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alaskannut
July 29th, 2004, 09:24 PM
Hey guys, Im kinda stuck a long way from a tv with scifi channel and have missed Rising and New Order..so how did we stop the ship sent by the system lords mentioned in the transcript? Did we reactivate the great fountain of happiness???Is that what the attack drone Sheppard is supposed to have launched is--one of the glowing squids of doom??

Mio
July 29th, 2004, 09:31 PM
Spoilers, and stuff.








Yes, He accidentally activated a glowy jellyfish of DOOM!

We didn't. Baal destroyed the ship en-route.

alaskannut
July 29th, 2004, 09:37 PM
Thnx man...and cool...the gun still works!! hoo-ah!



Warning: Thar be alaskans out there!!

Martouf84
July 30th, 2004, 12:16 PM
Spoilers, and stuff.
We didn't. Baal destroyed the ship en-route.

We do not really know if the ship was destroyed. Maybe Daniel was just bluffing knowing that the (other) Systemlords would call the ship back after the Asgard appeared.

aschen
July 30th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Thnx man...and cool...the gun still works!! hoo-ah!



Warning: Thar be alaskans out there!!
Alaskans in Antartica?

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Do we have an Guardian Probes left?

Elwe Singollo
July 30th, 2004, 01:36 PM
Weren't the people in Antarctica studying a drone?

Ugly Pig
July 30th, 2004, 01:50 PM
Weren't the people in Antarctica studying a drone?
Yep. At no point was it indicated that they'd run out of drones, however...

(SPOILERS for 'Rising')















...with the ZPM used to power the gate for the Atlantis expedition, they now have no power source for it.

And by the way, in 'Rising' McKay did mention that the ZPM was currently powering the outpost defenses. This indicates that the weapon is still operational as long as they have a ZPM hooked up to it.

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 02:05 PM
And that they have power to the ZPM right?

gwangung
July 31st, 2004, 11:06 PM
Yep. At no point was it indicated that they'd run out of drones, however...

(SPOILERS for 'Rising')















...with the ZPM used to power the gate for the Atlantis expedition, they now have no power source for it.

And by the way, in 'Rising' McKay did mention that the ZPM was currently powering the outpost defenses. This indicates that the weapon is still operational as long as they have a ZPM hooked up to it.

Actually, I think it was confirmed in ZERO HOUR...in RISING, it was indicated as a possibility...

Metonic
July 31st, 2004, 11:44 PM
as long as they have a powersource it should be operational. The Ship was destroyed by Baal but I belive Baal would of found out where it was headed before destroyign it but possibly feared that the Asgard were there as they were.

Iki-Ryo
July 31st, 2004, 11:55 PM
They have never even made it appear that the Ancient weapon was depleted, as a matter of fact O'Neill's reluctancy to use to ZPM to power the gate to atlantis in the first place would seem to point other wise, along with other hints that the weapon is still functioning from zero hour, like when they said they were going to send the booby trapped ZPM to Antartica and immagine what woudl have happened if they had pluged it into the chair.

I would bet that the weapon is self replenishing, possibly sometihng alond the lines of replicator technology from star trek, when powered the base re-supplies the drones, that would make the most sense to me ancient technology seems to be designed to be maintainence free, like Atlantis automaticaly adjusting its sheilds to compensate for the energy loss

Wildog6
August 1st, 2004, 10:21 PM
i think that somewhere along the lines major Carter is going to find out how to replenish the zpm otherwise baal would wipe us out

the daedalus project
March 18th, 2005, 11:50 AM
Sorry if this has been gone into before, but i had a quick check and couldn't see it anywhere in s8...

the ancient drone weapons seem to vary in power from lost city to its good to be king, i mean Jack uses hundred or thousands of them to take out nubys fleet (70 or so ha'taks??) in LC, but in IGtbK he only uses two to take down a ha'tak so surely he would have only needed to use a coupla hundred or so in LC...?

Also in LC they seem to have the ability to disassemble matter? they swarmed round a kull and it disappeared? whereas in atlantis they just seem to go boom alot...

Any thoughts?

Mr Prophet
March 18th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Sorry if this has been gone into before, but i had a quick check and couldn't see it anywhere in s8...

the ancient drone weapons seem to vary in power from lost city to its good to be king, i mean Jack uses hundred or thousands of them to take out nubys fleet (70 or so ha'taks??) in LC, but in IGtbK he only uses two to take down a ha'tak so surely he would have only needed to use a coupla hundred or so in LC...?

Also in LC they seem to have the ability to disassemble matter? they swarmed round a kull and it disappeared? whereas in atlantis they just seem to go boom alot...

Any thoughts?

Advanced, narrative guidance system and variable-effect plotnium warhead.

TechnoWraith
March 18th, 2005, 07:33 PM
Once the drone weapon at the Antarctic outpost was activated, Jack may not have had a way to control the number of drones released. It ran automatically or something. Or maybe Jack did, and he just sent all the drones out just to make sure the entire fleet was destroyed. But maybe in IGtbK the true power of the drone weapon is seen? Or it could be a glitch or an inconsistency.

Excali5033
March 18th, 2005, 08:41 PM
You could argue the point that the 'Atlantus' outpost's weapons were five million years out of date compared to a 'modern' Jumper's weapons. Though I prefer to just go with the idea that it looked REALLY cool. :-P

cobraR478
March 18th, 2005, 09:26 PM
My guess is he had more control over that individual drone than the thousands in the Lost City. So he thought "hit something important" when he fired, and it did.

IMForeman
March 18th, 2005, 09:54 PM
Since Jack was on the verge of death at this point, his control might have been less than optimal. The difference in the effect of the weapon on the Kull and the Wraith in Defiant One could be something to do with the expectation of the usere... Jack had knowledge of what they can and can't do in Lost City, whereas Markham (and Jack normally, and Sheppard) would expect a weapon to go boom.

-IMF

alz0rz
March 19th, 2005, 07:40 AM
It may have taken more drones to be released because of the size of anubis's fleet and his superior shields, i highly doubt in IGTBK that the shield of Ares' ha'tak was even up - but it was still a weak weak Ha'tak compared to what Jack had to fight off in LC.

Avalar
March 19th, 2005, 07:41 AM
Remember that in Lost City, Pt.2, a lot of the Drones that Jack sent up there basically plowed right through Anubis' ships. If you look at the final scene, you see a ton of Drones exiting Anubis' ship after going right through it, so it probably didn't take that many to destroy it.

Plus, in IGtBK, didn't Jack hit the Ha'tak's "primary systems" or something?

Magnus
March 19th, 2005, 08:25 AM
Sorry if this has been gone into before, but i had a quick check and couldn't see it anywhere in s8...

the ancient drone weapons seem to vary in power from lost city to its good to be king, i mean Jack uses hundred or thousands of them to take out nubys fleet (70 or so ha'taks??) in LC, but in IGtbK he only uses two to take down a ha'tak so surely he would have only needed to use a coupla hundred or so in LC...?
It's Jack, why wouldn't he hit Anubis with everything he's got. Nothing wrong with overkill... it's Jack. Also, there were many ships, getting all or most of them at once is better than letting many escape in hyperspace.

Also in LC they seem to have the ability to disassemble matter? they swarmed round a kull and it disappeared? whereas in atlantis they just seem to go boom alot...

Any thoughts?
The drone's probably don't disassemble matter. They go boom in SGA because the ships they attack explode.

Daz
March 19th, 2005, 08:51 AM
I like the idea that in Lost City they acted different to other times as Jack knew with the knowledge downloaded that they could do more than just blow up, but at other times, they seem like missiles, so to shep and jack, they would expect that to happen, being used to Earth missiles blowing up.

Also, if you think your planet is about to be destroyed, you along with it, and you're sitting in a chair with thousands of drones at your diposal, you wouldn't sit there and think ''Oo, maybe save some for later.'', you'd empty the whole friggin lot.

If you were sitting in a bunker with your M16, a load of iraqis run in. Do you empty the whole magazine and do as much damage as you can before you get killed yourself? Or do you sit there on semi-auto, pop off a few rounds because you 'might need some for later'?

Ancient 1
March 20th, 2005, 03:48 PM
I think Jack just had enough mental capacity to release the drones, not control their number, and this did a lot to drain the ZPM. The drones, themselves, seem to have an adaptable intelligence as witnessed in "Rising." Sheppard fired the weapon and as soon as it launched it did a 180 to go target a wraith dart...or so it seemed.

Dotus5
March 20th, 2005, 05:56 PM
So what happened to all of the extra drones after the Lost City? Jack most likely deactivated them but what happened to them after that? Burn up in the atmosphere? And are the reusable?

Magnus
March 22nd, 2005, 11:09 AM
So what happened to all of the extra drones after the Lost City? Jack most likely deactivated them but what happened to them after that? Burn up in the atmosphere? And are the reusable?
That's a good point, in Lost City they give the impression they tear through the ships, not explode. So the question is, what happened to them after the fleet was in pieces. A drone should be able to withstand uncontrolled re-entry to the atmosphere. I think those would be reusable, it would make them a more effective weapon.

Steam
March 22nd, 2005, 12:30 PM
They are Uber powerful, would love to have couple of those bad boys at my disposal :P

Freyrs
March 22nd, 2005, 12:41 PM
Any idea on how the drones are powered? They seem to glow and some sort of guidance. We know that the chair must control the guidance and they gain their initial power from the ZPM but what about when they are in flight?

Magnus
March 22nd, 2005, 08:15 PM
Any idea on how the drones are powered? They seem to glow and some sort of guidance. We know that the chair must control the guidance and they gain their initial power from the ZPM but what about when they are in flight?
There is no telling how much energy was left in the ZPM before getting used in Lost City Pt2. Since the drones have some form of internal energy source, there shouldn't be too much energy used from the ZPM itself. They don't necessarily gain initial power from the ZPM, we only know it's needed to power the chair/outpost. It'd be interesting to find out just how the drones power themselves, though it's probably too advanced for the Tau'ri to ever figure out.

Enokrad
March 23rd, 2005, 12:48 AM
Another thing is that Anubis ships where equipped with far better shields that where of ancient design. The Asgard weapons had minimal affect to them. On the other hand, in good to be king, those ships had standard Goa’uld shields and thus more susceptible to get penetrated by just 2 drones (add the lucky hit part). Still i didn't mind the Overkill in LC as someone described it, as well as the fact that it looked much cooler, don't u think?

TheWarrior
March 23rd, 2005, 12:59 AM
It did look alot cooler.

I think it has to do with alot of elements all mentioned above ranging from weaker shields in It's Good To Be King and the fact the PJ was a newer PJ and the Ancients might have upgraded their drones while in Pegasus to take on the Wraith.

So on Earth we have the standard issue drones and in Pegasus they upgraded them to fight off the Wraith.
I think its a combination of everything really.

airfro
March 23rd, 2005, 02:18 AM
The drones on earth are 50 million years out of date and could have been used to clear land and such so maybe they had a different purpose to the ones in atlantis

the daedalus project
March 23rd, 2005, 03:53 AM
a theory i have about the igtbk drones is that jack, after many years fighting the go'auld knew where to hit a ha'tak to do the most damage, so the drone went to that target.

but that said a mixture of jack and the ancient repositry, should have known the weaknesses of the ha'taks, including the ancient hybrid shields. However, thousands of drones looks awesome and makes for a much better season finale!

As for the comment in atlantis they go boom cos the ships they hit explode, what about the wraith in the defiant one? the wraith generally dont explode unless you include suspicion :cool:

YodaMate
March 25th, 2005, 05:30 AM
As has been pointed out, the hatak (it's Good to be King) would definitely have been an older model (the same type of hatak used by Apophis, not the really old type used by Ra which had a top speed at ten times the speed of light) and hence would have had older shields.

This is because the Goa'uld in question was fleeing Ba'al and hence not a part of his forces (only Ba'al and Anubis have the newest model hatak).

My personal theory on the difference between the shields is that Anubis used Ancient knowledge to make the shields work on ALL (or at least more) energy frequencies. Note that the Tollan ion cannon blast used to sail right through, seemingly unaffected by, the shields but it couldn't penetrate Anubis' ones. The Tollans grasp of science was beyond that of the Goa'uld, hence i suspect that the cannon's effectiveness was based on a better understanding of physical laws and the universe rather than sheer power. Thus, the ion cannon worked on a different frequency if you will to 'normal' weapons and could bypass the shields.

The Asgard, who also have a better scientific understanding than the Goa'uld, likely also incorporate that knowledge as part of their beam weapons. In the Season 5 finale, their sensors could penetrate the shields but their transporter beam couldn't. When Anubis ringed in, the hatak changed its shielding frequency to allow ring transport whilst still blocking the Asgard transport beam (presumably on a different frequency). Though they couldn't beam in, Jack and Teal'c used their own rings to penetrate the shield at this time. It is also likely that Anubis uses power more efficiently than other Goa'uld and his shields were physically more powerful as well, as the shields took some damage from the Asgard beam weapons but not enough to break them.

Now we come to the Ancient drones. Though they clearly have a physical 'normal' appearance, given the Ancients' absolute scientific superiority, they likely have components affecting other frequencies and maybe even sub-space (we have yet to see a shield capable of blocking sub-space communication, or so i think).

The upshot of all this is that Ancient drones are far more likely to be affected by Anubis/Ba'al's multi-frequency shields, hence reducing their effectiveness. Jack threw thousands of drones at the armada in order to overwhelm the shields and manage to have the desired effect of tearing all 30 odd vessels apart. When Jack sent a handful at a less-well shielded they easily bypassed the shields and were guided to the naquadah generators (or glider bays, or any other source of naquadah) and the subsequent explosion completely destroyed the hatak.

The case of the Kull warriors vs. the Wraith getting blown up by the drone is actually identical : the Kull wear energy-absorbent armour, so simply exploding is not going to cut it (and the armour also likely saps the energy of the drones as well) and it took a few to overwhelm their suits. Whereas the Wraith had no such protection.

So, the PTB have been consistent in their portrayal of the drones' power. To sum up, better protection (shields, armour) = more drones required. No good protection = single or handful of drones required.

Wandering Tamer
March 25th, 2005, 06:36 AM
Interesting point. I agree with it and what others have said about it being Jack O'Neill. We know he's still himself to a degree even when his mind is falling appart, so he was probably just unloading all his frustration onto Anubis without mercy. :D

Thor's Pal
April 11th, 2005, 05:40 AM
Ok, they said that there were x number of drones left in Altanis. Why did they use them against the darts instead of sending them against the motherships? We've seen that the drones have the ability to hit ships in orbit, and by taking out the motherships they would only have to take out the darts that were already flying around-and the wraith that beamed down, would have nowhere to reatreat to.

Wass
April 11th, 2005, 05:49 AM
They may use them in Siege part 3, if remember correctly they did not have enough power to use the drones.

Ganjaman
April 11th, 2005, 06:30 AM
No they used up all their drones on the first wave, they only had about two dozen drones left in the chair anyway. I think it was a case that Shep had no choice he had to stop the darts before they did too much damage. This used up their generator as well, it had no power left to control the puddle jumpers.

iLemon
August 31st, 2005, 07:44 AM
What are Drones exactly?

Qasim
August 31st, 2005, 07:48 AM
Yellow things that can fly

The dictionary says: Drones are male honeybees. They are produced when the queen bee lays unfertilized eggs. This type of reproduction is called parthenogenesis as the queen and drones share the same genes. Drones are haploid in its origin with 16 chromosomes.

I doubt that helps though

Perhaps this is better: An autonomous and automatic UAV carrying a mechanism to sustain stable flight on an uncorrected steady heading, and usually programmed to function as a target. Its course is pre-programmed and cannot be altered during flight.

or this: A flying robot. Often used to denote any semi-autonomous machine or program.

For more see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Adrone&btnG=Search

According to the omnipedia http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/links/droneweaponancient.shtml


Extremely lethal weapon created by the Ancients that, when activated, will automatically seek out a target to destroy. Not unlike a squid in its dormant appearance, drones are controlled by the mind of an operator in a central chamber, or aboard a Puddle Jumper. Multiple drones often operate in tandem with one another, and they are able to operate in space or in an atmosphere, and can easily penetrate the most advanced Goa'uld shield technology.

cozzerob
August 31st, 2005, 08:31 AM
yeh - that's basically it. small killin robots (that look like squid because when you can do anything, it's the style that counts...) that can either rip through enemies, disintergrate them or explode on contact.

They are often used in groups, ie, 2 or three at once, or a whole 'fleet' (?) of them to wipe out an incoming armada

nimitz
August 31st, 2005, 08:51 AM
Drones can be used as a missile or as a superweapon when used with hundreds/thousands of others.When used as a superweapon they have the ability to dematerilse objects but when used on their own they explode on impact to create the maxumim amount of damage to the target.When used by a person of weak mind they start to think for themselves.Drones have advanced sheild penetrating abilites(best seen on stargate so far) and are exepctionally fast and maneuvarble.

Indum'kra
August 31st, 2005, 08:55 AM
Hopefully they'll discover the secrets behind the drone and build some of their own.

JanusAncient
August 31st, 2005, 09:24 AM
Building drones, fine and dandy, but if they make a zpm, I'll no longer watch the show, squids are just fine to see, especially when as in "Lost City, Part 2" they reach out like a hand, and destroy Anubis' fleet.

iLemon
August 31st, 2005, 10:19 AM
They wont be able to make a ZPM, they're very advanced and we still barely understand them.
It'd be great if we could build drones though, we'd be almost invincible. All we'll need is a more powerful ship than the PJ.

Qasim
August 31st, 2005, 10:39 AM
Aurora?

The General
August 31st, 2005, 11:31 AM
Aurora?
And?

Its not like they HAVE to use drones.

Infact, It would make no sense to place a depleatable weapon on a ship that can mount Ammoless weapons like a laser.

Qasim
August 31st, 2005, 11:34 AM
We know nothing at all about the ship at the moment so we cant speculate on what would be sensible and what wouldnt

Three PhDs
August 31st, 2005, 12:56 PM
And?

Its not like they HAVE to use drones.

Infact, It would make no sense to place a depleatable weapon on a ship that can mount Ammoless weapons like a laser.Lasers do have ammunition, it's called energy.

