Ori Stargate (Spoilers for Beachhead)

[Qasim]

Can somebody explain to me how the Ori Stargate was supposed to work?

[Stricken]

Sorry but their is already a thread on this

But anyway, the way i saw it wa that they were going to draw the power from the black hole that the "smaller" Stargate was dialed to to generate enough power to create an active wormhole capeable enough of sending ships from Galaxy to another in a matter of seconds, i always thought this was possible

[Qasim]

Sorry but their is already a thread on thisI specifically mean the supergate

[_Owen_]

I would explain but I don't have any idea what you are talking about because I haven't seen season nine. Sorry.

Owen Macri

[Esquin]

Just like a regular stargate would, it recieves the wormhole from the Ori gate in their galexy. Opens and is powered by the black hole in there galexy and the one in ours. It probably isnt capable of dialing out though.

[Qasim]

How is the power transferred from the black hole to the gate?

[nimitz]

Im going to say radiation but i havent seen the eposide yet, so its all a guess but we know stargates can use lots of different types of energy. So it might just use the power of the vaccum.

[_Owen_]

It would be neat if they found a way to harness the gravitational energy of the black hole. (noting that I still have not seen the episode)

Owen Macri

[khd]

Here how I think the Supergate was suppose to work:
The gate in the Ori galaxy was near a blackhole. The prior may have used some sort of time dialation device to counter-act the effects of the blackhole like the replicators did in "New Order." The force feild around the gate and eventually the planet was not intended to keep people out, but instead to keep the gravitational effects in like the event horizon on the stargate. Basicly the prior and SG-1 were standing between the puddle and the wormhole of the supergate. Since gravity waves can go both was through a wormhole, the planet was sucked into the event horizon of the stargate(the regular one) where it was dematerialized, but since it was an incoming wormhole, it didn't go anywhere. Once the planet was sucked in, the stargate collapsed into itself, at which point there was nothing to contain the wormhole and it expanded to fill the force feild. Basicly, with no gate on the Milky Way end, the blackhole translated through the open wormhole and formed another singularity. The supergate was to serve the same purpose the stargate does, and contain the event horizon, which would contain the gravitational effects of the black hole. Simply put, the stargate would collapsed in on itself and the wormhole would then expand to fill the supergate. But with the supergate incomplete, kind of like it had a crack in, it couldn't handle the wormhole and blew apart. The wormhole, having nothing to connect to, dissengaged.

There are however a few problems with this theory.
1. In "Matter of Time" the SG team dialed in while near a blackhole, but the gate shutdown shortly after they sent their IDC through. But in "Beachhead", under apparently the same circumstances, the gate didn't shut off. It stand to reason the gravity waves can translate through an incoming or outgoing wormhole and it's possible that a blackhole could power a gate either way, but it is a simple continuity issue. It didn't happen in "Matter of Time" and did happen in "Beachhead".
2. If the wormhole that formed in the supergate was an incoming wormhole, which it would have to be for the Ori to send ships through it, how did Vala get suck back through it. We know that radio and gravity waves can be translate both ways through a wormhole, but can a ring transmission beam. Maybe because it was a larger wormhole, larger particles can be tranmitted both ways. Or was Vala's energy signiture sucked into the event horizon of the supergate where it was deconstructed and she cesed to exist.(Hopefully not the latter)

[_Owen_]

I didn't read all of your post, because I don't want to know any spoilers which I don't already. So is it possible that the Ori gate has a device which converts the black hole gravity into useable energy. That would be helpful.

Owen Macri

[Col. Newman]

There are however a few problems with this theory.
1. In "Matter of Time" the SG team dialed in while near a blackhole, but the gate shutdown shortly after they sent their IDC through. But in "Beachhead", under apparently the same circumstances, the gate didn't shut off. It stand to reason the gravity waves can translate through an incoming or outgoing wormhole and it's possible that a blackhole could power a gate either way, but it is a simple continuity issue. It didn't happen in "Matter of Time" and did happen in "Beachhead".
That is why they would have to use a Time Dilation device like Owen suggested

[lethalfang]

They might've turned the planet into a black hole, but know this: it still has the same mass as the planet. Therefore, it also has exactly the same amount of gravity as the planet.

[nimitz]

i dont think a stargate can use gravitaional energy because then we would have no need for using electricity to power the gate,just use gravity.

[Three PhDs]

Here how I think the Supergate was suppose to work:
The gate in the Ori galaxy was near a blackhole. The prior may have used some sort of time dialation device to counter-act the effects of the blackhole like the replicators did in "New Order."Dilate time all you like, gravity doesn't care.


