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MarshAngel
August 30th, 2005, 10:07 AM
I'm no scientist so I'm not sure this is plausible but...

Transporters, whether Asgard, Wraith, or the Star Trek versions store a person's pattern so they can rematerialize them right?
If that's the case, couldn't you simply store a previous pattern and have yourself rematerialized based on that pattern, say a younger version of yourself?

The fly in this plan is that you'd also lose any new memories formed after the pattern is stored... but if you're an Asgard you could always just save them and download them.

Does this make sense to anyone else but me?

It would be interesting to see someone using the method in the show.

Qasim
August 30th, 2005, 10:16 AM
Most physicists dont believe transporters could ever work

But in a fictional setting its possible

In Star Trek they said that the replicators couldnt clone people because replicators work at a 'molecular-level resolution' and transporters work at a 'quantum resolution'

The number of atoms in your body changes as you age - what if you got thinner where would you get the extra matter from?

Three PhDs
August 30th, 2005, 10:21 AM
Or they could just work on better medicinal technology. There was quite a stir on telomere research not too long ago.

ToasterOnFire
August 30th, 2005, 10:37 AM
Or they could just work on better medicinal technology. There was quite a stir on telomere research not too long ago.
True, but I don't know if any of that research has panned out. Telomerase is an enzyme that keeps DNA on the end of chromosomes from degrading each time the DNA is duplicated when a cell divides. Apparently later in life there is either less telomerase or it is less active, which some researchers think contributes to aging via chromosome degradation. They think that reactivating or preventing the telomerase from shutting down would help prevent aging, but I'm not completely convinced yet.

Also, keep in mind that telomerase has been reactivated in a lot of human cancers, presumably to prevent chromosomal degradation due to the cancer cell's increased division rate. So it's possible that keeping the telomerase on may actually lead to cancer, rather than or in addition to preventing aging. Any research in this area needs to take this into consideration.

MarshAngel
August 30th, 2005, 10:47 AM
Most physicists dont believe transporters could ever work

But in a fictional setting its possible

In Star Trek they said that the replicators couldnt clone people because replicators work at a 'molecular-level resolution' and transporters work at a 'quantum resolution'

The number of atoms in your body changes as you age - what if you got thinner where would you get the extra matter from?
Good point. The tedious and somewhat ridiculous solution to that is you'd have to do this everyday so that there are no significant changes. ie. Restore yourself at the end of each day to the pattern of that morning.

PrimalAscended
August 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Or more simply we could just "borrow" Asgard technology that allows them to download their consciousnesses into clones.............when you get old clone yourself a younger body and brain swap into it!

Would keep you going for a few thousand years at least ;)

ToasterOnFire
August 30th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Or more simply we could just "borrow" Asgard technology that allows them to download their consciousnesses into clones.............when you get old clone yourself a younger body and brain swap into it!

Would keep you going for a few thousand years at least ;)
As long as the consciousness database isn't running on Windows...

Blue screen of death indeed. :D

IMForeman
August 30th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Right now, there is only 1 sure fire cure for aging: death.

-IMF

Qasim
August 30th, 2005, 01:58 PM
Very funny IMF :D

MarshAngel
August 30th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Right now, there is only 1 sure fire cure for aging: death.

-IMF
Yes, it is very effective isn't it. And you don't even need a health plan to get it.

lethalfang
August 30th, 2005, 06:37 PM
True, but I don't know if any of that research has panned out. Telomerase is an enzyme that keeps DNA on the end of chromosomes from degrading each time the DNA is duplicated when a cell divides. Apparently later in life there is either less telomerase or it is less active, which some researchers think contributes to aging via chromosome degradation. They think that reactivating or preventing the telomerase from shutting down would help prevent aging, but I'm not completely convinced yet.

Also, keep in mind that telomerase has been reactivated in a lot of human cancers, presumably to prevent chromosomal degradation due to the cancer cell's increased division rate. So it's possible that keeping the telomerase on may actually lead to cancer, rather than or in addition to preventing aging. Any research in this area needs to take this into consideration.

The telomere is involved in the so-called "programmed cell death" mechanism, i.e. a cell can only divide so many times before it will no longer possess the ability to do so, and eventually die.
It's often attributed to aging.
However, cell death is a crucial part of cancer fighting mechanism in long-living species like us. Each time a cell divide, some mutations are bound to occur. Most of them are harmless, but if a cell divide enough times, the probability of a cancer causing mutation increases drastically.
Programmed Cell Death basically says, I'd rather have cells die than to have them mutate into cancerous cells. You can have cells replaced by going to your cell reservoir: stem cells. However, if the cells turn cancerous you are screwed.
Therefore, medical science must find ways to revert mutations before thinking about turning on telomerase to shut down Programmed Cell Death.