The General
August 31st, 2005, 01:02 PM
Lasers do have ammunition, it's called energy.
Of which the ancients are in no short supply in any respect.

And energy is not an ammunition. It can be used for so much more than a weapon.

Three PhDs
August 31st, 2005, 01:03 PM
And energy is not an ammunition. It can be used for so much more than a weapon.So what does the laser weapon fire? What is depleted when it fires?

The General
August 31st, 2005, 01:16 PM
So what does the laser weapon fire? What is depleted when it fires?
No.

May I refffer you to Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Ammunition).

Qasim
August 31st, 2005, 01:22 PM
Considering that we dont use laser weapons here on Earth I doubt the dictionary would have much to say about them

The General
August 31st, 2005, 01:27 PM
True, but it is rather specific.

In this scenario, I think energy would be more of an fuel than a ammunition.

Qasim
August 31st, 2005, 01:35 PM
It would still get depleted though

McKavanaugh forever!
August 31st, 2005, 01:44 PM
Energy would be both fuel and ammunition, it needs energy to power it and it also needs energy to fire.

The General
August 31st, 2005, 01:45 PM
But it doesn't technically count as "ammo."

And it technically doesn't count as "fuel" either, so we are both wrong.

EnigmaNZ
August 31st, 2005, 02:50 PM
Laser, google coil laser, the megawatt chemical laser used in the 747 to kill icbm's, it has enough chemicals to fire 40 times iirc. A smaller 100Kw version is being installed on the latest spectre AC-130 (hercules with a 105mm howitzer, 40mm cannon, 20mm gatling gun, and now a 100Kw laser) Also google solid state laser , the version the air force is working on to fit to the joint strike fighter in it's 100Kw version. It will be powered by a generator running off the main turbine, and will dump waste heat into the fuel tanks. A 100Kw laser will cut through 1/2 inch of steel per second at ranges in the 6-8 Km range (weather permitting). It should be able to kill goa'uld and wraith fighters. And as long as it has electrical power, it works. Another is the tactical high energy laser, being developed by the israelis with US help, to shot down missiles and rockets and even mortars and shells. It is chemical but different to the coil laser, and can fire 60 times before reloading. Another chemical is the mid infrared advanced chemical laser (MIRACL). Happy googling.

Drones, interesting little buggers. gravimetric propulsion, highly manuevurable, seem to be able to seek out the ships weak points and hit them to cause maximum damage. I think they seek out the main reactor, hit that and the resulting explosion takes out the ship. Ha'taks have 1 big central naquadah generator, hit that and BOOM! Possible defence is to do a Borg, and have large numbers of small generators distributed around the ship. Hitting one does localised damage only. As to shield piercing, either all shields work on the same principle, and the drone looks for the frequency window that allows the ship to recieve sensor data, or it uses something like the tollen phase shifting tech, that allows it to slide past shields and armour, then phase back into normal space once inside the hull. It certainly had no difficulty passing through the thick armour of a ha'tak or aubis's supership.

The General
August 31st, 2005, 03:54 PM
As for the original question.

A list of so far observed features.

-Exreeme(sp?) manuverability
-Pinpoint seeking
-Warhead
-Disintegration effect
-Shield effect

Qasim
September 1st, 2005, 02:01 AM
The correct spelling is Extreme

iLemon
September 1st, 2005, 02:36 AM
Can Drones seek out a ship thats cloaked?

Qasim
September 1st, 2005, 02:54 AM
I would say yes as ancient scanners can detect cloaked ships

JanusAncient
September 1st, 2005, 09:35 AM
Wouldn't the user have to be aware of the cloaked ship, to see a drone flying around aimlessly, how funny would that be, off into the vast regions of space it goes.

cozzerob
September 1st, 2005, 09:41 AM
that would be amusing. I liked the time the drone came after the helicopter... And anyway, just because the ancients have the tech to detect cloaked ships, doesn't mean that the drones can...

If you need to shoot a cloaked ship then you can your ship + detector to aim at the target, but the drones don't necessarily have the ability to detect cloaked ships themselves...

deltsigpun
October 28th, 2005, 05:46 PM
If drones were the ancients only weapons, it seems that there should be plans on how to build them in the ancient database or what makes even more sense that since they use so many at one time there should a lab or manufacturing facility to make drones. If one exsits wouldnt it be in the database? Cant the Asguard analyze a drone and figure out how to biuld them, they seem better than asguard weapons.

VironX
October 28th, 2005, 05:48 PM
indeed.................

captain keys
October 28th, 2005, 06:52 PM
indeed.................
hahahahaha.... yes this has been talked about for a long time and noooooooo one knows so until its in the show all we have are our theorys

helio9
October 28th, 2005, 07:55 PM
Its one of those plot things. If they can build as many drones as they want, especially if they can build drone launchers, then its far too easy. And drones aren't the only ancient weapons, the ancient satellite used a beam weapon that was also very powerful, it took out a wraith ship in one shot.

JanusAncient
October 28th, 2005, 10:24 PM
We've yet to see everything, that the chair platform is capable of, manufacturing could be one of its functions.

Simonthefurling
October 29th, 2005, 07:27 AM
On the topic of drones if you think about it there a whole plot device in themselves, TPTB made the ancients use projectile weaponary, and furthermore weaponary that can run out so Atlantis Exped. couldnt kick everyones asses. I mean drones can slaughter hive ships, but normal weapons could still beat hive ships (wraith use normal energy weapons and ancients are more advanced so...), whats the difference of beating the Wraith 2 times over instead of 5 times over? Heh sorry im not a big fan of drones as the greatest weapon of the greatest race, they just seem so...flawed.

But yeah, i think developing asgard like energy weapons that dont expire would be more useful.

freyr's mother
October 29th, 2005, 07:50 AM
If there is a manufacturing plant, it would have been activated by now. It must be a problem with not being able to obtain the raw materials for building.

Wraith_Hunter
October 29th, 2005, 08:19 AM
I asked Joe Mallozzi a question on the Drones a few months ago. He said that there would be more info on the Drones in the second half of the season. I'm thinking that'll be in 'The Tower'. So hopefully they will throw us something worthwhile on it.

NotAscended
October 29th, 2005, 09:48 AM
On the topic of drones if you think about it there a whole plot device in themselves, TPTB made the ancients use projectile weaponary, and furthermore weaponary that can run out so Atlantis Exped. couldnt kick everyones asses. I mean drones can slaughter hive ships, but normal weapons could still beat hive ships (wraith use normal energy weapons and ancients are more advanced so...), whats the difference of beating the Wraith 2 times over instead of 5 times over? Heh sorry im not a big fan of drones as the greatest weapon of the greatest race, they just seem so...flawed.

But yeah, i think developing asgard like energy weapons that dont expire would be more useful.

I agree, the drones are a flawed weapon. It's already been established that while they can wipe out hive ships, they didn't help the Ancients win the war! A much more powerful weapon or weapons will be needed to beat down the Wraith and keep them from just coming back.

SGRanger06
October 29th, 2005, 09:53 AM
I agree, the drones are a flawed weapon. It's already been established that while they can wipe out hive ships, they didn't help the Ancients win the war! A much more powerful weapon or weapons will be needed to beat down the Wraith and keep them from just coming back.

The Ancients didn't lose the war because the drone weapons weren't powerfull enough, they lost it becuase of overwhelming numbers. They won individual battles (with help from the drones albet). The Ancients also had energy based weapons (defense satellites, "trinity" cannon), it's not new tech they needed, it was more numbers.

Simonthefurling
October 29th, 2005, 12:07 PM
The Ancients didn't lose the war because the drone weapons weren't powerfull enough, they lost it becuase of overwhelming numbers. They won individual battles (with help from the drones albet). The Ancients also had energy based weapons (defense satellites, "trinity" cannon), it's not new tech they needed, it was more numbers.

You would have to wonder why a satellite like weapon isnt on Atlantis, for there not to be one doesnt make any sense to me except for the plot. But yeah, still thats a little off topic ;)

helio9
October 29th, 2005, 02:01 PM
It all goes back to that. Of course, Atlantis should have drone production ability. Of course, if you're going to invest so much in a city, then you'd have a couple different types of weapons (ie beam weapons to). But then it would be too easy.

SGRanger06
October 29th, 2005, 02:08 PM
I've said this in a different thread. It's important to remember Atlantis is a city, not a battlecruiser. While it's important to have offensive and defensive capabilities, it's main function is to be a city.

Ascended Times.2
October 29th, 2005, 10:33 PM
If you've got weapons, that *assuming here* you can manufactoor at you're need, and it can destroy anything the wraith or for that matter, anything else can throw at you, why do you need anything else? *Note, just taking up the other flag here*

helio9
October 30th, 2005, 12:46 AM
I agree, the drones are a flawed weapon. It's already been established that while they can wipe out hive ships, they didn't help the Ancients win the war! A much more powerful weapon or weapons will be needed to beat down the Wraith and keep them from just coming back.
The flaw in the weapons is that they are limited in number, and can't be produced easily. If you swarm one ancient warship with 30 hive ships, then sure it'll start blowing away hive ships left and right, but when the drones are gone, the ship is screwed.

But on the show, there has been no defense whatsoever against them. Both Goauld ships and Wraith ships are highly vulnerable to them.

morph166955
January 6th, 2006, 11:09 AM
so now that deadalus is traveling between earth and atlantis on a regular basis i had a thought. we know that the outpost in antartica has a decent stock of drones left. we also know atlantis is low on drones minus the ones they got from the tower . why cant they take a few from earth and transport them to atlantis to help them out a little. most likely there are a few hundred or more left on earth since there was most likely a full stock when the ancients left since they probably never had a real use for them back on the milkyway.

next thought...the ancient out post on proc-la-roush...they had a control chair also, reason would say there are some drones left there also. deadalus or prometheus could easily get there, beam them all up with the asgard beams, and divvy them up between earth and atlantis.

just a thought...thats all.

NakedJehutyV2
January 6th, 2006, 11:58 AM
they prolly need those drones. they could use a mark2 naq generater

Steve_the_Wraith
January 6th, 2006, 12:11 PM
We don't know how many Drones earth has left - they could have all been used up in Lost City



McKAY: We're down to just a few dozen drones.

EVERETT: And you're just finding this out now?

McKAY: Look, there was no way of determining that until the chair was initialised and that was only possible once the Mark Two was tied in.

EVERETT: The chair in Antarctica controlled thousands of the damned things!


Controlled as in past tense - the earth drones could have all been used up


Regarding Proculos Tanous wasn't that destroyed by Lava after SG-1 removed the ZPM

jazz!
January 6th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Earth may want their own stash of those squids - Just In Case.

morph166955
January 6th, 2006, 05:42 PM
thats true...we dont know that earth didnt use them all up. the only reason i thought that they had more was in season 8 ep 1 when weir was doing the negotiations i remember something being said about having to use the weapon again which makes me tend to believe that they had more left over so that they could fire it again. as for proclaroush the shield had collapsed many years before they got there or i believe so if im remembering the ep right. and even at that point the drones would prob be in one of the underground storage areas similar to the one on earth so in theory the asgard beams should be able to beam them out even if they cant go down there and pick them up...right?

SmallTimePerson
January 7th, 2006, 02:40 AM
they prolly need those drones. they could use a mark2 naq generater
the mark 2 isnt very stable, watch siege part2 when sheppard and rodney are at the chair.

Controlled as in past tense - the earth drones could have all been used up
no more ZPM=chair cant go on=no drones popping out of the ground=no more chair controlling drones.

WraithWarrior
January 7th, 2006, 08:55 AM
Earth may need the one they have, which I know is what everyone has said, but maybe Atlantis' scientists (or even Earth could send some more scientists) could experiment/research with the drones and reverse engineer some more - Just a thought, I mean they may be too complicated, which wouldn't suprise me, but hey, they could at least try :mckayanime09:

NakedJehutyV2
January 7th, 2006, 11:13 AM
it still worked that first time

WraithWarrior
January 7th, 2006, 11:17 AM
it still worked that first time

:tealcanime49:

Varrok
January 8th, 2006, 09:51 AM
I think it won't take long before the expedition finds out how the drones work, just like with much of the other systems (like puddlejumpers) it takes time to understand them, you can already see the understanding advancing, compare "thirty eight minutes" with the second season 2's "Grace Under Pressure".

Also an interesting fact, the drones don't have to be chair controled as McKay was able to fire one using his laptop, this might be a sign that they're advancing in understanding the technology.

NakedJehutyV2
January 8th, 2006, 02:30 PM
learning to shoot it and learning to control it are completely different

Prior_of_the_Ori
January 8th, 2006, 02:52 PM
Shot it was what Beckett did and control it was what O'Niell and Sheppard did.

NakedJehutyV2
January 8th, 2006, 09:29 PM
WITHOUT THE FRICKEN CONTROL CHAIR!!!!

with the laptop like wussy mckay did in the tower

they need that chair with without it'll go anywhere

jazz!
January 9th, 2006, 04:44 AM
It is true that the weapon, the chair and human counterpart need to work togeather ( Man and Machine ) so as to do any useful damage.

However it may be possible to control them, like nearly everything else in the SG Universe, via a Laptop.

The chair is just a great interface to control thousands of those little buggers.

WraithWarrior
January 9th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I think it won't take long before the expedition finds out how the drones work, just like with much of the other systems (like puddlejumpers) it takes time to understand them, you can already see the understanding advancing, compare "thirty eight minutes" with the second season 2's "Grace Under Pressure".

Also an interesting fact, the drones don't have to be chair controled as McKay was able to fire one using his laptop, this might be a sign that they're advancing in understanding the technology.

Thats true, so maybe they will eventually learn enough about them to reproduce many of them, probly be a while but for now they will just have to do with what they have and have to look around for some more.


Shot it was what Beckett did and control it was what O'Niell and Sheppard did.

Beckett only shot it and didnt control it because he is not military personnel and was scared about getting onto the chair. O'Neill and Sheppard controlled it because they understand about weapons, maybe not the drones, but they are more inclined with weapons than Beckett

Stevos
January 9th, 2006, 11:25 AM
The Wraith can shoot down a nuke without a problem, so why can't they shoot down the drones as they come.

I realise if you shoot hundreds of them at them this may be difficult, however a hive ship appears to have hundreds of darts, each of which could shot down the drones as they approach.

They don't appear to fly that fast either.

Qasim
January 9th, 2006, 11:32 AM
Maybe because they are so maneuverable?

immhotep
January 9th, 2006, 11:46 AM
well depends what drones were talking about and in what mode...in TLC the drones were almost out of phase unshootable energy bolts...in allantis they are more energy weapon-like, exploding on impact..
the earth drones seem to be must more lethal than the PG drones, as to why the wraith dont shoot at em, they probley know theyll miss...plus the drones are usualy fired from behind and so they cnat aim at them.

RA the sun god
January 9th, 2006, 02:46 PM
also the wraith dont shoot down nukes the darts ram them and the darts wuld also ram the pg drones to protect the hive

SmallTimePerson
January 9th, 2006, 06:50 PM
WITHOUT THE FRICKEN CONTROL CHAIR!!!!

when mckay fired the drone he still used the ancient systems, the tablet pc he was using was merely an interface so he could understand the system easier

AsgardCarnage
January 9th, 2006, 08:22 PM
also the wraith dont shoot down nukes the darts ram them and the darts wuld also ram the pg drones to protect the hive


we see a dart shoot a nuke missle out in the seige part 3, the dont always just ram into stuff, they do shoot. but a nuke is a big slow target.

And we havn't actully seen drones attack a hive ship only darts. and they were coming from behind most of the time so the darts couldn't shoot at them. and the few times they have come from the font it has been a supprise attack, the jumper uncloaks and fires the fast moving drones so maybe no time to react.

or the drones in the PG are like the milkyway one and sort of phase in and out and the wraith have learnt that drones can't be stopped untill they reach their target so dont bother trying anymore.

morph166955
January 9th, 2006, 08:27 PM
well depends what drones were talking about and in what mode...in TLC the drones were almost out of phase unshootable energy bolts...in allantis they are more energy weapon-like, exploding on impact..
the earth drones seem to be must more lethal than the PG drones, as to why the wraith dont shoot at em, they probley know theyll miss...plus the drones are usualy fired from behind and so they cnat aim at them.
How do we know there "out of phase"...i dont remember this being explained at all in any episode...i just understood it to be that they were impacting and blowing the hell outa what ever they hit and there were just so many of them that it seemed like they were just punching holes.

Seldini
January 9th, 2006, 08:30 PM
And we havn't actully seen drones attack a hive ship only darts. and they were coming from behind most of the time so the darts couldn't shoot at them. and the few times they have come from the font it has been a supprise attack, the jumper uncloaks and fires the fast moving drones so maybe no time to react.


In Condemned, we see a drone hit a Wraith Cruiser and the cruiser was helpless, didn't try to stop the drone, granted that it was from close range.

AsgardCarnage
January 9th, 2006, 08:40 PM
How do we know there "out of phase"...i dont remember this being explained at all in any episode...i just understood it to be that they were impacting and blowing the hell outa what ever they hit and there were just so many of them that it seemed like they were just punching holes.

I dont think it has been stated anywhere how drones work. they could have just been punching holes in anubisus ship in "the lost city" but the fact they had no effect on the sheild tends me to think they had some kind of phase thing going on as well.

the sheild didn't even glow once to show it had been knocked out they went striaght into the ship and took it out. same as in morbius.

and good point about the thing in that spoiler space, i'll have to re watch that ep

Seldini
January 9th, 2006, 08:41 PM
We can clearly control the flight of drones, McKay got one to bore a hole straight up out of the ground, I'd consider that some good aiming, maybe we can only control a limited number of them because it would take a computer to control each drone individually. But I don't see why we couldn't strap a drone launcher to the Daedalus, even if it could only fire one or two at a time, it'd be a nice offensive weapon.

CYBEREAGLE19
January 9th, 2006, 09:12 PM
you dont need the chair to control the drones, look at the puddle jumpers, imagine if we salvaged the drone system from a damaged puddle jumper and integarted it on the deddy, just like you have gould rings on the prommie and deaddy, imagine a control chair

immhotep
January 10th, 2006, 12:40 AM
yes i was meaning to say. in TLC the drones seem, and this is JMO on it, they seem to be able to blow stuff up, then ocntinue on, perhaps its to do with them being used as a swarm rather than individual 'bullets'.
the swarm version of the drones just wrapped itself around the kulls and destroyed them, there was no explosions or anything, so maybe the swarm version is more of an energy transfer weapon, the drones transfer the energy in to the target adn its vaporise...rather than it bieng a direct energy shoot nad explode weapon as in the PG/PJ.

