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Ascended Times.2
September 3rd, 2005, 04:24 AM
OK, F-302s have 6 (i think) anti fighter missles. Can they be quiped with naquadah enhanced missles? and if so, do these missles have shield modulators, now I know that the missles on the Prometheus (not sure about Daedalus missles) have shield modulators on them, they passed through Anubis' ships shields and hit the hull without a problem in lost city (At least i think so) so, in the first episode of season 7, they jad to "jump" through the shield, now why didn't they just shoot a missle through the shields and, boom...?
My apologise if this is in the wrong place...

captain keys
September 3rd, 2005, 06:55 AM
i dont think the prommie has missles does it ??? i no it has railguns dont no about missles and in it does i dont think they fired at his mothership they were on a collision course

nimitz
September 3rd, 2005, 08:47 AM
The prommie has missiles as shown in grace.Also the missiles are equipped with naquadah enhanced warheads(i beleive). So they can damage other fighters/bombers in space because most missiles use shockwaves to kill the target, but in space you can not get a shockwave.Then the missiles would not be able to destroy enemy fighters withot a more powerful warhead ,which naquadah can do..My opinion is they do have sheild modulator chips but this to my current knowledge has been backed up in the stargate universe.

Panther
September 3rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
Most missles use fragmentation warheads to shred airframes into little peices. You're thinking of torps and depth chargers mate.

_Owen_
September 4th, 2005, 08:31 AM
I believe all of their warheads are naquadah enhanced.

Owen Macri

EnigmaNZ
September 5th, 2005, 10:25 PM
The early missile used was the AIM-120A, the AMRAAM, though in a modified form. It lost the midbody fins and was fitted with vectored thrust which irl is being studied for the AIM-120, the previous sparrow had vectored thrust as does some sidewinders.

The current missile carried by the F-302 is the AIM-120C, it has retained the midbody fins, and the rear wings are different to the earlier model, they are clipped to fit the internal missile bays of the F-22. The AIM-120 with vectored thrust is 12'6" long.

The AIM-120 AMRAAM is a medium-range, air-to-air missile designed to meet the requirements of the United States and allied nations. The AIM-120 missile is faster, smaller and lighter than its predecessor the AIM-7 Sparrow medium-range missile and also has improved capabilities against low-altitude targets. AMRAAM incorporates active radar seeker with mid-course inertial navigation making it less dependent on aircraft's fire control radar. That capability enables simultaneous AMRAAM launching against different targets. For better performance AMRAAM can receive target location updates from the radar system of the launch aircraft. It has a blast fragmentation warhead detonated by a proximity fuse.

That kinda fits in with what we saw in Atlantis Intruder.

Specifications
Diameter/Caliber 180mm 7.09-in
Length 3.7 m 12-ft
Max Range 48 km 26 nm
Max Speed 4,896 kph Mach 4.1
Max Weight 157 kg 346-lb
Span .5 m 1-ft
Warhead Weight 20 kg 44-lb

http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=mn00005003

Add 6" for the longer motor of the vectored thrust variant. FYI the F-302 is 2.5 times the AIM-120 in lenght, and 5 times the AIM-120 lenght in span, ie 30-31 foot long, 60 to 62 foot span.

Naquadah is so stable I can't see it being set off with a conventional explosive, and they weren't aware of the effect of potassium for a long time, so I wonder how the early enhanced missile worked. Micronuke trigger, these come in reasonably small packages, though mass more than 20Kg. Hmm, actually not a lot more, a W54 warhead weighs about 23Kg, add 1kg of weapons grade naquadah and we have have a low Mt yeild warhead. Replace with naquadria and the yield would be much much higher.

This is probably a fair description of the W-54 Davy Crockett warhead. This warhead was the lightest ever deployed by the US, with a minimum mass of about 23 kg (it also came in heavier packages) and had yields ranging from 10 tons up to 1 Kt in various versions. The warhead was basically egg-shaped with the minor axis of 27.3 cm and a major axis of 40 cm. The test devices for this design fired in Hardtack Phase II (shots Hamilton and Humboldt on 15 October and 29 October 1958) weighed only 16 kg, impressively close to the minimum mass estimated above. These devices were 28 cm by 30 cm.
Minimizing nuclear weapon diameters has been a subject of intense interest for developing nuclear artillery shells, since the largest field artillery is typically the 208 mm (8.2 inch) caliber, with 155 mm (6.1 inches) artillery being the workhorse. Nuclear artillery shell designs with diameters as small as 105 mm have been studied. It is reported that designs least as small as 105 mm (4.1 inches) are possible. A hypothetical 105 mm system developed for use in an artillery shell would be about 50 cm (20 inches) long and weigh around 20 kg.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/News/DoSuitcaseNukesExist.html


Add the naquadah for Mt yeild, naquadria for high Mt yield and we have liftoff, a AIM-120 capital ship killer (with shield piercing tech).

Tain
September 5th, 2005, 10:46 PM
Did they ever state specifically that those were the missle types they were using? I would imagine they are supposed to be something custom. Think about it, you are spending billions to design a dedicated spaceborne fighter/interceptor. Would it not be prudent to design new missle, that is tailored for these new combat environments, to go along with your new fighters?

I think it makes more sense that the missles are new arrivals, and simply look like the missles stated above. I would think it would be more costly to retrofit current missles to be spaceworthy than it would to design an entirely new missle to do the job from the ground up. Plus, this way they can plan for exotic warhead capabilities from the start, such as the afformentioned naquada enhanced anti ship toys.


One other thing, at the speed missles travel, vectoring the missles thrust alone would not be enough to make it viable at hitting fast moving spaceborne targets, the turn radius of the missle would be too great. (another reason i think the missles are new developments, it would be prudent to build in maneuver assist systems to help lessen the turn radius and make the missle more dangerous in space engagements.)

EnigmaNZ
September 5th, 2005, 11:21 PM
When the X-301 was developed, it was stated that it used the AIM-120A missile, thought it lost the mid fins. Vectored thrust means it can tail steer, the tail can spin around the nose, very manuevourable, a lot of the SRAAM deploy this feature, AIM-9X sidewinder, the old sparrow, aspide amongst others. There has been a program to develop a vectored thrust AIM-120 since 2000.

Tain
September 5th, 2005, 11:28 PM
When the X-301 was developed, it was stated that it used the AIM-120A missile, thought it lost the mid fins. Vectored thrust means it can tail steer, the tail can spin around the nose, very manuevourable, a lot of the SRAAM deploy this feature, AIM-9X sidewinder, the old sparrow, aspide amongst others. There has been a program to develop a vectored thrust AIM-120 since 2000.

Ah ok, thanks for the source on the AIM quote.

However i know how thrust vectoring works, and it wouldn't be enough by itself to counter the inertial forces it would encouter at that speed in a vacuum. The turn radius would still be vary large without assisstance as it could not rely on fins to help it in a vacuum. It would need some kind of thrust assist at or near the opposite end of the missle from where the main thrust is comming to be any where near viable in an anti fighter role.

That is of course assuming the missle doesn't have some kind of near omnidirectional thrust vectoring capability, like +90 degrees. Last i checked the actual range of movement was much less.