The force feild around the gate and eventually the planet was not intended to keep people out, but instead to keep the gravitational effects in like the event horizon on the stargate.Gravitational effects are a product of the warping of spacetime. I don't see how any shiled could protect from them.


Basicly the prior and SG-1 were standing between the puddle and the wormhole of the supergate.What?


Since gravity waves can go both was through a wormhole, the planet was sucked into the event horizon of the stargate(the regular one) where it was dematerialized, but since it was an incoming wormhole, it didn't go anywhere. Once the planet was sucked in, the stargate collapsed into itself at which point there was nothing to contain the wormhole and it expanded to fill the force feild.Without the gate to sustain the wormhole it collapses, not expands. See Redemption for that. Common sense tells you that anyway, it's an artificially sustained construct.


Basicly, with no gate on the Milky Way end, the blackhole translated through the open wormhole and formed another singularity.Why would a black hole form another black hole?

The supergate was to serve the same purpose the stargate does, and contain the event horizonAn event horizon is not a real thing, it's an imaginary region of space.


which would contain the gravitational effects of the black hole.No it wouldn't, it's just a region of space. The gravitational effects of any object are not contained by anything.


Simply put, the stargate would collapsed in on itself and the wormhole would then expand to fill the supergate. But with the supergate incomplete, kind of like it had a crack in, it couldn't handle the wormhole and blew apart. The wormhole, having nothing to connect to, dissengaged.So if it disengaged because it didn't have anything to connect to, why do you propose earlier in your post that a wormhole with nothing to connect to would expand to fill the force field?


There are however a few problems with this theory.You're telling me.


1. In "Matter of Time" the SG team dialed in while near a blackhole, but the gate shutdown shortly after they sent their IDC through. But in "Beachhead", under apparently the same circumstances, the gate didn't shut off. It stand to reason the gravity waves can translate through an incoming or outgoing wormhole and it's possible that a blackhole could power a gate either way, but it is a simple continuity issue. It didn't happen in "Matter of Time" and did happen in "Beachhead".It was 38 minutes in their time, and a few seconds in ours. It may simply have been that they just didn't get to the gate in time, and when the SGC redialled, the blackhole was sufficiently close enough to prevent them from disconnecting the gate.


2. If the wormhole that formed in the supergate was an incoming wormhole, which it would have to be for the Ori to send ships through it, how did Vala get suck back through it. We know that radio and gravity waves can be translate both ways through a wormhole, but can a ring transmission beam. Maybe because it was a larger wormhole, larger particles can be tranmitted both ways. Or was Vala's energy signiture sucked into the event horizon of the supergate where it was deconstructed and she cesed to exist.(Hopefully not the latter)Much as I don't like the idea of sending the amount of energy associated with matter/energy transportation through the gate, I can only assume that since it was EM energy then it could go both ways.

[eta539]

This is the way that I understand it:

Black Holes:
The effect of gravity of one object on another is dependent on the masses of the two objects and the distance from their centers. So the denser an object the higher the gravitaional pull. Normally black holes form when a star burn out, and it's own gravity compresses it into a smaller and smaller space until it has such high gravity that it pulls in everything around it getting denser and thus pulling in more matter. The Ori were using a planet as the initial singularity forming object which, aside from the dificulties in compressing a planet which i guess wouldn't be hard for the Ori to figure out, would be possible, it would just have to be compressed much more than would a sun.

Wormholes:
If wormholes actually exist in nature, and I believe they do just not very often, they are formed when the singularities from two black holes somehow find each other in sub-space and merge thus forming, at least for a short time, a stable pathway between two points in space. These wormhole are not very stable however and are very short lived. The stargates work by highly energizing the naquadah, which artificially increases its gravity, and giving the singularity a stable place to form. Each gate forms its own singularity, and the two merge somewhere in between in subspace, leaving a wormhole that is stable for 38 minutes under normal conditions.

Supergates:
The Supergate would work exactly like the stargate, by highly energizing the gate, then forming the singularity. They just used a black hole to form the singularity, then used that supergate to connect to the regular gate on the Jaffa planet forming a stable wormhole just like the ones our favorite USAF people have been using for 8 years. The two gates would not have to be the same size unless you wanted to bring something through that was the size of the bigger one. Then using the shield they collapsed the Jaffa planet to form the singularity. While that was happening, they sent the objects through to form the supergate on this side, timing it so that the supergate woulod finish assembly almost exactly when the singularity was about to form. Were it not for Vala interrupting the supergate with a weak spot, this would have formed a stable wormhole that could last indefinitely and have access large enough to transmit an entire battleship.