WraithWarrior
January 10th, 2006, 01:46 AM
We can clearly control the flight of drones, McKay got one to bore a hole straight up out of the ground, I'd consider that some good aiming, maybe we can only control a limited number of them because it would take a computer to control each drone individually. But I don't see why we couldn't strap a drone launcher to the Daedalus, even if it could only fire one or two at a time, it'd be a nice offensive weapon.

WOW, just imagine it. The Deadulus firing its rail guns and other weapons, firing hundreds of drones followed by the SPOILER*** beaming a naq warhead into one of the hive ships***

I dont think that would work though because we havent even got enough drones, never mind the thing that fires it, chair or whatever, however if they did manage to put drones that are capable of being fired on the Deadulus it would be amazin

AsgardCarnage
January 10th, 2006, 01:47 AM
i think alot of ancient technology is very subjective depending on who is controlling it.

at that time jack had all the ancient knoladge in his head he knew exactly how the drones were best used, while shepard has no idea what they really are. my guess is when shep is controlling the drones he thinks of them as missiles, 1 drone kills 1 target and blows up on impact. while jack didn't tell them to explode on impact. if that makes sence

Bacardi
January 10th, 2006, 02:07 AM
makes a lot of sense actually. good theory

Heaven
January 10th, 2006, 09:05 AM
I think the amount of damage a drone can inflict is directly proportional to the power source controlling it.
pj have small power source so the drones are like missiles
same with the mk2
but with a zpm they cut through stuff like butter and keep going

as to why wraith don't shoot down drones.. maybe they're just too fast

Seldini
January 10th, 2006, 09:37 AM
I think the amount of damage a drone can inflict is directly proportional to the power source controlling it.
pj have small power source so the drones are like missiles
same with the mk2
but with a zpm they cut through stuff like butter and keep going

as to why wraith don't shoot down drones.. maybe they're just too fast

Nah, cuz in SG-1, It's Good To Be King, a PJ-launched drone attack cuts up a Ha'tak, didn't explode on contact.

creed462
January 10th, 2006, 09:57 AM
I wouldn't be surprise if there is a drone factory on Alantis

Heaven
January 10th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Nah, cuz in SG-1, It's Good To Be King, a PJ-launched drone attack cuts up a Ha'tak, didn't explode on contact.

that was the time machine's power source.

WraithWarrior
January 10th, 2006, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't be surprise if there is a drone factory on Alantis

Probably the only place they havent thought of looking, however even if they had thought of looking all the way round Atlantis, it would take a long time because of the size

jazz!
January 10th, 2006, 12:16 PM
Yep.
I wouldn't be surprised either. Atlantis is a city.
I am sure it was designed to be self-sustaining.....

jburrows
January 10th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Well they could be hard to detect on sensors. Also spoilers for atlantis season 2 tower as well as first episode of season 1 of atlantis. In the episode where john sheppard and jack was in helicopter the drone went right thru ice. in the tower episode when rodney fired the drone weapon it the drone appeared it make a small tunnel in a path where it went. The matter that was there before it created the tunnel seemed to disapear without a trace. Who knows what a weapon hitting it would do it it and wraith may done that in the past and decided not to do it again. Also a note about drone acting like a missle. It could possible most of the time drone will tunnel thru an object such as a ship. However depending on what it could damage something like a reactor which could cause an explosion which could destroy or damage the drone.

newtrekker
January 10th, 2006, 02:17 PM
Well they could be hard to detect on sensors. Also spoilers for atlantis season 2 tower as well as first episode of season 1 of atlantis. In the episode where john sheppard and jack was in helicopter the drone went right thru ice. in the tower episode when rodney fired the drone weapon it the drone appeared it make a small tunnel in a path where it went. The matter that was there before it created the tunnel seemed to disapear without a trace. Who knows what a weapon hitting it would do it it and wraith may done that in the past and decided not to do it again. Also a note about drone acting like a missle. It could possible most of the time drone will tunnel thru an object such as a ship. However depending on what it could damage something like a reactor which could cause an explosion which could destroy or damage the drone.

I agree, probably the Wraith can't detect them.

Erised
January 10th, 2006, 02:57 PM
The Wraith can shoot down a nuke without a problem, so why can't they shoot down the drones as they come.

I realise if you shoot hundreds of them at them this may be difficult, however a hive ship appears to have hundreds of darts, each of which could shot down the drones as they approach.

They don't appear to fly that fast either.
because it's the ancient's :p

Mio
January 10th, 2006, 03:15 PM
The drones are pretty tough when active. In The Tower....
McKay used one to create a hole up through the ceiling and through a lot of rock.

Billz
January 10th, 2006, 03:49 PM
The way the drones work is dependent on the person firing them. Like say, when jack used the drones in Antartica, he was psychically (sp) 'telling' the drones to only hit Anubis's fleet because thats the way that some Ancient technology works, mental interaction. Its the same with the drones from the puddlejumpers, mental interaction. The drones are so maneuverable because the person controlling them is 'telling' them which way to go, how fast to move and who to hit.

Avatar28
January 11th, 2006, 02:41 AM
i think alot of ancient technology is very subjective depending on who is controlling it.

at that time jack had all the ancient knoladge in his head he knew exactly how the drones were best used, while shepard has no idea what they really are. my guess is when shep is controlling the drones he thinks of them as missiles, 1 drone kills 1 target and blows up on impact. while jack didn't tell them to explode on impact. if that makes sence

Man, that makes more sense than any other theory I've heard on them. I think that absolutely you're right.

Sheppard is a fighter pilot, right? What do fighter pilots use to shoot down other planes? 99% of the time it's going to be a missile these days. Sooo, how would a seasoned fighter pilot instinctively think of something that he fires and has it's own guidance system to home in on the target? Right, a missile. And he would, of course, expect it to explode because that's what missiles do. So the ancient computer systems, being good like they are pick up on this expectation to explode and instructs the drones to do just that, though it's mostly a waste of their abilities.

O'Neil, NOT being a fighter pilot wouldn't have that same preconceived notion, to say nothing of being under the ancient influence. In his case due to the ancient knowledge, he would understand how they're intended to work and use them to their full capabilities.

Bacardi
January 11th, 2006, 05:59 AM
Man, that makes more sense than any other theory I've heard on them. I think that absolutely you're right.

Sheppard is a fighter pilot, right? What do fighter pilots use to shoot down other planes? 99% of the time it's going to be a missile these days. Sooo, how would a seasoned fighter pilot instinctively think of something that he fires and has it's own guidance system to home in on the target? Right, a missile. And he would, of course, expect it to explode because that's what missiles do. So the ancient computer systems, being good like they are pick up on this expectation to explode and instructs the drones to do just that, though it's mostly a waste of their abilities.

O'Neil, NOT being a fighter pilot wouldn't have that same preconceived notion, to say nothing of being under the ancient influence. In his case due to the ancient knowledge, he would understand how they're intended to work and use them to their full capabilities.

o'neill has plenty of fighter pilot experience. it would have been the ancient knowledge taking over his mind that wud have supressed the notion of drones working like exploding missiles.

WraithWarrior
January 11th, 2006, 07:54 AM
Yep.
I wouldn't be surprised either. Atlantis is a city.
I am sure it was designed to be self-sustaining.....

Yeah cuz other wise they would only have so many drones and never be able to make any more and have to get rid of the chair and the device that fires them

beale947
January 11th, 2006, 08:02 AM
The Drone Makay Fired on 'Condemmed, was fired, with the laptop, Hooked up to the Jumpers computer, that is why he could to it.

morph166955
January 11th, 2006, 08:21 AM
hate to burst your bubble but oniel WAS a fighter pilot...hence the reason that he knows how to fly all these fun crafts such as gliders, f302's, jumpers, and i think he may have flown something else in his time there.

i had another theory with the drones...what if the explosions were the dieing vessle exploding rather then the drone itself. a few examples that prove my point. In "condemed" we saw the jumper fire a single drone at the cruiser. it hit and immeadiately there was an explosion (maybe it hit a power conduit or something else)...well the explosion kept going as if the drone was just borring holes through crucial systems of the ship until finally hit hit something that blew up and took the drone with it. Another example, in Lost City when the drones were on there way up and they were taking out the gliders you saw them punch through the gliders, probably hitting the engines or another system that can go boom maybe the fuel or something, and then rejoin the rest of the group. Now this does not mean that they cant blow up should the controler want them to, eg in the tower they were used to blow up that cart of straw or what ever it was. i doubt that cart had anything even remotely explosive in it. But i think there primary use against ships is to bore holes in critical systems and cause them to explode rather then the drone itself expolding. A final example is in "its good to be king" when they fired the one drone it was able to take out an entire mothership, i mean come on it would take some serious power for one of those drones to take out one of those if it exploded. Had they have that power then in theory one drone could take out a cruiser or possibly an entire hive ship. Again to prove my theory the drone probably cut its way to the reactor and destroyed that, thus causing the big boom.

Therefore my new theory is that the drones themselves arent blowing up they are seeking out the energy systems in the ships and causing them to explode. i mean imagine what would happen if say a drone hit one of our air craft cariers, the tiny explosion would cause some problems but probably not sink the ship or caues any serious damage. Now what would happen if said drone hit the nuclear reactor or something of that effect, bye bye ship and possibly everything around it.

Stevos
January 11th, 2006, 09:56 AM
O'neil was not a fighter pilot, he was a special forces foot soldier. I believe carter was a fighter pilot though. In the first esp she stated she fly missions over iraq.

talyn2k1
January 11th, 2006, 02:07 PM
I think it was mentioned in S8 ep1 and possibly in later eps that they didn't have many drones left in the Antarctic outpost so understandably, they wanna save those incase of another large scale attack on Earth, although I would be surprised if they had enough to repel a large fleet considering how much they were worrying in that ep. Maybe enough to take out a few Hataks/Hive ships, but nothing more than that I wouldn't think.

I would be surprised if they had a drone factory in Atlantis as it would just be too convenient plot wise, unless they added some sort of limitation in such as power requirements so that they can only use it for a small amount of time or only in desperate situations, or maybe it can only be controlled from a chair and is more difficult to use than other systems so Shep can't use it properly. There would have to be some sort of limitation or it would just remove the danger of an attack on Atlantis.

The concept of a drone launcher on the Daedalus is interesting but, as above, there would have to be some sort of limitation or it would just be too easy.

Mio
January 11th, 2006, 07:25 PM
hate to burst your bubble but oniel WAS a fighter pilot...hence the reason that he knows how to fly all these fun crafts such as gliders, f302's, jumpers, and i think he may have flown something else in his time there.

Doesn't matter. He had the Ancient knowledge supressing a LOT about him. Even his language. It's conceivable that those skills were supressed as well.

I really like the theory that O'Neill had a 'better understanding' of how to best use the drones.

WraithWarrior
January 12th, 2006, 04:50 AM
I think it was mentioned in S8 ep1 and possibly in later eps that they didn't have many drones left in the Antarctic outpost so understandably, they wanna save those incase of another large scale attack on Earth, although I would be surprised if they had enough to repel a large fleet considering how much they were worrying in that ep. Maybe enough to take out a few Hataks/Hive ships, but nothing more than that I wouldn't think.

I would be surprised if they had a drone factory in Atlantis as it would just be too convenient plot wise, unless they added some sort of limitation in such as power requirements so that they can only use it for a small amount of time or only in desperate situations, or maybe it can only be controlled from a chair and is more difficult to use than other systems so Shep can't use it properly. There would have to be some sort of limitation or it would just remove the danger of an attack on Atlantis.

The concept of a drone launcher on the Daedalus is interesting but, as above, there would have to be some sort of limitation or it would just be too easy.

I agree, it would be too conveniant a thing to find. Maybe they need 2 ZPM's for it to produce drones (which they will have problems with because they couldnt even find one, it had to be delivered from the MW galaxy) or it could be broke and in order to fix it, they have to get a piece of technology which is on a planet that is protected by the Wraith (ooo, i like that)

catscratch
January 12th, 2006, 06:53 AM
Hmm - I wonder when Atlantis are gonna get a few GateBusters to add to the arsenal as well.

Would love to see one of those work its magic on a wraith-planet.

SmallTimePerson
January 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM
I wouldn't be surprise if there is a drone factory on Alantis
I would. Even if there was a drone factory on atlantis the drones would either take ages to make or there wouldn't be enough of the materials needed to make a great amount of drones, for two resons:
1. The ancients abandoned atlantis after being under siege for years, the thing about sieges is that you tend to run out of supplies fairly quickly, the least of which is ammo
2. The atlantis crew cannot suddenly have this huge weapon that has devastating destructive power as it makes things tooo easy for them. If you look at every weapon they have something eventually goes wrong (chair only had a few drones got replenished though, beaming tech on deadie-wraith blocked it, zpm powering shield-only last a few days by itself).

FallenAngelII
January 12th, 2006, 10:59 PM
thats true...we dont know that earth didnt use them all up. the only reason i thought that they had more was in season 8 ep 1 when weir was doing the negotiations i remember something being said about having to use the weapon again which makes me tend to believe that they had more left over so that they could fire it again. as for proclaroush the shield had collapsed many years before they got there or i believe so if im remembering the ep right. and even at that point the drones would prob be in one of the underground storage areas similar to the one on earth so in theory the asgard beams should be able to beam them out even if they cant go down there and pick them up...right?

Actually, everyone seems to forget that in "New Order", they kept saying that they couldn't use the ancient weapon anymore and that they were merely bluffing. Sounds to me like they ran out of ammo.

Steven_the_Atlantean
January 12th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Well I disagree, the drones are the only weapon that is protecting earth, and we have to consider that the Pegasus galaxy is full of drones that are yet to be discovered. Also Atlantis is safe now, when we are desperate maybe we can take some but until then earth should keep all its drones.

FallenAngelII
January 13th, 2006, 12:19 AM
Again, Earth has no drones left. And they would not be the only thing protecting Earth with the Prometheus, the Daedalus (if needed) and several other ships in the making (read the spoilers).

Not to mention random fighter planes.

SmallTimePerson
January 13th, 2006, 01:14 AM
Actually, everyone seems to forget that in "New Order", they kept saying that they couldn't use the ancient weapon anymore and that they were merely bluffing. Sounds to me like they ran out of ammo.
or the ZPM used to power that outpost was taken to SGC to power the wormhole to PG causing its depletion

FallenAngelII
January 13th, 2006, 05:15 AM
No, because it was stated that they could no longer use that weapon in "New Order", whose events occured BEFORE those of "Rising".

Because in "New Order", Elizabeth Weir (albeit played by a new actress) was still at the SGC!

FallenAngelII
January 13th, 2006, 05:16 AM
No, because it was stated that they could no longer use that weapon in "New Order", whose events occured BEFORE those of "Rising".

Because in "New Order", Elizabeth Weir (albeit played by a new actress) was still at the SGC! By cannon order, they probably hadn't even figured out that the Antarctica gate could dial the Pegasus galaxy yet as she was still fixed at the SGC.

ItsDan
January 13th, 2006, 05:05 PM
O'neil was not a fighter pilot, he was a special forces foot soldier

Yes he was/is special forces, but he was also a pilot.

SmallTimePerson
January 14th, 2006, 02:14 AM
when sheppard fired the drone, from the jumper in condemned it didn't explode on impact, it tunneled through part of the hull before exploding, or hitting something that exploded.When sheppard fires drones at darts the darts explode instantly, possibly taking out the drone as well.

I think the main reason why drones aren't shot down by the wraith id their attack signature, the drones are reasonably small and move quite fast, but the nuclear missles are quite big (and explosive) and move pretty slow compared to the darts.

I think the real question is, why does sheppard sometimes use 1 drone to destroy a dart and other times use up to 3 drones on a single dart?

LOKI LOKI
January 14th, 2006, 02:37 AM
i think its definately a good point about the mental aspect of the person controlling the drones and i think we need to see a major engagement with the wraith and drones to understand whether they want to shoot them down or not. they may have figured as there wasn't thousands pouring at them like in TLC that they werent worth worrying about really and to concentrate on what they already had planned. whats a few darts and their pilots because they are already too short on food

freyr's mother
January 14th, 2006, 06:39 AM
O'Neill was a fighter pilot thats why he's in the "air force". On another note im just suprised atlantis' drones didn't get shot down by our RG's by accident.

LOKI LOKI
January 14th, 2006, 06:59 AM
In TLC you see the drones being fired at anubis's fleet and theres hundreds maybe thousands of them. They destroy the fleet with most of the drones still intact my first question is what happened to them? Did they deactivate when o'neill got out of the chair (like the one with jack and mitch in the helicopter) did they automatically detonate or what? if they all deactivated we could use the transporters on daedulus to pick them all up and either return them to the main weapon in the antarctic outpost or we could ship them to Atlantis as a nice little surprise for the next wraith hive ship feeling a little peckish?

freyr's mother
January 14th, 2006, 07:05 AM
I have wondered that myself. After anubis' ms explodes it looks like the drones just get pushed far far away by the blast wave. It didn't look like they were destroyed. Someone should tell TPTB about this and maybe they could incorporate them into the next season.

RA the sun god
January 14th, 2006, 07:26 AM
well since the alterans were prety smart i wuld presume that they wuld have put a recal device in the drones so that they went back to the silo they came from...thats what i think

freyr's mother
January 14th, 2006, 07:27 AM
thats a good idea, i never would've thought of that.

RA the sun god
January 14th, 2006, 07:39 AM
well if they dont the alterans could have lost thousands of drones in one attack and as i see it in the lost city all the drones were shot and if this is so why then would they keep the zpm at the antartica base to defend earth???so they must have come back

Mio
January 14th, 2006, 01:44 PM
O'Neill was a fighter pilot thats why he's in the "air force". On another note im just suprised atlantis' drones didn't get shot down by our RG's by accident.

If the ammo from a rail gun hit an active drone, It's likely that the ammo would be destroyed by the drone, not the other way around.

