlantis for me, the first one of those episodes and a show is going to be crap from that point forward, i dont care what you say, if you introduce the words 'ancient ship 'and 'self destruct' and dont give a gilm worthy episode then what is the point!

Gary83uk
September 21st, 2005, 09:44 AM
I dont see what the big deal is, I dont think anyone was under the impression we were going to get an ancient ship, its not like it would make a difference anyway, if the ancients cant win with their own ships its unlikely that they would turn the tide for us.

The only thing I disliked about the episode is that it was another ep that made me confused as to why the ancients lost the war, till now I liked to think of them as naive and that it was their pacifist attitude that lost them the war rather than their technology. With what we know of the state of affairs in the Pegasus galaxy the ancients should have been able to deal with the wraith with little problem in my opinion. Its inconceivable to me that a race who evolved from seeded life on 1 planet could advance to the stage of taking down the ancients who seeded life in the entire galaxy and continued to live at the peak of their civilisation while the Wraith were still exploring their own planet (or the humans that the wraith bug fed on).

Osiris-RA
September 21st, 2005, 09:47 AM
In the thread for that ep, it was constantly likened to The Matrix. Ahahaha, the day SGA - or SG1 for that matter - is like The Matrix, i'll have seen my first flying pig! :D

Of course the SG team in black and leather with cells and leaping across buildings would be pretty cool...for Carter of course, she'd have a choice of a Blue or Red One (Yellow Ones? ahem? :D ) :p

*gasp* an idea for a photomanip! Tee hee!

FeloniousMonk
September 21st, 2005, 10:55 AM
:confused: how have y'all seen it already?

I found it on usenet and I'm downloading it now...I'm guessing they already aired it in the UK. Ah well, it'll free up this friday night if I watch it now. :D

Steve_the_Wraith
September 21st, 2005, 11:33 AM
:confused: how have y'all seen it already?

I found it on usenet and I'm downloading it now...I'm guessing they already aired it in the UK. Ah well, it'll free up this friday night if I watch it now. :D
It aired in Canada, Siege 3 isn't on over here until next month

About Aurora, I never expected them to get the ship, a fuctioning ancient warship in season 2? Imagine if SG-1 got a ship that early, there wouldn't have been the X-302s or the Prometheus or Daedalus. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture. For me the question was how big a bang there would be when the ship was destroyed

That said I think TPTB might have made alot of people online upset with the episode, they were so tightlipped about it, now it seems that there wasn't much to tell, it was a stand alone to break up the retrovirus storyline and mid season 2 parter, a self contained episode. But before the episode it looked like they were being mysterious.

But to be fair they never hyped it, someone made an off hand comment about ancients and a ship. Then the fandom took this information and ran with it - but come on as an episode it was never intended to overshadow the big mid season 2 parter

TOA
September 21st, 2005, 11:35 AM
:confused: how have y'all seen it already?

I found it on usenet and I'm downloading it now...I'm guessing they already aired it in the UK. Ah well, it'll free up this friday night if I watch it now. :D


It aired in Canada on TMN on Monday night.

TOA
September 21st, 2005, 11:42 AM
If the Wraith didn't know where the ship was then who attacked the ship? The ship was damaged so probably it has fought the Wraith.

But one of my theories is that there was never any information about a Wraith weakness on the Aurora. The Wraith was on a mission to acquire the intergalactic hyperdrive technology and I believe the Wraith were manipulating the system to make everyone believe the Aurora was on a mission to deliver a message to Atlantis. For an advanced race like then Ancients it doesn't really make sense to send such an important message with a slow ship.

You forget that the Ancient database on atlantis mentioned that the Aurora was on a recon mission. Which could very well be a gather and return delivery mission.

What I find strange is that no one on the ship actually knew what the data was, yet they would trust computer systems to store data event the captain wasnt privy to. Even further is the fact that the wraith were able to delete the data without an issue.

While I really liked the episode - its so full of plot holes and stupid mistakes that it really effects my enjoyment. My top 5 dumb things are:
1) Why wouldnt they pull the pods out of aurora and worry about restoring the Ancients later. I mean who would create a system to sustain life but make it so you couldnt move it. What if the ship blew up -what the ancients would jump out of the air locks?
2) Why would the Ancients trust a computer thats easy to hack with crucial info
3) Why would they use the slower ship to transport said data.
4) How could the captain not even know what hes carrying, yet trust something so critical to a computer
5) Why would the wraith not destroy the ship years ago, since they obviously knew it was there.

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 12:01 PM
can i just say how much i hate this episode:

i am a ship man, i love them, its the best part of stargate for me, and this ship crushed everything i know about the ancients in to tiny little piece of dust!
TPTB shouldnt of spent 9 years building the ancients up as a superrace and then give us that! its pathetic!
ive always said aurora was goign to make or break atlantis season 2, and frankly theyve broken it for me, the ancients will never be the same again.
:@

Merlin7
September 21st, 2005, 12:02 PM
I loved the ep. My expectations towards anything really ANCIENT related for Atlantis was non existant, so I enjoyed this ep for what it was. Great team ep. Great lines. The McShep friendship was back in full force. Joe and DH were spot on.

Lots of Shep, which always makes me happy. He is the man of a gazillion faces.

I loved the lighting in the ep. The Ancient uniforms made me giggle. **Bad wardrobe people**

I squeed alot over how gorgeous Shep/Joe was. I laughed over the McShep. I adored Joe for being so dang good. I laughed over Teyla and Ronon stuff and the Ronon and weir opening was great.

I hope we finally do get more info about the Ancients and Atlantis before the season is out, but we still have 11 eps to go so I'm prepared to keep my expectations low and, hopefully, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 12:04 PM
You forget that the Ancient database on atlantis mentioned that the Aurora was on a recon mission. Which could very well be a gather and return delivery mission.

What I find strange is that no one on the ship actually knew what the data was, yet they would trust computer systems to store data event the captain wasnt privy to. Even further is the fact that the wraith were able to delete the data without an issue.

While I really liked the episode - its so full of plot holes and stupid mistakes that it really effects my enjoyment. My top 5 dumb things are:
1) Why wouldnt they pull the pods out of aurora and worry about restoring the Ancients later. I mean who would create a system to sustain life but make it so you couldnt move it. What if the ship blew up -what the ancients would jump out of the air locks?
2) Why would the Ancients trust a computer thats easy to hack with crucial info
3) Why would they use the slower ship to transport said data.
4) How could the captain not even know what hes carrying, yet trust something so critical to a computer
5) Why would the wraith not destroy the ship years ago, since they obviously knew it was there.
ill add to that
6)why didnt the ancinets know they put themselves in hibernation, its there ship!
7)why dont they send the info via subspace
8)why didnt the deady just tow the aurora in hyperspace back to atlantis
9) if mackay can alter the enviroment why not just make a copy of all the minds in the system and everything in the envrioemtn and study it later
10)why did it still have power when it looked form the outside like space junk ( like the stuff around the earth after TLC)

Hatcheter
September 21st, 2005, 12:52 PM
It was obvious we werent going to keep the ship

Its the oldest scifi cliche in the book

Which cliche? Finding something nifty, but being unable to keep it, or finding something nifty, and making it the central tennant of the show (i.e., Atlantis itself)? ;)


But to be fair they never hyped it, someone made an off hand comment about ancients and a ship. Then the fandom took this information and ran with it - but come on as an episode it was never intended to overshadow the big mid season 2 parter

Meanwhile, for the other two million fans who don't frequent spoiler sites, it will just be a stand alone episode where they learn a little more about the Ancients and their war with the Wraith.

immhotep
September 21st, 2005, 12:58 PM
except for me any show that mentions ancients and ship mean it should be nothing, nothing short of the best episode in the season, ships for me make stargate and doing the greatest race's ships in that manner is pathetic, if they do ancinets or orii warships in such a manner i will never watch the show again believe me.

ToasterOnFire
September 21st, 2005, 01:14 PM
In the thread for that ep, it was constantly likened to The Matrix. Ahahaha, the day SGA - or SG1 for that matter - is like The Matrix, i'll have seen my first flying pig! :D
...have you seen "Prototype"? :D

tfalls1
September 21st, 2005, 01:20 PM
I agree the episode was really bad from a continuity standpoint..
SPOILERS
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1. In SG1 "FROZEN" THEY ESTABLISH THAT THE ANCIENTS PHYSIOLOGY DOES NOT DIE OUT IN COLD AND SHE HAS NOT EVEN AGED SO WHY IN AN ANCIENT'S STASIS POD DO THE ANCIENTS GET SO OLD? AGAIN IN SG1 THE ANCIENTS, BY THE TIME THEY WERE UNDER SEIGE AND AURORA DEPARTED. SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN SOMETHAT ADVANCED HUMAN FORM AND SHOULD HAVE SOME TELEPATHIC POWERS, ESP, AND ADVANCED HEALTH. SO WHY DO THEY NEED "RAY GUNS" AND GET SO OLD SO QUICKLY. (10,000 YRS SHOULD NOT BE THAT LONG CONSIDERING IN FROZEN SHE WAS MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD).
2. WHY DO THE AURORA SECURITY GUARDS SEEM CLUELESS... ARE THEY NOT AS SMART AS THE OTHER LANTEANS (ALTERIANS). AND WHY SO MANY PUSH BUTTONS FOR CONTROLS WHEN 4 MILLION YEARS BEFORE AS THEY LEFT EARTH'S OUTPOST THEY HAD ALREADY DEVELOPED THE THOUGHT CONTROL CHAIR WITH NO NEED FOR SILLY STAR TREK CONSOLES.

3. OVERALL I FEEL THE TECHNOLOGY AND ABILITIES OF THE ANCIENTS IN STARGATE ATLANTIS HAVE BEEN DRASTICALLY "DUMBED DOWN" COMPAIRED TO HOW THE ANCIENTS WERE PORTRAYED IN SG1 SEASONS 1-8. I JUST FEEL LIKE TPTB ARE NO LONGER PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS

FeloniousMonk
September 21st, 2005, 01:22 PM
It aired in Canada on TMN on Monday night.
yeah, I grabbed it off newsgroups and just finished watching it :cool:



had little to do at work today..

Steve_the_Wraith
September 21st, 2005, 01:27 PM
I agree the episode was really bad from a continuity standpoint..
SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
1. In SG1 "FROZEN" THEY ESTABLISH THAT THE ANCIENTS PHYSIOLOGY DOES NOT DIE OUT IN COLD AND SHE HAS NOT EVEN AGED SO WHY IN AN ANCIENT'S STASIS POD DO THE ANCIENTS GET SO OLD? AGAIN IN SG1 THE ANCIENTS, BY THE TIME THEY WERE UNDER SEIGE AND AURORA DEPARTED. SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN SOMETHAT ADVANCED HUMAN FORM AND SHOULD HAVE SOME TELEPATHIC POWERS, ESP, AND ADVANCED HEALTH. SO WHY DO THEY NEED "RAY GUNS" AND GET SO OLD SO QUICKLY. (10,000 YRS SHOULD NOT BE THAT LONG CONSIDERING IN FROZEN SHE WAS MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD).
2. WHY DO THE AURORA SECURITY GUARDS SEEM CLUELESS... ARE THEY NOT AS SMART AS THE OTHER LANTEANS (ALTERIANS). AND WHY SO MANY PUSH BUTTONS FOR CONTROLS WHEN 4 MILLION YEARS BEFORE AS THEY LEFT EARTH'S OUTPOST THEY HAD ALREADY DEVELOPED THE THOUGHT CONTROL CHAIR WITH NO NEED FOR SILLY STAR TREK CONSOLES.

3. OVERALL I FEEL THE TECHNOLOGY AND ABILITIES OF THE ANCIENTS IN STARGATE ATLANTIS HAVE BEEN DRASTICALLY "DUMBED DOWN" COMPAIRED TO HOW THE ANCIENTS WERE PORTRAYED IN SG1 SEASONS 1-8. I JUST FEEL LIKE TPTB ARE NO LONGER PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS
So many caps... my eyes hurt

tfalls1
September 21st, 2005, 01:42 PM
So many caps... my eyes hurt
SORRY BLAME APPLE FOR THE INTERMITTANT STICKING CAPLOCK KEY :)

Jeffer
September 21st, 2005, 03:06 PM
I liked the ep I personally think it would have been worse if they got out there towed it back to Atlantis and did a bunch of stuff with it that would have made for a awful ep there would have been no conflict and no good story line but the ONLY reason the blow the ship up was to stop the Wraith from getting it and turning there Hyper drive into and intergalactic hyper drive and getting to earth and also if the Deady stayed to fight then the Wraith would have known they weren't dead and would have went for Atlantis

yes we didn't learn much but really how much do we learn in one ep ever its over all the eps we learn most of the stuff and you can never judged a season till its over

Jeffer
September 21st, 2005, 03:28 PM
ill add to that
6)why didnt the ancinets know they put themselves in hibernation, its there ship!
I can answer this one anyways because the Wraith altered to make it so they didn't know

freyr's mother
September 21st, 2005, 03:28 PM
Man im like a frakin psychic arent i. I totally predicted aurora would be a letdown, even though i havent seen it yet. Can anyone find the thread i started a while back about aurora possibly being a dissapointment?

