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AMCDeathKnight
August 19th, 2005, 03:00 AM
I was just wondering whether it is possible to beam through a stargate?
It would be neat if possible they could open up heaps of new areas, beam past shields and beam large vehicles through the gate. hmm just something I have been thinking about.

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 08:53 AM
I was just wondering whether it is possible to beam through a stargate?
It would be neat if possible they could open up heaps of new areas, beam past shields and beam large vehicles through the gate. hmm just something I have been thinking about.
I'd say they could transport people/objects through the gate, just send the transport signal through the gate and program it to where you want to materialize

AsgardCarnage
August 19th, 2005, 09:23 AM
i hope the ori use that tactic it would be devistating!

captain keys
August 19th, 2005, 10:34 AM
yeah itd be cool if the priors did that

Varrok
August 19th, 2005, 11:12 AM
well since its possible to send signals trough the stargate, I think you'd have to send a signal to a materializer on the other side.. would be awesome.. it solves any problem the gate gives.

btw think about the hologram projection trough the gate.. so make that certainly possible

Hywel
August 19th, 2005, 11:50 AM
Come to think of it, it should be possible to beam through the iris - after all, the asgard beam can penetrate the SGC. So if the asgard beaming technology fell into the wrong hands, we wouldn't be safe.

Varrok
August 19th, 2005, 01:10 PM
hmm infact anubis had asgard beaming technology before, however remember that the gua'uld are (were) bound to the asgard treaty. y'know it'd be fun to steal ships and other stuff from people without knowing who did it ^^

Three PhDs
August 19th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Given that a wormhole is a gravitational construct and that to transmit the full info for a person in under a second would require masses of bandwidth and energy and knowing that energy distorts spacetime I'd say that any attempt to transmit via the stargate would pull the wormhole in on itself. You'd have a collapse.

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Given that a wormhole is a gravitational construct and that to transmit the full info for a person in under a second would require masses of bandwidth and energy and knowing that energy distorts spacetime I'd say that any attempt to transmit via the stargate would pull the wormhole in on itself. You'd have a collapse.
The asgard have sent a holographic transmission throught the gate with no side affects,

well since its possible to send signals trough the stargate, I think you'd have to send a signal to a materializer on the other side
The asgard have beamed SG1 to places with no materializer, so i think its just a case of the asgard sensors calculating/pin-pointing where to re-materialize the person/object

Three PhDs
August 19th, 2005, 05:43 PM
The asgard have sent a holographic transmission throught the gate with no side affectsWhich is about as different from sending a person as a marble is from the planet earth.

Eoin
August 19th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Which is about as different from sending a person as a marble is from the planet earth.
OK its a SHOW not real life. :rolleyes:
A SHOWWWWWW!!!

Three PhDs
August 20th, 2005, 05:41 AM
OK its a SHOW not real life. :rolleyes:
A SHOWWWWWW!!!Earth to eoin. We know. Problem is, people like you are simply guessing, and worse than that there are hundreds of you all running around the forum like headless chickens all guessing this and that, and even worse than that, you've all got a tendency to mix up what little understanding of real science that you have and use it completely out of context.

Eoin
August 20th, 2005, 06:41 AM
Earth to eoin. We know. Problem is, people like you are simply guessing, and worse than that there are hundreds of you all running around the forum like headless chickens all guessing this and that, and even worse than that, you've all got a tendency to mix up what little understanding of real science that you have and use it completely out of context.
I think allot of people would take offense to that post, people have the right to their opinions and if they think they know something that is worth posting then they post it, even if it is wrong, why? because they enjoy stargate as much as any of us here and they deserve to be treated with respect. its ok to tell someone their wrong, but to tell someone their headless chickens all guessing its completly wrong.

Three PhDs
August 20th, 2005, 07:08 AM
You're right, that was a little harsh. It's how reading some threads makes me feel though.

Gargen
August 20th, 2005, 09:48 AM
Given that a wormhole is a gravitational construct and that to transmit the full info for a person in under a second would require masses of bandwidth and energy and knowing that energy distorts spacetime I'd say that any attempt to transmit via the stargate would pull the wormhole in on itself. You'd have a collapse.

your talking about a whole rip into subspace not a cable modem i doubt you have to worry about bandwidth

cozzerob
August 20th, 2005, 10:48 AM
Given that a wormhole is a gravitational construct and that to transmit the full info for a person in under a second would require masses of bandwidth and energy and knowing that energy distorts spacetime I'd say that any attempt to transmit via the stargate would pull the wormhole in on itself. You'd have a collapse.