Wildrat
January 14th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Not all drones were shot. There are still more left. Thats why they wanted the zpm to stay there.

Magneto
January 14th, 2006, 03:02 PM
This is a good point which i was wondering myself. I would like to belive they all returned or are still left deactivated in space!

cs-comm
January 14th, 2006, 04:39 PM
If the drones from Earth weren't used as missiles, where did they go after destroying Anubis' fleet? Did they return to the Ancient outpost? Did they self-destruct?

The most likley explanation that occurs to me is that the drones used on Earth had a higher yield then those used in Atlantis. Because a deathglider is a easy target, they could simply be rammed but the more powerful motherships could only be destroyed if the drones exploded.

If O'Niel knew how to best use the drones he would have fired one for every ship in orbit since we know that a single drone can destroy a mothership. The fact that he used huge overkill by deplying thousands of drones shows that he either thought that he needed to deploy that many drones or he thought that a wasting thousands of valuable drones was worth the light show.

With regards to the original topic of this thread, I think that drones aren't shot down because gould gunners have horrible aim and couldn't hit the F-302 much less a drone that is much smaller.

SmallTimePerson
January 14th, 2006, 08:19 PM
I haven't seen SG-1 much, but i read the episode summary here and it said that the system lords thought that the SGC was bluffing, i could have misread it of course...

Wraith_Hunter
January 15th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Okay a few things!

We know the chair controls the Drones, so let's take 'The Tower', 'Rising' etc as examples, the moment the chair goes off, the Drones cease to operate or continue to seek the targets that they were fired upon.

So if you watch 'The Lost City II', right after the ships have been destroyed, O'Neill slumps over & the chair goes off. Any Drones that were left, therefore will have gone off-line. So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

Even if by some miracle that they survived the burning up, since they were no longer being controlled & so at the spped that they would be coming back down from, they would be like micro meteors. So unles they had their own little parachutes to guide them down softly, anything they hit would be producing craters. Which in turn means that there wouldn't be anything left to re-use.

As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

They wanted to keep the ZPM, simply because it was a ZPM & so rare & valuable for them to waste. The only reason that it was given up, was because there was a good chance that they could find ancients that could show them how to build more, or at the very least more lying around the ancient city. As well as Drones & all the other advanced tech that it would have.

NakedJehutyV2
January 15th, 2006, 01:53 PM
the zpm was wasted after lost city.

however they could use a mark 2 naq generator to power it for a short while if they need to. however it's unknown if there's still any drones left

SmallTimePerson
January 16th, 2006, 01:28 AM
the zpm was wasted after lost city.

however they could use a mark 2 naq generator to power it for a short while if they need to. however it's unknown if there's still any drones left
the mark 2 isnt that reliable in siege 2 we saw that it refused to power up so shep could RC the PJ to blow up the hive ship

Jarnin
January 16th, 2006, 08:02 PM
As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.
I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

SmallTimePerson
January 16th, 2006, 11:29 PM
and the ancients couldn't possibly use all the drones (which protected the outpost) in one siege, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. O'niel would probably know how many drones to fire, or at least not to use them all.

And we have at least one drone left, the one that just about hit O'niel's helicopter

Wraith_Hunter
January 17th, 2006, 12:28 AM
I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

Only enough juice to dial up an 8 gate address into another galaxy. Pretty, pretty sure that would have allowed the firing of a few Drones. A MKII could fire a few dozen before it went down. So the ZPM would have still had enough considering how long it kept the gate open to fire at most a couple thou more Drones. The MKII is 6 time more powerful than that of a MKI is, 4 were used to dial Earth with the help of a PJ allowing connection for 1.3 secs. Which means that 1 realstically should be enough to hold it open for at least a sec or so. The ZPM held the gate open to Pegasus for a couple of mins max before they shut it down. They didn't watch it die, they closed it down themselves. So if something that could power the gate for around a sec or so can fire dozens & dozens of drones. Then the ZPM could have fired many, many more. At least enough to easily take care of a regular Al'Kesh. Heck the TJ took one out with only 2 drones.

From Earth destroying Anubis' fleet, to the Goa'uld threat. There was a time period of around a few weeks or so. Plenty enough time for them to at least give anyone with nthe gene a shot. After all if you have a weapon, then you're at least going to give it a fire to the best of your abilities. Considering they had tons of people with the gene. Rather than just sit back & pray that the Asgard come & save you.

The other point in this, was that O'Neill after having fired them, wasn't worried about conserving ammo. He didn't have time to go through the stocklist & see how many were left. He just new that there was around 30 or more ships out there & there was only one way to take them out. It didn't matter to conserve them, because it was the whole fleet & if that could be taken out then at least it gives them more time to form another plan. At best it scares the crap out of any other potential would be attackers.

So it's not silly that he is special forces or not, Shep fired 3 Drones in the 'Rising' pilot to take out a Dart, when all it would have taken was one. He was elite military, but nobody said that was silly or stupid. The point here is that there was many invading ships already in orbit of your planet. They had already been active in their attack. You get there & see all this, then are sitting around for a couple of mins while it cuts through the ice. Once you get there, alien soldiers that you've never seen before are firing all around you. While their ships are only a few hundred feet above you. Trust me, conserving ammo isn't your biggest concern. Getting rid of the enemy threat is.#

So the silly thing isn't what's been suggested. It's that during all this going on around him, not forgetting the ancient DB fighting for survival within a foreign host. Then his primary worry when the whole planet's future is is severe dire straits is that he's worried about what he fired. Simply thousadns & thousands were fired from an outpost. Whereas in Atlantis, they only had a couple of dozen left. So that should at least show you something. The outpost was never used in all that time while buried under the ice. It was full, it had fired thousands of them in one go, enough to severely almost deplete a brand new & fully working ZPM. Surely it should scream about the severe lack of drones that are remaining, if any at all.


and the ancients couldn't possibly use all the drones (which protected the outpost) in one siege, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. O'niel would probably know how many drones to fire, or at least not to use them all.

And we have at least one drone left, the one that just about hit O'niel's helicopter

Why wouldn't they last very long? They knew how to create more. So as long as they were still alive, then they had a basic unlimited supply of the things. When your under fire & the consequences of saving an entire planet & race of epeople in a matter of a few secs. Your primary concern isn't to worry about ammo. Here is an example, you are on a night out. A gang of guys surround you, one hits you. You have two choices, you can either run or fight. However if your trapped in an alley or corner then you have only 1 choice. So if they are coming at you quickly & straight after each other, probably even a couple/few at the exact same time. You don't worry about trying to conserve your ewnergy, your primary reactions are to defend yourself. You don't want to stand around conserving punches while your opponents are hitting you. You will use up everything you have in those moments to ensure that you try & make it out of that situation in one piece or at the very least give it your best shot in trying.

As for the single drone, it all depends on if they can be reused or not. If they can, then I would say that it would probably be in good enough condition to be refired again. If that is the case, then those from 'The Tower' could also be scopped up & used again as well.

However, we know when the chair is offline or no longer being operated then the drones shut down. So considering that most would have re-entered the Earth's atmosphere from orbit, then those that weren't burned up, which I think that they all would have easily been burned up instantly, then after they hit ground from those speeds & height. They weren't going to be anything left to be reused...period!

It is possible that if there was any that was directed outwards due to the blast of Anubis' ships, then they could have sent out Prometheus & opened it's cargo bay doors up to in effect scoop up all the loose ones into the bay, 302's could even be rigged with nets to scoop them up, the same way as fishermen do with their trawlers. Did they do it, possibly. Does anybody know for sure, no! If they didn't then there is probably a handful left in the outpost at most.

Jarnin
January 17th, 2006, 01:07 AM
Only enough juice to dial up an 8 gate address into another galaxy. Pretty, pretty sure that would have allowed the firing of a few Drones. A MKII could fire a few dozen before it went down.
The Mark II wasn't available at the time of New Order I, which is what I was referring to.


So the ZPM would have still had enough considering how long it kept the gate open to fire at most a couple thou more Drones. The MKII is 6 time more powerful than that of a MKI is, 4 were used to dial Earth with the help of a PJ allowing connection for 1.3 secs.
Uh, it was 1.3 microseconds, not seconds. That's 1.3 millionths of a second.


Which means that 1 realstically should be enough to hold it open for at least a sec or so.
No.



The ZPM held the gate open to Pegasus for a couple of mins max before they shut it down. They didn't watch it die, they closed it down themselves. So if something that could power the gate for around a sec or so can fire dozens & dozens of drones.
Conjecture + Speculation = no evidence.


Then the ZPM could have fired many, many more. At least enough to easily take care of a regular Al'Kesh. Heck the TJ took one out with only 2 drones.
As if the CGI artists they have doing the special effects have any background in science and physics... You can't base what you see as any kind of reliable measuring stick to what is discussed in the series. Sometimes they get things right. Most of the time they get it wrong, because they're artists, not physicists.


From Earth destroying Anubis' fleet, to the Goa'uld threat. There was a time period of around a few weeks or so. Plenty enough time for them to at least give anyone with nthe gene a shot.
Which also didn't exist at the time of New Order I, which is what we were discussing. The gene treatment didn't happen until after the Atlantis team was in Pegasus.


After all if you have a weapon, then you're at least going to give it a fire to the best of your abilities. Considering they had tons of people with the gene. Rather than just sit back & pray that the Asgard come & save you.
They didn't even know about the gene at this point in time. As far as the other members of the team knew, it was O'Neill's ancient knowledge, and not the ATA gene he possessed, was what controlled the chair and drones.


So it's not silly that he is special forces or not, Shep fired 3 Drones in the 'Rising' pilot to take out a Dart, when all it would have taken was one. He was elite military, but nobody said that was silly or stupid.
I see we're entering strawman territory: I say one thing, and then you use totally unrelated events to discredit what I wrote.

Here's a thought: Maybe the writers and special effects guys are being totally inconsistent with what they put in the show in regards to drones.

In one episode, they can fly through solid objects without being slowed. In other episodes they explode on impact. it's an inconsistancy that needs some explanation.

Wraith_Hunter
January 17th, 2006, 02:56 AM
The Mark II wasn't available at the time of New Order I, which is what I was referring to.

May I ask how you know this! In order to refer to something, then you actually need to put it in your post. If that weren't already obvious enough, mind you.


Uh, it was 1.3 microseconds, not seconds. That's 1.3 millionths of a second.

Uh, no it was 1.3 SECONDS. As in real seconds, not micro anything. If you try to crrect someone, please get it right!

Direct Quote from the episode:

This Episode: Transcript | Images

McKAY: It's really a long shot, but I think it's, uh, most likely worth the effort. Of course, it will mostly be my effort, so ...

SHEPPARD: What is it?

McKAY: I think we can send a message back to Earth through the Stargate.

BECKETT: Excuse me?!

WEIR: I thought we didn't have enough power.

McKAY: Not to send a person, no. We'd never be able to maintain the wormhole long enough. But I think if we were able to tie together all of our power-generating capabilities, we might -- and I emphasise might -- be able to establish a wormhole long enough to send a message.

SHEPPARD: How much time are we talking about?

McKAY: Well, approximately, uh, one point three seconds, give or take.

BECKETT: That's not much time.

FORD: Time enough to say, "S.O.S."!

McKAY: Don't be so analogue! One point three seconds is more than enough time to send a message if it's in the form of a high compression data burst. Now, I helped refine the encoding for the US Air Force a few years back. Colonel Carter should be able to, uh, decipher it on the other side.




No.

So 4 MKI's can dial it for 1.3 seconds, a MKII generator is 6 times more powerful. Yet that can't make it for at least 1 second. Hate to tell you this buddy, but your math royally sucks big time.


Conjecture + Speculation = no evidence.

Really! If you watch it, you see them going through very slowly, then the equipments comes through shortly after. This takes a couple of minutes to complete at least. Then Weir picks up a radio (the gate has been open for minutes now) & says to close the gate down. A bottle of champagne rolls through & it closes down. So that isn't evidence is it? I hate to breka it to you but you obviously haven't even watched the pilot episode, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a ridiculos statement.

Direct Quote from 'Rising I':[B]AGAIN

SUMNER (to Weir): That's everyone.

(Weir turns towards the Gate and lifts her radio to her mouth.)

WEIR: General O'Neill. Atlantis base offers greetings from the Pegasus Galaxy. You may cut power to the Gate.

(A champagne bottle rolls out of the Gate and across the floor. The Gate shuts down. Weir picks up the bottle and looks at the label attached around its neck. It reads: “Bon Voyage! General Jack O'Neill”. Weir smiles up at Sheppard and McKay on the balcony, showing them the bottle. Sheppard nods down to her.)


As if the CGI artists they have doing the special effects have any background in science and physics... You can't base what you see as any kind of reliable measuring stick to what is discussed in the series. Sometimes they get things right. Most of the time they get it wrong, because they're artists, not physicists.

Who said any anything about Physics. My 3 year old newphew could figure this out! If a ZPM has enough power to dial up ANOTHER galaxy &hold the connection for a few minutes,. Before bing voluntarily closed down. Then if a MKII has enough power to fire a few dozen drones (from 'The Siege II') then you even dare to say that the ZPM despite having the power for Pegasus later on couldn't fire any more drones from the outpost. Dream on Einstein!


Which also didn't exist at the time of New Order I, which is what we were discussing. The gene treatment didn't happen until after the Atlantis team was in Pegasus.

It didn't happen till they were in Pegasus did it!

Then what was this that was said in 'Rising'.

BECKETT: I could sit in that chair all bloody day long and nothing would happen. It's a waste of time. Excuse me, Doctor Weir. (He walks away.)

McKAY (to Weir): He's not even trying.

WEIR: But he's the one who discovered the gene this technology responds to.

McKAY: Yeah, well, he said he wished he never had it.

WEIR: Really?

McKAY (incredulously): I know, can you believe that?

(Weir smiles.)

WEIR: We could always test you a third time, Rodney.

McKAY (annoyed): That's very funny.

WEIR: We've only found a handful of people who are genetically compatible with the Ancient technology and despite your heroic efforts to interface ours with theirs, we need every one of them to sit in this Chair, including Doctor Beckett.


They didn't even know about the gene at this point in time. As far as the other members of the team knew, it was O'Neill's ancient knowledge, and not the ATA gene he possessed, was what controlled the chair and drones.

Again same as above, they were experimenting & researching on the outpost. The original time period between O'Neill getting frozen & 'New Order' was a minimum of weeks, it could potentially be months even. In 'New Order' she is packing up her stuff, then in 'Rising' she says she has been picking the team for months. However to prove that it is at least weeks. They have been already talking to the Goa'uld before 'New Order'. Sam & Teal'c use the modified Cargo ship that takes 10 days to get to the Asgard galaxy. Just thought I'd add that in, wouldn't want to show you up again. ;)


I see we're entering strawman territory: I say one thing, and then you use totally unrelated events to discredit what I wrote.

Here's a thought: Maybe the writers and special effects guys are being totally inconsistent with what they put in the show in regards to drones.

In one episode, they can fly through solid objects without being slowed. In other episodes they explode on impact. it's an inconsistancy that needs some explanation.

o save you the trouble of embarrasing yourself any further.

Actually it relates perfectly! You used the old adage that because he was ex special forces, then he would fire carefully. Despite the fact of the insurmountible odds that were facing them at the time. I simply showed you, that Shep who could operate the chair immediately, fly jumpers instantly & control ancient tech naturally. Whereas in 'It's good to be king', which occurs a lot later on, we see O'neill having problems even starting the thing up. I was proving a point, that it has nothing to do with conserving ammo. It was about getting the job done at that particular point in time.

So thanks for playing, but I'm afraid it's Game Over. Your score ranking considering your post count is the worst that I've come across so far. Try actually watching the SG episodes properly & learn things before you feel qualified to try & pick holes in what people (like me who know exactly what they are talking about) post up!

If I were you,I'd try ebay for a few bargain StarGate DVD's. Just to get you some knowledge of the show before you can feel qualified to attempt to seem like you know what your talking about.

Thor of The Asgard
January 17th, 2006, 04:34 AM
i like those drone weapons...i hope we will see them in action agein...
i hope they find ZPM's and use the chair of the ancients agein...

Wraith_Hunter
January 17th, 2006, 06:29 AM
i like those drone weapons...i hope we will see them in action agein...
i hope they find ZPM's and use the chair of the ancients agein...

Well they have a ZPM & a fresh supply of Drones. After what happens to Daedalus in he finale then that looks like their only choice. However with regards to the virus, then that may disable the chair & so they might not get to use it at all. Hopefully though we'll get to see Drones fly right into orbit this time & see what kind of damage they do to Hive ships.

BigBadBob
January 17th, 2006, 08:37 AM
I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

Plus, not everyone can operate the ancient outpost's chair. They have to have a special gene for the technology to activate or something.

Mister Oragahn
January 17th, 2006, 11:05 AM
It's possible that you can infuse more or less energy into each drone, making them more durable and powerful, and increasing their range and autonomy.
Think of instant rechargeable batteries which can also work as weapons.

lachyn
January 17th, 2006, 05:41 PM
i doubt atlantis has drone making facilities, and earth didn't run out of drones, weir said they didn't know if the weapon would work again, it was a power issue, not a drone issue

also, earth still has a zpm, the one camulus brought .... remember oneill sent back the depleted one, all they have to do is fix it, which i'm sure the asgard will do in the nick of time, or sam will have a moment of brilliance, or the tokra will do it, but i think it will happen (maybe zalenka ^_^)

but anyways, i'm sure atlantis has lots of cool stuff that only works at full power, like turbolaser equivalents and stuff like that ....... maybe 1 zpm is the shield, 2 zpm is phaser/turbolaser, and 3 zpm is hyperspace

SmallTimePerson
January 17th, 2006, 06:12 PM
maybe 1 zpm is the shield, 2 zpm is phaser/turbolaser, and 3 zpm is hyperspace
hate tom spoil it for you, but atlantis is a flying city, not a warship. 1zpm shield etc, two zpm prob could fly, 3 zpm fully functional city with hyperspace.

NakedJehutyV2
January 17th, 2006, 06:55 PM
yeah it's 1.3 secondswho's to say they already didn't do it?