1DanielForMe
August 30th, 2005, 10:30 PM
Right now, there is only 1 sure fire cure for aging: death.

-IMFRight, and that's a perfectly fine and natural thing. I wholly resent the term "cure for aging", anyway. Getting older is not a disease, it's a natural part of our journey through life, not to mention it helps keep the world from becoming horribly overcrowded. I really don't understand people who want to live forever, or who get Botox (which is derived from a food bacteria, incidentally, people), instead of embracing their smile lines, forehead creases, and so on; "History Lines", I like to call them.
Anyway, that's how I feel about it.

Eoin
August 31st, 2005, 08:05 PM
Why not just buy anti-aging cream :P

IMForeman
September 2nd, 2005, 09:00 AM
It's unknown yet if their aging has been effected, but these Miracle Mice (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16417002%255E30417,00.html) can regenerate any organ but their brains.

-IMF

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 09:51 AM
u no for an advanced race like the asgard they shure are stupid

Three PhDs
September 2nd, 2005, 11:22 AM
At least they know how to spell and use acceptable grammar.

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 01:13 PM
its called "slang" for words that u dont want to spell and if i dont spell it right i dont realy care as long as its close what i mean and if u have a problem with it try and make me stop,eh

Three PhDs
September 2nd, 2005, 01:25 PM
its called "slang" for words that u dont want to spell and if i dont spell it right i dont realy care as long as its close what i mean and if u have a problem with it try and make me stop,eh
I just thought it comical you called someone stupid in a post with horrendous grammar. Delicious irony I thought.

aAnubiSs
September 2nd, 2005, 01:26 PM
its called "slang" for words that u dont want to spell and if i dont spell it right i dont realy care as long as its close what i mean and if u have a problem with it try and make me stop,eh
Typical attitude of someone trying to justify his or her lazyness, most often a male in his early to mid teenage years. If you can't bother writing proper english why should anyone waste time trying to read it?

1 m34n 1f w3'23 0n 7h3 5ubj3c7 0f n07 w2171n6 1n 3n6115h why 5s0u1d 4ny f02m b3 d1ff323n7 f20m 4n07h32?

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 02:49 PM
im 16 and yes i am lazzy i dont care if ppl can read wat i type so back and i didnt mean there stupid what i meant was that there to smart for there own good

lethalfang
September 2nd, 2005, 03:34 PM
im 16 and yes i am lazzy i dont care if ppl can read wat i type so back and i didnt mean there stupid what i meant was that there to smart for there own good

If you are 16, you must be in high school. It's time to write/type with correct spelling and grammar.
It's forgivable if you are 10.

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 03:40 PM
for the last time i dont care what other ppl think i can spell just fine i just choose not how bot that you cant stop me from spelling wrong so how come
you're making a big deal about this?????

ps im a senior

Three PhDs
September 2nd, 2005, 03:50 PM
im 16 and yes i am lazzy i dont care if ppl can read wat i type so back and i didnt mean there stupid what i meant was that there to smart for there own goodI'm not too smart for my own good, you're just too lazy for common courtesy. It's offensive.

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 03:59 PM
im not talking about u im talking about the asgard and i dont care about common curtisy

Blend
September 2nd, 2005, 04:10 PM
I started a thread long ago called "How long can ancients live" or somehting...

anyway in that thread somebody posted links to current real life attempts to cure ageing.
and there was an interesting discussion.
Ill see if i can locate it.



here:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6857

_Owen_
September 4th, 2005, 09:22 AM
Thank you, I will check it out, it sounds very interesting.

As for the offtopic disscussion of proper spelling and grammar. Allthough it is easier to read, it is not a necesity on the GateWorld Forum. If Captain Keys chooses to write without proper spelling, grammar, or puncuation, he may.