Dr Weir
September 21st, 2005, 03:42 PM
You need to chill Immhotep. Just because the ep didn't go the way you wanted it to go doesn't make it a bad ep. I thought it was 1 of the best eps this season, but if you didn't like it that's your opinion, but think about it like this: wouldn't it just be too easy and boring if Alantis got to keep the ship and went home. All their probs would be solved and that would be the end of sga. :( Having the wraith onboard as far as I'm concerned made it far more exicting and involved alot more action than it not being there, after all it is the enemy in sga but it sounds like you really don't like them which is a huge part of the sga series. Also the ep made wraith seem more dangerous and cleverer than they did before, they arn't as easy to beat or trick as I thought before. The idea they came up with for getting the info from the ancients was a good 1, but I did find it odd that the wraith took the place of a woman. It was probably because of her rank.

freyr's mother
September 21st, 2005, 04:07 PM
Whoever has seen aurora might know the answer to this. Did the aurora have any defensive weapons even though i heard it was a Science Vessel? I don't know where i heard this but was the ship beaten up? If it was, why would the ancients send a science vessel into battle without any defensive or offensive weapons? In the VR Room when they pick up the ship, do they get any signals from other ships?

Dr Weir
September 21st, 2005, 04:11 PM
It was on a recon mission which meant the ancients were looking for weaknesses in wraith technology which they found. Even through it wasn't said in the ep in the gateworld ep guide it says it was a warship and McKay said in the ep that there were no drones left.

Wraith_Hunter
September 21st, 2005, 05:03 PM
1) Why wouldnt they pull the pods out of aurora and worry about restoring the Ancients later. I mean who would create a system to sustain life but make it so you couldnt move it. What if the ship blew up -what the ancients would jump out of the air locks?
2) Why would the Ancients trust a computer thats easy to hack with crucial info
3) Why would they use the slower ship to transport said data.
4) How could the captain not even know what hes carrying, yet trust something so critical to a computer
5) Why would the wraith not destroy the ship years ago, since they obviously knew it was there.
6)why didnt the ancinets know they put themselves in hibernation, its there ship!
7)why dont they send the info via subspace
8)why didnt the deady just tow the aurora in hyperspace back to atlantis
9) if mackay can alter the enviroment why not just make a copy of all the minds in the system and everything in the envrioemtn and study it later
10)why did it still have power when it looked form the outside like space junk ( like the stuff around the earth after TLC)

1. They couldn't take the ones out that they checked because the physical bodies were too degraded to re-support life again. So if they done it, then they would have been killed instantly or very very shortly after being re-awoken. It's possible with more time that they might have managed to wake up some of the younger member of the crew but they didn't have time to go through hundreds of pods on several decks.

2. The computer wasn't easy to hack, it only became easy in the VR world. Originally in real life Wraith don't have the gene & so would have been locked out of all important areas of the ship.

3. It depends on what there speed was, Just because it wasn't intergalactic doesn't mean that it didn't zip about Pegasus like the Flash while it was still fully functional.

4. He explained that in the episode, it was too important & would have been far safer in the computers, where if anything happened then there would have been a far better chance of recovery. Again the computers were only easy in the VR world that the Wraith had modified to suit it's own ends.

5. Probably the same reason they didn't take out the weapons sat or send more troops to the planet in 'Trinity.' They didn't see it as a threat. They might have realised about trying to gain the knowledge of the advanced ancient tech which it contained, but because they were Wraith then the security measures probably kicked in & stopped them from gaining access to it. Then when the ZPM was plugged back in, it began broadcasting & powered up again & they then they could try & get into the systems somehow.

6. They probably did initially but the Wraith re-wrote the program to it's own ends & that also would have meant erasing certain parts of their memories.

7. They were on the other side of the galaxy with no local gates to help make it more secure. So because of the nature of the info & the distance that the message would have had to travel then it would have been too risky.

8. It isn't an Asgard ship & so wouldn't have anything like the pulling power of one. The Aurora seemed pretty big to me & so I don't think they had the power to tug it anywhere. Also there wasn't enough time beforem they were alerted to the Cruisers being on the way.

9. Making a few changes to a computer program is simple in terms of breaking into peroples minds & storing their consciousnesses into a few hard drives. There is no way they are advanced enough to do such a task.

10. It had power constantly onto the stasis pods, the main power would have been damaged during the battle like the weapons sat platform, yet I'm sure that a few bypasses would have been enough to get a few basic systems back online for a brief period.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 21st, 2005, 07:09 PM
maybe the ship had drones or some other sort of weapons, and McKay Could detect them

Calicto
September 21st, 2005, 07:40 PM
So, this happens to the be the Aurora of Greek Mythology.

I expected AMAZING warship, not science ship.

However, something that was referenced to bring Dawn out and therefore the sun relates to knowledge. The sun has been the archetype of knowledge and the rising sun is a symbol of increasing knowledge or science. Therefore, Aurora brings out the sun and therefore knowledge = science.

TOA
September 21st, 2005, 07:45 PM
1. They couldn't take the ones out that they checked because the physical bodies were too degraded to re-support life again. So if they done it, then they would have been killed instantly or very very shortly after being re-awoken. It's possible with more time that they might have managed to wake up some of the younger member of the crew but they didn't have time to go through hundreds of pods on several decks.

I was actually referring to grabbing the pods and ancients - so the ancients stay in statis for the time being but they could be revived later. Possibly using cloned bodies with the help of the Asgard.


2. The computer wasn't easy to hack, it only became easy in the VR world. Originally in real life Wraith don't have the gene & so would have been locked out of all important areas of the ship.

That said the fact that both Rodney and the Wraith could hack into the VR world simply screams insecure system.


3. It depends on what there speed was, Just because it wasn't intergalactic doesn't mean that it didn't zip about Pegasus like the Flash while it was still fully functional.

The captain mentioned that it would take months (maybe two months) to travel to atlantis. This means that Aurora was slower than Promethues, and FAR slower than daedaleus.


4. He explained that in the episode, it was too important & would have been far safer in the computers, where if anything happened then there would have been a far better chance of recovery. Again the computers were only easy in the VR world that the Wraith had modified to suit it's own ends.

Maybe. But still really really bad idea - especially considering that the VR system would open a loop hole for hackers.


5. Probably the same reason they didn't take out the weapons sat or send more troops to the planet in 'Trinity.' They didn't see it as a threat. They might have realised about trying to gain the knowledge of the advanced ancient tech which it contained, but because they were Wraith then the security measures probably kicked in & stopped them from gaining access to it. Then when the ZPM was plugged back in, it began broadcasting & powered up again & they then they could try & get into the systems somehow.

Maybe :)


6. They probably did initially but the Wraith re-wrote the program to it's own ends & that also would have meant erasing certain parts of their memories.

I guess this is one of those - they're supposed to know better type issues.


7. They were on the other side of the galaxy with no local gates to help make it more secure. So because of the nature of the info & the distance that the message would have had to travel then it would have been too risky.

I wouldnt argue with that. It still seems that the ancients we're terribly ignorant of potential issues not to mention terrible tacticians.


8. It isn't an Asgard ship & so wouldn't have anything like the pulling power of one. The Aurora seemed pretty big to me & so I don't think they had the power to tug it anywhere. Also there wasn't enough time beforem they were alerted to the Cruisers being on the way.

I agree, Im not so sure Deaduleus even has a tractor beam or tow line capable of moving something 2x its size. Aurora is one big ship.



9. Making a few changes to a computer program is simple in terms of breaking into peroples minds & storing their consciousnesses into a few hard drives. There is no way they are advanced enough to do such a task.

Considering that all the replicators combined we're incapable of storing the information in Daniel Jackson alone and the fact that ancients we're nearing the requirements for ascension its likely no-one could readily store that much information.


10. It had power constantly onto the stasis pods, the main power would have been damaged during the battle like the weapons sat platform, yet I'm sure that a few bypasses would have been enough to get a few basic systems back online for a brief period.


I was pretty shocked that they we're able to restore life support considering the condition of the bridge. I mean that was in just NASTY shape. It had been gutted.

Ouroboros
September 21st, 2005, 07:46 PM
It was never really made clear exactly what type of ship it was but it was so mashed up when they found it it probably wouldn't have made much difference in terms of trying to use any weapons it might have had.

bbal4163
September 21st, 2005, 08:23 PM
little bit of information gained on anchient tech

"months to return to atlantis"

-the ship was on the outer rim of the pegasis galaxy.

daedalus could get to the pegasis galaxy in 2 weeks without the ZPM. 4 days from earth of atlantis using ZPM.

"intelligence within days" using the most advanced hyperdrives the anchients have. our hyperdrives can pull that off easily.

Ouroboros
September 21st, 2005, 09:06 PM
While I actually enjoyed the episode in it's ownright I'll agree that it does raise some rather troubling questions about how exactly the Wraith ever managed to beat the Ancients.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread the best explanation used to be "the Ancients didn't have a real military/they were space hippies" but that explanation was completely destroyed by the Ancient ship here which looks more militarily professional than any Wraith one we've ever seen and it's supposed to be more advanced to boot.

The only explanation seems to be that the Wraith have gone into some sort of technological decline since the war and are way wussier now than they were back then.

I also didn't like the hinting that there was going to be some sort of contrived magical "overall weakness" in all Wraith technology that would lead to their utter defeat once exploited "independance day" style. I wanted to hug that Wraith guy once it was revealed that he'd destroyed the information that would enable this wagon of depraved idiocy to get rolling.

Thank you Wraith guy with no name number 1993948. You're my hero of the day.

Erised
September 22nd, 2005, 03:55 AM
Can someomne tell me HOW in the world could you guys already have seen it??? :eek:

Scoobing
September 22nd, 2005, 03:57 AM
It already aired in Canada.

Erised
September 22nd, 2005, 03:59 AM
:eek: I thought the U.S. got episodes first

Wraith_Hunter
September 22nd, 2005, 04:07 AM
While I actually enjoyed the episode in it's ownright I'll agree that it does raise some rather troubling questions about how exactly the Wraith ever managed to beat the Ancients.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread the best explanation used to be "the Ancients didn't have a real military/they were space hippies" but that explanation was completely destroyed by the Ancient ship here which looks more militarily professional than any Wraith one we've ever seen and it's supposed to be more advanced to boot.

The only explanation seems to be that the Wraith have gone into some sort of technological decline since the war and are way wussier now than they were back then.

You have to think about when the war actually started. This would have been the first real conflict that the Ancients would have faced for millions of years.

So they were obviously a good bit rusty. When Aurora was sent out Atlantis had already been under siege. That means that they had already been fighting for over 100 years. All this experience stood them in good sted, but unfortunately it was too late by that time.

Wraith_Hunter
September 22nd, 2005, 04:14 AM
Yes it was, It was stated that it was a Warship at the beginning of the ep. Also Joe Mallozzi said in his thread months ago that it was a Warship.

Stricken
September 22nd, 2005, 04:20 AM
We all have a right to our opinion on here, but did you have to post it here, theres a thread already for it called "Episode Discussion", sorry but i had to make some light hearted remark after all the negative thoughts in here.

Major Tyler
September 22nd, 2005, 04:22 AM
:eek: I thought the U.S. got episodes firstIt only happened this once because SciFi choose to air two SG-1's last week when they normally would have shown "Aurora."

dosed150
September 22nd, 2005, 04:26 AM
I agree the episode was really bad from a continuity standpoint..
SPOILERS
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1. In SG1 "FROZEN" THEY ESTABLISH THAT THE ANCIENTS PHYSIOLOGY DOES NOT DIE OUT IN COLD AND SHE HAS NOT EVEN AGED SO WHY IN AN ANCIENT'S STASIS POD DO THE ANCIENTS GET SO OLD? AGAIN IN SG1 THE ANCIENTS, BY THE TIME THEY WERE UNDER SEIGE AND AURORA DEPARTED. SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN SOMETHAT ADVANCED HUMAN FORM AND SHOULD HAVE SOME TELEPATHIC POWERS, ESP, AND ADVANCED HEALTH. SO WHY DO THEY NEED "RAY GUNS" AND GET SO OLD SO QUICKLY. (10,000 YRS SHOULD NOT BE THAT LONG CONSIDERING IN FROZEN SHE WAS MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD).
2. WHY DO THE AURORA SECURITY GUARDS SEEM CLUELESS... ARE THEY NOT AS SMART AS THE OTHER LANTEANS (ALTERIANS). AND WHY SO MANY PUSH BUTTONS FOR CONTROLS WHEN 4 MILLION YEARS BEFORE AS THEY LEFT EARTH'S OUTPOST THEY HAD ALREADY DEVELOPED THE THOUGHT CONTROL CHAIR WITH NO NEED FOR SILLY STAR TREK CONSOLES.

3. OVERALL I FEEL THE TECHNOLOGY AND ABILITIES OF THE ANCIENTS IN STARGATE ATLANTIS HAVE BEEN DRASTICALLY "DUMBED DOWN" COMPAIRED TO HOW THE ANCIENTS WERE PORTRAYED IN SG1 SEASONS 1-8. I JUST FEEL LIKE TPTB ARE NO LONGER PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS

it wasnt the cold the statis slows the heartbeat but the body continues to age but very slowly advanced humans neednt look any different and even with telepathy u still need hand weapons i really enjoyed this episode stop moaning just for the sake of it

Tok'Ra Hostess
September 22nd, 2005, 04:52 AM
Just saw the ep last nite. Good story.