NakedJehutyV2
January 17th, 2006, 07:14 PM
hate tom spoil it for you, but atlantis is a flying city, not a warship. 1zpm shield etc, two zpm prob could fly, 3 zpm fully functional city with hyperspace.


no proof for that,

however the mark2 powered the chair the time they needed to defend atlantis in siege 1. they could use another one for earth

devils_babysitter
January 17th, 2006, 07:43 PM
if ya wanna see a lot more drones in SGA, wait for "the tower". this is all i will say.

oh, i don't download shows myself, but i have a friend who dose. he's from another country and doesnt get all the channels we would get, so he downloads.:)

Thor of The Asgard
January 17th, 2006, 11:24 PM
never mind what needs to be done...just use them agein in a huge way!
like what oneil did to anubis and his ships!!

Turboz
January 18th, 2006, 02:48 AM
Hmm this is interesting. Jack fired thousands of drones into the earths orbit where Anubis's fleet was orbiting.

Not all of the drones were used. Now unless Jack specifically sent a command to them to shut down then i'd like to tender a different theory.

Perhaps the drones did not shut down but continued to orbit in our solar system seeking potential targets to lock onto and destroy.

Would be kinda cool - Gou'ald don't come near or you'll get taken out without us even trying to lol

-Turboz

donniepw
January 18th, 2006, 07:44 AM
I don't think the Antartic outpost was out of drones in New order. At the time it was thought that the only one who could activate the chair was O'Neill and we was is some form of stasis. It wasn't until Rising that they mentioned it was due to a gene that O'Neill possessed and not soley the ancient database in his head that allowed him to operate the chair and thus the weapons. Whatever defenses they had left would be inoperable when they used the remaining juice in the ZPM to open the gate to Atlantis. That was the reason for O'Neill's initial rejection of the plan to use the ZPM to open the gate. Only the potential of finding more ZPMs and being able to power up the chair again, along with wahtever other cool weapons they might find, changed O'Neill's mind

Also they used the Giza gate at the SGC to go to Atlantis. The Antartic gate was destroyed by Anubis back SG-1 season 6.

Wraith_Hunter
January 18th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Hmm this is interesting. Jack fired thousands of drones into the earths orbit where Anubis's fleet was orbiting.

Not all of the drones were used. Now unless Jack specifically sent a command to them to shut down then i'd like to tender a different theory.

Perhaps the drones did not shut down but continued to orbit in our solar system seeking potential targets to lock onto and destroy.

Would be kinda cool - Gou'ald don't come near or you'll get taken out without us even trying to lol

-Turboz

If you watch 'The Tower', you will see that they go offline when they aren't controlled by the chair. In that ep, they were sent towards a village, yet when the chair went down. The Drones went offline & fell to ground.

So it doesn't matter, what signals you give them. Once the aren't being controlled by the chair any longer, then they are done!

lachyn
January 18th, 2006, 05:57 PM
hate tom spoil it for you, but atlantis is a flying city, not a warship. 1zpm shield etc, two zpm prob could fly, 3 zpm fully functional city with hyperspace.


hmmmmmmmm, lets think about this ....... awesome shields, hyperspace travel, and defenses (so far only drones that we know of) ....... definately sounds like more than a city

maybe its not a warship like your thinking of, entirely devoted to war, but then again, can't say it isn't capable of fighting ...... and we know the ancients have "turbolasers," and those satelite lasers, so why not integrate those into atlantis?

Thor of The Asgard
January 18th, 2006, 08:27 PM
damn!...such strong weapon but we need a ZPM...

SmallTimePerson
January 18th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Who said any anything about Physics. My 3 year old newphew could figure this out! If a ZPM has enough power to dial up ANOTHER galaxy &hold the connection for a few minutes,. Before bing voluntarily closed down. Then if a MKII has enough power to fire a few dozen drones (from 'The Siege II') then you even dare to say that the ZPM despite having the power for Pegasus later on couldn't fire any more drones from the outpost. Dream on Einstein!

Umm, the ZPM that dialled pegasus only had to establish the wormhole, then the other PM in Atlantis helped keep the connection going. The ZPM that dialled atlantis is now depleted, thats why it was a 1 way trip. The mark2 only has enough power to start the chair (which it cant always do) I doubt that it has enough power to dial a wormhole from MW to PG as just to dial MW from PG it took 5 naq generators and a PJ, and a Mk2 is only 6 times more powerful than a mark 1 and nowhere near as stable

NakedJehutyV2
January 18th, 2006, 10:57 PM
what turbolasers?

Thor of The Asgard
January 18th, 2006, 11:35 PM
Umm, the ZPM that dialled pegasus only had to establish the wormhole, then the other PM in Atlantis helped keep the connection going. The ZPM that dialled atlantis is now depleted, thats why it was a 1 way trip. The mark2 only has enough power to start the chair (which it cant always do) I doubt that it has enough power to dial a wormhole from MW to PG as just to dial MW from PG it took 5 naq generators and a PJ, and a Mk2 is only 6 times more powerful than a mark 1 and nowhere near as stable

....thats means.....they are not going home.....

lachyn
January 19th, 2006, 04:24 AM
the episode where mckay found the big ancient power source that he blew up ..... there was a turbolaser like gun on the roof of the building discharging the power

Wraith_Hunter
January 19th, 2006, 10:21 AM
Umm, the ZPM that dialled pegasus only had to establish the wormhole, then the other PM in Atlantis helped keep the connection going. The ZPM that dialled atlantis is now depleted, thats why it was a 1 way trip. The mark2 only has enough power to start the chair (which it cant always do) I doubt that it has enough power to dial a wormhole from MW to PG as just to dial MW from PG it took 5 naq generators and a PJ, and a Mk2 is only 6 times more powerful than a mark 1 and nowhere near as stable

eh, umm, umm, do you care to actually back that up with actual references from the show.

If you actually listen to what's said then you'll know that's BS!

Listen to quotes from the episode.


WEIR: Alright, here we go. We are about to try to make a connection. We have been unable to predict exactly how much power this is gonna take and we may only get the one chance at this, so if we are able to achieve a stable wormhole, we're not gonna risk shutting the Gate down. We'll send in the M.A.L.P robot probe, check for viability and go. Everything in one shot. Now, every one of you volunteered for this mission and you represent over a dozen countries. You are the world's best and brightest; and in light of the adventure we are about to embark on, you are also the bravest. I hope we all return one day having discovered a whole new realm for humanity to explore, but as all of you know, we may never be able to return home. I'd like to offer you all one last chance to withdraw your participation.


WEIR: General O'Neill. Atlantis base offers greetings from the Pegasus Galaxy. You may cut power to the Gate.

(A champagne bottle rolls out of the Gate and across the floor. The Gate shuts down. Weir picks up the bottle and looks at the label attached around its neck. It reads: “Bon Voyage! General Jack O'Neill”. Weir smiles up at Sheppard and McKay on the balcony, showing them the bottle. Sheppard nods down to her.)

It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate. If that's the case, then the SGC can use 4/5 MKII's to connect to Atlantis, then let the Atlantis gate take up all the power. Not going to happen is it! You say a MKII only has enough power to start he chair up, yet we know that it's 6 times more powerful than a MKI. Yet if you do the math & see that 4 MKI's can establish a wormhole, but say a MKII doesn't have enough. Despite the fact that it's more powerul that all the MKI's put together that were originally used. Then if you don't see the problem here, then I strongly suggest you go back to counting school kid! So all the SGC had to do was hook up a couple of the MKII genny's then they could connect at will whenever they choose. Sorry, but until this is really explained in the show, then it's a complete & utter myth!

Publius Aemilius Aper
January 19th, 2006, 11:17 AM
back to the original question....

no one said specifically that there was only one drone silo in the outpost(unless I'm mistaken then Wraith Hunter feel free to spew out more quotes from "the Rising" lol). For all we know there could be many silos located around Antarctica, all with the same amount of drones as the one closest to the chair. That's just an idea anyway

SmallTimePerson
January 19th, 2006, 05:16 PM
It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate. If that's the case, then the SGC can use 4/5 MKII's to connect to Atlantis, then let the Atlantis gate take up all the power. Not going to happen is it! You say a MKII only has enough power to start he chair up, yet we know that it's 6 times more powerful than a MKI. Yet if you do the math & see that 4 MKI's can establish a wormhole, but say a MKII doesn't have enough. Despite the fact that it's more powerul that all the MKI's put together that were originally used.
Wraith_Hunter, YOU ARE WRONG. in letters from pegasus Mckay didn't just use Mk1s he used a PJ as well

(The meeting breaks up. Rodney speaks to Elizabeth as she walks past him.)
McKAY: As soon as Zelenka and I can get, uh, Jumper Four's engines tied into the grid, we should be able to do a low-powered dry run.
and atlantis used 5 mk1 generators, not 4

Five naquadah generators power Atlantis, one responsible for a discrete section of the city.

and mkIIs are no where near stable enough to be relied upon, whilst atlantis was under siege the mkII couldnt power up the chair to allow shep to rc the PJ into the hive

We are yet to know how strong the PJ poweer supply is, in relation to naq generators

SmallTimePerson
January 19th, 2006, 11:13 PM
If the drones from Earth weren't used as missiles, where did they go after destroying Anubis' fleet? Did they return to the Ancient outpost? Did they self-destruct?

drones become inactive once the user gets off the chair or the chair deactivates for some reason

NakedJehutyV2
January 20th, 2006, 12:25 AM
In Condemned, we see a drone hit a Wraith Cruiser and the cruiser was helpless, didn't try to stop the drone, granted that it was from close range.


yeah that scene was GOLD SELDINI GOLD!!!

anyway it was great

NakedJehutyV2
January 20th, 2006, 01:58 AM
cool. forgot bout that.

Schrodinger82
January 22nd, 2006, 05:15 PM
As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

Yes, because they don't have a power source. This has been made rather clear on so many occasions throughout the show that it seriously hurts your credibility to say otherwise.

O'NEILL: This poison – does it kill Jaffa as well as Goa’uld?
DAVIS (nodding reluctantly): That’s right.
O'NEILL: How many casualties are we talking about?
(Davis opens his mouth but Reynolds answers.)
REYNOLDS: Thousands. Tens of thousands.
O'NEILL: So it’s not really a rescue plan – it’s a full-scale attack.
REYNOLDS: That would most certainly provoke a reaction – possibly another attack on Earth.
DAVIS: But considering the fact that we now have a ZPM to power the Ancient defences, I don’t think ...

So Davis thinks that Earth can be defended after a full scale attack because of < 10 drones? Alternative universe Mitchell are going to cross over and leave this Atlantis and possibly Earth helpless against the Wraith for the sake of < 10 drones? I don't think so.


So 4 MKI's can dial it for 1.3 seconds, a MKII generator is 6 times more powerful. Yet that can't make it for at least 1 second. Hate to tell you this buddy, but your math royally sucks big time.

The math is fine.

SHEPPARD: You’re suggesting this now?

McKAY: Because it probably won’t work, and there’s a very good chance it could overload our naqahdah generators in the process.

Obiously, the 4 MKI weren't running under normal conditions. If they were, then McKay wouldn't have been worried about potentially overloading them. Not to mention the fact that it was at an output level that couldn't be sustained for longer than 1.3 seconds -- and even at a mere 1.3 seconds, you still risked permanent damage.

So yes, 4 MKI generators running at far abnormal conditions > 6 normal MKI generators running under normal conditions. Just how much more? We don't know. But here's a clip from Home:

McKAY: Forget Prometheus. I have figured out how to establish a wormhole connection back to the Pegasus galaxy, but I’m gonna need the ZedPM.
HAMMOND: The ZeePM’s been depleted – it’s of no use.
McKAY: Actually, that’s not entirely true. See, the last time we used it, the ZedPM had to establish and maintain a wormhole back to Atlantis. This time round, all we need for it to do is to have enough energy to establish the briefest of connections – by my calculations, approximately, what, three point five microseconds.
HAMMOND: That hardly seems like enough time to establish a connection ...
McKAY (interrupting): General, when we first set foot on M5S-224, before the wormhole shut down, I picked up fluctuations in the energy field. Now, at the time, I just assumed that that was an effect of the Gate’s residual energy signature. Now, having given it some thought, I realised that can’t account for such sizeable variances, which leaves only one possible explanation. The Gate must have been energised on our arrival, meaning it doesn’t just draw power on outgoing wormholes, but on incoming wormholes as well. All we have to do is make a connection. Three point five microseconds, that’s the minimum amount of time it requires to confirm a lock before the Gate automatically kicks in, drawing power from the atmosphere to maintain the wormhole.
HAMMOND: You’ll forgive me, Doctor – this all seems a little far-fetched.
McKAY: Well, think of it like making a long-distance call to someone you know is gonna accept the charges. All you have to do is dial.
HAMMOND: I’m sorry, Doctor.
McKAY: Well, you’re not gonna lose anything by letting me try, are you? All I wanna do is run a couple of tests.
(Hammond stops and gives it some thought.)
HAMMOND: Alright. I’ll have the ZeePM delivered to the lab. (He walks away.)
McKAY: Thank you. (He claps his hands together and walks off in the opposite direction.)

So as of "Home," the only device that Rodney knew of that could establish a stable connection for even 3.5 microseconds was a dead ZPM. None of Earth's other resources would do -- not even one of the far more powerful Naquadriah reactors that they had already developed.

Schrodinger82
January 22nd, 2006, 05:34 PM
It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate. If that's the case, then the SGC can use 4/5 MKII's to connect to Atlantis, then let the Atlantis gate take up all the power. Not going to happen is it!

Why bother? The Atlantis team makes scheduled data transmissions to SG1, SG1 could just as easily send a scheduled data transmission back. The only time when SG1 would have a reason to make an unsceduled transmission would be in "critical mass." Of course, that's about as reasonable as calling someone over the phone to tell them not to use their phone. Don't do it.


Yet if you do the math & see that 4 MKI's can establish a wormhole, but say a MKII doesn't have enough. Despite the fact that it's more powerul that all the MKI's put together that were originally used. Then if you don't see the problem here, then I strongly suggest you go back to counting school kid! So all the SGC had to do was hook up a couple of the MKII genny's then they could connect at will whenever they choose.

Sure -- and they'll risk overloading them all in the process. Which could very well trigger a nuclear explosion, but hey, let's try it anyway.

Wraith_Hunter
January 22nd, 2006, 06:23 PM
Wraith_Hunter, YOU ARE WRONG. in letters from pegasus Mckay didn't just use Mk1s he used a PJ as well

and atlantis used 5 mk1 generators, not 4


and mkIIs are no where near stable enough to be relied upon, whilst atlantis was under siege the mkII couldnt power up the chair to allow shep to rc the PJ into the hive

We are yet to know how strong the PJ poweer supply is, in relation to naq generators


Check my earlier posts & you will see that I also said they used a jumper. Hence I ain't wrong. If you remember correctly, the SGC still has the time jumper. So I ain't wrong, you are for assuming things before actually reading them.

Not four. Really, didn't they have 5 originally. Then they destroyed one. Which I think you should take that trip that I suggested earlier back to counting school immediately. Because 5 minus 1 = Four (4). So your wrong again! Does the big boy need to show you a picture & count to four!

How do you know that it's nowhere near stable enough to be relied upon. This hasn't been said anywhere in the show, so you are just trying to pass your speculations off as fact.

In fact in the episode. McKay says this:


McKAY (from the Chair Room): We must have exhausted the Mark Two's energy output. It's dead

So your wrong again. THREE in a row, let's keep going as you seem to be on a roll now.


Onto the next brainiac now!!!!!


Yes, because they don't have a power source. This has been made rather clear on so many occasions throughout the show that it seriously hurts your credibility to say otherwise.

Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up. Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al. So they didn't have one. So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way. Then get DJ to try & talk them out of it. We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

Onto your next bit, who's to say they weren't running under normal conditions. He was worried because since the expedition began, they were being used individually. This was the first time, they were all being rigged up together. That's why he brought it up. Simply because he had never done it before & didn't know what the result of doing so would be.

As for 'Home'. why are you evewn referencing this, they weren't actually in the SGC. They were led on by the energy beings who didn't know everything. They simply read the minds while the team was unconscious. If they did then, they wouldn't have brough up Shep's dead buddies. See what I'm getting at here! If you don't then don't worry about it. You never will then.



Why bother? The Atlantis team makes scheduled data transmissions to SG1, SG1 could just as easily send a scheduled data transmission back. The only time when SG1 would have a reason to make an unsceduled transmission would be in "critical mass." Of course, that's about as reasonable as calling someone over the phone to tell them not to use their phone. Don't do it.

Why bother what? The SGC couldn't send anything back because they don't have enough power to do this on a regular basis. If they even tried it, then it wouldn't be very cost effective would it! They could burn out all those MKii's as well as the PJ itself on the first go. So too much expnses to send a meaningless transmission, don't ya think! 'Why bring in 'Critical Mass', you say about using it, when it was explained in the episode why they couldn't even attempt it. Duh!


Sure -- and they'll risk overloading them all in the process. Which could very well trigger a nuclear explosion, but hey, let's try it anyway.

You know this how? The Atlantis team didn't have a problem trying it, considering they hadn't even done an evac before making the attempt. Which they did do later on when they knew the Wraith were about to get there.

So obviously if the genny's go which there is no reason as to why they would. McKay only cautioned against it because he was unsure. Whereas Carter & other scientists like her would know a lot more about the things as they built them than anyone else. So since Atlantis didn't see the need to evac prior to doing this, then it's not going to cause a nuclear explosion. If they were concerned about them going, then they obviously were not going to worry too much about the damage because nobody felt the need to leave at all. So yes they could try it & should to see if it works or not.


Man, why do all the wackjobs always jump on my posts. Lately that's all that seems to be happening here. I end up actually having to waste time, dumbing down a few levels to try & make them understand the simple things!

Schrodinger82
January 22nd, 2006, 07:28 PM
Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up.

Oh yes, New Order. Hmm...

AMATERASU: This Ancient weapon: such an advanced piece of technology. The power requirements must be enormous. Even simple maintenance must be extremely difficult, given your limited capabilities.
WEIR (sitting down again): We manage.
AMATERASU (insincerely): Of course, we believe you. (She looks at Camulus.) But I wonder what Ba’al would think if he were to receive intelligence that the weapon was temporarily out of commission.
CAMULUS (to his fellow System Lords): Hmm. He would come to this world to claim it for himself. The Tauri would be forced to destroy him.
AMATERASU: And we would have to give them nothing.