Owen Macri

kiwigater
September 6th, 2005, 02:34 AM
Absolutely he may :) And if, as he so eloquently said, he's too lazy and doesn't care what 'ppl" think of his spelling and grammar, well, I don't "care" to read his posts :)

On the subject of aging - interesting isn't it! I don't imagine using a transporter would be a great way to stay young - even without bringing this whole molecular vs quantum thing into it. I would think that by recreating yourself as an earlier version you'd lose all the changes since the last scan - including memories! :S Not an appealing thought to me :o :p

ETA: Oh, Three PhD's, in another post somwhere you were saying that the forum didn't mark what threads you'd posted in..... well, it does mark if you've posted in a specific thread - the envelope icon to the side of the thread title in the sub-forum list is marked with a small arrow - unfortunately it doesn't show you where your last post in that thread was (I've often thought that would be useful). Of course you've probably figured this out by now :p

lethalfang
September 6th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Absolutely he may :) And if, as he so eloquently said, he's too lazy and doesn't care what 'ppl" think of his spelling and grammar, well, I don't "care" to read his posts :)

On the subject of aging - interesting isn't it! I don't imagine using a transporter would be a great way to stay young - even without bringing this whole molecular vs quantum thing into it. I would think that by recreating yourself as an earlier version you'd lose all the changes since the last scan - including memories! :S Not an appealing thought to me :o :p

ETA: Oh, Three PhD's, in another post somwhere you were saying that the forum didn't mark what threads you'd posted in..... well, it does mark if you've posted in a specific thread - the envelope icon to the side of the thread title in the sub-forum list is marked with a small arrow - unfortunately it doesn't show you where your last post in that thread was (I've often thought that would be useful). Of course you've probably figured this out by now :p

Absolutely. There is a difference between occational mispell and just intentionally being lazy. The former is about making mistakes. The latter is about attitude. I quit reading his posts as well.

puddlejumper747
September 6th, 2005, 05:36 PM
yes i am lazzy i dont care if ppl can read wat i typeNo offense to you, personally, here, but.... :S
But if you really don't care if people can read what you type....then why type at all? :confused:

I ask this in all seriousness. If you want to communicate something to other people, then it's absolutely necessary that they be able to understand you. So why on Earth would you try to make it so that people have trouble understanding what you type....unless you really don't want them to understand you in the first place?

Anyway, I'm sorry. But that just happens to be the way I feel about it....What do you think? :rolleyes: ....Subtle huh?

sparky
September 11th, 2005, 05:07 AM
I typed 'immortality' into Ovid (university associated science paper search engine) and about 75% of the results were about telomeres. Seems like at the moment they're the way to go... as long as you can avoid the cancer of course :).

In SG universe perhaps the best ways to achieve immortality would be 1) to reverse engineer sarcophagus technology and improve it. OR 2) genetically modify humans to have ancient genes (if you can find them) that allow long life spans.

aironoeus
September 11th, 2005, 05:43 PM
Reminding you all again (even though 2 other people have already stated it) regeneration doesn't neccesarily equal long life.
I admit it plays a very major factor if you wanted to create a long lived human but there are many many other factors.
Just to point it out, I already posted a comment about possibly using tellomeres to extend the life of the giant earthworm to export off world in post #38 - part two.
You can see that here.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=15319&page=1&pp=20

Also I'd like to point out that mice aren't the only organisms with the most genes in common with us.
Apparently the flatworm has just as many if not more. It has now been included as a model for researching human genes. It can regenerate like crazy. I posted what I thought was a very interesting way to use this research to have an episode on the SG1 show about a race of super-regenerative humans rivaling the G'oauld.
You can see that here as item #34.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=13571&page=3&pp=20

There is conflicting views about the tellomeres issue amongst scientist. Although the pioneer in this that was doing research on a basic worm species and extending their life showed good repeatable results, It conflicts with some data which has been shown to extend the life in fruit flies. What they did in the fruit flies was delay the time period of fertility using genes. The later in life the reproduction occured the longer the flies lived.
Well, lots of details to work out on that. They are still plugging away at it, but I think there are issues besides straight gene manipulation that we should look at there. Extending life is a very, very, big subject and requires multiple strategies.

Let's talk about that.

Let's talk about environmental toxins, lack of neccessary nutrients (proteins), lack of externally supplied antioxidants, exposure to UV light, missing amino acids (called essential amino acids) in the diet, missing externally supplied vitamins and plant created molecules that enhance the activity of those vitamins, DNa protecting plant derived flavonoids.


So what if we can make a human regenerate limbs like crazy. If UV light or free radicals are able to get into the cells mitochondria we are now screwed if the cell is unable to repair the damage quick enough.
Regeneration takes energy and if the cells are constantly kept busy trying to fend off free radicals and repairing breaks in DNA how can it send signals for a certain portion of the body to revert back to stem cells and then the other signals after that to re-differentiate into the new desired cell types.