But, boy! Did Atlantis luck out or what? :eek: They are going to have to investigate every blip that shows up on their new long range sensors. The Wraith will have certainly learned from this last failure.

So, 10,000 years ago the Lanteans discovered a fatal flaw in Wraith tech. Are we to believe that same flaw still exists today? :S Personally I wish they hadn't gone that route. It makes zero sense, to me. It's like having some caveman from 10,000 years ago saved out of an iceburg to tell us that there is a fatal flaw in our mastadon hunting methods. :S

To quote a famous response often uttered by characters in those ludicrously implausible SF B-movies, "Oh well...." <shrug> :p

I quite enjoyed Teyla again. I love how she handled MacKay - talk about laugh! That was priceless! :p

I'm happy to see that Weir is still off balance with Dex. That's cute and it helps highlight that not everyone thinks in the same way and the misunderstandings that can arise from that. There's good potential to see this sort of misunderstanding happen on a bigger, more dramatic scale: Weir gives a direct order and Dex obediently does the exact opposite, simply because he understands the wording differently.

Had the crew of the Aurora been concious the entire 10,000 years or did the Wraith awaken them?

No doubt this and many other questions will be answered for me as I read through everybody's posts. ")

dosed150
September 22nd, 2005, 04:59 AM
Just saw the ep last nite. Good story.

But, boy! Did Atlantis luck out or what? :eek: They are going to have to investigate every blip that shows up on their new long range sensors. The Wraith will have certainly learned from this last failure.

So, 10,000 years ago the Lanteans discovered a fatal flaw in Wraith tech. Are we to believe that same flaw still exists today? :S Personally I wish they hadn't gone that route. It makes zero sense, to me. It's like having some caveman from 10,000 years ago saved out of an iceburg to tell us that there is a fatal flaw in our mastadon hunting methods. :S

To quote a famous response often uttered by characters in those ludicrously implausible SF B-movies, "Oh well...." <shrug> :p

I quite enjoyed Teyla again. I love how she handled MacKay - talk about laugh! That was priceless! :p

I'm happy to see that Weir is still off balance with Dex. That's cute and it helps highlight that not everyone thinks in the same way and the misunderstandings that can arise from that. There's good potential to see this sort of misunderstanding happen on a bigger, more dramatic scale: Weir gives a direct order and Dex obediently does the exact opposite, simply because he understands the wording differently.

Had the crew of the Aurora been concious the entire 10,000 years or did the Wraith awaken them?

No doubt this and many other questions will be answered for me as I read through everybody's posts. ")


but the wraith may never have found out about the weakness so if they didnt now then how could they compensate for it and u hav to remekmber theyve been in hibernation much of that time

Tok'Ra Hostess
September 22nd, 2005, 05:56 AM
Hm..., this is my least favourite episode this season!

We could have learned so much about the ancients, but after this eps, I really can't imagine them to be the great builders of the Stargate. They were really too weak!


That's because we tend to pack all of the knowledge of everyone in a species into one person. I am human, from Earth. My planet uses air travel extensively, but don't ask me how to build a heavier-than-air flying craft. Don't ask me what any of the gauges in the cockpit do, because I haven't a clue.

So, too, with the crew of the Aurora; it is quite likely that not one of them personally know how to build a Stargate, but there were enough techies on board to adapt one sort of hyperdrive to do the work of another sort. That is purty derned smart, there, IMO. :D

iLemon
September 22nd, 2005, 06:25 AM
except for me any show that mentions ancients and ship mean it should be nothing, nothing short of the best episode in the season, ships for me make stargate and doing the greatest race's ships in that manner is pathetic, if they do ancinets or orii warships in such a manner i will never watch the show again believe me.
You need to understand immhotep that not all of us fans watch Stargate for the ships, some of us watch it for science, tecnology, Ancients, etc.
And besides, that ship wouldnt have given us much headway to defeating the Wraith considering it was slow and had old hyperdrives.

James_the_Wraith_Sympathiser
September 22nd, 2005, 06:37 AM
Let me tell you, that as a person who is a relatively new fan to Stargate (been an Atlantis fan since its inception and SG1 since around the same time, mid 2004 ish), it's really sad to see so many people get on here and whinge about what is actually a really cool episode.

After I catch up on many SG-1 eps that I haven't seen, I hope I am not as complacent, arrogant and downright selfish towards the show(s) as some of you are. I'm reminded of what Bart says to Comic Book Guy in the "Poochie" episode of the Simpsons (not an exact quote) - "They've given you hours of entertainment for free and all you do is complain?".

Yes I know you've all bought the DVDs so it's not exactly "free", but hell, you're even talking about downloading it (which I thought was not supposed to happen on these forums) and you have the audacity to complain. Let me tell you, despite the $$ you have paid for the DVDs and such, the Stargate producers/writers/actors don't OWE you anything. They are trying to make a show and I think they are doing a great job.

Anyway, after all that - I really thought it was a good episode. I acknowledge the fact mentioned above that there may be some continuity errors, but damn, it's probably very hard to write TV scripts for a living and remember every exact detail. The interior of the Aurora looked really cool, very similar to the feel of Atlantis. I wonder if they're trying to subtly tell us something by the use of so much white? or whether that was merely to point out how magnificent their technology was while they were alive in contrast to the dark and derelict state it is in when Sheppard et al find it.

Anyway....enough of that...looking forward to summer finale this week!

Darkdreams
September 22nd, 2005, 07:59 AM
I dont see what the big deal is, I dont think anyone was under the impression we were going to get an ancient ship, its not like it would make a difference anyway, if the ancients cant win with their own ships its unlikely that they would turn the tide for us.

The only thing I disliked about the episode is that it was another ep that made me confused as to why the ancients lost the war, till now I liked to think of them as naive and that it was their pacifist attitude that lost them the war rather than their technology. With what we know of the state of affairs in the Pegasus galaxy the ancients should have been able to deal with the wraith with little problem in my opinion. Its inconceivable to me that a race who evolved from seeded life on 1 planet could advance to the stage of taking down the ancients who seeded life in the entire galaxy and continued to live at the peak of their civilisation while the Wraith were still exploring their own planet (or the humans that the wraith bug fed on).


No fair, no fair how you all get to see it why I have to wait till tomorrow, heh heh come on guy ok think about it when in Stargate SG! did SG! get to actually keep a ship that they did not build themselves? heh heh its no biggie im sure there will be another one somewhere...

Darkdreams
September 22nd, 2005, 08:03 AM
Let me tell you, that as a person who is a relatively new fan to Stargate (been an Atlantis fan since its inception and SG1 since around the same time, mid 2004 ish), it's really sad to see so many people get on here and whinge about what is actually a really cool episode.

After I catch up on many SG-1 eps that I haven't seen, I hope I am not as complacent, arrogant and downright selfish towards the show(s) as some of you are. I'm reminded of what Bart says to Comic Book Guy in the "Poochie" episode of the Simpsons (not an exact quote) - "They've given you hours of entertainment for free and all you do is complain?".

Yes I know you've all bought the DVDs so it's not exactly "free", but hell, you're even talking about downloading it (which I thought was not supposed to happen on these forums) and you have the audacity to complain. Let me tell you, despite the $$ you have paid for the DVDs and such, the Stargate producers/writers/actors don't OWE you anything. They are trying to make a show and I think they are doing a great job.

Anyway, after all that - I really thought it was a good episode. I acknowledge the fact mentioned above that there may be some continuity errors, but damn, it's probably very hard to write TV scripts for a living and remember every exact detail. The interior of the Aurora looked really cool, very similar to the feel of Atlantis. I wonder if they're trying to subtly tell us something by the use of so much white? or whether that was merely to point out how magnificent their technology was while they were alive in contrast to the dark and derelict state it is in when Sheppard et al find it.

Anyway....enough of that...looking forward to summer finale this week!

Right on I agree, I only have series 4,5,6,7 but I love them all sure there are some episodes I dont care about but I love it all the same. I love every episode of Stargate SG! and atlantis well except letters i didnt care for that but hell, I look foward to every friday to see new episodes, the only thing I am pissed about is that the series ends and the continued heh heh but thats just cause I am impatient. Its a show people if you didnt like it you wouldnt watch it, there will be episoded you hate that others love it happens we all have our tastes I say horray for the writers for making something that I look fwd to seeing every friday.

macktheknife
September 22nd, 2005, 08:36 AM
Ancients obviously did'nt have a firewall.

Xoph0x
September 22nd, 2005, 10:42 AM
So, 10,000 years ago the Lanteans discovered a fatal flaw in Wraith tech. Are we to believe that same flaw still exists today?

... only if they use micro$oft tech :D

immhotep
September 22nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
You need to understand immhotep that not all of us fans watch Stargate for the ships, some of us watch it for science, tecnology, Ancients, etc.
And besides, that ship wouldnt have given us much headway to defeating the Wraith considering it was slow and had old hyperdrives.
this is i watch stargate for the mto beat the enemy, not for the most powerfull race ever to get their buts whooped by a bunch of telepathic space vamps! Daniel is proclaiming that the ancients are the best in SG1 and at the same time mckay is calling them dumb for losing a war they should of never of let begin!
TPTB need to set some guideline on the races, that is continuous accross both shows, in SG1 if 12 GMS's came to earth at least one AMS would come to save them. in SGA if 12 WHS come to destroy the most important centre of knowledge in the universe they send one asgard on second hand ship( the daedy is cool but the oniels could basicly wipe the wraith out in a month, in an all out attack)...

Steve_the_Wraith
September 22nd, 2005, 11:51 AM
In a one on one senario an O'Niell/Daniel Jackson Class ship could beat a Wraith Hive ship - but there aren't enough of those ships in existence (According to the TPTB).

The entire Asgard fleet consists of a couple of O'Niells and more less advanced ships - and for the time being the Asgard aren't building anymore. As of New Order they only hold one planet in another galaxy, and even that world came under recent heavy Replicator attack - they simply don't have the resources to destroy the Wraith

BTW the Daedalus was sent to fight the 3 Hive ships the others turned up later

Dimeron
September 22nd, 2005, 02:27 PM
little bit of information gained on anchient tech

"months to return to atlantis"

-the ship was on the outer rim of the pegasis galaxy.

daedalus could get to the pegasis galaxy in 2 weeks without the ZPM. 4 days from earth of atlantis using ZPM.

"intelligence within days" using the most advanced hyperdrives the anchients have. our hyperdrives can pull that off easily.

Huh, I thought daedalus can only make the trip with the ZPM (the intergalatic one)

Also, it is asgard's most advance hyperdrive, and they had 10 000 years more to work on it.

Metarock Sam
September 22nd, 2005, 02:30 PM
Just finished watching the episode (and I love the new opening btw). This ep is good as it showed the decisions the ancients had to make and the willingless to sacrifice themselves in order to save Atlantis.
Its a shame we didnt get to keep Aurora but then again it was in bad shape anyway.

Avenger
September 22nd, 2005, 05:12 PM
immhotep, I think you're guilty of creating false expectations in your own mind for what the episode was going to be about. I would find it far worse for the show if they had found a fully working Ancient warship that they could bring back to Atlantis. It would completely screw up the point of the show.

Ouroboros
September 22nd, 2005, 07:55 PM
Shep just suggested "A warship?" and then McKay started to rip on him about how he was drooling over the idea already.

freyr's mother
September 22nd, 2005, 08:46 PM
Stupid asgard..... If they had only given us offensive weapons we could have destroyed the two cruisers and towed Aurora back to atlantis.

Major Tyler
September 22nd, 2005, 09:58 PM
immhotep, I think you're guilty of creating false expectations in your own mind for what the episode was going to be about. I would find it far worse for the show if they had found a fully working Ancient warship that they could bring back to Atlantis. It would completely screw up the point of the show.Agreed on all counts.

HisDivineShadow
September 22nd, 2005, 10:36 PM
How can you say that Aurora sucked when the episode hasn't even come out yet?

-HDS

iLemon
September 22nd, 2005, 11:16 PM
^ Aurpra has come out, they aired it early in Canada

this is i watch stargate for the mto beat the enemy, not for the most powerfull race ever to get their buts whooped by a bunch of telepathic space vamps! Daniel is proclaiming that the ancients are the best in SG1 and at the same time mckay is calling them dumb for losing a war they should of never of let begin!
TPTB need to set some guideline on the races, that is continuous accross both shows, in SG1 if 12 GMS's came to earth at least one AMS would come to save them. in SGA if 12 WHS come to destroy the most important centre of knowledge in the universe they send one asgard on second hand ship( the daedy is cool but the oniels could basicly wipe the wraith out in a month, in an all out attack)...
The Ancients had their reasons for chickening out, they're not about war, they're about science. They didnt expect an enemy as powerful as the Wriath, thats why they left.
The Ancients aren't perfect, thats what makes the show real to me.