And...

WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

And...

WEIR: They could still try and draw Ba’al here, let him figure it out for them.
DANIEL: Yeah, that’s dangerous for them, because if we can’t power the weapon ...
WEIR: ... which we can’t ...
DANIEL: ... Ba’al would end up with both Earth *and* the Ancient outpost in his possession.

From Zero Hour:

BRIEFING ROOM. Reynolds opens a case he brought back. Inside is a power device identical to the one that Jack brought back from Proklarush Taonas to work the Ancient chair in Antarctica.
REYNOLDS: It wasn’t plugged in.
GILMOR: What is it?
O'NEILL: It’s a ZPM.
GILMOR: What’s that?
LEE (coming into the room): A Zero Point Module. Um, it’s an Ancient power source that draws its energy from subspace.
REYNOLDS: It’s the only thing powerful enough to activate the Ancient defence weapons SG-1 found down in Antarctica. The one we have is pretty much dead ...
(Lee has been running a gadget over the ZPM. The gadget starts beeping.)

And...

REYNOLDS: That would most certainly provoke a reaction – possibly another attack on Earth.
DAVIS: But considering the fact that we now have a ZPM to power the Ancient defences, I don’t think ...

Moebius:

DANIEL: Jack, think about it: with a fully functional ZPM we could power Earth’s defences and open up a wormhole to the Pegasus galaxy.

Not to mention the fact that Alternative-Universe Mitchell thought that coming to our Earth to steal our ZPM would be the best shot of fighting off the Ori. Which would be sort of hard to believe if there were < 10.

But go on. Feel free to keep telling us about how the reason they can't use the outpost is due to a lack of drones, rather than a lack of power. If it helps to call us thich-headed for saying otherwise, then by all means, troll away. It just makes you look more and more credible with every post you make.


Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al.

So what, the fact that the ZPM is tainted is going to magically change the number of drones they have in storage? Man, Camulus must sure be crafty.

Because my point was that the reason they couldn't power the defensive chair in Antartica was due to a lack of power, rather than a lack of drones (as you claimed.). How does the fact that they can't use their chair anymore because they no longer have a viable power supply in anyway change that point?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't. In fact, it proves my point entirely. But thank you for pointing out that piece of information.


So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

From "Rising":

MCKAY: The 0 point module General. The ancient power source you recovered from quator kanas and is now powering the outpost's defenses.

In other words, they already had a chance to check the number of drones available, before the ZPM was drained, and before the Zero Hour took place.


If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way.

New Order begs to differ:

WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

So you have two reasons, the fact that Jack isn't awake to operate it, and the fact that they don't have power. But feel free to continue attributing it to a lack of drones.


We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

Well, aside from the reasons already listed above (e.g., no one to operate it, insufficient power), there's also the fact that the episode you're referring to takes place several months after the fact, at which point they've had several weeks to analyze the data at the outpost with a fully conscious Jack at the helm. Not to mention that the fact that this particular feat took everyone by SURPRISE, which meant that no one at the time anticipated it, much less someone several months earlier with far less information.


As for 'Home'. why are you evewn referencing this, they weren't actually in the SGC. They were led on by the energy beings who didn't know everything. They simply read the minds while the team was unconscious.

Which has absolutely no bearing on Rodney's calculations and his knoweledge of viable alternatives. The fact that the aliens had created a fantasy world for him isn't going to magically make him forget that he can use a much more powerful naquadriah reactor or some other viable alternative instead. In fact, that's the entire reason why Rodney was able to realize that he was in an illusion -- because the empirical data didn't match what he knew to be true.


Why bother what? The SGC couldn't send anything back because they don't have enough power to do this on a regular basis.

Wormholes are bi-directional when it comes to radio transmission, which is why the MALPs can still send back information back to Earth. If the wormhole has already been opened from Atlantis to Earth, then Earth can easily send radio transmissions from Earth to Atlantis.


You know this how? The Atlantis team didn't have a problem trying it,
considering they hadn't even done an evac before making the attempt. Which they did do later on when they knew the Wraith were about to get there.

Really, and you know for a fact that they didn't evac... how? We never saw what was going on on the Atlantis end. ALl we saw was the information being transmitted, and the information being recieved.


I end up actually having to waste time, dumbing down a few levels

Well, at least you're right on that part.

BuuZeroC
January 22nd, 2006, 09:04 PM
I was just thinking there is a chair on that planet, there was the ZPM SG1 took, what if there are more drone weapons there?

Yes, the dome colapsed but they can scan and beam them up with the Prometheus. would definitly be an asset agianst the ori.

on a side note who else thinks they should bring back the milkyway puddlejumper(without time travel device)

FallenAngelII
January 22nd, 2006, 10:19 PM
Well, if the drones are sturdy enough to withstand lava >_>'.

Schrodinger82
January 22nd, 2006, 11:31 PM
Oh yeah...


Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up. Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al. So they didn't have one. So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way. Then get DJ to try & talk them out of it. We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

So on one hand, you're telling us that power requirements aren't an issue, because the ZPM hadn't been used up by the time we're in New Order.

On the other hand, you're telling us that it's impossible for the SG1 to know how many drones they have on Earth, specifically because they don't have power.

On another hand, you're telling us that even though they you already claimed that they don't know how many drones they have left as of "Zero Hour", they somehow manage to know that they don't even have a single one as of "New Order" -- despite the fact that "Zero Hour" takes place several weeks afterwards. And despite the fact that they were fully expecting for there to be thousands of drones by the time that "The Siege" takes place, which takes place several months after the fact, and which point they would have already had an active ZPM from Ancient Egypt to double check on the number of drones from Earth.

Are we all on the same page by now?

Occam's razor. Make no more assumptions than needed. In this case, the fact that the the only hindrence to using the ancient outpost on Earth is simply due to a lack of power, rather than a lack of drones. This because a) the lack of power is sufficient to explains every phenomenom you have mentioned and has been directly referred to in the shows, b) the fact that that there is absolutely nothing on the show directly suggests that Earth is lacking in drones, and c) the notion that they do would contradict what we have already seen, and thus would require additional assumptions in order to explain the contradiction.

It's not that you're a jerk, Wraith_Hunter, or that you're an idiot. It's that you're both things, simultaneously. You make it painfully obvious that not only are you completely unable to form a coherent thought, but you also choose to be extremely condescending to anyone who chooses to point this out.

AscendedWarrior
January 24th, 2006, 06:33 AM
Okay a few things!

We know the chair controls the Drones, so let's take 'The Tower', 'Rising' etc as examples, the moment the chair goes off, the Drones cease to operate or continue to seek the targets that they were fired upon.

So if you watch 'The Lost City II', right after the ships have been destroyed, O'Neill slumps over & the chair goes off. Any Drones that were left, therefore will have gone off-line. So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

In both tower and rising the drones went ofline beacause the power was depleted(in rising the shut the power off).

OK, hardly no drones were destroyed attacking the ships, and Jack would want to keep some ammo for other times, so he could have ordered the drones back and then got out of the chair.

chemicalNova
January 24th, 2006, 06:57 AM
So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

That's an interesting theory, given that the drones seemed to exit the atmosphere intact. Do they have a shield around them while activated? It doesn't look like it. They just have the glowing head. You can see what I mean by watching 'Rising'.

chem

chemicalNova
January 24th, 2006, 07:03 AM
If you remember correctly, the SGC still has the time jumper. So I ain't wrong, you are for assuming things before actually reading them.

I'm not so sure they have the time jumper. They get it in 'It's good to be King', they use it to go back in time in Moebius Part 1, they recover it at present time in Moebius Part 2, but towards the end - when everything is back to normal - they make no mention of ever having the time machine. All they have is the ZPM.

chem

chemicalNova
January 24th, 2006, 07:06 AM
It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate.
Sorry I have multiple posts, things keep catching my eye as I go to click back.

He's at least correct here. We know from the Black-Hole incident that the gate draws its energy from the dialing gate. If it were the other way around, cutting main power to the Stargate (like they attempted) would have cut off the connection.

chem

AscendedWarrior
January 24th, 2006, 07:33 AM
I'm not so sure they have the time jumper. They get it in 'It's good to be King', they use it to go back in time in Moebius Part 1, they recover it at present time in Moebius Part 2, but towards the end - when everything is back to normal - they make no mention of ever having the time machine. All they have is the ZPM.

chem

They got the time machine before the zpm(and the idea of going back), so they had it but hadn't though about going back to get the zpm.

Scrump
January 24th, 2006, 02:58 PM
They got the time machine before the zpm(and the idea of going back), so they had it but hadn't though about going back to get the zpm.
If they never blew up the time machines in ancient Egypt they should have 3... First one when SG1 (orig timeline) went back left for SG1 in case time got screwed up. Second one when SG1 (messed up timeline) went back and left it there. Third one from "It's Good to be King" from timeline 3 (original timeline except find ZPM and don't have to go back). Unless of course due to something like entropic cascade failure when the time in which you went back is reached the time machines kinda cease to exist. Otherwise you could make a fleet of time machines simply by going back over and over again and leaving em for future people to go back in and repeat. (I go back now with one machine a day (Yes I know it has to be in leaps of 100 years) and leave it, now today I have a time machine from when I went back, so I go back 23 hours (now there's 2 time machine - one from 24 hours ago and one from 23 hours ago), etc. etc. etc. Blah time travel is confusing.

Scrump
January 24th, 2006, 03:18 PM
O'Neill was a fighter pilot thats why he's in the "air force". On another note im just suprised atlantis' drones didn't get shot down by our RG's by accident.
Well I agree that the O'Neill was a fighter pilot. The Air Force though does have special forces units that are not pilots. There are also other units in the Air Force that do not have pilot experience.

Wraith_Hunter
January 27th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Oh yes, New Order. Hmm...
AMATERASU: This Ancient weapon: such an advanced piece of technology. The power requirements must be enormous. Even simple maintenance must be extremely difficult, given your limited capabilities.
WEIR (sitting down again): We manage.
AMATERASU (insincerely): Of course, we believe you. (She looks at Camulus.) But I wonder what Ba’al would think if he were to receive intelligence that the weapon was temporarily out of commission.
CAMULUS (to his fellow System Lords): Hmm. He would come to this world to claim it for himself. The Tauri would be forced to destroy him.
AMATERASU: And we would have to give them nothing.

WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

WEIR: They could still try and draw Ba’al here, let him figure it out for them.
DANIEL: Yeah, that’s dangerous for them, because if we can’t power the weapon ...
WEIR: ... which we can’t ...
DANIEL: ... Ba’al would end up with both Earth *and* the Ancient outpost in his possession.

From Zero Hour: BRIEFING ROOM. Reynolds opens a case he brought back. Inside is a power device identical to the one that Jack brought back from Proklarush Taonas to work the Ancient chair in Antarctica.
REYNOLDS: It wasn’t plugged in.
GILMOR: What is it?
O'NEILL: It’s a ZPM.
GILMOR: What’s that?
LEE (coming into the room): A Zero Point Module. Um, it’s an Ancient power source that draws its energy from subspace.
REYNOLDS: It’s the only thing powerful enough to activate the Ancient defence weapons SG-1 found down in Antarctica. The one we have is pretty much dead ...
(Lee has been running a gadget over the ZPM. The gadget starts beeping.)

REYNOLDS: That would most certainly provoke a reaction – possibly another attack on Earth.
DAVIS: But considering the fact that we now have a ZPM to power the Ancient defences, I don’t think ...

Moebius: DANIEL: Jack, think about it: with a fully functional ZPM we could power Earth’s defences and open up a wormhole to the Pegasus galaxy.

Not to mention the fact that Alternative-Universe Mitchell thought that coming to our Earth to steal our ZPM would be the best shot of fighting off the Ori. Which would be sort of hard to believe if there were < 10.

But go on. Feel free to keep telling us about how the reason they can't use the outpost is due to a lack of drones, rather than a lack of power. If it helps to call us thich-headed for saying otherwise, then by all means, troll away. It just makes you look more and more credible with every post you make.

So what, the fact that the ZPM is tainted is going to magically change the number of drones they have in storage? Man, Camulus must sure be crafty.

Because my point was that the reason they couldn't power the defensive chair in Antartica was due to a lack of power, rather than a lack of drones (as you claimed.). How does the fact that they can't use their chair anymore because they no longer have a viable power supply in anyway change that point?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't. In fact, it proves my point entirely. But thank you for pointing out that piece of information.

From "Rising": MCKAY: The 0 point module General. The ancient power source you recovered from quator kanas and is now powering the outpost's defenses.

In other words, they already had a chance to check the number of drones available, before the ZPM was drained, and before the Zero Hour took place.

New Order begs to differ: WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

So you have two reasons, the fact that Jack isn't awake to operate it, and the fact that they don't have power. But feel free to continue attributing it to a lack of drones.

I Have had to cut the rest of the jigsaw that you call a post out, otherwise the message is far too long to be posted up!



Your first quote, that says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding anything relevant to the discussion. What that we knows it's an advanced piece of ancient tech. Guess what! We already knew that!!!!!

Your second quote, what exactly does that prove, that they thought about bringing O'Neill out of stasis just incase. So here's my point, 1. O'Neill was the only one with ancient knowledge & so he would know eiother how to create or even find more weapons. 2. Nobody else had figured out the gene by this time because it had only been at least a couple of weeks since 'The Lost City II' & 'New Order', so they were unable to operate the chair & get a rough estimate if there was any left over or not, simply because they didn't know that only people with the gene would be able to activate the chair. At that point it was still in the hands of the SGC, only when the other nations were brought in would people like Beckett be able to figure out & isolate the ATA gene. Wow, you really showed me there, didn't you!

3rd quote, again as before, the ZPM had power but they didn't know about the gene & so even though the ZPM well had enough power in it. They couldn't get it to power the chair up again, because they hadn't managed to isolate the ATA gene. Which was only done when the international community was brought into the loop about the outpost. Again you showed me up on that one! ;)

4th quote, this is really bizarre now. Because in 'Zero Hour', it's obvious that the ZPM was pretty much done for, since by then they had ALREADY USED IT AGAIN TO DIAL ATLANTIS FOR A FEW MINUTES. Dialling another galaxy will pretty much do that, to an already severely depleted ZPM. However you mustthink that you actually proved something with it, so again you caught me out! :P (HaHaHa)

5th quote, again totally bizarre. When Reynolds said that he THOUGHT that they had a brand new fully working ZPM. However it turned out later on in the episode that it was infact tainted & so proved to be that as before they had NOTHING! Goodness FIVE in a row. You really love all this quoting crap. You must do a heck of a lot of transcript reading. Shame that you don't actually watch them or at least try to comprehend exactly what you are reading. Otherwise you wouldn't be quoting 99% of these in the vain hope of actually trying to make yourself seem knowledgeable of it.

6th quote (from Moebius), Again this shows, proves, or says absolutely nothing that is relevant to the discussion. Everybody already knows that the ZPM could do. Heck if they had managed to get the 5 ZPM's from the list that Janus gave them, then they'd be able to fly the city & chuck their **** out of the balaconies while in space. The problem is that the one that they got was originally for Earth BUT was later found that Atlantis needed it urgently. So it was sent there. That showed me up for the 6th post in a row. Keep up the good work, your on a serious roll now!

Now the part about the alternate universe Mitchell, Huh!!!!!!! He wasn't coming to take Drones from the outpost, he was going to ATLANTIS to take the ZPM of which it's almost full. So in their universe which wasn't the same as this one, then there are DIFFERENCES between them. Although let's see if you can quote up more keek to show that they were an exact match. In their reality, it's possible that they took all the Drones from Atlantis & the PJ's then took them to Earth, however the ZPM was depeleted because of the Wraith bombarding the shield. See, that shows nothing, especially since your trying to pass of their alternate reality as an exact duplicate of this, which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life!!! In reading through all your irrelevant quotes that were copied & pasted from transcripts, I'm actually beginning to develop eye strain & a headache that seems like my brain has shrunk to a similar level like yours.

Go on about what, call us 'thich' headed. Not us buddy YOU! You don't even know how to spell the word properly. Type it with me now, THICK & again THICK....once more for quote boy, THICK.

Now more of the same, you say that the tainted ZPM will change the amount of ZPM's that they have in storage. No I was not saying anything like that. I simply put that they couldn't even attempt to use it to even find out, how many was left. See that wasn't so hard now was it!

You then put the bit of me proving your point for you, which BTW makes no sense to me at all, since it's been strung together and ends up as complete gibberish. So I'll have to take a rain check on that, because I don't have the slightest idea of what you were actually trying (& failed miserably) state.

Next you move to 'Rising', which still doesn't prove anything. The ZPM still had power & so would under the technical term still be 'powering it'. Because they could still use the chair & anything else in the outpost. Besides I never said that they didn't have any Drones left, I simply stated that they don't have enough of them. It only took 2 to take out a Mothership, so if they have a dozen or so, then Anubis was taken care of & so the Goa'uld would as before send a single ship. Which a dozen Drones wouldn't be a problem in taking care of. This was months after 'The Lost City', so by now Beckett had already managed to isolate the ATA gene.

Which brings me to my next point.
quator kanas

Wtf! It's Proclarush Taonas. This really shows that your the next upcoming McKay in knowing everything that you talk about! You are reading through things that weren't even said in the episode, then more embarrassingly are quoting them here as your source! ROTFLMAO :cameron:

Read Here (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/planets/p/proclarush.shtml)

Next you move back to 'New Order', again this shows you up. It shows 2 things. No it doesn't. We know the ZPM had well enough power because it was later used to open a wormhole to another galaxy for a few whole minutes. Considering a MKII can fire a few dozen Drones & is 6 times more powerul than a MKI. Which were combined with a PJ's engine to allow the gate to dial Earth for an amazing 1.3 secs. So there wasn't enough power. Okay, you believe that firing Drones draws more power than dialling another galaxy if you really want to!

Sorry, but I really can't read through anymore of this tripe. Especially just seeing the fact that you felt the need to try & prove something else when you posted again after this. Which after having to force myself to reply again to you above, then I fear I may end up with permanent brain freeze if I go on any further with you.

AscendedWarrior
January 27th, 2006, 05:31 AM
Does anyone read the long threads?