Let's look at some examples that I hope are easy for everyone here to understand.
Let's look at some basic principles.

There is the basic aging theory that aging is caused by free radicals making there way into places and processes where they don't belong. It makes some sense, because the mitochondria in your cells that make the energy for your cells are constantly spitting out 1 to 2 % random free radicals as a byproduct of burning the amino acids and glucose and such that gives you energy.
How does it handle it. With vitamin C and Vitamins E and the most important R-ALPHA LIPOIC ACID.
R alpha-lipoic acid recycles the vitmains C & E. The mitochondria keep little packets of R-ALA close by. But it doesn't last forever, and it has to be replinished in some manner eventually. ALA is in plant and animals to a small extent and is used all throughout the animal kingdown. So you do get it from your diet a little but it is sulfur based. So what if you are missing sulfur in the environment, how will your body be able to manufacture it?
What if you are missing adequate taurine, cysteine, and methionine which have sulfur, and how will you make the anitoxidant glutathione which is also backup for vitamin C?

How about the fat soluable forms of vitamin C (ascorbyl palmitate) and B (benfotiamine). If you don't get those how will the vitamin C reach everywhere in your body. How will the vitamin B be able to protect ALL your cells from high glucose incidents causing glycation (glycation means a sugar has crosslinked to a protein creating a nonfunctioning structure) if it can't easily make its way through the fat portions of your body to reach all areas.

Did you know that if you eat sesame seeds your body will stop getting rid of the Gamma Tocopherol form of vitamin E which is the only from of vitamin E capable of quenching Nitrite radicals. It also causes you to retain more of all the other forms of vitamin E instead of pissing them out.

What about the miracle antioxidants that will scavenge free radicals and protect your DNA much more effectively than isolated vitamins in some of the plants we eat like Curcumin (from tumeric), resveratrol (from red grape skin), Chlorophyllin (water soluable form of chlorophyll), indole-3-carbinol (cruciferous vegetables), quertecin (common fruit flavonoid), sulforophane (brocolli sprouts), EGCG (from green tea), there are many more.

Some of these perform multiple actions, some shut down multiple factors that favor cancer. MULTIPLE FACTORS.
Some of these undoubtably have been purposely created by the plants so that you will continue to live/eat them and crap out their seeds and spread their seeds around inadvertantly.
Whenever you engineer a bridge you are supposed to over-engineer it. You make extra room for unforseen high loads. Don't you think nature has done the same? Apparently it has.....BUT.....human doesn't just mean an isolated life form. It means part of a whole which includes atleast plants as a minimum.

Minerals:
Too complicated to go into except to say that you can drink warm calcium and magnesium drinks that have just a touch of acid in them to keep from having bone loss. Magnesium plays a role in about 200 different metabolic reactions in the body.

Amino acids:
Carnosine is the #1 amino acid that you can associate with anti aging.
Here's a link I found quickly that demonstrates it but is somewhat detailed.
http://www.tasty-nuggets.com/library/autism.carnosine.html

Acetyl-L-carnitine-arginate: This is a human modified form of L-carnitine. The 2 reasons I'm putting it here is so that you don't get it confused with Carnosine and also because this handy little human modification to make l-carnitine more effective has shown to grow NEW NEURITES IN THE BRAIN!

The subject of hormones is too controversial to go into here and maybe the only safe thing I could say about that, is that taking 7-keto-DHEA is safe and will prevent certain aspects of aging and maybe that the phyto-estrogens in SOY will indirectly guard against pesticides that have the same estrogen shapes on them from attaching to your cells and wreaking free radical havoc.

So what if we can make a super-regenerative human. Are you going to take care of this new super-regenerative human and feed it what it needs?

Or will it be a nasty looking, glycated, free radical infested, cancer producing, low collagen, dead spermed, artery clogged, enlarged prostrate, insulin resistant, bone losing, barely able to regrow anything unless it stands still and eats - human?

aironoeus
September 11th, 2005, 07:51 PM
By the way - about the EGCG in green tea.
EGCG strongly and directly inhibits telomerase, an enzyme (normally dormant from birth) that delivers immortal status to cancer cells (Naasani et al. 1998).

sparky
September 14th, 2005, 12:53 AM
Ok, what if we moved away (just for a second) from supply and demand issues... We've seen humans and advanced races both use nanites for various purposes in stargate. Maybe they can be used to prolong life?