SmallTimePerson
September 23rd, 2005, 03:30 AM
guessing uve already seen the ep

Perriman33
September 23rd, 2005, 06:20 AM
I quite liked the episode-if anything it was a bit cliched-i.e. they found the ship and at that moment 2 wraith cruisers turn up....hmmm! They also find hundreds of live ancients but if they come out of the pods they die! Find an ancient ship but due to time limits and damage can't salvage or tow back to Atlantis! Find wraith weakness but find it's been wiped off computer and crew knows nothing! It's a shame because the story was well thought out, the main characters did a great job and we learned a bit about the war it just seemed a bit of a downer at the end. :(

immhotep
September 23rd, 2005, 07:23 AM
but for the last 8 years all daniel has said ( the so called ancient expert) is that they are perfect, they are the gate builders and short of being worshiped as a god they are gods!
and the wraith as a powerfull enemy HAHAHA, i would invite the orii to give it shot just to prove to you that the ancients are simply not worth the effort any more, the orii are the new superrace, good or bad...the ancient have been beaten down on every levl by the orii, and im welcoming their was with us, just so i can say, when we win ( which will happen because its SG1, that we are now better than the anicnets!)

dosed150
September 23rd, 2005, 07:55 AM
Stupid asgard..... If they had only given us offensive weapons we could have destroyed the two cruisers and towed Aurora back to atlantis.

daedulus cud hav taken them out but not b4 the cruisers radioed in and blew atlantis's cover

Metarock Sam
September 23rd, 2005, 11:01 AM
I think they should have just used a cloak or something I mean Asgard ships do have cloaks right? They could use it to hide the aurura and go for cover.

Franklyn Blaze
September 23rd, 2005, 12:30 PM
The most glaring plothole I can't get over is if McKay said that the lone wraith had been there for "a lot longer" why wasn't the ancient ship not guarded yet by hive ships? I've never heard of a scout ship in deep space without some mother ship nearby.

Oh and why the heck wasn't the ancient ship cloaked? If McKay can cloak Atlantis in a single episode surely the ancients could have figured out how to cloak their large ships over all those zillions of years they were flying around?
I mean if I had to put my crew into hibernation I would want to be cloaked while I was asleep, right? It's like someone going to sleep in a hornets nest FCOL!

Avenger
September 23rd, 2005, 01:03 PM
We've been hearing that the ancients are enlightened for sometime, yes, but how much ancient weaponry have we really found in the time that the SGC has been operating? Maybe there's a reason there aren't a lot of ancient weapons out there, mostly being that the were not a violent race of people. Everything we've seen indicates that their weapons were better suited for defensive purposes. Besides, Aurora was a single ship on a top secret mission. If it got jumped by a fleet of Wraith cruisers, it would get its butt kicked, especially if there was an element of suprise involved. For all we know, it beat the crap out of the Wraith ships that attacked it, but was severely damaged inthe process (since there were no Wraith debris around) and it was limping back to Atlantis.

EcL1pZ
September 23rd, 2005, 05:02 PM
Sad episode, I feel bad for them at the end, when the Captain gave his little talk :(

Wraith_Hunter
September 23rd, 2005, 05:07 PM
& you felt the need to open a new thread for that. That's why they have episode discussion threads open.

EcL1pZ
September 23rd, 2005, 05:12 PM
Yeah, guess I shouldn't have.. didn't see any post episodes threads so heh, it will be pushed out of the view soon, when no one replies :)

MarshAngel
September 23rd, 2005, 05:16 PM
Ok I just saw the episode and I haven't read all the previous posts so chances are I'll be repeating a few gripes.

Why the hell are the ancients so dumb? They seem dumber than the average human. For a bunch of people close to ascension they seem to be wondering around in a daze of confusion. Even given that they don't all have a database in their brain it's be established that they're working with more brain power than humans and should have been able to think clearly enough. It's no wonder the Wraith won. Bad bad characterization.

This has been happening for quite some time now but when the hell did McKay become the superman of brain power? I mean he's smart but this is ridiculous. Several dozen Ancient minds networked and he just happens to know what they're all doing and can pin point on his laptop which ones he wants to knock out and which door he wants to open? I find that far-fetched.

This is definitely my least favorite episode. Just too many unlikely scenarios, plotholes and most importantly after 50+ million years of evolution, the ancients are a HUGE letdown. Kudos to Teyla for being the most reasonable person of the lot.

gatewonderer114
September 23rd, 2005, 05:17 PM
I shall reply, but yeah, what the guy above said. Good episode though.

MarshAngel
September 23rd, 2005, 05:43 PM
Just went and read the previous posts. My theory as to why the Wraith didn't destroy the ship before is simply that they lost the battle. The Aurora took a lot of damage but ultimately did destroy all the wraith ships and as a last resort went into stasis when life support failed and the engines weren't going to be getting them anywhere soon.
Oddly enough that isn't the part of this episode I've had trouble accepting.

NakedJehutyV2
September 23rd, 2005, 05:56 PM
yeah it was a sad ep

i mean there must've been hundreds of alterrans on it. very very old

freyr's mother
September 23rd, 2005, 06:00 PM
The most glaring plothole I can't get over is if McKay said that the lone wraith had been there for "a lot longer" why wasn't the ancient ship not guarded yet by hive ships? I've never heard of a scout ship in deep space without some mother ship nearby.

Oh and why the heck wasn't the ancient ship cloaked? If McKay can cloak Atlantis in a single episode surely the ancients could have figured out how to cloak their large ships over all those zillions of years they were flying around?
I mean if I had to put my crew into hibernation I would want to be cloaked while I was asleep, right? It's like someone going to sleep in a hornets nest FCOL!

If the ancient ships have cloaking shields then, why the hell was aurora in poor condition. The wraith wouldn't have been able to see the ship.

knocknashee
September 23rd, 2005, 06:00 PM
IMHO, a great episode if you're all about the Sheppard Eye-Candy thing...

And as much as I am about Sheppard Eye-Candy, I also like a little substance...and unfortunately, this episode didn't have much in the way of that. The plot was fairly weak, especially after the build-up it got. I was just disappointed that more wasn't made of it I think...

It was great to see Rodney back to form though...and nice lighting...enhances Teh Pretty...

AGateFan
September 23rd, 2005, 06:12 PM
Liked Teyla, Ronan, Weir, Mckay, Sheppard Caldwell. The interactions were good.
Didn't like the depiction of the ancients so much (althought the captin looked familiar).
It was an ok episode, no where close to being as cool as prototype (SG-1s first show last week). I can see why they didnt want this ep going agains Threashold.

Not bad, Not great. Didnt learn much of value except that Weir and Ronan just are not on the same page (nor me since I thought Ronan would like Chess, nice strategy game... it could be his thing, like data on TNG... chess and prunejuice ;)). I didn think there was some good team stuff.

I will watch it again when Im not taking benadril and actually had a night of sleep and maybe I will like it more.... or see all the plot holes mentioned and hate it more.

I give this ep a B-

Mio
September 23rd, 2005, 06:14 PM
Aww. It had so much potential.....I mean, I loved seeing Ancients on their ship. It was how I imagined it would be, very bright, light, colors. But...We could have learned something! Come on! <sigh>

atlantis2184
September 23rd, 2005, 06:23 PM
I agree.
Overall I have been a little disppointed by the episodes (Aurora and Lost boys).
But the interaction between Mckay and Shep was GREAT!
There is not much Shep/ Weir scene tonight.
I think that Joe seems a little tired and there was not enough Shep in Lost boys! But he is really a great actor. His different facial expression was great.
I CAN'T WAIT to see the next episode!!!!!

prion
September 23rd, 2005, 06:23 PM
Great episode. Had fun with it, especially Rodney's "She's hot!" and Sheppard's response. Bwahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Bama
September 23rd, 2005, 06:24 PM
Peh.

First scene was the best. Elizabeth and Ronon were fun there.

After that, just not much going on with the story imo. Teyla had a cute scene and if you enjoy looking at Shep, he certainly was looking good here. Last scene was sort of nice but the ep lent little real gravity to it.

One of the weaker eps of the season.

SnoggingPicard
September 23rd, 2005, 06:32 PM
The storyline wasn't my favorite, but there were some really cute character moments in there -- the Ronon/Weir thing in the beginning was adorable! They really can't seem to figure each other out. Teyla got some really excellent moments to shine tonight -- "counting" with Ronon, reverse psychology with McKay, and bluffing technobabble to Caldwell. McKay was great as usual, and Sheppard got a few good points, notably when his eyes teared up after Aurora was destroyed. Not my favorite, but it had its strong points.

MasySyma
September 23rd, 2005, 06:41 PM
Apparently, I'm in the minority on this one. I loved Aurora and hated The Lost Boys.

We saw character growth on McKay's part, and the writers developed the wounded trust between McKay and Sheppard from the end of Trinity. Ronon and Teyla stalling for more time worked as well.

The episode had humor, action, and character development. Yes, I figured out the first officer was evil quickly, but overall, the episode worked.

Macilnar
September 23rd, 2005, 07:01 PM
Does any one have a descent pic of the Aurora? Not the inside, the outside.

ToasterOnFire
September 23rd, 2005, 07:12 PM
After reading all the early reviews I was worried that this ep would suck the big one. So I was pleasantly surprised to find the ep wasn't that bad. Granted, it did use the Cassandra cliche, the "discovering something new only to have to rush because the enemy is coming" cliche, the "having to destroy/lose advanced technology just as they found it" cliche, and probably other cliches that I'm missing. Still, the pod network was interesting, the wraith involvement and coersion was fascinating, and the end...well fell sort of flat. Ah well.

-Nice to see Rodney getting back to fine form after Trinity. The porch comment was hysterical. :D

-It's funny how much Aurora looks like...the hallways of Atlantis. Thank you, blue camera filter! :p

-And I couldn't get used to the uniforms. Looked like a big PJ party. :D

-When the team went onto Aurora for the first time there apparently wasn't any power. Why did they have gravity?

-Why didn't the wraith immediately leave the pod and hunt down the team when it realized that Shep was an outsider?

the fifth man
September 23rd, 2005, 07:18 PM
I thought this was a pretty decent episode. Not the best of the season by far, but not the worst either. Sad to see the team come away with nothing yet again, but look how long it took sg-1 to make any headway. They failed to retrieve any alien technologies for what seemed like forever before they finally made some progress.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2005, 07:22 PM
I had been led to believe this ep wouldn't be very good, so I was pleasantly surprised. There WERE a lot of logical hiccups that didn't sit too well with me, the largest being where Shep and McKay showed up in the simulation, but over-all I still enjoyed the story and sympathised enough with the crew's dilemma to feel sad over the ending.

I don't know whether the actress playing the captain's 2IC is to be commended or warned. She did a fabulous job... but as soon as I saw her I thought, "she's a wraith". And no, I hadn't read any spoilers. ;) I felt she had wraith-like traits, anyway, and while it's great that she was able to work that in, the revelation of a wraith being onboard and its identity came as an utter non-surprise.

And who's the hottie sitting next to Caldwell? Liked him. May have to add him to my list if he isn't just a random extra. And considering he had lines (even if it was just repeating what the computer was telling him, poor b***ard) I have a feeling we may see him again. :)

MarshAngel
September 23rd, 2005, 07:22 PM
-When the team went onto Aurora for the first time there apparently wasn't any power. Why did they have gravity?

That's the first thing I noticed as well. No life support, badly damaged ship but of course the gravity still works...as if there's anyone using it. Furthermore, how did the Wraith get by without life support. Why didn't he restore the life support when he got there? If there was no life suppot, how did he manage to set up his little device, alter the system, get into the pod without some kind of suit. Maybe they reallya re vampires and they don't breathe. :rolleyes:


-Why didn't the wraith immediately leave the pod and hunt down the team when it realized that Shep was an outsider?

Yes, why indeed. The only thing I can think of is she wanted to learn all she could from Sheppard before he realized what she/he was and he couldn't leave the system and maintain the VR deception.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
Almost forgot... that has to be some of the most brilliant dialogue Teyla has ever uttered! Go Carl!

I'm still not too keen on Teyla, but she's been shaping up fairly well this season and that whole bit with her and Ronon making up stuff to stall Caldwell... brilliant. :D She had good dialogue in general this time around. It was nice to see. Or hear, I suppose.

FoolishPleasure
September 23rd, 2005, 07:31 PM
Not my fav episode of the season - I found myself strangely detached from the whole thing.

Shep was awfully pretty to look at, but come on. .he walks into a room full of Ancients and first thing he does is get flirty with a pretty girl? He does think "above" the waist sometimes doesn't he? :rolleyes:

Knew immediately something was "off" with the "oh I'm so hot in my hip hugger belt" 1st officer right away, but originally I thought she was on a power trip to take the captain's seat. So she's a Wraith in disguise. For some reason that discovery wasn't as suspenseful as it should have been.

The toast to the crew of the Aurora? Well, I saw the Captain, a Wraith pretending to be the 1st officer, and a guard. I never had any connection to this crew so how could I have any feelings for what happened to them?

The uniforms - bah. Did Wardrobe raid the circus costume trunks? The big buttons have to GO!

Best scene - Teyla and Ronon making up excuses for why McKay wasn't around. That was worth the price of admission. More Ronon/Teyla scenes please. ;)

Shep'sSocks
September 23rd, 2005, 09:06 PM
Almost forgot... that has to be some of the most brilliant dialogue Teyla has ever uttered! Go Carl!

I'm still not too keen on Teyla, but she's been shaping up fairly well this season and that whole bit with her and Ronon making up stuff to stall Caldwell... brilliant. :D She had good dialogue in general this time around. It was nice to see. Or hear, I suppose.

I got the impression that she was just repeating what she'd heard the others say without really understanding it.

warmbeachbrat
September 23rd, 2005, 09:08 PM
This was my favorite Atlantis episode. I'm aware of the plot holes and disappointments others have expressed, but it was the character moments that just blew me away. I loved McKay, Teyla, and Caldwell in this episode. And I'm with ShadowMaat--need to see more of the hottie sitting nest to Caldwell.