And you can't make a fleet of time machines, because you will get to an alternate universe when you go back in time.

When i think about it, you could be able to but you have to be in the universe the time machines end up in:D.

Schrodinger82
January 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM
Your first quote, that says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding anything relevant to the discussion. What that we knows it's an advanced piece of ancient tech.

The discussion is about whether the issue of the outpost is a lack of drones, or a lack of power. This quote of one of many which suggests that the primary obstacle to running the outpost is the fact that "The power requirements must be enormous. Even simple maintenance must be extremely difficult, given your limited capabilities," and NOT due to a lack of drones.


Your second quote, what exactly does that prove, that they thought about bringing O'Neill out of stasis just incase. So here's my point, 1. O'Neill was the only one with ancient knowledge & so he would know eiother how to create or even find more weapons.Oh, right, that's EXACTLY what they meant. They would revive a barely Jack from the verge of death and have him MacGuyver thousands upon thousands of drones, one by one from common household objects.


2. Nobody else had figured out the gene by this time because it had only been at least a couple of weeks since 'The Lost City II' & 'New Order', so they were unable to operate the chair & get a rough estimate if there was any left over or not, simply because they didn't know that only people with the gene would be able to activate the chair.

Way to contradict yourself. Again. So you insist that they no idea how many drones they actually, while still insisting that they knew with absolute certainty that it would be roughly less than ten. Which is it? Do they know, or don't they?


At that point it was still in the hands of the SGC, only when the other nations were brought in would people like Beckett be able to figure out & isolate the ATA gene.

Which means that for all they knew, there would still be thousands of the things. Which isn't exactly hard to believe, given the fact that this was their initial assumptions on the Atlantis Outpost by the time we get to "The Siege."


3rd quote, again as before, the ZPM had power but they didn't know about the gene & so even though the ZPM well had enough power in it.

Originally Posted by Wraith_Hunter
Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

Note the parts that I bolded. You just answered your own question. And completely disproved your original assertion in the process. Thanks for the help there, buddy.

According to you, the events of New Order conclusively proved that there weren't enough drones. Now you're saying that the events of New Orders proves that they didn't have any idea of how many drones they actually had. So which is it?


Again you showed me up on that one! ;)

No dude, you showed yourself.


4th quote, this is really bizarre now. Because in 'Zero Hour', it's obvious that the ZPM was pretty much done for, since by then they had ALREADY USED IT AGAIN TO DIAL ATLANTIS FOR A FEW MINUTES.

And all that time they had to study the outpost BEFORE they dialed for Atlantis? What then? Apparently it was enough time for Beckett to discover the Ancient gene and for Rodney to get tested twice, so it probably should have been enough time for Rodney to run a few tests on the facility. Which, you know... we saw him doing anyway.

In fact, when Sheppard uses the chair in Atlantis for the first time, what's the first thing that Rodney does? Oh yeah, that's right... check the number of drones. Something that he would have had PLENTY of time to do when they were on Earth.


5th quote, again totally bizarre. When Reynolds said that he THOUGHT that they had a brand new fully working ZPM.

...which would be sufficient to power Earth's defenses against a full scale attack from both the Gou'ald and the Jaffa.

Explain how they do that with less than ten drones, fully working ZPM or no.


6th quote (from Moebius), Again this shows, proves, or says absolutely nothing that is relevant to the discussion. Everybody already knows that the ZPM could do.

Yes, which would not be possible if the Outpost didn't still have a large stock of drones.


Now the part about the alternate universe Mitchell, Huh!!!!!!! He wasn't coming to take Drones from the outpost, he was going to ATLANTIS to take the ZPM of which it's almost full. So in their universe which wasn't the same as this one, then there are DIFFERENCES between them.

The only difference that matter is whether or not the events of Lost City still occurred, because that's the event which would have supposedly exhausted Earth's supply of drones.

Now, why was Mitchell hired in the first place? Oh yeah, that's right... because of the tremendous heroism that he displayed as a result of "Lost City," including the following hospital stays and what not.


In their reality, it's possible that they took all the Drones from Atlantis & the PJ's then took them to Earth, however the ZPM was depeleted because of the Wraith bombarding the shield.

Oh wow, a few dozen drones. That'll stop the Ori.


Now more of the same, you say that the tainted ZPM will change the amount of ZPM's that they have in storage. No I was not saying anything like that. I simply put that they couldn't even attempt to use it to even find out, how many was left.

And yet you already stated with absolute certainty that the events of "New Order" reveals that there must be less than ten. Yet by Zero Hour, they still don't know?


Next you move to 'Rising', which still doesn't prove anything. The ZPM still had power & so would under the technical term still be 'powering it'. Because they could still use the chair & anything else in the outpost.

Which means that they had ample time and ability to run tests. Considering that this was the first thing Rodney did for the chair at Atlantis...


Besides I never said that they didn't have any Drones left, I simply stated that they don't have enough of them.

Which they would somehow know without bothering to check it out, based solely on the fact that they couldn't fire another shot in "New Order" (even though you already mentioned the ATA gene as an alternate explanation.)


It only took 2 to take out a Mothership,

Yes, a dozen later.


so if they have a dozen or so, then Anubis was taken care of & so the Goa'uld would as before send a single ship. Which a dozen Drones wouldn't be a problem in taking care of.

Yes. Because at a rate of two drones per mothership, it's not like the Gou'ald and the Jaffa together could possibly summon more than 6 ships. What was it that Jacob said about Gou'ald strategies again?

JACOB: No, he's making a typical Goa'uld mistake. He's defending territory at the expense of resources. (He sighs.) We can send him a message through the undercover Tok'Ra in his midst. We could suggest a change in strategy.


Wtf! It's Proclarush Taonas. This really shows that your the next upcoming McKay in knowing everything that you talk about! You are reading through things that weren't even said in the episode, then more embarrassingly are quoting them here as your source! ROTFLMAO :cameron:

Read Here (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/planets/p/proclarush.shtml)

Yeah, dude, it's called a transcript. One that was typed up by hand immediately after the episode aired. But I love how instead of addressing the actual point, all you can do is attack the spelling of a planet that doesn't exist that was written in a made-up language.

You may win the spelling bee, but you lose on facts.


Next you move back to 'New Order', again this shows you up. It shows 2 things. No it doesn't. We know the ZPM had well enough power because it was later used to open a wormhole to another galaxy for a few whole minutes. Considering a MKII can fire a few dozen Drones & is 6 times more powerul than a MKI.

Wow, a few dozen. And the last full scale attack had them use how many drones again?

Besides, all this proves is that they COULDN'T have less than ten drones. Why? Becuase if they did, then they wouldn't have to worry about powering Earth's outpost ever again. THey would already have more than enough to power their entire armory from a single Mark II, with plenty of power to spare.

Again, way to contradict yourself.


Which were combined with a PJ's engine to allow the gate to dial Earth for an amazing 1.3 secs.

Wow, wrong again. The Mark II didn't even exist on the show when they pulled that stunt.

But then, you've already established time and time again that facts don't matter to you. Only spelling does.


Okay, you believe that firing Drones draws more power than dialling another galaxy if you really want to!

THat depends entirely on how many drones. There's a big difference between firing off a dozen or so drones a few hundred feet high to repel a few darts, and firing off a few THOUSAND drones and high orbit to repel a full scale attack.


Sorry, but I really can't read through anymore of this tripe.

Of course not. If I were getting owned like you've been, I wouldn't want to read it either. "Duh! We all know with absolute certainty that there wouldn't be more than 10 drones, because that's the only reason they wouldn't use the weapon! But you're an idiot if you think that they would know how many drones they would have, because they didn't know about the ancient gene, and couldn't run it! But the fact that they couldn't run it is proof that they didn't have enough drones, because otherwise, they would have used the weapon! Is it really that hard to figure out?"

Just out of curiosity, can I have a show of hands here? Is there anyone on this board who DOESN'T think that Wraith Hunter is a complete idiot based on the above contradictions? Just curious.

Ascended Times.2
January 27th, 2006, 05:53 AM
Wraith Hunter.

I have been reading your posts and the largest thing that jumps out is HOW MANY TIMES YOU INSULT YOUR FELLOW GATEWORLDIANS.

I do not care how much you want to prove your point, how eager you are to make a righteous stand, you DO NOT INSULT FELLOW MEMBERS. I don't care if they've stated the Earth is flat, no matter how "stupid" you may think they are and how incorrect, you still don't do it.

And for this, my chum, you get red
I can assure you, if I see you insulting your fellow members again, you will get alot more red and some reportings in the future.

Please try to prove your point without resulting to such vulgar and lowly tactics as insulting the other Gateworldians.
We are all people here, they are simply trying to debate with you on this subject, if you proove them wrong, do not flaunt it over them.

And this goes for the rest of you, please do not insult your fellow GW members.

Please and Thank you ~Ascended Times.2~

Bragi
February 4th, 2006, 10:13 AM
I was going to post this in a reply to the Ori Satellite (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=23414) thread, but I was rambling on like I tend to do and it was a very long reply. Since this is an SG-1 thread with a spoiler warning in the title, I didn't turn the SG-1 material white. It does contain some Atlantis stuff though, so that I did turn white. Anyway, here it goes:

What has me worried about Ancient tech vs. Ori tech comes from an Atlantis episode. ATLANTIS SPOILER Highlight to read.
McKay was trying to control a power generator on an Ancient planet. The generator was basically a ZPM but it drew zero-point energy from our dimension instead of subspace. Anyway... McKay ended up blowing up half a solar system.

But that's neither here, nor there. Just before the thing went Chernobyl it began firing the weapon it was powering as a kind of release valve. Now, this weapon was powerful enough to take out several Hive ships.... not to mention every structure on the planet.... *cough... cough.* And it would've been powerful enough to take out a Puddle Jumper had Caldwell not been spying on McKay and Sheppard's progress. Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand several blasts from this weapon.

If Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand that, but Prometheus' shields couldn't take even one hit from the Ori weapon... well.... maybe Ancient tech isn't the answer.

I do see a silver lining, however and it's is two fold: One, Daedalus' shields are much stronger than Prometheus'. Two (and this one is a lot more fun), the Ori Sattelite was a long, continuous pulse of energy which impacts and then drills through the target. The Ancient Weapon fired in short bursts which impacted on the surface and then dissipated their energy over a wide area.

Think of it in terms of primitive weaponry: You have a shield. You fire an arrow at that shield and it will penetrate, because all of the kinetic energy of that arrow is contentrated on a single point which continues through the target; it's just not a lot of energy, so it gets stopped quickly. You launch a stone with a sling-shot at that shield and it will impact the shield and dent it, but it won't penetrate. You've caused nearly damage using both (a bow releases more potential energy than a sling-shot), but the arrow, being concentrated on a single point, is able to penetrate through.

Now, as we saw against Anubis' fleet, the Drones will pass right through ships (and shields). They're not long beams like the Ori satellite, but they are "arrows," not "stones." In fact, Drones are better than this Ori beam weapon. The Ori beam fires once and that's it. It's simply a whole lot of energy that cannot be controlled and will eventually dissapate. Drones are little missles packed with energy, they're controllable and they could theoretically fly around so long as they have power to continue propulsion.

If the Drones can be precisely controlled, then whoever is in the chair can launch a volley of Drones, have them penetrate into the attacking ship and then detonate midway through. Basically like how our real-life "bunker buster" bombs or KE rounds work. So it would seem that the answer is to borrow some Puddle Jumpers from Atlantis. So I guess the black SG-1 was almost right...

Of course, I'm not a writer so this is all entirely academic. Still, it's part of the fun of being a fan.

Valisnor
February 4th, 2006, 10:27 AM
I was going to post this in a reply to the Ori Satellite (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=23414) thread, but I was rambling on like I tend to do and it was a very long reply. Since this is an SG-1 thread with a spoiler warning in the title, I didn't turn the SG-1 material white. It does contain some Atlantis stuff though, so that I did turn white. Anyway, here it goes:

What has me worried about Ancient tech vs. Ori tech comes from an Atlantis episode. ATLANTIS SPOILER Highlight to read.
McKay was trying to control a power generator on an Ancient planet. The generator was basically a ZPM but it drew zero-point energy from our dimension instead of subspace. Anyway... McKay ended up blowing up half a solar system.

But that's neither here, nor there. Just before the thing went Chernobyl it began firing the weapon it was powering as a kind of release valve. Now, this weapon was powerful enough to take out several Hive ships.... not to mention every structure on the planet.... *cough... cough.* And it would've been powerful enough to take out a Puddle Jumper had Caldwell not been spying on McKay and Sheppard's progress. Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand several blasts from this weapon.

If Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand that, but Prometheus' shields couldn't take even one hit from the Ori weapon... well.... maybe Ancient tech isn't the answer.

I do see a silver lining, however and it's is two fold: One, Daedalus' shields are much stronger than Prometheus'. Two (and this one is a lot more fun), the Ori Sattelite was a long, continuous pulse of energy which impacts and then drills through the target. The Ancient Weapon fired in short bursts which impacted on the surface and then dissipated their energy over a wide area.

Think of it in terms of primitive weaponry: You have a shield. You fire an arrow at that shield and it will penetrate, because all of the kinetic energy of that arrow is contentrated on a single point which continues through the target; it's just not a lot of energy, so it gets stopped quickly. You launch a stone with a sling-shot at that shield and it will impact the shield and dent it, but it won't penetrate. You've caused nearly damage using both (a bow releases more potential energy than a sling-shot), but the arrow, being concentrated on a single point, is able to penetrate through.

Now, as we saw against Anubis' fleet, the Drones will pass right through ships (and shields). They're not long beams like the Ori satellite, but they are "arrows," not "stones." In fact, Drones are better than this Ori beam weapon. The Ori beam fires once and that's it. It's simply a whole lot of energy that cannot be controlled and will eventually dissapate. Drones are little missles packed with energy, they're controllable and they could theoretically fly around so long as they have power to continue propulsion.

If the Drones can be precisely controlled, then whoever is in the chair can launch a volley of Drones, have them penetrate into the attacking ship and then detonate midway through. Basically like how our real-life "bunker buster" bombs or KE rounds work. So it would seem that the answer is to borrow some Puddle Jumpers from Atlantis. So I guess the black SG-1 was almost right...

Of course, I'm not a writer so this is all entirely academic. Still, it's part of the fun of being a fan.
This is a novel idea and they just might work problem is that puddle jumpers dont have them.

freyr's mother
February 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Sure the drones may be a better weapon than the ori satellite, but there is no evidence that the drones could penetrate an ori shield.

Bragi
February 4th, 2006, 03:55 PM
Sure the drones may be a better weapon than the ori satellite, but there is no evidence that the drones could penetrate an ori shield.

No... there isn't. That's what the term "academic" means. It's pie in the sky, theorizing, speculating. You know, tossing ideas around.

However, the Drones did penetrate Anubis' shields. Goa'uld technolgoy, augmented using quasi-Ancient technology and an ascended being's understanding of things. Based on that having been the case, from a writer's perspective, I would put forward that Drones can penetrate Ori designed shields.

Again, this is simply academic. I'm not a writer, wish I were, but whatever they end up deciding is what we'll be stuck with. Frankly, other than black SG-1 trying to get the ZPM to try out the Drones, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers haven't even gotten this far yet.

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 04:04 PM
the trinity weapon and ori satelite are 2 very different things

JUNIOR
February 4th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Ori Satellite was given to Rand by Priors via post ascended Ori (Greater understanding of universe, and all things in general). The trinity weapon was built by regular old mortal Ancients. I assume that the ascended Ori weapon was vastly superior then the trinity weapon in the fire power because the Ori weapon penetrated the same type of shield that the trinity weapon couldn’t on the Daedalus.

Giantevilhead
February 4th, 2006, 09:36 PM
To beat the Ori, they would have to use the same methods as the Ori so forget drones and ZPM's. The Ori feed off the willpower of their followers so earth needs a similar approach. They need to go the planet in the very center of the universe, build a giant green Central Battery there and recruit 3,600 individuals of strong moral character, and give them each a ring powered by the Central Battery that allow the wielder to create manifestations of any size or shape, limited only by their imagination and willpower. Let's see how those Ori shields would fare against the combined willpower of every individual in the universe.

Helo
February 4th, 2006, 09:54 PM
I was going to post this in a reply to the Ori Satellite (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=23414) thread, but I was rambling on like I tend to do and it was a very long reply. Since this is an SG-1 thread with a spoiler warning in the title, I didn't turn the SG-1 material white. It does contain some Atlantis stuff though, so that I did turn white. Anyway, here it goes:

What has me worried about Ancient tech vs. Ori tech comes from an Atlantis episode. ATLANTIS SPOILER Highlight to read.
McKay was trying to control a power generator on an Ancient planet. The generator was basically a ZPM but it drew zero-point energy from our dimension instead of subspace. Anyway... McKay ended up blowing up half a solar system.

But that's neither here, nor there. Just before the thing went Chernobyl it began firing the weapon it was powering as a kind of release valve. Now, this weapon was powerful enough to take out several Hive ships.... not to mention every structure on the planet.... *cough... cough.* And it would've been powerful enough to take out a Puddle Jumper had Caldwell not been spying on McKay and Sheppard's progress. Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand several blasts from this weapon.

If Daedalus' shields were strong enough to withstand that, but Prometheus' shields couldn't take even one hit from the Ori weapon... well.... maybe Ancient tech isn't the answer.

I do see a silver lining, however and it's is two fold: One, Daedalus' shields are much stronger than Prometheus'. Two (and this one is a lot more fun), the Ori Sattelite was a long, continuous pulse of energy which impacts and then drills through the target. The Ancient Weapon fired in short bursts which impacted on the surface and then dissipated their energy over a wide area.

Think of it in terms of primitive weaponry: You have a shield. You fire an arrow at that shield and it will penetrate, because all of the kinetic energy of that arrow is contentrated on a single point which continues through the target; it's just not a lot of energy, so it gets stopped quickly. You launch a stone with a sling-shot at that shield and it will impact the shield and dent it, but it won't penetrate. You've caused nearly damage using both (a bow releases more potential energy than a sling-shot), but the arrow, being concentrated on a single point, is able to penetrate through.