If you notice any major errors, please correct me.

[AndyStargateUK]

The only plot problem with Beachhead is that how did the Prior get through the Supergate at the other end? Or did he pop through the normal gate before they created a black hole in the ori galaxy and created the supergate.

Also does this mean that an Ori battleship could have been destroyed at the other end, if they wanted to get through as fast as possible it could have meant that the Ori battleship had praticlly passed through the supergate horizon (just a bit left though to go through) waiting for some sort of signal to push all the way through and be in the MW straight away.

[chriswin8]

Its Magic :)

[eta539]

The only plot problem with Beachhead is that how did the Prior get through the Supergate at the other end? Or did he pop through the normal gate before they created a black hole in the ori galaxy and created the supergate.

Also does this mean that an Ori battleship could have been destroyed at the other end, if they wanted to get through as fast as possible it could have meant that the Ori battleship had praticlly passed through the supergate horizon (just a bit left though to go through) waiting for some sort of signal to push all the way through and be in the MW straight away.
Maybe they have something like a puddle jumper that backed right up to the supergate forming an airtight seal against the event horizon, then he simply walked through it that way.

As for the Ori ship being destroyed, i guess it's possible, but we'll probably never know.

[Sauron18]

I've always had a bit of a problem understanding the concept completely.

Not because I didn't get it, but because there are a number of things that they don't explain.

Ok, this is what I get from the episode:

Prior comes, creates a shield around planet to isolate it (wormhole possible then), uses energy from various sources, PLanet collapses and makes supergate.

But.. what about the other side? THe Ori side. How are they gonna build their supergate, what are tehy supposed to use if they are using a normal black hole? WTH is going on over there?


So this is what I imagine as a solution to the unexplained:

On the other side, the Ori have a normal stargate, dialed to a Milky W World, they send the Prior and the they send the stargate into a sun, which makes it collapse and make a black whole, with a wormhole directed to the planet. They have a supergate on their side to catch it and so its now an Supergate in the Ori Galaxy and the small energy sucker in ours. Then the whole thing happens and a Supergate assimilates the dialed wormhole, then they have towo supergates. (They send the segments having calculated the right place)

[eta539]

I think the easiest explanation of how they built the supergate on the Ori end, is that they did it the same way they did on this end. Send the Prior through a normal gate, then collapse the planet he left using the same shield technology they used on this end, with the completed supergate already waiting to pick up the black hole. Plus it would be even easier on their end, because they wouldn't have to wait for us to attack to build the shield up completely.

[Sauron18]

I think the easiest explanation of how they built the supergate on the Ori end, is that they did it the same way they did on this end. Send the Prior through a normal gate, then collapse the planet he left using the same shield technology they used on this end, with the completed supergate already waiting to pick up the black hole. Plus it would be even easier on their end, because they wouldn't have to wait for us to attack to build the shield up completely.


Similar to what I thought, though using a different kind of black hole

[AndyStargateUK]

Maybe they have something like a puddle jumper that backed right up to the supergate forming an airtight seal against the event horizon, then he simply walked through it that way.

As for the Ori ship being destroyed, i guess it's possible, but we'll probably never know.

That is one possibility or like others have said it could be that they did a similar process on the other end, though this brings the question of why isn't the gravity of the blackhole having any effect on the wormhole in the MK, even at the MK end when the planet collapsed there didn't seem to much much of an effect when it happend.

As for the Ori ship we may never know but I'm certain if one was ready to go into the supergate it was destoyed by either being most of the way through the horizon at the ori end or near the supergate.

This brings up another question, sure a gravity well must now exsist within the Ori galaxy, the super gate should still be dialed into the blackhole in the Milky Way galaxy which should have devestating consequences for the Ori galaxy or at least the solar system and surround areas in that part of the Ori galaxy , and the effects of the black hole should expand (and so should the time dilation field) as time passes as it is highly unlikely the Ori would posses the power to make the supergate wormhole 'jump' to another gate using a pulse of energy.

[eta539]

That's a good point, I hadn't even thought of that.

[AndyStargateUK]

That's a good point, I hadn't even thought of that.

Considering the damage that could have been done if the Stargate on Earth hadn't been able to disconnect from the blackhole then a supergate 400m across will have massive effects on that part of the ori galaxy. Will be interesting to see if there is any follow up.