Teyla's and Ronan's stalling was just great--I think that might have been my favorite part. And Teyla also displayed some great psychological manuevering with Rodney and with Caldwell. I've been worried about her this season--but she was in fine form tonight. And for once, I didn't mind Ronon--he did a great job backing Teyla up.

McKay and Sheppard's interaction was also very fun. They reminded me a little of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis at their best--and I don't mean that in a bad way (I know, I know--I'm dating myself).

It wasn't just the character moments, though. I thought the general idea of the episode was very interesting and I liked the look of it and how it played out. I thought that the team managed to work together very well to find out what was happening and to fly by the seat of their pants, so to speak, to get out of a tricky situation.

Anyway, like I said, my favorite episode of the season.

SnoggingPicard
September 23rd, 2005, 10:03 PM
Yeah, Ronon/Teyla scenes really made this episode. Those two characters have chemistry, and they really light up the screen when they're together. Not sure if I'm in on 'shipping for them (meh...), but their relationship is growing, and it's wonderful to watch.

smushybird
September 23rd, 2005, 10:29 PM
McKay and Sheppard's interaction was also very fun. They reminded me a little of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis at their best--and I don't mean that in a bad way (I know, I know--I'm dating myself).

Ha. :D Can't we stick with the Hope and Crosby comparison? It feels more apt. And Jerry Lewis always makes me cringe. :S

Samuel J. Tilden
September 23rd, 2005, 11:27 PM
Wow. This was an incredible episode. I consider myself an SG-1 fan first and foremost but this ep. blew away anything SG-1 has done in the past two and half years and is probably the best episode Atlantis has ever done. Carl Binder has a record of writing good episodes so it shouldn't be too surprising that this one was so good.

First, I loved the distinct lack of technobabble solutions. The whole starship business has never sat well with me ever since the Prometheus debuted especially since the beaming technology makes quick escapes too easy, but the Daedalus did an excellent job of simply transporting the characters to the scene and then backing off. If Stargate must have starships, this is how they should be used. No confusing techo-solution was required to extricate Shep and McKay from the machines, and, remarkably, both men retained the ability to enter and leave the machines at will without any clichéd "we're stuck in the machine" plot twists. This last point was particularly important in distinguishing this episode from any number of similar episodes that Star Trek has done and even well-made SG-1 episodes like "Gamekeeper" and "Avatar".

In fact, one of the major strengths of this episode was its refusal to service the standard genre clichés. Sure we all had the Wraith chick pinned early in the episode, but so did Shep. The dilemma then shifted from a standard (and boring) "who's the traitor" storyline to a far more interesting "how do we expose her" situation. Contrast this with "Threads" where everyone had figured out who Anubis was an hour before an "enlightened" Daniel Jackson did. That was bad television. This was good. Of course, the next most obvious cliché in this situation would be to make the captain or someone unexpected turn out to be the Wraith but this episode played it straight the entire time making our heroes appear both smart and right. How refreshing.

The visual effects were mesmerizing. The whole look of the "virtual environment" was perfect. Bright, but weirdly contrasted in a visually pleasing way. The phase-in and out effect was also really nifty. Whoever conceived the production design for this episode needs a raise.

There were other wonderful moments that made this episode a joy to behold. McKay insisting that it was his turn to save Shep's life. Sheppard disappearing and then reappearing to escape from his cell (one of the most conceptually innovative jailbreak scenes I've ever seen, and nicely staged, too). Very little Weir (sorry!). Caldwell being both forceful and flexible as the situation warranted. Teyla and Ronan providing backup support. The lack of any major plotholes or "Hmmmmm..." moments (that I could discern) was also a nice change of pace.

This was a great episode of Stargate. I've been fairly critical of both shows as of late, but episodes like this remind me why I still watch after all of these years.

SlytherinGal
September 23rd, 2005, 11:40 PM
Very good eppy :D

I loved the interaction between McKay and Shep...they have some of the best interactions with each other...it seems like one of them is saving the other one's life/butt ;)

immhotep
September 24th, 2005, 02:24 AM
i agree that the storyline, would break some cliches such as the ones mentioned by SJT, but it still didnt feel ancient it felt like tauri in 100 years, not the ancients million of years of technology above any other race.
it also prescribed to the 'self destruct as last resort' cliche......a better result would of been that the aurora was refitted by the youngest ancient on baord and set out on a mission to destroy the wraith.....in fact anything but blowing it up......to answer a point from long ago is this what you imagined the ancients more important ship( for it contained the knowledge to destroy the wraith) to look like:
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/6371/pdvd0006iv.png (http://imageshack.us/)

Seastallion
September 24th, 2005, 04:19 AM
i agree that the storyline, would break some cliches such as the ones mentioned by SJT, but it still didnt feel ancient it felt like tauri in 100 years, not the ancients million of years of technology above any other race.
it also prescribed to the 'self destruct as last resort' cliche......a better result would of been that the aurora was refitted by the youngest ancient on baord and set out on a mission to destroy the wraith.....in fact anything but blowing it up......to answer a point from long ago is this what you imagined the ancients more important ship( for it contained the knowledge to destroy the wraith) to look like:

Except that even the youngest crewman on board the Aurora would physically be about a 100 years old. The only thing keeping them alive at all, were the stasis pods. If any of them had left, they'd die almost immediately.

Steve_the_Wraith
September 24th, 2005, 04:37 AM
i agree that the storyline, would break some cliches such as the ones mentioned by SJT, but it still didnt feel ancient it felt like tauri in 100 years, not the ancients million of years of technology above any other race.
it also prescribed to the 'self destruct as last resort' cliche......a better result would of been that the aurora was refitted by the youngest ancient on baord and set out on a mission to destroy the wraith.....in fact anything but blowing it up......to answer a point from long ago is this what you imagined the ancients more important ship( for it contained the knowledge to destroy the wraith) to look like:
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/6371/pdvd0006iv.png
Give it up "immothep" for nearly a week you've been taking every chance to rag on this episode - every couple of pages on this thread, you started a thread to complain and try to work your opinion of Aurora into every post you make.

You wanted the Ancients to be kick ass, the Aurora to be a battleship and to go on a Wraith killing spree. Instead the Ancients were dying of old age, probably senile and the Aurora was a wreck.

None of this was a suprise - time and time again SG:A has said the Ancients are gone, died out, lived out the last of their days on earth. They're not turning up anytime soon to save the galaxy. Its up to the Atlantis team to save the galaxy themselves

SnoggingPicard
September 24th, 2005, 05:25 AM
I finally realized where I recognized the captain of the Aurora -- he was Admiral Jellico in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Chain of Command".

Erised
September 24th, 2005, 05:26 AM
Well it wasn't the best episode ever.. They should have made that a season finale.. this way I wouldn't be crazy about waiting for january

mindfire
September 24th, 2005, 05:42 AM
This was a good episode, I liked seeing what the inside of an ancient ship looked like.

ShadowMaat
September 24th, 2005, 06:10 AM
I got the impression that she was just repeating what she'd heard the others say without really understanding it.
Well, yeah, which made it all the funnier that Caldwell bought it. ;) Guess he didn't understand it, either. :D

TechnoBoY
September 24th, 2005, 07:12 AM
I thought it was a really good ep! One of the best in S2 so far. Just had these little character moments that were kick arse! Like Teylas technobabble thing. Hahaha!

It did have some flaws but every SG ep has flaws nowadays. This ep was much better then Lost Boys for me.

SBacklin
September 24th, 2005, 07:35 AM
I liked this episode. I actually thought it was sad. You spend all that time in a VR world and you end up thinking it's real....only to find out that it's not real and your fake world has been infiltrated by a Wraith then you all have to die. Thats what was sad.

Macilnar
September 24th, 2005, 08:58 AM
i agree that the storyline, would break some cliches such as the ones mentioned by SJT, but it still didnt feel ancient it felt like tauri in 100 years, not the ancients million of years of technology above any other race.
it also prescribed to the 'self destruct as last resort' cliche......a better result would of been that the aurora was refitted by the youngest ancient on baord and set out on a mission to destroy the wraith.....in fact anything but blowing it up......to answer a point from long ago is this what you imagined the ancients more important ship( for it contained the knowledge to destroy the wraith) to look like:
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/6371/pdvd0006iv.png (http://imageshack.us/)
Thanks for the pic...small but perfect for what I need it for...

Edit:
Also other then the fact that they didn't show us what the "Aurora" looked like before its battle with the Wraith I thought the episode was great, but then maybe that is because I am happy just to have seen an Ancient ship other then a PJ. Also off of what McKay said when the ZPM was plugged in it sent out a recall signal, this means more ships maybe out there. I don't believe we will ever get an Ancient War ship (I doubt the Atlantis Team will get another ship, I think the Daedalus is it for several seasons at least).

Samuel J. Tilden
September 24th, 2005, 09:00 AM
I finally realized where I recognized the captain of the Aurora -- he was Admiral Jellico in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Chain of Command".
Captain Jellico was played by Ronny Cox (Senator Kinsey).

dosed150
September 24th, 2005, 09:05 AM
yeh thats what i was about to say but im almost sure he was on star trek once

Mattathias2.0
September 24th, 2005, 09:06 AM
I enjoyed this episode.

It was nice to see some Ancients...

Jonzey
September 24th, 2005, 09:31 AM
i agree that the storyline, would break some cliches such as the ones mentioned by SJT, but it still didnt feel ancient it felt like tauri in 100 years, not the ancients million of years of technology above any other race.
it also prescribed to the 'self destruct as last resort' cliche......a better result would of been that the aurora was refitted by the youngest ancient on baord and set out on a mission to destroy the wraith.....in fact anything but blowing it up......to answer a point from long ago is this what you imagined the ancients more important ship( for it contained the knowledge to destroy the wraith) to look like:
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/6371/pdvd0006iv.png (http://imageshack.us/)
Looks a little like Red Dwarf in that picture.

Anyway, I thought the episode was ok. Was entertaining but nothing special. I knew from the moment he entered VR world and met the ancients that the ship would get blown up and they'd all die. Gonna add that first officer women to my already long list of ''Atlantis hotties'' (I don't really have a list. Honest)

Here's what I would have liked to happen at the end:
The hottie was not the wraith (So we can see her again). The ancients are defrosted and use the magic ancient healy powers to revert back to being young (and hot in some cases). They get to work fixing the ship then decide to finish their mission, and head back to where they came from to find the Wraith's weakness. The Daedelus heads back to Atlantis. Then we can hear from the Aurora in a later ep, if they find a weakness (although if SG1 is anything to go by, we would probably never hear from them again :p ).

entil2001
September 24th, 2005, 09:50 AM
Compared to its parent series, “Atlantis” has been struggling to find its direction this season. Some plot threads have been introduced that will continue to play out over the course of the season, but the strength of the first season arc has given way to something less well defined. The result has been a hit-or-miss season thus far, and this episode is another example.

Like with the “SG-1” summer finale, I’m speaking only of the first hour; episode 2.10 will be covered in another review. In particular, this episode felt very small-scale. While there were some stakes introduced into the story, and the presence of the Wraith in the virtual world was clever, the end result was the preservation of the status quo.

Those kinds of episodes have never been satisfying for me, though I recognize the general necessity. My real concern with this episode is that the majority of the plot elements could have been present even if this were a first season episode. In fact, it was the inclusion of second season elements that kept this from being a sub-par episode.

I like the fact that Caldwell was in the position to demonstrate his priorities and further define his point of view. Just as the SG-1 team always had strife with groups like the NID, seeking to use the gate system for a questionable agenda, it’s better to have someone like Caldwell who can push for a more military approach without being a villain or necessarily negative in his impact.

For all that, Ronon’s presence was something of a waste. He didn’t contribute much to the episode, other than as someone for Teyla to flirt with on occasion. I’m sure he was included on the team just in case there was trouble on the Aurora, but since the trouble was largely left to McKay to resolve, he didn’t have much to contribute.

Teyla wasn’t all that useful either. This is becoming more and more of a concern. It makes sense for Sheppard and McKay to be prominent, given their popularity, but there are other characters to focus on and the first season was a lot better at spreading the joy. I also find it a little predictable for Teyla to be so interested in Ronon, especially since he’s not exactly the most sensitive person on the planet.

The tension over keeping the secret of Atlantis from the Wraith was nice touch, though the writers had to make the actual Ancients within the virtual world rather bland so that Hot!WraithGirl stuck out like a sore thumb. I didn’t figure that she was a Wraith, but it did seem odd that she was the only one with a real attitude about Sheppard.

Other than that, I’m just annoyed that there was nothing for the team to gain from the situation. Sure, they took out two more cruisers, but the Wraith have a ton of ships out there. It’s not hard to believe that the Wraith are trying to overcome the hyperdrive problem, since they are rapidly starving, if earlier episodes are to be believed. But couldn’t Sheppard have gotten a hint about the nature of the Wraiths’ weakness?

Whatever the case, this episode just didn’t do it for me. McKay found some ways to manipulate the virtual world that felt more like plot convenience than something he actually could have accomplished. That sort of thing is normal for this series, but it seemed excessive this time around. Hopefully the second hour of the “summer finale” was a bit more substantial.

sgcanongirl
September 24th, 2005, 10:11 AM
My understanding is that the Ancient's bodies wouldn't have survived being rescusitated. McKay referred to them as moribund, which is virtually dead...