Now, as we saw against Anubis' fleet, the Drones will pass right through ships (and shields). They're not long beams like the Ori satellite, but they are "arrows," not "stones." In fact, Drones are better than this Ori beam weapon. The Ori beam fires once and that's it. It's simply a whole lot of energy that cannot be controlled and will eventually dissapate. Drones are little missles packed with energy, they're controllable and they could theoretically fly around so long as they have power to continue propulsion.

If the Drones can be precisely controlled, then whoever is in the chair can launch a volley of Drones, have them penetrate into the attacking ship and then detonate midway through. Basically like how our real-life "bunker buster" bombs or KE rounds work. So it would seem that the answer is to borrow some Puddle Jumpers from Atlantis. So I guess the black SG-1 was almost right...

Of course, I'm not a writer so this is all entirely academic. Still, it's part of the fun of being a fan.

I told pretty much that exact thing to my friend today. Thats so wierd.

the fifth man
February 4th, 2006, 10:01 PM
The drone idea is an interesting theory. Worth a try, at least. Something is going to have to be found to counter this new threatening Ori tech. Or Earth is really screwed.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2006, 11:34 PM
To beat the Ori, they would have to use the same methods as the Ori so forget drones and ZPM's. The Ori feed off the willpower of their followers so earth needs a similar approach. They need to go the planet in the very center of the universe, build a giant green Central Battery there and recruit 3,600 individuals of strong moral character, and give them each a ring powered by the Central Battery that allow the wielder to create manifestations of any size or shape, limited only by their imagination and willpower. Let's see how those Ori shields would fare against the combined willpower of every individual in the universe.

Methinks you've been watching too much Justice League on Cartoon Network.

On that note, all they need to do is recruit the android Amazo (who, ironically enough, was voiced by Robert Picardo, aka "Woolsey").

Giantevilhead
February 5th, 2006, 11:36 AM
The Ori reminds me a lot about the Guardians of the Universe. Both the Ori and the Guardians of the universe are ancient, although the Guardians are probably older. They both have incredible powers. The Ori and the Ancients split into two different races millions of years ago, the Guardians and the Controllers split into two different races billions of years ago. The Ori feed off of the willpower of their followers, the Central Battery on Oa is powered by the collective willpower of every individual in the universe. The Prior's powers are similar to the Green Lantern's powers.

the fifth man
February 5th, 2006, 11:41 AM
The Ori reminds me a lot about the Guardians of the Universe. Both the Ori and the Guardians of the universe are ancient, although the Guardians are probably older. They both have incredible powers. The Ori and the Ancients split into two different races millions of years ago, the Guardians and the Controllers split into two different races billions of years ago. The Ori feed off of the willpower of their followers, the Central Battery on Oa is powered by the collective willpower of every individual in the universe. The Prior's powers are similar to the Green Lantern's powers.

I must say, you make a very interesting comparison.:)

Wraith_Hunter
February 5th, 2006, 12:54 PM
For Prometheus, when it was initially launched it had, Asgard desinged tech, however recently they've had proper Asgard sensors installed, proper beaming tech, Teal'c said they had Asgard shields in 'Ethon' & we know it had the exact same Hyperdrive as Daedalus from 'Ripple Effect', so it seems to have pretty much the same as Daedalus, minus the Asgard engineer. So in all honesty, I don't see even Daedalus being able to withstand it, unless it was boosted with a ZPM when it came up against it.

Simply put Drones are the only answer that Earth has just now. They don't have energy weapons just now, standard warheads won't do crap. We have seen this in 'Beachhead', where a shield from a Prior couldn't be penetrated with weapons from Prometheus, and again also against the Ori designed sat weapons platform. Which was far weaker, Ori designed but constructed with vastly inferior Rand tech.

Overall the beams that the sat weapons produce, seem superior to anything else. The only reason that the weapon couldn't fire multiple bursts was because it was using inferior tech. It was almost identical in nature to that of the one seen in 'The Siege I'. They but cut right through the ship & cut them in half. Which if they could even harness the inferior rand one, then I don't see any type of ship being able to stand it for long.

The amount of Drones to do that to something the size of a Hive ship would be quite a lot. So being that they don't have enough Drones to even combat a few Wraith ships, their cruisers etc, then they really would have a choice to make.

Strip Atlantis of it's Drones & Jumpers, take them back to the MW via Daedalus & use them to combat the Ori ships. They probably wouldn't be anywhere near enough, but it's better than doing nothing.

Since Prommie could'nt even dent either of the two Ori shields that's been seen before, then the ones on this ships will be far, far superior. So barring the Drones, then I really don't see what they can honestly do. Even the Jaffa weapons, only went to power the shield strength. So if the Ori ships also zap up energy, then we're all seriously in trouble.

NakedJehutyV2
February 5th, 2006, 01:38 PM
The Ori reminds me a lot about the Guardians of the Universe. Both the Ori and the Guardians of the universe are ancient, although the Guardians are probably older. They both have incredible powers. The Ori and the Ancients split into two different races millions of years ago, the Guardians and the Controllers split into two different races billions of years ago. The Ori feed off of the willpower of their followers, the Central Battery on Oa is powered by the collective willpower of every individual in the universe. The Prior's powers are similar to the Green Lantern's powers.


difference is that the guardians are still corporeal, mortal beings while ori and alterrans are god like

KRiZ
February 5th, 2006, 04:41 PM
The Ori reminds me a lot about the Guardians of the Universe. Both the Ori and the Guardians of the universe are ancient, although the Guardians are probably older. They both have incredible powers. The Ori and the Ancients split into two different races millions of years ago, the Guardians and the Controllers split into two different races billions of years ago. The Ori feed off of the willpower of their followers, the Central Battery on Oa is powered by the collective willpower of every individual in the universe. The Prior's powers are similar to the Green Lantern's powers.

Except Priors can affect things which are yellow, the one flaw in a Green Lanterns power...

Giantevilhead
February 5th, 2006, 04:41 PM
The Guardian might be coporeal but they do have godlike powers and they would so kick the Ori's butt.

The Priors may be able to affect yellow but Green Lanterns can do a lot more stuff than Priors. The power ring is one of the most powerful weapons in the entire DC universe.

The satellite probably wasn't really that powerful. They didn't say anything about the Prior giving the Rannd a new energy source for the weapon. From what we can tell, the Prometheus hit the satellite with only conventional weapons, not nukes. The second shot from the satellite did around the same damage as the first shot even though the Prometheus had no shields and the third shot didn't even penetrate the Prometheus entirely so maybe the weapon was designed to penetrate shields.

verbalkint
February 15th, 2006, 07:18 PM
give the Asgard a drone to study and replicate. Kind of like how Thor took the schematics O'Neill did for the replicator weapon and synthesized it I believe the Asgard should be capable of doing the same thing with a physical object. That way we could ask the Asgard to replicate them by the thousands and if we know a Wraith armada is approaching we could have a stockpile of drones and just turn on the city shield and let the drones search and destroy the entire freaking armada. I believe the ancients intentions were only to defend Atlantis and their civilization, not to annihilate the Wraith. Luckily, we haven't progressed that far in our mental makeup to be so considerate. Remember how the Asgard couldn't figure out means to effectively attack the Replicators? Sometimes simple and dumb can be effective.

Auralis
February 15th, 2006, 07:27 PM
That would actually make sense, i doubt the writers will use that idea, since lately
they seem on the trip to generate pllots by retarted character behavior.

verbalkint
February 15th, 2006, 07:36 PM
That would actually make sense, i doubt the writers will use that idea, since lately
they seem on the trip to generate pllots by retarted character behavior.
"...retarded character behavior", LOL yet its as true as it is funny.

XxDark-LordxX
February 15th, 2006, 08:00 PM
they obviously dont want cuntruction of techs easy because then that would require introducing new techs

metroid
February 15th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Let's not forget the asgard will never gave us weapons we could use against them, so i think it's highly unlikely that they would create thousands of drones for us. Even a few hundred could possibly deal a major blow to the asgard.

edit: (don't forget the drones went straight through anubis' shields where anubis had shields capable of holding off asgard weapons.)

XxDark-LordxX
February 16th, 2006, 12:15 AM
yup... azgard wont help... they cant even figure those things out themselves... i remember them talking about only scratching he ancient data base's surface somewhere... ancients knew way too much

V-MAN
February 16th, 2006, 07:03 AM
yup... azgard wont help... they cant even figure those things out themselves... i remember them talking about only scratching he ancient data base's surface somewhere... ancients knew way too much

That's probably due the data base being so huge, you could trawl through it for years and find rubbish like songs written by the ancients or recipies for a tasty stew. Instead of finding good sh*t like how to make ZPMs.

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 16th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Wouldnt the Asgard also be more focused on their own rebuilding then helping earth?

ancientaction
February 16th, 2006, 09:11 AM
the Asguard should help us. the ori threat is there, and they are targets as well. same for the wraith, if the wraith find the asgard, man are they gonna have fun, think about it.

the asgard are nothing but clones. its kinda like a food replicator on star trek. unlimited amount of food. (assuming the asgard taste good, lol)

so with two enemys on the front, the asgard should be helping us.

lethalfang
February 16th, 2006, 09:23 AM
Let's not forget the asgard will never gave us weapons we could use against them, so i think it's highly unlikely that they would create thousands of drones for us. Even a few hundred could possibly deal a major blow to the asgard.

edit: (don't forget the drones went straight through anubis' shields where anubis had shields capable of holding off asgard weapons.)

Fine. They can keep the drones. Just make sure the next time we call them on their cell phones, they agree to get their asses with their motherships here within 5 minutes.

Bragi
February 16th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Well.... if the Asgard suddenly start duplicating Drones then you can honestly say you had the idea first.

Exiled Master
February 17th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Let's not forget the asgard will never gave us weapons we could use against them, so i think it's highly unlikely that they would create thousands of drones for us. Even a few hundred could possibly deal a major blow to the asgard.

edit: (don't forget the drones went straight through anubis' shields where anubis had shields capable of holding off asgard weapons.)
Argh! I hate rules like that. But the writers were smart in the way they did that. The Asgard really need to have their own unique tech, or even abilities. I''ve always thought it was stupid that with heads that size :thor: couldn't just make someone's head explode or at least make them pass out.

RobJones
February 18th, 2006, 07:06 AM
either that, or the asgard (for lack of a better word) replicators (as in trek not spiders :P) cant created things that have to much information to handle. Drones are obviously a very soffisticated peice of technology, maybe the repi things just cant handle the information needed to duplicate, or maybe its just a lack of understanding on how drones work?

kefke20
February 18th, 2006, 01:31 PM
the Asguard should help us. the ori threat is there, and they are targets as well. same for the wraith, if the wraith find the asgard, man are they gonna have fun, think about it.

the asgard are nothing but clones. its kinda like a food replicator on star trek. unlimited amount of food. (assuming the asgard taste good, lol)

so with two enemys on the front, the asgard should be helping us.

if the time comes the asgart will wipe out the wrait whit eas

and i hope the asgard will gif the tau`rie some wheet wapens till we can revers engenier the drones

cooky
February 19th, 2006, 09:40 AM
One place to go would be the volcano world from Lost City. It's drones are probly burried under the rubble, but with Asgard beaming tech, harvesting them would be easy. Given that outposts similarity to the one in Antartica, we'd probly get several thousand drones from there. Other potential planets with Ancient Defense Outposts are Da'kara and the Sodan world(though those drones would belong to the Jaffa) as well as the planets from Window of Opportunity, Fallen, and the other planet in LC that had the library.

Unfortunatelly, since we can't control the drones effectivelly without an ancient controll system, either a chair or jumper, putting them on our ships would be pointless. At least for now.

da_hippie
February 19th, 2006, 09:56 AM
It'd make the whole 'defending Atlantis' thing rather easy.

Whoo! 600 posts!

Three PhDs
February 22nd, 2006, 03:53 AM
That's probably due the data base being so huge, you could trawl through it for years and find rubbish like songs written by the ancients or recipies for a tasty stew. Instead of finding good sh*t like how to make ZPMs.Any database worth its salt is designed in a manner which makes it easy to search, especially one tagged with metadata, linking related or relevant information together. In essence, the data wouldn't be extracted in a random order. It could be searched specifically for information pertaining to the ZPM or Gate design technology.

FallenAngelII
February 22nd, 2006, 06:36 AM
One place to go would be the volcano world from Lost City. It's drones are probly burried under the rubble, but with Asgard beaming tech, harvesting them would be easy. Given that outposts similarity to the one in Antartica, we'd probly get several thousand drones from there. Other potential planets with Ancient Defense Outposts are Da'kara and the Sodan world(though those drones would belong to the Jaffa) as well as the planets from Window of Opportunity, Fallen, and the other planet in LC that had the library.

Unfortunatelly, since we can't control the drones effectivelly without an ancient controll system, either a chair or jumper, putting them on our ships would be pointless. At least for now.

Actually, the "Inferno" outpost looked a lot... better than the Antarctic outpost. The Antarctic outpost was basically just one room (that we saw, anyway). The "Inferno" outpost looked like a mini-Atlantis that wasn't that small.

norbe
February 22nd, 2006, 11:58 AM
Here's an idea..

Why can't the SGA team simply attach a nuke from Deadalus to a drone, then use that to take out hive ships? We know that the nukes do enough damage to take out a hive ship. Seems like an easy solution.

Any thoughts anyone?

Auralis
February 22nd, 2006, 12:22 PM
Maybe the drone is not able to carry the nuke around at sufficient speed.
And a carefull aimed drone should be able to take a hive ship with a single shot, just plow it right through the reactor core of the hive.

norbe
February 22nd, 2006, 12:26 PM
You see i always thought it would take more than one drone to destroy a hive ship. Yes drones are powerful, but if it only took one to destroy a hive ship, then the Ancients couldn't have lost the war, as there are only a few hundred hives (max), and we know they would originally have had thousands of drones.

mckaychick
February 22nd, 2006, 12:29 PM
Yeah thats true if the ancient ships had the drones the war most likely would never have been lost

Stevos
February 22nd, 2006, 12:32 PM
I agree it would take dozens of drones to take out a hive ship maybe even hundreds.

We know the wraith currently have say a hundred hive ships, but i am guessing at the height of the war they may have had thousands, most of which got wiped out by the ancients. Without the needed food the waith never fully rebuilt.

Auralis
February 22nd, 2006, 01:10 PM
Well, we don't know how many drones it takes for a hive. But a Ha'Tak could taken out by O'Neill with just 3 drones.
And if a drone is able to penetrate the hull of a hive, it stands to reason it can fly through the wjole thing as well. What matters then is to actually hit a core system to trigger a chainreaction that destroys the hive. That i think is the most tricky part.
Since for that one needs to know where to aim for. And we don't know if the ancients had that information.
spolier for sga 220

Atlantis crew however does has that information. Even after it got delete they should still remember where the main reactor is.

NakedJehutyV2
February 22nd, 2006, 01:28 PM
drones are good enough without having to put primitive nukes on them

GateR_mk
February 22nd, 2006, 01:40 PM
Here's an idea..

Why can't the SGA team simply attach a nuke from Deadalus to a drone, then use that to take out hive ships? We know that the nukes do enough damage to take out a hive ship. Seems like an easy solution.

Any thoughts anyone?


Maybe the drones weren't built to carry the weight of the warhead. And where would they attach the nuke to? Drones aren't that big to begin with. and how would they attach it? with duct tape? Plus, they would probably have to completely rewire the drone in order to get it to detonate properly.

GateR_mk
February 22nd, 2006, 01:48 PM
Well, we don't know how many drones it takes for a hive. But a Ha'Tak could taken out by O'Neill with just 3 drones.
And if a drone is able to penetrate the hull of a hive, it stands to reason it can fly through the wjole thing as well. What matters then is to actually hit a core system to trigger a chainreaction that destroys the hive. That i think is the most tricky part.
Since for that one needs to know where to aim for. And we don't know if the ancients had that information.


Plus, the Atlanteans don't have that many drones to begin with. They used the last ones in the Seige II.
spoiler.
Even if you factor in the drones recovered from the tower, the Atlanteans will need every last drone they have when the Wraith mount another full scale attack. All the drones will be instead used for the city and the Orion

Keep in mind that the Wraith will return to Atlantis, and this time, they won't be fooled by a faked self-destruct.

ancientaction
February 22nd, 2006, 01:54 PM
it could be possible that the ancients had nuclear drones, they just used those up in the wraith war???...

or the current drones have the ability to be upgraded...

Wraith_Hunter
February 22nd, 2006, 01:55 PM
Here's an idea..

Why can't the SGA team simply attach a nuke from Deadalus to a drone, then use that to take out hive ships? We know that the nukes do enough damage to take out a hive ship. Seems like an easy solution.

Any thoughts anyone?

Simple, the warhead is many, many, many times the size & weight compared to that of a Drone. Even if it somehow could take the strain & actually fly with it strapped on, which I highly doubt btw, then it'll be considerably slowed down. So it'd be pretty easy to shoot down just like a standard missile.

If you want a more believeable option, why haven't we seen them cloak a PJ, fly aboard a Hive ship. Open the door, prime the nuke on a 60 sec timer. Put it out & take off.

As saw in 'Letters from Pegasus', the door is stealthed out completely when lowered. Therefore no risk at all is taken doing this, they get to the end of the lowered door, then let it roll the last few inches to the ground. The nuke would easily take out the Hive ship, Daedalus has a full armoury of them. SO being that it hasn't even been tried for over a year, really is quite unbelieveable to me.

ancientaction
February 22nd, 2006, 02:01 PM
that is a very very good idea, cloak the jumper, fly in, drop a nuke and fly off.... very very good idea...

freyr's mother
February 22nd, 2006, 03:00 PM
Put it on wheels and you can just slide it out the back of a cloaked jumper without exposing yourself.

Auralis
February 22nd, 2006, 04:48 PM
If you want a more believeable option, why haven't we seen them cloak a PJ, fly aboard a Hive ship. Open the door, prime the nuke on a 60 sec timer. Put it out & take off.


Its called stupifing the characters for not using the technological options availble to them for creating a plot or story.

they are at war, they need to realize that and act accordingly.
There is NO peace or truce with the wraith.
They want to eat us, all of us.
Kill them in every way you can think of, no other option.

The writers need to let the characters act that way, every other acting is just pure crap.