You know, I almost thought that you were talking about if you transported the stargate myself. My bad... Anyway, i would say it depends on what principle the tech works on. If, for example, you were sending a ring transportation 'matter' stream, then i don't see a problem, the gate would just transmit the energy through to the other side.

However, it is very difficult to know if this would work with asgard transporters, as we know very little about them (apart from that they are much more useful, but less snazzy than the ring transporters).

The main problem i see is directing your transported 'thing' to destination. However, i guess it is slightly possible that the asgard might have developed the tech to tell what is on the other end. Maybe we could - would radar be transmitted back to us through the stargate?

The subtle point i'm trying to make is that the stargate does transport energy, ie, staff blasts or 'matter' streams (which are actually transmissions of energy, not matter). So there is maybe possible the slightest chance that it could work. But it depends on the tech. I don't know, but highly doubt that ring transporter mattter streams could penetrate the iris. Asgard tech i'm not so sure about. It really depends on if they can pin point locations through the stargate and if their method of teleportetion through matter works through the iris (which is quite possible if it's based on a tollen-like design).

I don't think that sending this would cause a collapse. +i understand what you are saying about bandwidth, but the gate would just be doing the same itself, it just doesn't have to de-materialise the person/object/item first. The bandwidth problem only arises if you are trying to transport very large thing through, ie, a mothership.

This is based on my belief that the 38-min rule exists because that is the max storage space for energy patterns that the stargate has (not an unreasonable theory, wouldn't you agree)? In addition, the 38 min rule seems to be 38 mins no matter what you are putting through the stargate. The gate will cope. Therefore one could assume that if you made a really, really long cylinder of something dense, say lead for instance, the circumference of which is just small enough to fit through the gate, and the length just long enough to last for you pushing it through for 38 mins - just before the gate closes you finish pushing it through - the gate will have enough storage capacity and bandwidth to deal with it.

this obviously is alot of material to transport, but the gate must be able to do so as part of its safety measures, so it is a relativly short period of time. Now this is all well and good until you decide to send something much larger (in mass, and therefore bandwidth requirement, and mem requirement) than the gate was designed to accept. In this cast you could only get (at best) a partial transmission. So, if you ever want to get rid of a black hole, send it through a stargate and it will take pound of it... weight watchers, looking out for your health...

This does not mean a collapse will occur, in fact, i don't see any reason for one to occur. Please would you be kind enough to explain why you do.

What it does mean is that we have solved the gate cavalry problem. Transport your tanks through the gate - a few tanks is not going to exceed you download limit.

If you have any comments, questions, or nitpicks on this rediculously long post (it's becoming a bad habit, like reacting to certain doom a certain way - poor rodney...) please fire away.

Gargen
August 20th, 2005, 10:57 AM
yea if it can transport energy of a black hole then there should be no problem transporting a simple data stream

Three PhDs
August 21st, 2005, 06:36 AM
your talking about a whole rip into subspace not a cable modem i doubt you have to worry about bandwidthYah, let's just send a mass of energy through just like that and hope it doesn't cause a collapse. Meh, not gonna bother going into it. I'm tired, it's Sunday and I have three episodes to catch up on.

cozzerob
August 21st, 2005, 07:40 AM
Oh - please do explain. I just don't see the problem personally. the stargate is designed to send matter and energy. a matter stream from a teleporter counts as energy. therefore, the stargate should transport you through without problems. At least, it should send a ring transporter matterstream through to the other side. An asgard stream would have to be modified to send through the gate, not past it. But assuming you have a set of rings on the other side, i don't see why you souldn't transmit through the gate.

Three PhDs
August 21st, 2005, 09:21 AM
Oh - please do explain. I just don't see the problem personally. the stargate is designed to send matter and energy. a matter stream from a teleporter counts as energy. therefore, the stargate should transport you through without problems. At least, it should send a ring transporter matterstream through to the other side. An asgard stream would have to be modified to send through the gate, not past it. But assuming you have a set of rings on the other side, i don't see why you souldn't transmit through the gate.The stargate either manipulates a microscopic pre-existing wormhole and uses that, or it creates its own wormhole. I'd favour the former, since it's more efficient. Either way, the wormhole is a gravitional construct which, owing to the nature of spacetime, is going to be unstable as it is. Sending people and objects through you are doing what it was intended to do. It's a given then that the gate will be set to cope with the stresses associated with sending matter and objects through. What's probably not written into its design was sending astronomical amounts of energy through in a very short time.