NotAscended
September 24th, 2005, 10:35 AM
As other have noted, plot holes galore, but I still enjoyed the episode. Thing that most caught my attention in the character interactions:

McKay/Shep trust issues: Shep seems to have regained a lot of his trust in Rodney from their last encounter with unknown ancient tech, although Rodney still seems to be overcompensating to try to regain Shep's trust by going into the VR to save him.

Teyla/Caldwell: Could she have been more passive/aggressive in being insubordinate? First, she lies to him with some technobabble about where McKay is. Then after she gets beamed up to the Daedalus, she "suggests" to him that medical crews should be ready when McKay and Shep come out of the VR--something that McKay told her to tell Caldwell. I found all those interactions very odd/interesting because while her loyalty to her team comes across, it isn't clear that her loyalty extends to the whole Earth presence in her galaxy. I'm not criticizing the way they are writing the Teyla character here, just really curious where they are going with it.

LoveYouBaby
September 24th, 2005, 10:50 AM
I'm glad you Americans got a chance to see the full 1 minute version of the opening sequence, the PROPER opening sequence.

So first off, congratulations! :D

Though this episode was slightly weird in many ways, I still enjoyed this episode, a little more than "The Lost Boys", though it had its fair share of action.

Sheppard and McKay.. watching these 2 guys go at it, reminds me of the good ol' days of Jack and Daniel.

What I didn't get was with the astronaunt suits, what happened to the EV suits that we came to love??

Teyla did a great job at technobabble.

The whole TV-on the fritz ... needed some getting use to...

Nice episode. :)

Shame we never got to see what the ship was meant to look like.

SnoggingPicard
September 24th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Captain Jellico was played by Ronny Cox (Senator Kinsey).

Crap, I meant Captain Benjamin Maxwell -- he was the one who went berserk over the Cardassians in the TNG episode "The Wounded". My bad. :D

SnoggingPicard
September 24th, 2005, 11:03 AM
yeh thats what i was about to say but im almost sure he was on star trek once

Sorry about that. But I figured it out. I guess getting only four hours of sleep made my brain go all funky. ;)

SnoggingPicard
September 24th, 2005, 11:05 AM
As other have noted, plot holes galore, but I still enjoyed the episode. Thing that most caught my attention in the character interactions:

Teyla/Caldwell: Could she have been more passive/aggressive in being insubordinate? First, she lies to him with some technobabble about where McKay is. Then after she gets beamed up to the Daedalus, she "suggests" to him that medical crews should be ready when McKay and Shep come out of the VR--something that McKay told her to tell Caldwell. I found all those interactions very odd/interesting because while her loyalty to her team comes across, it isn't clear that her loyalty extends to the whole Earth presence in her galaxy. I'm not criticizing the way they are writing the Teyla character here, just really curious where they are going with it.

Hmmm, good point. I don't think that we've seen enough conflict between Teyla and the rest of the Atlantis staff. There are bound to be gaps between the cultures and their ideas about how to deal with certain problems, but she's been pretty non-confrontational up to this point. Maybe Caldwell's brusque, efficient nature will bring out more of her other points of view, or maybe she isn't too happy with Caldwell over the way her handled the situation with Shep two weeks ago.

SGalisa
September 24th, 2005, 11:16 AM
less than 24 hours, and already 9 pages in here?!! yikes!!
...haven't read anything above yet... (*sigh*) got lots of reading to do...!

I think "Aurora" was the episode Joe Flanigan was referring to as the "(Bob)Hope and (Bing)Crosby" episode. ;)

Scene after Shep got knocked out, and Rodney went into virtual mode-
Leave it to be - Rodney's voice that would wake Shep out of a sound sleep! :p

Also, *love* Rodney's reactions to exposing his vulnerable, lonesome self to the wraith - after he took it out of being in the virtual environment stasis:

McKay: {realizing the inevitable!} "Oh noooooh!" (*eek!!*) :D

Unamed
September 24th, 2005, 11:39 AM
So if sheps team had to EVA to get aboard the Aurora, how did the wraith get in?

Omegastein
September 24th, 2005, 11:40 AM
Crap, I meant Captain Benjamin Maxwell -- he was the one who went berserk over the Cardassians in the TNG episode "The Wounded". My bad. :D

Actually, no.. you are wrong again.

Want to give it another shot?

The Captain of the Aurora was played by Bruce Dawson, who also had a role in SG-1 Season 6 episode, "Forsaken" as a Seberus Crewman. He hasn't been in Star Trek - but, good try.

ShadowMaat
September 24th, 2005, 12:07 PM
Actually, Canada got the ep earlier this week, which is how there are nine pages of discussion "overnight". ;)

warmbeachbrat
September 24th, 2005, 01:02 PM
Ha. :D Can't we stick with the Hope and Crosby comparison? It feels more apt. And Jerry Lewis always makes me cringe. :S

Okey-dokey! :p

smushybird
September 24th, 2005, 01:25 PM
[SIZE=2]less than 24 hours, and already 9 pages in here?!! yikes!!

I think some viewers got to see the ep a week earlier.



I think "Aurora" was the episode Joe Flanigan was referring to as the "(Bob)Hope and (Bing)Crosby" episode. ;)

It definitely reminded me of that. I hope they do lots more the same way.



McKay: {realizing the inevitable!} "Oh noooooh!" (*eek!!*) :D

I love Rodney's "Oh no!"s. He's so cute. :D
I noticed Teyla got in an oh no, herself. Maybe subconsciously imitating Rodney.

Auralis
September 24th, 2005, 02:29 PM
I don't know, that was realy just meh. WAY to many plotholes to let the ep make any sense at all. They should not have made the episode in my view.

auenway
September 24th, 2005, 02:37 PM
One thing I didn't get about Aurora was why would the Ancients build a VR world to live in while they are stasis? What's the point of something like that.

AGateFan
September 24th, 2005, 02:52 PM
One thing I didn't get about Aurora was why would the Ancients build a VR world to live in while they are stasis? What's the point of something like that.
Maybe so they can plan a way to fix whatever it was that sent them into statis to begin with.

SG1diplomat
September 24th, 2005, 02:54 PM
I really enjoyed the ep despite the huge plot holes. I loved the ending where Weir and co. toasted the Aurora crew.

I was a little dissapointed that the writers keep finding excuses not to give us real answers about the Ancients. Atlantis finds an Ancient warship. Do they get to learn any of its secrets? nope, cause the ship is badly damaged. Atlantis finds living Ancients aboard. Will they get to meet real Ancients? Nope, the Ancients can't be revived for some technobabble reason so our intrepid heroes can only meet them in a VR world. The Ancients learned about a weakness in Wraith technology. Will Atlantis finally learn about a Wraith weakness? Nope, again, the info is conviniently destroyed and the captain does not know what the info is. Will Atlantis get to keep the Ancient ship? Nope, again the ship has to be conveniently destroyed.

Come on SGA writers, give us some juicy Ancient info!

Macilnar
September 24th, 2005, 03:05 PM
One thing I didn't get about Aurora was why would the Ancients build a VR world to live in while they are stasis? What's the point of something like that.
Hey if the Ancients hadn't made a VR world then they would have died of boredom, I mean 10,000 years of stasis and nothing to do.

Xmen583
September 24th, 2005, 03:10 PM
I Wonder If Atlantis Team will Find out their weakness sometime in stargate atlantis season 3 or 4 before the wraith get to earth. if the plague wipe out every human race on earth, there be nothing left for wraith to feed.

SnoggingPicard
September 24th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Actually, no.. you are wrong again.

Want to give it another shot?

The Captain of the Aurora was played by Bruce Dawson, who also had a role in SG-1 Season 6 episode, "Forsaken" as a Seberus Crewman. He hasn't been in Star Trek - but, good try.

::sniff:: No. Are you sure? I swear to all that's holy that that's him. And I have that episode on tape too. If it isn't him, then he has a twin, there's no mistaking that face. Do you know where he's from, because it's going to drive me absolutely berserk. Grrr. I hate when I'm wrong. ;)

Fonzavitch
September 24th, 2005, 03:20 PM
I dont want to seem like a sissy but did anybody else cry when the captain was making his final speech addressing his crew, and back at Atlantis as the memorial toast to their contributions. It was just heart breaking.

Traveler Enroute1
September 24th, 2005, 03:31 PM
I'm going on the limb and declaring I liked this ep.

First, agreeing with Samuel J. Tilden (what a name :) ), I liked the look of this story. So often, VR is depicted as that chrome/shocking blue environment with lots of shadows; this one was bright, almost faded like the inhabitants of the pods. Even the main characters that Shep and McKay interacted with were slightly off focussed, esp. the captain. I easily envisionded their lives just fading away if the Wraith hadn't dropped in.

And who wouldn't think 21C/Wraith (or hotgirl as some describe her; eh.) was totally not right when she didn't respond to Shep turning on the charm? I always think of him as naturally flirtatious, and here he really couldn't seem to stop himself! Of course, this Wraith being male in RL might have dimmed the response, but, heh. ;) However, while I did guess that she was the bogey here, her purpose wasn't that straight up for me until McKay explained the 2 versions of Ancient hyperdrives.

Teyla's techie talk was very amusing, but I don't agree that she's just mouthing what she heard, not completely. Teyla's never been shown other than intelligent and a quick learner (such as with earth weapons). Anyway, Teyla and Ronon were both on pointe with keeping McKay up front with his plans and possible side effects of them. Their expressions at McKay's waffling made me laugh aloud.

Some questions already voiced occured to me as well, but beyond those, I was fond of this episode. The captain's last words being honored by the Atlantis crew was touching, esp. with the history of their own first doomed expedition (Before I Sleep). And I'm betting that McKay and Shep came away with more from their sojourn in the VR. McKay has his computer info to analyze, and he and Shep were hooked into a computer which in other instances has left deposits of stored info in the brain that surfaces later.

Yes, it could have been more... whatever. I liked it, and the following episode. ;)

Just sayin'.

Comblin
September 24th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Well.. actually... no.. :)

No disrespect. I am glad that you got some kind of emotional respons from it. But to me it just screamed: "Ooohh.. come on!!"

If you want to see some good speeches, I prefer BSG. Olmos Adama is a nasty one to make great speeches...

All IMOHO .. :)
/C

Macilnar
September 24th, 2005, 04:00 PM
Any chance that one of you who is really good at renderings, try and show what the Aurora might have looked liked before the Wraith attacked it?

Jeffer
September 24th, 2005, 05:31 PM
no but it was a good part

FoolishPleasure
September 24th, 2005, 05:54 PM
The toast would have had more emotional impact if we had gotten to know the crew a bit better.

Agree with Comblin - no one gives a speech like Commander Adama!

Johnquixote
September 24th, 2005, 05:58 PM
All I can say is I hope we have more eps where we see ancient ships like Aurora. I really liked the crew, would like to see more ships frozen in virtual environments or whatever.

Dannygirl
September 24th, 2005, 05:59 PM
I felt bad for him, he seemed like a really nice Ancient. My emotions came in Sheppard's and Caldwell's reaction to the explosion. That was painful. And yes, the toast was equally as painful. There you understood what the Captain talked about when he said the Aurora would be remembered.

sparklegem
September 24th, 2005, 07:14 PM
There were some absolutely fabulous character moments in Aurora. Teyla convincingly spewing technobabble was priceless with Ronan trying to help, especially after watching Simon trying to teach Mal, Zoe, and Jayne medical technobabble on Firefly.

The interaction between Sheppard and Rodney was great. I felt that Rodney took Sheppard saying he didn't trust him more seriously than Sheppard meant it to be, and then you could see him trying harder to reassure him.

The toast at the end was a really nice touch. Unfortunetly, I didn't connect with any of the Ancients and didn't really care that they died on an emotional level beyond recognizing their predicament. It was just the way they came across. I just didn't pick up on the human element of it, maybe just the way the music/directing/acting was handled.

The other part of the episode that I didn't like was how the feel of the time limit was ruined. It threw off the last later part of the episode. Caldwell tells Rodney he's going to blow the ship up in a few minutes, Rodney enters the VR just to make sure Sheppard isn't stuck so they can hightail it out of there, and then spend the next twenty minutes hanging around without a sense of being anxious about the time limit nor seeming rushed. Yes, I understand that the pursuit of this knowledge was very important, but they're chatting it up like they're in the mess hall, talking about hot Wraiths, with a 'by the way we will be blown up in a few minutes' tacked on at the end before they go on their merry ways and Sheppard sentimentally sticks around substancially past when he learned there's no chance of learning the secret.


Whenever I see a SA ancients I get wondering what makes them so powerful. They don’t look smart than any average human, nothing closer to ascension. Somehow, when u see the ancients leaving earth to Pegasus millions of years a go, they look very advanced, they even read each others minds, instead of talking.
Overall I feel the technology and abilites of the Ancients in Stargate Atlantis have been drastically "dumbed down" compared to how the Ancients were portrayed in SG1 seasons 1-8.
You make good points like with using chair interfaces to a regular old Star Trek setup in Aurora. I definitely got a much more mundane humanesque vibe from the Ancients in Before I Sleep and Aurora and even Threads than how they've been built up to be perceived in the past. I'd say that maybe we were just putting the Ancients on a pedestal without actually knowing them before, like it was suggested in Trinity, but we have living examples like the opening of Rising and Frozen. Perhaps what we are seeing of the Ancients in Stargate Atlantis is from when their society was past its prime.

Erised
September 24th, 2005, 07:23 PM
cry? :eek: no characters have to grow on me in order to deserve my tears :)
The last time I cried was because of Star Wars III...

sparklegem
September 24th, 2005, 07:41 PM
So is it safe to say that Rodney's relationship with Katie Brown is over? I mean, in Aurora he was commenting on how hot the Wraith was, and right after in Lost Boys he says "Well, couldn't we have met these people on a tropical beach planet, populated by tall, blonde women?" It doesn't sound like he's in a happy relationship with Dr. Brown.

PartyLikeIts1984
September 24th, 2005, 09:04 PM
I was sad, that's for sure. I mean, it was an Ancient who was all...you know, down to Earth and not condecending.

Ascended Times.2
September 24th, 2005, 11:15 PM
The last time I cried was because of Star Wars III...

Hm...Strange, me to, when Obi-wan said "You were the chosen one!" And the music changed, for me, it's all about the music.

Hyperspace
September 25th, 2005, 12:06 AM
I thought the Aurora ending was very touching...it could have been maudlin, but the scene played out well. Sometimes you don't have the 'luxury' of knowing people who die heroically, but you can still mourn them, and a toast to their passing was very appropriate.

Of course, it made me wonder how much the spirit of the Aurora's crew was channeled in that moment. The value of ceremony in a universe where what lies beyond is a mystery...I've always wondered, and this last scene made me think about that again.

4574
September 25th, 2005, 02:40 AM
did i turn it off too soon ? http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/images_ina_default/icons/icon20.gif

Stevo
September 25th, 2005, 05:55 AM
I was sad, that's for sure. I mean, it was an Ancient who was all...you know, down to Earth and not condecending.

i totally agree with you, we meet a LIVING (to a degree) Ancient whos down to earth and not like the stuckup prunes in before i sleep (like the "the council's decision is final" chick and the guy who went off at Janus) and what happens to him?!?!? he dies :( , his speach was pretty good aswell

Little note though, when sheppard got the self destruct code was it set in the "Virtual Environment" or somewhere in the damaged ship

Stevo
September 25th, 2005, 05:56 AM
did i turn it off too soon ? http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/images_ina_default/icons/icon20.gif

you didnt watch the ending?

ShadowMaat
September 25th, 2005, 06:09 AM
So is it safe to say that Rodney's relationship with Katie Brown is over? I mean, in Aurora he was commenting on how hot the Wraith was, and right after in Lost Boys he says "Well, couldn't we have met these people on a tropical beach planet, populated by tall, blonde women?" It doesn't sound like he's in a happy relationship with Dr. Brown.
Just because someone's in a relationship doesn't mean they don't fantasize. ;) Wander through the thunk threads some time and ask how many of the folks there are actually married. :D

I think Rodney's just being a typical male, chasing after impossible dreams.

Metarock Sam
September 25th, 2005, 06:19 AM
I thought it was a good ending although a little sad. It wasnt as emotional as some Stargate episodes . eg Meridian

the Fifth Race
September 25th, 2005, 06:26 AM
I have two questions I want to ask all my fellow SGA fans and GW brethern....

1) Why did'nt Shep mention that the Ancients had ascended or they learned how to ascend? I kept waiting on him to mention this to at least the captain.

2) Do you think the crew ascended after the explosion?. Again I was kind of waiting to see a white light emerge from the explosion indicating they had ascended.

3) I know this question is kind of tied inot my 2nd question but do you think those Ancients ascended not knowing that the other Ancients had learned to ascend. Maybe they had an Ancient angel waiting to help them ascend after the explosion?

Calicto
September 25th, 2005, 06:41 AM
1. Because they should have known this already.
The Lantians (Pegasus Ancients) were survivors of the plague who came to the Pegasus Galaxy. Some of their conrads in the MW galaxy had ascended and they knew about it.

2. No. Not at all.

3. No. Even the Ascended Ancients would not help their fellow Ancients ascend. THey hardcore-ishly believed that you must attain Ascension by yourself.

sparklegem
September 25th, 2005, 07:08 AM
Just because someone's in a relationship doesn't mean they don't fantasize. ;) Wander through the thunk threads some time and ask how many of the folks there are actually married. :D

I think Rodney's just being a typical male, chasing after impossible dreams.
But he said it in front of the team, and with the Atlantis grapevine, it's very possible Katie would hear about it. I think he has more sense than that.

I just thought it was more than a coincidence that Rodney hasn't talked about women this season to my recollection (except Duet) and then all of a sudden it's in two episodes back to back.

Eoin
September 25th, 2005, 07:10 AM
hmmm i thought aurora was a good ending...and a bit sad...but crying nah not my style..lol..
I only cried when i was told stargate wasnt real :p

Erised
September 25th, 2005, 07:17 AM
Hm...Strange, me to, when Obi-wan said "You were the chosen one!" And the music changed, for me, it's all about the music.

I know! It's all about the music for me as well. I cried when obi was said "You were the chosen one!" and when ObiWan gave up Luke..
and then when it ended because it meant no more Star Wars!!! :mad: :S

oh wait it's offtopic :)

freyr's mother
September 25th, 2005, 07:18 AM
I was kinda hoping that they would have been able to salvage something from Aurora like some drones or some other weapon or something like the ancient hyperdrive. Maybe the info in the communicae. I was also hoping we would have gotten to see some flashbacks to when aurora was in battle. I would have liked to see it in action but, it probably would have been too far out of sga budget.

Comblin
September 25th, 2005, 07:40 AM
Little note though, when sheppard got the self destruct code was it set in the "Virtual Environment" or somewhere in the damaged ship

Yeah.. I also thought about that. The selfdestruct code must have been the same in the VR and in reality. So, when sheppard sent the code from thier own ship, some part of the damaged aurora must have picked it up and triggered a selfdestruct in the real world.
/C

Standback
September 25th, 2005, 09:01 AM
I think I agree with one of the major threads of opinion here... it was a good, solid, interesting 1-shot ep - but it looked like it could possibly be a major ep, with opportunities to find out all kinds of neat and important stuff, but this was all ignored for a particularly blatant use of the old "destroy the important tech" cliche.

As I understand it, the Wraith only discovered the ship and sent that Wraith there about when Atlantis did - as in, extremely recently. Is anybody but me somewhat peeved that the Wraith managed, in that time, to:
A) Reach the ship
B) Discover the neural network
C) Wipe everybody's memories
D) Replace the memories with a new scenario of his choice
E) Tamper with the Ancient tech to simulate the appearence of the First Officer.

I mean, that's all heavy-duty stuff, especially when we're talking about Ancient technology, which is not exactly easy to figure out, let alone subvert to your own whim. A single Wraith managed to do all that on his own, with no obvious equipment, in that short, short amount of time? And he COULDN'T hack into the computers or something to find out the precise hyperdrive specifications? Sounds a little... what's the word? Oh, yes. Contrived.

So: cool episode, wonderful work from all the actors, but a tsk-tsk-tsk for the writers. This episode has a couple of splits in the seams.

Easter Lily
September 25th, 2005, 10:12 AM
Once upon a time there was a king and a queen who after many years, had a beautiful baby daughter, whom they named Aurora. In celebration of such an event, they invited all the important people of the land. Unfortunately, they were remiss and forgot to invite the most powerful witch in the land. But she turned up anyway, with a vengeance. She was insulted at being forgotten and put a curse on the baby girl, declaring that she turned 16, she would prick her finger on a spindle and die! However, the good fairy was late and appeared soon after. Although she could not reverse the curse, she altered it slightly. The princess would prick her finger but would not die but fall asleep for a hundred years until such time as she would experience true love's kiss.

Ooops... wrong story... :D

Once upon a time there were a race of people called the Ancients that sent out a ship named Aurora to discover more about an evil race called the Wraith. Unfortunately the Aurora's mission was cursed from the beginning and it sustained much damage in its travels and so its crew put itself to sleep for 10 000 years. While asleep, the Wraith, a perpetual thorn in their side, trying to find the secrets of the Ancients, sends one of their own to join them in their dream-like state. Unfortunately, there was no true love's kiss to revive them but two unlikely princes stumbling around in their dreams must find the secret to destroying the evil Wraith before it finds the secret of intergalactic space travel. There is no happily ever after for the Aurora... for although theirs is a heroic end, they do not live to fight another day.

knocknashee
September 25th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Dear Lord EL, don't you think DOCTOR McKay's ego is big enough, without giving him ideas of grandeur..? :p

Prince Rodney...*shudder* Frightening I tell you! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Knocknashee/smilies/shock.gif

cafine_us
September 25th, 2005, 10:31 AM
hmmm i thought aurora was a good ending...and a bit sad...but crying nah not my style..lol..
I only cried when i was told stargate wasnt real :p
It's not real?! :eek:

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Am I missing something, or does anyone else find it a bit odd that the entire crew of the Aurora was in stasis???

Teyla and Ronon went about the ship, and granted they only viewed a small portion of it, yet all but a few stasis pods were empty.

I would expect a ship that heavily damaged to have major casualties and for a good number of those stasis pods they examined to be empty. The other item of concern for me would be having a difficult time making the decision to go in stasis with the knowledge that there could be more wraith vessels on the way :S

Anyone else have any thoughts?

djmc26
September 25th, 2005, 12:49 PM
i think they decided to go in stasis since, according to what they believ in VR, road to Atlantis was so so so long, so they set the autopilot and then bum...maybe they got the bad chance to be engaged in some sort of wraith vessel...that somehow disabled, minor destroy it, before board it and make the clever (i must admit VERY CLEVER and SUBTILE, since they tend to be shown as animals) trap inside the Vr altering it...

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2005, 01:27 PM
At first I thought it was a long road back too.

However, the first officer (wraith) said that the ship was not built for speed and that it would take months to make it back to Atlantis. With the drive modifications it would only take days.

Which also brings up another question......if this info was so important and the possible undoing of the wraith.....why did they not send a faster vessel?? ......or have a puddle jumper on board that could gate to Atlantis with the information the first gate they came to?

The ship being in the state it was in, I can somewhat understand the decision to go into statis if they were unable to make repairs and travel any further.....but still I'd be very concerned about more wraith heading my way :S

cafine_us
September 25th, 2005, 01:37 PM
IIRC, the crew had initially forgotten going into stasis. They thought they were still out and about on the ship. Perhaps because of the damage to the ship they could not operate it at all, and thus put themselves into stasis in hopes that someone from Atlantis would come pick them up. Obviously that never happened.

whatswiththehairtealc
September 25th, 2005, 01:51 PM
what ever the case, its too damn bad that they had to blow it up in the end. it could have been a beneficial ship to the atlantis expedition, despite the damage.

Easter Lily
September 25th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Let it be our secret... ;) At least I didn't call him a knight in shining armour... :p
But I'm glad you got it... :D

Zrbyte
September 25th, 2005, 04:30 PM
I actually thought that maybe the crew of the aurora spent the whole of the trip in stasis.
When you think about it, ancient technology is so inteligent and self maintaining that it could probably essentially run itself. The point in the interactive network between the pods might have actually run a simulation of the ship wich output to the real ship so the crew could still run the ship normally even when in stasis. This would explain how the entire crew was in stasis, even those in parts of the ship exposed to the vacuum of space. Its possible that the battle that left the aurora in such a state was fought entireley while the crew where in stasis, damage resulting from the battle could have damaged the neural interface and made it so the crew where unable to wake them selves up voluntarily. The wraith stumbled accross the aurora and after a while repaired the neural interface but not before modifying it so the crew couldnt recall entering stasis in the first place.

Zrbyte
September 25th, 2005, 04:43 PM
I dont want to seem like a sissy but did anybody else cry when the captain was making his final speech addressing his crew, and back at Atlantis as the memorial toast to their contributions. It was just heart breaking.

Im so glad you posted this, I thought it was just me being too emotional at the time when I watched it. I didnt actually cry but I could feel myself fighting back the tears. The only other film I have felt like that with recently was shawshank redemption (dont know why I waited so long to watch that film).

Filipino
September 25th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Did anyone notice the new & longer opening credits of Aurora?

Xanderic
September 25th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Yeah.. I also thought about that. The selfdestruct code must have been the same in the VR and in reality. So, when sheppard sent the code from thier own ship, some part of the damaged aurora must have picked it up and triggered a selfdestruct in the real world.
/C
The Wraith changed the program so that the captain and crew would concentrate on the hyperdrive upgrades. However, the Captain would still retain his personal memories because it is his brain that's connected in the pod not the wraith's... get it? Therefore, the Captain would know the ship's self-destruct code.

The virtual reality Aurora is the same as the real life Aurora. Therefore, when Sheppard got out of the VR, he said "hold on" to Caldwell and then he and McKay went to one of those outlet things we saw in the VR Aurora and they put in the code.

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I actually thought that maybe the crew of the aurora spent the whole of the trip in stasis.
..........Its possible that the battle that left the aurora in such a state was fought entireley while the crew where in stasis, damage resulting from the battle could have damaged the neural interface and made it so the crew where unable to wake them selves up voluntarily.

Very interesting points. I had not thought of that as a possible explanation. Thanks :)

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Didn't cry......but I thought it was a very good ending....from the speech to the toast.