Think of it thus: You can quite easily consume your own body weight in food and drink, given enough time. However if you had to do it one sitting, you'd die. We've already seen on the show anyway how some weapons fire can destablise a wormhole, never mind the energy of a person's body mass.

cozzerob
August 21st, 2005, 09:45 AM
ok - we have seen some weapons de-stabilize the wormhole, but if i remember correctly, that made the workhole jump to another gate, not collapse the wormhole. If you have other examples of weapons fire destabilising the wormhole, then please do tell.

However, the gate is designed to de-mat all objects passing through the event horizon, then send the object as a single, discreet unit. There is no extra strain (at least not in sending ppl anyway). when it comes to larger objects, ie, sending a tank or mothership through, matters could be different. I would guess that a tank would probably have no extra strain, but trying to send the hat'ak might.

However, the point remains that the stargate is designed to send discreet units, and i'm sure that if you ground up a hat'ak you would have enough time to send it through in the allotted 38 mins. So the gate shouldn'd have any extra problems as it was designed to be able to transmit (in one single transmission if necessary) all the matter that entered it's event horizon in 38 mins. Because this requires alot of 'bandwidth' and memory, the time for keeping a wormhole activated was limited to 38-mins by the ancients who designed the gates. Any more and the gate migh have to have the bandwidth capable of coping with black holed being pushed through, etc. The point is that the gate was designed to take into account every concievable situation, and while it is not surprising that they didn't think about (or coulddn't do anything about) a blackhole at the other end keeping the gate open, they would have forseen ppl sending through long transmissions, ie, ppl holding hands as they go through the stargate.

If you have any more comments on this idea then please don't hesitate to answer. Also, i realise that i might not have explained this very well, but i hate typing for long periods of time, so if you don't get something, or believe it's crappily explained, just point it out and i will rephrase it. Take care, cozzerob.

nayo'nak
August 21st, 2005, 10:12 AM
awsom idea and i should work remember the device on dakara that you think that is less than a few tanks

you could send a malp and ues it to direct the reintergration of tanks /302s

NoDot
August 21st, 2005, 01:40 PM
you could send a malp and ues it to direct the reintergration of tanks /302sLOL! Just think of the possibilities!

Gargen
August 21st, 2005, 02:51 PM
Yah, let's just send a mass of energy through just like that and hope it doesn't cause a collapse. Meh, not gonna bother going into it. I'm tired, it's Sunday and I have three episodes to catch up on.
it wouldnt be even a fraction of the energy of a black hole so it would handle it i mean the get can send massive blasts of energy from staff weopons and death gliders, and that time sokar tried to take out the iris(seems i get into alot of scientific disagreements with you lol)

Three PhDs
August 21st, 2005, 04:14 PM
We only have disagreements on real science vs show science.

Gargen
August 21st, 2005, 04:33 PM
well the whole physics behind what a stargate generated wormhole could support when it comes to this there is no real science because no one has ever generated a wormhole and measured how long it can stay open for under what constriants

Col. Newman
August 21st, 2005, 06:54 PM
Given that a wormhole is a gravitational construct and that to transmit the full info for a person in under a second would require masses of bandwidth and energy and knowing that energy distorts spacetime I'd say that any attempt to transmit via the stargate would pull the wormhole in on itself. You'd have a collapse.ummm how do you think the Stargate works magic? It converts matter to energy and then back again just like Asgard Transproters do

_Owen_
August 23rd, 2005, 10:19 AM
I would have to say, it is possible. The beaming process happens in simple steps:

1. Person is scanned at location A
2. Person is dematerialized at location A
3. Persons' energy is stored inside a buffer at location B
4: Person is rematerialized at location C using the information that was scanned in step one, as a "template."

If you want to beam through a Stargate, Location A is infront of the gate, location B is further away from the gate, and location C is on the planet to which the Stargate is connected. Normally the device wouldn't have that kind of range, however the wormhole will transmit the information and energy required to rematerialize the person.

Owen Macri