Samuel J. Tilden
September 25th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Did anyone notice the new & longer opening credits of Aurora?
We didn't get it here in the States. :-(

SmallTimePerson
September 25th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Which also brings up another question......if this info was so important and the possible undoing of the wraith.....why did they not send a faster vessel?? ......or have a puddle jumper on board that could gate to Atlantis with the information the first gate they came to?

good point. Maybe they couldn't send a different ship because they rest of the ships were either destroyed or trying to evac the remaining ancients. But why werent the drive mods taken place b4 the ship went there?

CZA
September 25th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I like the new opening, but it's kinda weird.

They should change the beginning bit, where it's just a gate in orbit, then the pjumper, then an explosion (rinse and repeat).

How retro do the Ancients look! I like! :cool:

Dannygirl
September 25th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I would imagine that if they had wanted to ascend, it would take more preparation than a few minutes. Being physiologically advanced only won't cut it. I can't help but think that the state of mind is critical when you're about to die, so the death can't be sudden. They just might not have had enough time.

Macilnar
September 25th, 2005, 07:27 PM
I like the new opening, but it's kinda weird.

They should change the beginning bit, where it's just a gate in orbit, then the pjumper, then an explosion (rinse and repeat).

How retro do the Ancients look! I like! :cool:
Lucky CANADIAN b*****d(Just Kidding) but you are lucky...

Dannygirl
September 25th, 2005, 07:33 PM
It's hard to tell where that ship started out at or whether the info was stumbled upon by accident or if they were working on it for awhile. It could have been the only ship left either on or close to the planet and they figured the info was important enough to start out right away and they could've modified the drive on the way to Atlantis. I don't remember, did they say they were working on finding a weakness or if it was just found (accidentally)? It's also possible the Wraith were attacking or going to attack this mysterious location, so no time could be spent on the necessities.

They could've also been attacked before they went into stasis and were forced into stasis for the ride home to survive the lack of atmosphere. They might have just thought that they needed to take their chances. Who knows, maybe the crew thought Atlantis knew of it's condition and would've sent backup had they backup to spare. Heck, maybe Atlantis did send backup and it was destroyed on the way there. Many possibilities though I like Zrbyte's better.

SGalisa
September 25th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by SGalisa:
9 pages!! haven't read anything above yet...
Originally posted by ShadowMaat:
Actually, Canada got the ep earlier this week, which is how there are nine pages of discussion "overnight". ;)...not to also mention that there seems to be more than a few other topics merged into this entire episode topic... that's what I get for not skimming thru the pages or reading anything first before posting... :p

gosh, just imagine all of the ep topics getting the misc. other {related episode} topics merged in... what a *headache* that'd be, for sure! Searching alone for closely related info mixtures is a monster idea in itself. agh! :D



Originally posted by Amalthia, at post # 19:
I also didn't like the time pressure in the episode and I think they could have defrosted some of the ancients.See Seastallion's comments below:

Originally posted by Seastallion:
...even the youngest crewman on board the Aurora would physically be about a 100 years old. The only thing keeping them alive at all, were the stasis pods. If any of them had left, they'd die almost immediately.Exactly! McKay said it first, and Shep repeated it later to the captain that they were all too old to survive being revived out of stasis (about 10,000 years worth)... ;)


Originally posted by Amalthia, at post # 19:
...the ancients. it's just frustrating that they never really learn more about them.frustrations are probably unanimous, but folks did ask for *tidbits* to be handed out in drips and drabs, instead of one huge lump sum - thus causing an "end of story saga".

Out of the 91% of the ancient database, that Zelenka wasn't able to save to the SGC's hard-drives in the SIEGE eps, how much of that 9% that could be saved still hasn't yet been deciphered? How much of it has actually been revealed to us viewers?? It's probably a challenge that the writers *are* fully aware of and haven't even figured out for themselves what new technologies, etc. are waiting to be revealed...

LORD MONK
September 25th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I have two questions I want to ask all my fellow SGA fans and GW brethern....

1) Why did'nt Shep mention that the Ancients had ascended or they learned how to ascend? I kept waiting on him to mention this to at least the captain.

2) Do you think the crew ascended after the explosion?. Again I was kind of waiting to see a white light emerge from the explosion indicating they had ascended.

3) I know this question is kind of tied inot my 2nd question but do you think those Ancients ascended not knowing that the other Ancients had learned to ascend. Maybe they had an Ancient angel waiting to help them ascend after the explosion?
1. I don't know. I was kept waiting to.

2. I think they did. It wouldn't take much writing to put that into play.

3. That would be how I would put into into play.

Lt.Col. Moore (Icarus)
September 25th, 2005, 07:47 PM
1. How many Puddle Jumpers did Aurora have or did it have any?

2. That's that the question I have.

SmallTimePerson
September 25th, 2005, 07:56 PM
1. How many Puddle Jumpers did Aurora have or did it have any?

I dont think the Aurora had any pjs, or they were destroyed or used in the fight that depleted the drones.

SGalisa
September 25th, 2005, 07:57 PM
...also, under a separate (lengthy) note...Not sure if this has already been discussed... :eek:
but couldn't ignore this, because it seems to be a common complaint and *trend* in the harder-core BSG vs. SG groups, and not sure if all points have been answered here (in addition to the below info, I usually -mostly- ignore plot-holes and so-claimed cliches, and just *enjoy* the stories as they are! it's more relaxing and therapeutic that way, too!)... :)

Originally posted by Amalthia, at post # 19:
Anyway, I'm trying not to compare SGA to BSG...but episodes like this make me wonder if the writers of BSG wrote an episode for SGA would it be much better?no. Not if it follows the same patterns of BSG, which forever seems preoccupied in focusing mostly on pure violence with more violence, explicit sexual encounters {meaning no visual modesty for the actors whatsoever}, or drunkeness. Ronon's drunken bout in SG:A's "Trinity" was enough for a while. And viewers all got overdosed with Lt.Ford's hopped up wraith enzyme drug in "Lost Boys"... sporadic studies in futility, for sure, but keep them sporadic and spread out over time! ;)

It also seems that the new BSG series has become Lexx's next generation (Sci-Fi channel) replacement but with BSG taking itself extremely seriously, limiting natural humor (with too many brooding melancholics acting out), and pushing the already psychologically depressed further into a corner with no hope of ever escaping the darkness, unless it's loaded in nearly every episode with physical-visual sex (not to be confused with *sexiness*) or a bottle of boos. (*sigh*)

Hence, the new BSG series has simply earned a reputation for being overly violent, with a constant stream of violence. Too much of its storyline has SGA's Col.Sumner's persona and attitudes. Maybe that's BSG's reborn-persona. Doesn't entice certain moody melancholics seeking relief from the bully mentality. Maybe viewers who do love the bully mentality of BSG either desire to be bullied around a bit, or are bullies themselves. Military issues, in general, don't give room for melancholics and don't tolerate natural humor - cynical or not. This is what the new BSG series has become; and some viewer commentaries reflect those very same attitudes.

Sure, explore a story or so on abuse (like Drug Abuse in SGA's Lost Boys, and the beat up cylon Six in BSG's mid-season-2 finale), but BSG is more about violence, sex or excessive drinking. There is little room to explore anything else. No interesting worlds or E.T.cultures to meet up with (and earth alone in all of its complexities doesn't count). Sum total of 13 colonies, humans vs. cylons and how many other galaxies in the universe? Lots of creativity that could be tapped into, but BSG isn't about exploring the entire universe. If they did, they'd be stepping outside from their own thematic storyline BOX and personality factors.

I used to think Stargate (SG-1) was too serious in its early seasons, and incapable of including any senses of humor, until I saw "Window of Opportunity" and "The Other Guys". Then, I started noticing the fun side of the entire series. BSG has no fun side (in my POV) of that type; and what it has presented so far, isn't my idea of *fun*. Somehow, I just can't get into their "victory" celebrations and wild partying (cause tomorrow might never come!)... I've never had that problem with Stargate. Maybe the darkness on BSG with fractured personas (dysfunctional family category) is just too overwhelming and overshadows any genuine joy making true enjoyment often suffocated instead.

SGA's bantering between Shep and McKay or McKay with anybody has become a delight to behold. They are both loners, yet find a common bond. They snark at each other, but have become almost inseparable friends. The Aurora episode is proof of that - Rodney risking his life for Sheppard... and I believe most of Aurora's Shep and McKay bantering just might be the humorous "Hope and Crosby" connection Joe Flanigan mentioned in his Season 2 interview. :)

When it was revealed that Stargate's Samantha Carter had a fractured relationship with her dad, and he was dying of cancer, her frustrations were easily felt, and many viewers felt compassion for her situation. But SG healed those fractures in time, while expanding her family and focus of interests. BSG has multiple fractures, and has tried to patch them up, but rips them away too quickly again. Real life? Yes. But seeing complete healing just doesn't seem likely. So far, the *darkness* steals every sliver of light on BSG. Only Laura Roslin has so far survived the darkness. And hers is currently drug induced.
========

Anyways...
If a BSG writer did write any SG eps, it's probably better not to advertise who writes *what* sometimes, and would be very necessary to stick to the format (including censor-wise) that's already been established, and keep the eps in context of the program's storyline. Let stealth mode *prove* itself over and over first, before the mystery writer is revealed. (No behind the internet chat sessions of support so-and-so 'cause they write for BSG. Stealth is stealth. Let the writer prove their creativities first.) Only TPTB need to know who's who and worked on what. It's only fair for the regular SG writers also involved.

Why? Considering the internet wars reputation of BSG taking over SG, figuratively or literally - it also might just work out better that way. And...Because -otherwise- there'd probably be a constant stream of BSG to SG comparisons afterwards.

Strong Case in point: When it was finally revealed that "Sanctuary" was written by a Star Trek writer, the Captain Kirk accusations made more sense... the ep had Rodney comparing Shep as Captain Kirk. On one level, it could have been a tribute to the Star Trek series; but the result actually ended up as unnecessarily derogatory and degrading. It was Shep's first E.T.alien encounter, not his 50th fling in another galaxy! I liked "Sanctuary", except for how the Kirk accusations were pounded into the ground...

Besides, I think Shep isn't into Star Trek as much as Rodney, but that idea hasn't been dealt with, as yet, and might never be. Although I have seen more Star Wars comments from Shep, as revealed in "Rising, part 2" (galaxy far, far away), and "Lost Boys"
(Shep's wishful *R2* conversation in the wraith dart!). :D

Oh, and it seemed Daniel's Jackson's alien encounter flings were forgotten about within the SGC series itself. By that comparison, Daniel had a closer track record to being accused of acting like Captain Kirk than Shep *ever* had. :)

Personally, McKay could possibly have an obsession with Kirk in some experience from his childhood... and I could see Rodney belonging to the SGC Star Trek fan club like Coombs and Felger (SG-1 ep: "The Other Guys"), but that idea never got explored or explained, and fell sort of short, especially in light of SG's own Daniel, Jack, and Sam's (SG-1) history of dating E.T.aliens - who were NOT from earth.

Shep's actual E.T. *dating* slate was clean, until Chaya came along. Learning how to fight with sticks in later Season 1 eps, and flirting with Teyla in the "Rising" eps (of the city of Atlantis) wasn't dating... and they've had more negatives come between them since they first met, than positives (see "Letters from Pegasus" and "Siege").

SmallTimePerson
September 25th, 2005, 08:08 PM
I don't remember, did they say they were working on finding a weakness or if it was just found (accidentally)?
that was their mission (well it was a recon anyway)

rexpop
September 25th, 2005, 08:23 PM
You make good points like with using chair interfaces to a regular old Star Trek setup in Aurora. I definitely got a much more mundane humanesque vibe from the Ancients in Before I Sleep and Aurora and even Threads than how they've been built up to be perceived in the past. I'd say that maybe we were just putting the Ancients on a pedestal without actually knowing them before, like it was suggested in Trinity, but we have living examples like the opening of Rising and Frozen. Perhaps what we are seeing of the Ancients in Stargate Atlantis is from when their society was past its prime.

You know I've been thinking the same thing, and it does explain nicely why the Ancients we have seen in SGA are less advanced than some of the ones in SG-1. Their civilization had peaked and was in decline. They could probably build and maintain existing technologies, but found it difficult to create new ones.

Also it would explain why we haven't seen much of the healing abilities shown by some of the SG-1 Ancients. I suspect that after around 2-3 million years of intermixing with the humans of Pegasus, the gene pool of the Ancients that came to Pegasus was fairly well diluted and so such abilities were probably fairly rare.

Droops
September 25th, 2005, 08:38 PM
I liked the toast at the end. Very appropriate and, for me, moving.

I liked the look Teyla flashed when they were about to put Sheppard into the pod, and were talking about who was more important (Sheppard or McKay), and the subsequent look by Dex.

The rest? *shrug*

SmallTimePerson
September 25th, 2005, 08:45 PM
I only cried when i was told stargate wasnt real :p
actually... The stargate is from some proffessor that had this theory (i read it somewhere that is where the writers got it from). Alot of the stuff on stargate is a reality. Z.P.E for example is real, but we lack the knowledge on how to use the energy (ZPE= Zero point energy, it is a complete vaccuum).

Xmen583
September 26th, 2005, 09:52 AM
i don't think the ancients in Aurora might learn how to ascended because they're too old, they don't have enough stenght to release the burden.

the ancient are very weak and very old, there no way when the ancient can ascended while in pod. they're too weak to learn how to ascended.